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Syndicato
12-6-11, 21:38
I did confess to never having watched this fella much before, and so today I watched the under-21s to specifically check him (and Jones) out. I must say while it was just one game, I was left scratching my head: is this fella really worth all that cash?

From that one game, he has to be a good student of the way Liverpool wanna play, especially if he is to be Stevie's understudy

Jazzy-J
12-6-11, 21:40
I'm not shocked you started this thread.

I was never Henderson's biggest fan, but this is getting silly now. Of course he's way overpriced, but what's happened has happened. Let's not get carried away with one performance.

Sneets
12-6-11, 21:40
It certainly was not a top performance.

LucasAintDancin
12-6-11, 21:41
He hasn't been given the chance to be coached by Kenny and co yet. I'll reserve my judgement until then.

Paullfc1976
12-6-11, 21:41
Excellent thread, just simply brilliant.

RyanBabylon
12-6-11, 21:41
It certainly was not a top performance.

Would've been hard to put in a "top" performance when he was hardly ever given the ball.

sfsanj
12-6-11, 21:42
Luckily our coaching staff, manager have looked at him for more than 1 game. So don't worry...

From what i've seen he has the technical ability and awareness for the type of system kenny wants. Pass, move...get the ball into dangerous places early.

Skip Bayless
12-6-11, 21:42
I didn't watch the game so I don't know what to tell you.

Judging him after one U21 game is a little silly though especially as it's the first time you've seen him play.

Morsy
12-6-11, 21:42
Would've been hard to put in a "top" performance when he was hardly ever given the ball.

Thank god somebody on here has common sense!

Paullfc1976
12-6-11, 21:43
It certainly was not a top performance.

What he said below.


I'm not shocked you started this thread.

I was never Henderson's biggest fan, but this is getting silly now. Of course he's way overpriced, but what's happened has happened. Let's not get carried away with one performance.

robbieflowerpot
12-6-11, 21:43
It's these internationals, invariably no-one stands out. What he does look is very mobile and athletic and that'll fit well with our ethos. I've no doubt he's a good player as long as he's not being asked to hold, I think.

tonylet
12-6-11, 21:44
Let the mass negging begin. Who's with me?

WineForMyMen
12-6-11, 21:48
Sell him! :mad:

Syndicato
12-6-11, 21:48
I'm not shocked you started this thread.

I was never Henderson's biggest fan, but this is getting silly now. Of course he's way overpriced, but what's happened has happened. Let's not get carried away with one performance.


I do like objective discussions without unnecessary emotion. That's why I had to qualify what I said: I have never really seen much of the fella, and granted it was indeed one game, but frankly, I was underwhelmed, to say the least.

But yeah, to be fair, it was only just one game

Paullfc1976
12-6-11, 21:49
I do like objective discussions without unnecessary emotion. That's why I had to qualify what I said: I have never really seen much of the fella, and granted it was indeed one game, but frankly, I was underwhelmed, to say the least.

But yeah, to be fair, it was only just one game

So why start the thread with the OP you did?

GaryH-21
12-6-11, 21:50
Would've been hard to put in a "top" performance when he was hardly ever given the ball.


Thank god somebody on here has common sense!

If a player isn't interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage, then he should be!

wish0r
12-6-11, 21:50
U21. Lawl. When you see any english international playing for England, you wonder if they're professionals.

Syndicato
12-6-11, 21:50
I didn't watch the game so I don't know what to tell you.

Judging him after one U21 game is a little silly though especially as it's the first time you've seen him play.

I did say it was just one game: I have never really seen the fella play as many times as some here have.... but this one game did not do it for me. I hope he improves much much more in future games...

HIP-KLOPPBEATZ
12-6-11, 21:51
It certainly was not a top performance.

Spain had all the ball, I dont know what you's expected him to do, when he had the ball he used it well, showed a nice range of passing, was unlucky with some and he played a brilliant through ball to Sturridge 2nd half..............Walker was excellent as were Jones and smalling esp at the back. Henderson will be a great signing for us, that Spanish team are wicked esp Martinez, now you know why Rafa was always raving abt him, he reminded me of a young valeron, pure class. Sign him up!

Syndicato
12-6-11, 21:51
So why start the thread with the OP you did?

because I wanted to: you didn't have to read/participate in it if it's not up your street

RyanBabylon
12-6-11, 21:51
If a player isn't interfering with play or seeking to gain an advantage, then he should be!

He did the job he had to do. He's not going to run in and take the ball off of his centre-backs. He got in all the right positions and when he got the ball, he generally used it well.

Paullfc1976
12-6-11, 21:52
because I wanted to: you didn't have to read/participate in it if it's not up your street

So why backtrack?

Syndicato
12-6-11, 21:52
Let the mass negging begin. Who's with me?

go ahead: I love the negs- shows I have a number of 'disciples':D

thanks for the extra red dot, by the way, if it came from you:D

beniboi
12-6-11, 21:52
He didn't do much wrong he just didn't get the chance to do anything wright

kop96lfc
12-6-11, 21:52
Was waiting for a Henderson bashing thread , lets write him off after one game , playing for U21's against spain who were playing keep ball.:FP:

My view think Peace got tactics well wrong , iwould have played Three in the middle most likely a 4-2-3-1 , And Mainciene wouldn't be in my team nevermind captain.

Whatusmoking
12-6-11, 21:53
Lampard always looks naff for England, he seems to do ok at the chavs though!

Syndicato
12-6-11, 21:54
So why backtrack?

get a life: do you know the meaning of that term 'backtrack'?

Look, if you have nothing meaningful to discuss on henderson's performance you are better letting those who want to do so. You are being foolish and immature

Fowi
12-6-11, 21:54
I saw some positive things in his game today. That's good enough for me. As far as I'm concerned the 3-5 games he'll get in this tournament is just another part of his development.

Syndicato
12-6-11, 21:55
Sell him! :mad:

:D

stop it!

Zull
12-6-11, 21:55
Excellent thread, just simply brilliant.

:D

Skip Bayless
12-6-11, 21:55
U21. Lawl. When you see any english international playing for England, you wonder if they're professionals.

This. End thread troll.

When was the last time Rooney looked good for England? Or Lampard? Or Gerrard? etc

Judge him when he puts on a red shirt.

Mike-91
12-6-11, 21:56
I thought he did well. He was getting bypassed a lot by the defenders.

Hard to get into a game, when that happens nearly all the time.

-Bodie-
12-6-11, 21:56
Was waiting for her (http://images.wikia.com/mrmen/images/5/5c/Miss_Fickle.jpg)to start a thread anytime soon.

LiverpoolOne
12-6-11, 21:57
Poor Kenny just will not sleep tonight:sleepy:...................... but when he does he will dream of Hendo's future starring role for LFC:scarf

Syndicato
12-6-11, 21:57
I saw some positive things in his game today. That's good enough for me. As far as I'm concerned the 3-5 games he'll get in this tournament is just another part of his development.

now that's a mature statement even though I may disagree: I didn't see enough to be so head over the heels- sometimes he gave the ball away as if he'd run out of brain, and didn't display enough technical nous for me.... but on the positive side, I thought he has a great engine, is certainly an athlete and hopefully KK will turn him into something really special

Sneets
12-6-11, 21:58
Spain had all the ball, I dont know what you's expected him to do, when he had the ball he used it well, showed a nice range of passing, was unlucky with some and he played a brilliant through ball to Sturridge 2nd half..............Walker was excellent as were Jones and smalling esp at the back. Henderson will be a great signing for us, that Spanish team are wicked esp Martinez, now you know why Rafa was always raving abt him, he reminded me of a young valeron, pure class. Sign him up!

I think he will do well for us and I am happy we bought him but i am not so deluded as to say he played well tonight, he didn't.

Bombay Money Lender
12-6-11, 21:59
Doesn't this belong in the u21 thread below?

Warbi
12-6-11, 21:59
I think he'll play more games on the right than he will at CM for us the next few seasons.

Batfink
12-6-11, 22:00
Whilst I have to agree that it was far from an outstanding performance, like you I have not watched him much. However to start questioning things after only seeing him once and no doubt focusing a lot of you attention on him in particular is more than a little unfair.

Even our biggest players have more than one or two games a season where they are way off playing at their best and I would go as far as to say they are anonymous. In the past Torres was more than guilty of it, Stevie has often gone missing. Does that mean Gerrard isn't worth his weight in gold?

The most important thing is how he fits into our plans at Liverpool, not how well he played in an U21 tournament for England.

JerseyPoolFan
12-6-11, 22:02
Again I wasnt a Liverpool fan in the glory days but hasnt it been the case before where great liverpool players didnt always play well in the England team? I mean England isnt a great pass and move team. So lets not worry how he plays with england but with liverpool.

Syndicato
12-6-11, 22:02
I think he will do well for us and I am happy we bought him but i am not so deluded as to say he played well tonight, he didn't.

Cheers sneets: some people in here are just sheep... to miss the obvious this way because people have e-grudges or are just too thick displays some suspect intellect. I recall when I started finding fault with Torres in 2009/10 some people here took issue with me but before, though and after the world cup, he had started showing serious decay. But some sheep here would have none of it just because they love being popular than standing for the truth. Some people in here I wouldn't be in the trenches with- they are just lily-livered.

The fact of the matter is, henderson may well turn out to be a brilliant player for us but he didn't play well today. And that is FACT!

Paullfc1976
12-6-11, 22:03
get a life: do you know the meaning of that term 'backtrack'?

Look, if you have nothing meaningful to discuss on henderson's performance you are better letting those who want to do so. You are being foolish and immature

:D

You've started a thread saying:"is this fella really worth all the cash" then saying "Oh granted it's only one game", after confessing you'd not seen him play that much. Yes I do know the meaning of backtrack. I commented on his performance in the U21s thread.

He hardly got the ball today, he looked like the one player who wanted the ball and make things happen in the England midfield, far too many times England played long hopeful balls, once they do that, Spain are not going to give the ball up.

He tired toward the end of the game; however you rightly said: "granted it's only one game. He's got a lot to learn, but he's joining the right club, and playing under the right manager to learn and ply his trade.

MaradonaTheGreatest
12-6-11, 22:03
I did confess to never having watched this fella much before, and so today I watched the under-21s to specifically check him (and Jones) out. I must say while it was just one game, I was left scratching my head: is this fella really worth all that cash?From that one game, he has to be a good student of the way Liverpool wanna play, especially if he is to be Stevie's understudy

I wonder if Kenny was left scratching his head too? I would be fine with us paying 10m or so for him. There's a lot of work ahead for Kenny and Steve with him. I'm sure he'll improve as he now has the best combination of coaches in the Prem.

HIP-KLOPPBEATZ
12-6-11, 22:03
I think he will do well for us and I am happy we bought him but i am not so deluded as to say he played well tonight, he didn't.

So for you he had a bad game then? if he constantly give the ball away then fair enough, which he didnt, he hardly had a kick because Spain kept the ball, there was not one england out of defense who had an outstanding game purely because the spanish midfield and forward line were always going to run the game. We all know 20mil was too much for him, on the other hand Martinez looks worth every penny and more

PeaTearGryphon
12-6-11, 22:04
Kinda hard for Henderson to do anything given England's tactics appeared to be lump the ball forward from defense. Oh and Spain dominated possession

SixYardBoxer
12-6-11, 22:06
I have to say, I thought he did pretty well tonight in a team which generally lacked shape, composure and time on the ball.

Syndicato
12-6-11, 22:06
I wonder if Kenny was left scratching his head too? I would be fine with us paying 10m or so for him. There's a lot of work ahead for Kenny and Steve with him. I'm sure he'll improve as he now has the best combination of coaches in the Prem.

Cheers mate- you understand what this discussion is about, unlike some brickheads in here

Paullfc1976
12-6-11, 22:08
Cheers mate- you understand what this discussion is about, unlike some brickheads in here
You're funny, you've had a go at me for being immature, but you're the one throwing out insults at people. I did actually give you a "mature" reply.

Syndicato
12-6-11, 22:08
:D

You've started a thread saying:"is this fella really worth all the cash" then saying "Oh granted it's only one game", after confessing you'd not seen him play that much. Yes I do know the meaning of backtrack. I commented on his performance in the U21s thread.

