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chezzy12
7-5-08, 15:10
Just making a point about this lad. This season will not be the season that defines this young player its the next 2 or even 3 seasons. The amount of people i hear that say get rid is astounding to say the least. He's young,brave confident etc and hasn't even settled into the prem yet so give him time,he will get better but he needs support!!!

waittillmay
20-5-08, 15:47
Liverpool: A Different Kind of Brilliance

There is something reassuringly familiar about Lucas Leiva, a style of play that recalls happier days for Liverpool. Get the ball, pass it on to the nearest red shirt and then move on in readiness to get it back: that used to be the Liverpool way and that is how Leiva plays his football.

In a way, this explains why so little has been said about him. Lucas blends into the side seemingly doing nothing special, certainly not anything that gets him easily noticed. Look closer, however, and the understated importance of his play will become obvious.

Take his passing. Unlike others he is not one for the long cross-field pass but often tends to look around him for players who are in space. It could be construed as lack of ambition or talent but in truth it is simply another way to keep the move going. Especially because of what Lucas often does after each pass: move forward and get ready to receive the ball again.

In other words, he always makes sure that there are options and outlets for those around him to allow Liverpool to move the ball forward and past any pressure that there might be on the midfielders. Far from being a risk free approach, Lucas is in more danger of looking inept if possession is lost than it is if a longer range pass goes slightly wayward. Yet it offers a different dimension to Liverpoolís play. Too many teams have latched on to the fact that Xabi Alonso will cut you in half if you give him space on the ball. Press him, however, and his effectiveness is greatly reduced.

Of course the thing with Alonso is that he is far too intelligent to be easily cornered but the availability of a player like Lucas ensures that there are different alternatives available for Liverpool.

This wasnít always apparent this season but there were enough instances to indicate that it is what Benitez is thinking of. Especially towards the latter part of the season when Lucas started being given more opportunities Ė possibly because it was felt that the player had really started to settle in Ė and as a result he began to really show what heís all about.

It was then that more started to emerge about his game. His reactivity, for instance, and how he immediately starts pressing whenever the ball is lost. Or his defence splitting passes such as the one that put Pennant through on goal against Fulham. Such instances hint at how much more could come from him.

Not that this should have been in any doubt. This was a player who had been a regular for one of Brazilís biggest sides since he was eighteen, a side he had captained as well as playing a major role in its progress to the final of the Copa Libertadores. And this is a player who is a regular member of Brazilís squad, someone who is rated very highly by coach Carlos Dunga.

Perhaps it is because he has already achieved so much that such high expectations are place on him. Not even that, however, justifies the claims that his has been a disappointing season. He might need to improve in certain areas Ė which player his age doesnít? -but he that doesnít diminish the fact that he is an exceptional talent.

Source: http://soccerblogs.net/

Benny-Noons-Ghost
20-5-08, 15:48
It's a shame then that we're reportedly going to opffload him :rolleyes:

I ******* hope we keep him :(

KanyeWest
20-5-08, 15:51
all true, thanks for putting it up:)

Cwdyn
20-5-08, 15:55
Rafa won't sell him, no way!! I think he has the potential to be a top player for us, can't understand why people have been slating him.

KarlAgathon
20-5-08, 16:01
give him atleast two more seasons to show his stuff!

he has got buckets of potential, and needs time to adapt..

"seriously though, on my fm08 he managed 100 successful passes in one game, on 110 attempts:p" - based on that i say he's mint:D

-Gola-
20-5-08, 16:04
tbh he has looked quite slow and light weight on the ball.

he does look good on it though, very good technically and has good distribution, i would like to give him longer and see if he improves though.

but for me the lad looks like he should get himself a move to italy, were its very slow and he'd flourish there. English league is all about power and pace and he lacks both.

RedKola
21-5-08, 13:29
Lucas Leiva has reflected on a promising first season at Anfield by declaring that the best is still to come.
The 21-year-old midfielder, who arrived on Merseyside last summer after leaving Brazilian outfit Gremio, featured in 31 first-team matches for Rafael Benitez's side during the 2007/08 campaign.

By his own admission, it has not always been an easy transition from the playing fields of Latin American to those of the Barclays Premier League, but it is one he believes he has slowly got to grips with and he is hopeful the experience will put him in good stead for next season's campaign.

