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RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 22:58
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

The other night was the last straw for me, watching him play in the first leg against stuttgart. literally every single time he got the ball he just wanted to come onto his left foot, cut inside cut inside inside.

ive never seen such a one footed player be called a genius so much. why he gets so much media praise when he is quote obviously so one footed is beyond me. just watch a rerun of the other nights match and youl see what i mean. the reason he gets away with it is because his left foot is so good and hes so quick and nimble so even when he does cut inside and can still get past a player.

yes i think hes a great player but he cant be put in the same bracket as ronaldo and kaka until he learns to go the other way once in a while. its obvious all you need to do is show him onto his right foot and he becomes innefective. new maradonna? i dont think so- further update just to put something straight- id like to take back my kaka comment as it was a little OTT which i have conceded in this thread (somewhere)

addition to OP after the second leg of Stuttgart game (which i feel gives a better jist of what im trying to say) :


Do I still maintain what I said in my OP? Of course I do, if anything I think last night re-enforced my OP to some extent. We didn’t see him use his right at all last night did we? Look at messis first goal last night- it infuriated me. He was literally allowed to do EXACTLY what I KNEW he was going to do he was just itching to cut inside and get it onto his left and what’s more unbelievable is that the Stuttgart defenders LET him. I mean didn’t Gross tell his players before the game ‘whatever you do DO NOT let messi cut onto his left foot without doubling up on him’

It was a great goal yes and im not knocking messi for it (because as ive said many times in this thread I think he’s a GREAT, world class player) but he virtually went from one side of the pitch to the other and knocked it in with his left.

I think Gross was very naοve last night. I was looking forward to watching a tight game but gross allowed messi time and space and not only that but most fatally of all he allowed messi to come inside as much as he wanted onto his left without closing him down. If you show messi onto his right-and hes good enough to get past you on that side then I hold my hands up and say yep you are the best player in the world lionel. In fact you ARE the new maradonna. I have never seen that happen until now, yes I know hes scored with his right a few times, most recently against Valencia but it’s the great goals he scores that im on about- they all inevitably come from him cutting in cutting in cutting in with his left and then shooting with his left. Just like the valenica goal at the weekend- you knew what he was going to do when he shaped up with that henry style curler. When has he ever scored a goal when hes taken a player on-on the outside?
I
And what about his second goal last night? Again cutting inside onto his LEFT getting his shot away. Perfect execution yes, but why is he so obsessed with cutting in? I know it sounds crazy, but I hope you understand the point im trying to get at here- EVERYTIME his first action is that predictable motion onto his left.

Towards the end of the game do you remember he was nearly put clean through ,but instead of going pushing to ball FORWARD and getting a shot in with his right he tried to sort of check back onto his left whilst simultaneously trying to nutmeg the last defender. It deflected off the defenders legs and away. Now I ask why did he need to do that? Why not be bold and push the ball in front of you and take a chance with your right?

So messi scored a hatrick v Valencia , scored two last night, yes hes been on great form- so all of a sudden that makes me have egg on my face? Its this kind of jumping on the bandwagon I dislike, it’s the same with rooney right now- its just rooney this rooney that, rooneys world class, rooneys amazing blah blah. By the way the same point about messi applies to rooney too I hate it when rooney just cuts inside onto his right all the time-but rooneys a different sort of player and has so much more to his game. Why are football fans so fickle? I can remember not so long ago the same adulation was directed towards torres last season. One minute its torres is the best player in the world, the next its rooney, the next its messi. Of course theyre all great great players but its all the OTT on the spot reactions I just don’t understand. Players hit form , players dip in form its part and parcel of being a great player.

If messi was so good, what did he do vs inter away this year? You know that dire 0-0 draw? Mourinho snuffed him out- showed him onto his right. This is what I mean- when you get astute managers who have good enough defenders to work messi out (just like hiddink last season) you remember? I ask again do you remember? What did messi do over 180 mins v hiddinks chelski? What did he do against an inept utd attacking/dribbling wise in last seasons final? It was surprising that he had little influence cos the scum were awful that night and apart from his header he offered little else. Whiskey nose executed his game plan against him well. There seems to be a recurring theme here- i.e against the teams with great tactically astute managers messi tends to go missing. I saw him vs germany in a friendly recently- what did he do? Lowe executed his game plan perfectly against him- again not allowing him time and space to skip past defenders on his left, just shaping up his defenders to show him on the outside.

Before I end this please don’t assume (like you all have done) that I don’t rate messi. Of course I do I think he’s phenomenal its just the cutting in without people mentioning it enough that does my head in, it always has always will its like a phobia I have in life. I have a feeling i will be somewhat vindicated come the end of this champions league season after messis flaws will be exposed in yet another big CL semi final which looks like being mourinhos inter. If i'm wrong i'll hold my hands up.

watch this space

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 22:59
Messi is the best player in the world. FACT.

Kaka is not even in the same League.

TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
27-2-10, 23:00
:D

Same league as Kaka :D

-PRAETORIAN-
27-2-10, 23:00
Dam those one footed players hey !:rolleyes:

jonsonos
27-2-10, 23:00
New Maradonna? Na Maradonna was much more one footed...

stevieNnandoNpepe
27-2-10, 23:01
Messi is the best player in the world. FACT.

Kaka is not even in the same League.

This.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:01
Messi is the best player in the world. FACT.

Kaka is not even in the same League.

you're havin a laugh right?

Mike90
27-2-10, 23:03
The fact that he rely's on his left foot so much and is yet so effective with it is one of the things that makes him such a great player.

WindyShepherdHenderson
27-2-10, 23:04
you're havin a laugh right?

He was joking, they both play in La Liga.

caple
27-2-10, 23:05
If he was both footed it wouldn't be fair on everyone else.

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:06
you're havin a laugh right?

Not at all!

Messi career stats:


Club Season League Cup[nb 1] Europe[nb 2] Club World Cup Total
Apps Goals Assists Apps Goals Assists Apps Goals Assists Apps Goals Assists Apps Goals Assists
Barcelona 2004–05 7 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 - - - 9 1 0
2005–06 17 6 3 2 1 0 6 1 1 - - - 25 8 4
2006–07 26 14 2 4 2 1 6 1 0 0 0 0 36 17 3
2007–08 28 10 12 3 0 0 9 6 1 - - - 40 16 13
2008–09 31 23 11 8 6 2 12 9 5 - - - 51 38 18
2009–10 20 16 9 4 3 0 7 2 1 2 2 0 33 23 10
Career totals 129 70 37 22 12 3 41 19 8 2 2 0 194 103 48

Kaka:


Club Season Domestic
League Domestic
Cups Continental
Competitions1 Other
Tournaments2 Total
Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals Apps Goals
Sγo Paulo 2001 27 12 1 2 5 0 - - 33 14
2002 22 9 - - - - - - 22 9
2003 10 2 10 5 - - - - 20 7
Total 59 23 11 7 5 0 - - 75 30
Milan 2003–04 30 10 4 0 10 4 1 0 45 14
2004–05 36 7 1 0 13 2 1 0 51 9
2005–06 35 14 2 0 12 5 - - 49 19
2006–07 31 8 2 0 15 10 - - 48 18
2007–08 30 15 - - 9 3 2 1 41 19
2008–09 31 16 1 0 4 0 - - 36 16
Total 193 70 10 0 63 24 4 1 270 95
Real Madrid 2009–10 19 6 - - 6 1 - - 25 7
Total 19 6 - - 6 1 - - 25 7
Career Totals 267 99 21 7 73 25 4 1 370 132

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:06
He was joking, they both play in La Liga.

i dont think he was

Chris-Ninis
27-2-10, 23:06
Embarrassing. Truly.

gedzredz
27-2-10, 23:07
its obvious all you need to do is show him onto his right foot and he becomes innefective

Shhhhh.. this information could be worth millions to top coaches around Europe.:rolleyes:

WindyShepherdHenderson
27-2-10, 23:07
i dont think he was

Point
Missed
You
The

Rearrange these into one, easy-to-understand sentence.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:09
Not at all!

Messi career stats:



Kaka:

career stats dont tell the full picture. how about you drag up john dahl tommassons career stats, from his early days too? get my drift?

you're missing a very important point:

kaka achievements/performaces for brazil vs messi for Argentina.

Paulite
27-2-10, 23:09
:D

king-Carra
27-2-10, 23:09
Wtf?

Messi is the best player in the world, no if's but's or maybe's. If he cut his pubic hair on the pitch, he would still be the best.

Epic thread fail here.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:10
Point
Missed
You
The

Rearrange these into one, easy-to-understand sentence.

no you missed the point. you think he was trying to make a pun on words, when he wasnt. it was just a coincidence. if paul is truthful im sure he would back that up..

RedBaros
27-2-10, 23:11
Like willy push ups, one (foot) is all you need.

WindyShepherdHenderson
27-2-10, 23:11
You think he was trying to make a pun on words!

No I don't, I was the one making the pun!

Christ almighty, you're having an absolute shocker.

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:11
career stats dont tell the full picture. how about you drag up john dahl tommassons career stats, from his early days too? get my drift?

you're missing a very important point:

kaka achievements/performaces for brazil vs messi for Argentina.

OMG

I try I really try.

Messi is 10 times the player Kaka is and was.

Only Ronaldo comes close in world football.

Messi is an incredible incredible talent.

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:12
i think the award for the worst thread of the year just got interesting :)

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:12
No I don't, I was the one making the pun!

Christ almighty, you're having an absolute shocker.

well in that case i feel really sorry for you- its a very lame pun

Rieko
27-2-10, 23:12
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

The other night was the last straw for me, watching him play against stuttgart. literally every single time he got the ball he just wanted to come onto his left foot, cut inside cut inside inside.

ive never seen such a one footed player be called a genius so much. why he gets so much media praise when he is quote obviously so one footed is beyond me. just watch a rerun of the other nights match and youl see what i mean. the reason he gets away with it is because his left foot is so good and hes so quick and nimble so even when he does cut inside and can still get past a player.

yes i think hes a great player but he cant be put in the same bracket as ronaldo and kaka until he learns to go the other way once in a while. its obvious all you need to do is show him onto his right foot and he becomes innefective. new maradonna? i dont think so

Does my nut in too. He is undoubtebly on of the best players in the world but he is one dimensional. When your one dimension is so hard to defend against and effective its hardly a major criticsm, but I'm just not a fan of his style of play. Was never more apparent than the 2 legs against Chelsea last season. Chelsea just showed him inside and doubled sometimes trebeled up on him to snuff out the danger.

