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JohnstoneC
29-7-11, 08:17
Clearly it's far Too early to judge our new signings but was it really a good idea to spend nearly 100M on British players given that England and Scotland get played off the park by pretty much every team around? We have lots of hard workers but very little in the way of technical players who can unlock a defence. More creativity needed ASAP I reckon. For the money we've spent we could have signed Cavani, Aguero, Mata and Hazard :eek:

We might still nick fourth with our current squad but only because KK is so amazing.

Luca05-10-09
29-7-11, 08:19
Clearly it's far Too early to judge our new signings but was it really a good idea to spend nearly 100M on British players given that England and Scotland get played off the park by pretty much every team around? We have lots of hard workers but very little in the way of technical players who can unlock a defence. More creativity needed ASAP I reckon. For the money we've spent we could have signed Cavani, Aguero, Mata and Hazard :eek:

We might still nick fourth with our current squad but only because KK is so amazing.

We needed a winger. Check.

We needed someone who could put their foot on the ball and dictate a game. Check.

We need a left back. Not yet.


We need cover at cb. Not yet.

It isnt all about the star signings mate

Lomes
29-7-11, 08:20
We've got a nice balance of British and International Players. Meireles, Suarez, Lucas, Skrtel, Agger.

JohnstoneC
29-7-11, 08:22
I hope you're right. My main point is about Brits vs other nationalities - Brits are generally crap at football - apart from Stevie obvs but he's broken now :D

djskuff
29-7-11, 08:23
Tbh I'm happy with who we have bought, but the lack of quality backup at the back is slightly worrying. When looking at all the teams around us, that have been playing reserves in their preseasons etc none have conceeded anything like the amount we have. We need another CD and a LB if we want to try to compete

tracetherain
29-7-11, 08:39
Clearly it's far Too early to judge our new signings but was it really a good idea to spend nearly 100M on British players given that England and Scotland get played off the park by pretty much every team around? We have lots of hard workers but very little in the way of technical players who can unlock a defence. More creativity needed ASAP I reckon. For the money we've spent we could have signed Cavani, Aguero, Mata and Hazard :eek:

We might still nick fourth with our current squad but only because KK is so amazing.

I've said this in other threads, but I guess that's what happens, when we get about 234 threads with the same exact content.

wages Wages Wages, Look at Aguero's wages and tell me we could have got him for what we paid for any single player in our squad.

Any proof that ANY of the players you listed WANTED to come to LFC and we just didnt bid?...didn't think so:FP:

bonou2
29-7-11, 08:40
Time will tell 100million is a lot of money and imo 78 of it has been spent on very average players kenny will be under massive pressure to at the very least get into the champions league and if he doesn't our owners have the right to ask why and question kenny

Bali2
29-7-11, 08:45
I've said this in other threads, but I guess that's what happens, when we get about 234 threads with the same exact content.

wages Wages Wages, Look at Aguero's wages and tell me we could have got him for what we paid for any single player in our squad.

Any proof that ANY of the players you listed WANTED to come to LFC and we just didnt bid?...didn't think so:FP:

:BH:

I dunno why you're bothering with him. The number of fans who don't know about our financial standing and our reasons for NOT paying stupid wages, is unreal. Aguero is on £200k a week! No way in hell we'd match that, and nor should we.

Well said btw.

YNWA

tracetherain
29-7-11, 08:49
Time will tell 100million is a lot of money and imo 78 of it has been spent on very average players kenny will be under massive pressure to at the very least get into the champions league and if he doesn't our owners have the right to ask why and question kenny

Yeah because this is exclusive to Kenny, Wonder if he knew that when he took the job.... :BH:

Alon1
29-7-11, 08:50
i haven't got a clue, and i don't know how can anyone tell before most of them haven't played together.

Kloppette
29-7-11, 08:50
I'm happy with our signings if they do well, if they don't I'm not. Bringing in Aguero and Mata is not a recipe for success they are just good players building a team is key.

Aguero is ideal for City if he is replacing Tevez
Mata is ideal for Arsenal if they are replacing Nasri

photoholic
29-7-11, 08:55
and a massive influx of foreign players will help us fulfill our soon to be imposed quota of home grown players how exactly? :FP:

Another reason the Academy is so important to our long term plans, get players in young enough and keep them long enough and they qualify as "home grown"

Get it now? :P

dixielee
29-7-11, 08:57
Augero£35m+Mata£15=Carroll£35m+Henderson£16m ...your money will be on?

BeautifulHistory
29-7-11, 08:58
Clearly it's far Too early to judge our new signings but was it really a good idea to spend nearly 100M on British players given that England and Scotland get played off the park by pretty much every team around? We have lots of hard workers but very little in the way of technical players who can unlock a defence. More creativity needed ASAP I reckon. For the money we've spent we could have signed Cavani, Aguero, Mata and Hazard :eek:

We might still nick fourth with our current squad but only because KK is so amazing.


Yet another topic based on purely the fact our preseason hasn't been brilliant and we haven't put our strongest 11 together

Let's look at our midfield and strikeforce this season what we've got available barring injuries to players
----------------------Lucas-------Adam-----------
Henderson----------------Suárez---------------Downing
---------------------------Carroll---------

Last year taking into account injuries to players and players what we had at our disposal

--------------------Spearing-------Poulsen-------
Maxi-----------------------Cole------------------Jovanovic--
----------------------------N'Gog---------

I think hundred million has improved our team

Seanosdelgardo
29-7-11, 08:59
i haven't got a clue, and i don't know how can anyone tell before most of them haven't played together.

Come on Alon, you know by now you cant talk sense around here. Pick a side.

Sneets
29-7-11, 09:00
Clearly it's far Too early to judge our new signings but was it really a good idea to spend nearly 100M on British players given that England and Scotland get played off the park by pretty much every team around? We have lots of hard workers but very little in the way of technical players who can unlock a defence. More creativity needed ASAP I reckon. For the money we've spent we could have signed Cavani, Aguero, Mata and Hazard :eek:

We might still nick fourth with our current squad but only because KK is so amazing.

Your writing as if that team tonight was the team that will play for us in the PL which just goes to show your complete ignorance of the club and the players we have on the books.

Every single one of your posts is negative towards the club. Why don't you just go away and plague some other club's website with your poison.

MarsPirate
29-7-11, 09:03
we will only be able to answer that at the end of the season.

if we make progress and get back into Europe then yes it will be worth it as that should then propel us to a higher level and ofcourse a tract a big superstar if needed.

the top 4 is harder to break than ever and soon they will be calling it a top 5 so if we make progress under kenny then yes every penny worth it. if we dont get into top 4 then perhaps not.

InsomniacOlympics
29-7-11, 09:07
Augero£35m+Mata£15=Carroll£35m+Henderson£16m ...your money will be on?

Aguero is £38M with £200K a week wages (£10.4 M a year). Carroll is £35M with 70K max a week wages (£3.6M a year). Mata hasn't even transferred yet, and who knows what he will be like.

Henderson has shown signs of quality is 20 years old. 3 years younger than Aguero and Mata. And can't be on more than 50K a week.

Can't really compare.

GeorgeLFC
29-7-11, 09:11
technical players who can unlock a defence.

Of all the things said so far in all our pre season games or even from last year this is the thing that concerns me most. Suarez is the most creative player in the squad its coz of his contributions we finished where we did and without him we struggled even in Europa. After him I think Stevie is the next but he's moving more in the CM position plus there is uncertainty about his fitness.

I'm concerned and excited at the same time to see who's gonna step up along with or in the absence of Suarez to take up that responsibility to be the major creative force. Who has that ability to open defences, dictate the team play, create chances and So far atleast in the friendlies I have seen no one apart from Aquilani but he's off anyway. But as the OP says too early to judge, May be Adam and Henderson have what it takes. We'll wait and see.

tracetherain
29-7-11, 09:13
Augero 200k a week+ Mata 100k a week=Carroll100k a week+Henderson probably 50-60k a week ...your money will be on?

Fixed it for ya:D

Kloppette
29-7-11, 09:14
Fixed it for ya:D

Carroll is on 45k a week and Henderson about 35k a week

InsomniacOlympics
29-7-11, 09:26
Carroll is on 45k a week and Henderson about 35k a week

Yup, but I think Carroll would be on more than 45K less than 70K, Henderson 35-45K.

Daymo68
29-7-11, 09:29
Its easy saying we could have signed this player that player or the other. However would they have wanted to come? No Champions league and all that. Its far too early to say if this money is well spent. Judge come the end of the season as thats the time to have a better idea of judgement.

RaraFinXI
29-7-11, 09:31
I think the majority of us will agree that the likes of Carroll, Downing and Henderson were overpriced but this homegrown rule is coming into play soon.

IMO, KK and JH have decided to snap up the best homegrown talent in the country and think paying so much money will be beneficial. So come 2013, we'll be sorted in that department. Then we may see them going for some of the best talent accross europe when other teams may be forced to look at homegrown players.

If FSG provide KK with a decent sized transfer kitty next summer, we can go for the Hazards, Matas etc as we will already have a tremendous homegrown spine in Kelly (maybe), Gerrard, Henderson, Adam and Carroll.

TheKarlHeinzeRiddler
29-7-11, 09:31
Aguero is £38M with £200K a week wages (£10.4 M a year). Carroll is £35M with 70K max a week wages (£3.6M a year). Mata hasn't even transferred yet, and who knows what he will be like.

Henderson has shown signs of quality is 20 years old. 3 years younger than Aguero and Mata. And can't be on more than 50K a week.

Can't really compare.

Andy Carroll wasn't actually £35m, it was £35m with add-ons, I believe (based on what's been discussed amongst ex players and people close to the club) it's nearer £21m up front, Hendo was c £9m upfront but your point is absolutely valid.

If you introduce a player to your club on £200k a week, you implant a cancer to your squad as jealousy and demands for parity creep in. City will get immediate success with their strategy but (and their fans are all too aware of this) it simply can't be sustainable due to fair play regulations and also, more importantly, team harmony.

I'm happy with our signings to date and oddly, happy with our pre-season as it leaves no uncertaintities as to where we need to strengthen; I'm Kenny and Commoli are both working ardently on these issues as we speak.

Alpha Papa
29-7-11, 09:57
I'm happy with our signings if they do well, if they don't I'm not. Bringing in Aguero and Mata is not a recipe for success they are just good players building a team is key.

Aguero is ideal for City if he is replacing Tevez
Mata is ideal for Arsenal if they are replacing Nasri

Nail - head.

Fowi
29-7-11, 09:58
IMO no.

RafaLaBamba
29-7-11, 09:59
80mill on british talent ;)

gedzredz
29-7-11, 10:06
If we've factored a good left back, a centre back and a quick cheap striker into our summer spending but just haven't got them yet then I'd say we've spent well this summer.

If we are now finished or find ourselves in a situation where we must sell to buy then we have had a terrible summer.

AussieT
29-7-11, 10:07
We needed a winger. Check.

We needed someone who could put their foot on the ball and dictate a game. Check.

We need a left back. Not yet.


We need cover at cb. Not yet.

It isnt all about the star signings mate

We need more than cover here. We need a high quality CB to start and let one of the currents be "cover"

InsomniacOlympics
29-7-11, 10:10
Could have bought QPR , link (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=265398) :FP: :D :p

L1verFC
29-7-11, 10:11
Tbh I'm happy with who we have bought, but the lack of quality backup at the back is slightly worrying. When looking at all the teams around us, that have been playing reserves in their preseasons etc none have conceeded anything like the amount we have. We need another CD and a LB if we want to try to compete

This.

Without doubt we need a CB & LB but I think Cb at the moment is the most important, we can make do with players covering for LB until January maybe I knows it's not ideal but I'd rather have a Cb first so we don't have to see the Greek anywhere near the first team.

red6
29-7-11, 10:17
Aguero is £38M with £200K a week wages (£10.4 M a year). Carroll is £35M with 70K max a week wages (£3.6M a year). Mata hasn't even transferred yet, and who knows what he will be like.

Henderson has shown signs of quality is 20 years old. 3 years younger than Aguero and Mata. And can't be on more than 50K a week.

Can't really compare.

But is Henderson an improvement on Spearing or a better prospect than Conor Coady? Will Carroll ever get himself fit enough to get on the end of a Downing cross or an Adam throughball?

ElAlonso
29-7-11, 10:20
I don't really think so.

People are going on about how superstars aren't as good in a team than team players, in some cases that is true, but Downing and Carroll (potentially two thirds of our attack) play generally in one particular way.

Kuyt Suarez Mata looks so much more fluid than Dowing Carroll Suarez.

Superstars are superstars for a reason, they are match winners as well as team players.

Pete_lad2014
29-7-11, 10:27
Carroll is on 45k a week and Henderson about 35k a week

The reports around the time Suarez and Carrol stated Andy was on 80-90k pw while Suarez was on 70-80k pw.

Apparently are new signing are on

Henderson 40-60k
Adam 40-60k
Downing 70-80k

Mike-91
29-7-11, 10:28
Indeed.

100mill well spent.

grenny158
29-7-11, 10:30
I don't really think so.

People are going on about how superstars aren't as good in a team than team players, in some cases that is true, but Downing and Carroll (potentially two thirds of our attack) play generally in one particular way.

Kuyt Suarez Mata looks so much more fluid than Dowing Carroll Suarez.

Superstars are superstars for a reason, they are match winners as well as team players.

Since when could Mata be called a 'superstar'?

In my opinion, he has a long way to go before he falls into that category.

ElAlonso
29-7-11, 10:32
Since when could Mata be called a 'superstar'?

In my opinion, he has a long way to go before he falls into that category.

I wasn't talking about Mata particularly, but yes, he's much closer to that status than Downing.

grenny158
29-7-11, 10:34
I wasn't talking about Mata particularly, but yes, he's much closer to that status than Downing.

In my opinion, neither of them are even close to that status.