"I really enjoyed my first season with Liverpool," said Lucas.

"To play 31 games for a club like this in your first season is something I am proud of because it is not easy to adapt to football in a new country.

"I did not play any games in the first three months because I was still adapting to the style but now I feel much more comfortable on the pitch and, hopefully, next season will be better.

"English football is completely different so I needed to learn quickly. I spoke a lot with Steven Gerrard, Xabi Alonso and Javier Mascherano because they know what it takes to play in my position in England and they helped me a lot.

"I tried to do the right things and to learn from them because when you have players like them around you it makes you feel more confident.

"I think I got better as the season went on because at first I did not go forward as much as I would have liked. I was adapting and I wasn't that confident on the pitch. But as the season went on I improved and hopefully next season will be better."

While the majority of Rafael Benitez's squad are now enjoying a well earned rest, Lucas could well find himself playing throughout the summer.

The youngster has been included in a massive 74-man preliminary Brazil squad for the forthcoming Olympic Games in Beijing, a selection that could see him miss the start of the Premier League season.

The Games run from August 8-24 and, if selected as expected, Lucas will miss Liverpool's opening league fixtures as well as qualifiers for the Champions League.

He said: "It is very difficult because no-one likes to miss games for their club. But the Olympics is very important in Brazil and if I want to play in the World Cup games then I cannot afford to miss this tournament.

"But if I do go then I will pick up more experience and hopefully I will also develop as a player and that would be good for me and for Liverpool."

ajaxheart
21-5-08, 13:32
He is yet to come to grips with playing in the position which Rafa is playing him in. He has shown signs of improvement. We will soonb see more to the attacking side of his game. He has got a good shot on him.

rednotdeadyet
21-5-08, 13:49
He better had do:rolleyes:

Seriously though I do believe he's got it in him to be fantastic, challenge yourself kidda, and do it:)

PAZY
21-5-08, 13:53
thank god

Fahid
21-5-08, 13:55
he needs to spend the summer in the gym and he'll be fine......potential......taht is all.

KeemI
21-5-08, 14:01
Lucas has major potential and is highly thought of by his coaches...

Henrycoffin
21-5-08, 14:07
You don't play in the copa libertadores at 19 if your not any good!!!

Give him another season or two and you'll see what he's all about.

LFC_Fan_1_2
21-5-08, 14:09
Why the hell do people copy and paste stuff from the home page? Its pathetic

waittillmay
21-5-08, 14:12
thank god

how can you criticise lucas for having a decent debut season of about 17 games, and praise xabi for 2 seasons of under achievement?

KuytIsKing
21-5-08, 14:28
I'm really pleased to hear this from Lucas and I believe him :D

Show us how it is done son :D :)

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
31-5-08, 18:35
Brazil are one a tour of the USA and I was wondering whether Lucas is included in the squad. Only stuff I can find says that he is on a 71 man shortlist of players to compete for Brazil in the olympics :eek:

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
2-6-08, 21:54
Who will become the bigger star?

£19m and £6m respectively, will it be another case of you get what you pay for like Le Tallec £3m and C. Ronaldo £12m?

RedKola
2-6-08, 21:56
Anderson. :)

flabby
2-6-08, 21:56
People go on and on about Anderson but I just can't see what the **** he does that's so special.

I'm not sure about lucas

MickeyLove
2-6-08, 21:57
For me Anderson is one of the hottest properties in world football.

Very impressive midfielder who can attack as well as he can defend.

I dont believe Lucas has anywhere near his ability to be honest.....

ScouseInExile
2-6-08, 21:57
i don't know yet lucas is older but anderson has showed flashes as has lucas though i do think we got better value for money

lfc-jacko9366
2-6-08, 21:57
lucas

TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
2-6-08, 21:57
I have high hopes for Lucas, but Anderson is currently way ahead.

Ganymede
2-6-08, 21:58
Lucas needs more time, Anderson is better at the moment.

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
2-6-08, 22:00
Anderson. :)

He has definately had a better start mainly cos of his pace and power. Was reading an article by Tim Vickery saying that in Brazil they are suprised he is being used as almost a defensive midfielder; Looking at him play you would never think he ever was a no. 10 type player.