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:13
no you missed the point. you think he was trying to make a pun on words, when he wasnt. it was just a coincidence. if paul is truthful im sure he would back that up..

What?

No pun. :D

caspertheghost
27-2-10, 23:13
OMG

I try I really try.

Messi is 10 times the player Kaka has and was.

Only Ronaldo comes close in world football.

Messi is an incredible incredible talent.

http://stein.bioch.dundee.ac.uk/~charlie/layman/BrownBrickWall_tileable.jpg

there you are Paul.

Bang your head off that.

WindyShepherdHenderson
27-2-10, 23:15
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

September was the last straw for me, watching him play against Hull. Literally every single time he got the ball he just shot, shot, shot.

I've never seen such a goalscorer be called a genius so much. Why he gets so much media praise when he is quote obviously obsessed with scoring is beyond me. Just watch a rerun of the Hull match and you'll see what i mean. The reason he gets away with it is because his accuracy is so good and he's so quick and nimble, so even when he does shoot it can still get past the keeper.

Yes I think he's a great player but he can't be put in the same bracket as Harewood and Vennegoor of Hesselink until he learns to miss once in a while. It's obvious all you need to do is injure him and he becomes ineffective. New Ian Rush? I don't think so.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:15
OMG

I try I really try.

Messi is 10 times the player Kaka has and was.

Only Ronaldo comes close in world football.

Messi is an incredible incredible talent.

what? 10 times? and ronaldo only comes close? eh? i dont get it! ronaldo is an amazing amazing player to say he only comes close to messi is just ridiculous!

you know strange thing is because he used to play so close to home, whilst messi played in spain made the messi factor more mysterious.

i know hes former scum but for me ronaldo = potentially best player of the modern era (since maradonna)

josiewales
27-2-10, 23:15
It's outrageous

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:16
He's not in the same league ;)

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:17
what? 10 times? and ronaldo only comes close? eh? i dont get it! ronaldo is an amazing amazing player to say he only comes close to messi is just ridiculous!

you know strange thing is because he used to play so close to home, whilst messi played in spain made the messi factor more mysterious.

i know hes former scum but for me ronaldo = potentially best player of the modern era (since maradonna)

apart from this one footed stuff your spouting, can you back this up?

josiewales
27-2-10, 23:18
He's not in the same league ;)

Ah.
Another 'Pun on Words'
Like it ;)

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:18
Does my nut in too. He is undoubtebly on of the best players in the world but he is one dimensional. When your one dimension is so hard to defend against and effective its hardly a major criticsm, but I'm just not a fan of his style of play. Was never more apparent than the 2 legs against Chelsea last season. Chelsea just showed him inside and doubled sometimes trebeled up on him to snuff out the danger.

at last someone who gets what im talking about! yeah i was gonna mention the chelsea semi last year (particularly at stamford bridge) in my OP too.

did you see the stuttgart game? for such a great player it was embarassing how obvious it was that he was gonna cut it. it was a mirror image of the chelsea semi last year, in which he did nothing over 180 mins of football, apart from square it to iniesta

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:18
what? 10 times? and ronaldo only comes close? eh? i dont get it! ronaldo is an amazing amazing player to say he only comes close to messi is just ridiculous!

you know strange thing is because he used to play so close to home, whilst messi played in spain made the messi factor more mysterious.

i know hes former scum but for me ronaldo = potentially best player of the modern era (since maradonna)

I think Ronaldo is a great player.

Messi is better and more talented and I have always said that.

Messi will go down as the greatest player ever if he continues the way he has played the last 3 seasons. He is just incredible.

TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
27-2-10, 23:19
Why did Fowlers goal get disallowed? :confused:

FIOS
27-2-10, 23:20
He doesn't cut in enough for me.

At least he's always fit though.

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:20
Why did Fowlers goal get disallowed? :confused:

LOL :D

Did you see the airhorn thread?

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:21
apart from this one footed stuff your spouting, can you back this up?

well im not gonna take a cop out option and just copy and paste a whole loada stats from soccer.net or whatever, i really think that kinda thing means bog all-for example i could do it about kuyt at feyonoord and make him look like van basten.

just ronaldo in general i think hes just brilliant. theres nothing he cant do, two feet, cross, shoot, dribble, head, pass, pace. messi isnt as complete player

WindyShepherdHenderson
27-2-10, 23:22
messi isnt as complete player

But he's better.

-PRAETORIAN-
27-2-10, 23:23
What about Reina and all these ******* saves?!?!?!:mad:

I tell you what i've had it!!!!

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:23
well im not gonna take a cop out option and just copy and paste a whole loada stats from soccer.net or whatever, i really think that kinda thing means bog all-for example i could do it about kuyt at feyonoord and make him look like van basten.

just ronaldo in general i think hes just brilliant. theres nothing he cant do, two feet, cross, shoot, dribble, head, pass, pace. messi isnt as complete player

Okay the stats lied. It was a cop out to use them as they mean **** all. Sound.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:25
But he's better.

but he cant shoot, head or cross has well as ronaldo whereas ronaldo can dribble and finish as good as messi- but messis still better right?

could messi have scored that goal ronaldo did for manu away to porto?

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:25
well im not gonna take a cop out option and just copy and paste a whole loada stats from soccer.net or whatever, i really think that kinda thing means bog all-for example i could do it about kuyt at feyonoord and make him look like van basten.

just ronaldo in general i think hes just brilliant. theres nothing he cant do, two feet, cross, shoot, dribble, head, pass, pace. messi isnt as complete player

not really statistics are fact, your opinion means jack. i could say play mascherano up front he scored a brilliant goal the other day.

Navredman
27-2-10, 23:25
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

The other night was the last straw for me, watching him play against stuttgart. literally every single time he got the ball he just wanted to come onto his left foot, cut inside cut inside inside.

ive never seen such a one footed player be called a genius so much. why he gets so much media praise when he is quote obviously so one footed is beyond me. just watch a rerun of the other nights match and youl see what i mean. the reason he gets away with it is because his left foot is so good and hes so quick and nimble so even when he does cut inside and can still get past a player.

yes i think hes a great player but he cant be put in the same bracket as ronaldo and kaka until he learns to go the other way once in a while. its obvious all you need to do is show him onto his right foot and he becomes innefective. new maradonna? i dont think so


Shoot him why don't you :confused:

WindyShepherdHenderson
27-2-10, 23:25
not really statistics are fact, your opinion means jack. i could say play mascherano up front he scored a brilliant goal the other day.

Scott Parker is better than Messi as he's more complete.

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:25
how many goals has messi scored for barcelona?

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:26
Okay the stats lied. It was a cop out to use them as they mean **** all. Sound.

no im not saying they mean ** all but when you start bringing sao paulo, boca etc stats into it, it sort of ends up devaluing your stats

Gazza74
27-2-10, 23:26
Messi doesn't need to use his right foot much because what he does with his left is absolutely world class and amazing.

One of the best players running with the ball there has been. Just glides with it and never loses it keeping it under close control.

If he used his right foot more, they could just give the World Footballer of the year award to him for the next 10 years and have done with it.

king-Carra
27-2-10, 23:26
but he cant shoot, head or cross has well as ronaldo whereas ronaldo can dribble and finish as good as messi- but messis still better right?

could messi have scored that goal ronaldo did for manu away to porto?

No, but he could score a header in the champions league final when a certain Ronaldo couldn't do a thing. ;)

Navredman
27-2-10, 23:27
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

September was the last straw for me, watching him play against Hull. Literally every single time he got the ball he just shot, shot, shot.

I've never seen such a goalscorer be called a genius so much. Why he gets so much media praise when he is quote obviously obsessed with scoring is beyond me. Just watch a rerun of the Hull match and you'll see what i mean. The reason he gets away with it is because his accuracy is so good and he's so quick and nimble, so even when he does shoot it can still get past the keeper.

Yes I think he's a great player but he can't be put in the same bracket as Harewood and Vennegoor of Hesselink until he learns to miss once in a while. It's obvious all you need to do is injure him and he becomes ineffective. New Ian Rush? I don't think so.


:fishing how many did you catch :rolleyes:

Q8reds
27-2-10, 23:27
New Maradonna? Na Maradonna was much more one footed...

maradona was single-handed ;)

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:27
but he cant shoot, head or cross has well as ronaldo whereas ronaldo can dribble and finish as good as messi- but messis still better right?

could messi have scored that goal ronaldo did for manu away to porto?

He cannot shot head or cross?

LMAO

Look at his assists.

Look at this CL final goal v Man Utd.

Look at some of the beautiful goals he scores, works of art.

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:28
no im not saying they mean ** all but when you start bringing sao paulo, boca etc stats into it, it sort of ends up devaluing your stats

OK look at the stats from the last two seasons or even this.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:29
not really statistics are fact, your opinion means jack. i could say play mascherano up front he scored a brilliant goal the other day.

okay then. peter crouches minutes: goals ratio for england is better than owens and shearers. so crouch for england. FACT

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:30
okay then. peter crouches minutes: goals ratio for england is better than owens and shearers. so crouch for england. FACT

well thats true, crouch is good enough for england.

caple
27-2-10, 23:30
So Messi has found a way to get 38 goals and 18 assists in 51 games, but because he didn't score them all in completely different ways it doesn't count?

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:30
OK look at the stats from the last two seasons or even this.

kaka plays a more central role for madrid whilst messi plays more as an attacking three. this coupled with the fact that barcelona have been the best side in europe for the past two seasons, and miles better than the disjointed madrid might also have something to do with it no?

caple
27-2-10, 23:32
kaka plays a more central role for madrid whilst messi plays more as an attacking three. this coupled with the fact that barcelona have been the best side in europe for the past two seasons, and miles better than the disjointed madrid might also have something to do with it no?

The reason they are the best side in Europe is largely because they have Messi.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:32
well thats true, crouch is good enough for england.

so why doesnt capello start him then based on these FACTS

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:33
am i right in saying messi has 103 goals for barceona and all this at the age of 22 :eek:

awol
27-2-10, 23:33
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

September was the last straw for me, watching him play against Hull. Literally every single time he got the ball he just shot, shot, shot.

I've never seen such a goalscorer be called a genius so much. Why he gets so much media praise when he is quote obviously obsessed with scoring is beyond me. Just watch a rerun of the Hull match and you'll see what i mean. The reason he gets away with it is because his accuracy is so good and he's so quick and nimble, so even when he does shoot it can still get past the keeper.

