View Full Version : E-Season out of hours Feedback
One issue which has emerged from the questionaire (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=60276) topic is that e-season users wishing to leave feedback are hampered by the restricted hours of the Website Feedback board.
As a temporary solution I've created this thread. It will be stickied in the Off Topic section and you can leave feedback in here when the Feedback board is locked.
You can help me by keeping any comments on this topic to genuine feedback and issues.
Thanks,
Matt
I'll also use this topic to help keep you informed concerning other topics I've started:
Forum Guidelines (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=68244)- A list of existing and new guidelines for user conduct.
Forum Questionaire (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=60276)
What is a Community Manager? (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=59844)
Missing / Deleted Posts and Threads (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=63173) Update on there whereabouts, a way of retrieving at least some valued posts and the way forward for an issue which has badly affected this forum.
Where I'm Coming From (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=62706) An attempt to sketch out what you can expect from me, with apologies to Raymond Carver. Followed by a few of the proposed changes to the operation of the boards.
This Forum and Censorship (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=63783) A note concerning freedom of speech and these message boards.
Before you click New Thread, read this (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=65442) - some users are starting too many poor threads
On Quoting (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=68234) - Please don't unnecesarily requote large posts.
thanks mate for a response
however this is not a new issue
Personally, as the paying customer surely it is resonable to expect a timeline of when action should result provide benefit. We have had many closures with little improvement already. What actions are you considering taking if the latest upgrade doesnt work .
Regards Mustgotorome :)
I'm aware that these frustrations aren't new.
It's certainly reasonable for you to expect improvements. As I've stated above, I'm not a technical guy, any improvements will take time and therefore I can't give you a timetable. Indeed at the moment all I can give you is words and many of you it seems may understandably be fed up of words rather than actions.
Nevertheless, I'd ask you to judge me on results and to allow a reasonable amount of time for me to deliver them. Today marks my first week in the job and there's a lot of new systems I've had to learn/people to meet etc. I've also had to spend some time on the forums trying to establish what people are happy/unhappy about.
In the absence of immediate tangible results I'll try and keep you as informed as possible of what I'm doing. In terms of the actions being taken I'm compiling a wishlist which will address the full range of solutions from enabling tweaks in the forum software to asking for new hardware / capacity to cope with demand. I'll basically be putting the case forward that the users of these forums deserve better performance. Speed of access is number one on the list.
As for a timeline, I've sketched out an initial plan for 3 months. I can't go into all of that now, more will emerge, but if all goes well you should be getting a substantial improvement in your use of this site by then. That's not to say you won't see improvements before then because you certainly should. The 3 months was simply the time I set for a wholesale improvement in your experience.
Bad news on the missing posts I'm afraid. They've perished in a pruning of the site which took place on Monday night. :(
I guess now we know how the Ancient World felt when they heard of the burning of the library at Alexandria. Even the catastrophic loss of half the works of Sophocles pales into insignificance compared to the wanton destruction of Garcia's Bar or the elegant prose of 'FAO: All Users'
I guess the only thing to be done is to rebuild. A stronger, better forum. A fitting place to remember what we have lost. A fortress of quality.
The only thing that truly annoys me is the slow down to crawling speed usually during /after matches and other various times. I realise this has been mentioned above but i thought i'd add my discontent ;). Look forward to this being cleared up some time in the future.
Speed of forum access is being addressed.:)
Thanks for producing this thread - the feedback forum is only open in the middle of the night for me!
In the last few days I have found that the forum freezes when I try to click on a link - I can use my computer outside this webpage, favorites etc all work whilst the forum is frozen - but I have to ctrl alt del to get out and close the page and keep coming back in to be able to move within the forum again.
As it isn't a problem on anything else, is there a chance there is a problem your end rather than mine?
Would appreciate advice before I get into asking Microsoft and they give me 2 pages of dense text in reply!
Thanks.
Thanks for producing this thread - the feedback forum is only open in the middle of the night for me!
In the last few days I have found that the forum freezes when I try to click on a link - I can use my computer outside this webpage, favorites etc all work whilst the forum is frozen - but I have to ctrl alt del to get out and close the page and keep coming back in to be able to move within the forum again.
As it isn't a problem on anything else, is there a chance there is a problem your end rather than mine?
Would appreciate advice before I get into asking Microsoft and they give me 2 pages of dense text in reply!
Thanks.
Is it only in this forum that you have the problem?
LordJamieOfCarragher
4-10-08, 22:04
Is it only in this forum that you have the problem?
Flippin heck, you're up late!! ;)
Is it only in this forum that you have the problem?
Hi Matt
Its only in the LFC Forums - OT and FF.
Please not a virus!!
Thanks.
Liverdinner
4-10-08, 22:39
matt why can you not post youtube links please?
LJ, I've a cold so am stuck in on a busmans holiday :(
Hi Matt
Its only in the LFC Forums - OT and FF.
Please not a virus!!
Thanks.
Bit weird. Have you tried deleting cookies?
matt why can you not post youtube links please?
Mostly due to copyright issues but also related to concerns about user safety. We are looking at all this at the moment.
Liverdinner
4-10-08, 22:54
LJ, I've a cold so am stuck in on a busmans holiday :(
Bit weird. Have you tried deleting cookies?
Mostly due to copyright issues but also related to concerns about user safety. We are looking at all this at the moment.
jolly good my phoenix from the flames links do no harm
LordJamieOfCarragher
4-10-08, 22:55
LJ, I've a cold so am stuck in on a busmans holiday :(
A lot of it about at the moment.
The other half has one so I should get one around Tues/Weds! :(
Bit weird. Have you tried deleting cookies?
Thanks. I did recently start using my Telecom landline e-mail which goes through Yahoo here, and I did have to disable Cookies blocking I think.
It takes a technical brain to work out they might be connected. I'll investigate. Cheers.
Hope you are feeling better. :)
Matt,
I have some whickedsound with footage that involves our team.
When can I post it?
Re links and freezing: is it all links, including forum navigation, or just links within posts?