Fowi
2-6-08, 22:10
Lucas, if lucky, will be Anderson's water carrier on the pitch in the future Brazil team.

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
2-6-08, 22:10
Looking at highlights of both of them both at Gremio on that famous video site it seems that both of them have more to offer going forward. But doing it in the Brazilian league and doing it in the Premiership is a lot different.

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
2-6-08, 22:12
Lucas, if lucky, will be Anderson's water carrier on the pitch in the future Brazil team.

LOL You really don't rate the guy do you. :D

Should be interesting seeing them play together at the Olympics.

Wowbagger
2-6-08, 22:13
I hate it when people over quote the prices given for any player.
Anderson was 17 million tops. I dont like people saying Torres cost 27 million when he cost at max 22 million. So i wont like it other way also.

And BTW i think lucas will be better than anderson becasue anderson is a big fat idiot.

Ganymede
2-6-08, 22:14
Wasn't Lucas £8.5 million?

Fowi
2-6-08, 22:14
Lucas is decent, Anderson is excellent.

RedKola
2-6-08, 22:15
Lucas is decent, Anderson is excellent.

I agree. :)

TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
2-6-08, 22:19
People who "can't see it" in Anderson are the sort of people who "couldn't see it" in Redondo.

KanyeWest
2-6-08, 22:21
I hate it when people over quote the prices given for any player.
Anderson was 17 million tops. I dont like people saying Torres cost 27 million when he cost at max 22 million. So i wont like it other way also.

And BTW i think lucas will be better than anderson becasue anderson is a big fat idiot.

i agree, hes a big fat idiot:D
btw torres was 16m + garcia;)



for the record anderson got 1 yes only 1 goal this season and is an attacking player thats been in europe for years, he didnt get any assists either which is disappointing especially considering hes playing in a better team

some people just seem to have a crazy opinion on anderson that just doesnt make sense:)

TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
2-6-08, 22:22
i agree:)
btw torres was 16m + garcia;)



for the record anderson got 1 yes only 1 goal this season and is an attacking player thats been in europe for years, he didnt get any assists either which is disappointing especially considering hes playing in a better team

some people just seem to have a crazy opinion on anderson that just doesnt make sense:)

You haven't watched many games this season have you? DEFENSIVE MIDFIELD!!!

KanyeWest
2-6-08, 22:25
You haven't watched many games this season have you? DEFENSIVE MIDFIELD!!!


for some games he played in that role, not all of them
hes a good young player that has alot of potential but right now especially from some comments ive seen on here hes being blown way out of proportion:)

gedzredz
2-6-08, 22:25
It pains me to say it but I have seen nothing in Lucas to suggest anything to come, he looks slow, lightweight, and gives little going forward or in defence, looks like a boy amongst men.
I really hope I'm just not seeing "it".

Anderson has more potential but he hasn't shown a great deal either.

Wowbagger
2-6-08, 22:28
Wasn't Lucas £8.5 million?

No he was max 6.5 but 6 is the accepted figure.

And btw Anderson ate my pie.

KanyeWest
2-6-08, 22:30
i agree, hes a big fat idiot:D
btw torres was 16m + garcia;)



for the record anderson got 1 yes only 1 goal this season and is an attacking player thats been in europe for years, he didnt get any assists either which is disappointing especially considering hes playing in a better team

some people just seem to have a crazy opinion on anderson that just doesnt make sense:)


CORRECTION: he scored 0 goals:eek::)

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
2-6-08, 22:32
i agree:)
btw torres was 16m + garcia;)



for the record anderson got 1 yes only 1 goal this season and is an attacking player thats been in europe for years, he didnt get any assists either which is disappointing especially considering hes playing in a better team

some people just seem to have a crazy opinion on anderson that just doesnt make sense:)

He hasn't scored at all unless you count the penalty.

Really they are different types of players but due to their nationality, where they have been played since moving to the PL and they both started at same club they will always be compared.

Anderson has lots of strength on the ball whereas Lucas main criticsm is that he is too weak on the ball.

IMO alot of people can't "see it" in Lucas. He will never be an edge of your seat player although his performances in his country say otherwise.