Yes I think he's a great player but he can't be put in the same bracket as Harewood and Vennegoor of Hesselink until he learns to miss once in a while. It's obvious all you need to do is injure him and he becomes ineffective. New Ian Rush? I don't think so.

:D

yore just bitter coz you never got in there quick enough on Thursday or whenever it was :p

caple
27-2-10, 23:33
am i right in saying messi has 103 goals for barceona and all this at the age of 22 :eek:

Doesn't count.

Not enough headers.

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:33
so why doesnt capello start him then based on these FACTS

wayne rooney.

FIOS
27-2-10, 23:34
Messi is gash, the one footed ****

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:34
The reason they are the best side in Europe is largely because they have Messi.

I suppose the majestic xavi and iniesta just played minor parts in last seasons win then?

if you watch barcelona play you will see that its iniesta that makes that team tick not messi. what did messi do over 180 mins against chelsea? iniesta was magnificent.

as for the final, again yes messi scored but iniesta was fabulous. no more cliche style comments please

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:34
kaka plays a more central role for madrid whilst messi plays more as an attacking three. this coupled with the fact that barcelona have been the best side in europe for the past two seasons, and miles better than the disjointed madrid might also have something to do with it no?

:D

Disjointed madird?

Top of La Liga right now, until Barca win this current game, 2points behind Barca. Yes Kaka plays a more central role, but he still has not influenced many games for Madrid or even Milan the last two seasons. Last time Kaka was at his best was the season they beat us in Athens when he got voted European player of the year.

Oh and Messi has been fantastic tonight, once again, some of his runs have been amazing.

Gazza74
27-2-10, 23:35
Messi ****** all over Kaka currently.

A couple of years back they were very close and Kaka was probably above Messi but now there is no contest.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:35
wayne rooney.

but crouches goals:games ratio is miles better than rooneys. those are the FACTS.

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:37
I suppose the majestic xavi and iniesta just played minor parts in last seasons win then?

if you watch barcelona play you will see that its iniesta that makes that team tick not messi. what did messi do over 180 mins against chelsea? iniesta was magnificent.

as for the final, again yes messi scored but iniesta was fabulous. no more cliche style comments please

Both Iniesta and Xavi are incredible; however Messi is Barcelona's most important player.

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:37
I suppose the majestic xavi and iniesta just played minor parts in last seasons win then?

if you watch barcelona play you will see that its iniesta that makes that team tick not messi. what did messi do over 180 mins against chelsea? iniesta was magnificent.

as for the final, again yes messi scored but iniesta was fabulous. no more cliche style comments please

you keep mentioning the same games? what about the other games?

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:38
but crouches goals:games ratio is miles better than rooneys. those are the FACTS.
not quite the same scenario as 103 goals is it?

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:38
Both Iniesta and Xavi are incredible; however Messi is Barcelona's most important player.

Like i said last seasons champions league performances, contributions suggest entirely otherwise. re-watch the semi final and the final if you dont think so..

-Gola-
27-2-10, 23:39
hilarious thread :D

skrteltheturtle89
27-2-10, 23:39
this thread makes me :D

caple
27-2-10, 23:39
I suppose the majestic xavi and iniesta just played minor parts in last seasons win then?

if you watch barcelona play you will see that its iniesta that makes that team tick not messi. what did messi do over 180 mins against chelsea? iniesta was magnificent.

as for the final, again yes messi scored but iniesta was fabulous. no more cliche style comments please

See where I didn't say "completely"? i.e Not just Messi.

If Barca didn't have Messi last year they would not have won the Treble. 38 goals and 18 assists is an amazing record in a team that had so many outlets.

I'm guessing you're doing this for attention and you don't really think what you're saying though. It's quite stunning if you don't see what everyone else in the world can see.

king-Carra
27-2-10, 23:40
So to some up, The OP is arguing against pretty much everyone in the world of football about how good Messi is.

Kaka, Rooney etc I could understand. But Messi?

Jesus wept.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:40
you keep mentioning the same games? what about the other games?

those were the two most pivotal games? what about the other games- well do you remember the other games? if iniesta was fabulous in the games that we remember then i dont see why that would change in other games.

and yes i do remember the other games(well some). messi was fab v munich at camp nou, iniesta was awsome vs lyon in return leg

caple
27-2-10, 23:41
Like i said last seasons champions league performances, contributions suggest entirely otherwise. re-watch the semi final and the final if you dont think so..

Two games? Because Iniesta was better than Messi in two games, you claim that his contribution was bigger?

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:41
Like i said last seasons champions league performances, contributions suggest entirely otherwise. re-watch the semi final and the final if you dont think so..

Yes they were outstanding in those.

However watch the season as a whole, then you'll see what I mean.

**** Malaga equalised.

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:42
those were the two most pivotal games? what about the other games- well do you remember the other games? if iniesta was fabulous in the games that we remember then i dont see why that would change in other games.

and yes i do remember the other games(well some). messi was fab v munich at camp nou, iniesta was awsome vs lyon in return leg

your basing all your stuff on a couple of games though. you cant do that.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:43
So to some up, The OP is arguing against pretty much everyone in the world of football about how good Messi is.

Kaka, Rooney etc I could understand. But Messi?

Jesus wept.

what? i didnt say messi was ****. read my op i said messis a great player but it infuriates me the way he cuts inside onto his left foot aka ryan babel and nani with their right (or be it miles miles better) so much. surely a 'genuis' should be able to use his right foot too?

skrteltheturtle89
27-2-10, 23:43
please tell me that was his right foot :D

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:44
Messi scored

How dare he

Meeessssi Meeesssiii Meeessiiii

caple
27-2-10, 23:44
what? i didnt say messi was ****. read my op i said messis a great player but it infuriates me the way he cuts inside onto his left foot aka ryan babel (or be it miles miles better) so much. surely a 'genuis' should be able to use his right foot too?

Why does it matter what foot he is using?

He destroys teams on his own. How he does it is irrelevant.

Gazza74
27-2-10, 23:44
Messi is gash, the one footed ****

And Torres, only using his right foot all the time.

Why can't we have 2 footed superstars like Luke Chadwick and Sean Dundee playing football nowadays.

Wowbagger
27-2-10, 23:44
what move that was by Barca. :eek:

king-Carra
27-2-10, 23:44
please tell me that was his right foot :D

:D

Perfect timing it seems.

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:45
what? i didnt say messi was ****. read my op i said messis a great player but it infuriates me the way he cuts inside onto his left foot aka ryan babel and nani with their right (or be it miles miles better) so much. surely a 'genuis' should be able to use his right foot too?

no a genius is someone who is not as good with his right, or as good in the air but STILL manages to score 103 goals by the time he reaches the age 22.

king-Carra
27-2-10, 23:46
what? i didnt say messi was ****. read my op i said messis a great player but it infuriates me the way he cuts inside onto his left foot aka ryan babel and nani with their right (or be it miles miles better) so much. surely a 'genuis' should be able to use his right foot too?

Ridiculous argument given who we are talking about.

Gazza74
27-2-10, 23:47
what? i didnt say messi was ****. read my op i said messis a great player but it infuriates me the way he cuts inside onto his left foot aka ryan babel and nani with their right (or be it miles miles better) so much. surely a 'genuis' should be able to use his right foot too?

He's asked to play on the right and he cuts inside because he's left footed and also because when he does he terrorises defenders and creates and scores goals.

He isn't a winger in the conventional sense, but plays from that position out on the right.

He quite simply doesn't need to use his right foot because he's simply brilliant and world class with his left.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:47
Why does it matter what foot he is using?

He destroys teams on his own. How he does it is irrelevant.

thats my point he doesnt. a bit like fabregas when he comes up against the big boys he tends to go missing. chelsea totally snuffed him out last season, the showed him inside knew what he was going to do and nullified it.

messis a flat track bully. great player but flat track bully. we'll see what he does in the world cup

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:47
Messi has looked awesome tonight.

HeyMacaReina
27-2-10, 23:47
:D

Perfect timing it seems.

Messi is so good, he manages to browse the forums whilst he plays and reacts to their contents at will. ;)

Now that is the mark of a true genius.

:D

skrteltheturtle89
27-2-10, 23:48
thats my point he doesnt. a bit like fabregas when he comes up against the big boys he tends to go missing. chelsea totally snuffed him out last season, the showed him inside knew what he was going to do and nullified it.

messis a flat track bully. great player but flat track bully. we'll see what he does in the world cup

out of curiosity, how often do you watch him play?

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:49
i will post this again-

no a genius is someone who is not as good with his right, or as good in the air but STILL manages to score 103 goals by the time he reaches the age 22.

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:49
thats my point he doesnt. a bit like fabregas when he comes up against the big boys he tends to go missing. chelsea totally snuffed him out last season, the showed him inside knew what he was going to do and nullified it.

messis a flat track bully. great player but flat track bully. we'll see what he does in the world cup

That's why he scored a hattrick in the biggest game in Spain, i.e El grand classico, and he was only 19.

caple
27-2-10, 23:49
thats my point he doesnt. a bit like fabregas when he comes up against the big boys he tends to go missing. chelsea totally snuffed him out last season, the showed him inside knew what he was going to do and nullified it.

messis a flat track bully. great player but flat track bully. we'll see what he does in the world cup

You're actually arguing that Messi can't beat teams on his own?

You don't rate Ibrahimovic, do you?

skrteltheturtle89
27-2-10, 23:50
You're actually arguing that Messi can't beat teams on his own?

You don't rate Ibrahimovic, do you?

if he doesnt rate Messi, i doubt he rates anyone

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:51
out of curiosity, how often do you watch him play?

the truth? not much against the likes of lowly malaga etc but i always watch him play in the big games, eg madrid, champions league argentina etc, and he seems to get snuffed out because teams just show him inside and he is unable to adapt with his right foot

ever-red-e
27-2-10, 23:51
I agree with your post totally. You know how the saying goes I'm sure:

"You can't be a good goalscorer until you are a good goal-misser."

All it takes is a bit of humility - let everyone see your 'human side' once in a while. EVERYONE ELSE MISSES SO WHY CAN'T HE! :eek:


P.S. Please forgive my 'crimes against language' above - unlike certain footballers I actually make mistakes.......;)

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:51
if he doesnt rate Messi, i doubt he rates anyone

i think lucas is better than socarates:P

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:52
the truth? not much against the likes of lowly malaga etc but i always watch him play in the big games, eg madrid, champions league argentina etc, and he seems to get snuffed out because teams just show him inside and he is unable to adapt with his right foot

Ah you've shown yourself up then.

