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Airbo
13-9-11, 15:20
MPs will take part in their first full-scale debate on the Hillsborough disaster on Monday night.



The debate was triggered when more than 139,000 people signed an e-petition for the full release of 40,000 documents relating to a tragedy which took the lives of 96 innocent Liverpool fans.

These papers include cabinet minutes which campaigners want releasing in an "unredacted, unedited and uncensored form".

The Government, which appealed in the High Court against full disclosure, insists it has every intention of releasing all papers to the Hillsborough Independent Panel.

A spokesman said: "The Government has confirmed its commitment to full transparency about the Hillsborough disaster through full public disclosure.

"The Government is happy for all the papers, including cabinet papers, to be released as soon as the panel so decides, in consultation with the families.

"We expect them to be shared with the Hillsborough families first and then to the wider public."

However, petitioners are demanding that the information given out is not pre-filtered before being handed to the families.

Prime Minister David Cameron has now apparently added his support to full disclosure.

If the House of Commons votes in favour, cabinet documents would reveal discussions held by then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in the days that followed our FA Cup semi-final with Nottingham Forest on April 15, 1989.

Steve Rotheram, Labour MP for Liverpool Walton, will submit a motion in the House of Commons on Monday and, unless Home Secretary Theresa May gives it her approval, there will then be a Commons vote.

Mr Rotheram said a vote in favour would be "a major a step towards finally achieving justice for the 96".

Chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group Margaret Aspinall said: "It's important that we get these cabinet minutes. You can't have the whole truth of Hillsborough without them and we've been shouting to have them released for 22 years. We hope all the documents will be released without censorship."

The debate is due to begin at 7pm BST on Monday.


danroan Dan Roan
Breaking: Parliament will debate the release of the Hillsborough files for the first time in 13 years on Oct 17th in the Chamber

:scarfJFT96:scarf

Maxi-Driver
13-9-11, 15:23
Let's hope they release them.

TheWalkingRed
13-9-11, 15:25
Cannot believe it has taken this long.Scandalous.

Airbo
13-9-11, 15:26
Let's hope they release them.

Amen to that

stevewas
13-9-11, 15:26
Fantastic news.

UrbanRed
13-9-11, 16:28
There's NOTHING to debate. They need to just release the papers, ALL the papers that should never have been kept hidden. All this filibustering has one purpose and one purpose only and that is to delay the release and give time to the people in certain places of privelige to 'lose' certain incrimnatory documents and continue the protection of high ranking Freemason police officers and the High Priestess of Evil herself Maggie Thatcher.

So I repeat, there is nothing to debate, release ALL the unaltered papers and let the truth be known. Be published or be damned.

JFT96

Airbo
13-9-11, 16:29
SteveRotheramMP Steve Rotheram
Lets not get carried away. We have secured a HoC debate, but this is not the end of the fight. Thanks to Mside MPs/ @andyburnhammp & others.

UrbanRed
13-9-11, 16:37
SteveRotheramMP Steve Rotheram
Lets not get carried away. We have secured a HoC debate, but this is not the end of the fight. Thanks to Mside MPs/ @andyburnhammp & others.

Exactly my point and Steve should know, he's well aware of the delaying tactics of Parliamentary debate. I'm amazed at how some people think that a debate in the lower House is always something positive. There are as many debates held aimed at delaying bills as there are to pass bills. The whole thing is a farce and there should be no need for any debate, release the papers and be done with it, what do they have to hide? what reasons do they have to even debate their release? NONE !!!! None ofcourse unless certain people in high places would be tarnished and possibly face prosecution, in short, protection of the guilty and at the expense of every single family member of our 96 lost and never forgotten heroes.

'Stim
13-9-11, 16:56
There shouldn't have to be a debate,this information should've been rightfully given to the Families two decades ago. It's time the members of parliament showed some humanity to the long suffering families and light a fire under this abomination.
Let the truth be known and allow

Justice For The Ninety Six

stevenc
13-9-11, 17:04
This is a major step forward

Incidentally, 96 MP's supported call for debate on release of Hillsborough documents...coincidence or fate?

UrbanRed
13-9-11, 17:12
This is a major step forward

Incidentally, 96 MP's supported call for debate on release of Hillsborough documents...coincidence or fate?

i appreciate the work Steve Rotheram is doing to get the debate, thats his line of work and he's doing what he can as not only an MP but as a committed red hot Liverpool fan. But that doesnt change the fact that we shouldnt even be in this position. The system is using all its rules and procedure to block, hide and delay the release of information directly related to the handling of a disaster which cost 96 lives and the behaviour, orders and comments of the people in charge at the time including the Evil Witch Thatcher and her moronic boot licking cabinet.

JFT96

Alpha Papa
13-9-11, 17:39
BBC article on it. Great news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14903835

Alpha-kenny-wun
13-9-11, 19:20
it's about time! ynwa

davenicoll
13-9-11, 19:31
Give em hell Steve Rotheram!!! Let's see those files they have hidden away for so long...too long!!!!

YNWA! JFT 96!!!!!!

RogerHuntelaar
13-9-11, 19:34
Good, finally.

beijingbenny
13-9-11, 19:34
Although it's a step in the right direction, of course - for god's sake, just get on with it! How long does it need to take..?

It's just so insensitive to prolong it so long. I can't imagine how frustrating it much be for the families of the victims.

Let's hope they don't have to wait another 13 years, and they finally get the justice they deserve.

YNWA

RIP the 96

MiraclesArePossible
13-9-11, 19:37
My worry is that this government won't want to bring to light mistakes that the Thatcher government made, and that any debate they have will be tainted with the ulterior motive of not allowing a previous Conservative government to come under scrutiny. This fight is far from over and we need all the help we can get from those in Parliament to make sure that David and co. don't just sweep this under the carpet the way his predecessors of 22 years succeeded in doing.

LiverpoolOne
13-9-11, 19:41
JFT96 - YNWA

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/video/News-and-Interviews/11-12/Hillsborough-fi-28256.php3

UrbanRed
13-9-11, 19:49
My worry is that this government won't want to bring to light mistakes that the Thatcher government made, and that any debate they have will be tainted with the ulterior motive of not allowing a previous Conservative government to come under scrutiny. This fight is far from over and we need all the help we can get from those in Parliament to make sure that David and co. don't just sweep this under the carpet the way his predecessors of 22 years succeeded in doing.

Well said.

sjcrosby
14-9-11, 00:46
well done all who signed the e-petition. Nice to feel that we have in a small way done something for the 96.

To me, the good thing about Oct 17th, is that it will be televised. This increases publicity and awareness for the campaign, & could very well lead to more MPs supporting the cause.

Unfortunately, some parts of the media will regurgitate their usual dross, but some might well report accurately.

We're not there yet, but this is definitely a step in the right direction.

