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View Full Version : We've got the money - why not buy a PROPER Alonso replacement!



SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 12:55
We've always talked about how Alonso's departure left us falling apart right in front of our eyes. He was what everything revolved around, he was in the engine room, he was our playmaker!

The thing with the 08/09 team, was that we had an incredibly strong spine, of which the season was built on!! We've got a great spine again, but don't you think if we get a PROPER replacement for alonso, how much better off we would be!!

And i'm not talking about charlie adam! Nor am i talking about aquilani!

One of the main problems with the 08/09 season, was that we lacked strength/depth. We can definitely solve that problem now, with hopefully the sales of several of the dead wood, the buys of 5/6 quality players, and with the additions of several youngsters in and around the squad, making their impact, throughout the course of the season!!

And i would play him alongside gerrard in central midfield, against the relegation threatened sides - I repeat against relegation threatened sides - playing an attacking and high pressured game - like against Bham - and aim to batter those team 4/5-0 (we won't do it all the time - but we can try :D - rather than risk drawing/losing like we've done, over the past decade)!! We know how beat the big teams, it time we beat the smaller teams and then we're champions - simples!!

I don't think people have really ever considered this before as they just assume that we will never replace him, and have the mentality (caused by H+G :mad: ) that we can't afford it!! It's almost like "oh aquilani failed" (He was just never an alonso type player anyway and injury proned), who was alonso's initial replacement, and that was that!!

I wouldn't say that we will ever be able to get a ready-made replacement - unless we're in the CL - but we can go for a young (aged 21/22/23), whose got the talent/potential to be that type of player and aim to nurture him to hopefully a worldclass talent!! I know that people will object and think, we don't want to play a youngsters having to adapt or whatever!! Well i'd think there a HUGE chance of youngsters being involved next season anyway (U18/Reserves in England is VERY different from PL football btw - the kids have to adapt just as much as foreign players), this player could be another one!!

And plus, wouldn't you rather do that with a younger player, than cry about lack of creativity we may end up having - IN DEEP CENTRAL MIDFIELD!!

If we can get another TOP wide midfield player (Mata/Sanchez/Hazard - would be bliss - probably won't happen but who knows), add a winger (just one), LB, CB would do!!!

GordonBennett
25-4-11, 12:56
We've got one, goes by the name of Lucas Leiva.

caple
25-4-11, 12:58
We should look into signing a centre mid, yes.

He doesn't need to play like Alonso though.

Farontaur
25-4-11, 12:58
We've got one, goes by the name of Lucas Leiva.

This.

Although Lucas isn't (yet) a Xabi, I fear that we could end up flooding the centre midfield slots too much and surely this would only harm the younger members of the squad in their development? Shelvey, Suso, Coady etc.

-Gola-
25-4-11, 12:58
will be very hard to find anyone that comes close to xabi like

charlie adam would be a very good option at just £7-9m

but i honestly dont think there is another xabi alonso type out there that would be available in the summer

Liverdinner
25-4-11, 13:00
Lets buy somebody who has more attacking attributes than Xabi, and let Lucas or somebody else protect the defence like Xabi would.

-Gola-
25-4-11, 13:00
We should look into signing a centre mid, yes.

He doesn't need to play like Alonso though.

i want someone who will dominate the midfield against the lesser more physical sides, lucas cant really do that and we need more options

TeenageMutantNinJaSkrtel
25-4-11, 13:00
We've got one, goes by the name of Lucas Leiva.

^Totally agree

And he is getting better

And he is only 24.

He was improving season on season before Kenny came in, but the difference in his level has shot out of the stratosphere under Kenny.

On current evidence, is going to be better than Xabi, and he has signed a new contract, and he is happy with us, and he will be captain of Brazil soon.

Suarez and Maxi got most of the praise for the goals and assists on Saturday, but watching the game again, he was everywhere doing everything.

We have a real player on our hands.

:scarf

-SilkySkills-
25-4-11, 13:00
i would buy schweinsteiger for that role

Seanosdelgardo
25-4-11, 13:02
You only need an Alonso replacement if we play in the same style as we did in 08-09....but we dont.

Kennys style is built on perpetual, quick, pass and move football. Xabi is very good at launching counter attacks and spreading play but thats not our style anymore.

While it would be great to have an Alonso style player in the squad, its not as vital as he once was for us.

TeenageMutantNinJaSkrtel
25-4-11, 13:02
i want someone who will dominate the midfield against the lesser more physical sides, lucas cant really do that and we need more options

Birmingham are not "lesser opponents?".

He dominated that one, from start to finish almost.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 13:02
will be very hard to find anyone that comes close to xabi like

charlie adam would be a very good option at just £7-9m

but i honestly dont think there is another xabi alonso type out there that would be available in the summer
That's why i'm talking about getting a young-ish player, who can be moulded into a central creative player!!

I'm not saying he has to be exactly like alonso, but with similar traits, great passer,who has vision and adds creativity!!

swg19
25-4-11, 13:02
Yann M'villa? Classy player probaby looking at 15mil though.

caple
25-4-11, 13:04
i want someone who will dominate the midfield against the lesser more physical sides, lucas cant really do that and we need more options

Lucas is fine for that.

What we really need is someone who can keep the ball and offer a passing option.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 13:06
Birmingham are not "lesser opponents?".

He dominated that one, from start to finish almost.
I hate when people think that is dominating!!

He was fantastic against Bham, but he did his defensive job, and his passing was good, but he did not control the game - look at the possession stats - neither did he dictate the pace of the game and HE IS NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD WHEN PASSING THE BALL!!

The thing people fail to understand, is when it comes passing th ball of that quality - you've either got it or you don't!!

YOU DON'T LEARN THAT AT THE AGE OF 23!! You should already have that in your locker when you're 12/13 years old!!

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 13:07
We've got one, goes by the name of Lucas Leiva.No we don't!!

caple
25-4-11, 13:08
i hate when people think that is dominating!!

He was fantastic against bham, but he did his defensive job, and his passing was good, but he did not control the game - look at the possession stats - neither did he dictate the pace of the game and he is nowhere near as good when passing the ball!!

the thing people fail to understand, is when it comes passing th ball of that quality - you've either got it or you don't!!

You don't learn that at the age of 23!! You should already have that in your locker when you're 12/13 years old!!

!!!!!1!!!11

Liverdinner
25-4-11, 13:09
I hate when people think that is dominating!!

He was fantastic against Bham, but he did his defensive job, and his passing was good, but he did not control the game - look at the possession stats - neither did he dictate the pace of the game and HE IS NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD WHEN PASSING THE BALL!!

The thing people fail to understand, is when it comes passing th ball of that quality - you've either got it or you don't!!

YOU DON'T LEARN THAT AT THE AGE OF 23!! You should already have that in your locker when you're 12/13 years old!!

Why do people get so caught up in possession stats? Possession could be passing it round the back four. Invariably, a midfield doesnt have minutes of possession passing it around, usually they get it forward and attack.


Barca had more possession than Real and lost.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 13:10
This.

Although Lucas isn't (yet) a Xabi, I fear that we could end up flooding the centre midfield slots too much and surely this would only harm the younger members of the squad in their development? Shelvey, Suso, Coady etc.
Next season, i think we should have, Gerrard, miereles, lucas, shelvy, and a another (the player i'm talking about)

This stills allows suso, coady to some through.

I don't think we should keep spearing, as good as he has done - i think coady will be better that's why!!
I know people will want to keep him, but we got to have the BEST WE POSSIBLY CAN

que-sera-sera
25-4-11, 13:12
I think weve got good options in that position right now with gerrard,meireles,lucas,spearing and shelvey all capable of playing in the "alonso" role.We need to fill the wide positions more importantly.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 13:13
i would buy schweinsteiger for that roleYeah, he's the closest player to alonso!!
But he does play in the CL, and that's why i said we aren't gonna get a readymade star!! We've gotta produce our own, just like we did with alonso (he came to us when he was 22/23)!!

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 13:14
This.

Although Lucas isn't (yet) a Xabi, I fear that we could end up flooding the centre midfield slots too much and surely this would only harm the younger members of the squad in their development? Shelvey, Suso, Coady etc.
He ain't ever gonna be a Xabi!!

Like i said in a previous thread "The thing people fail to understand, is when it comes passing the ball of that quality - you've either got it or you don't!! YOU DON'T LEARN THAT AT THE AGE OF 23!! You should already have that in your locker when you're 12/13 years old!!"

caple
25-4-11, 13:15
Yeah, he's the closest player to alonso!!
But he does play in the CL, and that's why i said we aren't gonna get a readymade star!! We've gotta produce our own, just like we did with alonso (he came to us when he was 22/23)!!

Why are you putting two exclamation marks after every sentence?

AlvaroRecoba
25-4-11, 13:20
We've always talked about how Alonso's departure left us falling apart right in front of our eyes. He was what everything revolved around, he was in the engine room, he was our playmaker!

The thing with the 08/09 team, was that we had an incredibly strong spine, of which the season was built on!! We've got a great spine again, but don't you think if we get a PROPER replacement for alonso, how much better off we would be!!

And i'm not talking about charlie adam! Nor am i talking about aquilani!

One of the main problems with the 08/09 season, was that we lacked strength/depth. We can definitely solve that problem now, with hopefully the sales of several of the dead wood, the buys of 5/6 quality players, and with the additions of several youngsters in and around the squad, making their impact, throughout the course of the season!!

And i would play him alongside gerrard in central midfield, against the relegation threatened sides - I repeat against relegation threatened sides - playing an attacking and high pressured game - like against Bham - and aim to batter those team 4/5-0 (we won't do it all the time - but we can try :D - rather than risk drawing/losing like we've done, over the past decade)!! We know how beat the big teams, it time we beat the smaller teams and then we're champions - simples!!

I don't think people have really ever considered this before as they just assume that we will never replace him, and have the mentality (caused by H+G :mad: ) that we can't afford it!! It's almost like "oh aquilani failed" (He was just never an alonso type player anyway and injury proned), who was alonso's initial replacement, and that was that!!

I wouldn't say that we will ever be able to get a ready-made replacement - unless we're in the CL - but we can go for a young (aged 21/22/23), whose got the talent/potential to be that type of player and aim to nurture him to hopefully a worldclass talent!! I know that people will object and think, we don't want to play a youngsters having to adapt or whatever!! Well i'd think there a HUGE chance of youngsters being involved next season anyway (U18/Reserves in England is VERY different from PL football btw - the kids have to adapt just as much as foreign players), this player could be another one!!