How often has Gerrard gone missing against the likes of Chelsea, United, Arsenal etc?

king-Carra
27-2-10, 23:53
Messi is so good, he manages to browse the forums whilst he plays and reacts to their contents at will. ;)

Now that is the mark of a true genius.

:D


All hail the I-Phone. :D

skrteltheturtle89
27-2-10, 23:53
the truth? not much against the likes of lowly malaga etc but i always watch him play in the big games, eg madrid, champions league argentina etc, and he seems to get snuffed out because teams just show him inside and he is unable to adapt with his right foot

i see. well i do. and i disagree. strongly.

and i dont think you can make any statement about Messi when you only watch him a handful of times a season

i assume you watched him become CL top scorer last season though right?

caple
27-2-10, 23:53
the truth? not much against the likes of lowly malaga etc but i always watch him play in the big games, eg madrid, champions league argentina etc, and he seems to get snuffed out because teams just show him inside and he is unable to adapt with his right foot

Okay, it's getting ridiculous.

Why do some people find it hard to grasp the fact that it is harder to play against better players?

Of course players aren't going to be as effective against the top teams in Europe as they are playing better players. There is no player in the world that will play just as well against better players than he will against worse ones. Welcome to common sense.

Gazza74
27-2-10, 23:54
the truth? not much against the likes of lowly malaga etc but i always watch him play in the big games, eg madrid, champions league argentina etc, and he seems to get snuffed out because teams just show him inside and he is unable to adapt with his right foot

No way can you say Messi hasn't performed in the big games, especially in the last 2 or 3 years.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:54
You're actually arguing that Messi can't beat teams on his own?

You don't rate Ibrahimovic, do you?

no im arguing for a player as good as messis supposed to be, he doesnt do it enough against the big boys. and im sorry but the performances back that up.

do i rate ibra? hehe, yes i do but like messi ive never seen him do it enough in the big games.

i DO rate messi you know, i just think he has a major weakness with his over reliance on his left foot which is exposed against the big boys

HeyMacaReina
27-2-10, 23:55
All hail the I-Phone. :D

:D

Snippes
27-2-10, 23:55
Does my nut in too. He is undoubtebly on of the best players in the world but he is one dimensional. When your one dimension is so hard to defend against and effective its hardly a major criticsm, but I'm just not a fan of his style of play. Was never more apparent than the 2 legs against Chelsea last season. Chelsea just showed him inside and doubled sometimes trebeled up on him to snuff out the danger.

So Messi is so one dimensional its hard to defend against him :D And this is a bad thing, how? :confused:

Someone please help because I am a bit at a loss on this one.

Even if we were to pretend that Messi is "one dimensional" for one second - he's not, but okay let's pretend - the fact that he is one footed, one dimensional, keeps cutting inside and is still the best player, practically the most impossible player in the world to stop and he does your nut in. How ridiculous, is that - LOL. I would think the fact that he can still beat any and all defenders in the world and forces teams like Chelsea to double, tripple team...that this makes him a genius, not annoying.

For the record, he is not one dimensional - totally ridiculous obtuse observation. Messi can beat you dribbling fast or slow, he can beat shooting from anywhere in the pitch...he can beat with his head a la the CL final last season. Just because he's not the most two footed players in the world that doesn't make him one dimensional. Quite the opposite, Messi is more dimensional than just about every other player in the world - you just can't see how many dimensions he has for some strange reason.

Is it just me or the OP a totally clueless putz? Never seen him here before but am reading some real belters outta him today :D

Liverpoolforme
27-2-10, 23:56
ronaldo didnt really score to many goals in the big games for united either. messi is only 22, not even his prime yet, ronaldo is 25. but then again as paul says he scored a hatrick in the El grand classico and scored in the the champions league final.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:56
No way can you say Messi hasn't performed in the big games, especially in the last 2 or 3 years.

ok so tell me the games where he has? he scored a great header against manu yes, but his performance wasnt great.

so what other big games then?

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:57
ok so tell me the games where he has? he scored a great header against manu yes, but his performance wasnt great.

so what other big games then?

:D

caple
27-2-10, 23:57
no im arguing for a player as good as messis supposed to be, he doesnt do it enough against the big boys. and im sorry but the performances back that up.

do i rate ibra? hehe, yes i do but like messi ive never seen him do it enough in the big games.

i DO rate messi you know, i just think he has a major weakness with his over reliance on his left foot which is exposed against the big boys

Every player plays worse against the big teams, especially attacking players as top defenders will make it harder for them to play.

Torres can do it actually.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:58
ronaldo didnt really score to many goals in the big games for united either. messi is only 22, not even his prime yet, ronaldo is 25. but then again as paul says he scored a hatrick in the El grand classico and scored in the the champions league final.

yes he did. hes scored against us a few times, he scored against roma away in the quarters, took arsenal apart in the semi, got utd through with his screamer vs porto, scored against chelsea in moscow etc etc , need i go on?

skrteltheturtle89
27-2-10, 23:58
ok so tell me the games where he has? he scored a great header against manu yes, but his performance wasnt great.

so what other big games then?

oh you've outdone yourself

el clasico for a start to answer your question.

king-Carra
27-2-10, 23:58
FFS LUCAS:mad:






















:fishing

Paullfc1976
27-2-10, 23:59
oh you've outdone yourself

el clasico for a start to answer your question.

I said this one.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
27-2-10, 23:59
oh you've outdone yourself

el clasico for a start to answer your question.

which one? im not doubting he did, but what wasnt that the game where they hammered them?

Wowbagger
27-2-10, 23:59
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

Surely a genius should be able to score more goals.

caple
27-2-10, 23:59
hes scored against us a few times

I remember one, and it was a penalty.

skrteltheturtle89
28-2-10, 00:00
I said this one.

he's done it more than once ;)

but fine. the winner against estudiantes? to make barca world champions? or vs united to be european champions? etc etc

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:00
yes he did. hes scored against us a few times, he scored against roma away in the quarters, took arsenal apart in the semi, got utd through with his screamer vs porto, scored against chelsea in moscow etc etc , need i go on?

oh so were counting roma and porto as big games? messi was top scorer in the chmpions league last season so muct have scored plenty of goals against the likes of those teams. any way he didt score these when he was 22 though.

Paullfc1976
28-2-10, 00:00
which one? im not doubting he did, but what wasnt that the game where they hammered them?

It ended 3-3 about 3 seasons ago at the Nou Camp.

KeemI
28-2-10, 00:00
If a manager can tell his defenders to double or triple-up on you when you have the ball,then he's indirectly saying you're 3 times as effective as a your team mates.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:01
I remember one, and it was a penalty.

er...a header from a corner at OT too

stevieNnandoNpepe
28-2-10, 00:01
yes he did. hes scored against us a few times, he scored against roma away in the quarters, took arsenal apart in the semi, got utd through with his screamer vs porto, scored against chelsea in moscow etc etc , need i go on?

Twice. A header + a pen.

Messi scored:D:scarf
YNWA

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:01
It ended 3-3 about 3 seasons ago at the Nou Camp.

oh yes that one. fair do's:D

caple
28-2-10, 00:02
Did you see that average-at-best World Cup final performance where he only scored headers?

Italy didn't let him do it the next time he was in one. Not a genius.

king-Carra
28-2-10, 00:02
When someone says something equally as ludicrous as this to me in person, I smack them.

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:03
er...a header from a corner at OT too

which reina flapped at, kuyt would have scored it.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:03
Ah you've shown yourself up then.

How often has Gerrard gone missing against the likes of Chelsea, United, Arsenal etc?

all the **** time which is why i have my doubts about stevies temperament in the big games too. but then i think back to istanbul and olympiakos and think- how can i doubt him?

Devsan
28-2-10, 00:03
im sick of
IM SICK OF POSTS :fishing

skrteltheturtle89
28-2-10, 00:03
When someone says something equally as ludicrous as this to me in person, I smack them.

:D

caple
28-2-10, 00:04
er...a header from a corner at OT too

Sorry you're right.

But as we've established with Messi's Champions League final performance, that doesn't mean anything.

Snippes
28-2-10, 00:04
no im arguing for a player as good as messis supposed to be, he doesnt do it enough against the big boys. and im sorry but the performances back that up.

do i rate ibra? hehe, yes i do but like messi ive never seen him do it enough in the big games.

i DO rate messi you know, i just think he has a major weakness with his over reliance on his left foot which is exposed against the big boys

Who are these "big boys" you keep referring to? Where have they been cause last I checked, Messi won every single trophy he entered in last season so clearly the "big boys" aren't stopping him very much are they?

You referenced Chelsea...if it takes 3 or 4 of their big boys to slow him down - that's not a mark against Messi, its actually a badge of honor. Note, Messi pulling 3 or 4 people to him creates space and room for his teammates to do some damage. There are many ways to skin a cat.

Do you consider United to be "big boys"? Messi helped shred them in the CL final in case you missed that game - capping it all up with a fantastic goal. I would love to hear who it is you think Messi can't beat because am sure it'll be news to those players as well - LMAO!

This might the only place on earth where you have the best player in the world who on the pitch can do anything and everything and is a winner....off the pitch, he's by all accounts a great person and not a repulsive character like Ronaldo is. Yet here, Messi annoys some people...can't make this stuff up, really.

king-Carra
28-2-10, 00:04
Twice. A header + a pen.

Messi scored:D:scarf
YNWA

Is it bad that when I can only see your posts below the username, I know it's you? :D

Paullfc1976
28-2-10, 00:06
all the **** time which is why i have my doubts about stevies temperament in the big games too. but then i think back to istanbul and olympiakos and think- how can i doubt him?

Aye.

Ronaldo has gone missing in big games too allegedly. Messi is the most talented player I have seen and he WILL IMO go down as the greatest ever.

Alon1
28-2-10, 00:06
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

Surely a genius should be able to score more goals.

is this a joke or what?

king-Carra
28-2-10, 00:07
Everyone else has one. :D

Gazza74
28-2-10, 00:07
ok so tell me the games where he has? he scored a great header against manu yes, but his performance wasnt great.

so what other big games then?

Quite a few El Classico's for a start were he's been the star player, aswell as games against Espanyol, Atleti, Valencia, Depor, Sevilla the same.

Numerous Champions League matches, including group games, 1/4s, semi's and final.