If you look at highlights this season of games where Lucas has played you will find he often recieves the ball more than once in the build up to a goal. Also getting into position Masche and Xabi rarely do. But he can sometimes drift out of games and is "carried" by Masche and Gerrard.

Rafa obviously rates him as he has put him ahead of Alonso on more than one occasion and he has played against Everton, Arsenal, Chelsea (twice) and Inter.

-Tintin-
2-6-08, 22:42
Lucas i have hopes for but i really want him to dominate matches, take a risk, join attacks and so forth, granted that he's done well in patches. Take into account that anderson is relatively new too, but he has a greater impact on games, a bullet of a left foot and is a busy sort of player.

Its high praise that fergie chooses him in big games, such as against us. I looked at that teamsheet and saw him as a weak link, but he surprised me. We'll see next season how they all progress

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
2-6-08, 22:43
-----------------------GS---SB-- G-- A-- SH--SG-- FC --FS--YC--RC
Lucas_______________ 15----8---1---5----30--19--38---18--0---0
Anderson____________ 24---13---0---2----32--14--39---38--3---0


GS: Games started, SB: Used as Substitute, G: Goals, A: Assists, SH: Shots, SG: Shots on goal, YC: Yellow Cards, RC: Red Cards, FC: Fouls Commited, FS: Fouls Suffered

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=88360&cc=5739
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=92983&cc=5739

Not sure how reliable these are as some of the totals were added up wrong from the colums so i corrected them myself

Mountainman
2-6-08, 22:47
My impression is Lucas is unfortunately not fast or strong enough for the Premier League. Too often moved aside by opponents. Not enough trickery or silky skills to make up for physical limitations. I think he is at best a squad player. Unless he shows significant improvement next season, it may be better to sell him to a club in Italy or Spain, where I think he may do better given the less intense pace of the game.

KanyeWest
2-6-08, 22:51
-----------------------GS---SB-- G-- A-- SH--SG-- FC --FS--YC--RC
Lucas_______________ 15----8---1---5----30--19--38---18--0---0
Anderson____________ 24---13---0---2----32--14--39---38--3---0


GS: Games started, SB: Used as Substitute, G: Goals, A: Assists, SH: Shots, SG: Shots on goal, YC: Yellow Cards, RC: Red Cards, FC: Fouls Commited, FS: Fouls Suffered

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=88360&cc=5739
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=92983&cc=5739

Not sure how reliable these are as some of the totals were added up wrong from the colums so i corrected them myself



interesting:)

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
2-6-08, 22:54
I know stats don't tell the full story (example Voronin best goals/minutes played ratio :D) but looking at those numbers Lucas has been better.

Rafa obsesses about stats from what I read so I'm sure he is aware. Most suprising is how many shots on goal he's had compared to Anderson.

Jay-Cutlers-Thumb
2-6-08, 22:55
Lucas is decent, Anderson is excellent.

Is the short answer :)

TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
2-6-08, 22:55
Stats a like short skirts - they only show the best bits.

Anderson had a bigger impact, no matter what the stats show.

-Tintin-
2-6-08, 22:58
Anderson has the dynamic all round game that we'd love in our midfield. Lucas seems...clumsy and wants too much time. Hopefully all that will change next season and he'll score 22 goals...bla bla.

Dublin24
3-6-08, 09:33
Based solely on the premiership, Lucas has played 1110mins, didnít score but set up 5. However, two of these assists were the hand ball penalty at Everton and knocking a free kick a little early only for Gerrard to recover and score a thumper against Newcastle.

Anderson played 1485, also didnít score and got just the one assist. However I see Anderson as having a lot more potential than Lucas considering Anderson gave us an absolute headache with his pace and trickery earlier this season.

Also the assist statistic is only given as the last person to pass the ball before the striker scores. There for there is the potential for any player in the league to have beaten three players, put a 30 yard through ball through just for the receiver to put it across goal for the tap in and claim the assist.

When Iím at it I may as well compare barry and xabi which seems to be another one on the tip of peoples tongues.

Xabi played 1468mins this season scoring 2 goals and getting one assist. Granted heís a defensive midfielder but his goal contribution is less than Lucasís who had 358mins less on the pitch than xabi. Donít get me wrong, I think Alonso is better than lucas but his goal contribution has been poor this year. 1 goal contribution every 489mins or 5 and a half games.