And plus, wouldn't you rather do that with a younger player, than cry about lack of creativity we may end up having - IN DEEP CENTRAL MIDFIELD!!

If we can get another TOP wide midfield player (Mata/Sanchez/Hazard - would be bliss - probably won't happen but who knows), add a winger (just one), LB, CB would do!!!

You annoy me.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 13:21
Why do people get so caught up in possession stats? Possession could be passing it round the back four. Invariably, a midfield doesnt have minutes of possession passing it around, usually they get it forward and attack.


Barca had more possession than Real and lost.
Yeah, and that's in a one off game!! And we're talking about having the ambition to go on and win the league title here - OVER 38 LEAGUE GAMES!! You can't fluke that, you've got to have the quality!!

We need to give ourselves the best chance, keep possession and dominate games. And you know exactly what i mean by having possession....I've mentioned it slightly on my OP!! Attack with possession, dominate games, and play a high pressured game.

Also, i want us to play good football too - it gives a better chance than not - and when we do get back into the CL, challenge the best!! And show what we're made of!

GGEnron
25-4-11, 13:22
I don't get why you say we shouldn't keep Spearing, he's been improving for every game he has played, and is really looking to getting settled playing with the first team. I like Spearing, and I think he's going to be one of the greats one day.

Liverdinner
25-4-11, 13:22
Yeah, and that's in a one off game!! And we're talking about having the ambition to go on and win the league title here - OVER 38 LEAGUE GAMES!! You can't fluke that, you've got to have the quality!!

We need to give ourselves the best chance, keep possession and dominate games. And you know exactly what i mean by having possession....I've mentioned it slightly on my OP!! Attack with possession, dominate games, and play a high pressured game.

Also, i want us to play good football too - it gives a better chance than not - and when we do get back into the CL, challenge the best!! And show what we're made of!

Keeping possession is fine, but possession stats on their own mean nothing.

-Gola-
25-4-11, 13:25
Lucas is fine for that.

What we really need is someone who can keep the ball and offer a passing option.

Not really, he's done excellent this season but against the physical lesser sides he has struggled badly, west brom was a good example of this recently.

We need one of those French African types in the middle, m'villa has been talked about a lot an he'd be ideal for the role, just give us some more steel in the middle of the pitch

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 13:28
Lets buy somebody who has more attacking attributes than Xabi, and let Lucas or somebody else protect the defence like Xabi would.
I want a Xabi type player to prtect the defence against the lesser sides that we badly fail to win consistantly against - just want us to add as much creativity as possible (and play a high pressured game and win the ball back ASAP).

Meireles/Gerrard/Shelvy are slightly more attacking than a "xabi" type player!!
And we've got someone like suarez playing the number 10 role (or out wide)

Barnseysleftpeg
25-4-11, 13:28
No we don't!!

I'm inclined to believe that Shelvey is one who is being groomed for this role. He likes to dictate play when plays for England U19 however being a young lad he's not been able to do it for the LFC first team as yet.

Liverdinner
25-4-11, 13:30
I want a Xabi type player to prtect the defence against the lesser sides that we badly fail to win consistantly against - just want us to add as much creativity as possible (and play a high pressured game and win the ball back ASAP).

Meireles/Gerrard/Shelvy are slightly more attacking than a "xabi" type player!!
And we've got someone like suarez playing the number 10 role (or out wide)

But Gerrard is a bit old now and Meireles isnt creative so wed lack that in our midfield.

aRandomNameHere
25-4-11, 13:34
I really don't know if Xabi would match Kennys style of play, we seem to play a far more direct pass and move style. I think we need quicker players more than anything. I see players like Young and Lennon mentioned and I can see that is probably the way he'd want to work the team. Classic quick counter attacking

Hatake
25-4-11, 13:56
I'm confused as to why people think we aren't playing pass and move football anymore or counter attacking? What kind of football are we playing? Also this isn't Kenny's team either, he might well be looking to buy a midfield playmaker, I thought that was why we were trying to get Adam in January? Speculating that Xabi wouldn't fit into a Kenny team is pointless, because Xabi is world class and I can't see him not being able to adapt.

He's doing just as well if not better at Real Madrid now, do they play the same football as us? They get a huge amount of their goals from through balls that split defenses with Dí Maria's and Ronaldo's pace a major factor. If we are looking to get wingers, I can't see how Xabi wouldn't fit in the team with the option to hit it long to Carroll, or play run on balls out wide to pacey wingers. This is all hypothetical of course.

KeemI
25-4-11, 14:06
I hate when people think that is dominating!!

He was fantastic against Bham, but he did his defensive job, and his passing was good, but he did not control the game - look at the possession stats - neither did he dictate the pace of the game and HE IS NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD WHEN PASSING THE BALL!!

The thing people fail to understand, is when it comes passing th ball of that quality - you've either got it or you don't!!

YOU DON'T LEARN THAT AT THE AGE OF 23!! You should already have that in your locker when you're 12/13 years old!!


Lucas is a very good passer of the ball...he makes defence splitting passes and his pas completion rate is favourable...

jonsonos
25-4-11, 14:14
Lets buy somebody who has more attacking attributes than Xabi, and let Lucas or somebody else protect the defence like Xabi would.

Stevie next to Lucas, job done...

que-sera-sera
25-4-11, 14:18
Stevie next to Lucas, job done...

This^

meireles could play the stevie g role behind a front 1 or 2.

Fowi
25-4-11, 14:18
Sahin will leave Dortmund for £6mil and it pains me that he probably won't sign for us.

Target-Man
25-4-11, 14:43
I am not really in any hurry to buy a proper Alonso replacement.

As things stand, Kenny seems to favour some kind of version of a 4-4-2 and in that formation, we will probably need good central midfielders with a high work rate. Effort does count for something in football, after all.

We're not really short on central midfielders, so getting more players for that position means getting rid of players that are doing well at the moment. Lucas, Gerrard, Meireles, Spearing have all shown that they can play in central midfield - even if the jury is still out on Gerrard's best position - and Shelvey is more of a central midfielder than a right midfielder. Cole prefers a central role too.

I suspect that the creative reinforcements that we will be looking at this summer will be in the wide positions. That will lessen the need for such reinforcements in the centre of midfield, and this season we have been better served by drive and hard work than by silky skills. Indeed, while Stevie might still be our most creative central midfielder, some of our best games have been without him in the centre.

Liverdinner
25-4-11, 14:46
Stevie next to Lucas, job done...

If Stevie is up to it then that would do. Thought id hesitate at dropping Raul.

GordonBennett
25-4-11, 14:55
Personally,


Lucas/Gerrard/Spearing + M'Vila (2 of them sitting)

Gerrard/Meireles (in front of them)

is solid enough.

jonsonos
25-4-11, 15:16
If Stevie is up to it then that would do. Thought id hesitate at dropping Raul.

I think thats what Kenny seems to be favouring, granted thats only an assumption from the games Stevie has been fit for since he came in, but thats where he has played, we seem to be developing a system where we have a back 4 a midfield 2 and a fluid 4 in front, ok it could just be a case of thats what we are doing now and when Kenny gets the players he wants it may change but a big feature of our team has been that midfield 2 creating a solid base for the 4 infront, Jay is partnering Lucas at the minute but when fit it has been Stevie, its a more disciplined role for him but he seemed to be doing well there, it will take some adapting for him and he cant quite be the all action player he was but with better forwards i dont see a problem, he will still have licence to get forward at times.

As far as Raul is concerned when they have both played Stevie has been the one in the midfield 2 with Lucas and Raul is the one with the freedom to move around, maybe thats what Kenny see's as his role for us.

I like the system we are developing, its not quite 4-2-3-1, its not quite 4-4-2 and its not quite 4-4-1-1, its very fluid but its all built up on a solid 2 in midfield much like the 4-2-3-1 is, i cant see to much of a problem if we see stevie in that 2 with Lucas particuly when we get a proper left back and Johnson is back so we have a good attacking threat from the full backs combined with the 4 attacking players just going out and playing.

Stevie could just as easy be one of the 4 attacking players but im just thinking deeper is where Kenny seems to favour him in his team, as he gets older which to be blunt is happening now it makes sense.

PHIL.
25-4-11, 15:17
I honestly think that Aquilani would fit our style of play more now, alongside Lucas.

Whether he will come back is another question.

It's hard to want to replace Raul in the first team lineup, but the fact that we would have these difficulties would only be a good thing.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 15:19
Lucas is a very good passer of the ball...he makes defence splitting passes and his pas completion rate is favourable...
Just admit it - his passing is average
Plus he's a defensive midfielder :FP: Not a creative one

StevieBaros17
25-4-11, 15:22
I seem to rememember in an Europa game this season, the opposition started and kept possession from kick off for close to 1 minute. And bang. Joe Cole's scored with our first touch of the game. Wonder what was the possession stats like when Joe scored. :D

kop144
25-4-11, 15:25
Don't Forget about Aqua. (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/don-t-forget-about-aqua)

bestituta
25-4-11, 15:30
Sahin will leave Dortmund for £6mil and it pains me that he probably won't sign for us.

Most similar to Alonso that is out there.

Personally I think he really good footballing centre half and a better passing/goal scoring centre midfielder would be a better way to go. Xabi is a great footballer but he does not score enough.

Liverdinner
25-4-11, 15:34
I think thats what Kenny seems to be favouring, granted thats only an assumption from the games Stevie has been fit for since he came in, but thats where he has played, we seem to be developing a system where we have a back 4 a midfield 2 and a fluid 4 in front, ok it could just be a case of thats what we are doing now and when Kenny gets the players he wants it may change but a big feature of our team has been that midfield 2 creating a solid base for the 4 infront, Jay is partnering Lucas at the minute but when fit it has been Stevie, its a more disciplined role for him but he seemed to be doing well there, it will take some adapting for him and he cant quite be the all action player he was but with better forwards i dont see a problem, he will still have licence to get forward at times.

As far as Raul is concerned when they have both played Stevie has been the one in the midfield 2 with Lucas and Raul is the one with the freedom to move around, maybe thats what Kenny see's as his role for us.