Add these to the lesser matches in Spain and over a whole season with consistent, top class performances week in week out and the lad is world class and will eventually go down as one of the greatest ever.

The last 2 years he's gone to a whole new level in these terms and if he carries on lord knows what he can achieve.

On the ball, dribbling, there is no one better in world football currently.

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:09
Quite a few El Classico's for a start were he's been the star player, aswell as games against Espanyol, Atleti, Valencia, Depor, Sevilla the same.

Numerous Champions League matches, including group games, 1/4s, semi's and final.

Add these to the lesser matches in Spain and over a whole season with consistent, top class performances week in week out and the lad is world class and will eventually go down as one of the greatest ever.

The last 2 years he's gone to a whole new level in these terms and if he carries on lord knows what he can achieve.

On the ball, dribbling, there is no one better in world football currently.

apparently all this means nothing cause he didnt make much of an impression against chelsea :rolleyes:

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:11
inspired by the messi thread :D

Wowbagger
28-2-10, 00:12
i am looking at all posts by the Rafa Houllier in bad light from now on.

If he is anti-rafa then he is giving the sunshiners a lot of ammunition that idiots are criticising Rafa. And vice versa.

And to not just criticise without input to the thread, i would like to add that real-barca is much bigger than any league match in the world. Messi has owned that fixture most time for last 3-4 seasons.
Then he ripped bayen munich in CL last season. And scored in final. Assisted the iniesta goal against chelsea.
Outperformed everybody in the manu-barca ties 2 seasons ago when he made ronaldo and co look foolish when just returning from injury.
Since 2007 , messi has scored 17 goals in 28 appearances in CL. He has ripped domestic opposition like valencia, madrid and sevilla many times.

And for a winger who cuts in, his stats justify themselves :
Total :
Matches Goals Assists
195 104 48

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:12
Who are these "big boys" you keep referring to? Where have they been cause last I checked, Messi won every single trophy he entered in last season so clearly the "big boys" aren't stopping him very much are they?

You referenced Chelsea...if it takes 3 or 4 of their big boys to slow him down - that's not a mark against Messi, its actually a badge of honor. Note, Messi pulling 3 or 4 people to him creates space and room for his teammates to do some damage. There are many ways to skin a cat.

Do you consider United to be "big boys"? Messi helped shred them in the CL final in case you missed that game - capping it all up with a fantastic goal. I would love to hear who it is you think Messi can't beat because am sure it'll be news to those players as well - LMAO!

This might the only place on earth where you have the best player in the world who on the pitch can do anything and everything and is a winner....off the pitch, he's by all accounts a great person and not a repulsive character like Ronaldo is. Yet here, Messi annoys some people...can't make this stuff up, really.

well i know i keep going on about the chelsea semi last season but he got owned over two legs. did you see him against stuttgart the other night? again if you see these games, you will see the recurring theme im talking about. hes so so over reliant on one foot which makes you think just how bad is his right foot? sure his left is awsome but perhaps thats because its the only foot he EVER uses?

he didnt help shred man u in the final, iniesta did that. messi was anonymous, well virtually anyway. and this was against an inept utd performance that night.

messi isnt a 'great charachter'. he's a diving cheat sometimes just like ronaldo. theyre all the same.

i know i sound like a broken record but if you're a manager and you get youre tactics right with him he's easily STOPPABLE. can you say the same about ronaldo? no. i think ronaldo can be unstoppable no matter how you set up against him because he has so many other facets to his game like i said earlier mr wesley snipes. in comparison- stop messi using his left and you STOP messi. stop ronaldo using his left- he'll use his right. man mark him- he'll score with a bullet shot or a header. etc..

Gazza74
28-2-10, 00:13
apparently all this means nothing cause he didnt make much of an impression against chelsea :rolleyes:

To be honest, he wasn't that bad against Chelsea if i remember and he was constantly getting on the ball in both legs and causing Chelsea problems with his running and dribbling.

Chelsea were one of the strongest defences in Europe last season so it wasn't easy for anyone to break them down, but Messi did cause them problems and in truth, Barca as a team didn't play that great, so he can't do it all himself.

Even if he was crap over those 2 legs, the rest of the season he was simply breath-taking.

You know what, i can't believe i am having to defend Messi......:D

It's definately a Saturday night on .tv....:D

Gazza74
28-2-10, 00:16
messi isnt a 'great charachter'. he's a diving cheat sometimes just like ronaldo. theyre all the same.

i know i sound like a broken record but if you're a manager and you get youre tactics right with him he's easily STOPPABLE.

Messi dives???

He is one of the best players at running with the ball and staying on his feet because not many get near him.

Usually the only way to stop him is to boot him up in the air and he get's that a lot. He's very strong for his size though and add that to his dribbling ability and he's brilliant.

As for a manager getting his tactics right, you need to watch every game Messi plays from now onwards and i mean every one and see how many find it "Easy" to stop Messi.

You'll only need one hand and probably not all of the fingers on it.

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:16
To be honest, he wasn't that bad against Chelsea if i remember and he was constantly getting on the ball in both legs and causing Chelsea problems with his running and dribbling.

Chelsea were one of the strongest defences in Europe last season so it wasn't easy for anyone to break them down, but Messi did cause them problems and in truth, Barca as a team didn't play that great, so he can't do it all himself.

Even if he was crap over those 2 legs, the rest of the season he was simply breath-taking.

You know what, i can't believe i am having to defend Messi......:D

It's definately a Saturday night on .tv....:D

truly amazing stuff right :D

im sure messi will be heartbroken when he sits down to read the latest in the liverpool forums tonight :D

Wowbagger
28-2-10, 00:17
is this a joke or what?
as much as this one.
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=158725

Paullfc1976
28-2-10, 00:19
well i know i keep going on about the chelsea semi last season but he got owned over two legs. did you see him against stuttgart the other night? again if you see these games, you will see the recurring theme im talking about. hes so so over reliant on one foot which makes you think just how bad is his right foot? sure his left is awsome but perhaps thats because its the only foot he EVER uses?

he didnt help shred man u in the final, iniesta did that. messi was anonymous, well virtually anyway. and this was against an inept utd performance that night.

messi isnt a 'great charachter'. he's a diving cheat sometimes just like ronaldo. theyre all the same.

i know i sound like a broken record but if you're a manager and you get youre tactics right with him he's easily STOPPABLE. can you say the same about ronaldo? no. i think ronaldo can be unstoppable no matter how you set up against him because he has so many other facets to his game like i said earlier mr wesley snipes. in comparison- stop messi using his left and you STOP messi. stop ronaldo using his left- he'll use his right. man mark him- he'll score with a bullet shot or a header. etc..

Rubbish.

Messi is so effective, he get fouled so much it's untrue. You don't get voted European and World player of the year by such a HUGE margin like he did, for being over reliant on one foot. Yes Ronaldo scores bags of goals and that cannot be denied, but he also goes missing in games, Ronaldo will not control a game like Messi. Ronaldo scores goals for fun, but if you want a creative spark to change a tight game look no further then Messi.

king-Carra
28-2-10, 00:20
By george I'v cracked it.

It was Arbeloa's debut. He showed Messi up for what he really is that night. Everything else before and since has been sheer luck, a flash in the pan if you will.

I think we all owe RH an apology.

I have seen the light and will accordingly set about changing my ways.

All hail, Mario Stanic.:D

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:20
i am looking at all posts by the Rafa Houllier in bad light from now on.

If he is anti-rafa then he is giving the sunshiners a lot of ammunition that idiots are criticising Rafa. And vice versa.

And to not just criticise without input to the thread, i would like to add that real-barca is much bigger than any league match in the world. Messi has owned that fixture most time for last 3-4 seasons.
Then he ripped bayen munich in CL last season. And scored in final. Assisted the iniesta goal against chelsea.
Outperformed everybody in the manu-barca ties 2 seasons ago when he made ronaldo and co look foolish when just returning from injury.
Since 2007 , messi has scored 17 goals in 28 appearances in CL. He has ripped domestic opposition like valencia, madrid and sevilla many times.

And for a winger who cuts in, his stats justify themselves :
Total :
Matches Goals Assists
195 104 48

hmmm i admit you make a strong case for messi but i think you and most others have got the wrong end of the stick here.

as ive said again and again i DONT THINK MESSI IS CR*P. i think messi is GREAT. unless you watch the games ive seen him in , the stuttgart game, the chelseas, the lyon etc you wont fully grasp the points im trying to make.

and by the way- me being anti-rafa has nothing to do with this thread, so dont judge me on that

skrteltheturtle89
28-2-10, 00:21
well i know i keep going on about the chelsea semi last season but he got owned over two legs. did you see him against stuttgart the other night? again if you see these games, you will see the recurring theme im talking about. hes so so over reliant on one foot which makes you think just how bad is his right foot? sure his left is awsome but perhaps thats because its the only foot he EVER uses?

he didnt help shred man u in the final, iniesta did that. messi was anonymous, well virtually anyway. and this was against an inept utd performance that night.

messi isnt a 'great charachter'. he's a diving cheat sometimes just like ronaldo. theyre all the same.

i know i sound like a broken record but if you're a manager and you get youre tactics right with him he's easily STOPPABLE. can you say the same about ronaldo? no. i think ronaldo can be unstoppable no matter how you set up against him because he has so many other facets to his game like i said earlier mr wesley snipes. in comparison- stop messi using his left and you STOP messi. stop ronaldo using his left- he'll use his right. man mark him- he'll score with a bullet shot or a header. etc..

:D:D:D

if it was that easy to stop messi, dont you think everyone would have done it by now?

the man is like a bobo doll. trip him and he bounces back up again. he has a right foot which he does use sometimes, sure its not as good as his left.

can you name me a player with two sublime feet?


hmmm i admit you make a strong case for messi but i think you and most others have got the wrong end of the stick here.

as ive said again and again i DONT THINK MESSI IS CR*P. i think messi is GREAT. unless you watch the games ive seen him in , the stuttgart game, the chelsea, the lyon etc you will think im mad.

and btw, ,e being anti-rafa has nothing to do with this thread, so dont judge me on that

we have. we've also seen dozens of games you admit not having watched

stevieNnandoNpepe
28-2-10, 00:21
Sorry you're right.

But as we've established with Messi's Champions League final performance, that doesn't mean anything.
:D


Is it bad that when I can only see your posts below the username, I know it's you? :D

:D:eek: Are you stalking me or something?!
My posts are pretty much the same thing again and again, so probably not!