He hardly got the ball today, he looked like the one player who wanted the ball and make things happen in the England midfield, far too many times England played long hopeful balls, once they do that, Spain are not going to give the ball up.

He tired toward the end of the game; however you rightly said: "granted it's only one game. He's got a lot to learn, but he's joining the right club, and playing under the right manager to learn and ply his trade.


wha'ever

Syndicato
12-6-11, 22:08
You're funny, you've had a go at me for being immature, but you're the one throwing out insults at people. I did actually give you a "mature" reply.

ok

Paullfc1976
12-6-11, 22:09
wha'ever

:)

Craig456
12-6-11, 22:09
To be fair to him, he was being coached by the worst manager in history... Stuart Pearce and all England were doing was smashing balls foward so Henderson couldn't really get the ball down and play.

When he did actually get the ball, he was always looking foward and you can see that he's going to be perfect for the pass and move system.

Kloppette
12-6-11, 22:09
Ive seen Henderson play for club before, I've never seen him play so deep, Pearce went so out of his way not to lose this game. Overall the ball went over him and not through him. He played the ball ok and played a fantastic ball in the first half that any of the Spain team would have been applauded for. Tried to push it too much in Second half when he did get the ball playing too long. Overall average, from an average performance from both teams. Typical start to a tournament expect a different line up and tactics next game. Hopefully have Henderson push up with more freedom and Rodwell holding

Fleems
12-6-11, 22:12
With Smalling and Jones choosing to hoof it at pretty much every opportunity, he was never going to be amazing.

Alpha Papa
12-6-11, 22:12
I thought he looked pretty good most of the times he got the ball. Not worried at all.

Am a little bit worried the lack of support shown by certain fans round here. All too quick to criticise.

Syndicato
12-6-11, 22:13
I thought he looked pretty good most of the times he got the ball. Not worried at all.

Am a little bit worried the lack of support shown by certain fans round here. All too quick to criticise.

oh dear.... constructive criticism: we love our club. Don't be such a coward

GeorgeLFC
12-6-11, 22:14
I was amongst the one who reasoned his signing but common this is just silly. Lets reserve our judgement till the end of the next season. His our player show some support ffs.

Alpha Papa
12-6-11, 22:16
oh dear.... constructive criticism: we love our club. Don't be such a coward


Sorry, forgot about how much guts it takes for some two-bit loser to come onto a forum and **** off their own young players for absolutely no reason.

Sneets
12-6-11, 22:17
So for you he had a bad game then? if he constantly give the ball away then fair enough, which he didnt, he hardly had a kick because Spain kept the ball, there was not one england out of defense who had an outstanding game purely because the spanish midfield and forward line were always going to run the game. We all know 20mil was too much for him, on the other hand Martinez looks worth every penny and more

I don't think you watched the game, he got mugged in midfield a couple of times when dwelling on the ball and he had so many misplaced passes i lost count. I don't think for one minute that we paid 20 million for him, that is paper talk. As I said earlier I am glad we bought him and i think he will be a valuable player for us but he was not good tonight.

Roshi98
12-6-11, 22:17
Awful tactics from Pearce that kept the ball away from the middle and simply tried to rely on pace and power along the line. Took no advantage of the creativity in the middle at all. Couple that with Spain's pretty (and pretty ineffective) keep-away football and Henderson was never going to see much of the ball. When he did he looked pretty sharp in my eyes - some really nice crosses and one lovely pass over the top in the first half. Enough to want to see more, not hang my head in despair, that's for sure.

Kloppette
12-6-11, 22:19
Awful tactics from Pearce that kept the ball away from the middle and simply tried to rely on pace and power along the line. Took no advantage of the creativity in the middle at all. Couple that with Spain's pretty (and pretty ineffective) keep-away football and Henderson was never going to see much of the ball. When he did he looked pretty sharp in my eyes - some really nice crosses and one lovely pass over the top in the first half. Enough to want to see more, not hang my head in despair, that's for sure.

Similar to what I said above, room for improvement from the whole england side.

TomHighwaysM16
12-6-11, 22:21
I saw some positive things in his game today. That's good enough for me. As far as I'm concerned the 3-5 games he'll get in this tournament is just another part of his development.

I agree. He did okay.

Syndicato
12-6-11, 22:26
Sorry, forgot about how much guts it takes for some two-bit loser to come onto a forum and **** off their own young players for absolutely no reason.

oh dear... out come the toys from your pram:D:D

Henderson didn't play well: it does not mean he won't play well for us. Where are you getting lost? There's nothing wrong with stating an opinion - if I am wrong say so without reverting to hyperbole (you can look that up in any dictionary- you are the kind that may need that)

Alpha Papa
12-6-11, 22:30
Where are you getting lost? There's nothing wrong with stating an opinion - if I am wrong say so without reverting to hyperbole (you can look that up in any dictionary- you are the kind that may need that)

No-one used hyperbole. If you're going to try and be smart, then at least do your research properly.

Syndicato
12-6-11, 22:33
No-one used hyperbole. If you're going to try and be smart, then at least do your research properly.


ok...sounds like its way past your bedtime.... only adults are staying on topic and not personalising such mundane things.... if you wanna stay up with us, get hold of your mental faculties and discuss the subject in here. and remember, it's ok to differ.

Alon1
12-6-11, 22:39
today wan't the right game to judge him cause he did see very little of the ball, and Pearce didn't have any intention to play through the middle.

He looked ok when he got it, but he didnt really stand out one way or the other, leaving this game aside, and from what i have seen of him this season, i don't really think he is yet prepared to make a huge impact in the team, and i think he will be introduced gradually.

WAAT
12-6-11, 22:41
Little rant, "How many times has Stuart Pearce got on his knees to stay in management, the guy is *********g awful. Rant over... :IN:

Alpha Papa
12-6-11, 22:42
ok...sounds like its way past your bedtime.... only adults are staying on topic and not personalising such mundane things.... if you wanna stay up with us, get hold of your mental faculties and discuss the subject in here. and remember, it's ok to differ.


Look back over the thread. You made things personal. And the patronising thing really doesn't work.

As for Henderson. Just one of the reasons your OP is so ridiculous is that plenty of people, including me, Dalglish, Comolli and many on this board, have seen plenty of Henderson. The real problem is that you are so self-involved that you think your opinion on one U21 performance is enough to justify you coming on here and starting as new thread about wasting money, demeaning our new signing etc

Syndicato
12-6-11, 23:00
Look back over the thread. You made things personal. And the patronising thing really doesn't work.

As for Henderson. Just one of the reasons your OP is so ridiculous is that plenty of people, including me, Dalglish, Comolli and many on this board, have seen plenty of Henderson. The real problem is that you are so self-involved that you think your opinion on one U21 performance is enough to justify you coming on here and starting as new thread about wasting money, demeaning our new signing etc

oh dear... good luck with your bleating: you are one sad sheep. Now you are equating yourself to KK and Comolli! How deluded can one get?

But as for me, I will say my opinion regardless of what people like you think. You don't impress me anyway with the way you come across so, sorry for engaging you: you are not the sharpest tool in the box.

I am not demeaning anybody- I expressed an opinion, which I am entitled to. This is no way then predestines our signing to being a failure for us. Indeed, if he turns out good, I will be cheering him loud and clear because I want my team to do well. Equally so, when he plays tosh like he did today, I will say so without fear of guys like you....

Syndicato
12-6-11, 23:01
today wan't the right game to judge him cause he did see very little of the ball, and Pearce didn't have any intention to play through the middle.

He looked ok when he got it, but he didnt really stand out one way or the other, leaving this game aside, and from what i have seen of him this season, i don't really think he is yet prepared to make a huge impact in the team, and i think he will be introduced gradually.



ok, sensible opinion.... at least you have watched him a lot

Alpha Papa
12-6-11, 23:14
oh dear... good luck with your bleating: you are one sad sheep. Now you are equating yourself to KK and Comolli! How deluded can one get?

But as for me, I will say my opinion regardless of what people like you think. You don't impress me anyway with the way I come across so, sorry for engaging you: you are not the sharpest tool in the box.

I am not demeaning anybody- I expressed an opinion, which I am entitled to. This is no way then predestines our signing to being a failure for us. Indeed, if he turns out good, I will be cheering him loud and clear because I want my team to do well. Equally so, when he plays tosh like he did today, I will say so without fear of guys like you....

Again, if the second part of your sentence is going to be calling someone stupid, at least make the first clause sensical.

He didn't play tosh today. Don't think there is a single other person on this board who would say that. But please keep going.

old-school
12-6-11, 23:25
England and Pierce are **** that's why he was average.

He showed his class when he went forward, and he dispossessed the ball of the Spaniards consistently at times. Apart from that nothing...because England are ******* ****

Alpha Papa
12-6-11, 23:29
Pearce needs to be one of the dumbest people imaginable to have coaching our young starlets. It beggars belief.

Nice comparison at Anfield though, where Pep and Rodolfo will have us playing like Spain in no time...

djskuff
12-6-11, 23:30
Didn't have chance to watch it all, but caught the first 20 mins. I thought he had a good touch on him and looks like he has an eye for a pass.. With some good coaching, and playing and training with the likes of gerrard, Suarez etc he'll only get better.

Also seems like a nice boy :D that's in it for the love of the game and not *********** his talent away, and apparently stays back after training to carry on brushing up on things. Could be a tidy little player in a year or two..

pavementartist
12-6-11, 23:33
Not been here for a while. What did I miss? High quality intellectual debate? Or at least a decent standard of playground name calling? Oh .... Ok. See you again same time next year.

Attack
12-6-11, 23:33
Positives from today alone: always looking for the ball, good engine, a range of passing, including long, diagonal.

Negatives from today alone: did get mugged of the ball due to dwelling (as somebody else has said), looked unable to influence the game and, sometimes, he didn't pass all that well.

Mitigating circumstances?: Spain were all over England, it wasn't just him; he's already having to live with the 20m price tag; first game of the tournament.

Having said the above, other players did do well despite also having some of those same circumstances (Spain keeping the ball so well and it being the first game of the tournament): Walker, Rose and Smalling, particularly.

Verdict: None.

Liverdinner
13-6-11, 00:03
Would've been hard to put in a "top" performance when he was hardly ever given the ball.a centre midfielder is supposed.to get the ball to other players


people should let the op have hs opinions


england were poor all over tonight so I wont judge off the one game. mancienne suvked next to him and there were a few bursts

scousertommy-86
13-6-11, 00:15
Luckily our coaching staff, manager have looked at him for more than 1 game. So don't worry...

From what i've seen he has the technical ability and awareness for the type of system kenny wants. Pass, move...get the ball into dangerous places early.

This. Especially the first bit.

Is it only me who thought he looked pretty decent! Can certainly see a pass.

StiflerLFC
13-6-11, 00:18
I think a lot of people are forgetting his age! He is still 20 learning the game. Gerrard didn't really take off until 23-24.

Also, learning from the likes of Gerrard every single day will aid him in becoming top class.

I didn't know much about him before he signed but done my research and i think he will develop into a good player for us.

-Monk-
13-6-11, 00:56
Hard to judge him on that one particular game, let alone any single game. It's not the first time you've done it (see Scott Parker thread).

1) It was an U21 game with not many experienced and great players around him like he'd see at Anfield with us.

2) It hard to judge players when they're on international duty, look at all the great English players that don't perform for England like they would for their clubs.

3) Can't judge a players value and ability on a single game.

4) It was against Spain, England's midfield was never gooing to see much of the ball, but when he did get possesion he used it well, not brilliantly, but as well as he could.

5) Shut up Wenger.

bonou2
13-6-11, 01:37
I always said I'd trust kennys judgement but watching tonight I thought he was very poor we are talking 20mill player here no chance. I don't want to be negative far from it but 55million for henderson and Carroll is reckless spending on two good players yes good not world class like you would expect for that money just my opinion lads.
With the money we are supposely have to spend we need a couple of get off your seat players we might sign them yet but looking on what we are linked with again good players not world class or top quality.