Sneets
29-7-11, 10:36
I wasn't talking about Mata particularly, but yes, he's much closer to that status than Downing.

Except Mata is not a true winger and his positional game is more similar to Suarez who is a far superior player. Mata is miles away from being a super star, except to those wearing rose tinted glasses.

ElAlonso
29-7-11, 10:37
I rate Mata so highly, I honestly think he could've fitted us better than Silva could've the year Rafa was in for him.

Mata is one of the top creative players in spain...

ElAlonso
29-7-11, 10:38
Except Mata is not a true winger and his positional game is more similar to Suarez who is a far superior player. Mata is miles away from being a super star, except to those wearing rose tinted glasses.

I really hate this 'true winger' obsession. Successful clubs don't need them, the only reason we think it's vital because of the inclusion of Carroll.

Mike-91
29-7-11, 10:41
I really hate this 'true winger' obsession. Successful clubs don't need them, the only reason we think it's vital because of the inclusion of Carroll.

Oh of course.

Not like Liverpool fans haven't being shouting for a real winger for years and years and years and years.

We needed a true winger who will give us proper width. We got it.

wadsten
29-7-11, 10:41
We'll just have to wait and see. Also, you can't say that we could have bought Cavani, Mata, Aguero etc for this amount of money, because we have no way of knowing if they would even consider a move here.

You could always argument that we have a big history and can still attract top players. That's true with some players, and more certainly british players but from for example Cavani's or Aguero's point of view, why would they go to us instead of staying or playing for a CL club?

That's just what I think anyway.

PHIL.
29-7-11, 10:41
I think so.

LLS
29-7-11, 10:42
The money we've spent so far has been decently spent. Can't really judge until we see everyone play, but they're all good players and will certainly strengthen us.

Then strength in depth shouldn't be underestimated either, because if we can add a good left back, our first XI will be one of the best in the League, and we'll finally have a strong squad to support it too.

I don't think we needed two central midfielders though.


Except Mata is not a true winger and his positional game is more similar to Suarez who is a far superior player. Mata is miles away from being a super star, except to those wearing rose tinted glasses.

Ridiculous.

Mike-91
29-7-11, 10:43
Oh and of course you don't need them to be successful. That's why Man Utd have only won the league title 4 times out of the last 5 seasons.

Silly Utd.

AussieT
29-7-11, 10:44
I really hate this 'true winger' obsession. Successful clubs don't need them, the only reason we think it's vital because of the inclusion of Carroll.

Dunno, United have won how many titles on the last 20 years because of quality wingers?

LovelyCushionedHeader
29-7-11, 10:49
Why are we judging players who've not yet kicked a ball for us competitivly? On paper I look at the signings and think maybe we could have got better for the money however I struggle to pick out names we're not in the Champions League so that does eliminate a huge bracket of players who possibly where available to us, Foreign doesn't always mean better.

ElAlonso
29-7-11, 10:52
Oh of course.

Not like Liverpool fans haven't being shouting for a real winger for years and years and years and years.

We needed a true winger who will give us proper width. We got it.

Having a winger limits the striker talent you could have in a team, that's why so many successful teams play three forwards and use their full backs for the width. Hasn't really proved to be too unsuccessful has it?



Oh and of course you don't need them to be successful. That's why Man Utd have only won the league title 4 times out of the last 5 seasons.

Silly Utd.

I hate it when people enter a discussion and treat some of the members on herE like children. I'm well aware of the wingers United use / used. They surely puts to bed the theory as to why wingers are also fundamental to Munich, Inter, Barcelona, Madrid, Chelsea, Lille, Dortmund us in 08.09 etc.

Sneets
29-7-11, 10:56
I really hate this 'true winger' obsession. Successful clubs don't need them, the only reason we think it's vital because of the inclusion of Carroll.

Then why do United have about four of them? Young, Nani, Valencia and Park. They do not have a centre forward like Carroll.

Sneets
29-7-11, 10:59
The money we've spent so far has been decently spent. Can't really judge until we see everyone play, but they're all good players and will certainly strengthen us.

Then strength in depth shouldn't be underestimated either, because if we can add a good left back, our first XI will be one of the best in the League, and we'll finally have a strong squad to support it too.

I don't think we needed two central midfielders though.



Ridiculous.

What is ridiculous about saying Mata is not a superstar, he just isn't.

ElAlonso
29-7-11, 11:00
Then why do United have about four of them? Young, Nani, Valencia and Park. They do not have a centre forward like Carroll.

Young, Nani and Park are no way 'wingers' in the traditional sense. My point is you don't want to waste striker numbers by having a player who hugs the touchline always. Having someone like Nani, Kuyt, Pedro, Di Maria etc in your team means they drift wide to create width, but when the ball is on the other wing, or their sided full back comes forward, they slip inside to make up more numbers in the attack.

Valencia is the only United player who can be considered a traditional winger, and as brilliant as he was when he came back from injury United managed fine without him for over half the season so you can't really say he was 'fundamental' can you?

TheKarlHeinzeRiddler
29-7-11, 11:05
Could have bought QPR , link (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=265398) :FP: :D :p

For £100m we could have bought Everton 100,000 times over.

Sneets
29-7-11, 11:07
Young, Nani and Park are no way 'wingers' in the traditional sense. My point is you don't want to waste striker numbers by having a player who hugs the touchline always. Having someone like Nani, Kuyt, Pedro, Di Maria etc in your team means they drift wide to create width, but when the ball is on the other wing, or their sided full back comes forward, they slip inside to make up more numbers in the attack.

Valencia is the only United player who can be considered a traditional winger, and as brilliant as he was when he came back from injury United managed fine without him for over half the season so you can't really say he was 'fundamental' can you?

All wingers cut in and that includes Downing. Nani provided many of the assists for United earlier on last season by getting to the bye line and crossing in true winger fashion. I would agree that Young and Park do that less so, but in Nani and Valencia they have two true wingers who contributed considerably to their success in the PL.

LLS
29-7-11, 11:07
What is ridiculous about saying Mata is not a superstar, he just isn't.

I love how you go around calling people ignorant all the time, and then say that Mata is miles away from being a superstar.

Macthemouth
29-7-11, 11:09
It's easy to get hung up on the prices we've paid, but value is subjective - and the price paid for any player is based on a huge number of variables. So 100M well spent - who can say?! What I see with Kenny's signings so far (but taking into account we have no idea who we've bid for or not, and the transfer window is open for a good while yet) is that he's making incremental changes designed to make us a more effective and efficient team; he's not it seems going for a 'big bang' approach and looking to make us a flair team overnight. It's a strategy that fits with owners also. You get the feeling with his signings he's working to a 3 or 4 year plan designed to see us challenge and retain a top 4 slot, and perhaps when we get to that level we'll see some extra flair added into the mix, possibly some that we've developed in-house and therefore the money spent issue becomes even more irrelevant.

Luca05-10-09
29-7-11, 11:10
Young, Nani and Park are no way 'wingers' in the traditional sense. My point is you don't want to waste striker numbers by having a player who hugs the touchline always. Having someone like Nani, Kuyt, Pedro, Di Maria etc in your team means they drift wide to create width, but when the ball is on the other wing, or their sided full back comes forward, they slip inside to make up more numbers in the attack.

Valencia is the only United player who can be considered a traditional winger, and as brilliant as he was when he came back from injury United managed fine without him for over half the season so you can't really say he was 'fundamental' can you?

Nani and Young are wingers. just because they dont knock the ball 20 yards down the line , run on to it and cross it in doesnt mean there not. You watch them both, they stick to the wings more often than not

Sneets
29-7-11, 11:10
I love how you go around calling people ignorant all the time, and then say that Mata is miles away from being a superstar.

I love the way that you believe any hype that you read, follow the herd springs to mind.

PaddockBeanie
29-7-11, 11:10
I hope you're right. My main point is about Brits vs other nationalities - Brits are generally crap at football - apart from Stevie obvs but he's broken now :D

:FP:

Who provides the core to every successful championship side? Brits.. idiotic point.

Arsenal have certainly done well since fielding an all foreign side.

United - Scholes, Giggs, Fletcher, Carrick, Rooney, Ferdinand..

Chelsea - Lampard, Terry, Cole..

Eddes
29-7-11, 11:12
I really dont know if all the money has been well spent, i guess when its not 'major' stars you sign there isnt quite the buzz but thats never really been Kenny's way or when we were the top dogs it wasnt the clubs way.

There are of course times where we have bought top 'stars' (Dalglish/Barnes)
but in our pomp the majority of players bought were signed to fit in to our 'system' and way. I think thats what Kenny is trying to get back to and only time will tell if players who we would of thought of as 'average' at other clubs can become major stars at ours.

After all, the club is bigger than any individual and signing major stars doesnt really fit in to that mantra.

LLS
29-7-11, 11:15
I love the way that you believe any hype that you read, follow the herd springs to mind.

Well that would suggest that I comment on players without having watched them. Which is clearly something you do, given your views on Mata.

And your earlier description of Young and Park as out and out wingers.

ToTaLxTc
29-7-11, 11:19
:FP:

Who provides the core to every successful championship side? Brits.. idiotic point.

Arsenal have certainly done well since fielding an all foreign side.

United - Scholes, Giggs, Fletcher, Carrick, Rooney, Ferdinand..

Chelsea - Lampard, Terry, Cole..

Tevez, Ronaldo, Drogba, Vidic, Van der Sar, Cech, Carvalho, Evra, Hernandez, Essien, Malouda...

I don't get your point. Quality players - regardless of their nationality - provide the core to sides that win honours.

Sneets
29-7-11, 11:22
Well that would suggest that I comment on players without having watched them. Which is clearly something you do, given your views on Mata.

And your earlier description of Young and Park as out and out wingers.

You should read my comments to El Alonso on Young and Park before making comments with little or no basis.

TheWalkingRed
29-7-11, 11:26
Why are we judging players who've not yet kicked a ball for us competitivly? On paper I look at the signings and think maybe we could have got better for the money however I struggle to pick out names we're not in the Champions League so that does eliminate a huge bracket of players who possibly where available to us, Foreign doesn't always mean better.

Exactly.Henderson,Adam,Downing and Carroll have played 45 minutes together and Suarez hasn't played with any except Carroll yet.How are you supposed to judge?

LLS
29-7-11, 11:27
You should read my comments to El Alonso on Young and Park before making comments with little or no basis.

So given those comments, why don't you rate Mata?

gedzredz
29-7-11, 11:33
The only way anybody in this thread can be proved right or wrong is when the season is a couple of months old.

We have spent a fair few quid on new players, they are probably not the glamour names some hoped for but if we are flying high in the league after 10 games no one will care. If we have a bad start then it will be open season on Comolli as I fear he will be singled out for abuse.
Fingers crossed we get off to a flyer.:fc:

Sneets
29-7-11, 11:36
So given those comments, why don't you rate Mata?

I do rate Mata. He is a very good player. He is not a super star though. He is not in the same league as Messi, Tevez, Ronaldo or even Suarez. He is on a par with Silva, Nani, Sanchez etc. very good players but not super stars.

LLS
29-7-11, 11:37
The only way anybody in this thread can be proved right or wrong is when the season is a couple of months old.

We have spent a fair few quid on new players, they are probably not the glamour names some hoped for but if we are flying high in the league after 10 games no one will care. If we have a bad start then it will be open season on Comolli as I fear he will be singled out for abuse.
Fingers crossed we get off to a flyer.:fc:

That is true, but I think unlike other summers, theres little dispute that all the guys we've signed so far are good players.

Theres no Degen's or Jova's or Poulsen's :D

The only thing it comes down to is just how good they can be together, but I can't see any of these players being bad, and they have certainly strengthened us.

doughts28
29-7-11, 11:42
I was expecting Comolli to get a budget of around £10m to try to unearth some gems from Europe

And no, I don't think it's been spent well. Downing and Adam seem to have been brought to get the most out of Carroll, when we should be getting the most out of Suarez instead

steppag1
29-7-11, 11:46
the only thing that worries me is that we need strength in depth and we def dont have that based on some of the performances from the second string players so far this pre season, we need to get rid of over half of them.

cookpassbabtridge
29-7-11, 11:54
I was expecting Comolli to get a budget of around £10m to try to unearth some gems from Europe

And no, I don't think it's been spent well. Downing and Adam seem to have been brought to get the most out of Carroll, when we should be getting the most out of Suarez instead

Suarez dosen't need any help to deliver his best. He's world class.

Luca05-10-09
29-7-11, 11:57
Suarez dosen't need any help to deliver his best. He's world class.

This

Ayub
29-7-11, 12:01
:BH:

I dunno why you're bothering with him. The number of fans who don't know about our financial standing and our reasons for NOT paying stupid wages, is unreal. Aguero is on £200k a week! No way in hell we'd match that, and nor should we.

Well said btw.

YNWA

How much wages are paying henderson, Adam and Carrol?

Lets say Carroll is 50k a week, Henderson around 25k a week and adams around 40k a week - thats 115k a week

lets say we get rid of poulsen and Jova - who say have a combined wage bill of 70k - thats 185k - we have sold Conchesky who was on say 25k a week thats 210k a week

now I know finances are not as simple as that but you get the gist in what I am trying to say

JohnstoneC
29-7-11, 12:06
Glad to see my post started a good conversation. Rather a shame that the unquestioning "if you don't blindly agree with everything you're a hater" crew are getting so upset.

I always try to be balanced when offering opinions and clearly only want the best for LFC as I'm sure you all do. I'm way more positive than this time last year but just a tad concerned that our rivals still have a lot more creative options despite our vast expenditure. Clearly I understand the home grown rules and I do know our squad and players quite well thanks (it's packed with uncreative midfielders!)

My point is that we should go for the minimum number of homegrown players we can because Brits lack skill - compare England to Spain as a very basic analogy.

Luca05-10-09
29-7-11, 12:09
How much wages are paying henderson, Adam and Carrol?