I like the system we are developing, its not quite 4-2-3-1, its not quite 4-4-2 and its not quite 4-4-1-1, its very fluid but its all built up on a solid 2 in midfield much like the 4-2-3-1 is, i cant see to much of a problem if we see stevie in that 2 with Lucas particuly when we get a proper left back and Johnson is back so we have a good attacking threat from the full backs combined with the 4 attacking players just going out and playing.

Stevie could just as easy be one of the 4 attacking players but im just thinking deeper is where Kenny seems to favour him in his team, as he gets older which to be blunt is happening now it makes sense.

I think your observations are right, Kenny does seem to use that system. And I guess with it being fluid, incorporating Stevie should not be too tough

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 15:34
I am not really in any hurry to buy a proper Alonso replacement.

As things stand, Kenny seems to favour some kind of version of a 4-4-2 and in that formation, we will probably need good central midfielders with a high work rate. Effort does count for something in football, after all.

We're not really short on central midfielders, so getting more players for that position means getting rid of players that are doing well at the moment. Lucas, Gerrard, Meireles, Spearing have all shown that they can play in central midfield - even if the jury is still out on Gerrard's best position - and Shelvey is more of a central midfielder than a right midfielder. Cole prefers a central role too.

I suspect that the creative reinforcements that we will be looking at this summer will be in the wide positions. That will lessen the need for such reinforcements in the centre of midfield, and this season we have been better served by drive and hard work than by silky skills. Indeed, while Stevie might still be our most creative central midfielder, some of our best games have been without him in the centre.

Well don't you think it's partly due to KK just making best use of the personal that he has at his disposal??? He's gotta get results now hasn't he?

We have many midfield options who are athletic and that's great coz it gives the team something. But for you to say he wouldn't be able fit in quality players, for you to say he wouldn't wanna include players who have better quality on the ball that the players we have currently, and for you to say he wouldn't prefer players who are are better at keeping the ball and dictating play than the players we have now is ridiculous!!

Back in that late 80s team in the team KK built, he had Jan Molby in the middle of the park, and you couldn't possibly find a player more closer to Alonso in his type of play than Jan Molby. KK has shown interest in Charlie Adam whose style of play is similar to Alonso too. I think an alonso player would suit his play - he can fit anyone in who has quality. And alonso type player would also offer us something we don't have - wouldn't you want that??!!


I'm confused as to why people think we aren't playing pass and move football anymore or counter attacking? What kind of football are we playing? Also this isn't Kenny's team either, he might well be looking to buy a midfield playmaker, I thought that was why we were trying to get Adam in January? Speculating that Xabi wouldn't fit into a Kenny team is pointless, because Xabi is world class and I can't see him not being able to adapt.

He's doing just as well if not better at Real Madrid now, do they play the same football as us? They get a huge amount of their goals from through balls that split defenses with Dí Maria's and Ronaldo's pace a major factor. If we are looking to get wingers, I can't see how Xabi wouldn't fit in the team with the option to hit it long to Carroll, or play run on balls out wide to pacey wingers. This is all hypothetical of course.

Agree

slimman
25-4-11, 15:37
I don't get why you say we shouldn't keep Spearing, he's been improving for every game he has played, and is really looking to getting settled playing with the first team. I like Spearing, and I think he's going to be one of the greats one day.

I love that Jay has improved immensely under Kenny and the run of games is certainly doing him the world of good. I just don't see him forcing his way into the side if everyone is fit.

He'll be good as a squad player but i'm not sure he's a regular starter for me and with that i'm not sure he'll settle for a squad role when he could perhaps be playing regularly somewhere else.

Maybe the fact he's a local boy who's made it will make him wait around and savour every game when he does play. With injuries and suspensions he could get a couple of starting games a year.

LiverpoolRealist
25-4-11, 15:41
We've got one, goes by the name of Lucas Leiva.

:FP:

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 15:47
I love that Jay has improved immensely under Kenny and the run of games is certainly doing him the world of good. I just don't see him forcing his way into the side if everyone is fit.

He'll be good as a squad player but i'm not sure he's a regular starter for me and with that i'm not sure he'll settle for a squad role when he could perhaps be playing regularly somewhere else.

Maybe the fact he's a local boy who's made it will make him wait around and savour every game when he does play. With injuries and suspensions he could get a couple of starting games a year.

I agree

I can tell what people are thinking with jay - he can be a good squad option.
I don't think that's how we should think. All of our players should be able to compete with a first team position when everyone is fit! Why not have another player into the squad instead of jay, who is better and can compete more with steven gerrard and the likes.

Look at Park ji sung - he's not neccesserily an immediate first choice player - but he could compete with it no problem!! He's got quality on the ball, got energy, pace...! If he remained in the starting 11 for Utd for 6 weeks say, with everyone fit, NO ONE will be surprised - he's a quality player.

I think a lot of us have to get out of this mentality where players, who are squad options - and have no chance of being in the starting 11 when everyone's fit - is a good thing for this club!! We have got some money to spend to buy decent players!

Instead, why not have youth players, who is in and around the squad, still developing (jay isn't one of those, he trains at melwood) who plays those roles. No proper first team seniors should be like that - jay is a first team senior!!

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 15:49
:FP:

I know!
I never thought i would have a response like that when i made the thread
Never mind in the first post :FP:

:D:D

tony220JDM
25-4-11, 16:03
Lucas is very simlar to alonso role these days he very quick to start plays theses days, he might not be best passer out the 2 but hes alot quicker on hes feet these days, so need to replace now when our team is playing the football we all like.

TeenageMutantNinJaSkrtel
25-4-11, 16:08
I hate when people think that is dominating!!

He was fantastic against Bham, but he did his defensive job, and his passing was good, but he did not control the game - look at the possession stats - neither did he dictate the pace of the game and HE IS NOWHERE NEAR AS GOOD WHEN PASSING THE BALL!!

The thing people fail to understand, is when it comes passing th ball of that quality - you've either got it or you don't!!

YOU DON'T LEARN THAT AT THE AGE OF 23!! You should already have that in your locker when you're 12/13 years old!!

Stats can be manipulated. He is the best defensive/holding midfielder in the league this season, and under Kenny, and with Jay playing beside him, he has got licence and is getting forward a little more, especially at home. It's seems Kenny is encouraging this, and as he grows more in confidence and stature, it will only get better.

I think it has helped him along with Carra and Skrtel now being solid behind him.

One thing he needs to work on is his shooting, or at least getting into more position's to have a pop.

There is nothing wrong with his passing at all.

WineForMyMen
25-4-11, 16:13
I can't believe the amount of people this season who have suggested that CM is not a priority for improvement.

2 years ago we had 3 world class CMs and Lucas.

Now we have:

Lucas - much improved, but hardly a world beater
Spearing - tries hard, filled a gap, but not a LFC starter
Shelvey - young, talented, but very raw
Gerrard - past his peak and now picking up regular injuries
Meireles - grand
Poulsen - crap

jamiechloe
25-4-11, 16:13
We should look into signing a centre mid, yes.

He doesn't need to play like Alonso though.

totally agree with this, what is with this obsession with finding a clone of Alonso, yes he was great for that season and the gerrard torres partnership needed that but that doesnt exist anymore so we dont need a alonso type we just need quality CM who can tackle, pass and ocassionaly chip in with some goals

jonron
25-4-11, 16:16
You only need an Alonso replacement if we play in the same style as we did in 08-09....but we dont.

Kennys style is built on perpetual, quick, pass and move football. Xabi is very good at launching counter attacks and spreading play but thats not our style anymore.

While it would be great to have an Alonso style player in the squad, its not as vital as he once was for us.



agree with this 100%

-Bodie-
25-4-11, 16:19
Lucas has been outstanding in the big games for us this season. But when we come up against very physical teams our midfield is just too easily dominated. A signing or two for CM is definetly needed imo.

Target-Man
25-4-11, 16:19
Well don't you think it's partly due to KK just making best use of the personal that he has at his disposal??? He's gotta get results now hasn't he?

We have many midfield options who are athletic and that's great coz it gives the team something. But for you to say he wouldn't be able fit in quality players, for you to say he wouldn't wanna include players who have better quality on the ball that the players we have currently, and for you to say he wouldn't prefer players who are are better at keeping the ball and dictating play than the players we have now is ridiculous!!

Back in that late 80s team in the team KK built, he had Jan Molby in the middle of the park, and you couldn't possibly find a player more closer to Alonso in his type of play than Jan Molby. KK has shown interest in Charlie Adam whose style of play is similar to Alonso too. I think an alonso player would suit his play - he can fit anyone in who has quality. And alonso type player would also offer us something we don't have - wouldn't you want that??!!



Agree

Well, if you put it like that, it is ridiculous, but that would be true of any manager. If you ask Guardiola if he would like midfielders that were better at keeping the ball and dictating play than the ones he has now, he would say yes too. He would just have a hard time finding them.

I just don't think that central midfield is the main priority at the moment, and while it may be true that Kenny is doing his best with the players he has now, the fact that he is doing very well with them should figure into the calculation.

Adam might fit the bill for a creative central midfielder, and he is used to playing in England. Fine, if we get him. But much would depend on the price, and getting a straight Alonso replacement would not be the best use of £20+m at the moment, as I see it. However, much depends on how the market looks in the summer.

But just ask yourself: If we got a creative central midfielder at the expense of getting a creative winger, wouldn't you be a bit disappointed? If we can get both, then it's fine. But if one has to come at the expense of the other, I would certainly aim for someone to play the wide areas, where we've mostly been fielding players taken from other positions - and where the most obvious options, Maxi and Kuyt, have both turned 30.

That Kenny seems to favour a 4-4-2 as a long term option rather than just an immediate fix is based on him choosing to play with two strikers even when other options were open. After all, he chose to play Kuyt as a striker rather than on the right when the preferred striking partnership of Suarez and Carroll was broken up by injury. If he had not prioritized playing two strikers, he could just as well have used Kuyt on the right, Maxi on the left and Meireles just behind Suarez the way he did in the beginning.

jonsonos
25-4-11, 16:22
I think your observations are right, Kenny does seem to use that system. And I guess with it being fluid, incorporating Stevie should not be too tough

True, I would still like another good midfielder to arrive in the summer, i just don't think he necessarily needs to be a nailed on starter, a good young all round athletic midfielder with good potential would do nicely.

Themessangernr1
25-4-11, 16:24
well theres one but i doubt spurs would sell him. Modric. then theres very few deep lying playmakers like alonso out there.pirlo is too old.