-Monk-
13-6-11, 01:56
I always said I'd trust kennys judgement but watching tonight I thought he was very poor we are talking 20mill player here no chance. I don't want to be negative far from it but 55million for henderson and Carroll is reckless spending on two good players yes good not world class like you would expect for that money just my opinion lads.
With the money we are supposely have to spend we need a couple of get off your seat players we might sign them yet but looking on what we are linked with again good players not world class or top quality.

Shut up Sven.

It's easier said then done, buying these world class players.

ssscorchio
13-6-11, 02:00
Out of interest...has anybody watched the Sunderland 3 - 0 Chelsea game from November recently?

I read a lot about Henderson being absolutely quality in that game. I watched it and was surprised by how little he was actually on the ball and how many short sideways passes he made. I think he was deployed quite defensively in this game though, so maybe that was the reason.

I can definitely see his potential though, in his movement, vision and passing skills. It just seems as though games can easily pass him by if he doesn't get on the ball and is asked to be too defensive.

Echos
13-6-11, 02:39
I did confess to never having watched this fella much before, and so today I watched the under-21s to specifically check him (and Jones) out. I must say while it was just one game, I was left scratching my head: is this fella really worth all that cash?

From that one game, he has to be a good student of the way Liverpool wanna play, especially if he is to be Stevie's understudy

hey here's a big old **** you

Syndicato
13-6-11, 06:44
Again, if the second part of your sentence is going to be calling someone stupid, at least make the first clause sensical.

He didn't play tosh today. Don't think there is a single other person on this board who would say that. But please keep going.


You obvously cannot read: just go back through the thread and you will see how many people are in agreement wit me, and also some who disagree with me. And that is ok as we all see things differently, but you are so devoid of self confidence you keep referring to 'the board', 'everybody', etc... and end up equating yourself to Dalglish and Comolli:D Honestly!

Henderson, I repeat, didn't play but that does not mean he won't do well for us. Simples. Some of us know our footy- and we are opinionated as every normal fan should be. If you love being a parrot, that's for you. I enjoy discussing stuff with mature people, and you are clearly not one of them.

Henderson didn't play well but.... please copy what I said earlier and finsh the sentence yourself so you can understand what is being said!

Syndicato
13-6-11, 06:46
Positives from today alone: always looking for the ball, good engine, a range of passing, including long, diagonal.

Negatives from today alone: did get mugged of the ball due to dwelling (as somebody else has said), looked unable to influence the game and, sometimes, he didn't pass all that well.

Mitigating circumstances?: Spain were all over England, it wasn't just him; he's already having to live with the 20m price tag; first game of the tournament.

Having said the above, other players did do well despite also having some of those same circumstances (Spain keeping the ball so well and it being the first game of the tournament): Walker, Rose and Smalling, particularly.

Verdict: None.


Fair input

Syndicato
13-6-11, 06:49
Hard to judge him on that one particular game, let alone any single game. It's not the first time you've done it (see Scott Parker thread).

1) It was an U21 game with not many experienced and great players around him like he'd see at Anfield with us.

2) It hard to judge players when they're on international duty, look at all the great English players that don't perform for England like they would for their clubs.

3) Can't judge a players value and ability on a single game.

4) It was against Spain, England's midfield was never gooing to see much of the ball, but when he did get possesion he used it well, not brilliantly, but as well as he could.

5) Shut up Wenger.

:D:D

I was beginning to wonder when you were gonna come in here with your one-track mind of ALWAYS missing the point. Well, at last....:D:D

How's it hanging, my no.1 fan?

HIP-KLOPPBEATZ
13-6-11, 07:28
oh dear... out come the toys from your pram:D:D

Henderson didn't play well: it does not mean he won't play well for us. Where are you getting lost? There's nothing wrong with stating an opinion - if I am wrong say so without reverting to hyperbole (you can look that up in any dictionary- you are the kind that may need that)

In my book for a player to not "play well" he has to have a real stinker, give the ball away, loose possession, mistime tackles, balloon a few shots and Hendo did neither. Granted he didnt have an amazing game, the quality of the opposition meant he wasnt going to have much of the ball, in the same way Dizzee rascal did nothing for the entire 89mins but he still did what good strikers are supposed to do and put the ball in the net. In this type of game, much the same as champs league game was always going to focus more on Englands defence more than any other area. I'm not having a dig at you, but the way peeps get on here is ridiculous, its like judging any of the english senior squad members based on the France game and imagine they played spain, every player would look pathetic!

Kloppette
13-6-11, 07:32
In my book for a player to not "play well" he has to have a real stinker, give the ball away, loose possession, mistime tackles, balloon a few shots and Hendo did neither. Granted he didnt have an amazing game, the quality of the opposition meant he wasnt going to have much of the ball, in the same way Dizzee rascal did nothing for the entire 89mins but he still did what good strikers are supposed to do and put the ball in the net. In this type of game, much the same as champs league game was always going to focus more on Englands defence more than any other area. I'm not having a dig at you, but the way peeps get on here is ridiculous, its like judging any of the english senior squad members based on the France game and imagine they played spain, every player would look pathetic!

I agree very overreactional people sometimes, he was average in a defensive line up but did a job

Syndicato
13-6-11, 07:39
In my book for a player to not "play well" he has to have a real stinker, give the ball away, loose possession, mistime tackles, balloon a few shots and Hendo did neither. Granted he didnt have an amazing game, the quality of the opposition meant he wasnt going to have much of the ball, in the same way Dizzee rascal did nothing for the entire 89mins but he still did what good strikers are supposed to do and put the ball in the net. In this type of game, much the same as champs league game was always going to focus more on Englands defence more than any other area. I'm not having a dig at you, but the way peeps get on here is ridiculous, its like judging any of the english senior squad members based on the France game and imagine they played spain, every player would look pathetic!

Thanks mate: my problem is that in here people are afraid to say the truth for fear of being unpopular, being banned or negged or whatever other nonsense is peddled. I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong but some people just love unindependent thought.

Indeed, I did say it was just one game and confessed even in the main thread discussing Henderson that I had never really followed him (and Mata) before so I didn't know what they were really like. I honestly wasn't that much impressed yesterday, and granted, Spain were very good and therefore it was difficult for England but my primary reason for watching the game was to check out our new signing. The same people who are attacking me for my assessment of Henderson ironically would have nothing to say if I found Mata having been a smashing little player yesterday- based on the one full game!

All in all, I repeat: in my book, he didn't play well- he did misplace a few passes, got mugged of the ball a few times and sometimes ran himself into a cul-de-sac.... but he's got a great engine, did cover the pitch well and is quite a robust fella.

I am just hoping he will do very well for us. He's our player now.

Syndicato
13-6-11, 07:40
I agree very overreactional people sometimes, he was average in a defensive line up but did a job

Not necessary: I did qualify what I said by "... it was just one game"

Kloppette
13-6-11, 07:43
Not necessary: I did qualify what I said by "... it was just one game"

wasn't directed at you in particular, people outside these forums, many scum fans as well.

Syndicato
13-6-11, 07:48
wasn't directed at you in particular, people outside these forums, many scum fans as well.


ok mate ... I honestly just want him to prove a winner for us... damn, the excitemnt is getting to me: can't wait for the new season to begin!:D

Kloppette
13-6-11, 07:57
ok mate ... I honestly just want him to prove a winner for us... damn, the excitemnt is getting to me: can't wait for the new season to begin!:D

At least you don't have to deal with Scum fans. Got pushed down steps other week by some Chav girls when i was having banter with some Scum supporter friends. My friends are cool, not so narrow minded but some do my head in. I have been laid up for 2 weeks,damaged my leg. Should be ok soon though.

-Gola-
13-6-11, 08:02
He was terrible yesterday it then he is playing with inferior players than what he would get at us. Playing with mancienne would destroh the very best, now he is awful.

He was trying to hard, think this is knowing that you'll very rarely have the ball so you need to do something with it when you've got it.

He'll probably play a lot better in the next few against weaker opposition and were we'll dominate

dixielee
13-6-11, 08:38
"He was terrible yesterday it then he is playing with inferior players than what he would get at us. Playing with mancienne would destroh the very best, now he is awful."
Agree with Lucas,Spearing and Poulsen he will be great !

Syndicato
13-6-11, 08:38
At least you don't have to deal with Scum fans. Got pushed down steps other week by some Chav girls when i was having banter with some Scum supporter friends. My friends are cool, not so narrow minded but some do my head in. I have been laid up for 2 weeks,damaged my leg. Should be ok soon though.

Oh, sorry to hear that mate- hope you recover soon.

My boss is scum, and he baits me like nobody else and the only reason why I haven't been fired for giving it to him because of his team is because they have reached no.19 before us!:D

And yeah, scum supporters, filled to their throats with prawn sandwiches, belching cheap beer out in their hideouts in Kent and everywhere else but Manchester do my head in indeed.

One thing for sure, we are the best fans anywhere in the world, and I am lucky I am a Red! YNWA!:scarf

Keegan7Suarez
13-6-11, 08:40
Oh, sorry to hear that mate- hope you recover soon.

My boss is scum, and he baits me like nobody else and the only reason why I haven't been fired for giving it to him because of his team is because they have reached no.19 before us!:D

And yeah, scum supporters, filled to their throats with prawn sandwiches, belching cheap beer out in their hideouts in Kent and everywhere else but Manchester do my head in indeed.

One thing for sure, we are the best fans anywhere in the world, and I am lucky I am a Red! YNWA!:scarf

This could not be more true......:D :D

Kloppette
13-6-11, 09:07
Oh, sorry to hear that mate- hope you recover soon.

My boss is scum, and he baits me like nobody else and the only reason why I haven't been fired for giving it to him because of his team is because they have reached no.19 before us!:D

And yeah, scum supporters, filled to their throats with prawn sandwiches, belching cheap beer out in their hideouts in Kent and everywhere else but Manchester do my head in indeed.

One thing for sure, we are the best fans anywhere in the world, and I am lucky I am a Red! YNWA!:scarf

Well the girl was a Manc but She got her comeuppance, I got concussion but apparently my friends didn't let it lie. I was out cold woke up at Manchester A&E. Apparantly I said " If Rooney wasn't a big fat waster they might have had a chance plus something about Giggs and that they were outplayed " I don't remember because of bang to my head.

Dousty
13-6-11, 10:14
I thought he did ok yesterday. Not brilliant but by no means rubbish. He wasn't helped out by the fact he was playing a brilliant Spain side and that neither Rose or Cleverley were particularly good outlets but he did show from time to time an eye for a pass and a quickness to his play.

Looking forward to seeing him against easier opposition in the next group games, and more importantly, lining up in a Red shirt in pre-season.

Cwmbran Red
13-6-11, 10:17
We would've seen more from Henderson had he been playing alongside a competent defensive midfielder. Mancienne is not a competent defensive midfielder, as far as tactics go it was an epic fail from Pearce there.

Judge him after he's had game time alongside Lucas.

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 10:18
Thanks mate: my problem is that in here people are afraid to say the truth for fear of being unpopular, being banned or negged or whatever other nonsense is peddled. I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong but some people just love unindependent thought.

Indeed, I did say it was just one game and confessed even in the main thread discussing Henderson that I had never really followed him (and Mata) before so I didn't know what they were really like. I honestly wasn't that much impressed yesterday, and granted, Spain were very good and therefore it was difficult for England but my primary reason for watching the game was to check out our new signing.

All in all, I repeat: in my book, he didn't play well- he did misplace a few passes, got mugged of the ball a few times and sometimes ran himself into a cul-de-sac.... but he's got a great engine, did cover the pitch well and is quite a robust fella.

I am just hoping he will do very well for us. He's our player now.

Your posts are all so self-righteous it is incredible.

Everyone is giving an opinion here. No-one is 'afraid to say what they think'. The issue I have with you is that you think it is necessary to start a whole new thread (separate to the England U21 thread, separate to the Henderson thread) just so you can **** off our new signing.

As everyone else has said here, he didn't get too involved in the game yesterday, but he looked decent when he did. However you feel the need to start a thread, call him 'tosh', talk about the waste of money.