Lets say Carroll is 50k a week, Henderson around 25k a week and adams around 40k a week - thats 115k a week

lets say we get rid of poulsen and Jova - who say have a combined wage bill of 70k - thats 185k - we have sold Conchesky who was on say 25k a week thats 210k a week

now I know finances are not as simple as that but you get the gist in what I am trying to say

So your saying we get rid of the deadwood, dont strengthen anywhere else (shouldnt of bought Downing, Adam and Carroll) and buy Aguero and pay him 200k a week. Yea that'll be a great bit of business that :IN:

PHIL.
29-7-11, 12:10
So your saying we get rid of the deadwood, dont strengthen anywhere else (shouldnt of bought Downing, Adam and Carroll) and buy Aguero and pay him 200k a week. Yea that'll be a great bit of business that :IN:

:D

doughts28
29-7-11, 12:21
Suarez dosen't need any help to deliver his best. He's world class.

Yes he is, but we can still improve his impact by surrounding him with pass and move footballers. I don't think we've seen Suarez and Aquilani play together, and I think it would make Suarez even more devastating. Another technically gifted player ideally (but improbably) Mata, would create an incredible attack

TheWalkingRed
29-7-11, 12:22
I was expecting Comolli to get a budget of around £10m to try to unearth some gems from Europe

And no, I don't think it's been spent well. Downing and Adam seem to have been brought to get the most out of Carroll, when we should be getting the most out of Suarez instead

Adam,Downing and Henderson have good records for assists.I fail to see how this won't be a benefit to Suarez.

AlessoAfrojackAvicii
29-7-11, 12:23
In all honesty I could think of better ways he could of spent 100m.

doughts28
29-7-11, 12:30
Adam,Downing and Henderson have good records for assists.I fail to see how this won't be a benefit to Suarez.

Adam's primarily come from Corners and Free Kicks, Downing has presumably been signed because he can "land the ball on a six-pence", and his very accurate crossing will benefit Carroll rather than Suarez. Henderson is my favourite signing of the summer because he is the most adaptable; if we're just going out to break the record for most crosses in a season (good Lord I hope not), then he can do this. But he's also a creative, intelligent player who can play good through balls to Suarez on a regular basis.

gedzredz
29-7-11, 12:33
Are the prices for individual players that relevant though or is it the combined end result that counts?

I know Kenny and this club will be judged on the combined end result.

I personally think we paid market value for Henderson and Downing, we underpaid for Adam and Suarez and we overpaid for Carroll.

If the price tags were jumbled around and read:

Henderson: £8 million.
Downing : £20 million.
Adam: £16 million.
Carroll: £24 million.
Suarez: £35 million.

would people be able to accept it easier?

TheWalkingRed
29-7-11, 12:34
Adam's primarily come from Corners and Free Kicks, Downing has presumably been signed because he can "land the ball on a six-pence", and his very accurate crossing will benefit Carroll rather than Suarez. Henderson is my favourite signing of the summer because he is the most adaptable; if we're just going out to break the record for most crosses in a season (good Lord I hope not), then he can do this. But he's also a creative, intelligent player who can play good through balls to Suarez on a regular basis.

I think Adam's going to surprise you but we'll see.What we have is players that are always looking for a forward pass and can deliver them.Add a fit Stevie to that mix and i think we can do some serious damage this season.And i think Suarez will thrive on it.

Andyfagan
29-7-11, 12:36
Dani Parejo £5m
Nuri Sahin £8m
Juan Mata £15m
Stewart Downing £20m
Luis Suarez £23m
Jose Enrique £15m
Dejan Lovren £14m

Total: £100m.

Potential team:


Reina

Johnson---Carra---Lovren---Enrique

Sahin---Lucas

Downing---Gerrard---Mata

Suarez

Subs: Doni, Parejo, Kuyt, Meireles, Skrtel, Agger, Kelly

People not even in the squad: Shelvey, Spearing, Aquilani, Aurelio, Cole, Maxi, Kyrgiakos, Wilson, Ngog.

JohnstoneC
29-7-11, 13:18
Dani Parejo £5m
Nuri Sahin £8m
Juan Mata £15m
Stewart Downing £20m
Luis Suarez £23m
Jose Enrique £15m
Dejan Lovren £14m

Total: £100m.

Potential team:


Reina

Johnson---Carra---Lovren---Enrique

Sahin---Lucas

Downing---Gerrard---Mata

Suarez

Subs: Doni, Parejo, Kuyt, Meireles, Skrtel, Agger, Kelly

People not even in the squad: Shelvey, Spearing, Aquilani, Aurelio, Cole, Maxi, Kyrgiakos, Wilson, Ngog.

A good illustration of the point I was making. With 100M we could have signed some nifty foreigners instead of lots of kick and rush Brits. If we sign another forward and a LB I'll be pretty happy though :scarf

digger1
29-7-11, 13:25
I think we've spent very very wisely under Kenny

We've renewed our forward line and have a flair and amazing player in Saurez.

Carrol and Saurez for Torres - I think thats an amazing piece of wheeler dealing.

We've strengthened our midfeild with two of the top assisters from last season and an up and coming player who is listed by FIFA as one to watch.

Downing - Adams and Henderson -

You have to get past the fact that our signings havent got glamorous foriegn sounding names and have standard british names like Downing-Adams and Henderson. If you check the scoring and assist stats from last season you'll see that Downing and Adam scored and assist more than most of their foriegn and more glamorous sounding counterparts.

So in essence we've got a new forward line and midfield out of 100m...which isnt bad when you think Ronaldo and Torres cost 130 between them!!

Andyfagan
29-7-11, 13:34
I think we've spent very very wisely under Kenny

We've renewed our forward line and have a flair and amazing player in Saurez.

Carrol and Saurez for Torres - I think thats an amazing piece of wheeler dealing.

We've strengthened our midfeild with two of the top assisters from last season and an up and coming player who is listed by FIFA as one to watch.

Downing - Adams and Henderson -

You have to get past the fact that our signings havent got glamorous foriegn sounding names and have standard british names like Downing-Adams and Henderson. If you check the scoring and assist stats from last season you'll see that Downing and Adam scored and assist more than most of their foriegn and more glamorous sounding counterparts.

So in essence we've got a new forward line and midfield out of 100m...which isnt bad when you think Ronaldo and Torres cost 130 between them!!

That all sounds great, but we've also failed to address two of the three glaring weaknesses in our squad over the past few years.

Jazzy-J
29-7-11, 13:36
People often presume that if we didn't sign a player it's because we didn't want them. I think it's far more likely that we did express an interest in someone like Mata/Sahin whoever only to be told we had no chance.

Andyfagan
29-7-11, 13:42
People often presume that if we didn't sign a player it's because we didn't want them. I think it's far more likely that we did express an interest in someone like Mata/Sahin whoever only to be told we had no chance.

According to Ballague (not the best source I know), we were told his price would be €20m and thought "**** that, we could get Downing for that money!"

Sahin I agree with, he was only ever going to Real.

digger1
29-7-11, 13:45
AndyFagan

I'm not sure you can speak about the past two years in the same breath as the last 6 months. From where I'm standing the situation at Liverpool has been turned up side down.

From having a great manager who wasnt backed by the board and owners who were just pathetic.

To

Owners who put their money where their mouth is, a Manager who isnt just great he is legendry. We also have a guy in Comoli who has his finger on the pulse in terms of any new and up coming players.

All I've seen in the last 6 months just makes me ultra optimistic.

Andyfagan
29-7-11, 13:47
AndyFagan

I'm not sure you can speak about the past two years in the same breathe as the last 6 months. From where I'm standing the situation at Liverpool has been turned up side down.

From having a great manager who wasnt backed by the board and owners who were just pathetic.

To

Owners who put their money where their mouth is, a Manager who isnt just great he is legendry. We also have a guy in Comoli who has his finger on the pulse in terms of any new and up coming players.

All I've seen in the last 6 months just makes me ultra optimistic.

Read my post again.

I'm saying that our dealings in the transfer market have failed to address two of our biggest weaknesses that we've had over the past few years -namely LB and CB.

KyLFC
29-7-11, 13:55
Read my post again.

I'm saying that our dealings in the transfer market have failed to address two of our biggest weaknesses that we've had over the past few years -namely LB and CB.

Is the trasfer window closed or do we still have time to address these issue's ?

Andyfagan
29-7-11, 13:57
Is the trasfer window closed or do we still have time to address these issue's ?

We should have addressed those issues FIRST.

Also, I highly doubt we'll sign a top quality left back AND a top quality centre back.

KyLFC
29-7-11, 14:06
We should have addressed those issues FIRST.

Also, I highly doubt we'll sign a top quality left back AND a top quality centre back.


Im going to wait untill the transfer window shuts before I start to panic or say what we should have done. I would be suprised if we do not sign a decent LB & CB .

But on the other hand I bet the Club never releasied how hard it was going to be to ge rid of all the deadwood and I think this may have left us in a bad position .

All in all I would be shocked if we don't sign the postions you have mentioned.

Andyfagan
29-7-11, 14:07
Im going to wait untill the transfer window shuts before I start to panic or say what we should have done. I would be suprised if we do not sign a decent LB & CB .

But on the other hand I bet the Club never releasied how hard it was going to be to ge rid of all the deadwood and I think this may have left us in a bad position .

All in all I would be shocked if we don't sign the postions you have mentioned.

Hence why we should have addressed CB, LB and LW first. Leave Adam and Henderson until you've offloaded the deadwood because the two CMs aren't essential.

digger1
29-7-11, 14:10
AndyFagan
"Read my post again.

I'm saying that our dealings in the transfer market have failed to address two of our biggest weaknesses that we've had over the past few years -namely LB and CB."


I'm not sure if I agree with you on this....our biggest failing hasnt just been LB and CB in the last two seasons its been the entire team bar Gerrard, Reina and Carra!

In the last six months we have changed our forward line

Saurez - Carrol - for one player Torres.

We've rebuilt the Middle:

Adam-Downing and Henderson.

And I'm 100% sure the last phase is tackling the defense. If we've run out of cash to tackle the last phase for now then I'm still happy with what the club have done in the last six months because theyve pretty much rebuilt the team in a 6 month period.

I couldnt give a monkeys ***** about us losing pre-season games they mean nothing you dont get points or trophies for them. As long as we stuff Sunderland on the opening day this season I couldnt care less if we lost every pre season game 10-0!

Seanosdelgardo
29-7-11, 14:10
Read my post again.

I'm saying that our dealings in the transfer market have failed to address two of our biggest weaknesses that we've had over the past few years -namely LB and CB.

But it has addressed the one area that been a problem for even longer...and thats a left winger.

gedzredz
29-7-11, 14:13
But on the other hand I bet the Club never releasied how hard it was going to be to ge rid of all the deadwood and I think this may have left us in a bad position .



If we didn't realise it then we should have, we have rubbish footballers on ridiculously high wages on medium/long term contracts, some of whom (Cole/Poulsen) seen it as their last big pay day.

Did we really think that a combination of other clubs wanting them and the players agreeing to half their wages was going to be easy just because we said they wouldn't get a game?

Andyfagan
29-7-11, 14:13
But it has addressed the one area that been a problem for even longer...and thats a left winger.

Agreed.

But at the moment we have 0 left backs and 8 centre midfielders.

Japlin
29-7-11, 14:14
Agreed.

But at the moment we have 0 left backs and 9 centre midfielders.

*0 good enough or fit enough first choice LB's. :D

Pedagogue
29-7-11, 14:14
What quality LBs or CBs have been around this summer?!!

Looking at these MBs over the last few months, the mass consensus has been for width and playmaking, with a replacement for the Unspeakable One.

Mata, Aguero have been touted to death, and still are; there's a protracted threads still spinning, with groups of fans wailing thier loss like grieving widows and jilted lovers.

We've needed a decent LB for years, wingers too and a CB since Sami left has never been addressed.

Cahill/Dann and Enrique/Urguyan LB whose now name eludes me at 9,15am in the US, are still realisitc and credible options if the will and resolution in there from management and boardroom.

4 x 3 goals in pre-season does worry me.......

Andyfagan
29-7-11, 14:16
*0 good enough or fit enough first choice LB's. :D

Same thing. We have more than 9 CMs too but I discounted some of the silly ones.

CMs: Gerrard, Henderson, Adam, Lucas, Spearing, Shelvey, Aquilani, Meireles


...Okay, 8 CMs. Point still stands.

Andyfagan
29-7-11, 14:19
What quality LBs or CBs have been around this summer?!!

Enrique
Pereira
Coentrao
Cissokho
Clichy
Baines is worth a shot

Cahill
Dann
Jones
Lovren

digger1
29-7-11, 14:23
Seriously though I cant believe it sometimes...thats probably why I stayed away from these messageboard for so long.

This is all you get all day long:

1) I want\why havent we bought "insert name here"
2) Why havent we bought a player for "insert position here"

and my personal faves

3) Will people say we've bought success
4) We're not close to competing until we buy "insert positions here"

I mean what planet are some folks on?
LFC were in a dire mess only 7 months ago, we had a worse than average manager, Owners that were akin to Laurel and Hardy and a squad full of average players or good players that lacked confidence, we had a striker that moaped around the pitch and other players that seemed dis-interested.

All that has changed and in a big way, we've spent 100million....yes its allot of money but we've not gone out and spent 50 -60 million on one player. Even with the Carrol deal we spent 35 million on him and 22 on Saurez which roughly equated to what we sold Torres for, so even though it seems expensive it made sense.

We've then gone and wisely bought proven talent from this country who should be able to hit the ground running, non of this "needs 6 months to adjust" rubbish.

Yes we probably need a few more additions but we are still a million times better off than the situation that we were in last December.

Honestly there is no pleasing folks some times.

digger1
29-7-11, 14:24
Henderson isnt a CM his proper position is right wing...he played CM for Sunderland most of last season because of injuries!