Vanoord
25-4-11, 16:33
(i) Not sure what formation we're going to settle on, but I don't think there's necessarily a role for an Alonso in it
(ii) Alonsos aren't easy to find
(iii) We need to strengthen other areas of the squad much more urgently

Roshi98
25-4-11, 16:34
Not really, he's done excellent this season but against the physical lesser sides he has struggled badly, west brom was a good example of this recently.

We need one of those French African types in the middle, m'villa has been talked about a lot an he'd be ideal for the role, just give us some more steel in the middle of the pitch

Against West Brom he had a newborn at home probably keeping him to two hours of sleep a night. Life outside the pitch sometimes has a way of affecting performance, after all.

If anything that match was the fluke in his season whereas the norm has been as an exceptionally tenacious and tough holding midfielder.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 16:35
Stats can be manipulated. He is the best defensive/holding midfielder in the league this season, and under Kenny, and with Jay playing beside him, he has got licence and is getting forward a little more, especially at home. It's seems Kenny is encouraging this, and as he grows more in confidence and stature, it will only get better.

I think it has helped him along with Carra and Skrtel now being solid behind him.

One thing he needs to work on is his shooting, or at least getting into more position's to have a pop.

There is nothing wrong with his passing at all.
Yeah, but it's nothing spectacular!!

We need Top/world class talent at a creative midfield role

LUCAS IS NOT A CREATIVE MIDFIELDER - STOP MAKING IT OUT LIKE HE IS!!
He's a defensive midfielder

He's passing is not really creative - fair enough i'm not asking him to :rolleyes:
We just need someone who is

He is NOTHING like alonso!!

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 16:38
totally agree with this, what is with this obsession with finding a clone of Alonso, yes he was great for that season and the gerrard torres partnership needed that but that doesnt exist anymore so we dont need a alonso type we just need quality CM who can tackle, pass and ocassionaly chip in with some goals

.........And someone who can control the midfield and dictate the pace of the game!! We don't have ANYONE who can do

Target-Man
25-4-11, 16:41
I can't believe the amount of people this season who have suggested that CM is not a priority for improvement.

2 years ago we had 3 world class CMs and Lucas.

Now we have:

Lucas - much improved, but hardly a world beater
Spearing - tries hard, filled a gap, but not a LFC starter
Shelvey - young, talented, but very raw
Gerrard - past his peak and now picking up regular injuries
Meireles - grand
Poulsen - crap

I personally don't think we had 3 world class CMs two years ago. I've always felt that Mascherano was a bit overrated, and once he was without players like Alonso around him it showed. When given more responsibility for creating something in midfield, his severe limitations showed. He excelled at chasing down opponents at a full speed, but when in possession he mostly had a knack for doing the obvious, for hanging on to the ball for too long and for turning straight into opponents. Lucas is a better player for us now than Mascherano was last season.

I think we are weaker in midfield than two seasons ago, but really not more than it could be compensated by adding more talent elsewhere.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 16:51
Well, if you put it like that, it is ridiculous, but that would be true of any manager. If you ask Guardiola if he would like midfielders that were better at keeping the ball and dictating play than the ones he has now, he would say yes too. He would just have a hard time finding them.

I just don't think that central midfield is the main priority at the moment, and while it may be true that Kenny is doing his best with the players he has now, the fact that he is doing very well with them should figure into the calculation.

Adam might fit the bill for a creative central midfielder, and he is used to playing in England. Fine, if we get him. But much would depend on the price, and getting a straight Alonso replacement would not be the best use of £20+m at the moment, as I see it. However, much depends on how the market looks in the summer.

But just ask yourself: If we got a creative central midfielder at the expense of getting a creative winger, wouldn't you be a bit disappointed? If we can get both, then it's fine. But if one has to come at the expense of the other, I would certainly aim for someone to play the wide areas, where we've mostly been fielding players taken from other positions - and where the most obvious options, Maxi and Kuyt, have both turned 30.

That Kenny seems to favour a 4-4-2 as a long term option rather than just an immediate fix is based on him choosing to play with two strikers even when other options were open. After all, he chose to play Kuyt as a striker rather than on the right when the preferred striking partnership of Suarez and Carroll was broken up by injury. If he had not prioritized playing two strikers, he could just as well have used Kuyt on the right, Maxi on the left and Meireles just behind Suarez the way he did in the beginning.

I'm not saying that CM is our first choice priority - but i think it's big enough priority that we do need one!

Like in the OP, buy a young player (aged 21/22/23), he is not necceserily gonna cost £20m IMO!! I think we can easily buy a fantastoc young player in the region of £10-15m

Do what we did with alonso - buy him on the cheap and produce a fantastic talent!

I just don't think we have enough quality in CM!!
Like "WineForMyMen" said, for people to think the quality in midfield is suffice is astounding!! At this moment in time we're winning, but as soon as we lose a game people WILL start questioning some of the players!

Just look at the QUALITY of the midfield before as oppose to now - regardless of our style of play - it is not good enough! I think some of the fans are being naive - thinking all of a sudden this midfield who could barely dominate possession is now all perfect!

I just think we need ONE more CM who can dictate the pace of the midfield, who can add a lil bit of creativity and that little bit of class that we're lacking!!

We need to have a certain amount of quality in the team/squad, so that it is sustained long enough for us to hopefully win the title soon

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 17:00
(i) Not sure what formation we're going to settle on, but I don't think there's necessarily a role for an Alonso in it
(ii) Alonsos aren't easy to find
(iii) We need to strengthen other areas of the squad much more urgently

(i) Any formation (apart from 442) - 433/4231/4312 - we can still play in our flexible systems that kenny adopts

The thing is we don't have any player who can just that lil bit of something different that an "alonso" type player would give!! That lil bit of control from midfield that we are lacking

(ii) I'm not saying we should get a player EXACTLY like alonso!! I'm only mentioning alonso coz he's worldclass, and we know what he can offer! I'm just talking about some of the attributes that he offere and no one else in the team can!! We're only alright with the midfield now coz we're winning!! We all know when we lose, there are players who are gonna get a lot of stick - and it'll be too late!!

(iii) Wide position and LB i would say that we are in more urgent need of - And maybe CB! Why can't we prioritise this after that - we need 5/6 players. Again don't be naive in thinking that everything is perfect JUST coz we're winning at this moment in time. We will still need to spend and buy several players

Roshi98
25-4-11, 17:02
We don't NEED a squad of world beaters, what we need is a mix of solid performers with world class who all have a solid understanding of each other's strengths and will bust their butts to support one another. This false notion that the likes of Barca and Chelsea have fostered that the only path to success is to field top dollar is ridiculous and ultimately unsustainable. It's worked for Barca, not so much for Chelski.

Is Lucas world class? Probably not, but he's certainly league class. There's no denying that under Kenny (and even under Roy) he's become a formidable opponent to build ups in the midfield. There's no club coming in against him that underestimates his tenacity and heart anymore.

What this thread seems to propose is that we'll only be good enough if we spend all of our money on the best and then worry about cobbling together a team after the fact. No. This just isn't our way anymore. We'll spend when we need to spend but always with an eye on building success with players who fit into the system, not buying it outright like Citeh (look how that's turned out for them) and hoping it all works out. If players prove themselves on the pitch, as Lucas has, then why throw out that talent for an unknown entity that disrupts that success?

RedBaros
25-4-11, 17:09
Daniel De Rossi to replace Alonso?

Target-Man
25-4-11, 17:18
I'm not saying that CM is our first choice priority - but i think it's big enough priority that we do need one!

Like in the OP, buy a young player (aged 21/22/23), he is not necceserily gonna cost £20m IMO!! I think we can easily buy a fantastoc young player in the region of £10-15m

Do what we did with alonso - buy him on the cheap and produce a fantastic talent!

I just don't think we have enough quality in CM!!
Like "WineForMyMen" said, for people to think the quality in midfield is suffice is astounding!! At this moment in time we're winning, but as soon as we lose a game people WILL start questioning some of the players!

Just look at the QUALITY of the midfield before as oppose to now - regardless of our style of play - it is not good enough! I think some of the fans are being naive - thinking all of a sudden this midfield who could barely dominate possession is now all perfect!

I just think we need ONE more CM who can dictate the pace of the midfield, who can add a lil bit of creativity and that little bit of class that we're lacking!!

We need to have a certain amount of quality in the team/squad, so that it is sustained long enough for us to hopefully win the title soon

For years our central midfield was better than Man Utd's, but look who won the titles.

I personally don't want a midfield that dominates possession. I want a midfield that passes the ball aggressively and quickly and is not afraid of losing it. We've usually been at our best with around 50% possession, and when we've had 60+% we've usually been quite harmless. Dominating possession is not a goal in itself, and it has often not lead to the desired end. And besides, if we added pace and skill on the wings, we would be likely to get more out of possession than we do now.

Yes, another Alonso would be great, but only if he would play the right kind of football and not hang on to the ball for too long.

But our current central midfield is sufficient - not great, but sufficient - for the moment, and it will do the job if we get more creativity on the wings.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 17:19
We don't NEED a squad of world beaters, what we need is a mix of solid performers with world class who all have a solid understanding of each other's strengths and will bust their butts to support one another. This false notion that the likes of Barca and Chelsea have fostered that the only path to success is to field top dollar is ridiculous and ultimately unsustainable. It's worked for Barca, not so much for Chelski.

Is Lucas world class? Probably not, but he's certainly league class. There's no denying that under Kenny (and even under Roy) he's become a formidable opponent to build ups in the midfield. There's no club coming in against him that underestimates his tenacity and heart anymore.

What this thread seems to propose is that we'll only be good enough if we spend all of our money on the best and then worry about cobbling together a team after the fact. No. This just isn't our way anymore. We'll spend when we need to spend but always with an eye on building success with players who fit into the system, not buying it outright like Citeh (look how that's turned out for them) and hoping it all works out. If players prove themselves on the pitch, as Lucas has, then why throw out that talent for an unknown entity that disrupts that success?

I agree with this totally!!

But you can still look at my post about Park ji sung (post 51) and see another way of looking at it!!

For people to say that CM is not a priority is naive!!
In Deep CM, we've got gerrard who you could still regard as a top class player, but that is it!! I would regard Meireles as an Attacking Midfielder!! Shelvy is an attacking midfielder!!

All we've got in Deep CM is gerrard/lucas/spearing and at push when they're injured meireles - but like i said he's more of an AM (pulls out of a lotta tackles to be deeper lying player in the PL)!