J96. YNWA

naturalskill
14-9-11, 01:03
There shouldn't have to be a debate,this information should've been rightfully given to the Families two decades ago. It's time the members of parliament showed some humanity to the long suffering families and light a fire under this abomination.
Let the truth be known and allow

Justice For The Ninety Six

absolutely

Graggster
14-9-11, 01:24
My worry is that this government won't want to bring to light mistakes that the Thatcher government made, and that any debate they have will be tainted with the ulterior motive of not allowing a previous Conservative government to come under scrutiny. This fight is far from over and we need all the help we can get from those in Parliament to make sure that David and co. don't just sweep this under the carpet the way his predecessors of 22 years succeeded in doing.

To be fair to David he made an apology for ****** sunday.

NACNUD
14-9-11, 07:05
Good Morning.......

maybe a good idea for everyone in the UK to start writing to their local MP's to support this and vote in favour of the papers being released at the end of the debate on the 17th.........

Justice for the 96...their families and suvivours

Em-inLeam
14-9-11, 12:58
Benitez had earlier told Sportsmail: 'I signed the petition already and I have been supporting that decision.

'We will have a dinner soon to raise more funds for the foundation that I have helped create with my wife, and part of that money raised will go to the Hillsborough Family Group, so we have been supporting it from day one.

'I think the people have to know, because they have been waiting for too many years for answers. It is important that someone comes out with the answers and from there we can move forward a little bit more.'

http://rafabenitez.com/web/datos_web/1315930343_DebateDateDailyMail.pdf

Ganymede
14-9-11, 13:04
Haven't the Government said they will release everything but only after the family have seen it first?

KurtAngle
14-9-11, 13:07
Haven't the Government said they will release everything but only after the family have seen it first?

I could be behind the times but I think they were going to allow the family to see everything but not make it public knowledge.

Em-inLeam
14-9-11, 13:08
Haven't the Government said they will release everything but only after the family have seen it first?

I thought the Government were going to have a debate about it in October?

Ganymede
14-9-11, 13:10
I thought the Government were going to have a debate about it in October?



Must have dreamt it then. :D

Em-inLeam
14-9-11, 13:12
Must have dreamt it then. :D

That's a good dream though, hope it comes true :)

KingKev75
14-9-11, 13:34
Benitez had earlier told Sportsmail: 'I signed the petition already and I have been supporting that decision.

'We will have a dinner soon to raise more funds for the foundation that I have helped create with my wife, and part of that money raised will go to the Hillsborough Family Group, so we have been supporting it from day one.

'I think the people have to know, because they have been waiting for too many years for answers. It is important that someone comes out with the answers and from there we can move forward a little bit more.'

http://rafabenitez.com/web/datos_web/1315930343_DebateDateDailyMail.pdf

Rafa gets it he really does. He always has. An absolute gentleman, I hope one day he tells his side of events.That board of scumbag directors at the time should be shot.

-Monk-
14-9-11, 13:39
Major respect for Rafa.

slimman
14-9-11, 13:44
Good work Rafa.

Zubee
14-9-11, 13:46
After Kenny he's the first manager who has taken hillsborough seriously ,he has really helped it's cause .very great man

smokintony
14-9-11, 13:52
After Kenny he's the first manager who has taken hillsborough seriously ,he has really helped it's cause .very great man

Evans and Houllier have also shown support

Mapeke
14-9-11, 13:58
Rafa is a great man. You don't have to like him as a manager to know that.

Alpha Papa
14-9-11, 13:58
Props to Rafa. Always speaks well on this subject.

Batigol9
16-9-11, 21:29
By Brian Reade
Published 21:02 16/09/11

I’ve lost count of the number of people I’ve heard these past 22 years ask why the Hillsborough Families won’t let it lie.

Move on, you can’t bring back your loved ones, so let it go, they say.

I heard it again this week after a 140,00-strong petition compelled parliament to debate whether documents relating to Margaret Thatcher’s handling of the 1989 disaster should be released uncensored.

“What good will it do?” someone asked me. I’d like to explain.

A few years ago I asked Trevor Hicks if he thought he’d ever establish the truth about why he lost his two beautiful teenage daughters that day.

He told me he already had. He was in no doubt that they died through police incompetence, inadequate safety procedures, a non-existant emergency service response and a culture that had allowed society to view all football fans as dangerous scum and stick them in metal cages.

He sought another truth. Why the Establishment had wriggled out of all blame, smeared the fans as killers, lied about their actions and refused to take any responsibility for the deaths, thus denying the deceased justice and the bereaved closure.

And he said if he could be granted one wish before he died it would be to find out what was said between Margaret Thatcher and police chiefs when she visited the Leppings Lane terrace the day after the disaster.

Because someone in high places had told him that Thatcher decided it was imperative that the police were exonerated. That the consequences for a force she treated almost as her private army, would be immense if (as Lord Justice Taylor’s report later demanded) they took the rap for 96 deaths in their care.

And so the cover-up began with her press adviser Bernard Ingham briefing the media that the disaster had been caused by a “tanked-up mob”.

Three days later the Thatcher-supporting Sun’s infamous front-page about fans urinating on the dead and stealing from their pockets appeared after collusion between the Police Federation and a Tory MP. The story went round the world that drunken fans killed their own. And the truth was buried.

So for Trevor Hicks, the Thatcher documents, which constitute the minutes from that Sheffield meeting and other correspondence with her ministers, could be the smoking gun that proves a conspiracy which went right to the top of the Tory government.

Which is why it’s no surprise that the current one is fighting to stop those secret papers being made public despite the Information Commissioner demanding it be done.

If, as the families suspect, the Tories have something to hide, we need to find out what it is. Which is why MPs will demand next month that every document relating to Thatcher’s role be released in an “unrestricted, uncensored and unredacted” form.

If they win the day it won’t just be a great day for the 96 but for football. Because hers was the government that caged fans, that thought about bringing in electric fences, moats and ID cards and would willingly have killed the game.

If they win I don’t care whether the documents go straight into the public domain or to the independent Hillsborough panel. As someone lucky enough to survive that day though, I do have one wish. That if those papers contain the smoking gun, the trigger is pulled in public before Thatcher dies.

Because I’ve waited a long time to see that bullet fly.


Excellent article.

Captain Mauser
16-9-11, 21:45
There's already a queue from Bootle to Town of people wanting to ..... on her grave... This could extend it to Speke.

Jannno
16-9-11, 21:53
There's already a queue from Bootle to Town of people wanting to ..... on her grave... This could extend it to Speke.

and they talk about having a state funeral for her, as if she has been some great uniting figure in the the nation's history. There'd be demonstrations all along the way and she'd get no dignity, the family would be mad to agree to it.

HyppHyppHurray
16-9-11, 22:15
and they talk about having a state funeral for her, as if she has been some great uniting figure in the the nation's history. There'd be demonstrations all along the way and she'd get no dignity, the family would be mad to agree to it.

The route would go from Mayfair to Kensington to Belgravia to Westminster.

No worries there. :rolleyes:

Jannno
16-9-11, 22:16
The route would go from Mayfair to Kensington to Belgravia to Westminster.