KyLFC
29-7-11, 14:29
Hence why we should have addressed CB, LB and LW first. Leave Adam and Henderson until you've offloaded the deadwood because the two CMs aren't essential.

I think Henderson was brought to be used as a Right midfielder where he played the majority of his standout performaces for sunderland and I think he will offer alot to the team from this position and also very versatile . I think Adam will be a essential part of the team and I think we needed to get him as we obviousley have plans to move on the likes of Poulsen, Aquiliani & Cole and did not want to be left short of quailty in Central Midfield .

You could argue either way round if we did sign a LB and CB and then lacked quailty in midfield .

Im sure they are aware of the issue's in defence and are planning as we speak to sign the relevant players ...... I ****** hope so :scarf

KyLFC
29-7-11, 14:31
If we didn't realise it then we should have, we have rubbish footballers on ridiculously high wages on medium/long term contracts, some of whom (Cole/Poulsen) seen it as their last big pay day.

Did we really think that a combination of other clubs wanting them and the players agreeing to half their wages was going to be easy just because we said they wouldn't get a game?

Ofcourse Im only saying what i think might be the case .

CincinnatiReds
29-7-11, 14:35
I like the signings of Downing and Adam, and certainly agree we still need a LB and an addition at CB. But what worries me watching Carroll lumber a bit up front, along with what will likely be our starting midfield is that we have no pace. I'm not one of these pace obsessed supporters who want a racehorse running down the wing with no ball skills whatsoever. But I do think you need a pacey player or two in midfield and attack to add a dimension and break up defenses and create space and opportunities for people like Carroll. That said, a fast winger on the wing opposite Downing or a third striker with some speed would be a nice thing to have along with a new LB.

gedzredz
29-7-11, 14:38
Oh I know mate it wasn't a dig at you.

It's sad though that because of Rafa's later transfer dealings and Roy's absolute disaster last summer(under difficult circumstances it has to be said) we have wound up with a squad full of overpaid dross. The fact that Kenny may well be hamstrung in the transfer market by these spongers really annoys me.

KyLFC
29-7-11, 14:43
Oh I know mate it wasn't a dig at you.

It's sad though that because of Rafa's later transfer dealings and Roy's absolute disaster last summer(under difficult circumstances it has to be said) we have wound up with a squad full of overpaid dross. The fact that Kenny may well be hamstrung in the transfer market by these spongers really annoys me.

Very True mate ! Just hoping we get rid of atleast 2 or 3 more of these players i wont hold my breath though .

GottaWearShades
29-7-11, 14:45
Are the prices for individual players that relevant though or is it the combined end result that counts?

I know Kenny and this club will be judged on the combined end result.

I personally think we paid market value for Henderson and Downing, we underpaid for Adam and Suarez and we overpaid for Carroll.

If the price tags were jumbled around and read:

Henderson: £8 million.
Downing : £20 million.
Adam: £16 million.
Carroll: £24 million.
Suarez: £35 million.

would people be able to accept it easier?

I agree with this and you could go further and say we have those players for 40m plus FT and Babel. In overall terms, which is what counts at the end of the day, I think we have done good business.

For net 40m since the owners came in, I believe we have improved our team considerably. Man U have spent about the same for a goalkeeper who is unlikely to be as good as their previous one off the bat, a cb that they bought to stop him coming here, and Ashley Young who is a good player but plays in a position they are well served. Chelsea have spent 70m on a cb who looks good going forward but not so flash defensively and a misfiring striker who requires them to change the whole way they play. Man City have added Dzeko, Clichy and Aguero but Aguero may simply replace Tevez.

Unlike two of these clubs we are not going to have issues with the home-grown rules or the FFP rules, assuming that UEFA shows some **** on that.

I think the other thing is that most of our competitors have better squads to start with, more money (except Arsenal), the offer of CL football and, like us, top drawer managers (except Mancini IMO - imagine any of the other managers with his transfer kitty). So if we do the same as them we will in all likelihood lose out. We need to do things a little differently. So it seems we are taking a long-term approach, while setting up CL qualification as a target this year. We have gone for players who will be here for a long, often very long time - the fact they are English means they are not likely to be troubled by the weather or desperate housewives. And it seems like we are setting ourselves up to play slightly differently also with a monster and a trickster together up front.

On Henderson, sure we don't need him now, but maybe we see him as a 10-year player and figured we only had once chance to buy him before someone else did.

digger1
29-7-11, 14:48
I cant see anyone buying J Cole - he's on 100K a week, it's a shame though because even if he played good (not even great) he'd be useful. I find it hard to believe that Kuyt who can be a donkey at the best of times has more than outshone J Cole on goals and assists infact I think kuyt was one of the highest assist and goal scorers as a midfielder last season in the whole league which is shocking when you see some of his ball control. Just makes you think when you have 110% commitment 110% desire and 110% fight you dont need things like skill and flair ;)

HIP-KLOPPBEATZ
29-7-11, 14:58
Clearly it's far Too early to judge our new signings but was it really a good idea to spend nearly 100M on British players given that England and Scotland get played off the park by pretty much every team around? We have lots of hard workers but very little in the way of technical players who can unlock a defence. More creativity needed ASAP I reckon. For the money we've spent we could have signed Cavani, Aguero, Mata and Hazard :eek:

We might still nick fourth with our current squad but only because KK is so amazing.

Bar Carroll who was about 20mil too much I think we've bought well, the proof will be once the season is well under way obviously.

harrystevens
29-7-11, 15:34
We need foreignors, cause they help get U success.

We had Hernando Scoreless, how many trophies did he win with Liverpool? 0 ;)

How many has this gunn Foreigner, cause apparently British players are overrated, how many trophies has Hernando Scoreless got with his clubs Atletico And Liverpool, I'll even throw in Chelski now cause he helped wreck there season ending last year? 1 club trophy. A Second Division trophy in Spain. ;)

Did Xabi Alonso help Liverpool win any League titles? ;) 0

How bout Javier Mascherano, for sure his a foreigner, so trophies would follow him around at Liverpool???? ;) 0

We must have won League trophies with Sammi Hyypia playing??? ;) 0

I'll even throw in Pepe Reina? Any League titiles, Champions League victories at Liverpool???? ;) 0


Riera, Kewell, Babel, Baros, etc, etc.


GET OVER YOUR LOVE OF FOREIGNERS, CAUSE LOTS OF THEM ARE JUST AS OVER RATED AS THE BRITS! (I'm not British either, just sticking up for U lads)

JohnstoneC
29-7-11, 17:37
Brits mainly lack basic passing ability and technique - that's my point

Euro-77-78-81-84-05
29-7-11, 17:47
For the money we've spent we could have signed Cavani, Aguero, Mata and Hazard

and what about the extra wages they command, Aguero alone for example reported 200k a week.

JohnstoneC
29-7-11, 19:53
and what about the extra wages they command, Aguero alone for example reported 200k a week.

Fair point about the wages. 200K is just mental. Shame we have so much crap on high wages at the club already (Poulsen, Ngog etc) I am actually happy with most of our signings just reckon we still need more creativity and worried by Carroll.... :scarf

Kloppette
29-7-11, 20:09
Brits mainly lack basic passing ability and technique - that's my point

Every player is different regardless of what country they are from some have good basic passing and technique and others don't.

Its a slightly racist/sterotype comment really especially using the word Brit, I got an infraction for using a similar type of shortening of a country to describe someone from that country.

Megali-Idea
29-7-11, 21:00
We've got a nice balance of British and International Players. Meireles, Suarez, Lucas, Skrtel, Agger.

Only 1 of whom Kenny bought with the 100m spent.

MickeyLove
29-7-11, 21:22
To be fair it did seem as if we made an attempt to sort the CB issue with Jones. I will be amazed if we do not sign a left back before the end of the summer.

Paullfc1976
29-7-11, 21:25
To be fair it did seem as if we made an attempt to sort the CB issue with Jones. I will be amazed if we do not sign a left back before the end of the summer.

I'd go with this.

Also we've only really spent £40m, if you take into consideration the sale of Torres and Babel; has that already been mentioned?

Gazza74
29-7-11, 21:26
Clearly it's far Too early to judge our new signings but was it really a good idea to spend nearly 100M on British players.

Clearly a contradiction here.

It is to early to judge, therefore we don't know if it was a good idea or not yet.

You need to put this thread in the drawer and bring it back out at the end of May next season when we will be able to answer it.

JohnstoneC
29-7-11, 21:41
Clearly a contradiction here.

It is to early to judge, therefore we don't know if it was a good idea or not yet.

You need to put this thread in the drawer and bring it back out at the end of May next season when we will be able to answer it.

Hope they turn out to be excellent. If we get a LB and striker we might challenge :scarf

Donnyweed
29-7-11, 21:59
Liverpool need a few more quality defenders to finally win the Premiership.

Kenny has done a fantastic job with the midfield and forwards, and we should be able to score tons of goals.

JohnstoneC
29-7-11, 22:03
Plus I'm British so weird being racist about myself

MickeyLove
29-7-11, 22:10
Hi there. Welcome to the boards and thank you for your first post. Can I just ask in future that if you have a topic you want to discuss, that you try to search for an existing thread in which to post.

Just to let you know I'll be merging this with an existing thread on the subject. You will see a link that diverts you to that thread.

:)

#CavaniToLiverpool
29-7-11, 22:20
------------Reina-------------
Johnson---Thiago Silva---Agger----Enrique
Gerrard---Adam---Meireles
Henderson--------Suarez---------Downing

Boom. :scarf

naturalskill
29-7-11, 22:21
Reina
Johnson---Carra---Agger----Enrique
Gerrard---Adam---Meireles
Henderson--------Suarez---------Downing

Boom. :scarf

no Aguero in your team:rolleyes:

CMBLFC
29-7-11, 22:22
LOL I LAUGH AND THESE PEOPLE ARE SUPPORTING MY CLUB!!!! :confused: :FP: :scarf

#CavaniToLiverpool
29-7-11, 22:22
no Aguero in your team:rolleyes:

Nah, would of looked great too! :(

Maybe we can go for Hulk, or Falcao would be nice! :scarf

TAFFYFROG
29-7-11, 22:29
Andy Carroll wasn't actually £35m, it was £35m with add-ons, I believe (based on what's been discussed amongst ex players and people close to the club) it's nearer £21m up front, Hendo was c £9m upfront but your point is absolutely valid.

I hope you are right Riddler because those deals seem excellent value and very responsible deals

It would also explain why Newcastle and Sunderland have not been splashing £35m or £20m around in the transfer window

#CavaniToLiverpool
29-7-11, 22:42
I hope you are right Riddler because those deals seem excellent value and very responsible deals

It would also explain why Newcastle and Sunderland have not been splashing £35m or £20m around in the transfer window

Tbh sunderland have got 8 players in the summer.

TAFFYFROG
29-7-11, 22:46
[QUOTE=GottaWearShades;6035374]
Man City have added Dzeko, Clichy and Aguero but Aguero may simply replace Tevez.QUOTE]

I agree with your point and repped you

If you think back Dzeko cost £27m and replaced Adebayor who had cost a reported £25m and who they haven't sold yet

Clichy cost £7m but replaced Boateng who was bought for £10m

Aguero cost close to £40m to replace Tevez who is likely to be sold for £40m

3 high profile and expensive signings but not clear that they have improved the team 1%

Whatusmoking
29-7-11, 22:50
Nah, would of looked great too! :(

Maybe we can go for Hulk, or Falcao would be nice! :scarf

Thought you was leaving the forums once you were exposed!!

:FP::FP::FP::FP:

djskuff
29-7-11, 23:04
I'd go with this.

Also we've only really spent £40m, if you take into consideration the sale of Torres and Babel; has that already been mentioned?

Don't think it has tbh :D

Mike-91
29-7-11, 23:11
I am looking back at what I said this morning and how happy I am with the money spent.

I now think it is the greatest 100 million ever spent.

Have that Valmont

BuKhalid
29-7-11, 23:34
If you look at net spending on a collective basis, then yes.

£45m net spend for 5 players is value for money in the shareholders' eyes

ItsAPenPOff
30-7-11, 00:15
We've got a nice balance of British and International Players. Meireles, Suarez, Lucas, Skrtel, Agger.

None of those are british mate!

JohnstoneC
30-7-11, 07:02
Brits are lame!

Sneets
30-7-11, 07:19
Brits are lame!

Well, you are one of them apparently.

Megali-Idea
30-7-11, 07:26
If you look at net spending on a collective basis, then yes.

£45m net spend for 5 players is value for money in the shareholders' eyes

How long are we going to use the Torres equation to even out our obvious paying over the odds for Carroll, Downing and Henderson.

TBuck33
30-7-11, 07:30
How long are we going to use the Torres equation to even out our obvious paying over the odds for Carroll, Downing and Henderson.

patience yung gwasshoppppaaaa

BuKhalid
30-7-11, 13:08
How long are we going to use the Torres equation to even out our obvious paying over the odds for Carroll, Downing and Henderson.

We have to think of it from an investor's point of view, not what we think a player is worth. You over pay for some and you get some at a bargain price, it's the collective deal which the owners will look at. The fact that they linked Carroll's deal with Torres, in a public statement, only goes to prove they see it that way.

This is especially the case when you think what they paid for the club. They valued Liverpool with an enterprise value of £300m. When you deduct the £240m paid to RBS it leaves you with an equity value of £60m (even lower if you factor in the working capital they left in place). Thats the deal of the century given that it includes our brand, stadium, SQUAD, etc.

So anything generated from the Torres deal is unlocked value which they didn't pay for, it's free financing in their eyes. As far as they are concerned they only paid an additional £45m for 5 players which is approx. £9m a player.

Would I have paid £35m for Carroll? Most probably not. But if you see the overall picture from an owners perspective, the situation is not so bad.

AussieT
30-7-11, 14:49
When people carry on about the price we paid for Carroll, please answer this question.