Gazza74
28-2-10, 00:23
truly amazing stuff right :D

im sure messi will be heartbroken when he sits down to read the latest in the liverpool forums tonight :D

Thing is, if Messi still has some wrinkles to iron out in his game, and he does at times, he is 22 years of age....Yes, 22. He is 4 or 5 years away from his prime years and look how good he is, look how good he has been, look what he has achieved and think what he can achieve over the next 10 years and he'll still only be 32...:D

Seriously, this lad is 22 and has played like a 27 year old since he was 16/17 and he is only going to get better and better as experience grows and that for me is the most frightening thing.

He can work on his right foot and then it's all over for the rest of the worlds players for the next decade and it already is given the lads form the last 2/3 years...:D

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:23
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

Surely a genius should be able to score more goals.

lol talk about being sarcastic

Sunraged
28-2-10, 00:24
It's like "yes we know you're not the greatest defender in the world, but why rub our faces in it week in, week out?".

:scarf

elscouse
28-2-10, 00:24
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

Surely a genius should be able to score more goals.

Is A. Genius related to O. Goal by any chance ;):D

Gazza74
28-2-10, 00:26
And yet he volleys one in at the Annie Road end right in front of me in the Main Stand 2 years ago to get a 1-1 draw...:eek:

I swear that wasn't really him...:D

Gazza74
28-2-10, 00:27
Not good enough our Nando.

No left foot.

Sunraged
28-2-10, 00:27
And yet he volleys one in at the Annie Road end right in front of me in the Main Stand 2 years ago to get a 1-1 draw...:eek:

I swear that wasn't really him...:D

He'll be telling his great grandkids about that goal the spawny get. :D

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:28
hmmm i admit you make a strong case for messi but i think you and most others have got the wrong end of the stick here.

as ive said again and again i DONT THINK MESSI IS CR*P. i think messi is GREAT. unless you watch the games ive seen him in , the stuttgart game, the chelseas, the lyon etc you wont fully grasp the points im trying to make.

and by the way- me being anti-rafa has nothing to do with this thread, so dont judge me on that

deary me, you could say that about any player in the world. you could also say messi is crap unless you watch the games i have watched. players are aloud bad games.

Wowbagger
28-2-10, 00:28
The op is just digging himself more and more. Messi is a "cheat"? Don't insult football mate.
He is probably the most honest skillful players around. He got pummeled by real madrid two seasons ago and everytime he just picked himself up.

Again i am not saying he never dived. Because he must have. But much much less than our beloved gerrard himself. Do you think gerrard is a "cheat"? Cause you have no option left mate other than to call gerrard a cheat now.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:28
Thing is, if Messi still has some wrinkles to iron out in his game, and he does at times, he is 22 years of age....Yes, 22. He is 4 or 5 years away from his prime years and look how good he is, look how good he has been, look what he has achieved and think what he can achieve over the next 10 years and he'll still only be 32...:D

Seriously, this lad is 22 and has played like a 27 year old since he was 16/17 and he is only going to get better and better as experience grows and that for me is the most frightening thing.

He can work on his right foot and then it's all over for the rest of the worlds players for the next decade and it already is given the lads form the last 2/3 years...:D

if he was going to work on his right foot he'd have done it by now. sadly the thing with players who have such a good one foot, is that they will rely more and more on it so much that they almost forget about the other foot. its human nature. it takes a lot of discipline to constantly work on your wrong foot and to resist the temptation of using your favourite foot.

thats why i rate players like zidane, c ronaldo and zola so much.

skrteltheturtle89
28-2-10, 00:30
if he was going to work on his right foot he'd have done it by now. sadly the thing with players who have such a good one foot, is that they will rely more and more on it so much that they almost forget about the other foot. its human nature. it takes a lot of discipline to constantly work on your wrong foot and to resist the temptation of using your favourite foot.

thats why i rate players like zidane, c ronaldo and zola so much.

:D:D

he uses his right foot as much as right footed players use their left feet

i hope you like holes, you're digging a pretty massive one for yourself in this thread

Jazzy-J
28-2-10, 00:31
kaka achievements/performaces for brazil vs messi for Argentina.

Shall we compare Jan Koller's achievements/performances for Czech Republic to Steven Gerrard's for England?

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:31
The op is just digging himself more and more. Messi is a "cheat"? Don't insult football mate.
He is probably the most honest skillful players around. He got pummeled by real madrid two seasons ago and everytime he just picked himself up.

Again i am not saying he never dived. Because he must have. But much much less than our beloved gerrard himself. Do you think gerrard is a "cheat"? Cause you have no option left mate other than to call gerrard a cheat now.

what kind of reasoning is this? is this your way of backing me into a corner so you can win some cheap points? dont tell me youve never called a player a cheat before in the heat of the moment. so you'll have to call nando and gerrard a cheat now along with me too right?

messi does his fair share of diving. perhaps it was a bit overboard to call him a cheat, but hey thats what happens in the heat of the moment

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:32
:D:D

he uses his right foot as much as right footed players use their left feet

i hope you like holes, you're digging a pretty massive one for yourself in this thread

I wouldnt describe it as a whole, more of a crater :)

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:33
lulz :D

Paullfc1976
28-2-10, 00:34
I wouldnt describe it as a whole, more of a crater :)

*hole :p

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:34
Shall we compare Jan Koller's achievements/performances for Czech Republic to Steven Gerrard's for England?

well its funny you should say that because yes how about we do? we live in a bubble here which is called the premier league where we automatically think the premier players are so much better than most others.
we can deride jan koller , make fun of him as much as we like but hes done a helluva lot more for his country than gerrard and lampard have for england.

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:35
haha another one :D

king-Carra
28-2-10, 00:35
:D:eek: Are you stalking me or something?!
My posts are pretty much the same thing again and again, so probably not!


Only on weekends. :D

Gazza74
28-2-10, 00:35
as ive said again and again i DONT THINK MESSI IS CR*P. i think messi is GREAT. unless you watch the games ive seen him in , the stuttgart game, the chelseas, the lyon etc you wont fully grasp the points im trying to make.

Barca were poor in general against Stuttgart so it's unfair to look at Messi in that game. He hardly got any service to be able to do anything as overall Barca didn't really turn up.

I still don't see why you think just because he plays from the right he has to use his right foot and go down the line. That's not the way Barca really play as they use the full backs to give them that width and allow Messi to come inside and cause the havoc he regularly does.

Messi was/is actually a striker by trade and that's why he comes inside a lot when starting from the right as it's his natural inclination to and Barca like to use strikers in the wide areas so they can come inside and cause problems, which Messi certainly does.

In truth, him not using his right foot much is no reflection on him at all because he can keep the ball so superbly with his left when running at pace at defenders he is often very hard to stop.

As i say, it's part of Barca's tactics to have players coming inside off the wings and in Messi they have one of the best.

Mike90
28-2-10, 00:35
If he is anti-rafa then he is giving the sunshiners a lot of ammunition that idiots are criticising Rafa. And vice versa.


Its far far to late for that mate that already is the general perception and to be honest they aren't far of.

I mean how many times have we seen anti Rafa posters points ripped apart time and time again because their pure noncence, its countless.

You'll get the odd fan who puts up a good case for rafa to leave but they're very few and far between I'm afraid.

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:36
*hole :p

im trying to divert attention from the op :o ok im just really bad speller :D

-SP7-
28-2-10, 00:36
Is this some kind of line RafaHoullier up against the wall and throw tomatoes at him kind of affair?

Paullfc1976
28-2-10, 00:36
well its funny you should say that because yes how about we do? we live in a bubble here which is called the premier league where we automatically think the premier players are so much better than most others.
we can deride jan koller , make fun of him as much as we like but hes done a helluva lot more for his country than gerrard and lampard have for england.

I think you'll see Jazel knows more about Jan Koller then you'd think, considering where he lived for a number of years

WindyShepherdHenderson
28-2-10, 00:36
haha another one :D

Mine was the original parody

Daftvader
28-2-10, 00:37
Is it just me, or does this really annoy others to.
ARSE-SHAVINGS goal celebrations. :mad: :mad: :mad:

There is the poke the tongue out, and run like an imbocile, the oh gosh I just scored goal of the century celebration, and the annoying , shrug of the shoulders, "yeah I know I'm good celebration"

king-Carra
28-2-10, 00:37
Is this some kind of line RafaHoullier up against the wall and throw tomatoes at him kind of affair?

Woohoo. I'll bring the beers.

Gazza74
28-2-10, 00:37
if he was going to work on his right foot he'd have done it by now. sadly the thing with players who have such a good one foot, is that they will rely more and more on it so much that they almost forget about the other foot. its human nature. it takes a lot of discipline to constantly work on your wrong foot and to resist the temptation of using your favourite foot.

thats why i rate players like zidane, c ronaldo and zola so much.

He does use his right foot and stops the ball and passes it with it to, it's not just for standing on.

But like any player, he has a stronger foot and uses that more than the other and that isn't some strange occurance, it's the norm with players.

If you think Ronaldo, Zola and Zidane didn't favour one side you never watched them enough.

kopitecrash
28-2-10, 00:37
Is this some kind of line RafaHoullier up against the wall and throw tomatoes at him kind of affair?

it looks as if he delivered those tomatoes to them first class.

Sunraged
28-2-10, 00:37
lulz :D

It's always for the lulz mate, always for the lulz :D

-SP7-
28-2-10, 00:37
I just logged on but I am officially already bored of all of these 'I'm sick of' things. Joke taken too far? Maybe :P

Jazzy-J
28-2-10, 00:37
well its funny you should say that because yes how about we do? we live in a bubble here which is called the premier league where we automatically think the premier players are so much better than most others.
we can deride jan koller , make fun of him as much as we like but hes done a helluva lot more for his country than gerrard and lampard have for england.

You missed my point. Koller is ****. I'm saying this from first hand experience. I was pointing out that your point was irrelevant.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:38
Its far far to late for that mate that already is the general perception and to be honest they aren't far of.

I mean how many times have we seen anti Rafa posters points ripped apart time and time again because their pure noncence, its countless.

You'll get the odd fan who puts up a good case for rafa to leave but they're very few and far between I'm afraid.

only a few hours ago you come into a thread and immediately label me as a troll without contributing anything to the topic, and now after 150 odd posts about messi, youre only contribution is to come into this thread and seek out the one off topic post about what? yes you guessed it- rafa.

Sunraged
28-2-10, 00:38
He looks like a simpleton when he celebrates.