BadgersAnonymous
5-10-08, 22:49
It seems that pun threads, which often inject a little football related fun in to otherwise and often bickering, negative threads, are now banned. Can you confirm that this is the case? An explanation would be a bonus, if they are now such a heinous crime :cool:
LaBamba-Benitez
5-10-08, 22:52
i second that :confused::confused::confused:
I don't get why Rafaout's thread was closed.....
BadgersAnonymous
5-10-08, 22:52
or alternatively, you could just delete this thread with no response, that seems to work quite well
Re links and freezing: is it all links, including forum navigation, or just links within posts?
Hi TP - just saw this - it is just links within posts. Everything else is normal.
Cheers for helping.
Hi Matt
Another query - if I can type fast before closing...
I don't know how much scope you have, but would it be possible to put a reason why a post is closed or deleted, and where a post is moved to, when the mods intervene and they write a quick note on it. Not a flippant one, but a reason which might stop people doing the same thing. I mean in the little box where they say 'thread deleted' or 'moved'. It might help people because sometimes a 'move' is a merge, sometimes it goes to OT.
Perhaps when they close a thread mods can write the last post saying why they are closing it?
Hope it makes sense.
I don't get why Rafaout's thread was closed.....
:fishing thats why
It seems that pun threads, which often inject a little football related fun in to otherwise and often bickering, negative threads, are now banned. Can you confirm that this is the case? An explanation would be a bonus, if they are now such a heinous crime :cool:
There's no specific ban for pun threads. Obviously if they begin to test the boundaries of good taste/legality etc. they may get deleted. If they're non football related they'll move over here.
There's no specific ban for pun threads. Obviously if they begin to test the boundaries of good taste/legality etc. they may get deleted. If they're non football related they'll move over here.
how's your man flu, matt? :D
Hi Matt
Another query - if I can type fast before closing...
I don't know how much scope you have, but would it be possible to put a reason why a post is closed or deleted, and where a post is moved to, when the mods intervene and they write a quick note on it. Not a flippant one, but a reason which might stop people doing the same thing. I mean in the little box where they say 'thread deleted' or 'moved'. It might help people because sometimes a 'move' is a merge, sometimes it goes to OT.
Perhaps when they close a thread mods can write the last post saying why they are closing it?
Hope it makes sense.
That does make sense and it's something we should aim to do. At the moment if a thread is hard deleted there's nowhere to place a marker which explains why its gone. We're going to try to change the way the forum's setup to allow this to occur.
I'll also ask the mods to try where possible to give a reason. It's not always going to happen though because at busy times there's just too many posts for them to do this.
Finally I'm extending the guidelines to try and give people more explicit guidance as to what is and isn't acceptable. That's also a debate which I'd like the forum members to partipate in.
how's your man flu, matt? :D
Mysteriously it vanished yesterday afternoon, allowing me to go to the pub and offer smirk ridden consolations to our City supporting friend. Then it resurfaced in time for the working week.:( I'm currently nursing a cup of herbal tea and thinking about heading out for Lemsip at lunchtime:crying Somehow though I'm hoping to soldier on till the end of the day.
That does make sense and it's something we should aim to do. At the moment if a thread is hard deleted there's nowhere to place a marker which explains why its gone. We're going to try to change the way the forum's setup to allow this to occur.
I'll also ask the mods to try where possible to give a reason. It's not always going to happen though because at busy times there's just too many posts for them to do this.
Finally I'm extending the guidelines to try and give people more explicit guidance as to what is and isn't acceptable. That's also a debate which I'd like the forum members to partipate in.
Cheers!
Mysteriously it vanished yesterday afternoon, allowing me to go to the pub and offer smirk ridden consolations to our City supporting friend. Then it resurfaced in time for the working week.:( I'm currently nursing a cup of herbal tea and thinking about heading out for Lemsip at lunchtime:crying Somehow though I'm hoping to soldier on till the end of the day.
That's not the flu you've got - that's Skive-a-litis. ;)
Hi Matt and TP
I did go to the Cookies and add LFC to the list of 'always allow...' (though I hadn't changed it to start with...?), I also switched off the whole thing and started it up again (I usually keep the forums open 24/7), and it is now connecting to links without a problem.
So, thanks for the advice, something worked!
Finally I'm extending the guidelines to try and give people more explicit guidance as to what is and isn't acceptable. That's also a debate which I'd like the forum members to partipate in.
Where might we do this please?
[QUOTE=Matt-CM;1202460]
I'll also ask the mods to try where possible to give a reason. It's not always going to happen though because at busy times there's just too many posts for them to do this.
QUOTE]
Thanks for the explanation for the closure of the non-sourced (ManU/Liv buyout) post today. It does help understanding.
Just to add - the O/T front page looks much better with the games removed.
Where might we do this please?
This thread is a good starting point. I try and check it often.
Here's the existing Guidelines (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=68244), tell me what you think and remember you can always contact me via the communitymanager(@)liverpoolfc.tv thread if you prefer.
[QUOTE=Matt-CM;1202460]
Just to add - the O/T front page looks much better with the games removed.
Thanks. I know that O/T is a bit crowded at the moment with the games threads and all the other OT stuff on one page. We'll make some changes to the forum structure at some point and perhaps create an extra board so that there's room for everyone. Bear with us for a little while.
Just to add - the O/T front page looks much better with the games removed.
It was good while it lasted :)
This thread is a good starting point. I try and check it often.
Here's the existing Guidelines (http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=68244), tell me what you think and remember you can always contact me via the communitymanager(@)liverpoolfc.tv thread if you prefer.
cheers Matt. Sorry for the delay in replying, I'm in a far off country with limited access to the 'net
3. Discussions that encourage, promote or provide information about illegal or criminal activities (including pornography, explosives, weapons, drugs, programming viruses, computer hacking and copyright infringement);
Seriously? I can understand that being additional to illegal or criminal activity, but let's not pretend it's included under that umbrella, eh?
6. Exchange of user telephone numbers, emails or home addresses;
Ditch that one
2. Deletion of Duplicate/Poor Threads. Check before starting a new topic. There are far too many threads discussing the same thing. If you have a news item to post check for an existing topic it could sit within. Each new thread pushes someone elses off the page, so unless you have a good reason to start a new one, don't.
Duplicate / Poor quality threads will be merged or deleted
Can you define "poor quality"? By whose standards will this be judged?