After the last 2 years with our ex cowboy owners, we finally got what appears some really good sensible people in to take us to the next level after court battles, bankruptcies and almost a relegation fight.

With fans passions running at fever pitch, hate everywhere for Roy, us hanging around 14th position in the league, what would have been the FANS reaction to selling Torres in the very first transfer window the new owners had without bringing in a replacement. There would have been a ******* riot and you all know it. As I have said before, we paid 20 mill for carroll + 15 million in extras to keep the fans appeased.

Gibz
30-7-11, 15:54
When people carry on about the price we paid for Carroll, please answer this question.

After the last 2 years with our ex cowboy owners, we finally got what appears some really good sensible people in to take us to the next level after court battles, bankruptcies and almost a relegation fight.

With fans passions running at fever pitch, hate everywhere for Roy, us hanging around 14th position in the league, what would have been the FANS reaction to selling Torres in the very first transfer window the new owners had without bringing in a replacement. There would have been a ******* riot and you all know it. As I have said before, we paid 20 mill for carroll + 15 million in extras to keep the fans appeased.

We'd have been pretty stupid to run riot on the new owners so soon. Would the fans really run riot on the owners if they had walked away from the Carroll deal after having a £25m bid rejected? Kenny would have smiled for the cameras saying, 'have patience with the owners, I have seen their plans' and you know we'd all feel at ease.

If they had left an offer on the table for £20-25m, even £30m for Carroll and the deal didn't get done I don't think anybody would have kicked up much of a fuss that we didn't find a replacement for Torres at such short notice.

We'd all be tipping our hats saying 'Well done, don't let anybody rip you off Mr Henry'. Then we would all be plotting who that £30m was going to be spent on just like we were with the supposed £20m that we bid for Richards and so on.

Once Torres said he wanted out, he had to go, but the first whiff of the Carroll deal and I got excited. Then I saw the fee increasing and I actually thought to myself we should walk away. Our season was pretty much over and an injured Carroll wasn't going to change anything. We approached the Adam deal like this and got a good deal early on in the Summer.

Besides, Suarez would still have made everyone forget about Torres. If we'd have sold Torres and only bought an injured Carroll, then we'd probably riot. :P

JohnstoneC
22-8-11, 06:36
Could have got these two instead of Carroll and Henderson! Would have been way better :) Ho hum.

Matt-CM
22-8-11, 06:50
Could have got these two instead of Carroll and Henderson! Would have been way better :) Ho hum.

As you say...


Clearly it's far Too early to judge our new signings

kop144
22-8-11, 06:53
This whole thread is a logical fallacy...:D

SuperSpeedy
22-8-11, 06:55
When people carry on about the price we paid for Carroll, please answer this question.

After the last 2 years with our ex cowboy owners, we finally got what appears some really good sensible people in to take us to the next level after court battles, bankruptcies and almost a relegation fight.

With fans passions running at fever pitch, hate everywhere for Roy, us hanging around 14th position in the league, what would have been the FANS reaction to selling Torres in the very first transfer window the new owners had without bringing in a replacement. There would have been a ******* riot and you all know it. As I have said before, we paid 20 mill for carroll + 15 million in extras to keep the fans appeased.

You think Kenny would spend 35 million of the clubs money to avoid a riot? You clearly don't know Kenny or the fans.

Megali-Idea
22-8-11, 06:58
You think Kenny would spend 35 million of the clubs money to avoid a riot? You clearly don't know Kenny or the fans.

He has a point though. Had the new owners, came in, and sold Torres without getting a replacement, there would have a been a HUGE uproar over it.

SuperSpeedy
22-8-11, 07:08
He has a point though. Had the new owners, came in, and sold Torres without getting a replacement, there would have a been a HUGE uproar over it.

Lets not forget they had just broken our transfer record and signed Suarez, questions would have been asked but the majority would have understood that there wasn't enough time to find a replacement.

Also if it was just to please the fans we would have signed someone could play straight away and not someone who was injured and still had while to go before he could get fully fit.

-Cactus-
22-8-11, 07:56
He has a point though. Had the new owners, came in, and sold Torres without getting a replacement, there would have a been a HUGE uproar over it.

You know, I would have been happy had they said Suarez was his replacement, and that the rest of the money from the transfer would go towards the summer budget. I think most fans would, really. If it had been all about appeasing fans they should have got someone in who wasn't injured. I'm sure £35m would have gotten a bigger name than Carroll, and someone not injured at that.

I'm happy with Carroll and I think he'll turn out to be a great striker. I doubt he'll ever quite live up to his price tag, but if he helps us to nr. 19 and beyond I won't care what he cost.

As for the subject of this thread, I think it's too early to pass judgment. Come spring we'll be in a better position to decide whether the money has been well spent or not.

Alon1
22-8-11, 08:14
He has a point though. Had the new owners, came in, and sold Torres without getting a replacement, there would have a been a HUGE uproar over it.

That would imply Carrol,s was a panic buy, and I refuse to believe we did that, the other factor it is that at the time Kenny was just in a caretaker position, and it's completely impossible he took that decision just himself.

We early have followed a transfer policy of trying to get the best players from the teams just below us, and preferably British, time will tell if this risky strategy would work or not.

lauriantero
22-8-11, 10:42
Could have got these two instead of Carroll and Henderson! Would have been way better :) Ho hum.

And you know this how? I mean, how do you know these players would have wanted to come?

Mata is already challenging fir 3rd at Valencia, and that's the best any neutrals think we can do at the moment. Higuain, on the other hand is challenging for the title and CL. Also, both of their teams are in the CL, we are not. I'm also not sure we can compete with Chelsea on wages.

So I'm sure, given the circumstances, Mata would choose Chelsea over us. And I didn't even know Higuain was going anywhere.

The real world doesn't work like fantasy football, and you don't just pick the players you want. It's not that simple.

And it is indeed too early to judge our new signings.I think we've done good busines overall under the current owners and manager. With a net spend of just over £40m we have massively improved our squad.

Now we need to get back to the CL and show we can challenge for the title in the future. Then we will be more attractive option for players, and we can strengthen some more.

GottaWearShades
22-8-11, 11:10
With a net spend of just over £40m we have massively improved our squad.

Isn't that all the counts in the end?

That and the fact that most of the signings are not likely to want to leave because their missus can't settle in Liverpool.

As for Carroll, when Masch is marking him in the 2013 CL final, I reckon he'll seem worth 35m :)

DelNo7
22-8-11, 11:37
Carroll 36m and Henderson 16m - waste of money :scarf

Scrams
22-8-11, 12:07
Carroll 36m and Henderson 16m - waste of money :scarf

:FP: Will they still be a waste when we have a fantastic season

slimman
22-8-11, 12:12
It is very nice we had 100 million to spend.

Scouserrrrrrrrr
22-8-11, 12:14
We still need another winger and a backup striker, in the mould of hernandez... i hate see'ing kuyt and henderson on the right in contrast to downing on the left.

Euro-77-78-81-84-05
22-8-11, 13:20
Carroll 36m and Henderson 16m - waste of money


Wow, you have given Henderson two games, not even two whole games as he was subbed off against Sunderland, so less then three hours, nice to see patience in the Sky Sports generation.

Also is there a reason you had to add an extra million to Carroll's price tag, if you point was ok, you wouldn't need to change facts to try and make your point stand would you.

SweetSilverSeven
22-8-11, 13:32
Carroll 36m and Henderson 16m - waste of money :scarf

You do realise, in five games time, you could be saying that Henderson was worth it?

Two games! TWO GAMES is all that you have given a young player to show what he can do and you're already judging him :FP:

lfcstlouis
22-8-11, 13:37
It is very nice we had 100 million to spend.

Exactly. We spent 3 years complaining about buying bargain basement players, then we actually get the funds available to go buy who the manager WANTS, and we still ***** and moan. :FP:

Gazza74
22-8-11, 13:40
It's still way to early to say whether it's been well spent.

We can have our first proper judgement in May when the season is over and we can assess how the team has done and how the new signings have contributed to that good or bad.

_RedOrDead
22-8-11, 13:43
Clearly it's far Too early to judge our new signings but was it really a good idea to spend nearly 100M on British players given that England and Scotland get played off the park by pretty much every team around? We have lots of hard workers but very little in the way of technical players who can unlock a defence. More creativity needed ASAP I reckon. For the money we've spent we could have signed Cavani, Aguero, Mata and Hazard :eek:

We might still nick fourth with our current squad but only because KK is so amazing.

The 4 players you quoted wouldn't join a club thats not in the Champions League. We need to get into the top 4 this year or we will miss out again on the top players. That said, i'm happy with who we got this year :)

BeautifulHistory
22-8-11, 15:33
I still stand that we have improved the squad & team and I have been vocal on the opinion that yes squad and the team has been improved but hasn't been improved to a level high enough in my opinion to challenge for the title,

We've seen to be in my opinion content with consolidating and slowly building everything up, while our competitors Chelsea United City all looking to take their clubs the next level,

It was some think what Benitez was always complaining about that we were always 3 steps behind and that we needed to challenge the top teams,

So in my opinion it just seems that we are content also to let the big clubs get bigger

NYscouser
22-8-11, 15:41
We did well in the transfer market.

Enrique is class and we got him for a steal.
Downing worth every pound we spend on him
Henderson is one for the future but for a 19year old has done well
Adam has looked good so far
Doni good backup

If we let ngog go we should be buying some sort of capable 3rd striker/or be buying a Right winger so Kuyt can be the 3rd choice striker. And probably still need a CB but may be able to wiat until january for that.

Hatake
22-8-11, 15:41
It was some think what Benitez was always complaining about that we were always 3 steps behind and that we needed to challenge the top teams,

So in my opinion it just seems that we are content also to let the big clubs get bigger

Would you really expect us to go from a 6th placed team to challenging the title in two transfer windows? Our team has basically had to be rebuilt due to losing the core of the previous squad (Alonso/Masch/Torres and even Gerrard for most of last season).

I'd say it would be unrealistic to expect it to happen so quickly, I expect by next summer we'll be in a position to have a squad on paper that will genuinely be contenders for the league. Most of us may even be surprised this season with this team. Nothing is to say the owners aren't planning to buy a couple excellent players in the next window or two, especially when we are able to offer Champions League football.

Kloppette
22-8-11, 15:47
We will see the best from Hendo in 4 years time when he starts to hit his peak age.
At the moment we will see a player that we will nurture and he will grow at the club like Redknapp and Gerrard or even Lucas.
In 5 years that 16m price tag will look like an amazing bit of business, or he flops gets injured and in 2 years is loaned out to Chesterfield.

Who knows, thats the risk with young players they could succeed or they could fail and we got to of the best in their respective positions.

Fingers crossed but I won't be judging until the end of next season but I'm a patient person.

Rubber65Soul
22-8-11, 15:58
Im more concerned about how we play with AC on the pitch than what we paid for him. There has been a lot said regarding our game plan with and without him and this really stood out on Saturday.

Kloppette
22-8-11, 16:03
Im more concerned about how we play with AC on the pitch than what we paid for him. There has been a lot said regarding our game plan with and without him and this really stood out on Saturday.

Yeah it worked on Sat

iamnottian
22-8-11, 16:10
I do not think that a lot of quality was added with the 100mils. In fact, the playing style with 100mil worth of players is not half as good as how the team played in 2nd half of last season. I know its early, but the signs are worrying.

1. Andy Carroll - Many have highlighted, whenever carroll plays, the team will play hoof ball forward or try too hard to get to the wing to cross for caroll. There is no movement from the CMs. Lucas, Henderson, Adam pass and sits at the half way line waiting for carroll or the wingers to pass the ball back to them. There is hardly any pass and move football from the midfield.

When carroll signed, i was excited, i thought he will be a "drogba" type of player. However, he is showing that he is more alike duncan ferguson. If everyone in the team is not performing, wont count on him to win a match.

2. Henderson - Not too sure what is everyones expectation on this boy. From the videos, he looks like a decent passer with good technical skills who can dribble the ball from our side to opponent side (younger gerrard or gary mac). So far, he does not dribble and his passing is not deadly enough (mostly square passes). He also does not move into the opposition penalty box enough. Sadly, he looks like a quicker version poulsen. If everyone in the team is not performing, wont count on him to win a match.

3. Adam - His passing ability is quite impressive. However, he lacks movement, looks terribly unfit, clumsy with tackles and does not move into attacking position enough. Apart from his passing, he does not look as good as alonso. He may win a match from a good set piece delivery.

4. Enrique- Already looks good. Quick, tall, technically good.

5. Suarez - Already made a name for himself. Quick, tricky, a possible match winner.

6. Downing - A winger. Yes, finally a winger, over priced for his qualities. Downing is more like a "Beckham" rather than a "Giggs". The team needs a "Giggs" type of winger who can over up an opposition defence when the team needs ideas. Not too certain if he is a match winner type. For now, at least he doesn't, considering how poorly supported we are in the box when his crosses flies in.

In general, we added 3 players with better technical abilities in Downing, Suarez and Enrique. On the other hand, Henderson, Adam and Carroll does not seem technically good enough. However, the most important part is to see Liverpool play fluid attacking football. Which I believe we will not see, unless the team can play the ball on the ground and that is not carroll's strength. On the other hand, we have readily available good CM (Aqua) and Striker (Ngog) who can improve the playing style of the team. But sadly, Kenny doesnt seem to fancy them.

TheWalkingRed
22-8-11, 16:23
I do not think that a lot of quality was added with the 100mils. In fact, the playing style with 100mil worth of players is not half as good as how the team played in 2nd half of last season. I know its early, but the signs are worrying.

1. Andy Carroll - Many have highlighted, whenever carroll plays, the team will play hoof ball forward or try too hard to get to the wing to cross for caroll. There is no movement from the CMs. Lucas, Henderson, Adam pass and sits at the half way line waiting for carroll or the wingers to pass the ball back to them. There is hardly any pass and move football from the midfield.