Neither Lucas/spearing are "Top class" players. Gerrard is the only one in potentially deeper midfield that is like that

Why not buy another Deep CM, someone who's young-ish, so won't cost a lot and add just that little bit of quality that is missing in CM and offer us something we don't have in the team.

We do need a blend of world class/solid performers - we just don't have that balance in CM at the moment

And don't say that CM is not a priority at the moment, comment - WE NEED 5/6 PLAYERS - FACT!! If the newspapers are to be believed we will buy several players - all i'm saying is that one of them should try and improve CM - that player doesn't have to EXACTLY like alonso, but similar attrinutes to him!! I'm mentioning him in particular coz we know what he's about and what he offers - not some unknown name that half the people won't have watched

hardyards
25-4-11, 17:28
I agree with this totally!!

But you can still look at my post about Park ji sung (post 51) and see another way of looking at it!!

For people to say that CM is not a priority is naive!!
In Deep CM, we've got gerrard who you could still regard as a top class player, but that is it!! I would regard Meireles as an Attacking Midfielder!! Shelvy is an attacking midfielder!!

All we've got in Deep CM is gerrard/lucas/spearing and at push when they're injured meireles - but like i said he's more of an AM (pulls out of a lotta tackles to be deeper lying player in the PL)!

Neither Lucas/spearing are "Top class" players. Gerrard is the only one in potentially deeper midfield that is like that

Why not buy another Deep CM, someone who's young-ish, so won't cost a lot and add just that little bit of quality that is missing in CM and offer us something we don't have in the team.

We do need a blend of world class/solid performers - we just don't have that balance in CM at the moment

And don't say that CM is not a priority at the moment, comment - WE NEED 5/6 PLAYERS - FACT!! If the newspapers are to be believed we will buy several players - all i'm saying is that one of them should try and improve CM - that player doesn't have to EXACTLY like alonso, but similar attrinutes to him!! I'm mentioning him in particular coz we know what he's about and what he offers - not some unknown name that half the people won't have watched

Good grief you've gone a long way round to basically say you want Alonso back. ;)

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 17:29
For years our central midfield was better than Man Utd's, but look who won the titles.

I personally don't want a midfield that dominates possession. I want a midfield that passes the ball aggressively and quickly and is not afraid of losing it. We've usually been at our best with around 50% possession, and when we've had 60+% we've usually been quite harmless. Dominating possession is not a goal in itself, and it has often not lead to the desired end. And besides, if we added pace and skill on the wings, we would be likely to get more out of possession than we do now.

Yes, another Alonso would be great, but only if he would play the right kind of football and not hang on to the ball for too long.

But our current central midfield is sufficient - not great, but sufficient - for the moment, and it will do the job if we get more creativity on the wings.

The reason we didn't win anything is because we did have a strong enough squad - never have done since the 1990. We messed up in the early 90s and by the time we got oursleves together we couldn't compete financially with the others and partly due to the managers!

Before we use to keep possession, but we played deep and defensively - with torres we played counter-attacking football as he is not a great all round player and we used his pace mainly in our gameplan

I'm talking about keeping possesion but still playing a high pressured and attacking game! I'm more interested in getting someone who has better passing ability amd creativity than what we've got currently - read my last post for you to see what i mean by CM quality!

KopWaa
25-4-11, 17:29
Buy Alonso back.

Hatake
25-4-11, 17:30
We don't NEED a squad of world beaters, what we need is a mix of solid performers with world class who all have a solid understanding of each other's strengths and will bust their butts to support one another. This false notion that the likes of Barca and Chelsea have fostered that the only path to success is to field top dollar is ridiculous and ultimately unsustainable. It's worked for Barca, not so much for Chelski.

Is Lucas world class? Probably not, but he's certainly league class. There's no denying that under Kenny (and even under Roy) he's become a formidable opponent to build ups in the midfield. There's no club coming in against him that underestimates his tenacity and heart anymore.

What this thread seems to propose is that we'll only be good enough if we spend all of our money on the best and then worry about cobbling together a team after the fact. No. This just isn't our way anymore. We'll spend when we need to spend but always with an eye on building success with players who fit into the system, not buying it outright like Citeh (look how that's turned out for them) and hoping it all works out. If players prove themselves on the pitch, as Lucas has, then why throw out that talent for an unknown entity that disrupts that success?

I don't know if many people are suggesting that we replace our solid performers with world class players. As that would be unrealistic and uneconomical. The facts are though that we've got some players who do the basics well, but lack that extra special ability to turn games around with individual brilliance, Gerrard has had ability for us for a long time and now we have Suárez.

In my opinion we need more players of that calibre. Real Madrid have Kaka, Ronaldo, Ozil, Dí Maria who all provide that creativity, goals and I don't think anyone can argue that they aren't all world class. Barcelona have Xavi, Iniesta and Messi, no more needs to be said about them. If we expect to be back in the CL late stages in 2 seasons, we're going to need a few of our own. Hazard, Sanchez and Aguero are in that mould, unfortunately they will cost a lot because of it, that in itself is not reason enough not to consider buying them. Going by our owners track record at the Red Sox they aren't afraid of spending big for big names as long as there is value in the purchase.

City are the only team who have recently spent a huge amount. Chelsea did in the past but not so much last summer and it shows. City have improved greatly, though they have yet to gel and become a team. United's lack of spending has shown, but they've been carried through by a good signing and one who was in the form of his life. We all know the story with Arsenal. I don't think things will stay the same this summer, those clubs will spend a bit more and we'll have to do the same, not to maintain our position, but to get it back, so in a view we have more to improve than others.

slimman
25-4-11, 17:31
I agree

I can tell what people are thinking with jay - he can be a good squad option.
I don't think that's how we should think. All of our players should be able to compete with a first team position when everyone is fit! Why not have another player into the squad instead of jay, who is better and can compete more with steven gerrard and the likes.

Look at Park ji sung - he's not neccesserily an immediate first choice player - but he could compete with it no problem!! He's got quality on the ball, got energy, pace...! If he remained in the starting 11 for Utd for 6 weeks say, with everyone fit, NO ONE will be surprised - he's a quality player.

I think a lot of us have to get out of this mentality where players, who are squad options - and have no chance of being in the starting 11 when everyone's fit - is a good thing for this club!! We have got some money to spend to buy decent players!

Instead, why not have youth players, who is in and around the squad, still developing (jay isn't one of those, he trains at melwood) who plays those roles. No proper first team seniors should be like that - jay is a first team senior!!

repped because i like your Park comments :clap:

Hopefully Jay can stay around and we go out and buy another top CM.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 17:40
Good grief you've gone a long way round to basically say you want Alonso back. ;)

All i'm saying is that we've LOTS of players in CM, who can go forward, who are box-to-box like garrard/meireles/shelvy and suarez can play in the number 10 role!!

We need balance - We need players to defend too
But i want them to have quality on the ball too - Don't you want more quality in there!

People keep saying that players like alonso are so hard to find - they don't have to be exactly like alonso tho! Player like scwienstieger (used to be a winger/can attack), but can play a similar role!! Sahin is a player like that - but probably more of goalscorer, Mvila/benega is a DM, but has quality on the ball........! Why not have someone like Defour, probably a player who could possibly be moulded into a deeper CM role (use to sometimes play DM - is dynamic sorta player with quality on the ball).......................

They're not exactly like alonso, but yes i would like a player who could fufil that role! Don't you want someone who can offer that to us - we just don't have enough quality on midfield!!

ReDSar19
25-4-11, 17:40
You only need an Alonso replacement if we play in the same style as we did in 08-09....but we dont.

Kennys style is built on perpetual, quick, pass and move football. Xabi is very good at launching counter attacks and spreading play but thats not our style anymore.

While it would be great to have an Alonso style player in the squad, its not as vital as he once was for us.

this, repped

LiverpoolsFinest
25-4-11, 17:44
Buy Alonso back.

I'd go with this, never realised how much of a big player he was for us until he left :(

Target-Man
25-4-11, 17:45
The reason we didn't win anything is because we did have a strong enough squad - never have done since the 1990. We messed up in the early 90s and by the time we got oursleves together we couldn't compete with the others and partly due to the managers!

Before we use to keep possession, but we played deep and defensively - with torres we played counter-attacking football as he is not a great all round player and we used his pace mainly in our gameplan

I'm talking about keeping possesion but still playing a high pressured and attacking game! I'm more interested in getting someone who has better passing ability amd creativity than what we've got currently - read my last post for you to see what i mean by CM quality!

I understand what you mean by a quality CM, but then you say that we don't have a strong enough squad and that we need 5-6 more players.

Now, the reason I don't name central midfield as a priority is that I don't think we can strengthen the squad enough in other positions if we spend a lot of money in that position.

Chances are that if we bring in 5-6 players to go straight into the first team, we would have to do some exceptional scouting for most of them to be really good.

Unless FSG is going to give Kenny a blank cheque, we will have to make choices. That is what prioritizing is all about – making choices. And if you say that central midfield is a priority, you're saying that your choice is to strengthen here first.

Personally, I don't think central midfield is a priority, because I don't think it is the first area that needs strengthening. At the most, it should be the third area.

We need fullbacks, because currently our only fit fullbacks are teenagers promoted from the reserves, and the first team fullbacks are all injury prone.

We need wingers, because we currently have all of two players who are accustomed to playing on the wing, Maxi and Kuyt, with Cole as a possible but reluctant third.

We might even want to strengthen in central defense where Carragher is getting older, Agger is highly injury prone and Kyrgiakos is probably moving on in the summer.

With all our other needs, I don't really think you can call central midfield a priority. If you want to use the term "priority" for any area that could be strengthened, then that applies to central midfield, that is true - but that is not what the word means.

jamiechloe
25-4-11, 17:49
.........And someone who can control the midfield and dictate the pace of the game!! We don't have ANYONE who can do

which Utd players do that and please dont tell me Carrick??? Which Chelsea player does that????...if we have a midfield that have intelligence, know how to pass the right ball and the right time, has enough about them to get into the box at times and can make a tackle then surely thats good enough..spearing and Lucas have some of those things but id like to see a player who has all that and more importantly is hungry to succeed...

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 18:09
I understand what you mean by a quality CM, but then you say that we don't have a strong enough squad and that we need 5-6 more players.

I already said in a previous post - one of those 5/6 players should be CM!!
LB/CB/Winger/Wide Midfielder/CM........