-SP7-
28-2-10, 00:39
You deserve a reply as I hate to see a topic with 0 replies.

Here is my pity reply.

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:39
ok where are the mods, this has gone on long enough now :D

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:40
You missed my point. Koller is ****. I'm saying this from first hand experience. I was pointing out that your point was irrelevant.

yes i know what you were pointing out but my point is- is koller really that **** considering his record for the czechs? you can make fun of him but as others in this thread are so big on FACTS, the FACTS dont lie when it comes to his international record

Daftvader
28-2-10, 00:41
ok where are the mods, this has gone on long enough now :D

Next thread will be I'm sick of threads starting with "i'm sick of...." :p

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:41
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

September was the last straw for me, watching him play against Hull. Literally every single time he got the ball he just shot, shot, shot.

I've never seen such a goalscorer be called a genius so much. Why he gets so much media praise when he is quote obviously obsessed with scoring is beyond me. Just watch a rerun of the Hull match and you'll see what i mean. The reason he gets away with it is because his accuracy is so good and he's so quick and nimble, so even when he does shoot it can still get past the keeper.

Yes I think he's a great player but he can't be put in the same bracket as Harewood and Vennegoor of Hesselink until he learns to miss once in a while. It's obvious all you need to do is injure him and he becomes ineffective. New Ian Rush? I don't think so.

now come on, theres no need for it..just no need...:sleepy:

Paullfc1976
28-2-10, 00:41
yes i know what you were pointing out but my point is- is koller really that **** considering his record for the czechs? you can make fun of him but as others in this thread are so big on FACTS, the FACTS dont lie when it comes to his international record

Koller was a big pile of donkey crap.

Jazzy-J
28-2-10, 00:41
yes i know what you were pointing out but my point is- is koller really that **** considering his record for the czechs? you can make fun of him but as others in this thread are so big on FACTS, the FACTS dont lie when it comes to his international record

So do Messi's career goalscoring stats count for or against him? Considering they're better than those of Ronaldo and Kaka.

And yes, Koller really is that ****. In his last 5 years of club football he scored 14 goals.

Rieko
28-2-10, 00:42
So Messi is so one dimensional its hard to defend against him :D And this is a bad thing, how? :confused:

Someone please help because I am a bit at a loss on this one.

Even if we were to pretend that Messi is "one dimensional" for one second - he's not, but okay let's pretend - the fact that he is one footed, one dimensional, keeps cutting inside and is still the best player, practically the most impossible player in the world to stop and he does your nut in. How ridiculous, is that - LOL. I would think the fact that he can still beat any and all defenders in the world and forces teams like Chelsea to double, tripple team...that this makes him a genius, not annoying.

For the record, he is not one dimensional - totally ridiculous obtuse observation. Messi can beat you dribbling fast or slow, he can beat shooting from anywhere in the pitch...he can beat with his head a la the CL final last season. Just because he's not the most two footed players in the world that doesn't make him one dimensional. Quite the opposite, Messi is more dimensional than just about every other player in the world - you just can't see how many dimensions he has for some strange reason.

Is it just me or the OP a totally clueless putz? Never seen him here before but am reading some real belters outta him today :D

All I was saying was sometimes when I watch him and he cuts inside all the time it does my nut in. I've seen enough of him to make my own mind up as everytime I watch him it's the same. Like I said originally he's so effective it's not really a major criticsm. Reason I posted is because I could see where the OP was coming from although wouldn't say I'm sick of it and would I have Messi in Liverpools starting line up, of course I would.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:42
Is it just me or does this really annoy others too?

September was the last straw for me, watching him play against Hull. Literally every single time he got the ball he just shot, shot, shot.

I've never seen such a goalscorer be called a genius so much. Why he gets so much media praise when he is quote obviously obsessed with scoring is beyond me. Just watch a rerun of the Hull match and you'll see what i mean. The reason he gets away with it is because his accuracy is so good and he's so quick and nimble, so even when he does shoot it can still get past the keeper.

Yes I think he's a great player but he can't be put in the same bracket as Harewood and Vennegoor of Hesselink until he learns to miss once in a while. It's obvious all you need to do is injure him and he becomes ineffective. New Ian Rush? I don't think so.

actually i will begrudgingly concede..its quite funny :)

Mike-91
28-2-10, 00:42
Dear god

Gazza74
28-2-10, 00:44
I think it's fair to say the starter of this thread will be in a majority of ONE in the world of football with his views on Messi.

I watch the lad play and it's just a joy to see how easy football is for him and how the ball just sticks to him when he's running with it and taking players on.

Have a look at Messi and count how many times he actually loses control of the ball when he is running with it slowly or quickly.

No opposition player is ever really gifted the ball back off Messi and it's usually a foul that get's them it back or another Barca player losing it after Messi has moved it on.

I could quite simply watch this lad on the ball every day for the rest of my life, he's a player that sums up why football is so great.

WindyShepherdHenderson
28-2-10, 00:45
Toni Polster > Messi

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:45
So do Messi's career goalscoring stats count for or against him? Considering they're better than those of Ronaldo and Kaka.

And yes, Koller really is that ****. In his last 5 years of club football he scored 14 goals.

well exactly but if you use the FACTS for messi then you have to be fair to koller and use his international FACTS- which are pretty good. you cant have one rule for one, and another for the other

Jazzy-J
28-2-10, 00:46
well exactly but if you use the FACTS for messi then you have to be fair to koller and use his international FACTS- which are pretty good. you cant have one rule for one, and another for the other

That's exactly the point I'm making. You don't seem to be too sure which side you're on.

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 00:46
although i think messi does well in ALL games big or small, would you prefer a player who does the business in the big games or the small games? i would go for small as there are more of them and over the course of the season would benefit you more. just look at man uniteds record againts big teams last season yet they won the league.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:47
I think it's fair to say the starter of this thread will be in a majority of ONE in the world of football with his views on Messi.

I watch the lad play and it's just a joy to see how easy football is for him and how the ball just sticks to him when he's running with it and taking players on.

Have a look at Messi and count how many times he actually loses control of the ball when he is running with it slowly or quickly.

No opposition player is ever really gifted the ball back off Messi and it's usually a foul that get's them it back or another Barca player losing it after Messi has moved it on.

I could quite simply watch this lad on the ball every day for the rest of my life, he's a player that sums up why football is so great.

okay fair enough you obviously think messi is that good, and like i said i think hes a great player too, i just happen to think c ronaldo is better.

its all about opinions which is what makes football so great

king-Carra
28-2-10, 00:48
You deserve a reply as I hate to see a topic with 0 replies.

Here is my pity reply.

I'll take it.

:D

-SP7-
28-2-10, 00:48
okay fair enough you obviously think messi is that good, and like i said i think hes a great player too, i just happen to think c ronaldo is better.

its all about opinions which is what makes football so great

On that argument pretty much anything in the world is 'great'.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:48
That's exactly the point I'm making. You don't seem to be too sure which side you're on.

well yes but neither do you. youre saying messis great based on facts, and kollers c**p but kollers international facts regarding goals and assists are really good. by the way i think kollers a **** player

Gazza74
28-2-10, 00:48
All I was saying was sometimes when I watch him and he cuts inside all the time it does my nut in. I've seen enough of him to make my own mind up as everytime I watch him it's the same. Like I said originally he's so effective it's not really a major criticsm. Reason I posted is because I could see where the OP was coming from although wouldn't say I'm sick of it and would I have Messi in Liverpools starting line up, of course I would.

It's part of Barca's gameplan to have the wide men cutting inside. You'll see it from the player on the left to. It allows the full backs to get forward and be the actual wide men in moves, Alves being the one for the right currently, Belletti before him.

If you are going to have a player cutting in in this tactic then celebrate long into the night if you have Messi because there is no one better at it and 9 times out of 10 something good will happen every 10 times Messi does it because he's a little genius.

He's played out right and he's instructed to come inside and so he does it, but he does often drift around and come inside for a starting position in Barca's fluid system and sometimes finds himself as the striker and he still causes problems then.

Put him anywhere on the pitch in forward areas and he'll be brilliant.

Sunraged
28-2-10, 00:49
I'll take it.

:D

Sounds like your missus has off Cashley :D

:scarf

Jazzy-J
28-2-10, 00:49
well yes but neither do you. youre saying messis great based on facts, and kollers c**p but kollers international facts regarding goals and assists are really good. by the way i think kollers a **** player

I didn't actually give my opinion though, clever clogs. You're almost as bad as Domino at getting the point.

Gazza74
28-2-10, 00:51
okay fair enough you obviously think messi is that good, and like i said i think hes a great player too, i just happen to think c ronaldo is better.

its all about opinions which is what makes football so great

You do realise that Ronaldo is predominanty right footed right and the ball spends most of it's time on that foot with him??

I don't think there is much to choose between the 2, but i'd edge towards Messi each time because i just love watching him play, whereas i don't with Ronaldo really.

-SP7-
28-2-10, 00:52
Have all of the threads been merged into here :confused: :confused:

Sunraged
28-2-10, 00:53
I can't see that Messi's ability as a player, is up for debate.

He is by far the absolute daddy.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:53
You do realise that Ronaldo is predominanty right footed right and the ball spends most of it's time on that foot with him??

I don't think there is much to choose between the 2, but i'd edge towards Messi each time because i just love watching him play, whereas i don't with Ronaldo really.

yes obviously every player has one favoured foot of course you cant all be like ronnie o sullivan, but boy oh boy can ronaldo use both feet when he needs to.

i just think hes absolutely fantastic, even though hes a former manc hes the best player i believe since maradonna, better than zidane for sure

king-Carra
28-2-10, 00:53
Sounds like your missus has off Cashley :D

:scarf

Meh, makes us even then :D

Sunraged
28-2-10, 00:55
Meh, makes us even then :D

Kind of lost it's impact now the threads merged though. :(

Has JT offered to console you?

Mike90
28-2-10, 00:56
only a few hours ago you come into a thread and immediately label me as a troll without contributing anything to the topic, and now after 150 odd posts about messi, youre only contribution is to come into this thread and seek out the one off topic post about what? yes you guessed it- rafa.

I was just merely responding to his point jut like you were earlier.

So it works both ways.

Rieko
28-2-10, 00:57
It's part of Barca's gameplan to have the wide men cutting inside. You'll see it from the player on the left to. It allows the full backs to get forward and be the actual wide men in moves, Alves being the one for the right currently, Belletti before him.