When carroll signed, i was excited, i thought he will be a "drogba" type of player. However, he is showing that he is more alike duncan ferguson. If everyone in the team is not performing, wont count on him to win a match.

2. Henderson - Not too sure what is everyones expectation on this boy. From the videos, he looks like a decent passer with good technical skills who can dribble the ball from our side to opponent side (younger gerrard or gary mac). So far, he does not dribble and his passing is not deadly enough (mostly square passes). He also does not move into the opposition penalty box enough. Sadly, he looks like a quicker version poulsen. If everyone in the team is not performing, wont count on him to win a match.

3. Adam - His passing ability is quite impressive. However, he lacks movement, looks terribly unfit, clumsy with tackles and does not move into attacking position enough. Apart from his passing, he does not look as good as alonso. He may win a match from a good set piece delivery.

4. Enrique- Already looks good. Quick, tall, technically good.

5. Suarez - Already made a name for himself. Quick, tricky, a possible match winner.

6. Downing - A winger. Yes, finally a winger, over priced for his qualities. Downing is more like a "Beckham" rather than a "Giggs". The team needs a "Giggs" type of winger who can over up an opposition defence when the team needs ideas. Not too certain if he is a match winner type. For now, at least he doesn't, considering how poorly supported we are in the box when his crosses flies in.

In general, we added 3 players with better technical abilities in Downing, Suarez and Enrique. On the other hand, Henderson, Adam and Carroll does not seem technically good enough. However, the most important part is to see Liverpool play fluid attacking football. Which I believe we will not see, unless the team can play the ball on the ground and that is not carroll's strength. On the other hand, we have readily available good CM (Aqua) and Striker (Ngog) who can improve the playing style of the team. But sadly, Kenny doesnt seem to fancy them.

So your answer is to play Aquilani and Ngog?Ok then.

iamnottian
22-8-11, 16:39
So your answer is to play Aquilani and Ngog?Ok then.

Not answer, but better choices as compare to what we are playing in the first team right now.

Snippes
22-8-11, 16:43
I think the reason you have complainers who have already made up their mind that the 100 Mil was not well spent, and then another group that wants to believe it was well spent so is trying to stay patient but have this nagging worry feeling at the back of the mind.....the reason is not so much what the money was spent on, its more like what the money was NOT spent on.

We can play the game of "but maybe he wasn't going to come here...too expensive." blah blah...but comparisons are always going to be made between: Fact is they were available and purchased after we made our choices. And while we cannot offer Citeh wages - I think we could have been competitive.

Buying Carroll instead of Aguero.
Buying Henderson instead of Mata/Hazard etc.
Buying Adam when we already had Meireles/Aquilani...or could have gone for a Benega/Pistore etc instead.

For me personally - solidifying our left side of the pitch puts me in that second category of fans who are trying to be patient and trust Kenny and let it all play out even if there is no question that one or two of the new boys are starting to cause a restless itch.

TwoDogsRichard
22-8-11, 16:51
I think the reason you have complainers who have already made up their mind that the 100 Mil was not well spent, and then another group that wants to believe it was well spent so is trying to stay patient but have this nagging worry feeling at the back of the mind.....the reason is not so much what the money was spent on, its more like what the money was NOT spent on.

We can play the game of "but maybe he wasn't going to come here...too expensive." blah blah...but comparisons are always going to be made between: Fact is they were available and purchased after we made our choices. And while we cannot offer Citeh wages - I think we could have been competitive.

Buying Carroll instead of Aguero.
Buying Henderson instead of Mata/Hazard etc.
Buying Adam when we already had Meireles/Aquilani...or could have gone for a Benega/Pistore etc instead.

For me personally - solidifying our left side of the pitch puts me in that second category of fans who are trying to be patient and trust Kenny and let it all play out even if there is no question that one or two of the new boys are starting to cause a restless itch.

And that after two whole games! Sky has a lot to answer for!

GottaWearShades
22-8-11, 16:55
I think the reason you have complainers who have already made up their mind that the 100 Mil was not well spent, and then another group that wants to believe it was well spent so is trying to stay patient but have this nagging worry feeling at the back of the mind.....the reason is not so much what the money was spent on, its more like what the money was NOT spent on.

We can play the game of "but maybe he wasn't going to come here...too expensive." blah blah...but comparisons are always going to be made between: Fact is they were available and purchased after we made our choices. And while we cannot offer Citeh wages - I think we could have been competitive.

Buying Carroll instead of Aguero.
Buying Henderson instead of Mata/Hazard etc.
Buying Adam when we already had Meireles/Aquilani...or could have gone for a Benega/Pistore etc instead.

For me personally - solidifying our left side of the pitch puts me in that second category of fans who are trying to be patient and trust Kenny and let it all play out even if there is no question that one or two of the new boys are starting to cause a restless itch.

I disagree with this point. Anything like what Aquero is on at City would have blown the wage structure. And there is the possibility that he won't work out, notwithstanding his start here, and you are stuck in the situation we are now of having players who are difficult to move because of their wages.

In terms of the rest of the post, I think there is also a division between people looking at individual transfers and those looking at the package as a whole. I find Henderson a strange one and think some players were overpriced, but then we sold Torres for 50m and Suarez and Enrique (at this early stage) look steals.

The other thing is that we are not going to be successful by following the same strategy as everyone else when the 3 teams expected by most to finish above us have more resources than us (miles more in the case of City and Chelsea) and already have a head start. Our strategy seems to be to create a very solid base with players who are likely to be here for 5-10 years and then add some fantasy players once we have that base and CL football to offer.

Alpha Papa
22-8-11, 16:55
I3. Adam - His passing ability is quite impressive. However, he lacks movement, looks terribly unfit, clumsy with tackles and does not move into attacking position enough. Apart from his passing, he does not look as good as alonso. He may win a match from a good set piece delivery.



Adam made 7 tackles and won 7 tackles on Saturday.

Snippes
22-8-11, 16:55
And that after two whole games! Sky has a lot to answer for!

Just a little heads up, Sky did not teach everyone here how to watch football. In fact, I have never watched football on sky - so these tired sky references are just moronic. Sometimes, you see what you see and you trust when your eyes are telling you that you are seeing....and all the sky sports references ain't gonna paper over them cracks, simple as that.

--Craig--
22-8-11, 16:59
Just a little heads up, Sky did not teach everyone here how to watch football. In fact, I have never watched football on sky - so these tired sky references are just moronic. Sometimes, you see what you see and you trust when your eyes are telling you that you are seeing....and all the sky sports references ain't gonna paper over them cracks, simple as that.


Agree. This constant "It's Skys fault" is getting pretty stupid.

grenny158
22-8-11, 17:11
As many have said, the criticism of Henderson is somewhat premature (that's assuming he doesn't turn out to be a great player one day), and I ask those critical of the lad to consider this:

Had Steven Gerrard not been a homegrown player, and, at 19, we had splashed the equivalent amount at the time (16-20m, depending on who you believe) on him, would you have thought it was crazy? Cast your mind back to Gerrard at 19 - everyone had high hopes for him, but was he then a world beater? Nowhere near.

Give Henderson time to prove his worth .. and by that I mean more than one pre-season and two actual league matches.

TwoDogsRichard
22-8-11, 17:12
Just a little heads up, Sky did not teach everyone here how to watch football. In fact, I have never watched football on sky - so these tired sky references are just moronic. Sometimes, you see what you see and you trust when your eyes are telling you that you are seeing....and all the sky sports references ain't gonna paper over them cracks, simple as that.

The Sky reference is a generalisation for impatient fans. I've supported this team since the 60's and we normally give players more than a couple of games before passing judgment on them.

Snippes
22-8-11, 17:13
I disagree with this point. Anything like what Aquero is on at City would have blown the wage structure. And there is the possibility that he won't work out, notwithstanding his start here, and you are stuck in the situation we are now of having players who are difficult to move because of their wages.

In terms of the rest of the post, I think there is also a division between people looking at individual transfers and those looking at the package as a whole. I find Henderson a strange one and think some players were overpriced, but then we sold Torres for 50m and Suarez and Enrique (at this early stage) look steals.

The other thing is that we are not going to be successful by following the same strategy as everyone else when the 3 teams expected by most to finish above us have more resources than us (miles more in the case of City and Chelsea) and already have a head start. Our strategy seems to be to create a very solid base with players who are likely to be here for 5-10 years and then add some fantasy players once we have that base and CL football to offer.

Don't get me wrong, am not suggesting we can pay 250K a week for one player. Hell no. Am saying, sometimes timing is everything. I am not bashing the Carroll singning as I do think he has a chance to be a very good player even if he may never ever live up to 35 Mil - but am not as hung up about that as some are. What am saying is that say for arguments sake that we didn't sign Carroll when we did....and instead focused all our attention on Aguero either in that January tiny window we had left or waited till the end of the season and then went after Kun like gangbusters on day 1, I think we could have probably signed him for 35-38 Mil - which we had....and a that minute early on, Citeh had not really started focusing too much on Kun just yet because they hadn't figured out what they were doing with Tevez - just yet.

You strike early, you avoid bidding wars with Citeh who are really the only ones pushing the wage structures completely out of the real world hemisphere.

You make a good point about looking at the signings indidvidually vs as a whole - I think am not that far away from that group in that I do think Enrique was a hell of a buy for the price, and Downing - who I had my misgivings about as being the only winger we bring in - has done really well for what he is capable of. Never a world beater but you know he is gonna bring it week in and week out - excellent signingg. Am trying very hard to bite my tongue on the Henderson situation...not just the signing but the amount of minutes he is getting to play at the expense of others while he has not exactly been bloing it out of the park to justify his preferred status.

On Henderson, I keep telling myself....Lucas....Lucas....Lucas.....if he can do it, Jordan has a shot always :)

Kloppette
22-8-11, 17:19
Don't get me wrong, am not suggesting we can pay 250K a week for one player. Hell no. Am saying, sometimes timing is everything. I am not bashing the Carroll singning as I do think he has a chance to be a very good player even if he may never ever live up to 35 Mil - but am not as hung up about that as some are. What am saying is that say for arguments sake that we didn't sign Carroll when we did....and instead focused all our attention on Aguero either in that January tiny window we had left or waited till the end of the season and then went after Kun like gangbusters on day 1, I think we could have probably signed him for 35-38 Mil - which we had....and a that minute early on, Citeh had not really started focusing too much on Kun just yet because they hadn't figured out what they were doing with Tevez - just yet.

You strike early, you avoid bidding wars with Citeh who are really the only ones pushing the wage structures completely out of the real world hemisphere.

You make a good point about looking at the signings indidvidually vs as a whole - I think am not that far away from that group in that I do think Enrique was a hell of a buy for the price, and Downing - who I had my misgivings about as being the only winger we bring in - has done really well for what he is capable of. Never a world beater but you know he is gonna bring it week in and week out - excellent signingg. Am trying very hard to bite my tongue on the Henderson situation...not just the signing but the amount of minutes he is getting to play at the expense of others while he has not exactly been bloing it out of the park to justify his preferred status.

On Henderson, I keep telling myself....Lucas....Lucas....Lucas.....if he can do it, Jordan has a shot always :)

Even if you strike early a player will just wait to see what everyone else is offering, thats how it works. Players know when they are in demand so they wait even if the club agrees a price. Our signings have given is a better more improved team and squad. Just think if we can get Hazard in Jan, maybe even Coates B4 the 31st.

Gazza74
22-8-11, 17:20
Don't get me wrong, am not suggesting we can pay 250K a week for one player. Hell no. Am saying, sometimes timing is everything. I am not bashing the Carroll singning as I do think he has a chance to be a very good player even if he may never ever live up to 35 Mil - but am not as hung up about that as some are. What am saying is that say for arguments sake that we didn't sign Carroll when we did....and instead focused all our attention on Aguero either in that January tiny window we had left or waited till the end of the season and then went after Kun like gangbusters on day 1, I think we could have probably signed him for 35-38 Mil - which we had....and a that minute early on, Citeh had not really started focusing too much on Kun just yet because they hadn't figured out what they were doing with Tevez - just yet.

You strike early, you avoid bidding wars with Citeh who are really the only ones pushing the wage structures completely out of the real world hemisphere.

We couldn't strike early with Aguero though could we as he said nothing would be decided until after the Copa America and after he was then back from holiday?

And we don't know who we've been in for and who we haven't this summer to say we have not struck early but just got no indication that we're an attractive club this summer or the player wasn't ready to move for differing reasons.

I hate it but the CL and not being in it is a big factor in which players we can get and it's no surprise that these players are all moving to CL clubs this summer and maybe we're just not in with a chance sadly.

Mata allegedly wants to move to a CL club only as he's already in it with Valencia and so far i haven't seen an Aguero, Mata, Hazard, Sanchez, etc move to a club that isn't in the CL and we can say, "Hang on, they're not in the CL, why couldn't we have got them?".

I don't think we'd have got Aguero even if we went in for him and again, who's to say we didn't, we don't know either way.

As it is, my big hyped name that i wanted was Hazard and he ain't gone anywhere yet so if we miss out on Mata, Aguero and the others but he then comes next summer that'll do me.

pete752
22-8-11, 17:21
Even if you strike early a player will just wait to see what everyone else is offering, thats how it works. Players know when they are in demand so they wait even if the club agrees a price. Our signings have given is a better more improved team and squad. Just think if we can get Hazard in Jan, maybe even Coates B4 the 31st.

Coates would be a dream signing, he'd walk straight into the first 11 at Carra's expense (assuming Agger remains fit of course).

Snippes
22-8-11, 17:24
The Sky reference is a generalisation for impatient fans. I've supported this team since the 60's and we normally give players more than a couple of games before passing judgment on them.