Plus, I'm pretty sure you didn't watch the game. A 'robust little fella'. What the hell does that mean? He's over 6 foot and fairly thinly built. Similar to Gerrard.


And the final bit in bold? Give me a break. If you were hoping he would do well then you wouldn't find the need to come onto the official forums and **** the guy off. Great for his confidence. I think you should keep your rants to Talksport.

Londonred123
13-6-11, 10:23
Your posts are all so self-righteous it is incredible.

Everyone is giving an opinion here. No-one is 'afraid to say what they think'. The issue I have with you is that you think it is necessary to start a whole new thread (separate to the England U21 thread, separate to the Henderson thread) just so you can **** off our new signing.

As everyone else has said here, he didn't get too involved in the game yesterday, but he looked decent when he did. However you feel the need to start a thread, call him 'tosh', talk about the waste of money.

Plus, I'm pretty sure you didn't watch the game. A 'robust little fella'. What the hell does that mean? He's over 6 foot and fairly thinly built. Similar to Gerrard.


And the final bit in bold? Give me a break. If you were hoping he would do well then you wouldn't find the need to come onto the official forums and **** the guy off. Great for his confidence. I think you should keep your rants to Talksport.

Hilarious that you think that JH gives a monkey's what any of us on here think about his performance last night even if he did read this thread or these boards which I am pretty sure he does not. Talk about self importance.

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 10:31
Hilarious that you think that JH gives a monkey's what any of us on here think about his performance last night even if he did read this thread or these boards which I am pretty sure he does not. Talk about self importance.

You think the players won't listen or get affected by what is said on TalkSport, on the forums etc?

And this is the second anti-Henderson thread he has started in the week since we signed him. Despite there being a Henderson thread already existing...

http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=254667

Syndicato
13-6-11, 10:36
Your posts are all so self-righteous it is incredible.

Everyone is giving an opinion here. No-one is 'afraid to say what they think'. The issue I have with you is that you think it is necessary to start a whole new thread (separate to the England U21 thread, separate to the Henderson thread) just so you can **** off our new signing.

As everyone else has said here, he didn't get too involved in the game yesterday, but he looked decent when he did. However you feel the need to start a thread, call him 'tosh', talk about the waste of money.

Plus, I'm pretty sure you didn't watch the game. A 'robust little fella'. What the hell does that mean? He's over 6 foot and fairly thinly built. Similar to Gerrard.


And the final bit in bold? Give me a break. If you were hoping he would do well then you wouldn't find the need to come onto the official forums and **** the guy off. Great for his confidence. I think you should keep your rants to Talksport.


:D

here, have a biscuit:D

you play to the gallery and then accuse me of self-righteousness. Wow... you belong to a mob, hence your mob-psychology and the need to want to belong. You are just a lost soul. Good advice, and you'd do well to heed this: if you don't like a thread, it's always better to steer clear of it than participate in it and reveal exactly how thick you are. There is no need for your anger: you scare no-one.

Henderson didn't play well yesterday, but he's our player now and here's hoping he will do that much better for us. I honestly have no idea why you are missing the obvious like this.

Syndicato
13-6-11, 10:39
Hilarious that you think that JH gives a monkey's what any of us on here think about his performance last night even if he did read this thread or these boards which I am pretty sure he does not. Talk about self importance.


:D:D

go easy on the fella- seems like he's not had a good night, dreaming about what to say to me!

but I agree: he seems so deluded to think players waste their time following on us on here. I would certainly welcome them to so they get to know what we say as fans, but I doubt many of them do, to be honest. Well said mate

BAlmeida
13-6-11, 10:40
The problem with yesterdays performance was not solely Hendersons fault. He was made to look poor IMO by the rest of the England players. He was trying to play a quick passing game, just like Spain were, but the other 10 England players seemed to be content to play at a snails pace before hoofing the ball up to Sturridge, who himself looked frustrated with a lack of quality service!!:mad:

Syndicato
13-6-11, 10:40
You think the players won't listen or get affected by what is said on TalkSport, on the forums etc?

And this is the second anti-Henderson thread he has started in the week since we signed him. Despite there being a Henderson thread already existing...

http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=254667

oh dear... I started the thread but I didn't write that article, you muppet:D:D

Please learn to at least make truthful statements instead of just running off at the mouth for no reason: you end up making yourself look silly

Syndicato
13-6-11, 10:42
We would've seen more from Henderson had he been playing alongside a competent defensive midfielder. Mancienne is not a competent defensive midfielder, as far as tactics go it was an epic fail from Pearce there.

Judge him after he's had game time alongside Lucas.


sure mate... I also agree, that manciene was dreadful. If I was a hamburg fan I'd be having a similar thread about him

cravenz
13-6-11, 10:43
Okay. Read this last page and is there anyone who can give a breakdown on how he fared in the England match? I just got back from an exam paper :IN:

Liverdinner
13-6-11, 10:44
Okay. Read this last page and is there anyone who can give a breakdown on how he fared in the England match? I just got back from an exam paper :IN:

We got spanked in the midfield. He gave the ball away lot and just generally didnt do much. But he had Mancienne next to him who was rubbish too.

Their midfield was awesome.

cravenz
13-6-11, 10:47
We got spanked in the midfield. He gave the ball away lot and just generally didnt do much. But he had Mancienne next to him who was rubbish too.

Their midfield was awesome.

:eek: Ouch. Why does our website say he starred for England then? Haven't clicked on the article. Just saw the headline lol.:p

seanyirl
13-6-11, 10:47
Would've been hard to put in a "top" performance when he was hardly ever given the ball.

yeah spain owned the ball , none of the england players looked great , walker and smalling were all that played ok

Liverdinner
13-6-11, 10:48
:eek: Ouch. Why does our website say he starred for England then? Haven't clicked on the article. Just saw the headline lol.:p

Ha cause he plays for us.


Best player was maybe the right back walker or one of the strikers by default.

Was awful throughout the team tbf to Henderson but he wasnt at his best.

Syndicato
13-6-11, 10:49
:eek: Ouch. Why does our website say he starred for England then? Haven't clicked on the article. Just saw the headline lol.:p

positive spin, and that is how it should be

Syndicato
13-6-11, 10:51
Well the girl was a Manc but She got her comeuppance, I got concussion but apparently my friends didn't let it lie. I was out cold woke up at Manchester A&E. Apparantly I said " If Rooney wasn't a big fat waster they might have had a chance plus something about Giggs and that they were outplayed " I don't remember because of bang to my head.

Oh damn.... I hate it when people get violent for no reason. I am sure they started on you and it's a good thing your mates sorted them out.

I hope you get better soon and get back to giving them scums lip!

cravenz
13-6-11, 10:52
positive spin, and that is how it should be

I'm not suggesting, just to clear the air, that it should say he was rubbish either by the way. Saying that he starred just made it sound like he had a sensational game, which by what you guys are saying...

cravenz
13-6-11, 10:56
At least you don't have to deal with Scum fans. Got pushed down steps other week by some Chav girls when i was having banter with some Scum supporter friends. My friends are cool, not so narrow minded but some do my head in. I have been laid up for 2 weeks,damaged my leg. Should be ok soon though.

Ouch. That is just messed up. Get well soon.

Was looking for a happy song, but found this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Ypt276ipI&feature=related) instead.

Syndicato
13-6-11, 10:56
I'm not suggesting, just to clear the air, that it should say he was rubbish either by the way. Saying that he starred just made it sound like he had a sensational game, which by what you guys are saying...

No worries mate. from the official pages we would be daft in saying our own player was rubbish, so the writers big him up, which is good. In here though, us the fans say it the way it is because it is just harmless banter between fans who all love the club.

But yes, he did not play well yesterday but may well do so for us in the future, and that future is not so far away

cravenz
13-6-11, 10:57
No worries mate. from the official pages we would be daft in saying our own player was rubbish, so the writers big him up, which is good. In here though, us the fans say it the way it is because it is just harmless banter between fans who all love the club.

But yes, he did not play well yesterday but may well do so for us in the future, and that future is not so far away

Heh. Well. Yes. All good with harmless banter. ;)

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 11:00
:eek: Ouch. Why does our website say he starred for England then? Haven't clicked on the article. Just saw the headline lol.:p

He played 90 minutes and did ok. He was made captain on around 65 mins.

Problem was that he played in a two man midfield with the (dreadful) Mancienne, against 3 for Spain which including their best players in Thiago and Martinez.

So all too often we bypassed the midfield and hoofed it along. On which note, I saw nothing to suggest Phil Jones is the great ball-player I've heard of.

But back to Henderson, he wanted the ball, good range of passing, nice turn of pace, and probably dispossessed the Spanish more than any other player (possible exception fo Smalling). I would doubt you could find any match report from a decent journalist that had anything worse than 'quiet' to say about him.

Liverdinner
13-6-11, 11:04
He played 90 minutes and did ok. He was made captain on around 65 mins.

Problem was that he played in a two man midfield with the (dreadful) Mancienne, against 3 for Spain which including their best players in Thiago and Martinez.

So all too often we bypassed the midfield and hoofed it along. On which note, I saw nothing to suggest Phil Jones is the great ball-player I've heard of.

But back to Henderson, he wanted the ball, good range of passing, nice turn of pace, and probably dispossessed the Spanish more than any other player (possible exception fo Smalling). I would doubt you could find any match report from a decent journalist that had anything worse than 'quiet' to say about him.

Thing is though, if Jones is hoofing Henderson should have come short and taken it off him.

cravenz
13-6-11, 11:05
He played 90 minutes and did ok. He was made captain on around 65 mins.

Problem was that he played in a two man midfield with the (dreadful) Mancienne, against 3 for Spain which including their best players in Thiago and Martinez.

So all too often we bypassed the midfield and hoofed it along. On which note, I saw nothing to suggest Phil Jones is the great ball-player I've heard of.

But back to Henderson, he wanted the ball, good range of passing, nice turn of pace, and probably dispossessed the Spanish more than any other player (possible exception fo Smalling). I would doubt you could find any match report from a decent journalist that had anything worse than 'quiet' to say about him.

Thanks ;)

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 11:20
Thing is though, if Jones is hoofing Henderson should have come short and taken it off him.

Mate, watch a 10 minute clip from the second half.

Every time Jones/Smalling had the ball, Henderson was the one midfielder showing, trying to get it from them and build play. The problem was that Spain were doing what Barcelona did to Arsenal - they pushed high and had always had a midfielder pressing Henderson so he often had to give the ball back/sideways, or simply didn't receive it because they were essentially marking him even when he was deep in his own half.

Arsenal didn't have an answer, nor did England yesterday.

pete752
13-6-11, 11:20
He played 90 minutes and did ok. He was made captain on around 65 mins.

Problem was that he played in a two man midfield with the (dreadful) Mancienne, against 3 for Spain which including their best players in Thiago and Martinez.

So all too often we bypassed the midfield and hoofed it along. On which note, I saw nothing to suggest Phil Jones is the great ball-player I've heard of.

But back to Henderson, he wanted the ball, good range of passing, nice turn of pace, and probably dispossessed the Spanish more than any other player (possible exception fo Smalling). I would doubt you could find any match report from a decent journalist that had anything worse than 'quiet' to say about him.

Thanks for that concise summary mate. Looks like he did ok unlike the over the top exaggerations I hear everywhere else that he was gash ;)

Liverdinner
13-6-11, 11:23
Mate, watch a 10 minute clip from the second half.

Every time Jones/Smalling had the ball, Henderson was the one midfielder showing, trying to get it from them and build play. The problem was that Spain were doing what Barcelona did to Arsenal - they pushed high and had always had a midfielder pressing Henderson so he often had to give the ball back/sideways, or simply didn't receive it because they were essentially marking him even when he was deep in his own half.

Arsenal didn't have an answer, nor did England yesterday.

I remember watching it with a group of lads and all of us practically shouting at the midfield to come and ask for the ball.

Syndicato
13-6-11, 11:25
Thanks for that concise summary mate. Looks like he did ok unlike the over the top exaggerations I hear everywhere else that he was gash ;)

No. Don't listen to blind supporters. he wasn't that good yesterday but he is our player now, is young and can run all night long:D.... and we can only hope KK and SC will wok their magic on his potential.