No worries there. :rolleyes:

Ha true :D

paul143
16-9-11, 22:22
and they talk about having a state funeral for her, as if she has been some great uniting figure in the the nation's history. There'd be demonstrations all along the way and she'd get no dignity, the family would be mad to agree to it.

technically she did, after all look how many brits have been bought together in her hatred of her.

although if they hold the funeral in port stanley i don't think there will be any dissenting voices.

FIOS
16-9-11, 22:25
and they talk about having a state funeral for her, as if she has been some great uniting figure in the the nation's history. There'd be demonstrations all along the way and she'd get no dignity, the family would be mad to agree to it.

As the arl joke goes, she should have a state funeral just so everyone could double check that the ***** is really dead.

Bombay Money Lender
16-9-11, 23:19
technically she did, after all look how many brits have been bought together in her hatred of her.

although if they hold the funeral in port stanley i don't think there will be any dissenting voices.

Be a different pov if it was held in port talbot

LiverpoolOne
16-10-11, 20:42
Parliament debate is finally here tomorrow. Not been able to find exact time but the following info is from parliament web site:


2.30pm

Oral Questions - Education, including Topical Questions

Motion - Relating to MPs’ pensions

Backbench Business - Motion relating to disclosure and publication of public documents relating to the 1989 Hillsborough disaster (due to start at 7pm)

Adjournment - Tower Hamlets city status bid - Jim Fitzpatrick

http://services.parliament.uk/calendar/#/calendar/Commons/MainChamber/2011/10/17/events.html


JFT 96 - thoughts are with the families for tomorrow - YNWA

grenny158
16-10-11, 20:55
Not sure whether this question has been asked / answered, but wouldn't there be a greater chance of the documents being released if a Labour government were in power? And, if so, why weren't they released when Labour were in? Wouldn't Labour relish the chance to kick the Tories in the nuts?

Ellibertador
16-10-11, 21:08
Sounds promising.

Eddes
16-10-11, 21:10
Its about time they stopped fannying around and just gave the families the info.

They don't seem to get it do they ? This is never going away.

Ellibertador
16-10-11, 21:47
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/oct/16/hillsborough-families-call-on-sun-to-reveal-sources?INTCMP=SRCH

Interesting article from Conn:

The chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group has called on the Sun to reveal the identities of its sources for a notorious story which in effect blamed Liverpool fans for causing the 1989 disaster, in which 96 of the club's supporters died.

Margaret Aspinall, whose 18-year-old son James died at the FA Cup semi-final at Hillsborough stadium, said it was vital, as part of the official disclosure of all public documents relating to the disaster which MPs will debate in parliament on Monday evening, that the Sun should say exactly who was behind its briefing.

Headlined "THE TRUTH" and run on 19 April 1989, four days after the disaster, the newspaper's story alleged that the disaster followed "mass drunkenness" among Liverpool supporters, and that some fans had urinated on police and on victims, and picked victims' pockets as their bodies lay on the pitch. The Sun said the allegations had come from unnamed South Yorkshire police officers.

Aspinall said the report was deeply traumatic for families struggling with shock and grief, and "set the injustice in train" as the police prepared their case – to blame the supporters for causing the disaster – at Lord Justice Taylor's official inquiry and the inquest.

As a result of the report, the Sun was subject to a boycott on Merseyside which has substantially lasted until today, despite attempts over the years by the paper to apologise.

In Taylor's report into the disaster in August 1989, he described the Sun's stories as "grave and emotive calumnies" and wholly discredited them, saying: "Not a single witness was called before the inquiry to support any of those allegations."

The then South Yorkshire police chief constable, Peter Wright, dissociated himself from the allegations, but Aspinall said the families had always felt it set public opinion and officialdom into believing that version of events.

"That story, that our children were drunken yobs, came as we were grieving for their loss, and we had to defend their good names," she said. "It set people's minds, which you can still see even now, that the disaster was caused by the fans, not by the police losing control. That set the injustice in train, the real truth never came out at the inquest, and nobody in authority has ever been held to account.

"If we are now to discover the real truth, let the Sun tell us who gave them those lies which caused so much damage.

"If the Sun wants to make amends, they should reveal who it was, not allow their sources to hide behind anonymous briefings 22 years later, and help the families to understand what happened."

MPs will debate the current public document disclosure process in the Commons after more than 100,000 people signed an e-petition calling for "full government disclosure and publication of all documents" following a freedom of information request by the BBC.

The Hillsborough families have campaigned particularly to be told about the briefings South Yorkshire police gave to the then prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, when she visited Hillsborough the day after the disaster.

Her then press secretary, Sir Bernard Ingham, said later that he "learned on the day" that the disaster was caused by a "tanked-up mob" of Liverpool supporters.

The home secretary, Theresa May, is expected to restate the government's position, which is a "commitment to full transparency about the Hillsborough disaster through full public disclosure".

That will, the government has confirmed, include cabinet papers from the time, but it is not yet clear if those discussions will detail the briefings Thatcher received from South Yorkshire police.

An independent panel of experts chaired by James Jones, the bishop of Liverpool, has been set up to examine the huge archive, and write a report setting out how the new material adds to public understanding of the disaster. The intention is to produce "as near to the full story as possible," Jones has said.

May is likely to say all the papers, including those of Thatcher's cabinet at the time, should be disclosed first to the panel, who will share them with the victims' families before they are released for publication.

"The government is happy for all the papers, including cabinet papers, to be released as soon as the panel so decides, in consultation with the families," a government spokesman said.

Andy Burnham, Labour's shadow health spokesman, who, with another Merseyside Labour MP, Maria Eagle, initiated the public disclosure process on the 20th anniversary of the disaster two years ago, is expected to support that view.

He said he was already looking beyond the disclosure of documents to an ultimate process of "truth and reconciliation".

"After Hillsborough, the lie was set early on that Liverpool supporters had forced open an exit gate and rushed through it, when in fact the police had ordered the gate to be opened," Burnham said.

"What the families of innocent victims were then put through belongs to an era from which we have moved on, when the authorities were able to abuse ordinary people in a sickening way.

"When the full disclosure has happened and the report is written, I believe there should be an appropriate national response and process of reconciliation.

"The prime minister, David Cameron, gave a very dignified response to the Saville report into ****** Sunday, and offered an unqualified apology for what took place. I believe the Hillsborough families will deserve a response on that scale."

In his 1989 report, Taylor concluded that South Yorkshire police's mismanagement of the crowd was "the immediate cause" of the disaster, together with safety failures by Sheffield Wednesday FC, the owner of Hillsborough, and Sheffield city council, which failed in its safety certifying role.

News International did not respond to questions as to whether the Sun would be prepared to reveal the identity of its sources for the story.

LLS
17-10-11, 09:18
Just on twitter at the moment, and the journalist Paul Kelso is making some very good but worrying points.

He says that many of Thatcher's cabinet in 1989 during Hillsborough are still MPs and some are now even more influential than ever before.

There is still a real battle on to find justice.