Understood - and believe you me, am generally of the type that is begging people to be a little more patient when things don't kick off so rosy. The issue that some have is that...its not just these 2 games. Those games are only enforcing previous scepiticism, not creating them. There are those who raised major eyebrows when Henderson came out of nowhere to be our first signing. And at 16 Mil. We can sit here and defend the signing as a young one who has only played 2 games but admittedly, there were many fans who had seen him play before - and thought, WTF...why him, and why now and why for that much? Didn't think that much of him while at Sunderland. I know there wasn't a clamouring here for Jordan pre-linked to LFC as there was with Downing/Adams/Enrique etc. The only way this Jordan thing isn't getting shredded is because Kenny did it.

Right or wrong....that's where am hanging my hat on. That Kenny cannot be pushing these eggs basket so hard if there isn't something special in there somewhere that he trusts he will nurture out of the player. And because lesser hyped players have gone on to succeed when things didn't look so great. I am trusting Kenny - and trusting that he won't press on too hard to prove a point while the overall team suffers for it. Kenny is too big of a man to allow that to happen am sure.

FistofRage
22-8-11, 17:24
Clearly it's far Too early to judge our new signings but was it really a good idea to spend nearly 100M on British players given that England and Scotland get played off the park by pretty much every team around? We have lots of hard workers but very little in the way of technical players who can unlock a defence. More creativity needed ASAP I reckon. For the money we've spent we could have signed Cavani, Aguero, Mata and Hazard :eek:

We might still nick fourth with our current squad but only because KK is so amazing.

What exactly do you and all the other people calling for us to have signed Aguero, Mata, Hazard etc not understand about the following reasons why they won't come to Liverpool?

We are not in The Champions League.

We do not pay exorbitant wages.

naturalskill
22-8-11, 17:32
Adam made 7 tackles and won 7 tackles on Saturday.

source?

GottaWearShades
22-8-11, 17:35
Am trying very hard to bite my tongue on the Henderson situation...not just the signing but the amount of minutes he is getting to play at the expense of others while he has not exactly been bloing it out of the park to justify his preferred status.

On Henderson, I keep telling myself....Lucas....Lucas....Lucas.....if he can do it, Jordan has a shot always :)

Yep, as I said, this is the one that is strange for all of us I think. I personally am not so bothered on the fee. I think that is partly the owners/managers valuing young players differently than has been the tradition and thinking of 16m as an investment over a decade. I believe he will repay the club over that time and prove a sound investment.

It's just that I can't see how he is a priority over a CB, a striker who can offer something different and a player who can take on defenders. I suspect the only answer is that we are looking at re-building things over 3-4 windows not just one. This is a bigger job than some of us had realised i think, especially with the bloated payroll. I myself hadn't really focussed on how much money was going out in wages to deadwood until WineForMyMen pointed it out one day. We seem to be making progress there and between that and not losing 30m a year in interest should be nicely set.

SweetSilverSeven
22-8-11, 17:36
Don't get me wrong, am not suggesting we can pay 250K a week for one player. Hell no. Am saying, sometimes timing is everything. I am not bashing the Carroll singning as I do think he has a chance to be a very good player even if he may never ever live up to 35 Mil - but am not as hung up about that as some are. What am saying is that say for arguments sake that we didn't sign Carroll when we did....and instead focused all our attention on Aguero either in that January tiny window we had left or waited till the end of the season and then went after Kun like gangbusters on day 1, I think we could have probably signed him for 35-38 Mil - which we had....and a that minute early on, Citeh had not really started focusing too much on Kun just yet because they hadn't figured out what they were doing with Tevez - just yet.

You strike early, you avoid bidding wars with Citeh who are really the only ones pushing the wage structures completely out of the real world hemisphere.

You make a good point about looking at the signings indidvidually vs as a whole - I think am not that far away from that group in that I do think Enrique was a hell of a buy for the price, and Downing - who I had my misgivings about as being the only winger we bring in - has done really well for what he is capable of. Never a world beater but you know he is gonna bring it week in and week out - excellent signingg. Am trying very hard to bite my tongue on the Henderson situation...not just the signing but the amount of minutes he is getting to play at the expense of others while he has not exactly been bloing it out of the park to justify his preferred status.

On Henderson, I keep telling myself....Lucas....Lucas....Lucas.....if he can do it, Jordan has a shot always :)

The main thing with Aguero is that, he was ADORED by the atletico fans, and he wrote a letter to the fans saying that he wanted to leave to be more competetive and win trophies. Okay, there's no doubt that we have a better chance of offering that, but without CL football, why on earth would he wanna come to us

Isn't he better off staying at Atletico for another year, rather than come to us? Show a lil bit of loyalty

Plus we would've HAD to match at least the extorionate wages he was at atletico for, which again would've broken our wage structure too - a wage structure that we are STILL in the process of trying to regain control of

He was relunctant to move to Juve and Man city always had their eye on aguero for Tevez's replacement. There was no better "replacement" (apart from maybe suarez) for tevez and they were gonna go for him in january when Tevez handed his transfer request in, only to withdraw as no one wanted him (just like this summer)

And with henderson, I can personally picture what Kenny wants to do with him. He wants him to become a Ray-houghton-esq player for, someone who has the versatilty to play wide right and central midfield, and has the ability to drift between the two postions, and ultimately being the "disciplined" players which allows freedom for Johnson, Suarez, Gerrard/Adam (whichever one of them plays in CM) and Downing to do whatever they want and express themselves (He will allow freedom for Downing/Suarez indirectly). He's role would be to ""cover positions" "fill the gap" if you like, allowing more freedom for other players. He's also almost like a third CM if we need him, allowing us to control the midfield better, rather than having Suarez drop deep all the time (letting him fullyconcentrate on attack). Plus downing doesn't have to come narrow all the time either, to help us with possession coz henderson is ther, almost like a third midfielder whenever we need him, and downing can be out wide and express himself out there. I'm not really gonna go into anymore detail than that, but really, he is the only player I can imagine who can play that role specifically. Which is why we jumped in early, payed the money we did, coz there's no one else who could do that role - Not mata or hazard or anyone else... apart from stevie of course :rolleyes:

Plus, that sort of role, is a very difficult role to play tactically, and he will need time to learn about his teammate vefore he can fufil that role properly

Alpha Papa
22-8-11, 17:36
source?

Someone posted it and I have a good memory :)

It was Lucas 10/16 (I think) and Adam 7/7.

So Lucas still getting more involved, but Adam certainly doing his job when he goes for the tackle.

naturalskill
22-8-11, 17:40
Someone posted it and I have a good memory :)

It was Lucas 10/16 (I think) and Adam 7/7.

So Lucas still getting more involved, but Adam certainly doing his job when he goes for the tackle.

if those stats are anywhere near correct, that is excellent in terms of the modern game

Gazza74
22-8-11, 17:41
I suspect the only answer is that we are looking at re-building things over 3-4 windows not just one. This is a bigger job than some of us had realised i think,

As soon as Kenny bought Henderson i realised that he was wanting to rebuild the majority of the squad and not just add to it as he is happy with what he's inherited and just 5 or 6 players in the weaker positions and off we go.

You're right, in normal enhancing conditions Henderson probably wouldn't be needed, but at the beginning of a rebuilding process, it's obvious that someone like him would come in and in a position we feel in already strong.

Already strong for Rafa/Roy, who put those midfielders in there, but for Kenny, clearly not strong enough for what he wants long term, hence why he's added Adam and Henderson and will continue swapping, adding and building until maybe this time next year, maybe longer, to get the squad he can call his own and is fully happy with.

As with Evans, Houllier and Benitez, aslong as Kenny does a good job in the meantime he'll get to complete his rebuilding programme and then we'll see if he can succeed where the other 3 failed in taking that on to a league title, more than one if we're blessed with his return fully.

Snippes
22-8-11, 17:45
We couldn't strike early with Aguero though could we as he said nothing would be decided until after the Copa America and after he was then back from holiday?

And we don't know who we've been in for and who we haven't this summer to say we have not struck early but just got no indication that we're an attractive club this summer or the player wasn't ready to move for differing reasons.

I hate it but the CL and not being in it is a big factor in which players we can get and it's no surprise that these players are all moving to CL clubs this summer and maybe we're just not in with a chance sadly.

Mata allegedly wants to move to a CL club only as he's already in it with Valencia and so far i haven't seen an Aguero, Mata, Hazard, Sanchez, etc move to a club that isn't in the CL and we can say, "Hang on, they're not in the CL, why couldn't we have got them?".

I don't think we'd have got Aguero even if we went in for him and again, who's to say we didn't, we don't know either way.

As it is, my big hyped name that i wanted was Hazard and he ain't gone anywhere yet so if we miss out on Mata, Aguero and the others but he then comes next summer that'll do me.

Fine - we don't know for sure who tried what when. If we didn't discuss scenarios unless we had 100% hard core facts, there wouldn't be very much football to talk about on an outlet like this one.

The only thing I would say about Aguero stating he wouldn't do anything before the end of Copa - Zapata said the exact same thing 5 minutes before Villareal showed up with a concrete offer and he was a yellow submarine.

And I have always said that this CL thing is just used as an excuse for convenience because the way I have seen it, when a player is open to going to another club - like Liverpool who have a fantastic history in the tournament even if we are on a very temporary hiatus, if Liverpool come hard, with an offer - I honestly cannot see a player turning us down purely on that. CL is only ever used as cover by greedy arse players who want to pretend they didn't move for the money. Like Gael Clichy - who suddenly wanted to leave one of the most successful English clubs to go to another that has won one pee wee cup in like half a century, but yet he was moving because he "wanted to win things". :rolleyes: Nasri is another example.

All I know is Luis Suarez came here when we resembled more of a relegation team than a CL team - but he wanted to come here and help us fight and bring us back where we belong. Downing and Enrique could probably have gone to Arsenal with CL football - but when we came after them hard, because of the prestige of this club (that we seem to underestimate these days as fans) they chose to come here and fight for the CL, than run to the club that would just offer it on a silver platter before hand. Kun strikes me as one of these types of players - had we gone after him hard - he had made rumblings before about how he felt about Liverpool, doesn't seem to be the prima dona Tevez is - I just think we could have got him. But if we makes it public he is leaving, and we don't come charging - and Citeh does, he will go to citeh and that's that.

This isn't an indictment on Andy - I am still looking forward to seeing what kind of player Kenny can make him and to be fair, he seems to be Kenny's choice which is fair enough. But it just makes sense that other fans might look at this and wonder, okay Kenny knows best but why didn't we go for the other guy? He is better right now. And young. They all are....Kun/Mata etc all very young, all very much within the philosophy realm of our owners and management.

Gazza74
22-8-11, 17:53
Fine - we don't know for sure who tried what when. If we didn't discuss scenarios unless we had 100% hard core facts, there wouldn't be very much football to talk about on an outlet like this one.

Exactly, which is why i threw in the scenario that we may have gone for Aguero and it was a no go, he just didn't want to come here this summer.

Within a, "possible scenario's", line of thinking this is one of them.

Snippes
22-8-11, 18:02
What exactly do you and all the other people calling for us to have signed Aguero, Mata, Hazard etc not understand about the following reasons why they won't come to Liverpool?
We are not in The Champions League.

We do not pay exorbitant wages.

We don't understand why some here think we are suddenly Everton and can't attract the best talent when we just spent 100 Mil on signings overall? All those things you say about why Aguero or Mata or Hazard couldn't come here were more or less the same things that I heard said here about Suarez before we signed him. Yet he came - happily - because despite Liverpool's struggles or not being crazy wage bingers, he had tremendous respect for the history and traditions of the club and for him it was an honor when Liverpool fought so hard to get him. He didn't look back or sideways for CL football. And suddenly we have one of the top 5 strikers in the world playing for our team.

Not suggesting its easy - but if you work hard for what you want - no matter how challenging, when you get what you work real hard for - you see that you get what you pay for.

LFCYellowbelly
22-8-11, 18:37
We don't understand why some here think we are suddenly Everton and can't attract the best talent when we just spent 100 Mil on signings overall? All those things you say about why Aguero or Mata or Hazard couldn't come here were more or less the same things that I heard said here about Suarez before we signed him. Yet he came - happily - because despite Liverpool's struggles or not being crazy wage bingers, he had tremendous respect for the history and traditions of the club and for him it was an honor when Liverpool fought so hard to get him. He didn't look back or sideways for CL football. And suddenly we have one of the top 5 strikers in the world playing for our team.

Not suggesting its easy - but if you work hard for what you want - no matter how challenging, when you get what you work real hard for - you see that you get what you pay for.

But to achieve this also depends on the character and wishes of the player concerned not just the hard work of LFC trying to recruit them. Suarez came from Dutch league which does not have quite as high a standing and is also probably on substantial more wages then he was previously. Mata and Aguero both clearly want Champions League football now and would not take the risk of hoping we qualify this year. If that is there view and their priority then no amount of work by LFC is likely to change that when there are alternatives on offer that can give them what they want.

GottaWearShades
22-8-11, 19:10
Downing and Enrique could probably have gone to Arsenal with CL football.

The possibility of CL football.

ToTaLxTc
22-8-11, 19:21
Carroll is on 45k a week and Henderson about 35k a week

Carroll is on 70k per week actually. No idea about Henderson - though some bits and bobs on the Interweb claiming £65k :eek:.

lauriantero
22-8-11, 19:42
Someone posted it and I have a good memory :)

It was Lucas 10/16 (I think) and Adam 7/7.

So Lucas still getting more involved, but Adam certainly doing his job when he goes for the tackle.

That's correct. The source is the Guardian chalkboard (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create), which I think is reliable.

I hear people claim Adam doesn't tackle, and I wonder where that comes from. From what I've seen, he does tackle, and does it well, and the stats back that up. Against Sunderland he tackled 8 times, and won 7, according to the same source.

brummiered01
22-8-11, 19:46
There are probably question marks over all of our new signings other than Suarez, but personally i'm happy with them all.