Barry played a staggering 3319mins this season and only missed one match all year and managed to remain consistent until the end. He also chipped in with 9 goals albeit mostly pens and 10 assists. He has a fantastic free kick and corner, both of which we are short of. His goal contribution is every 174mins or 1 in 2 games which is phenomenal considering he is villaís Alonso where Petrov plays the Gerrard role.

To round off my point I think that Anderson is better than lucas and barry is better than xabi.

Fowi
3-6-08, 09:33
They're completely different as well. Lucas is someone who can cover holes in midfield, work hard and win many balls. He's a player who does all the dirty work and I think he'll get better at this in time. Anderson, on the other hand, is someone who can dictate games and he will eventually be able to dominate them and win them.

As I said, Lucas could be Anderson's water carrier.

Dublin24
3-6-08, 09:38
To be fair Fowi, I wouldn't be Lucas's biggest fan although i'm not gonna be over critical at this early stage, but we have seen lucas play a couple of box to box games for us where he was impressive. 1 factor which i overlooked is that anderson made the move to europe earlier than lucas which helps with the adjustment. Anderson made a 2 step adjustment via porto with champions league football to man utd whereas lucas went straight from a weakening brazillian league straight into the toughest league in the world (with spain very close by)

Joe-El
3-6-08, 09:39
Anderson is class, Lucas looked poor when he played, mayb he'll improve. It could very well be Le Tallec and Ronaldo all over again... or Drogba and Cisse!

Fowi
3-6-08, 09:41
Anderson did move to Europe sooner but he also rocked the boat at Porto and was actually much better than he's been for Man Utd. I think the position in which Ferguson is playing him suits him well. I don't see him being an offensive playmaker. He's a central midfielder who needs to work all over the pitch. He has the energy to do just that while I don't feel he has the composure to play the position that the likes of Ronaldinho and Kaka are playing.

Dublin24
3-6-08, 09:43
He did very well at porto agreed but then again quaresma looks good in portugal so there's hope for everybody

Fowi
3-6-08, 09:45
Portgual is not some basement league. You have internationals like Nuno Gomes, Helder Postiga, Simao etc who never did all too much in that league. If Lucas had been at Porto I don't think he would have moved on tbh. Lucho is a much better player and he's still playing there.

DEANO-FAZ
3-6-08, 09:45
Anderson has more agression, power, ability, flair, desire, pace.

Which makes him the better player by a country mile. Lucas is an average player who will disappear into Espanyol.

Also Anderson has changed his game since coming to Manu. fergie has him sitting in the hole protecting the back four, which I think suits him better. He has all the attributes that Edgar Davids had.

Fowi
3-6-08, 09:47
He has all the attributes that Edgar Davids had.

Absolutely. He's a replica of the great Davids.

Dublin24
3-6-08, 09:48
Nuno Gomes struggled somewhat in Italy once they copped on to him, Helder Postiga did nothing at spurs despite the hype, Simao is struggling at athletico.

I'm not saying that the portuguese league is terrible, it has 3 teams in it that can cause problems in benfica, lisbon and porto, but there is an absolutely obvious gulf in the difference between portugal and the top leagues.

Fowi
3-6-08, 09:51
There is a gulf in quality but there is an even bigger gulf in quality between Brazilian league and top leagues and they still export the largest number of top class players to Europe. If a player is good and you've seen him play with your own two eyes, it really doesn't matter where he's playing. Dennis Bergkamp could have played football at your barbecue party and you would have noticed he's top class.

Dublin24
3-6-08, 10:18
There is a gulf in quality but there is an even bigger gulf in quality between Brazilian league and top leagues and they still export the largest number of top class players to Europe. If a player is good and you've seen him play with your own two eyes, it really doesn't matter where he's playing. Dennis Bergkamp could have played football at your barbecue party and you would have noticed he's top class.