Do all mods have the same idea of what is "poor"?
Seriously? I can understand that being additional to illegal or criminal activity, but let's not pretend it's included under that umbrella, eh?
Does it matter whether it has its own rule or is included alongside others? We're talking about website guidelines not a philosophical treatise after all.
Ditch that one
It's not that simple unfortunately. The restriction is there because we have younger users that may unintentionally put themselves at risk.
I know that many are in touch in any case. That other forums allow pm's and email addresses to be displayed and exchanged openly. The difference is that the club has a duty of care to its users and that's what's motivated the current policy.
I am working very hard on putting a system in place that will allow far greater openness, personal messaging etc. I'd love to have done that on day one but there's a lot of background work that has to take place before it can happen.
Can you define "poor quality"? By whose standards will this be judged?
My standards.:P For now take 'poor' to mean 1 or 2 line attention grabbing trolling which ignores existing discussions on the same page in favour of grabbing the spotlight with a new thread.
Do all mods have the same idea of what is "poor"?
In any system run by humans there won't be complete consistency. At some point you have to accept that people will use their judgement as best they can.
Seriously, the last 4 rules are a response to some perceived shortcomings in the forum. They'll evolve over time and hopefully users will put forward their own opinions and suggestions which will help to give everyone a sense of involvement in the forum.
I'll start a dedicated thread on the guidelines soon. For now any further input is welcome.
Just to add - the O/T front page looks much better with the games removed.
It was good while it lasted :)
:eek:
How did they all get back? Puts me right off.
Does it matter whether it has its own rule or is included alongside others? We're talking about website guidelines not a philosophical treatise after all.
Personally speaking, yes. I can see the problem with anything related to pornography on this forum. However, there is nothing wrong with pornography per se, the rule as it stands intimates that pornography is illegal. I see no logic in that - how can I respect your rules if even a single one defies logic?
It matters nought, but offended my sensibilities. Forgive me.
It's not that simple unfortunately. The restriction is there because we have younger users that may unintentionally put themselves at risk.
I know that many are in touch in any case. That other forums allow pm's and email addresses to be displayed and exchanged openly. The difference is that the club has a duty of care to its users and that's what's motivated the current policy.
Hmm, I think you and I have had the "internet police" chat before :D
But, seriously, I think that's weak. If I want to communicate with somebody from here I should be able to let them know how to contact me. I don't use other forums, no other way. Are you seriously suggesting you can't treat me like an adult just because of some supposed threat to some alleged children that may happen to possibly use these boards and potentially, with a bit of bad luck, come to the attention of a supposed paedophile?
I am working very hard on putting a system in place that will allow far greater openness, personal messaging etc. I'd love to have done that on day one but there's a lot of background work that has to take place before it can happen.
um, okay. Ignore the above :D
My standards.:P For now take 'poor' to mean 1 or 2 line attention grabbing trolling which ignores existing discussions on the same page in favour of grabbing the spotlight with a new thread.
You don't get it. You cannot use generic desciptors in your "rules" - it needs to be clear. You've put your definition above, fine. But to a new member who has not seen this thread it could mean anything,
In any system run by humans there won't be complete consistency. At some point you have to accept that people will use their judgement as best they can.
Of course, but wooly rules will help neither members nor mods
Seriously, the last 4 rules are a response to some perceived shortcomings in the forum. They'll evolve over time and hopefully users will put forward their own opinions and suggestions which will help to give everyone a sense of involvement in the forum.
I'll start a dedicated thread on the guidelines soon. For now any further input is welcome.
Percieved by whom? Over what period of time?
You came in here and made promises - not all of which were welcome to me personally, but I'm prepared to take the rough with smooth - I had a bit of respect for you for that. And now it's all very woolly (in the conventional use not a St Helens type use) I think Higgy may be right about you
You came in here and made promises - not all of which were welcome to me personally, but I'm prepared to take the rough with smooth - I had a bit of respect for you for that. And now it's all very woolly (in the conventional use not a St Helens type use) I think Higgy may be right about you
I bet when Matt applied for the job he didn't think his every action would be forensically dissected by a legal brain.
Ease up will you. :)
I bet when Matt applied for the job he didn't think his every action would be forensically dissected by a legal brain.
Ease up will you. :)
I'll start a dedicated thread on the guidelines soon. For now any further input is welcome.
:)
RotationPolicy
20-10-08, 09:43
Firstly, when I came on here just before the match on Saturday, I was looking as I usually do for the thread someone always starts that is our team. But I found that it had been merged with the one Match thread which annoyed me because clicking on the link where it took me to the match thread it didn't re-direct me to the post of the official team but rather the O/P of the thread made by Matt.
I think a big criticism of RAWK is that there is one thread for everything and we certainly don't want this place turning out like RAWK do we?
Obviously having 100 threads for one thing is ridiculous but do we really need to have every issue/topic in the one thread?
TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
20-10-08, 09:45
I think a big criticism of RAWK is that there is one thread for everything and we certainly don't want this place turning out like RAWK do we?
That's exactly what he wants.
waittillmay
20-10-08, 09:45
Firstly, when I came on here just before the match on Saturday, I was looking as I usually do for the thread someone always starts that is our team.
I think a big criticism of RAWK is that there is one thread for everything and we certainly don't want this place turning out like RAWK do we?
You could have clicked the homepage, would have been faster :confused:
One match thread is enough for all the goal! geeeeerrrrad etc. morons.
TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
20-10-08, 09:46
geeeeerrrrad .
:D
RotationPolicy
20-10-08, 09:47
You could have clicked the homepage, would have been faster :confused:
My computer is slow and the splash thing takes a while to load.
waittillmay
20-10-08, 09:48
My computer is slow and the splash thing takes a while to load.
I agree, the forums software is fast and efficient. Why not the BBC then, that's lightweight. I feel you are moaning for no real reason.
RotationPolicy
20-10-08, 09:49
I agree, the forums software is fast and efficient. Why not the BBC then, that's lightweight. I feel you are moaning for no real reason.
Fair enough but I'd hardly call it moaning.
Fast and efficient?? These forums are not fast and efficient on match days, barely functional would more appropriate.
waittillmay
20-10-08, 09:54
Fast and efficient?? These forums are not fast and efficient on match days, barely functional would more appropriate.