The same dude asking you to watch 10 minutes of a game for you to make your mind on, has a hissy about me making a 'judgement' on 1 full game! talk about hypocrisy.

cravenz
13-6-11, 11:25
I remember watching it with a group of lads and all of us practically shouting at the midfield to come and ask for the ball.

Group think can do a lot and make one lose objectivity pretty darn fast :IN:

Syndicato
13-6-11, 11:27
Mate, watch a 10 minute clip from the second half.

Every time Jones/Smalling had the ball, Henderson was the one midfielder showing, trying to get it from them and build play. The problem was that Spain were doing what Barcelona did to Arsenal - they pushed high and had always had a midfielder pressing Henderson so he often had to give the ball back/sideways, or simply didn't receive it because they were essentially marking him even when he was deep in his own half.

Arsenal didn't have an answer, nor did England yesterday.


What a clueless statement: so are you suggetsing it was Spain's fault for marking him?:D:D

You are convinced I did not watch the game; well and good. I am convinced you have no clue what football is all about

Fowi
13-6-11, 11:28
He came deep to take the ball off his defenders for almost the entire second half.

English players really have it weird in their heads. When a central midfielder has the ball his instinct is to look up and see the movement in front of him. If there is something he launches the ball. If there isn't he shouts at them to move. I just don't get this. After football has existed for so many years you would imagine the players have been taught that this is football and not NFL. You create things by having 5-6 players move close to each other. Not by having one player on the ball in the centre circle and the other players running around 60 yards in front of him.

cravenz
13-6-11, 11:30
He came deep to take the ball off his defenders for almost the entire second half.

English players really have it weird in their heads. When a central midfielder has the ball his instinct is to look up and see the movement in front of him. If there is something he launches the ball. If there isn't he shouts at them to move. I just don't get this. After football has existed for so many years you would imagine the players have been taught that this is football and not NFL. You create things by having 5-6 players move close to each other. Not by having one player on the ball in the centre circle and the other players running around 60 yards in front of him.

Lol.

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 11:32
.

The same dude asking you to watch 10 minutes of a game for you to make your mind on, has a hissy about me making a 'judgement' on 1 full game! talk about hypocrisy.

Please stop responding to my posts.

I said he could watch any 10 minute segment... because it happened throughout the entire second half. Or I could suggest he re-watches the entire game non-live on a work day.

Syndicato
13-6-11, 11:34
He came deep to take the ball off his defenders for almost the entire second half.

English players really have it weird in their heads. When a central midfielder has the ball his instinct is to look up and see the movement in front of him. If there is something he launches the ball. If there isn't he shouts at them to move. I just don't get this. After football has existed for so many years you would imagine the players have been taught that this is football and not NFL. You create things by having 5-6 players move close to each other. Not by having one player on the ball in the centre circle and the other players running around 60 yards in front of him.

Point. I have always lamented this fact. Gone are the days of a big lump up front to cause havoc in the defence when the ball is hoofed up to him. I have constantly asked why the players lack game intelligence, ease of touch, guile and the technical nous of the more fluid sides.... witness what happened at the world cup in south africa- that was shameful to be honest.

I just think its all down to the coaching, really. The issue of training youngsters in ball retention, ball juggling and nutmegging opponents seems to have been completely off the English agenda. This is just the sort of stuff that be concentrated on.... thanks for that post.

Liverdinner
13-6-11, 11:35
I wonder how he would have played with Wilshere in the team too. Somebody who can actually keep the ball.


Wed have won with Wilshere.

Fowi
13-6-11, 11:36
I wonder how he would have played with Wilshere in the team too. Somebody who can actually keep the ball.


Wed have won with Wilshere.

Better. It would also help if England hadn't played two left backs and Cleverly on the right.

Liverdinner
13-6-11, 11:37
Better. It would also help if England hadn't played two left backs and Cleverly on the right.

Bertrand was total balls, didnt get forward at all. Rose was fast.....


Id have brought on Albrighton in the middle to get hold of the ball and try be crreative.

LiverpoolOne
13-6-11, 11:38
When the England squad is made up soley of young Liverpool players the days of pass and move will once again grace our screens!!:scarf

Syndicato
13-6-11, 11:38
Please stop responding to my posts.




why?:D

You came into a thread I started to attack my views, which you are entitled to, and now that you've been shown up for the incompetent unmentionable that you are, you are crying and you don't want me to respond to your posts when you've been responding to mine! You can't have it both ways. You are a sad, vindictive, hateful and spiteful individual who must have his way always.

sadly for you, life's not like that

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 11:39
Better. It would also help if England hadn't played two left backs and Cleverly on the right.

Having Wilshere would have meant that Mancienne didn't player. Which would have made a huge difference.

Btw, how come Albrighton isn't starting? He always looks good when I watch him, but got dropped to the Villa reserves at some point last season and Pearce is starting Mancienne and Cleverly ahead of him.

Liverdinner
13-6-11, 11:40
Having Wilshere would have meant that Mancienne didn't player. Which would have made a huge difference.

Btw, how come Albrighton isn't starting? He always looks good when I watch him, but got dropped to the Villa reserves at some point last season and Pearce is starting Mancienne and Cleverly ahead of him.

And Wilshere>Spains midfield.

Dave00
13-6-11, 11:41
I did confess to never having watched this fella much before, and so today I watched the under-21s to specifically check him (and Jones) out. I must say while it was just one game, I was left scratching my head: is this fella really worth all that cash?

From that one game, he has to be a good student of the way Liverpool wanna play, especially if he is to be Stevie's understudy


Attention seeking wum alert.:rolleyes:

Liverdinner
13-6-11, 11:41
Attention seeking wum alert.:rolleyes:

:sleepy:

Fowi
13-6-11, 11:42
And Wilshere>Spains midfield.

Wouldn't go that far, but he would have helped. Then again no point crying about it as Spain could have included Busquets and possibly Pedro too.

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 11:44
You are a sad, vindictive, hateful and spiteful individual who must have his way always.



And award for pre-Madonna drama queen of the year goes to....

Liverdinner
13-6-11, 11:45
Wouldn't go that far, but he would have helped. Then again no point crying about it as Spain could have included Busquets and possibly Pedro too.

Yeah it was an exaggeration, hes not quite better than four players though individually Id say he was better than them all.


True. But we could have had Adam Johnson, Hart and Carroll with a fit Gibbs and Micah Richards

Aerial bombardment ftw.

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 11:46
They could have had Suso...

:IN:

Syndicato
13-6-11, 12:01
Attention seeking wum alert.:rolleyes:


oh dear... another intellectually challenged one on the way... looks like whatever Y2a's got is contengious:eek:

Syndicato
13-6-11, 12:01
And award for pre-Madonna drama queen of the year goes to....

You!:D

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 12:02
oh dear... another intellectually challenged one on the way... looks like whatever Y2a's got is contengious:eek:

I must be stupid. What does 'contengious' mean?

Syndicato
13-6-11, 12:06
I must be stupid. What does 'contengious' mean?

You are stupid. now concentrating on typos:D

the sign of a man whose brains have ended

LordJamieOfCarragher
13-6-11, 12:08
I must be stupid. What does 'contengious' mean?


You are stupid. now concentrating on typos:D

the sign of a man whose brains have ended

Can you both pack it in please.

grenny158
13-6-11, 12:10
No. Don't listen to blind supporters. he wasn't that good yesterday but he is our player now, is young and can run all night long:D.... and we can only hope KK and SC will wok their magic on his potential.

The same dude asking you to watch 10 minutes of a game for you to make your mind on, has a hissy about me making a 'judgement' on 1 full game! talk about hypocrisy.

Actually, it is you who is incorrect .. For whatever reason, you are making it seem as though Henderson was a lot worse than he actually was. For me, he had an ok game, nothing really flashy, but did what he needed to competently. Spain thoroughly dominated the game and England were VERY lucky to get the draw. To make an assessment that Henderson is not worth his transfer fee based on this one game, shows you up to be a bit of a fool, in all honesty.

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 12:12
You are stupid. now concentrating on typos:D

the sign of a man whose brains have ended

Sorry to tell you, but that's not a typo.

Syndicato
13-6-11, 12:12
Can you both pack it in please.

sorry LJC but this guy just came in for a fight. If you follow the thread you'll see where it all began. Why is disagreement a SIN in this place? I saw what I saw when I watched Henderson yesterday and some guy is trying to force his views on me. i don't think that is right.

But I have been happy to discuss with others who have been very objective

Syndicato
13-6-11, 12:13
Actually, it is you who is incorrect .. For whatever reason, you are making it seem as though Henderson was a lot worse than he actually was. For me, he had an ok game, nothing really flashy, but did what he needed to competently. Spain thoroughly dominated the game and England were VERY lucky to get the draw. To make an assessment that Henderson is not worth his transfer fee based on this one game, shows you up to be a bit of a fool, in all honesty.

your opinion, and you are entitled to it

Syndicato
13-6-11, 12:13
Sorry to tell you, but that's not a typo.

ok. happy now?

:D

grenny158
13-6-11, 12:16
your opinion, and you are entitled to it

So you are saying your opinion is that it is justifiable to state, as you did, that he is not worth his transfer fee based solely on last's night's performance?

Syndicato
13-6-11, 12:17
So you are saying your opinion is that it is justifiable to state, as you did, that he is not worth his transfer fee based solely on last's night's performance?

no.

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 12:25
sorry LJC but this guy just came in for a fight. If you follow the thread you'll see where it all began. Why is disagreement a SIN in this place? I saw what I saw when I watched Henderson yesterday and some guy is trying to force his views on me. i don't think that is right.

But I have been happy to discuss with others who have been very objective

You are amazingly delusional.

Your posts just before I said anything:-


Cheers sneets: some people in here are just sheep... to miss the obvious this way because people have e-grudges or are just too thick displays some suspect intellect.


then


Cheers mate- you understand what this discussion is about, unlike some brickheads in here

Then I said:


I thought he looked pretty good most of the times he got the ball. Not worried at all.

Am a little bit worried the lack of support shown by certain fans round here. All too quick to criticise

And your brilliant response is:


oh dear.... constructive criticism: we love our club. Don't be such a coward

That's how it began. Although the icing on the cake is certainly me being "spiteful, vindictive, a loser and hateful".


Your apparent certaintly in your own intellectual genius, whilst quite amusing, also means you are impossible to debate with.

I'll do what LJOC suggests and keep this on topic from now on. I tried that twice already and promise I won't be dragged into this pointless argument any further. I do hate it when threads become a two person *****-fight, but it can happen so easily.:confused:

johnamiri
13-6-11, 12:33
I thought Henderson looked Ok but he went missing for long periods last night. Didn't get the best support and at times had nobody to pass the ball to.

Syndicato
13-6-11, 12:34
:D y2a

oh dear, selective amnesia if ever there was one such display in here. if you look at post no 63, you came in and called me a loser. and if you must quote me, do so correctly- I never called you a loser.

As for intellect, I could never claim to be the most intelligent person around, but I doubt you could claim to have an intelligence at all.

But yes, this is the one time I will agree with you: stay on topic. That's all that's required.

Syndicato
13-6-11, 12:35
I thought Henderson looked Ok but he went missing for long periods last night. Didn't get the best support and at times had nobody to pass the ball to.

You watched the game. Thanks!

cravenz
13-6-11, 12:41
Syndicato and Y2A; just agree to disagree perhaps? You both saw the game differently. And it is the reason why people rate different players differently. The fact that you both are now shooting arrows and looking at point scoring is indicative of the value of the conversation. Opinions yes, point scoring to ridicule or put down the other is needless, imo. Leave it would be my best guess. You both are right. He was nothing extraordinary in that one match (I haven't watched. But it seems to be something both of you agree on at least).

Dave00
13-6-11, 12:44
@ LJOC what's up mate do you think it is correct for folks to feed the trolls now, i'm sure Matt would dissagree with you on that one.:confused::(

LordJamieOfCarragher
13-6-11, 12:45
@ LJOC what's up mate do you think it is correct for folks to feed the trolls now, i'm sure Matt would dissagree with you on that one.:confused::(

Just trying to keep the thread on topic Dave.