LLS
17-10-11, 09:50
Good news is that, as of 9.49am anyway, the Hillsborough story is BBC News's second leading story after the Wheldon crash.

danm77
17-10-11, 10:10
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/8830811/PM-backing-for-Hillsborough-disclosure.html

Relatives of 96 Liverpool fans killed in the Hillsborough disaster have come a step closer to learning the full truth of what happened after David Cameron backed calls to release secret papers on the tragedy.

The Prime Minister revealed his pledge in a letter to Labour's Andy Burnham, seen by the Daily Mirror.

He wrote: "The Government is committed to full disclosure of the Hillsborough information it holds. We have proposed that disclosure takes place to the families prior to wider publication."

MPs are debating the full disclosure of documents about the 1989 tragedy in the House of Commons today, after an e-petition garnered more than 100,000 signatures.

Ministers have already indicated that they back the uncensored release of all material, including key Cabinet minutes.

The Hillsborough families are particularly keen to learn about briefings South Yorkshire Police gave then prime minister Margaret Thatcher during a visit the day after the tragedy at the Sheffield Wednesday stadium.

Home Secretary Theresa May is expected to restate the government's position is a "commitment to full transparency about the Hillsborough disaster through full public disclosure".

It is the second petition to be debated in the Commons since the coalition introduced the e-petition system. MPs considered the riots last week, and are also set to discuss British membership of the European Union.

markgrancanaria
17-10-11, 11:28
Talksport now talking in detail.

TomHighwaysM16
17-10-11, 11:40
May I ask, what will justice look like?

adriano8
17-10-11, 13:09
Just read this interesting piece from media commentator and journalism professor Roy Greenslade on that paper and that headline.

The reporter on that story says he pleaded with that editor not to go through with the headline:

Thought it might be of interest.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2011/oct/17/sun-hillsborough-disaster


I see that the Hillsborough family support group has called on The S-n to reveal the sources for its notorious story about the 1989 football disaster in which 96 people died.


The paper ran a splash, headlined THE TRUTH, which blamed Liverpool fans for causing the tragedy.

It alleged that some fans had urinated on police and on victims, had stolen from victims and beaten up a policeman who was trying to give the kiss of life.

The story, just four days after the deaths, began: "Drunken Liverpool fans viciously attacked rescue workers... it was revealed last night."

But revealed by who? The S-n attributed the claims to South Yorkshire police officers.

One thing was clear at the time. The S-n's reporter did not make up the allegations because other papers (including the Daily Mirror and Daily Star) carried similar claims.

What caused the outrage on Merseyside, leading to the swift imposition of a boycott that continues to this day, was the way The S-n presented the story.

Its "truth" headline indicated that the paper believed the claims. That was its offence.

Indeed, within a day, the usually feeble S-n ombudsman, Ken Donlan, ruled that the headline was wrong. The editor, Kelvin MacKenzie, admitted on radio he had made "a rather serious error."

Rupert Murdoch also felt it politic to make a public statement in which he said the coverage was "uncaring and deeply offensive to relatives of the victims."

Within The S-n's office there was outrage too. It emerged that the reporter responsible for writing the story, having seen the front page layout in advance, had pleaded with MacKenzie not to use the "truth" headline.


The other papers that published similar allegations were a little more circumspect. The Mirror ("Fury as police claim victims were robbed") and Star ("Dead fans robbed by drunk thugs") distanced themselves by referring to the allegations as allegations.

Even Liverpool's own title, the Daily Post, carried an article headlined "I blame the yobs", which accused gatecrashing fans of being responsible for what happened.

"Scouse killed Scouse for no better reason than 22 men were kicking a ball," it said.

These lies - for that is what they were, as the subsequent Taylor inquiry made abundantly clear - were also reported on radio and TV (see this ITN report, for example, and especially this one).

That latter clip begins with a shot of a South Yorkshire police federation spokesman walking away from the camera. In the voice-over the reporter states that he had accused the Liverpool fans of hooliganism.

My understanding from The S-n's reporter, who has spoken to me several times about the story down the years, is that the source (or sources) of the allegations were located within the South Yorkshire force.

The allegations made by the police were certainly contained in agency copy filed to every newspaper. I cannot be sure, but I don't think The S-n had a different source.

Again, the problem was caused by the headline and the uncritical way it reported the claims, assuming that they were true.

I am sympathetic to the Hillsborough families (and who could not be?), but I don't think The S-n can reveal much at all.

It is possible that the release of internal police documents will point a finger towards an individual, though I somehow doubt it. As Andy Burnham MP reveals in today's Mirror, the cover-up began early on with attempts to suppress at least one policemen's sincere distress.

As for The S-n's source, I would be amazed that anyone really knows. The paper's reporter now lives abroad in retirement, but I think he relied on agency copy.

The editor, MacKenzie, is now a Daily Mail columnist, but I doubt that he ever knew of any specific source.

The ITN clip is crucial because it shows just where the families should concentrate their fire. The South Yorkshire force had a motive - to distract attention from its own failings, as highlighted by Taylor - and the opportunity to brief journalists off the record.

All the newspapers, news agencies, TV and radio outlets, relied entirely on the police for the reporting of scandalous and inaccurate allegations.

The S-n's sin was to believe them. That's why the boycott has held so firmly over 22 years.

Alpha Papa
17-10-11, 13:19
Interesting article.

I saw Kelvin McKenzie speak the other day about newspaper regulation. He said that the only story he EVER checked the source for was one about Elton John and rent-boys. He checked the source, believed it, and still ended up being sued successfully for millions by Elton John.

McKenzie said (and this is almost the correct quotation.. from memory though) "Except for that one occasion, I never once checked a source. If a story and headline felt true, I ok'ed it".

What this article shows me, therefore is:

1) McKenzie would happily overrule his reporter and push through a very controversial headline, without knowing even asking about the sources;

2) McKenzie would take an active role as editor, in deciding the exact nature of the front page;

3) McKenzie was criminally negligent in his duty of care to both readers, the Hillsborough families, and his own newspaper.

The man disgusts me. I genuinely think there is a serious civil and/or criminal case against the man personally, not just the paper. He has hung himself on his own words. How he can possibly override the reporter and insist on 'The Truth' headline when he openly he admits he didn't even check the source, is completely beyond me.

JFT 96.

caspertheghost
17-10-11, 13:24
McKenzie I reckon is despised more than Ferguson, the "man" is dirt.

woody
17-10-11, 13:26
On Sky's Boulton programme. What class she showed. In the face of everything, not least this continued evasion from the authorities, to show that dignity and to speak so articulately; ENORMOUS respect for her.

(Posted this on the Hillsborough forum but really wanted it to be seen)

HenryGondorff
17-10-11, 14:11
yeah mate - strong strong woman - big respect and to the others behind the scenes

LordJamieOfCarragher
17-10-11, 14:43
Is it 7pm tonight or 6pm?

JoeRedLabo
17-10-11, 14:43
merge thread sorry.

LordJamieOfCarragher
17-10-11, 14:54
merge thread sorry.

No problem, merged and stickied.

JoeRedLabo
17-10-11, 15:13
thdoyley john doyle
by TonyEvansTimes
@TonyEvansTimes @SteveRotheramMP: RT let others know debate in the House of Commons might now start before 6pm 2nite #debateHillsborough.”