Now, the reason I don't name central midfield as a priority is that I don't think we can strengthen the squad enough in other positions if we spend a lot of money in that position.

Never said CM was first priority

Chances are that if we bring in 5-6 players to go straight into the first team, we would have to do some exceptional scouting for most of them to be really good.

If the newspapers are to be believed - the owners are willing to spend. If you look at what he's done with the red sox - they owners are willing to spend.
And we will sell players and i think we could EASILY make £25-30m (buy selling 7/8 players - including a few players on loan) and they can invest £30/40/50m

Unless FSG is going to give Kenny a blank cheque, we will have to make choices. That is what prioritizing is all about – making choices. And if you say that central midfield is a priority, you're saying that your choice is to strengthen here first.

This money is coming out of our revenues - not the owners back pockets.
These are early days, they understand they will need to spend a bit of money - this summer they will need to spend more than any other summer - coz it's their first and we're in a dire state squad-wise. Plus if they invest now, they won't have to spend as much next season or the year after!

And they desperately wanna get back into the CL coz they know that's where the money is

Personally, I don't think central midfield is a priority, because I don't think it is the first area that needs strengthening. At the most, it should be the third area.

We need fullbacks, because currently our only fit fullbacks are teenagers promoted from the reserves, and the first team fullbacks are all injury prone
We only need one LB. Give the youngsters a chance - don't assume that they're not good enough - they've done well

We need wingers, because we currently have all of two players who are accustomed to playing on the wing, Maxi and Kuyt, with Cole as a possible but reluctant third.

I think we can sell on Maxi/cole/jova...
And buy one winger, and another wide midfielder - NOW THIS IS NUMBER ONE PRORITY - again leave spaces in the squad for one or two younger players to make their impact - pacheco/suso/sterling

We might even want to strengthen in central defense where Carragher is getting older, Agger is highly injury prone and Kyrgiakos is probably moving on in the summer.

Yes possibly one (But there are players like Wilson/Ayala who i rate and i think KK likes wilson - was a major part in his move here)

There's CB in the reserves - Andre Wisdom - HE WILL MAKE IT!!
I know people say it's priority - and i know exactly why - but i get the feeling we might not

With all our other needs, I don't really think you can call central midfield a priority. If you want to use the term "priority" for any area that could be strengthened, then that applies to central midfield, that is true - but that is not what the word means.

I do think the midfield is a priority coz there is a distinct lack in quality there

EskilJehn
25-4-11, 18:18
Luca Cigarini would fit the bill. He's not really getting the time on the pitch he warrants at Sevilla anyway.

I used to watch him for Napoli - Great passing range and a good free kick taker as well. Decent tackler and looks a bit more mobile than Alonso.

His career seems to have stagnated over the last season or so, but I think he could be great, if he played for a manager, who believes in him. Sevilla have a €8m buy out clause to buy him from Napoli. Judging on how little they've played him, I wouldn't count on them using it.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 18:19
which Utd players do that and please dont tell me Carrick??? Which Chelsea player does that????...if we have a midfield that have intelligence, know how to pass the right ball and the right time, has enough about them to get into the box at times and can make a tackle then surely thats good enough..spearing and Lucas have some of those things but id like to see a player who has all that and more importantly is hungry to succeed...

Utd have Scholes who does that, and carrick too! Carrick isn't consistant in that position but when he's playing well he offers that to them, but scholes is class.

When they are playing, they always play with at east one of them, coz they're that sorta players - sometimes giggs plays there too

Then they have players like fletcher, anderson, gibson, park who have that dynamism, all i'm saying is that we need a lil bit of quality in deeper midfield that lucas and spearing!! Gerrard is the only quality player in that positon

Chelsea don't have anyone that does that anymore - they've gone stale, lacking creativity and that's why they've struggled this season - last season Ballack did that for them!! Was a great passer and just sat alongside essien (who got forward at times)

Chelsea are always gonna do well, coz they have goals in their team - drogba, malouda, anelka, lampard............torres :rolleyes:

They always play with width, power and pace (still the same team mainly that maureen built) and that allows them to overpower teams with their physicality, and like i said they've got goals in them!!

If they win the league, it shows the poor quality of the league - just as much as if utd won it - Arsenal are the only team where you think "yes", they've got quality but don't have the right mentality to go with it - which mean they fail to beat the like of barca aswell (not saying that arsenal are as good but just that they won the home game - it always gives you a chance away!!) but make not mistake a lot of the top teams will spend and it will harder to win the PL next year

Target-Man
25-4-11, 18:23
I do think the midfield is a priority coz there is a distinct lack in quality there

I think your notion of what can be achieved during one transfer window is quite heavily influenced by Football Manager! How likely do you think we are to be able to move so many players without taking a major cut in potential transfer fees?

So if you think central midfield is priority, what number priority should it be?

You say that the wings/wide midfield areas are the first priority. You also say that we need a left fullback. Where does that leave central midfield?

I also find your statements slightly contradictory in some respects: You believe that the (relatively) untried youngsters will be good enough to add the necessary quality to central defense, fullback and wide midfield positions –*these are all areas where our first team squad is either injury prone or not very deep or both – but our central midfield, which has more depth than other areas, cannot live with having Spearing and Shelvey provide the depth.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 18:28
Luca Cigarini would fit the bill. He's not really getting the time on the pitch he warrants at Sevilla anyway.

I used to watch him for Napoli - Great passing range and a good free kick taker as well. Decent tackler and looks a bit more mobile than Alonso.

His career seems to have stagnated over the last season or so, but I think he could be great, if he played for a manager, who believes in him. Sevilla have a €8m buy out clause to buy him from Napoli. Judging on how little they've played him, I wouldn't count on them using it.
Thanx for pointing him out! Might have a little dig on him ;)

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 18:50
I think your notion of what can be achieved during one transfer window is quite heavily influenced by Football Manager! How likely do you think we are to be able to move so many players without taking a major cut in potential transfer fees?

So if you think central midfield is priority, what number priority should it be?

You say that the wings/wide midfield areas are the first priority. You also say that we need a left fullback. Where does that leave central midfield?

I also find your statements slightly contradictory in some respects: You believe that the (relatively) untried youngsters will be good enough to add the necessary quality to central defense, fullback and wide midfield positions –*these are all areas where our first team squad is either injury prone or not very deep or both – but our central midfield, which has more depth than other areas, cannot live with having Spearing and Shelvey provide the depth.
Shelvy isn't a CM, he is an AM, can't you see his athleticism/physicality/pace - he is an AM, not CM

Plus neither spearing/shelvy are what i'm talking about - i'm talking about players that are playing in the reserves/U18s CURENTLY, that are still developing ECT...when that is happening, you always need to allow some pathway of them getting thru - those gap in the squad - to get that opportunity

Even KK mentioned that in his prematch Bham conference!! check it out
He said something like, i will sell players on, to try and prioritise some of the youngsters a lil, and want to play them ahead of the seniors, and give them that opportunity!!

If we had 25 senior players, NO youngster will come thru coz there won't be enough injuries/suspensions for them to be given their opportunity!! Naturally the manager would always prefer to play players who are earning £80,000 - to make use of them!!

KK knows a lot about the accademy players, he knows who he likes and doesn't in the back of his mind

Going back, Shelvy/spearing are first team seniors who train at melwood daily
Flanno/robbo are the players i was talking - they were playing in the reserves, and the circumstances dictated that we need fullbacks and NOW they're first team seniors

I personally don't think spearing is necesserily good enough!! (i think coady will be better)

The only thing with spearing, is that people are thinking of him like he is gonna be a "good squad player", but won't compete with gerrard (or other first team players if the full team were to be fit) we shouldn't necesserily need a senior pro, to play that role for us - flanno/robbo aren't that - they could compete with johnson/kelly from their early form.....but lets just wait and see!!! Also look at my comment of park ji sung on post 51 in what i mean

If we have injuries, we should fall back on youth - to play the odd game when we have injuries - other than, we should have a squad of 20 players who are top quality

Look at our CM - gerrard/lucas/spearing.......tell me we don't need CM

Acornhead
25-4-11, 18:58
We've got one, goes by the name of Lucas Leiva.

He's playing well, well in some games. Still goes missing in some if you ask me, but to compare Lucas to Alonso is a bit too-rose-tinted-glasses. That's like saying Flanagan is going to be the next Jairzinho.

jamiechloe
25-4-11, 18:58
Utd have Scholes who does that, and carrick too! Carrick isn't consistant in that position but when he's playing well he offers that to them, but scholes is class.

When they are playing, they always play with at east one of them, coz they're that sorta players - sometimes giggs plays there too

Then they have players like fletcher, anderson, gibson, park who have that dynamism, all i'm saying is that we need a lil bit of quality in deeper midfield that lucas and spearing!! Gerrard is the only quality player in that positon

Chelsea don't have anyone that does that anymore - they've gone stale, lacking creativity and that's why they've struggled this season - last season Ballack did that for them!! Was a great passer and just sat alongside essien (who got forward at times)


Chelsea are always gonna do well, coz they have goals in their team - drogba, malouda, anelka, lampard............torres :rolleyes:

They always play with width, power and pace (still the same team mainly that maureen built) and that allows them to overpower teams with their physicality, and like i said they've got goals in them!!

If they win the league, it shows the poor quality of the league - just as much as if utd won it - Arsenal are the only team where you think "yes", they've got quality but don't have the right mentality to go with it - which mean they fail to beat the like of barca aswell (not saying that arsenal are as good but just that they won the home game - it always gives you a chance away!!) but make not mistake a lot of the top teams will spend and it will harder to win the PL next year

Utd DID have Scholes, he hasnt that for a while and sorry not having Carrick, manu play down the flanks thats what they do best..as for Dynamism..gibson,anderson, fletcher and park...seriously??????????? chelsea have struggled this season and yet they are 2nd..i wouldnt mind that crisis at our club i gotta be honest!!!

Jazzy-J
25-4-11, 19:02
Has anybody mentioned Javi Martinez yet, despite the fact that, 3 years on, we're still waiting for him to actually turn out to be any good?

RedGedinLA
25-4-11, 19:06
Lucas may be better than Xabi soon - he's more mobile and just as intelligent. IMO

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 19:08
...