:tumbleweed
here it comes........
.........WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH
:tumbleweed
here it comes........
.........WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH
Oops
Was attempting to multi task and didn't see it was you who posted it.
For shame :o
Firstly, when I came on here just before the match on Saturday, I was looking as I usually do for the thread someone always starts that is our team. But I found that it had been merged with the one Match thread which annoyed me because clicking on the link where it took me to the match thread it didn't re-direct me to the post of the official team but rather the O/P of the thread made by Matt.
I think a big criticism of RAWK is that there is one thread for everything and we certainly don't want this place turning out like RAWK do we?
Obviously having 100 threads for one thing is ridiculous but do we really need to have every issue/topic in the one thread?
If there's a decent angle on an upcoming match then it can easily have a thread of its own. What got merged into the general thread was mostly repetitive 1 line threads which didn't really go anywhere. Having said that I wasn't online on Saturday so I can't answer for the thread you're talking about. I'm happy to see a thread just for the lineup when announced if that's what people want?
In reference to Rawk. I think I've already explained that I'm not seeking to recreate that site here. That said, there's elements of Rawk which work really well which I'd like to see more of here, original articles, match reports, less identical topics etc. So I'm not going to reject an improvement to this site just because it might remind some of you of Rawk.
Fast and efficient?? These forums are not fast and efficient on match days, barely functional would more appropriate.
At present the forums sit on the same server as the site, this means that they suffer from the increased load at match times. We're going to move them onto a dedicated server which will hopefully significantly improve performance at these times. It's likely there'll still be some slowdown because they're busy forums but it should be a big improvement on the status quo.
Can I ask you to start future threads like this in the OT section rather than Football? Thanks.
Matt
Euro-77-78-81-84-05
20-10-08, 10:42
Fancy putting the starting line up in the match topic. What's who's starting got to do with the match.
It's like when there was a goal in the game, someone started a topic and it got put into the match topic.
What has someone scoring a goal got to do with the match :confused::rolleyes:;)
we certainly don't want this place turning out like RAWK do we?
What, you mean endless irrritating signatures everywhere and lots of cursing?
It's already begun. You can say Scunthorpe (and any word contained therein) without it getting starred out. As soon as they introduce signatures and an avatar with space to include even more meaningless crap, i'm off
What, you mean endless irrritating signatures everywhere and lots of cursing?
It's already begun. You can say Scunthorpe (and any word contained therein) without it getting starred out. As soon as they introduce signatures and an avatar with space to include even more meaningless crap, i'm off
I agree with every word of this.
What, you mean endless irrritating signatures everywhere and lots of cursing?
It's already begun. You can say Scunthorpe (and any word contained therein) without it getting starred out. As soon as they introduce signatures and an avatar with space to include even more meaningless crap, i'm off
Spot on, it will be a horrible forum to attempt to read.
What, you mean endless irrritating signatures everywhere and lots of cursing?
It's already begun. You can say Scunthorpe (and any word contained therein) without it getting starred out. As soon as they introduce signatures and an avatar with space to include even more meaningless crap, i'm off
The word censor was recently altered. That's what enables you to write Scunthorpe but not the word within.
Avatars may be introduced as there's lots of users that do want them, we'll try do so in such a way that those who don't want to view them can disable them.
As for signatures - no plans at present to introduce these.
If you have further feedback or suggestions you can contact me using the form at the bottom of the screen or via email: communitymanager at liverpoolfc.tv. There's also a feedback thread which I'll merge this too shortly.
Avatars may be introduced as there's lots of users that do want them, we'll try do so in such a way that those who don't want to view them can disable them.
As for signatures - no plans at present to introduce these.
Avatars & Signatures do nothing for a forum, I and many others are only interested in the text that is written not some pathetic spinning liverpool icon on the side of the post. These will cause peoples posts to be ridiculous sizes so posts will be reduced on each page.
Disable option would be great then the under 18's can have fun playing with their childish avatars.
-MissBrightside82-
21-10-08, 11:23
The word censor was recently altered. That's what enables you to write Scunthorpe but not the word within.
"thorpe"?
"thorpe"?
At the request of a few older Liberal voters :)
Let me tell a little tale: in recent weeks just about everybody at the club has had to undergo CRB checks -- to make sure we're fit to be in contact with young people. I was checked as I have a role on forums; my web designer was checked because he might one day be asked to take photographs at the Academy. Overkill, you might think, but laws and safe practice do dictate much of what we can and cannot do. As with many of these things, the noose is tight at first but can often, over time, be loosened -- which is one of the things Matt is working towards. Sadly, this can't happen overnight, or even in a month or two. Some of the preparatory steps can be taken earlier but their purpose might not be clear at first.
In reference to Rawk. I think I've already explained that I'm not seeking to recreate that site here.
I think we have reason to doubt your sincerity
That said, there's elements of Rawk which work really well which I'd like to see more of here,
Things which YOU think work really well and YOU would like to see here?
original articles, match reports, less identical topics etc. So I'm not going to reject an improvement to this site just because it might remind some of you of Rawk.
this is entirely the point, whilst the things you mention sound quite positive, what about other things - if you decide they would be an improvement they are implemented? What if you are in a minority of one?
Feel free to ignore me, as per your norm
this is entirely the point, whilst the things you mention sound quite positive, what about other things - if you decide they would be an improvement they are implemented? What if you are in a minority of one?
Matt was employed to do a job that we decided needed doing and was given strong instructions as to what he was to achieve.
Since starting he has discussed and researched, he has spoken to many people, me included, forums users included, and then produced documented proposals which were debated by about half a dozen of us, including three members of the management team (again including me).
There is nothing whimsical or autocratic about Matt's actions.
Matt was employed to do a job that we decided needed doing and was given strong instructions as to what he was to achieve.
Since starting he has discussed and researched, he has spoken to many people, me included, forums users included, and then produced documented proposals which were debated by about half a dozen of us, including three members of the management team (again including me).
There is nothing whimsical or autocratic about Matt's actions.
he seems to have sytematically ignored all views that don't fit with his (and, I guess, yours)
Why don't our opinions matter? We pay you to provide a service the way in which you do that is up to you. However, to pretend to consult with us when in fact your just paying lip service is, quite frankly, insulting.
TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
21-10-08, 15:20
Matt was employed to do a job that we decided needed doing and was given strong instructions as to what he was to achieve.
Since starting he has discussed and researched, he has spoken to many people, me included, forums users included, and then produced documented proposals which were debated by about half a dozen of us, including three members of the management team (again including me).
There is nothing whimsical or autocratic about Matt's actions.
That's fine, and i won't get personal here (for fear of long term ban! :crying), but what many of us can't understand is what was wrong with the forums before matt arrived?
Other than some duplicate threads, some discontent at permanent rafa bashers, and issues with the search mechanism, i can't remember there being a clamour for change.
Did you not like it TP?
Did you not enjoy the witty jousting sessions?
What i believe is going to happen is that people will stop posting anything left-field as they will wonder if it will be deleted, and therefore will look at it as a waste of time. This will lead to a much more sterile, uninteresting forum.
I suppose only time will tell.
I would like to end by saying the reinvention of the OT forum has been a tremendous succes (despite my initial concerns) - so i am not adverse to being proved wrong.
:)
I think we have reason to doubt your sincerity
[
:rolleyes:
Things which YOU think work really well and YOU would like to see here?
Of course. In conjunction with my colleagues here at .tv I'm legally responsible for these boards, that includes making judgements on where we want them to go. That doesn't mean that we won't consult the members your encouraged to have your say and we will listen, but it does mean that ultimately the decision, like the responsibility, is ours. Just as it would be on any independent site as it happens.
this is entirely the point, whilst the things you mention sound quite positive, what about other things - if you decide they would be an improvement they are implemented? What if you are in a minority of one?
See answer above. Of course if you hate the changes that much ultimately you do have the right to post elsewhere. This is one of many message boards. Hopefully you'll give them a chance, take the rough with the smooth and try to be open minded.
Feel free to ignore me, as per your norm
I try and answer everyone eventually. My time is limited however and I have a great many other responsibilities to discharge, so forgive me if I occasionally prioritise other areas. If you require an urgent answer send me an email.
he seems to have sytematically ignored all views that don't fit with his (and, I guess, yours)
Why don't our opinions matter? We pay you to provide a service the way in which you do that is up to you. However, to pretend to consult with us when in fact your just paying lip service is, quite frankly, insulting.
I have a folder full of members responses to questionnaires, emails, posts on threads etc. all of which have been referred to and consulted during the decision making process. It's not lip service, there's been a concerted effort made to find out the views of users in this forum, it's an ongoing process you were invited to take part in. Many members have done so and I'm very grateful to those that did. They were all assured that their views would be taken into account and they have been.
Your talk of insulting behaviour? If your tone wasn't quite so hectoring, and your posts weren't littered with insinuations about my character I'd take your point more seriously. At present your contributions look more to me like an attempt to set yourself up as an internet warrior, rather than someone with a genuine wish to engage with the issues at hand. I've not the time or inclination to pander to that impulse. If you want to genuinely participate in building this community you're more than welcome. You'll have to accept however that the ultimate decisions will be made by us.
:rolleyes:
Of course. In conjunction with my colleagues here at .tv I'm legally responsible for these boards, that includes making judgements on where we want them to go. That doesn't mean that we won't consult the members your encouraged to have your say and we will listen, but it does mean that ultimately the decision, like the responsibility, is ours. Just as it would be on any independent site as it happens.
See answer above. Of course if you hate the changes that much ultimately you do have the right to post elsewhere. This is one of many message boards. Hopefully you'll give them a chance, take the rough with the smooth and try to be open minded.
I try and answer everyone eventually. My time is limited however and I have a great many other responsibilities to discharge, so forgive me if I occasionally prioritise other areas. If you require an urgent answer send me an email.
I have a folder full of members responses to questionnaires, emails, posts on threads etc. all of which have been referred to and consulted during the decision making process. It's not lip service, there's been a concerted effort made to find out the views of users in this forum, it's an ongoing process you were invited to take part in. Many members have done so and I'm very grateful to those that did. They were all assured that their views would be taken into account and they have been.
Your talk of insulting behaviour? If your tone wasn't quite so hectoring, and your posts weren't littered with insinuations about my character I'd take your point more seriously. At present your contributions look more to me like an attempt to set yourself up as an internet warrior, rather than someone with a genuine wish to engage with the issues at hand. I've not the time or inclination to pander to that impulse. If you want to genuinely participate in building this community you're more than welcome. You'll have to accept however that the ultimate decisions will be made by us.
Insinuations about your character? The only one I've made is my perception that you have, in the past, been insincere. Hectoring? How so?
And if you think I'm an "internet warrior" you must be such a delicate little flower. I haven't attacked you, I've even posted to you and about you very positively in the past - like you say take the rough with the smooth. I have genuinely participated in discussions and you have ignored me several times.
In fact, I'd rather you continued to ignore me than persist with baseless accusations like those above
Insinuations about your character? The only one I've made is my perception that you have, in the past, been insincere. Hectoring? How so?
And if you think I'm an "internet warrior" you must be such a delicate little flower. I haven't attacked you, I've even posted to you and about you very positively in the past - like you say take the rough with the smooth. I have genuinely participated in discussions and you have ignored me several times.
In fact, I'd rather you continued to ignore me than persist with baseless accusations like those above
You're no internet warrior, you're posting style suggests however you'd like to be one. As for ignoring you several times see my answer above.
You're no internet warrior, you're posting style suggests however you'd like to be one.
Too funny. Exactly how?
What, exactly, have I said that leads you to this conclusion? I've said good things about you and bad, why am I not able to do that?
DiabyDoesGallas
21-10-08, 15:47
I quite like Eagle Scout now.
:)
So do I , I just wish he wasn't so resistant to criticism and could respond to it without any drama
You're no internet warrior, you're posting style suggests however you'd like to be one.
Too funny. Exactly how?
What, exactly, have I said that leads you to this conclusion? I've said good things about you and bad, why am I not able to do that?
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/index.htm
Try and find yourself on there dookar, it covers most types on these boards.:)
Too funny. Exactly how?