Fowi I think you're taking me up wrong. I think anderson is a class act because he has shown it in england. What I am also saying that had anderson only done it in portugal and not moved to england i wouldnt have been as convinced as I am now. I think the fact that anderson has played in portugal gave him the edge over lucas in his first season since lucas had a much higher gulf in leagues to overcome. Unfortunately I think lucas will always be behind anderson in quality but I do see the potential for him to be a very good "water carrier" with a little more attacking edge than the likes of other water carriers such as deschamps, makelele and mascherano

Fowi
3-6-08, 10:26
Fowi I think you're taking me up wrong. I think anderson is a class act because he has shown it in england. What I am also saying that had anderson only done it in portugal and not moved to england i wouldnt have been as convinced as I am now. I think the fact that anderson has played in portugal gave him the edge over lucas in his first season since lucas had a much higher gulf in leagues to overcome. Unfortunately I think lucas will always be behind anderson in quality but I do see the potential for him to be a very good "water carrier" with a little more attacking edge than the likes of other water carriers such as deschamps, makelele and mascherano

Agree on that. Though I don't think Lucas will ever come close to the overall levels of Deschamps, Makelele or Mascherano. I can see him becoming something like Flamini with a bit more attacking game.

Jodzo
3-6-08, 10:28
anderson is better but i think that lucas can become very good player if he changes his mentality... every time i watched him play he was hiding and seamed affraid of tackle, to shoot, to drrible etc...

Dublin24
3-6-08, 10:30
I don't think Lucas will ever come close to the overall levels of Deschamps, Makelele or Mascherano. I can see him becoming something like Flamini with a bit more attacking game.

Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking. What an arse ways way to come to the same conclusion lol

molbysgut
1-9-08, 21:23
Is he the worst midfield player we've had since Oyvind Leonardson?

Contributed nothing vs Villa (may be not in his correct position - but I'm not sure where that is).

Anyone see anything in him at all?

robbieflowerpot
1-9-08, 21:24
Two words. Lightweight and over-rated.

Sometimes you just have to be honest.

KanyeWest
1-9-08, 21:25
Better than alonso so its impossible for Lucas to be the worst

molbysgut
1-9-08, 21:26
Better than alonso so its impossible for Lucas to be the worst

Sir, you jest!

TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
1-9-08, 21:26
I think he would flourish in a good attacking side - think Antonio Conte.

Snippes
1-9-08, 21:26
Is he the worst midfield player we've had since Oyvind Leonardson?

Contributed nothing vs Villa (may be not in his correct position - but I'm not sure where that is).

Anyone see anything in him at all?

What a completely moronic thing to say :rolleyes:

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
1-9-08, 21:27
Rafa played him way out of position during that game. He plays best as a central midfielder with someone more defensive minded behind him. It seemed that Rafa wanted play him everywhere but his correct position.

robbieflowerpot
1-9-08, 21:28
Rafa played him way out of position during that game. He plays best as a central midfielder with someone more defensive minded behind him. It seemed that Rafa wanted play him everywhere but his correct position.

That last sentence could apply to least five of our players, every match.. ;)

LiverpoolSuarezNo7
1-9-08, 21:29
Better than alonso so its impossible for Lucas to be the worst

Thats such a joke its unreal


What a completely moronic thing to say :rolleyes:

No it's not. Lucas is very over-rated, I think he's a below-average player and if he got his hair cut maybe he'd be able to see a bit better :rolleyes: .

He didn't give anything against Villa at all

KanyeWest
1-9-08, 21:29
Sir, you jest!

:confused:

Ryanmclfc
1-9-08, 21:29
Wow i feel people are over reacting. players are always in for it after a bad team performance. But i think its harsh to call him the worst since leo.

TheRattlesnake
1-9-08, 21:32
He was bought on the strength of his displays in Brazil where he was used mainly as an attacking midfielder with license....much like Gerrards favoured role....he scored plenty of goals and i dont understand why we seem to constantly buy players based on their performances in certina roles only when we get them to play them everywhere but.....

Sunday Lucas was a centre midfielder playing on the left, not only that a centre midfielder who could not possibly be at his best as he does not play anywhere near often enough.....NO PLAYER plays at the right level if they play so periodically. Also Sunday nobody really looked that great ahead of the back four.....maybe mascherano aside!

robbieflowerpot
1-9-08, 21:32
Wow i feel people are over reacting. players are always in for it after a bad team performance. But i think its harsh to call him the worst since leo.

Oyvind did at least know how to attack. It's harsh on him more than anything.