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 19:09
Lucas may be better than Xabi soon - he's more mobile and just as intelligent. IMO
:eek: :eek: :eek:

PLEASE PLEASE DON'T GO THERE!! :D

:IN:

Scrams
25-4-11, 19:12
Lucas may be better than Xabi soon - he's more mobile and just as intelligent. IMO

:FP:

More mobile, but he is nowhere near as intelligent as xabi.

He cant control and dictate the tempo of a game like xabi, and dont even start me on xabi's coice of pass, accuracy, vision, technique and application.

He is effective more than anything, good squad player, i still think we can improve on him.

Venantium
25-4-11, 19:13
Its such a myth that we fell apart due to Xabi's departure.

That was just a small reason for our demise in the grand scale of things.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 19:14
:FP:

More mobile, but he is nowhere near as intelligent as xabi.

He cant control and dictate the tempo of a game like xabi, and dont even start me on xabi's coice of pass, accuracy, vision, technique and application.

He is effective more than anything, good squad player, i still think we can improve on him.
i agree!
Was kinda disappointed that he signed a new contract!!
Could've bought someone like Mvila, who's a dynamic DM, but with quality on the ball

Now i have to play football manager, with him in my squad!! :IN:

Liverdinner
25-4-11, 19:17
Its such a myth that we fell apart due to Xabi's departure.

That was just a small reason for our demise in the grand scale of things.

I agree with that. Even during our really good season, I thought we looked flawed; lacking striking cover for Torres, Stevie ageing and no quality out wide.

Bombay Money Lender
25-4-11, 19:24
i agree!
Was kinda disappointed that he signed a new contract!!
Could've bought someone like Mvila, who's a dynamic DM, but with quality on the ball

Now i have to play football manager, with him in my squad!! :IN:

My advice is that you stick to it. Read posts with increasing boredom as you prattle on about turning a young up and coming player into Xabi as if it's something done every day. Would have let it pass until your disparaging remark about being 'kinda disappointed' that Lucas signed a new contract? Why, oh wise one?

Target-Man
25-4-11, 19:43
Shelvy isn't a CM, he is an AM, can't you see his athleticism/physicality/pace - he is an AM, not CM

Plus neither spearing/shelvy are what i'm talking about - i'm talking about players that are playing in the reserves/U18s CURENTLY, that are still developing ECT...when that is happening, you always need to allow some pathway of them getting thru - those gap in the squad - to get that opportunity

Even KK mentioned that in his prematch Bham conference!! check it out
He said something like, i will sell players on, to try and prioritise some of the youngsters a lil, and want to play them ahead of the seniors, and give them that opportunity!!

If we had 25 senior players, NO youngster will come thru coz there won't be enough injuries/suspensions for them to be given their opportunity!! Naturally the manager would always prefer to play players who are earning £80,000 - to make use of them!!

KK knows a lot about the accademy players, he knows who he likes and doesn't in the back of his mind

Going back, Shelvy/spearing are first team seniors who train at melwood daily
Flanno/robbo are the players i was talking - they were playing in the reserves, and the circumstances dictated that we need fullbacks and NOW they're first team seniors

I personally don't think spearing is necesserily good enough!! (i think coady will be better)

The only thing with spearing, is that people are thinking of him like he is gonna be a "good squad player", but won't compete with gerrard (or other first team players if the full team were to be fit) we shouldn't necesserily need a senior pro, to play that role for us - flanno/robbo aren't that - they could compete with johnson/kelly from their early form.....but lets just wait and see!!! Also look at my comment of park ji sung on post 51 in what i mean

If we have injuries, we should fall back on youth - to play the odd game when we have injuries - other than, we should have a squad of 20 players who are top quality

Look at our CM - gerrard/lucas/spearing.......tell me we don't need CM

Several things:

When you mention our central midfielders, why do you leave our Meireles?

And what exactly do you think the difference is between a CM and an AM? If any player looks like he could play in central midfield, it's Jonjo Shelvey. Attacking midfielders are central midfielders (unless you mean wingers or AMRs/AMLs to follow the jargon). It's just Football Manager that has everyone splitting hairs over this. The question is just whether they focus on an attacking or a defensive role.

If you want to split hairs, you can say that Lucas and Spearing are DMs and Gerrard is an AM - again those are the roles these players have mostly played. In that case, you could certainly say that our CM needs strengthening, because we have no CMs at all. Except, if you go by that, we haven't really played with them for years. Alonso was referred to as a DM, so was Mascherano, and so is Lucas.

Shelvey should certainly be counted as part of the depth chart for central midfield, just like WineForMyMen did.

That leaves us with:
Gerrard, Lucas, Meireles, Spearing, Shelvey - and we haven't even talked about Aquilani, who is still technically a Liverpool player.

Incidentally, what is it about Shelvey's athleticism, physicality and pace that makes him unsuited for a central midfield role? :confused:

And just because a player is in the first team squad, it doesn't mean that he is not developing. Spearing is a case in point, Kelly and Shelvey too. It's just that these players have come far enough in their development to play a role in the first team.

Now, if you say that our central midfield could do with some improvement, I am sure that most here would agree with you. But there is a difference between improving and prioritizing. Prioritizing means putting something first.

And when it comes to determining the order in which we need to add reinforcements, it seems to me that a central midfielder would at best be 4th - perhaps 5th - on the list of urgent needs. More immediate needs would be:

- a left fullback
- two wide midfielders
- possibly a goalkeeper if Reina leaves

When those needs are fulfilled, we might want to strengthen central midfield, but that is not prioritizing it.

TruthMayHurt
25-4-11, 19:44
Lets buy somebody who has more attacking attributes than Xabi, and let Lucas or somebody else protect the defence like Xabi would.

Agreed, and better defensive ones for that matter even though Xabi at his best, is among the best at what he does.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 19:50
Several things:

When you mention our central midfielders, why do you leave our Meireles?

And what exactly do you think the difference is between a CM and an AM? If any player looks like he could play in central midfield, it's Jonjo Shelvey. Attacking midfielders are central midfielders (unless you mean wingers or AMRs/AMLs to follow the jargon). It's just Football Manager that has everyone splitting hairs over this. The question is just whether they focus on an attacking or a defensive role.

If you want to split hairs, you can say that Lucas and Spearing are DMs and Gerrard is an AM - again those are the roles these players have mostly played. In that case, you could certainly say that our CM needs strengthening, because we have no CMs at all. Except, if you go by that, we haven't really played with them for years. Alonso was referred to as a DM, so was Mascherano, and so is Lucas.

Shelvey should certainly be counted as part of the depth chart for central midfield, just like WineForMyMen did.

That leaves us with:
Gerrard, Lucas, Meireles, Spearing, Shelvey - and we haven't even talked about Aquilani, who is still technically a Liverpool player.

Incidentally, what is it about Shelvey's athleticism, physicality and pace that makes him unsuited for a central midfield role? :confused:

And just because a player is in the first team squad, it doesn't mean that he is not developing. Spearing is a case in point, Kelly and Shelvey too. It's just that these players have come far enough in their development to play a role in the first team.

Now, if you say that our central midfield could do with some improvement, I am sure that most here would agree with you. But there is a difference between improving and prioritizing. Prioritizing means putting something first.

And when it comes to determining the order in which we need to add reinforcements, it seems to me that a central midfielder would at best be 4th - perhaps 5th - on the list of urgent needs. More immediate needs would be:

- a left fullback
- two wide midfielders
- possibly a goalkeeper if Reina leaves

When those needs are fulfilled, we might want to strengthen central midfield, but that is not prioritizing it.

All i mean with this is that, with Lucas and spearing, we don't have as much quality in Deeper midfield!!

Gerrard can play in that role too!! Meireles just pulls out of too many tackles to play in a deeper role!

I would just like one more player, who can offer a little bit more quality in deeper midfield!!

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 19:51
My advice is that you stick to it. Read posts with increasing boredom as you prattle on about turning a young up and coming player into Xabi as if it's something done every day. Would have let it pass until your disparaging remark about being 'kinda disappointed' that Lucas signed a new contract? Why, oh wise one?
I'm not bothered going into any detail coz this subject has been done to death and there's nothing that can be done about it coz he's gonna stay

I just think we can do a little better than Lucas!

hardyards
25-4-11, 19:52
i agree!
Was kinda disappointed that he signed a new contract!!
Could've bought someone like Mvila, who's a dynamic DM, but with quality on the ball

Now i have to play football manager, with him in my squad!! :IN:

Oops - flies left undone there lad - you have been trying really hard to conceal the fact that you're looking for a stick to bash Lucas with throughout this thread - and still haven't found one that you can substantiate with anything other than repeating your call for a new young Alonso to be found from somewhere to replace him. Move on - the team has. Kenny's in control.


My advice is that you stick to it. Read posts with increasing boredom as you prattle on about turning a young up and coming player into Xabi as if it's something done every day. Would have let it pass until your disparaging remark about being 'kinda disappointed' that Lucas signed a new contract? Why, oh wise one?

This lad has a point.

LucasAintDancin
25-4-11, 19:53
We have Lucas Leiva.. He has the potential to keep improving.. I would rather not spend money on someone like De Rossi(admittedly he is very good) because I want Lucas to keep his place in the team for years to come.
:scarf

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 20:07
Oops - flies left undone there lad - you have been trying really hard to conceal the fact that you're looking for a stick to bash Lucas with throughout this thread - and still haven't found one that you can substantiate with anything other than repeating your call for a new young Alonso to be found from somewhere to replace him. Move on - the team has. Kenny's in control.



This lad has a point.

No, i'm not!!
People keep mentioning Lucas and saying that he is as good as alonso, or could be as good!!

In fact i didn't expect anyone to mention anything like this.......only to look at the very first response :FP:

I've maintained throughout - lucas is a DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER, not a creative one - and don't make it sound like he is!!

I am ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED that people have tried to make that point so continuously through out the thread!! I never realised so many people had red-tinted glasses on!

Saying that isn't as good as alonso ain't neccesserily a bad thing coz alonso is a worldclass player - only a minority of footballers ever become worldclass players

TruthMayHurt
25-4-11, 20:15
No, i'm not!!
People keep mentioning Lucas and saying that he is as good as alonso, or could be as good!!

In fact i didn't expect anyone to mention anything like this.......only to look at the very first response :FP:

I've maintained throughout - lucas is a DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER, not a creative one - and don't make it sound like he is!!

I am ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED that people have tried to make that point so continuously through out the thread!! I never realised so many people had red-tinted glasses on!