LLS
17-10-11, 15:26
I know it might be interpreted as a horrible thing to say, but I think it would be unwise for us to get our hopes up too much.

My gut feeling is that today is just another step on the long road to justice. Really hope there's not far to go though.

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 15:44
thdoyley john doyle
by TonyEvansTimes
@TonyEvansTimes @SteveRotheramMP: RT let others know debate in the House of Commons might now start before 6pm 2nite #debateHillsborough.”

For those who may not know here is the Parliament.tv link

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=9133

Batfink
17-10-11, 15:59
Hopefully there will be a few more present when it comes around to dicussing this!

RogerHuntelaar
17-10-11, 16:07
For those who may not know here is the Parliament.tv link

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=9133

Cheers mate thanks

Ellibertador
17-10-11, 16:21
It's now saying on twitter that it will be debated today at 5.40pm on channel 504.

LLS
17-10-11, 16:34
Just flicked onto the BBC Parliament channel (81 on freeview) and the debate over MP's pensions is going on.

The speaker just interrupted and basically told people to get a move on because the next debate is of exceptional importance and he doesn't want it to be unduly delayed.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 16:39
Just flicked onto the BBC Parliament channel (81 on freeview) and the debate over MP's pensions is going on.

The speaker just interrupted and basically told people to get a move on because the next debate is of exceptional importance and he doesn't want it to be unduly delayed.

Great!! :scarf

JoeRedLabo
17-10-11, 16:48
Joey7Barton Joseph Barton
Just off to the house of commons for the debate on Hillsborough. Big thanks to big Shaun from Manchester, for sorting it.....

LordJamieOfCarragher
17-10-11, 16:58
The Echo is running a live blog (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2011/10/17/hillsborough-debate-follow-our-live-house-of-commons-blog-from-5-30pm-100252-29610751/) from 5:30pm

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 17:11
Joey7Barton Joseph Barton
Just off to the house of commons for the debate on Hillsborough. Big thanks to big Shaun from Manchester, for sorting it.....

Credit to Joey
He has been behind this all the way :)

Jaythered
17-10-11, 17:38
I have sky channel 504 on now. Is it wrong to wish us luck? I hope not. Good luck to The Real Truth!

JTF96 & :scarf & YNWA

LLS
17-10-11, 17:38
House is gradually filling up now.

Is it scheduled for 6??

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 17:42
About to start I think.

Yes Steve Rotheram standing

LLS
17-10-11, 17:42
Here we go.

Didn't fill up that much, disappointingly.

MignoLetItBe
17-10-11, 17:43
It's just started.

Simonnnnn
17-10-11, 17:50
This is a fantastic opening speech from Steve Rotheram.

Jaythered
17-10-11, 17:52
Powerful powerful stuff.

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 17:52
Rotheram doing very well at what is such a difficult task

Thespian
17-10-11, 17:57
I thought this was starting at 7 :eek: what have I missed?

LordJamieOfCarragher
17-10-11, 17:58
Rotheram doing very well at what is such a difficult task

He's doing brilliantly.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:00
Fantastic speech Rotheram!! :scarf

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 18:01
Absolutely heart-wrenching.

God bless the families.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:06
I'm welling up here :(

Shauninho
17-10-11, 18:06
Go ed Rotheram lad!

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 18:07
What a lovely and moving thing to read out the 96 names. YNWA

Simonnnnn
17-10-11, 18:07
Reading the names of each person now, this is hard to watch, so sad :( Justice For The Ninety Six.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:08
So many.... So young :(

Morsy
17-10-11, 18:09
This is very hard to watch :(

Boston-Sox
17-10-11, 18:10
:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying:crying

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 18:11
Well done Steve, incredible composure.

Simonnnnn
17-10-11, 18:12
That was hard, but so inspirational. Well done Steve, you did so well.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:12
I am in tears here :(

Well done Rotheram!!

Syndicato
17-10-11, 18:12
well, the good thing is hopefully the real truth will out and we can all know exctly what happened without some politicians treating the deaths of fellow fans so cheaply

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 18:13
NO papers will be withheld!!!

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:18
NO papers will be withheld!!!

How do we know that ALL the papers are released
What's to say that some are not held back

-FidelCastro-
17-10-11, 18:18
Minimal redaction of the papers and all have to be ratified by the HIP

BVA
17-10-11, 18:18
Reading out the 96 names means every one goes down in parliamentary history, every word spoken in the house is recorded in the minutes and kept on public file.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:22
Well said Andy :scarf

Morsy
17-10-11, 18:25
Well said Andy :scarf

Indeed

Tom91k
17-10-11, 18:25
Lot of respect for Andy, true scouser fighting the good fight!

Justice for the 96.

Jaythered
17-10-11, 18:27
Nailed it!!!

JFT96

LordJamieOfCarragher
17-10-11, 18:30
Rotheram and Burnham have done us proud.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:32
Rotheram and Burnham have done us proud.

:scarf

RedNets19
17-10-11, 18:34
Finally it looks like the 96 are going to get the justice that they deserve!

Tom91k
17-10-11, 18:36
Rotheram and Burnham have done us proud.

If they do this and get justice, we should give a tribute to them like parade them infront of the Kop before a game to show are gratitude.

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 18:37
Well done Andy Burnham.

JFT96

SirShankly
17-10-11, 18:39
If they do this and get justice, we should give a tribute to them like parade them infront of the Kop before a game to show are gratitude.

Could not agree more :scarf

PHIL.
17-10-11, 18:39
Superb.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:39
Rotheram and Burnham were AMAZING!!!!! :scarf

Gervinhosbulbhead
17-10-11, 18:42
HERE HERE! well said Burnham

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 18:43
So proud to be a Liverpool Football Club fan and so proud of all who have contributed in any way to get to this day were the country hears the truth.

YNWA

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:45
So proud to be a Liverpool Football Club fan and so proud of all who have contributed in any way to get to this day were the country hears the truth.

YNWA

Me too!! SO so proud :)

JFT96

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:52
Rotheram really was a champion for mersyside :scarf

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:53
Bill shankly quote :FL:

Tom91k
17-10-11, 18:56
Bill shankly quote :FL:

Gave me chills that.

RedNets19
17-10-11, 18:56
McKenzie has finally been called into question! I hope that this is the beginning of the end for that piece of ****

-PRAETORIAN-
17-10-11, 18:56
Bit behind guys, is this on Tv right now????

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 18:57
That guy is even quoting Beatles lyrics :scarf

LordJamieOfCarragher
17-10-11, 18:57
Bit behind guys, is this on Tv right now????

504 through Sky

RedNets19
17-10-11, 18:57
Bit behind guys, is this on Tv right now????