Lenny-and-Carl
1-9-08, 21:33
He is a central midfielder / playmaker with good touch and awareness and an eye for opening up defenses. What he lacks is strength, game accumen and experience. Hopefully that will come, but right now he does not look ready to command a place in the regular 1st XI.

Don't give up on him just yet.

And Biscan was worse than Leonardsen

AdY
1-9-08, 21:33
Idiot.

stano123
1-9-08, 21:36
not that i believe anyone was particularly great but, i do think he is an average player.

Slow, weak, cant tackle, can pass the ball, but very rarely forward or with any purpose .

TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
1-9-08, 21:37
And Biscan was worse than Leonardsen

Hmmm...

I'll give you that Oyvind was a better player than Igor, but at least Biscan contributed to something special.

Therefore Igor Biscan get my vote.

molbysgut
1-9-08, 21:40
There's the rub - the lad gets a chance to shine, first game of the season, Gerrard out for 2-3 weeks and he's completly anonymous.

Where's the ambition, where's the desire. He just gave the ball away, conceded sloppy free kicks al la Scholes and contibuted nothing to the team.

Where ever he plays he's got to bust a gut to show the manager and fans that he's worth a pick.

Nae heart.

Jezza1968
1-9-08, 21:41
Last season Lucas played ok when he played a few games.
He is as people have said more of a Stevie G type player if you are looking for his best position.
Rafa has played him more of a holding player, give him more liscense and we will see more from him.

robbieflowerpot
1-9-08, 21:41
There's the rub - the lad gets a chance to shine, first game of the season, Gerrard out for 2-3 weeks and he's completly anonymous.

Where's the ambition, where's the desire. He just gave the ball away, conceded sloppy free kicks al la Scholes and contibuted nothing to the team.

Where ever he plays he's got to bust a gut to show the manager and fans that he's worth a pick.

Nae heart.

It could have been worse, Plessis could have played..

Lenny-and-Carl
1-9-08, 21:45
Hmmm...

I'll give you that Oyvind was a better player than Igor, but at least Biscan contributed to something special.

Therefore Igor Biscan get my vote.

Having a Biscan vs leonardsen debate does make 1990 feel an awfully long time ago doesn't it?

Neither are a patch on David Speedie! :)

molbysgut
1-9-08, 21:45
It could have been worse, Plessis could have played..

Aye, mebbes.

But the difference is that Plessis took his chance against Arsenal and stood out. True against Leige he was poor but I reckon his time may come again.

BadgersAnonymous
1-9-08, 21:47
I said all last year that Lucas is about as solid a 6/10er as you could ever get to see. So far this season he has delivered 6/10s

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
1-9-08, 21:49
Some people overrate Lucas and others can't see anything good about him like the OP. Lucas does lack urgency in his play but he is one of the best passers in our team. He is never gonna be the type of player who runs with the ball from his own half past players so he has to rely on his off the ball movement and vision.

AdY
1-9-08, 21:50
Vs Villa Rafa had mascherano as the most attacking out of the 3, why, im not so sure, alonso is a central creative midfielder like carrick/scholes/fabregas, not a holding midfielder and lucas got put out on the left yet didnt have a license to go forward. I don't think Rafa is helping his progression

BoDiddley
1-9-08, 21:52
It's difficult to tell how good a player is when he rarely plays, and when he does it's out of position, in a team totally lacking any width or balance, and sent out to suffocate the game.

Edgie10
1-9-08, 21:53
Lucas is a decent young player. He's still very young & inexperienced & is just embarking on his 2nd season in the worlds toughest league.

To label him as useless is just an insult to the manager & the club imo

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
1-9-08, 21:53
Aye, mebbes.

But the difference is that Plessis took his chance against Arsenal and stood out. True against Leige he was poor but I reckon his time may come again.

So Lucas has not stood out so far :eek: . Look at the highlights of Chelsea away, West Ham away, Everton away and both Inter games (oh and his goal vs Havant) on the e-season console and I'm sure you will proven wrong.

Target-Man
1-9-08, 21:54
Lucas must be worthless, because is picked to play for Brazil and obviously Brazil has no competition for midfield positions. :confused:

It can't be much fun playing for this club these days. You have waited for your chance, you get one game out of position, and because you don't have your best game, the fans say that you are over-rated. The lad is only 21, and he's a central midfielder. He has played one game this season - out of is normal position! Criticizing him for one poor performance under these conditions is plainly ridiculous!