Carroll is my biggest concern, but he still needs time to show what he can do.

Although he signed in Jan, he's almost like a summer signing considering how little he played last season

lauriantero
22-8-11, 19:59
There are several factors that play a part in attracting players. Wage is an important one, but defenately not the only one. Clubs chances of winning trophies is one factor, possibility to play in the CL, clubs name and status, the manager and the players the club have, the ambition, how well the club is sold, determination to get a player, making him feel welcome, playing time the club can offer. They all play a part.

The simple fact is that Chelsea and City can offer bigger wages, and seem more likely to challenge for trophies this season, so most of the time, if we compete for the same players, we don't get them. But it's not always that simple, though very often it is. We need to prove we're going to the right direction to have a better chance of getting some of those marquee signings

But like I said before, I'm happy with the business we've done so far. We have significantly improved our squad in the past 7 months, which is the most importabt thing. Now we need a good campaing to show we are progressing, and we need to get back to the CL. That will add our pulling power, and help us improve our squad even more. Then we might be able to beat City and Chelsea to sign some player. And then we can hopefully start talking about realistic chances of winning the title.

Alpha Papa
22-8-11, 20:18
There are several factors that play a part in attracting players. Wage is an important one, but defenately not the only one. Clubs chances of winning trophies is one factor, possibility to play in the CL, clubs name and status, the manager and the players the club have, the ambition, how well the club is sold, determination to get a player, making him feel welcome, playing time the club can offer. They all play a part.

The simple fact is that Chelsea and City can offer bigger wages, and seem more likely to challenge for trophies this season, so most of the time, if we compete for the same players, we don't get them. But it's not always that simple, though very often it is.

But like I said before, I'm happy with the business we've done so far. We have significantly improved our squad in the past 7 months, which is the most importabt thing. Now we need a good campaing to show we are progressing, and we need to get back to the CL. That will add our pulling power, and help us improve our squad even more. The we can hopefully start talking about realistic chances of winning the title.

Spot on. We're actually fairly lucky on that front here. Players in England and abroad will at least trust that Liverpool will make it up to CL in the not-too-distant future. Just like how Juventus managed to keep some players even when relegated.

Despite this, whilst we are out of CL, we will find it hard to attract the very very best. In my mind that means it was crucial that Kenny signed players who would be reliable, and who he could trust would improve us. I think Downing fits that mould perfectly, as does Enrique. I think Adam is close to a sure fire bet too, even at £7m.

It's going to be hard to watch the Aguero's and Modric's move to City and United, but I'm sure we can once again attract them and afford them if we hit top 4.

baglanboy
21-1-12, 19:37
If you buy mediocrity, you'll get mediocre results.

Discuss.

mafemijonathan
21-1-12, 19:42
simple...

lester
21-1-12, 19:46
Sorry get rid, they will never be good enough.

Sneets
21-1-12, 19:50
Sorry get rid, they will never be good enough.

You can add Downing and Kuyt to that list and perhaps Johnson as he is beginning to look slow and lazy.

AussieT
21-1-12, 19:51
You can add Downing and Kuyt to that list and perhaps Johnson as he is beginning to look slow and lazy.

and fat. But he just signed another deal

andy602
21-1-12, 19:51
and Adam

All ineffective

Joe-El
21-1-12, 19:52
Sorry get rid, they will never be good enough.

Agreed

lester
21-1-12, 19:52
I have always thought the Kelly is a better option at right back. He plays with fire in his belly.

Syndicato
21-1-12, 19:54
I recall starting a thread before the season began "Henderson Watch" and I said I wasn't impressed. I got harangued, negged and even banned at some stage.

I am not happy to say I told you so because I want every Liverpool player to succeed. But this lot bought by Kenny certainly leave a lot to be desired, apart from one or two.

Quite sad, really

old-school
21-1-12, 19:54
So all our British buys have turned out to be flops???

I totally agree with Downing and Carroll being shipped out and i wouldn't care if Adam was sold too, but Henderson has been better than the others.

bennywilks
21-1-12, 19:57
Same with everything

Buy a Specialized Mountain Bike for £6,000 it will last 10 years.
Buy a halfords bike for £50, yourchain will snap within 2 weeks, true story.

Sneets
21-1-12, 19:57
I have always thought the Kelly is a better option at right back. He plays with fire in his belly.

Which is why we need young and hungry players coming through, as you say the Kellys, Robinsons, Shelvey's etc.

Little Phil C
21-1-12, 19:59
I have always thought the Kelly is a better option at right back. He plays with fire in his belly.

this sell johnson in the summer

Sneets
21-1-12, 19:59
So all our British buys have turned out to be flops???

I totally agree with Downing and Carroll being shipped out and i wouldn't care if Adam was sold too, but Henderson has been better than the others.

Henderson looks neat and tidy but what is his actual contribution?

bennywilks
21-1-12, 20:00
Of all the transfers kenny has made i believe Suarez and Henderson are the only good deals. I do like henderson tbh and i hope hes the new lucas. I.e everybody slags him to the ground and then three seasons later he is kicking **** out of the prem

PascalCygan
21-1-12, 20:01
Henderson has showed some potential, but he's very incosistent, and can't seem to perform too well when the team are struggling. Not worth selling him, I reckon he'll come good, but probably needs to be surrounded by intelligent players. And he should be being bedded in, rather than the current situation whereby we rely on him to create and perform every match (keeping Meireles would have helped)

Carroll isn't good enough. Very, very few redeeming features - he doesn't even work hard. Ngog has a better minutes/goals ratio in the Prem this season, and he's been playing in a terrible Bolton side. And he's David Ngog. I think Carroll can play better than he has been doing, but its highly unlikely that he'll ever be good enough for a title-challenging team (which is possible in the long term, remember that FSG are absolutely fantastic and the club is building for the future)

mapapa
21-1-12, 20:01
Ngog was better than Carroll

boule12
21-1-12, 20:02
please guy stop believing that kenny is a god and do everything good. he was wronged with many of the purchase. so stop being hypocrites!!
we have spent too much money on rubbish

graham-47
21-1-12, 20:02
We have to many average players we have to start buying quality.
Im stunned by todays performance.
I think we need to look at the players over the last 12 months some have no improvement at all in fact some going down hill fast im not going to name and shame but some of them will never be good enough reguardless of there age.
they are not the quality we expect at liverpool you have to ask yourself this who would out of our currant crop of player would get into the teams of the 60,s 70's 80's 90's

AussieT
21-1-12, 20:03
Henderson looks neat and tidy but what is his actual contribution?

for starters he shouldnt be playing on the ******* right. That is KK fault big time!

Vayanovic
21-1-12, 20:03
Why Henderson? Is it the poor lads fault that he had to be put out on the right wing today, he worked his socks off today, should have started in the middle with Gerrard from the 1st minute.

Syndicato
21-1-12, 20:04
Henderson looks neat and tidy but what is his actual contribution?


Good question Sneets. That's where I am at a loss with some of our fans- this guy is very very lightweight. He is honestly a very average player and in future he may yet surprise me but what I have seen so far is pretty much what I said right at the beginning of the season- he ran Stevie ragged in just one game but I haven't seen anything else honestly. He strikes me as someone afraid of making a mistake, he hardly ever passes the ball forward, and he gets rid of the ball very quickly for a forward player.

I want him to do well but I am not impressed this far

Sneets
21-1-12, 20:06
Ngog was better than Carroll

Ngog's ball control is way ahead of Carroll as is his mobility, coordination and balance.

Liverdinner
21-1-12, 20:07
I'd get rid tbh.

They could possibly become decent players for us, but I dont think we can afford to wait.

Lomes
21-1-12, 20:07
I'd get rid tbh.

They could possibly become decent players for us, but I dont think we can afford to wait.

Why not?

bennywilks
21-1-12, 20:07
Of all the transfers kenny has made i believe Suarez and Henderson are the only good deals. I do like henderson tbh and i hope hes the new lucas. I.e everybody slags him to the ground and then three seasons later he is kicking **** out of the prem

Forgot Bellamy aswell

AussieT
21-1-12, 20:09
Forgot Bellamy aswell

+ jose (who has his worse game for us today but has been boss all year)

LFCDon
21-1-12, 20:09
I'd get rid tbh.

They could possibly become decent players for us, but I dont think we can afford to wait.

We can afford to wait on Hendo and Carroll, we just need to bring in some more people.

Now if we can get 60% of what we paid for them, then maybe. But I doubt
we could sell either of them for over 10m.

Fowi
21-1-12, 20:09
It's not bad enough that we paid £16mil for a player you can buy for £5mil abroad, but then we actually play him out of position and make him look even worse.

Liverdinner
21-1-12, 20:10
Why not?

We need quality now and we cant afford to persevere with these two who wont get us top 4 and trhis could damage us long term.

CoffeeShop
21-1-12, 20:11
**** off

Little Phil C
21-1-12, 20:11
Sell caroll but keep henderson just never play him on the right again

Syndicato
21-1-12, 20:11
Ngog's ball control is way ahead of Carroll as is his mobility, coordination and balance.

I remember you, Snipes, I and a few others saying we shouldn't get rid of this Ngog fella but the language got rabid and we were drowned out by people excited by Carroll.

Today was so paiful to watch a player who is not going to be as prolific as your van Persies, etc but a very useful squad player, leading the line so intelligently for the opposition.

It has recently been growing in my head that Liverpool have not won the league over the years not because we have not been capable but simply because we have frittered money away quite shockingly and made some very very bad decisions on the pitch

Bewdleyfan
21-1-12, 20:11
I thought Henderson was one of our better players today, and i'm sure those wishing that he would leave Liverpool are only doing so due to another turgid90 minutes of mediocre football.

The kid is the captain of the U-21's and in my opinion a great prospect, people are using him as a scapegoat for another lacklustre team display.

Carroll was doing okay in the first half, couple of nice through balls and flick on's. In the second however he was woeful, on occassion he looks such a beaten figure up front and i'm not sure what's going to happy with the Geordie. I do know that i'll carry on supporting him and Jordan as long as they're putting on Liverpool shirt though.

rubytuesday
21-1-12, 20:11
adam and henderson were the worst for me
adam started the season with promise and has since got worse and worse

CoffeeShop
21-1-12, 20:12
You think Henderson and Carroll are the problem ????? You ******* idiot.

Liverdinner
21-1-12, 20:13
We can afford to wait on Hendo and Carroll, we just need to bring in some more people.

Now if we can get 60% of what we paid for them, then maybe. But I doubt
we could sell either of them for over 10m.

Hmm, but they need games and we shouldnt be giving them games right now.

Syndicato
21-1-12, 20:13
Of all the transfers kenny has made i believe Suarez and Henderson are the only good deals. I do like henderson tbh and i hope hes the new lucas. I.e everybody slags him to the ground and then three seasons later he is kicking **** out of the prem

Lucas did not cost as much as Henderson for starters

LFCDon
21-1-12, 20:14
adam and henderson were the worst for me
adam started the season with promise and has since got worse and worse

Today? Johnson and Adam were the worst by a country mile...actually Johnson was a country mile worse than Adam, so does that make Johnson the worst by two country miles, compared to the others? i don't know, I am too disappointed to do math right now.

:confused:

Syndicato
21-1-12, 20:15
You think Henderson and Carroll are the problem ????? You ******* idiot.

How does swearing like this help your argument? If you have any....

Say your opposing argument without fuming, vomiting, frothing and urinating all over the thread. You are quite boring

Lomes
21-1-12, 20:15
We need quality now and we cant afford to persevere with these two who wont get us top 4 and trhis could damage us long term.

Ok, so if we get this season under out belt, learn our lessons and watch our new young team grow, then come out next season a different animal...what then..?

I dont understand the instant demand of quality...We have it, theres just something not quite working....

-SP7-
21-1-12, 20:15
Why did we go back to playing Henderson out of position when we've seen he is much better when played IN HIS POSITION. :mad:

TeenageMutantNinJaSkrtel
21-1-12, 20:15
Same with everything

Buy a Specialized Mountain Bike for £6,000 it will last 10 years.
Buy a halfords bike for £50, yourchain will snap within 2 weeks, true story.

Buy an Orange bike for 6k and give it a fat man, and he won't win a race.

Give a Halfords bike to Lance Armstrong and he will invariably win tour de france.

However Kenny is not a fat man. Neither of any of Downing, Henderson, Adam and Carroll are the level of a Halford's bicycle. :confused::D (Confucius say man who goes sideways through airport turnstyle is going to Bangcock).

A really bad performance today, but wins or draws against the Manchester teams and all is good again.

SweetSilverSeven
21-1-12, 20:15
I totally agree with Downing and Carroll being shipped out and i wouldn't care if Adam was sold too, but Henderson has been better than the others.



This

BrandonRodgers
21-1-12, 20:16
If you buy mediocrity, you'll get mediocre results.

Discuss.

No.

Liverdinner
21-1-12, 20:18
Ok, so if we get this season under out belt, learn our lessons and watch our new young team grow, then come out next season a different animal...what then..?

I dont understand the instant demand of quality...We have it, theres just something not quite working....

Because they arent up to it.

When I said decent players, I meant decent. That is all I expect them to be come. And why work our balls off for years, merely for decent?

Bewdleyfan
21-1-12, 20:18
Why did we go back to play Henderson out of position when we've seen he is much better when played IN HIS POSITION. :mad:

Indeed. I just mentioned in another thread, that when Adam was taken off and Henderson played more centrally, we had a far better shape, due to Jordan being seemingly comfortable playing with discipline in a defensive midfield role.

He's played there alongside Jack Rodwell for England U-21's, and for me, if Spearing is out, Henderson should be the most withdrawn midfielder in a three, with Gerrard and Adam/Shelvey (preferably Jonjo) ahead of him.

Adam and Stevie simply can't play together in a midfield two, not only do they not have enough discipline, but also takes away the attacking elements of their games, which are so key to their overall performance.