Here's the link

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=9133

BVA
17-10-11, 18:58
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=9133

-PRAETORIAN-
17-10-11, 19:00
Thank you guys.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:01
That guy is even quoting Beatles lyrics :scarf

The beatles were prophetic :FL:

Tom91k
17-10-11, 19:05
Such a sad story that the mp told, then his brother died of a broken heart:(, and the tories are just sitting there like they don't give a *****.:mad:

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:07
That comment on the rogers family... and that comment where the dad was convinced his eldest son died from a broken heart (coz of his younger brother's death at hillsbrough - 6 months earlier)... was so sad :(

MignoLetItBe
17-10-11, 19:14
Rotheram's was perhaps one of the greatest, certainly one of the most heartfelt speeches the Commons has ever seen.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:15
Rotheram's was perhaps one of the greatest, certainly one of the most heartfelt speeches the Commons has ever seen.

Yes - it was so SO emotional :(

Seanieboy73
17-10-11, 19:16
reminds me of the ****** Sunday inquiry, in my home town of Derry



YNWA release the information

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 19:18
Full script of Steve Rotherams speech:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2011/10/17/hillsborough-debate-liverpool-mp-steve-rotheram-s-opening-speech-in-full-100252-29611412/

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:20
Full script of Steve Rotherams speech:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2011/10/17/hillsborough-debate-liverpool-mp-steve-rotheram-s-opening-speech-in-full-100252-29611412/

Brilliant!! :)

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:23
"The victims were turned into villains" :(

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 19:30
Therese Coffey speaking now was one of the very few Conservative MPs who signed the motion for Kenny's knighthood.

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 19:34
Great to hear an MP asking for evil chants at grounds to stop...

RedNets19
17-10-11, 19:36
Great to hear an MP asking for evil chants at grounds to stop...

My thoughts exactly! Great to hear and it'll be good if this can be implemented across the country!

paul143
17-10-11, 19:37
Great to hear an MP asking for evil chants at grounds to stop...

I agree - whatever the chants are and whomever they are aimed at.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:37
The sheffield people were amazing on the day too :)

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:38
Great to hear an MP asking for evil chants at grounds to stop...

:)

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:39
That sheffield MP is nearly in tears! :(

"96 people had died.... what else could you but cry" :(

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 19:39
Clive Betts MP for Sheffield South East (who was there on the day) giving a very moving speech. Important to remember that this tragedy effected many people in Sheffield. YNWA

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:42
Don't know how these MPs are keeping it together
I'm welling up here :(

LordJamieOfCarragher
17-10-11, 19:46
Don't know how these MPs are keeping it together
I'm welling up here :(

I've had to switch over about 4 times already.

LucasAintDancin
17-10-11, 19:47
Sorry guys but I've been out could anyone summarise how proceedings have went?

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 19:50
Lucas The Echo is running a blog which will give you a clear picture. A truly touching day.



http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/

LucasAintDancin
17-10-11, 19:52
Lucas The Echo is running a blog which will give you a clear picture. A truly touching day.



http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/

Appreciate it mate.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:52
Sorry guys but I've been out could anyone summarise how proceedings have went?

Try and read this thread from 5:40pm - it might give you lil bit of an idea

Rotheram/Burton were Amazing
I think the echo have scripted Rotheram's speech - check it out

It's too detailed to give you a summary - sorry :(

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 19:53
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/video/interview/9935-steve-rotheram-speech-in-full

CrawleyRed
17-10-11, 19:53
This is so difficult to listen to

JFT 96

LordJamieOfCarragher
17-10-11, 19:54
Another shocking story. :mad:

Belfast-Connect
17-10-11, 19:55
where the Tory press asked to denigrate the memory of the dead by publishing stories about fans urinating on the dead?

whiston88
17-10-11, 19:56
does anyone know when this finishes?

MignoLetItBe
17-10-11, 19:56
Esterson's story about the father makes me feel physically sick. I hope everyone of those scumbags responsible for that get what's coming to them.

:mad:

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:58
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=9133

This is a link to the video to watch it live

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 19:59
Another shocking story. :mad:


Esterson's story about the father makes me feel physically sick. I hope everyone of those scumbags responsible for that get what's coming to them.

:mad:

Disgraceful!!!

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 20:00
That MP - who is an experienced MP since 1979 - has said that this is one of the greatest debates he has seen in the house of commons

That's saying something

MignoLetItBe
17-10-11, 20:08
Who's that fat bloke dicking around behind Jarvis?

:mad:

bondred
17-10-11, 20:09
Can't believe there isn't a thread on this.

It is that important it needs to stay on the this forum as well.

LLS
17-10-11, 20:09
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/video/interview/9935-steve-rotheram-speech-in-full

Excellent work by .tv

lfcstlouis
17-10-11, 20:09
Can't believe there isn't a thread on this.

It is that important it needs to stay on the this forum as well.

Stickied up top mate.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 20:10
Who's that fat bloke dicking around behind Jarvis?

:mad:

:mad::AG:

Mountainman
17-10-11, 20:10
Finally. Hope this accelerates Justice.

bondred
17-10-11, 20:11
Stickied up top mate.

My bad

:(

Forum should be flooded with them

lfcstlouis
17-10-11, 20:14
My bad

:(

Forum should be flooded with them

Agreed, read the transcript of Rotherham's speech. Got a little chocked up. Really powerful stuff.

bondred
17-10-11, 20:15
I think Joey Barton deserves a massive round of applause when QPR visit Anfield in December.

Top bloke.

-PRAETORIAN-
17-10-11, 20:16
Very tough to watch :(

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 20:16
I think Joey Barton deserves a massive round of applause when QPR visit Anfield in December.

Top bloke.

From The Echo blog:

Our reporter Luke Traynor in the chamber confirmed that Joey Barton is there. Visibly shook his head when the story of Barry Devonside being asked on the Saturday night....

bondred
17-10-11, 20:16
Agreed, read the transcript of Rotherham's speech. Got a little chocked up. Really powerful stuff.

Just this second walked in from work, haven't had a chance to see/read anything yet.

lfcstlouis
17-10-11, 20:18
Just this second walked in from work, haven't had a chance to see/read anything yet.

Link to speech (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2011/10/17/hillsborough-debate-liverpool-mp-steve-rotherham-s-opening-speech-in-full-100252-29611412/)

My post should have read ' just read the speech'. But if you get the chance, take a read.

bondred
17-10-11, 20:19
Link to speech (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2011/10/17/hillsborough-debate-liverpool-mp-steve-rotherham-s-opening-speech-in-full-100252-29611412/)

My post should have read ' just read the speech'. But if you get the chance, take a read.


Nice one, cheers mate

LLS
17-10-11, 20:19
I think Joey Barton deserves a massive round of applause when QPR visit Anfield in December.

Top bloke.

I'm sure he will.

His role in the petition getting so many signatures in such a short space of time shouldn't be underestimated.

RogerHuntelaar
17-10-11, 20:20
Can anyone tell me how this works? Are they deciding on something tonight or will they let this drag on even longer?

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 20:20
Andy Burnham speech http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/video/interview/9936-andy-burnham-speech-in-full

Cymru.
17-10-11, 20:21
I am not a emotional person in the slightest, however this is really heartbreaking, and I've got a tear in my eye :(

CrawleyRed
17-10-11, 20:23
Can anyone tell me how this works? Are they deciding on something tonight or will they let this drag on even longer?