What, exactly, have I said that leads you to this conclusion? I've said good things about you and bad, why am I not able to do that?
Your free to post what you like, good or bad.
If you post something constructive, whether it reflects badly on me or not then I'll consider it. However as in the matter of the position of 'pornography' in the guidelines there seems little point in engaging in a debate with you. There's only so many hours in the day Dookar and all the time I'm purposelessly talking with you there's other things I could be getting on with.
Higgster I'll try and reply to your points in an hour or so.
Your free to post what you like, good or bad.
If you post something constructive, whether it reflects badly on me or not then I'll consider it. However as in the matter of the position of 'pornography' in the guidelines there seems little point in engaging in a debate with you. There's only so many hours in the day Dookar and all the time I'm purposelessly talking with you there's other things I could be getting on with.
Higgster I'll try and reply to your points in an hour or so.
Oh, I see. You've gone from not having the time to respond to me to seeing it as "purposeless" and, I imagine, making a conscious decision not to respond for that reason. You know, like, ignoring me. Insincere - you?
Re the porn thing. Can you not see that it's really, really badly worded and that one potential interpretation of it is that we must not discuss/link to illegal pornography (which is not much, tbh)? Genuine question.
I've just gone back to my pornography post to see what i said that was so terrible.
I clearly say it doesn't matter, implying it's an idiosyncracy of mine. The last two words should be pretty clear that I'm accepting i'm wrong.
It matters nought, but offended my sensibilities. Forgive me.
That's fine, and i won't get personal here (for fear of long term ban! :crying), but what many of us can't understand is what was wrong with the forums before matt arrived?
Other than some duplicate threads, some discontent at permanent rafa bashers, and issues with the search mechanism, i can't remember there being a clamour for change.
Did you not like it TP?
Did you not enjoy the witty jousting sessions?
What i believe is going to happen is that people will stop posting anything left-field as they will wonder if it will be deleted, and therefore will look at it as a waste of time. This will lead to a much more sterile, uninteresting forum.
I suppose only time will tell.
I would like to end by saying the reinvention of the OT forum has been a tremendous succes (despite my initial concerns) - so i am not adverse to being proved wrong.
:)
These are valid concerns and deserve a full answer. You ask why we should change things without a 'clamour for change'? I think much depends on your perspective as a regular user here. Allow me to use an example which we're all familiar with, the failing pub.
One thing which every pub has, successful or not, is regulars. And regulars of pubs which could be doing better are usually very happy with the status quo. Why? Because the barmaid always knows their name and tipple, they get served straight away, their favourite seat is always free and they've probably a decent chance of a lockin.
For such a customer it's perfection. It's like having your own private pub, you've got the other regulars, everyone knows each others name, no-one from outside is going to cause you any aggro and if they do the landlords on your side anyway.
Customers of such pubs rarely appreciate a new broom, what's more they don't see the need for it. Why fix what isn't broken they may ask, quite legitimately from their point of view.
The new landlord/owner has a different perspective. They're looking at the balance sheet, incomings and outgoings, the percentage of potential traffic which chooses to use his establishment, what products are moving and which never leave the stock room. They may poll in the local area, ask former customers, ask those that didn't stick around why they left etc. They'll get a different view from that of the regulars.
Who is right? They're both right according to their perspective. What's more a savvy landlord coming in will recoginise the benefits of keeping the regular customers happy but will also know that won't keep the business afloat on its own. He or she will probably try to make the place more attractive to new and former customers but without destroying the community which is already there. Not always an easy task to accomplish but with help not an impossible task.
The analogy might be a bit stretched but I think it's valid. Just because there's changes and improvements I'd like to make please don't take it as an implied criticism of what you already had. I've been at pains to stress that there's a lot good here already, particularly in E-Season. If this was a pub it's not as if I'd be ripping out the 14th century beams and turning it into a Bernie Inn. I may change some of the tunes in the juke box, and move all food to the dining area however ;)
He was on the boards last night insulting people(eg calling people knobs and w***ers) as usuall. He was then boasting to people that he had, or is going to get them banned and even posting that the mods cant do anything to him.
He blatantly goads people and then reports there response to the mods. He is getting decent people banned on a daily basis and gets away with it scot free!
No-one has anything on the mods or me for that matter.
If a user is boasting about getting others banned that's inciteful and provocative behaviour and they risk incurring a ban themselves.
XABITHECHAVSLAYER
7-11-08, 11:53
No-one has anything on the mods or me for that matter.
If a user is boasting about getting others banned that's inciteful and provocative behaviour and they risk incurring a ban themselves.
So why is he getting away with it Matt? All night last night we had to put up with it again. He came on this morning and his first post he was calling everyone a muppet?
So why is he getting away with it Matt? All night last night we had to put up with it again. He came on this morning and his first post he was calling everyone a muppet?
Which one of the sunshine center brigade are you referring to?
Just curious.
XABITHECHAVSLAYER
7-11-08, 12:05
Which one of the sunshine center brigade are you referring to?
Just curious.
RafaOut! It is ridiculous what he is allowed to say to people without being punished. If we respond we get banned and he then braggs about it. He said to LJOC last night "enjoy your holiday I have got cleverer people than you banned knob"
Its this inconsistancy that drives people mad mate.
RafaOut! It is ridiculous what he is allowed to say to people without being punished. If we respond we get banned and he then braggs about it. He said to LJOC last night "enjoy your holiday I have got cleverer people than you banned knob"
Its this inconsistancy that drives people mad mate.
Yeah he's a bit special that one.
He's already been at it this morning with his pathetic wind up attempts, he isn't worth bothering with. That said, I usually can't help myself and have to reply to him :D
GarraGharrua1892
7-11-08, 12:13
?LJOC is on a forced holiday?:crying
HyppHyppHurray
7-11-08, 12:13
Yeah he's a bit special that one.
. . . . . . he isn't worth bothering with.
Nail hit on head, I think. :)
XABITHECHAVSLAYER
7-11-08, 13:03
?LJOC is on a forced holiday?:crying
Through RafaOut!
XABITHECHAVSLAYER
7-11-08, 13:12
Looks like Matt has put the fool in his place!
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=73864&page=2
Nice 1 Matt
?LJOC is on a forced holiday?:crying
Through RafaOut!