-Monk-
13-6-11, 12:53
:D:D

I was beginning to wonder when you were gonna come in here with your one-track mind of ALWAYS missing the point. Well, at last....:D:D

How's it hanging, my no.1 fan?

As always you can't respond to my points in a mature manner, pathetic.

Syndicato
13-6-11, 12:55
My last contribution on this thread- something I feel I have been consistent on : henderson did not play well last night. That, however, does not mean he won't play well for us.

End of.

Dave00
13-6-11, 12:58
As a mark of respect to LJOC i'm outta here, buy guys.:)

NECRON
13-6-11, 12:59
The reason this thread keeps on veering off topic is because it was a highly pointless one to begin with. Henderson played in a U21 game. He didn't stand out. He didn't look bad. Some posters are undecided about him because: they haven't seen him much, he is a young developing player, he cost over or around 16m apparently.

The rest is all fluff.

Syndicato has indeed been consistent, just not in the way he claims.

Gazza74
13-6-11, 13:13
I thought Jordan did well considering the negative tactics by Pearce and the fact we'd have seen more movement and creating angles for passes if we'd had the England old folks home XI out there.

He was always asking for the ball and the problem was one of 2 things happened:-

1) He didn't get it and it was instead lumped over his head for the 2 strikers to try and win and hope that someone got on the knock down.

2) He got it, turned and there wasn't an England player within 20 yards of him and they were all static and not even moving to offer him an angle.

Put Jordan in the Spanish team and i bet he would have played well as he has the touch, the vision and the passing ability, he just needs those around him to be involved in a pass and move style and not the usual English straight line, static, 4-4-2 Pearce adopted last night.

He didn't look great but i do think he wasn't allowed to by Pearce's inability to pick a team and tactics that would have seen Jordan flourish.

Their were a couple of occasions when he dropped off to receive the ball, got it, turned and was surrounded by 4 or 5 Spanish players. In that instance he needed one of the free English lads to come and show for him and we'd have been able to break, but the others were static and not moving, just holding position and he ended up being crowded out and had to force a pass.

It reminded me of how we were for 18 months before Kenny came in and how our players just looked clueless, couldn't pass, had no movement, just played in rigid straight lines and our whole squad was getting written off. Kenny comes in, let's them off the leash, gives them freedom, introduces high tempo pass and move training and football to go into matches and suddenly our players look like different ones for the most part.

I wouldn't even judge Jordan in this tournament if Pearce is going to continue stifling England as he'll probably still struggle to flourish. In Kenny's style, able to be free and express, having 5 or 6 options all the time for a pass, players creating angles, moving all the time etc etc, i think the lad has the passing and vision to be an excellent player.

I felt sorry for him last night and he did well to even show glimpses of his ability. He didn't play great, but again, he wasn't in a team that allowed him to.

Dave00
13-6-11, 13:14
As a mark of respect to LJOC i'm outta here, buy guys.:)


Sorry can i retract this statement i have just noticed that LJOC has infracted me yet again.:D

cravenz
13-6-11, 13:15
I thought Jordan did well considering the negative tactics by Pearce and the fact we'd have seen more movement and creating angles for passes if we'd had the England old folks home XI out there.

He was always asking for the ball and the problem was one of 2 things happened:-

1) He didn't get it and it was instead lumped over his head for the 2 strikers to try and win and hope that someone got on the knock down.

2) He got it, turned and there wasn't an England player within 20 yards of him and they were all static and not even moving to offer him an angle.

Put Jordan in the Spanish team and i bet he would have played well as he has the touch, the vision and the passing ability, he just needs those around him to be involved in a pass and move style and not the usual English straight line, static, 4-4-2 Pearce adopted last night.

He didn't look great but i do think he wasn't allowed to by Pearce's inability to pick a team and tactics that would have seen Jordan flourish.

Their were a couple of occasions when he dropped off to receive the ball, got it, turned and was surrounded by 4 or 5 Spanish players. In that instance he needed one of the free English lads to come and show for him and we'd have been able to break, but the others were static and not moving, just holding position and he ended up being crowded out and had to force a pass.

It reminded me of how we were for 18 months before Kenny came in and how our players just looked clueless, couldn't pass, had no movement, just played in rigid straight lines and our whole squad was getting written off. Kenny comes in, let's them off the leash, gives them freedom, introduces high tempo pass and move training and football to go into matches and suddenly out players look like different ones for the most part.

I wouldn't even judge Jordan in this tournament if Pearce is going to continue stifling England as he'll probably still struggle to flourish. In Kenny's style, able to be free and express, having 5 or 6 options all the time for a pass, players creating angles, moving all the time etc etc, i think the lad has the passing and vision to be an excellent player.

I felt sorry for him last night and he did well to even show glimpses of his ability. He didn't play great, but again, he wasn't in a team that allowed him to.

Thanks for that Gazza

-Monk-
13-6-11, 13:15
Sorry can i retract this statement i have just noticed that LJOC has infracted me yet again.:D

LJOC you silly so n so :p

Dave00
13-6-11, 13:18
LJOC you silly so n so :p


Cheers mate i think it was a tad harsh as i was by far not the only one that spotted the real reason behind this thread, but oh well life goes on.;):)

TheKarlHeinzeRiddler
13-6-11, 13:20
Personally, to bring this back on track, I couldn't give a gorilla's penis how Henderson plays for the U21's - they're not coached by our Management team, they don't play our style of football and don't have his future colleagues en masse alongside him.

All I hope from Henderson's U21 appearances is that he wins the thing and that he comes back to us without any injuries.

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 13:29
Good description Gazza. Couldn't agree more. As I said a couple of pages back, I thought he was the only English player showing for it, who wanted to build play through the midfield.

But, just as Barcelona pressed Arsenal v high up the pitch, Spain did the same, and Henderson's team mates didn't share his eagerness to get on the ball.

Btw, Gazza, weren't you one of the people who were against the signing? Or am I getting it confused with a different player? If you were against it, then glad you're giving him time to show what he can do etc :D

Gazza74
13-6-11, 13:34
Good description Gazza. Couldn't agree more. As I said a couple of pages back, I thought he was the only English player showing for it, who wanted to build play through the midfield.

But, just as Barcelona pressed Arsenal v high up the pitch, Spain did the same, and Henderson's team mates didn't share his eagerness to get on the ball.

Btw, Gazza, weren't you one of the people who were against the signing? Or am I getting it confused with a different player? If you were against it, then glad you're giving him time to show what he can do etc :D

No, i wasn't against the signing at all, the lad has talent and ability for sure.

Only player so far i've been set against is Joey Barton..:D

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 13:36
No, i wasn't against the signing at all, the lad has talent and ability for sure.

Only player so far i've been set against is Joey Barton..:D


Ah ok. Can't remember which signing it was, just seem to remember disagreeing with you on something ;)

Joey Barton. Thank *********** God that rumour seems to have died down.

Anyway, when is the England match v Ukraine? Looking forward to that even more now.

FootyFanatik
13-6-11, 13:43
Some of you need to get a grip of yourselves. Is one below par u21 game against the superhuman spanish side going to mould his Liverpool career? NO.

You should of seen the lad when he arrived at melwood, he was a mess. Kept asking whether anything went wrong in the medical. Shaking like a leaf. He wanted to be a Liverpool player so bad.
Some of what you lot are coming out with is nonsensical. Unmitigated ******.


Back the lad. He'll come good. Laden with a 16m price tag is a lot for a 20 year old. We'll see some good stuff from him in the rest of the tournament I'm sure of that.

LordJamieOfCarragher
13-6-11, 13:43
Ah ok. Can't remember which signing it was, just seem to remember disagreeing with you on something ;)

Joey Barton. Thank *********** God that rumour seems to have died down.

Anyway, when is the England match v Ukraine? Looking forward to that even more now.

Wednesday 7:45

Alpha Papa
13-6-11, 13:45
Some of you need to get a grip of yourselves. Is one below par u21 game against the superhuman spanish side going to mould his Liverpool career? NO.

You should of seen the lad when he arrived at melwood, he was a mess. Kept asking whether anything went wrong in the medical. Shaking like a leaf. He wanted to be a Liverpool player so bad.
Some of what you lot are coming out with is nonsensical. Unmitigated ******.


Back the lad. He'll come good. Laden with a 16m price tag is a lot for a 20 year old. We'll see some good stuff from him in the rest of the tournament I'm sure of that.


So what is your link to the club? I've seen a few of these semi ITK posts from you. Interesting.

Good story anyway, love to hear about a young player acting that way. I do really like this kid's attitude.

Dave00
13-6-11, 13:47
Some of you need to get a grip of yourselves. Is one below par u21 game against the superhuman spanish side going to mould his Liverpool career? NO.

You should of seen the lad when he arrived at melwood, he was a mess. Kept asking whether anything went wrong in the medical. Shaking like a leaf. He wanted to be a Liverpool player so bad.
Some of what you lot are coming out with is nonsensical. Unmitigated ******.


Back the lad. He'll come good. Laden with a 16m price tag is a lot for a 20 year old. We'll see some good stuff from him in the rest of the tournament I'm sure of that.


Well said Sir.:clap:

red6
13-6-11, 16:19
He did the job he had to do. He's not going to run in and take the ball off of his centre-backs. He got in all the right positions and when he got the ball, he generally used it well.

Funnily enough most of his touches was when he took the ball from the CB's or keeper & then gave it back to them
If compared to the likes of Mata he looked average at best
My concern is why sign a central midfielder with potential when we all know, and Kenny has talked about our lack of a LB and lack of width, plus CF cover Frustratingly the purchase of Wickham maybe made more difficult now Bruce has the money to bid against us
Hopefully Henderson doesnt turn into another square peg playing out wide, as Dirk, Maxi & Raul were played last season
If we sign Adam where does that leave the likes of Raul & Shelvey, plus Aquilani, Poulsen & Cole?

185773
13-6-11, 16:32
I watched the game and less than half the england team impressed me.
Smalling, Welbeck and Walker put in a decent performance as did Jones and Sturridge. Henderson made some good tackles and one or two really telling passes. England had little of the ball and Mancienne had a stinker.
Remember Henderson was not surrounded with good players and had Pearce as coach not Dalgleish. Nuff said.
The lad will come good under KD & SC.

JoeRedLabo
13-6-11, 16:39
I think it is a joke tha way new players of clubs get judged these days, because everything is scrutinized an all the games r on telly. Last night someone had on twitter sayin after 1st minute he thought what have we done about henderson an the 20 in to the game he felt diffrent tha kenny might have a little gem coz he played one good ball. it is ridiculous how much pressure they come under.. he is a level headed lad a good player with loads of ability an potential so give him a chance to show it, not judge him off 1 game with a coach like pearce an a mix match team against a classy spain team.

JoeRedLabo
13-6-11, 16:41
SkySportsNews Sky Sports News
Interview with Liverpool new boy Jordan Henderson coming up on Sky Sports News

SweetSilverSeven
13-6-11, 17:37
SkySportsNews Sky Sports News
Interview with Liverpool new boy Jordan Henderson coming up on Sky Sports NewsCant wait!! :scarf

Emilvang
13-6-11, 17:41
I actually thought Henderson played quite well, and could see he would fit perfectly into our playing style. He misplaced a few passes, but that is something you would expect when you play Spain. He got ignored by the defense, who just hoofed the ball. (Jones and Smalling both did it). I was impressed :-)

SweetSilverSeven
13-6-11, 18:00
I actually thought Henderson played quite well, and could see he would fit perfectly into our playing style. He misplaced a few passes, but that is something you would expect when you play Spain. He got ignored by the defense, who just hoofed the ball. (Jones and Smalling both did it). I was impressed :-)
I agree!

It was to England's loss that the england players didn't pass the ball to Henderson rather than bypassing the midfield like we did!

He would've impacted on England's game so much more positively! But what I have seen, when he had the ball, was that technically he was AWESOME, he has good range of passing, and also that he seems like a much quicker thinker than the rest of the england players (that particular thing stuck out like a sore thumb whenever he got the ball)!