If you are going to have a player cutting in in this tactic then celebrate long into the night if you have Messi because there is no one better at it and 9 times out of 10 something good will happen every 10 times Messi does it because he's a little genius.

He's played out right and he's instructed to come inside and so he does it, but he does often drift around and come inside for a starting position in Barca's fluid system and sometimes finds himself as the striker and he still causes problems then.

Put him anywhere on the pitch in forward areas and he'll be brilliant.

I'd agree with all that.

king-Carra
28-2-10, 00:57
Kind of lost it's impact now the threads merged though. :(

Has JT offered to console you?

He tried. I told him only an x-box 360 elite will do. :D:scarf

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 00:58
I was just merely responding to his point jut like you were earlier.

So it works both ways.

i have a thread which is entirely about lionel messi, not once mentioned rafa, yet you just need to keep scouring these forums to politely remind everyone about my posting history.

thanks

Gazza74
28-2-10, 01:00
i just think hes absolutely fantastic, even though hes a former manc hes the best player i believe since maradonna, better than zidane for sure

He's nowhere near better than Zidane for me, no chance. Never will be.

And again, Messi can use his right foot when he needs to, he just doesn't have to because he's a genius with his left and has no need for his right foot.

When you're that good with one foot, the other foot is only needed in emergencies.

Mike90
28-2-10, 01:01
i have a thread which is entirely about lionel messi, not once mentioned rafa, yet you just need to keep scouring these forums to politely remind everyone about my posting history.

thanks

I was taking about the anti Rafa group in general based on what I've seen on these forums for a good few years now not just you so get so get of your high horse, this is nothing to do with earlier on which was a slight misunderstanding I'll admit.

Mike-91
28-2-10, 01:01
Messi really shocks me with his skill at times, the way he moves the ball and he draws players into moves where the defender thinks he has him then messi turns and goes right past him.

Im so sure he will be the greatest player i will see with a ball at his feet.

Chris-Ninis
28-2-10, 01:04
Poor Fowi will be turning in his grave.

Rieko
28-2-10, 01:05
He's nowhere near better than Zidane for me, no chance. Never will be.
And again, Messi can use his right foot when he needs to, he just doesn't have to because he's a genius with his left and has no need for his right foot.

When you're that good with one foot, the other foot is only needed in emergencies.

Messi or Ronaldo can't touch Zidane in my opinion. My mild criticsm of Messi is probably due to the fact that I prefer that type of player, when Zidane got the ball it was as if he made everyone else go in slow motion.

Daftvader
28-2-10, 01:09
Messi really shocks me with his skill at times, the way he moves the ball and he draws players into moves where the defender thinks he has him then messi turns and goes right past him.

Im so sure he will be the greatest player i will see with a ball at his feet.
Agreed. You dont need blistering pace when you have the skill to turn defenders inside out. He is ptw....pretty to watch

Sunraged
28-2-10, 01:17
He tried. I told him only an x-box 360 elite will do. :D:scarf

See what you did there :D

king-Carra
28-2-10, 01:21
See what you did there :D

:D

DiGenius
28-2-10, 01:21
we all know who aint getting no nookie tonight :scarf

RedBaros
28-2-10, 01:24
So has this thread been epic? :D

I left it end of page 1 to watch motd and came back 227posts later :eek:
Rafahohohoullier with an extra red box to his name for his troubles! :mad::D

Messi indeed :fishing

Gazza74
28-2-10, 01:26
Give me Jimmy Carter before Messi anyday of the week...:scarf

Liverpoolforme
28-2-10, 01:28
i cant belive this thread is still going.

Fairclough77
28-2-10, 01:29
I'm a massive messi and ronaldo fan (even when he was at united) lionel messi is still so young and has so much time to develop, and still at his age he does things that would make the most expirienced players double take, I'd say ronaldo is slightly more predicable than messi, both brilliant players. Honestly though would rather watch an in-form Gerrard...

KanyeWest
28-2-10, 01:42
You should be banned for this disgrace of a thread. To suggest hes not even in the same league as Kaka just makes you sound like a complete fool, plain and simple.

stevieNnandoNpepe
28-2-10, 01:43
Only on weekends. :D

You stalk me on weekends only?!:eek:

king-Carra
28-2-10, 01:44
You stalk me on weekends only?!:eek:

Cheryl keeps me busy. We discussed this already. :D

Gazza74
28-2-10, 01:45
You should be banned for this disgrace of a thread. To suggest hes not even in the same league as Kaka just makes you sound like a complete fool, plain and simple.

Over the last 2 years, Messi has been Premier league, Kaka has been League 2.

Kaka has dipped a lot since 2007 and hasn't really rediscovered things at Real Madrid, not to that level he once had.

stevieNnandoNpepe
28-2-10, 01:50
Cheryl keeps me busy. We discussed this already. :D

:crying

Cole > stevieNnando...:(:crying

Fowi
28-2-10, 01:51
It doesn't matter what he does. What matters is that humans cannot stop Messi.

Carminati
28-2-10, 02:08
I don't think anybody can drop lower than you just have. Why would he "need a right foot" if he's already the best player in the world? It's like saying Zidane's ability was irrelevant because his goal kicks probably wouldn't have had that much distance.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 02:29
I don't think anybody can drop lower than you just have. Why would he "need a right foot" if he's already the best player in the world? It's like saying Zidane's ability was irrelevant because his goal kicks probably wouldn't have had that much distance.

i think thats going a bit far. best player in the world is your opinion, and many others. im not saying his right foot should be anywhere near as good as his left, im just saying he should be competent enough to use it once in a while.

everyone posting in messis defence here have not once commented on his lack of right foot. they say what does it matter when his left is so good? so what happens when a manger just tells his players to show him onto his right like hiddink did? you know what? lets keep this thread and resurrect it in a few months time when messi is shown up with his one footedness once again in a major champions league tie- ill make you eat your words

Fowi
28-2-10, 02:31
i think thats going a bit far. best player in the world is your opinion, and many others. im not saying his right foot should be anywhere near as good as his left, im just saying he should be competent enough to use it once in a while.

everyone posting in messis defence here have not once commented on his lack of right foot. they say what does it matter when his left is so good? so what happens when a manger just tells his players to show him onto his right like hiddink did? you know what? lets keep this thread and resurrect it in a few months time when messi is shown up with his one footedness once again in a major champions league tie- ill make you eat your words

Messi has already won 2 Champions League titles and finished the last one as the top scorer in the competition. He has already shown that Champions League is too easy for him.

Carminati
28-2-10, 02:32
i think thats going a bit far. best player in the world is your opinion, and many others. im not saying his right foot should be anywhere near as good as his left, im just saying he should be competent enough to use it once in a while.He is.

everyone posting in messis defence here have not once commented on his lack of right foot. they say what does it matter when his left is so good? so what happens when a manger just tells his players to show him onto his right like hiddink did? you know what? lets keep this thread and resurrect it in a few months time when messi is shown up with his one footedness once again in a major champions league tie- ill make you eat your words
God. You must think that Messi is as bad as Etherington. If he's shown onto his right foot then he'll still demolish the team with his left.

KanyeWest
28-2-10, 02:36
i think thats going a bit far. best player in the world is your opinion, and many others. im not saying his right foot should be anywhere near as good as his left, im just saying he should be competent enough to use it once in a while.

everyone posting in messis defence here have not once commented on his lack of right foot. they say what does it matter when his left is so good? so what happens when a manger just tells his players to show him onto his right like hiddink did? you know what? lets keep this thread and resurrect it in a few months time when messi is shown up with his one footedness once again in a major champions league tie- ill make you eat your words

Do you think Hiddink is the first manager Messi's come up against that has told his defenders to do this?

Gazza74
28-2-10, 02:44
i think thats going a bit far. best player in the world is your opinion, and many others. im not saying his right foot should be anywhere near as good as his left, im just saying he should be competent enough to use it once in a while.

He does use his right foot, so the whole argument was flawed from your first post really.

The point that's been put to you is that he doesn't NEED to due to just how good he is with his left and what he does with it.

He isn't a proper winger in the sense that he'll go down the right and put crosses in, in fact, he ain't a winger period, he's a striker. If he played on the left he would still come inside as that's his natural instinct.

His not using his right foot much is nothing really to do with his overall ability and contribution and loads of world class players only use their other foot to stand on and some of the very best ever to.

Gazza74
28-2-10, 02:46
lets keep this thread and resurrect it in a few months time when messi is shown up with his one footedness once again in a major champions league tie- ill make you eat your words

I'm sure if Messi is lifting the CL again like last season after his goal helped win it he won't give a toss if in the odd game he doesn't have as much joy as in 99% of his other matches.

RafaAlardyceHoullier
28-2-10, 02:58
He does use his right foot, so the whole argument was flawed from your first post really.

The point that's been put to you is that he doesn't NEED to due to just how good he is with his left and what he does with it.

He isn't a proper winger in the sense that he'll go down the right and put crosses in, in fact, he ain't a winger period, he's a striker. If he played on the left he would still come inside as that's his natural instinct.

His not using his right foot much is nothing really to do with his overall ability and contribution and loads of world class players only use their other foot to stand on and some of the very best ever to.

he doesn't use his right foot which is one of the reasons why i made this whole thread. put it this way he uses his right foot as much as babel uses his left- so does that mean he uses his right foot? do you think i'd have gone to all this trouble to vent my peculiar frustration if i thought he used his right foot? what do you mean by use his right foot anyway? do you mean to control a two yard pass or to go on the outside of a player because he is showing you on the outside cos he knows you so obviously want to cut in and use your left to show how much of a 'genius' you are.

once again everyones gonna think i dont rate messi so just to clear up any confusion i repeat: i think messis a great player

skrteltheturtle89
28-2-10, 02:59
about 3 mins 7 secs in. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jvHcaqtpv8&feature=related)

thats his right foot. most strikers would be proud to score that with their stronger foot.

both his goals in that game were actually scored with his right foot coincidentally

WindyShepherdHenderson
28-2-10, 03:03
If, as you say, he is "predictable and cuts inside", then why can absolutely no-one stop him doing it? Surely this is even more of an indication he's utterly spectacular, no?

Gazza74
28-2-10, 03:04
he doesn't use his right foot which is one of the reasons why i made this whole thread.

He does use it, he just doesn't need to often because he's world class and the best current player in the world and that's just using his left.

You've admitted you have only seen him now and then, so how can you then proclaim he doesn't use his right foot??..You can, so don't.

I think you'll find yourself in a majority of ONE in the world of football with your view of Messi.