Call me dim but surely somebody can only get themselves banned? Nobody has to use offensive stuff, they type it themselves presumably!
waittillmay
18-11-08, 15:11
Just noticed the 'null' character (alt + 255) displays as an asterix when posted hence:
*
How come? I'm genuinely interested - does it cause problems when it parses or you just don't like jokes with null characters?
I think it's a technical thing, certain characters can cause problems within html files or somesuch. TP would know.
Can someone explain how you can be violent over the internet?:confused::confused:
I'm taking a short break next week. If you have any questions or issues which you'd like me to address before I go then either post them here or contact me via the links below.
John-Pantsil-My-Lord
28-11-08, 12:16
why are you taking a short break? is that really allowed? also how come you deleted daves rants? they were excellent
I'm taking a short break next week. If you have any questions or issues which you'd like me to address before I go then either post them here or contact me via the links below.
Good lord! You've been here how many months before they let you take a bathroom break? :eek:
Can we have a 'Dave's Rant' sticky please?
ForkHandles
28-11-08, 12:40
Can we have a 'Dave's Rant' sticky please?
when Dave's having one of his rants i imagine him sat at his spectrum computer in his Liverpool cape and Liverpool Y-fronts worn outside of his trousers, smoke coming off the keyboard
when Dave's having one of his rants i imagine him sat at his spectrum computer in his Liverpool cape and Liverpool Y-fronts worn outside of his trousers, smoke coming off the keyboard
HAHAHA:D
Brilliant, and most likely spot on too.
Liverdinner
28-11-08, 14:40
a minute ago i had 466 rep points now i have 461 and nothing has changed on userp
Hi Matt
Over the last few weeks I have not been able to see my own 'Ignore List' in my Usercp. I have the page on my favourites to view rep points.
I have just been able to put somebody on my list via their profile, but can't get the whole list to appear for me.
I have checked FAQ and it says to update ignore list via 'Settings and Options' on my Usercp page, but my page doesn't have that option.
Any ideas?
How do you contact a moderator or admin person without posting?
Can you PM them or email?
How do you contact a moderator or admin person without posting?
Can you PM them or email?
The only way to contact a Moderator is to post in feedback, if its in relation to a post you feel is inappropriate then use the report post function.
If you need to contact Admin (aka Matt) then you'll need to email him, but he gets a high volume of emails on a daily basis and it is not always possible for him to reply promptly.
Skrtel-Power
6-6-11, 19:26
I'd like to request that we take away the anonymous repping system and change it to actually indicate who is repping or negging you.
People are already stating that they are repping posters so it seems the present system only serves to enable cowardly posters, who are unable to debate, to neg without fear of reprisal.
In the past week I have been negged by newbies for daring to post in support of a Liverpool player, and for merely stating an opinion about the Real Ronaldo.
I personally, am tired of this. I don't see any downside in taking away the anonymity in posting rep, other than making posters actually accountable for their actions.
I'd like to request that we take away the anonymous repping system and change it to actually indicate who is repping or negging you.
People are already stating that they are repping posters so it seems the present system only serves to enable cowardly posters, who are unable to debate, to neg without fear of reprisal.
In the past week I have been negged by newbies for daring to post in support of a Liverpool player, and for merely stating an opinion about the Real Ronaldo.
I personally, am tired of this. I don't see any downside in taking away the anonymity in posting rep, other than making posters actually accountable for their actions.
Oh my god. Just listen to yourself. Anyone would think you were talking about something serious. No wonder you get negged all the time.
Skrtel-Power
6-6-11, 20:17
Oh my god. Just listen to yourself. Anyone would think you were talking about something serious. No wonder you get negged all the time.
Awfully judgmental of you... Isn't this the feedback thread? Why should it bother you what I choose to post here? I am only speaking for myself and not for you so why jump to conclusion about my personality?
All I am saying is that it bothers me when people hide behind anonymity instead of trying to contribute to a quality conversation.
I am merely asking for the mods to consider making a slight change. There is no need to sully my name just because you don't agree with me.
Sure this isn't the biggest issue they have to face, hence the fact that I stated my case and will leave it at that.
Should they choose to take up the suggestion, then good. If not, then life goes on.
But the fact that you decided to chime in on something that wasn't addressed to you and then take one line in my post out of context and then presume that you know my level of seriousness seems rather unfair.
No skin of my nose mind you. Whatever floats your boat.
Awfully judgmental of you... Isn't this the feedback thread? Why should it bother you what I choose to post here? I am only speaking for myself and not for you so why jump to conclusion about my personality?
All I am saying is that it bothers me when people hide behind anonymity instead of trying to contribute to a quality conversation.
I am merely asking for the mods to consider making a slight change. There is no need to sully my name just because you don't agree with me.
Sure this isn't the biggest issue they have to face, hence the fact that I stated my case and will leave it at that.
Should they choose to take up the suggestion, then good. If not, then life goes on.
But the fact that you decided to chime in on something that wasn't addressed to you and then take one line in my post out of context and then presume that you know my level of seriousness seems rather unfair.
No skin of my nose mind you. Whatever floats your boat.
Keeping it anonymous is the way to go forward I'm afraid, if you could see who left people rep all the time it would cause certain posters to go and track down and badger people into explanations. It will cause more problems then it solves.
Skrtel-Power
6-6-11, 20:28
Keeping it anonymous is the way to go forward I'm afraid, if you could see who left people rep all the time it would cause certain posters to go and track down and badger people into explanations. It will cause more problems then it solves.
Fair enough. But I still feel that at least people will think twice before negging someone.
A little more thought in here from some, probably wouldn't go amiss. :D
But like I said, fair enough.
I'm always astounded at how grown men get so worked up over a nonsensical reputation system on a football forum.
Skrtel-Power
6-6-11, 20:36
I'm always astounded at how grown men get so worked up over a nonsensical reputation system on a football forum.
Perhaps people have a few levels between, not bothered and worked up.
I certainly didn't mean to come across as all outraged and at the end of my tether. I was merely trying to make a suggestion and qualify my suggestion with an occurrence. Nothing more.
But surely your astonishment at such behaviour is no better than getting the perceived outrage at the rep system?