He seems like a good pass-and-move type players! He was the only england player who was mainly looking to play shorter passes which would've helped england as they needed to mix their game up with more quality! Wheneever he did play the longer ball, it was intentionally to pick players out players, rather than pump it forward coz he is panicking in possession!

You could see a lot of positives from the lad last night! You can tell he is on a higher wavelength than some of the other up and coming english players :)

There is a reason why Bruce felt that he was one of the best english youngster in the country :scarf

old-school
15-6-11, 22:11
I watched the second half tonight

Not impressed with him TBH, I don't know if it's that donkey Maciene he's playing with or if it's the tactics but he didn't strike me as dynamic or exciting, just came across as an ok Central Midfielder who gives the simple and gives it away when he tries a series of Hollywood style passes.

SCHNAPP
15-6-11, 22:18
I wouldn't read anything into what he does with England.

Barnes used to look a different player for Liverpool than he did for England, so does Gerrard, as does Lampard and numerous others.

Judge him when he is under Dalglish and and team that keeps the ball better.

Venks
15-6-11, 22:20
It would be harsh, as some posters pointed out, on Henderson to judge him on that performance. He was bought to play a specific role in the team and will fit perfectly into the system we are trying to create ( I wish England tried to form a system instead of putting the best 11 together and trying to make it work) His performance for England U-21s should be put down to the players he was surrounded by and the role he was asked to perform in the team ( which obviously was not his strongest)

old-school
15-6-11, 22:22
Let's hope your both right

Graggster
15-6-11, 22:23
I wouldnt take any notice how Henderson plays in this tournament.. it will have no say what so ever on how he will perform in a LFC shirt.

Liverdinner
15-6-11, 22:23
Im just gunna try not to mention him till we play games otherwise I ll go nuts.

Alon1
15-6-11, 22:26
I wouldnt take any notice how Henderson plays in this tournament.. it will have no say what so ever on how he will perform in a LFC shirt.

Graggy, do you think he will be first choice next season? my take is that he will be introduced gradually, as there is a lot of expectation on him that could affect his performances.

Muller2001
15-6-11, 22:27
henderson looked average tonite, as did phil jones defensively, smalling was outstanding tonite.........

Barnseysleftpeg
15-6-11, 22:27
I wouldn't read anything into what he does with England.

Barnes used to look a different player for Liverpool than he did for England, so does Gerrard, as does Lampard and numerous others.

Judge him when he is under Dalglish and and team that keeps the ball better.

Just repped you mate but sometimes I have to :FP: to think that all of what you said needs to be explained. We're all supporters of LFC and we have a long history of our players not performing for England should go without saying right?

Venks
15-6-11, 22:28
Think of how Stevie used to play for England compared to how he played for us.

LivNr9
15-6-11, 22:31
Pearce is playing them very rigidly it seems. (Hodgson like)

They have to stay in shape and Henderson and Mancienne don't venture forward a lot. What you're seeing from him now has a lot to do with the manager.

He'll come good, he's only 20 years old. We shouldn't pressure him like that

Come pre-season we'll start to see what he can give us :scarf

Graggster
15-6-11, 22:32
Graggy, do you think he will be first choice next season? my take is that he will be introduced gradually, as there is a lot of expectation on him that could affect his performances.

Maybe he will maybe he wont.. Im personally not expecting him to be no matter how much he cost. Its not often a player of that age is signed to be first choice.

Yet i do expect him to first choise not so far down the line, maybe next season or season after.

Right now i see him as sqaud player and a peice of a puzzle in a new team building process that probably wont be complete for a few seasons.

TwoDogsRichard
15-6-11, 22:35
Pearce's tactics will hardly get the best out of him. In the first half tonight England effectively bypassed the midfield altogether with long balls out to the wings or towards the strikers. Wait until you see him after some sessions with KK and SC!

SwedishPhil
15-6-11, 23:24
Although not as involved as he should have been, I thought he looked positive and made a couple of runs that, if found, could have led to something. I get the impression that he is a very calm under pressure, and he made some nice touches around the box. Lots of promising attributes, can't wait to see him in a Liverpool kit.

Besides, what was he gonna do in a midfield three with the awful Mancienne and Rodwell?

old-school
15-6-11, 23:48
Pearce is playing them very rigidly it seems. (Hodgson like)

They have to stay in shape and Henderson and Mancienne don't venture forward a lot. What you're seeing from him now has a lot to do with the manager.

He'll come good, he's only 20 years old. We shouldn't pressure him like that

Come pre-season we'll start to see what he can give us :scarf


I noticed this he was static and look average alongside that girly looking Awful player Mancienne !

lucassouness
16-6-11, 02:29
he's been very ordinary in the 2 games, i don't see anything special about this kid, he lacks skill and imagination. Shelvey and Spearing look better by miles. Certainly not worth 16 million. Comoli and daglish missed on this one big time

SerRenely
16-6-11, 02:35
The whole team looks like that except Sturridge so its not really saying much. I don't get the price we paid...even though we don't really know what that is.

RoflKloppter
16-6-11, 02:43
he's been very ordinary in the 2 games, i don't see anything special about this kid, he lacks skill and imagination. Shelvey and Spearing look better by miles. Certainly not worth 16 million. Comoli and daglish missed on this one big time

You criticize Hendo off two games under a crappy manager who plays a system a lot like Wodgson and a defense (a manure defence) who routinely hoof the ball long skipping midfield and handing possession back, he's playing alongside often daft players, at LFC he will be alongside true talent and learn and progress. Watch his games for Sunderland this year and tell me again that you dont see anything in him. Also the 'skill and imagination' you criticize him for, for the love of god you produce Spearo as an example? Imagination and Spearing are not two words that work in a sentence, and Shelvey? One good through ball all season and he has 'skill and imagination'? watch Hendo mate, made about 10 of those passes this year alone ...

BabelCopter
16-6-11, 02:45
he's been very ordinary in the 2 games, i don't see anything special about this kid, he lacks skill and imagination. Shelvey and Spearing look better by miles. Certainly not worth 16 million. Comoli and daglish missed on this one big time

Shelvey and Spearing look bright, and will provide competition for places, which is not a bad thing.

But please, please bear in mind you're judging him on 2 games after a long season, playing with unfamiliar players, in a team which is not his own. We will not begin to be able to judge the quality of the player nor the price tag until near the end of the coming season. Basing the tactical nouse of Comolli and Dalglish on 2 England U21 games is preposterous, tbh.

Barosa
16-6-11, 02:49
he's been very ordinary in the 2 games, i don't see anything special about this kid, he lacks skill and imagination. Shelvey and Spearing look better by miles. Certainly not worth 16 million. Comoli and daglish missed on this one big time

Honestly don't bother judging him from the England games, judge him from Liverpool games seeing as he is our player. Writing him off before he has even kicked a ball for us is odd, he will be playing under Kenny not Stuart Pearce, England U21 team might aswell not have had any central midfield players on the pitch seeing as the tactics are too bypass midfield. He will thrive within pass and move, unlike the England team he will actually be passed too as well as have targets that make space for themselves.

SerRenely
16-6-11, 02:50
hows mata been in it?

Mullerbugs
16-6-11, 02:51
Even Messi looks rubbish when playing for his country by comparison to his Barcelona form so its not saying much at all.

Give the kid a break, he's not kicked a ball for the club and already the armchair managers are on his back, yet lording the likes of Mata who they've probably never watched either.

Maybe theres a prize for being the biggest pessimist on the forum because the desperation to say "he's rubbish" so that you can tell us all you told us first is unbearable.

All we need is a dodgy moustache and the Babelcopter and we'll be set. Now i must go and read this quality book i found at car boot last week by Gary Neville, "LFC TIL I DIE" theres probably less hatred in there for the Liverpool players than whats on here.

Come on Hendo, stick it to em....

TomHighwaysM16
16-6-11, 08:17
I think Henderson will be very good player for us. I didn't know anything about him a month ago, but have watched 4 of his games by then.

1. He understands the game. By that I mean he is aware of teammates position and that's the biggest quality a midfielder can have.

2. Pass & move is his strength. Without ever been trained by Dalglish, he is already doing it pretty well.

3. Long ball is very good, still not as good as Gerrard's but he can improve on that.

4. He creates chances. Almost everything that happened for England U21 in the games I watched started from one of his key passes or link up play. He is not Messi to create solo chances, but he will do well in a better team.

5. Lack of aggression. The only downside which might not be his fault is lack of aggression. He tends to watch the ball instead of going for it like Mascherano. But that's the story of entire England U21 team. It might be down to team tactics.

Macthemouth
16-6-11, 09:37
I'll put my hands-up and say I've only seen him play maybe 4 or 5 times; but you can see he has some decent qualities. He's always moving, always making himself available. For Sunderland (on the couple of times I watched them) they tended to play through him quite a bit and he looked decent; but for England Under 21s they don't seem to want to use him in the same way - even when he comes deep, I think that's more to do with how they're set up in midfield and the lack of really decent width. Basically it makes him look anonymous for large parts of the game. But he's got a decent range of passing and isn't all about the 'hollywood ball' either, he's quite happy to keep it simple, move the ball on and keep possession. The one area where I do have a question mark is his ability in the tackle; he stands players up and tries to intercept rather than looking to tackle and break up. If he wants a regular 1st team place with us he's going to need to learn a few things from Stevie and Lucas - which to be fair he's said himself. Forget the money paid for him, that's what 'potential' now costs, get over it. I'd only really start judging him when he pulls on the famous red shirt, not the England one.

AussieT
16-6-11, 09:52
I think Henderson will be very good player for us. I didn't know anything about him a month ago, but have watched 4 of his games by then.

1. He understands the game. By that I mean he is aware of teammates position and that's the biggest quality a midfielder can have.

2. Pass & move is his strength. Without ever been trained by Dalglish, he is already doing it pretty well.

3. Long ball is very good, still not as good as Gerrard's but he can improve on that.

4. He creates chances. Almost everything that happened for England U21 in the games I watched started from one of his key passes or link up play. He is not Messi to create solo chances, but he will do well in a better team.

5. Lack of aggression. The only downside which might not be his fault is lack of aggression. He tends to watch the ball instead of going for it like Mascherano. But that's the story of entire England U21 team. It might be down to team tactics.

Not that I would judge him on the 4 matches I have seen him play (2 vs us and the 2 x u21 matches) But I would argue that his passing has been largely ****,

CharlieManson
16-6-11, 09:56
Doesnt see much of the ball in the two u21 games i have watched him play in, Did have a good run at goal towards the end, Looks like he is decent on the ball, once he gels with kennys system he will be very good i think. KENNY KNOWS WHAT HES DOING.

Alpha Papa
16-6-11, 10:33
I didn't see last night's game. Anyone got a summary? Preferably someone reasonably neutral in the whole 'brilliant or terrible' debate ;)

-MagicNumber10-
16-6-11, 10:35
I didn't see last night's game. Anyone got a summary? Preferably someone reasonably neutral in the whole 'brilliant or terrible' debate ;)

He was average. To be fair to him though the whole team were poor, he didn't see much of the ball.

weet
16-6-11, 11:43
he wasn't good but people make good points. It was England and they are being coached by Stuart Pearce so no one should go expecting great things.

-Gola-
16-6-11, 11:47
whatever level it is england destroys players

i dont think it would matter who the manager was they'd still always play terribly

TomHighwaysM16
16-6-11, 12:45
he wasn't good but people make good points. It was England and they are being coached by Stuart Pearce so no one should go expecting great things.

He wasn't passed to. Simply put, England don't play passing game.

CharlieManson
16-6-11, 12:49
He wasn't passed to. Simply put, England don't play passing game.

Stuart Pierce style of play is horrific. Its a cheap Tottenham Hotspur style of play without playing through the middle. Henderson hardly seen the ball lastnight. I hope they go out so we can have him back home unscathed.

Alpha Papa
16-6-11, 12:50
He was average. To be fair to him though the whole team were poor, he didn't see much of the ball.

Thanks for the update. Couldn't believe it when I saw them starting with Mancienne again...