I'm actually not sure. This isn't really a debate, everyone seems to be agreeing with one another. Another first in the House of Commons.

-thispilgrim-
17-10-11, 20:24
Heartbreaking but very necessary debate.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 20:25
From The Echo blog:

Our reporter Luke Traynor in the chamber confirmed that Joey Barton is there. Visibly shook his head when the story of Barry Devonside being asked on the Saturday night....


I think Joey Barton deserves a massive round of applause when QPR visit Anfield in December.

Top bloke.

I totally agree with this!!
He has been fantastic supporting this all the way

He is a boyhood evertonian too
Just like Steve Rotheram and Andy Burton, who's speeches were AMAZING!!

RedNets19
17-10-11, 20:25
Standing is not to be brought back into the game. Right decision and exactly what Margaret Aspinall stated at the Hillsborough Memorial in April this year

bondred
17-10-11, 20:27
Can anyone tell me how this works? Are they deciding on something tonight or will they let this drag on even longer?

It's been decided, all 40,000 files are to released.

RogerHuntelaar
17-10-11, 20:28
I'm actually not sure. This isn't really a debate, everyone seems to be agreeing with one another. Another first in the House of Commons.

Thanks, I know absolutely nothing about English politics, so this is all pretty confusing.

JFT96

RogerHuntelaar
17-10-11, 20:29
It's been decided, all 40,000 files are to released.

Really? When?

bondred
17-10-11, 20:31
Thanks, I know absolutely nothing about English politics, so this is all pretty confusing.

JFT96

They are putting their points across on what and why certain files should be released. Teresa may who is the home secretary has said she will not stand in the way and make sure all 40,000 files get released.

Other people want certain sections namely the police and news international, to release their statements and sources.

LucasAintDancin
17-10-11, 20:31
Like stroot I know little about Englis politics. Is the wait for justice edging ever closer folliwing this release? This could be absolutely massive like?

bondred
17-10-11, 20:34
Like stroot I know little about Englis politics. Is the wait for justice edging ever closer folliwing this release? This could be absolutely massive like?

From what I understand all the files have been cleared for release to a panel, the panel and the families will decide what gets redacted from the public view.

Teresa May has made some strong promises and has to follow them through.

LLS
17-10-11, 20:35
Theresa May (Home Secretary for our foreign posters) said that the Government are going to release ALL cabinet papers regarding the disaster to the Hillsborough Independent Panel.

The only things that will be redacted are personal details such as addresses and phone numbers, and also of very personal/medical details about the individuals that died that day.

The Hillsborough Independent Panel is as close to beyond repute as you can get, so now it is a case of waiting for them to review all information and documents available and then reporting everything together, possibly around Spring-time next year.

This is my understanding of things so far.

I think all these MP statements now (its complete consensus) is sort of an attempt to wipe out misconceptions about Hillsborough that are still around.

There is also a small push for media outlets, such as The S*n, to reveal who exactly briefed them with those disgusting, disgusting stories.

I think this should be our next battle; to get these papers and broadcasters to tell the Hillsborough Independent Panel who exactly told them these lies.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 20:36
From what I understand all the files have been cleared for release to a panel, the panel and the families will decide what gets redacted from the public view.

Teresa May has made some strong promises and has to follow them through.

This is the main thing that these MPs are emphasising
They don't want things to be hidden, for the governments needs

The tributes made by the MPs have been very VERY moving

-thispilgrim-
17-10-11, 20:36
After all the cover ups and setbacks the tide is turning for the family's of the 96.

Em-inLeam
17-10-11, 20:37
Labour done a great job for justice. a big thank you to those speakers.

RogerHuntelaar
17-10-11, 20:37
From what I understand all the files have been cleared for release to a panel, the panel and the families will decide what gets redacted from the public view.

Teresa May has made some strong promises and has to follow them through.

Alright that sounds promising, thanks mate.

bondred
17-10-11, 20:39
This is the main thing that these MPs are emphasising
They don't want things to be hidden, for the governments needs

The tributes made by the MPs have been very VERY moving

Teresa may said the will be all released with no redaction, if the panel and families decide some stuff should be redacted from the public, then who are we to argue?

LLS
17-10-11, 20:40
This article in The Guardian has just been retweeted on twitter. Its about The S*n's sources.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2011/oct/17/sun-hillsborough-disaster

Cymru.
17-10-11, 20:42
When he called out the names it really hit me. So many innocent souls :(

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 20:44
When he called out the names it really hit me. So many innocent souls :(

Reading out the 96 names means every one goes down in parliamentary history, every word spoken in the house is recorded in the minutes and kept on public file.

-Monk-
17-10-11, 20:45
God this was all very upsetting :(

LLS
17-10-11, 20:50
No-one watching right now can have dry eyes.

bondred
17-10-11, 20:51
No-one watching right now can have dry eyes.

Bless her

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 20:52
Ynwa

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 20:53
Bless her

Can't believe that she is the first MP in proper tears :(
Altho the south-east sheffield MP was nearly there

paul143
17-10-11, 20:53
Can anyone tell me how this works? Are they deciding on something tonight or will they let this drag on even longer?

Possible that Rosie Cooper has hinted the purpose of the debate? "Full disclosure" (minus any redactions from the independent committee) to the public.

MignoLetItBe
17-10-11, 20:54
Alison McGovern... YNWA

Trying not to cry if only to continue her speech for justice.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 20:54
She quotes Alan Hansen - "The number of broken hearts were incalculable" :(

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 20:56
Alison McGovern, speaking now, granddad was Pete McGovern who wrote 'In My Liverpool Home'

Showing true emotion.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 20:57
It's getting too much... :(

bondred
17-10-11, 20:58
Fantastic speech from Alison

:clap:

JaneWarby
17-10-11, 20:59
Alison McGovern - she wears her heart on her sleeve.

What a heartfelt speach.

YNWA

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 21:02
Poor Alison!!
....But what a wonderful speech

smokintony
17-10-11, 21:02
Bless her

That must have been hard to keep composed during that speech

LucasAintDancin
17-10-11, 21:02
Just finished watching Burnham and Rotherhams speech. Truly moving stuff. The power of human emotion never ceases to stun me.

Cumbrian.
17-10-11, 21:03
I've just got in from work. Does anyone know if this will be available on iplayer soon?

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 21:04
Love that north east accent...! :D

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 21:04
I've just got in from work. Does anyone know if this will be available on iplayer soon?

It will be on archive at parliamentlive.tv

MignoLetItBe
17-10-11, 21:05
I've just got in from work. Does anyone know if this will be available on iplayer soon?

No, but you can watch it live here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/tv/bbc_parliament/watchlive

smokintony
17-10-11, 21:05
I've just got in from work. Does anyone know if this will be available on iplayer soon?