:D
"I personally, am tired of this" = getting worked up.
Skrtel-Power
6-6-11, 21:24
"I personally, am tired of this" = getting worked up.
Really?
I would think "I will quit these forums if my suggestions goes unheeded" = getting worked up.
"I am tired of this" =I have seen this "issue" for a while now, I can see an obvious solution and here it is.
I find it increasingly interesting that you think you can draw so much about a person from isolated sentences from a 4 line post. A post that was meant as a suggestion and nothing more. A post devoid of both facial and vocal expression.
I could easily do the same and suggest that you are trying to justify your "outburst".
Why you felt the need to get involved in the first place I don't know. Like I said before, your astonishment is no better than someone's perceived outrage.
I do know it was misguided and the sooner you come to terms with that the better.
This thread is a relic from a time when the feedback board closed at 5pm, so I'll move these more recent rep posts to the feedback board later.
In regard to rep, I'm not a big fan myself but have been planning a couple of experiments to see whether we can improve it or just bin it altogether.
More on this soon.
Skrtel-Power
6-6-11, 21:32
This thread is a relic from a time when the feedback board closed at 5pm, so I'll move these more recent rep posts to the feedback board later.
In regard to rep, I'm not a big fan myself but have been planning a couple of experiments to see whether we can improve it or just bin it altogether.
More on this soon.
My apologies Matt. I searched for a feedback thread and this one came out on top so I posted in it.
I've received 7 separate lots of positive rep in this thread for my outburst.
Oh if only I knew who it was from.
-PRAETORIAN-
6-6-11, 21:35
This thread is a relic from a time when the feedback board closed at 5pm, so I'll move these more recent rep posts to the feedback board later.
In regard to rep, I'm not a big fan myself but have been planning a couple of experiments to see whether we can improve it or just bin it altogether.
More on this soon.
If you can bin rep, start date, post totals and any other "features" that creates a "I'm better than you" feel to it then you have my backing, lets just have our names and points of view.
Skrtel-Power
6-6-11, 21:36
I've received 7 separate lots of positive rep in this thread for my outburst.
Oh if only I knew who it was from.
am happy for you.
If you can bin rep, start date, post totals and any other "features" that creates a "I'm better than you" feel to it then you have my backing, lets just have our names and points of view.
And perhaps a pretty little pic of ourselves.
-PRAETORIAN-
6-6-11, 21:41
And perhaps a pretty little pic of ourselves.
Well animated avatars have been out some years now ... but a pic of YOU??? hmmmm ;)
If you can bin rep, start date, post totals and any other "features" that creates a "I'm better than you" feel to it then you have my backing, lets just have our names and points of view.
... But I am better than you. ;)
... But I am better than you. ;)
You're not. He has more rep and more posts. He's clearly superior.
Skrtel-Power
6-6-11, 21:46
I only posted in here thinking that it was a feedback thread. Merely wanted to make a suggestion, not make any waves nor receive any grief.
I only meant it for the mods and thats it. I wasn't making any ultimatums or insults. I just thought I'd try to make a proactive step in trying to improve the forums instead of just keeping quiet.
I don't know why that resulted in Cumbrian chiming in. I know there are lots of people who would like to see the entire rep system binned. So I thought I'd put my 2 cents in.
My only mistake is thinking that this was a purely feedback thread. Not a regular thread that would get bumped up so I apologize for that. Like I said, I searched for a forum feedback thread and this came up.
Whenever there's talk of ...... Redfan is around ;)
Whenever there's talk of ...... Redfan is around ;)
:D
I was going to say 'I can sniff 'em out'.
-PRAETORIAN-
6-6-11, 21:48
Keeping it anonymous is the way to go forward I'm afraid, if you could see who left people rep all the time it would cause certain posters to go and track down and badger people into explanations. It will cause more problems then it solves.
The whole premise of a forum is to debate, to have someone leave a dot (colour irrelevant) instead of contributing to the discussion goes completely against the purpose of a forum, starting topics just too see how much red or green they can get is another story altogether, and yes people do it!!! why else would a person start a new topic but NEVER then return and get involved in the debate.
I like start dates and post counts, not because it bigs anyone up, but because it is just part of a forum and should remain. Your profile would look naked with out it.
Whenever there's talk of ...... Redfan is around ;)
She might have deleted the post, but she's hastily looking through all the info the mods have on me to see if she can find my number on file
-PRAETORIAN-
6-6-11, 21:49
... But I am better than you. ;)
Many people have said the same thing, all of which have later found out how easily confused they were. :D
I only posted in here thinking that it was a feedback thread. Merely wanted to make a suggestion, not make any waves nor receive any grief.
I only meant it for the mods and thats it. I wasn't making any ultimatums or insults. I just thought I'd try to make a proactive step in trying to improve the forums instead of just keeping quiet.
I don't know why that resulted in Cumbrian chiming in. I know there are lots of people who would like to see the entire rep system binned. So I thought I'd put my 2 cents in.
My only mistake is thinking that this was a purely feedback thread. Not a regular thread that would get bumped up so I apologize for that. Like I said, I searched for a forum feedback thread and this came up.
Look if I annoyed you I apologise. I just tend not to take life too seriously, especially not on the internet.
She might have deleted the post, but she's hastily looking through all the info the mods have on me to see if she can find my number on file
I'm really not that interested in you. :p
Skrtel-Power
6-6-11, 21:52
Look if I annoyed you I apologise. I just tend not to take life too seriously, especially not on the internet.
Fair enough.
No big deal though. Just wanted to get my point across.
-PRAETORIAN-
6-6-11, 21:52
I like start dates and post counts, not because it bigs anyone up, but because it is just part of a forum and should remain. Your profile would look naked with out it.
I bet if it was replaced by a personal "gamer tag" or personal slogan, such as "We won it 5 Times" (can be changed like username) the start date and post count would soon be forgotten.
Look if I annoyed you I apologise. I just tend not to take life too seriously, especially not on the internet.
Yes you do. You get really excited by some of those sites on the internet...
I bet if it was replaced by a personal "gamer tag" or personal slogan, such as "We won it 5 Times" (can be changed like username) the start date and post count would soon be forgotten.
I'd want my start date gone if it was May 2005 too. :D