TomHighwaysM16
16-6-11, 12:57
Thanks for the update. Couldn't believe it when I saw them starting with Mancienne again...

I don't think it's down to players. Benitez would probably play good football with that team. It's not like Ukraine were Barcelona. Pearce was a full back.

I'm having hard time to remember a full back who was successful as a coach.

DontBelieveTheHype
16-6-11, 13:11
England play with no imagination and lots of fear. They are disciplined and hard working but the fundamentals of passing seem to be lost. Always seems to be a case of try holding the ball for a bit, realise we can't then just get the effin ball to the striker as fast as possible.

welshred1978
16-6-11, 13:11
one thing I noticed was his work rate was excellent.he was one of the furthest forward putting in crosses and taking a shot on the edge of the box and each time the Ukraine broke he was the first one back infront of the back four breaking up their attacks

alwaysonside
16-6-11, 13:47
One of the things that stand out for me, and consequently, one of the reasons why his England U21 performances have been average so far, is the fact that he isn't a typical English player. He doesn't get stuck in (quintessentially English), he doesn't run around like a headless chicken, and he isn't poor in possession ("the ball is your enemy" has been the England team's mantra for years now at all levels). Instead, he is technically gifted, and he is intelligent - something that comes across in his use of the ball when in possession, his movement and his passing. While this makes him a poor fit for the national squad, he has the raw attributes to be an archetypal Kenny player.

Incidentally, Manciene, who would struggle to play for our U18s, but ticks all the "English player" boxes, and is thus the captain, continues to start games and be involved during the games. Go figure.

RyanBabylon
16-6-11, 18:16
His performance vs. us (http://www.footylounge.com/films//milankakabaros/jordan-henderson-v-liverpool-26092010-video_279064582.html) earlier this season, courtesy of MilanKakaBaros Films.

Hillmountain
16-6-11, 19:27
One of the things that stand out for me, and consequently, one of the reasons why his England U21 performances have been average so far, is the fact that he isn't a typical English player. He doesn't get stuck in (quintessentially English), he doesn't run around like a headless chicken, and he isn't poor in possession ("the ball is your enemy" has been the England team's mantra for years now at all levels). Instead, he is technically gifted, and he is intelligent - something that comes across in his use of the ball when in possession, his movement and his passing. While this makes him a poor fit for the national squad, he has the raw attributes to be an archetypal Kenny player.

Incidentally, Manciene, who would struggle to play for our U18s, but ticks all the "English player" boxes, and is thus the captain, continuing to start games and be involved during the games. Go figure.

Very good post. I think that he resembles Meireles in his style of play actually, the kind of players we need for the kind of football we want. We will have the be patient with his early contributions, but in the long term I think he can be a important player for us. Cant wait for the pre-season games.

kopitekid2010
16-6-11, 20:09
hi everyone, just wondering if any of you have watched the under 21s and ive noticed how good henderson actually is, he reminds me abit like gerrard :D

L1verFC
16-6-11, 20:10
We should sign him !
:eek:

Ibbbss
16-6-11, 21:43
I remember watching Nani in a youth tournament once and he was absolutely rubbish, I'm reserving my judgement on Henderson until I see him play official games with Liverpool.

L1verFC
16-6-11, 21:49
I remember watching Nani in a youth tournament once and he was absolutely rubbish, I'm reserving my judgement on Henderson until I see him play official games with Liverpool.

Exactly I will not judge Henderson unitil at least a few months in a Liverpool shirt plus even rodwell has not stood out for England and he is a good player even sturridge has not been great and just look how well he has done this season.

So the England team is not a place to judge players , the whole team looks ridged. Let's just see how Henderson does in a red shirt playing good passing football

SerRenely
16-6-11, 22:52
Clearly the guy is getting more stick because he cost a lot....or at least what was speculated. Commoli did say it was not that figure, but it I will be honest I still gawk at that fee compared to say Jojo Shelvey's fee. In any case its not Henderson's fault he cost a lot, but it comes with the deal I guess.

KeemI
16-6-11, 23:28
Even Messi looks rubbish when playing for his country by comparison to his Barcelona form so its not saying much at all


This is a myth.Messi still shines for Argies except he isn't as prolific.

doughts28
17-6-11, 00:00
I may be wrong here, but I don't remember there being that much hype over Jack Wilshere during his loan spell at Bolton? I think he was regarded as a bright young English talent rather than a potential world beater which he now is. At Sunderland, Henderson was regarded as a bright young English talent (admittedly less so in the second half of the season).

At Arsenal, Wilshere has been able to look very good because he has intelligent players around him, and his technical abilities are better suited to a passing team like Arsenal rather than a midtable team like sunderland. In a year's time, I think we will be able to substitute "Wilshere" for Henderson, "Arsenal" for "Kenny Dalglish's Liverpool" and "Bolton" for "Sunderland", and admire what an intelligent and technical player we have on our hands, a rarity in the English game. (However, don;t think he'll be as good as Wilshere, he has less to his all round game)

Having clever players around him should take his game to the next level; Lucas and Mereiles are very good at consistently offering an option for the pass, which is something he has lacked at Sunderland and probably England U21s (only watched half an hour of the Spain match, so can't really judge, although he was far from exceptional). Cannot wait to see what a spell in a pass and move team under Kenny Dalglish will do for someone who is clearly intelligent and gifted. His game definately needs refining, but he can be really, really good with the right players around him :scarf

PeachOfAGoal
17-6-11, 23:05
What annoys me about the way Henderson's transfer has been reported is that originally it was guessed that the fee was around 13 million or possibly 16 million plus Ngog. Fair enough.

But then once the Ngog part of the transfer fell through (if it was ever on), the media continued to report it as a 20 million transfer!!

Anyway, I'm a little late with this post but just wanted to share... :)

speedy1
18-6-11, 08:28
I saw the interview with Pearce last night and decided to give the game a miss. I know it's his job to defend the players but to justify the poor technique and lack of passing and possession as "that's just the way England teams play. That's the English game and we will never play like Spain in a hundred years" seems to say it all really. He was defending it like it was reasonable for world class team with desigs on winning major championships to play thatvway. No wonder Henderon looks terrible and anonymous in that team. he plays pass and move and that is why we bought him.
So glad we did not get Jones btw he makes Carra look like xavi!
Henderson will be fine when surrounded by a team that plays the same way. That team is LFC
:scarf

Klopportunity
18-6-11, 08:51
I saw the interview with Pearce last night and decided to give the game a miss. I know it's his job to defend the players but to justify the poor technique and lack of passing and possession as "that's just the way England teams play. That's the English game and we will never play like Spain in a hundred years" seems to say it all really. He was defending it like it was reasonable for world class team with desigs on winning major championships to play thatvway. No wonder Henderon looks terrible and anonymous in that team. he plays pass and move and that is why we bought him.
So glad we did not get Jones btw he makes Carra look like xavi!
Henderson will be fine when surrounded by a team that plays the same way. That team is LFC
:scarf

I would rather Mclaren take over along with a whole load of other managers I have previously loathed. Pearce is a poor man's Hodgson with none of the experience and is detrimental to England's youth development.

Heaven forbid that this were to actually happen, but someone like Clarke or Pep are who should be managing the likes of a England's youth. Someone looking to get some experience as manager before stepping into a team, but comes with real credentials and potential to be something great when they are ready.

Pearce needs to go.

18ANDCOUNTING
18-6-11, 11:47
I have said this on a previous post that kenny will see things completely different than the majority of us fans .
Where most of us watch his performance within his respective teams tactics and players , kenny will see him within his own tactics and with who he will play along side . something none of us know yet .
It's very easy to get carried away with performances in a different team but until he pulls on the red shirt an plays along side his new team mates with his new tactics i will reserve judgement .

Hobbes.
18-6-11, 11:55
I have said this on a previous post that kenny will see things completely different than the majority of us fans .
Where most of us watch his performance within his respective teams tactics and players , kenny will see him within his own tactics and with who he will play along side . something none of us know yet .
It's very easy to get carried away with performances in a different team but until he pulls on the red shirt an plays along side his new team mates with his new tactics i will reserve judgement .

To be fair, I'm sure those more understanding of the game will understand that he doesnt fit into Pearces crap side.

I see a player who has a mix of Lucas, Raul, and Stevie in him. He is very patient and is being asked to play in a team that is a polar opposite to the style of our play.

He likes one-twos, and is not doing so for the U21s becuase, when he is on the ball, there is no white shirt within 20m of him. Therefore he is forced to send a long ball, in the hope that one of the lads wins it.

Under Kenny, when a player is on the ball, he will receive at least 3 options: Back, Sideways, or to the third man running behind the back line.

I feel Jordan will do well for us

Fowi
18-6-11, 11:57
I saw the interview with Pearce last night and decided to give the game a miss. I know it's his job to defend the players but to justify the poor technique and lack of passing and possession as "that's just the way England teams play. That's the English game and we will never play like Spain in a hundred years" seems to say it all really. He was defending it like it was reasonable for world class team with desigs on winning major championships to play thatvway. No wonder Henderon looks terrible and anonymous in that team. he plays pass and move and that is why we bought him.
So glad we did not get Jones btw he makes Carra look like xavi!
Henderson will be fine when surrounded by a team that plays the same way. That team is LFC
:scarf

I understand that England can't play like Spain, but can they at least play like Poland? Romania? Sudan?

18ANDCOUNTING
18-6-11, 11:59
To be fair, I'm sure those more understanding of the game will understand that he doesnt fit into Pearces crap side.

I see a player who has a mix of Lucas, Raul, and Stevie in him. He is very patient and is being asked to play in a team that is a polar opposite to the style of our play.

He likes one-twos, and is not doing so for the U21s becuase, when he is on the ball, there is no white shirt within 20m of him. Therefore he is forced to send a long ball, in the hope that one of the lads wins it.

Under Kenny, when a player is on the ball, he will receive at least 3 options: Back, Sideways, or to the third man running behind the back line.

I feel Jordan will do well for us


Absolutely , and that's why Kenny bought him as he will fit into our style much better . Will be interesting to see who plays along side him . He can even be used on the right to mix the formations during the game . really excited about him ... well you know what i mean :D

Defo-skitso
19-6-11, 17:28
Lets see what he does tonight, i think hes a decent enough signing, hes young and can be brough on development wise at our club. The one thing that i noticed about him is that he has a bit of a liverpool way about him (play it simple!)

SweetSilverSeven
19-6-11, 17:53
To be fair, I'm sure those more understanding of the game will understand that he doesnt fit into Pearces crap side.

I see a player who has a mix of Lucas, Raul, and Stevie in him. He is very patient and is being asked to play in a team that is a polar opposite to the style of our play.

He likes one-twos, and is not doing so for the U21s becuase, when he is on the ball, there is no white shirt within 20m of him. Therefore he is forced to send a long ball, in the hope that one of the lads wins it.

Under Kenny, when a player is on the ball, he will receive at least 3 options: Back, Sideways, or to the third man running behind the back line.

I feel Jordan will do well for us

I agree with this!

The lad is trying to do the right things, get the ball down and play (not maunch the ball), try to play the shorter passes and the one two's but no one will reciprocate, and you can tell that he is much more of a quick thinker than anyone else in the england midfield - he's on a different wavelenght to pearce and his tactics!

bonou2
19-6-11, 20:08
Can't believe we paid 20mill for this guy he is so average I just hope kenny can get the best out of him

robbieflowerpot
19-6-11, 20:10
Can't believe we paid 20mill for this guy he is so average I just hope kenny can get the best out of him

I don't think we'll know one way or the other until he's here with better players. And it wasn't that much was it?

Navredman
19-6-11, 20:12
Excellent thread, just simply brilliant.

Hi Paul did you forget this, :rolleyes:








:D

Alpha Papa
19-6-11, 20:13
Good 5-10 minutes with Henderson right in the middle of everything.

JohnBarnesJnr
19-6-11, 20:15
Meanwhile Mata (who we are never gonna sign) has scored.

LovelyCushionedHeader
19-6-11, 20:24
Poisitiong has looked ok his passing has looked dyabolicle.