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=9133

Theres a "watch from start" tab on this page, watching the live feed so dont know if it works

sloveniankopite
17-10-11, 21:07
That was truly eye-watering. Absolutely wonderful. Shame that I missed Rotheram's and Burnham's speeches live, I'll watch them later when the debate ends, but I've read Rotheram's speech transscript on the Liv Echo website and it was fantastic, one of the most powerful I've ever read.

May I say well done to everyone involved, I may not be up there right now physically speaking, but I'm there in spirit.

YNWA
JFT96

Chickenliver
17-10-11, 21:07
Will i be able to re-watch all that happened this evening on BBCi Player? I'm not at home and have missed the evenings debates :(

I'm not even sure those commons debates are repeated, i hope they are.

YNWA JFT96, Made up the papers are going to be released finally to the panel :scarf

Cumbrian.
17-10-11, 21:08
Thanks

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 21:08
Will i be able to re-watch all that happened this evening on BBCi Player? I'm not at home and have missed the evenings debates :(

I'm not even sure those commons debates are repeated, i hope they are.

YNWA JFT96, Made up the papers are going to be released finally to the panel :scarf

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Live.aspx (there is archive as well)

smokintony
17-10-11, 21:08
Will i be able to re-watch all that happened this evening on BBCi Player? I'm not at home and have missed the evenings debates :(

I'm not even sure those commons debates are repeated, i hope they are.

YNWA JFT96, Made up the papers are going to be released finally to the panel :scarf

Have you tried the tab on the link ive just posted?

BVA
17-10-11, 21:09
Will i be able to re-watch all that happened this evening on BBCi Player? I'm not at home and have missed the evenings debates :(

I'm not even sure those commons debates are repeated, i hope they are.

YNWA JFT96, Made up the papers are going to be released finally to the panel :scarf

if I remember from my student days, All parliamentary transcripts are kept in an online library probably be able to get it in a couple of days. be on the governments .gov site

Farontaur
17-10-11, 21:10
Just raw, raw emotion.

Devastatingly sad scenes tonight, but Justice is growing ever closer and it may at least bring a degree of peace of mind to all those affected.

Justice, for the 96.

LucasAintDancin
17-10-11, 21:11
I've just got in from work. Does anyone know if this will be available on iplayer soon?

Indiviudual speeches can be accesed from lfc.tv.

LLS
17-10-11, 21:14
Indiviudual speeches can be accesed from lfc.tv.

More will be posted on .tv tomorrow, including Alison Mcgovern according to twitter.

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 21:16
The media coverage of this evenings events will be be very telling tomorrow, and I hope with all my heart that football fans across the country and beyond now understand the fight for justice.

JFT96 YNWA

Cumbrian.
17-10-11, 21:17
Indiviudual speeches can be accesed from lfc.tv.

Nice one, thank you.

bondred
17-10-11, 21:17
http://twitter.com/Alison_McGovern

Chickenliver
17-10-11, 21:21
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Live.aspx (there is archive as well)


Have you tried the tab on the link ive just posted?

Thank you all :scarf

Chickenliver
17-10-11, 21:21
if I remember from my student days, All parliamentary transcripts are kept in an online library probably be able to get it in a couple of days. be on the governments .gov site

Thank you too :scarf

Starblind
17-10-11, 21:24
http://twitter.com/Alison_McGovern

Lots of messages of thanks and support heading her way I see :) She was amazing.

bondred
17-10-11, 21:28
Lots of messages of thanks and support heading her way I see :) She was amazing.

Yup, I already tweeted my thanks to her.


alison.mcgovern.mp@parliament.uk

alison@alisonmcgovern.org.uk

Emails if anyone wants to send her anything.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 21:29
It must be so hard for sheff wednesday fans, who's beloved hillsborough stadium, is synonamous around the world, for this terrible disaster :(

Em-inLeam
17-10-11, 21:31
That Labour bench is still the most filled bench in that room.

When do we find out the outcome? Will they decide tonight?

smokintony
17-10-11, 21:32
Yup, I already tweeted my thanks to her.


alison.mcgovern.mp@parliament.uk

alison@alisonmcgovern.org.uk

Emails if anyone wants to send her anything.

Thanks, dont have a twitter account, will be sending them my thanks

Em-inLeam
17-10-11, 21:32
It must be so hard for sheff wednesday fans, who's beloved hillsborough stadium, is synonamous around the world, for this terrible disaster :(

True. They should have perhaps renamed it or turned it into a memorial and built a new stadium elsewhere. Difficult for all parties though.

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 21:34
The s** getting more stick!!!!!! YNWA

Hope the country is listening.

LLS
17-10-11, 21:36
My 10,000th post; dedicated to the 96, their families, and all others effected by the tragedy and the injustices that followed.

Hopefully today is the day the tide finally turned.

YNWA.

smokintony
17-10-11, 21:37
The s** getting more stick!!!!!! YNWA

Hope the country is listening.

Its good to see that rag getting the stick it deserves, hope many people that don't know about the lies they printed are watching or get to hear about it

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 21:38
My 10,000th post; dedicated to the 96, their families, and all others effected by the tragedy and the injustices that followed.

Hopefully today is the day the tide finally turned.

YNWA.

Well said.

RogerHuntelaar
17-10-11, 21:38
Its good to see that rag getting the stick it deserves, hope many people that don't know about the lies they printed are watching or get to hear about it

Yeah

-Monk-
17-10-11, 21:41
Fantastic Forest fans/MPs.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 21:42
That guy was fantanstic!!

Top of the kop
17-10-11, 21:43
some great speeches

bondred
17-10-11, 21:44
It's trending all over twitter, alot of people commenting on it, Rio Ferdinand, Piers Morgan, Joey Barton, loads of MP's.

Going to be very very interesting to see what the papers and news programs go with.

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 21:45
Fantastic Forest fans/MPs.

That was so touching

Those families in particular must've felt so alone, with all that happened in the aftermath of hillsborough
No one believed the victims and all that happened

This comments, and the other comments in this debate, must give them so much comfort

YNWA
JFT96

SweetSilverSeven
17-10-11, 21:46
It's trending all over twitter, alot of people commenting on it, Rio Ferdinand, Piers Morgan, Joey Barton, loads of MP's.

Going to be very very interesting to see what the papers and news programs go with.

Today has truly been amazing

bondred
17-10-11, 21:46
Dave Watts giving Mckenzie a proper pasting.

Well in lad

******* scum

LiverpoolOne
17-10-11, 21:47
McKenzie should be castigated by anyone and everyone connected with the media and go hang his head in shame.

Liddelwomen
17-10-11, 21:47
Steve Rotheram speech brought tears to my eyes. Fantastic.

LordJamieOfCarragher
17-10-11, 21:47
Dave Watts, St Helens North MP having a go at McKenzie. :scarf

LLS
17-10-11, 21:47
It's trending all over twitter, alot of people commenting on it, Rio Ferdinand, Piers Morgan, Joey Barton, loads of MP's.

Going to be very very interesting to see what the papers and news programs go with.

I think the foundations are there for a massive statement from all of the papers when the Hillsborough Independent Panel finally reports.

I'm sure people like The Mirror will run "The Real Truth" or something along those lines for example.