Saying that isn't as good as alonso ain't neccesserily a bad thing coz alonso is a worldclass player - only a minority of footballers ever become worldclass players


He could become more useful than Alonso and could also give us two different type of personalities to befit the occasion.

Spearmint16
25-4-11, 20:18
No, i'm not!!
People keep mentioning Lucas and saying that he is as good as alonso, or could be as good!!

In fact i didn't expect anyone to mention anything like this.......only to look at the very first response :FP:

I've maintained throughout - lucas is a DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER, not a creative one - and don't make it sound like he is!!

I am ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED that people have tried to make that point so continuously through out the thread!! I never realised so many people had red-tinted glasses on!

Saying that isn't as good as alonso ain't neccesserily a bad thing coz alonso is a worldclass player - only a minority of footballers ever become worldclass players

Fully agree with you mate. Trying to compare Lucas to Alonso is laughable.

SweetSilverSeven
25-4-11, 20:21
He could become more useful than Alonso and could also give us two different type of personalities to befit the occasion.
I would rather have a player who is outstanding at one aspect!!

Target-Man
25-4-11, 20:44
No, i'm not!!
People keep mentioning Lucas and saying that he is as good as alonso, or could be as good!!

In fact i didn't expect anyone to mention anything like this.......only to look at the very first response :FP:

I've maintained throughout - lucas is a DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER, not a creative one - and don't make it sound like he is!!

I am ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED that people have tried to make that point so continuously through out the thread!! I never realised so many people had red-tinted glasses on!

Saying that isn't as good as alonso ain't neccesserily a bad thing coz alonso is a worldclass player - only a minority of footballers ever become worldclass players

So are you saying that our most consistent and reliable midfielder over the past two seasons is not good enough to play for us?

And why do you think that we need an Alonso type player? Basically, when we had him, we were the only team in the league to have a player like that. More successful teams did fine without a player with his particular qualities. Man Utd never had a player like that, and neither did Chelsea or Arsenal for that matter.

Sure, we missed him after he left, but in Lucas we now have a player who fills that position very well, and I don't see any need for replacing a player, who has earned his place in the Brazil squad on merit and is showing all the signs of becoming a key player for Liverpool for years to come.

For all his qualities, an Alonso type player is not essential for any team to win the Premier League. Indeed, building a team around a player who could not be replaced may have hurt us more in the long run – Alonso's skill set being so relatively rare that we were always going to struggle to find anyone to fill the gap.

TruthMayHurt
25-4-11, 20:50
So are you saying that our most consistent and reliable midfielder over the past two seasons is not good enough to play for us?

And why do you think that we need an Alonso type player? Basically, when we had him, we were the only team in the league to have a player like that. More successful teams did fine without a player with his particular qualities. Man Utd never had a player like that, and neither did Chelsea or Arsenal for that matter.

Sure, we missed him after he left, but in Lucas we now have a player who fills that position very well, and I don't see any need for replacing a player, who has earned his place in the Brazil squad on merit and is showing all the signs of becoming a key player for Liverpool for years to come.

For all his qualities, an Alonso type player is not essential for any team to win the Premier League. Indeed, building a team around a player who could not be replaced may have hurt us more in the long run – Alonso's skill set being so relatively rare that we were always going to struggle to find anyone to fill the gap.

Brilliantly put.

Bombay Money Lender
25-4-11, 21:14
So are you saying that our most consistent and reliable midfielder over the past two seasons is not good enough to play for us?

And why do you think that we need an Alonso type player? Basically, when we had him, we were the only team in the league to have a player like that. More successful teams did fine without a player with his particular qualities. Man Utd never had a player like that, and neither did Chelsea or Arsenal for that matter.

Sure, we missed him after he left, but in Lucas we now have a player who fills that position very well, and I don't see any need for replacing a player, who has earned his place in the Brazil squad on merit and is showing all the signs of becoming a key player for Liverpool for years to come.

For all his qualities, an Alonso type player is not essential for any team to win the Premier League. Indeed, building a team around a player who could not be replaced may have hurt us more in the long run – Alonso's skill set being so relatively rare that we were always going to struggle to find anyone to fill the gap.

Our OP thinks you can manufacture Xabi's, you know like on a conveyor belt. He is a one off and to find a carbon copy would be nigh on impossible and as you say counter productive. Better to familiarise our younger players with the pass and move ethos coupled with the winning mentality they seem to have.

kop96lfc
25-4-11, 22:04
Young Jack from the gunners

Em-inLeam
25-4-11, 23:50
Kenny needs to find us a new Jan Molby.

GordonBennett
25-4-11, 23:53
Has anybody mentioned Javi Martinez yet, despite the fact that, 3 years on, we're still waiting for him to actually turn out to be any good?

I like him. Raul Garcia too.

Potato Red
26-4-11, 16:58
Several things:

When you mention our central midfielders, why do you leave our Meireles?

And what exactly do you think the difference is between a CM and an AM? If any player looks like he could play in central midfield, it's Jonjo Shelvey. Attacking midfielders are central midfielders (unless you mean wingers or AMRs/AMLs to follow the jargon). It's just Football Manager that has everyone splitting hairs over this. The question is just whether they focus on an attacking or a defensive role.

If you want to split hairs, you can say that Lucas and Spearing are DMs and Gerrard is an AM - again those are the roles these players have mostly played. In that case, you could certainly say that our CM needs strengthening, because we have no CMs at all. Except, if you go by that, we haven't really played with them for years. Alonso was referred to as a DM, so was Mascherano, and so is Lucas.

Shelvey should certainly be counted as part of the depth chart for central midfield, just like WineForMyMen did.

That leaves us with:
Gerrard, Lucas, Meireles, Spearing, Shelvey - and we haven't even talked about Aquilani, who is still technically a Liverpool player.

Incidentally, what is it about Shelvey's athleticism, physicality and pace that makes him unsuited for a central midfield role? :confused:

And just because a player is in the first team squad, it doesn't mean that he is not developing. Spearing is a case in point, Kelly and Shelvey too. It's just that these players have come far enough in their development to play a role in the first team.

Now, if you say that our central midfield could do with some improvement, I am sure that most here would agree with you. But there is a difference between improving and prioritizing. Prioritizing means putting something first.

And when it comes to determining the order in which we need to add reinforcements, it seems to me that a central midfielder would at best be 4th - perhaps 5th - on the list of urgent needs. More immediate needs would be:

- a left fullback
- two wide midfielders
- possibly a goalkeeper if Reina leaves

When those needs are fulfilled, we might want to strengthen central midfield, but that is not prioritizing it.

It took four pages of scrolling through this thread to find a post to say 'amen' to. Well said Target-Man!

SweetSilverSeven
26-4-11, 17:52
So are you saying that our most consistent and reliable midfielder over the past two seasons is not good enough to play for us?
I never said he's not good enough, i just think we could do better - I didn't we we needed to sell him this summer. We could've extended he's contract by another 1/2 years - keep him tied up a lil - see what he could do - but i personally don't think he should've gotten, what is reported as a 5-year deal

And why do you think that we need an Alonso type player? Basically, when we had him, we were the only team in the league to have a player like that. More successful teams did fine without a player with his particular qualities. Man Utd never had a player like that, and neither did Chelsea or Arsenal for that matter.

Man utd have Scholes and carrick - carricks a lil bit inconsistant but, he is that sort of player in his style - nowhere near as good, but scholes is class.

Chelsea had Ballack last season who did that - fantastic passer of the ball, and just like scholes, doesn't have the athleticism of his younger days so just sat - that's on of the reasons chelsea are struggling - they're lacking so much creativity and have gone stale. However, chelsea will always do well coz they've got pace/power/strength/width/experience and that alone means they overpower teams. Furthermore, they've got goals in them, drogba, anelka, malouda, kalou, lampard.......... torres :rolleyes: They struggled a lot during the period where nearly all of them were off form/injured

Arsenal have players everywhere who have quality on the ball. Now they've got wilshire, but song/diaby have fantastic quality on the ball - was particularly impressed with song/wilshire against barca (at the emirates), when even when they were under a lot of pressure, they had such close control to keep the ball alot - gave the ball away too, because barca are fantastic at getting the ball back too, but those two were quality on the night!!

Sure, we missed him after he left, but in Lucas we now have a player who fills that position very well, and I don't see any need for replacing a player, who has earned his place in the Brazil squad on merit and is showing all the signs of becoming a key player for Liverpool for years to come.

I STILL DON'T GET WHY PEOPLE COMPARE LUCAS AND ALONSO! I never even wanted it to be a debate about that coz they're COMPLETELY different players - one is a DM, the other is creative player

For all his qualities, an Alonso type player is not essential for any team to win the Premier League. Indeed, building a team around a player who could not be replaced may have hurt us more in the long run – Alonso's skill set being so relatively rare that we were always going to struggle to find anyone to fill the gap.


Our OP thinks you can manufacture Xabi's, you know like on a conveyor belt. He is a one off and to find a carbon copy would be nigh on impossible and as you say counter productive. Better to familiarise our younger players with the pass and move ethos coupled with the winning mentality they seem to have.

This is previous post i wrote

[B]All i'm saying is that we've LOTS of players in CM, who can go forward, who are box-to-box like gerrard/meireles/shelvy and suarez can play in the number 10 role!!

We need balance - We need players to defend too
But i want them to have quality on the ball too - Don't you want more quality in there!

People keep saying that players like alonso are so hard to find - they don't have to be exactly like alonso tho! Player like scwienstieger (used to be a winger/can attack), but can play a similar role!! Sahin is a player like that - but probably more of goalscorer, Mvila/benega are DMs, but have quality on the ball........! Why not have someone like Defour, probably a player who could possibly be moulded into a deeper CM role (use to sometimes play DM - is dynamic sorta player with quality on the ball).......................

They're not exactly like alonso, but yes i would like a player who could fufil that role! Don't you want someone who can offer that to us - we just don't have enough quality on midfield!!

Lucas and Spearing are the only natural deeper lying players - gerrard could play there - is that the quality you wanna depend on!!

Like i said before, people think that this Midfield doesn't need improving on because we've won the last few games - EG: if we draw/lose against newcastle - people have a completely different opinion

Themessangernr1
25-8-12, 12:23
well we finally have one. for atleast a season. i like our midfield of Allen Lucas and Sahin. only the front 3 need sorting. two quality attacking players and we are sorted for this season!