Lucas is the youngest of our 1st team midfielders (I still count Plessis among the reserves). He is playing in a position, which normally requires quite a bit of experience to play well, and he has shown promise when getting a decent run. If we don't give him a fair chance, I bet that in a few years we will find him topping the list in the "Players we let go too soon" thread.

AdY
1-9-08, 21:54
It's difficult to tell how good a player is when he rarely plays, and when he does it's out of position, in a team totally lacking any width or balance, and sent out to suffocate the game.

for once i agree with you

stano123
1-9-08, 21:56
So Lucas has not stood out so far :eek: . Look at the highlights of Chelsea away, West Ham away, Everton away and both Inter games (oh and his goal vs Havant) on the e-season console and I'm sure you will proven wrong.

He is just like Danny Murphy to me, an ok player but i expect more from my midfield players.

KanyeWest
1-9-08, 21:56
Thats such a joke its unreal



Not a joke at all, at least Lucas can short pass

vecchio47toes
1-9-08, 21:56
agreed, he is def. better than Alonso. and if we're being honest, blame it on 'injury' or w/e... but he did a hell of a lot more than Gerrard did in all but about 8 minutes this season

I know he's taking your beloved Spearing's place, and you want to slate him b/c he has long hair... but maybe he just plays too much football for english people to understand.

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
1-9-08, 21:57
It's difficult to tell how good a player is when he rarely plays, and when he does it's out of position, in a team totally lacking any width or balance, and sent out to suffocate the game.

100% agree

molbysgut
1-9-08, 21:58
Vs Villa Rafa had mascherano as the most attacking out of the 3, why, im not so sure, alonso is a central creative midfielder like carrick/scholes/fabregas, not a holding midfielder and lucas got put out on the left yet didnt have a license to go forward. I don't think Rafa is helping his progression

Sums up Rafas appproach to games: we've got a point lets nick a win.

Why not play the lad you paid 11m for on the left (although he's right footed and likes to play in the middle) or the two wingers we've sent out on loan, that we'll never see.

Na, lets put a lightweight central midfielder out wide who'll naturally gravitates to the middle and see if we get away with it.

Lo and behold - he does! He gets a point. Genius.

robbieflowerpot
1-9-08, 21:59
agreed, he is def. better than Alonso. and if we're being honest, blame it on 'injury' or w/e... but he did a hell of a lot more than Gerrard did in all but about 8 minutes this season

I know he's taking your beloved Spearing's place, and you want to slate him b/c he has long hair... but maybe he just plays too much football for english people to understand.

Think your credibility just went for a Burton there mate to be honest. With just about every word it imploded..

Bacon84
1-9-08, 22:09
Is he the worst midfield player we've had since Oyvind Leonardson?

Contributed nothing vs Villa (may be not in his correct position - but I'm not sure where that is).

Anyone see anything in him at all?

lucas is still young, with a lot to learn, but does have good technique and intelligence so could come good. his performances have been lacking, but i definitely think he has can yet be an important player for us.... lets wait and see

molbysgut
1-9-08, 22:38
lucas is still young, with a lot to learn, but does have good technique and intelligence so could come good. his performances have been lacking, but i definitely think he has can yet be an important player for us.... lets wait and see

I really do hope so. I'd love to see one of our youngsters make it to the top.

KingLuisNo7
3-9-08, 11:49
With Alonso more than likely going to get the nod over Lucas in most games.

I think the coaches should take some time and put the lad in the gym to toughen him up a bit.

He's a bit to light weight for me and he's at a good age for a good few sessions in the gym.

LFCToM
3-9-08, 11:54
Good Idea

Jodzo
3-9-08, 11:58
i rate lucas very very high and gym thing is probably good idea...

waittillmay
3-9-08, 11:59
or he could become top heavy and lose his mobility as Owen did

KingLuisNo7
3-9-08, 12:02
Well he doesn't actually have to run around looking like Arnie does he.

An extra stone on him would do.

Mascherano is a inch shorter than him but almost 2 stone heavier!

And he's mobile as ****!

maccaynwa09
3-9-08, 12:07
i rate lucas very very high and gym thing is probably good idea...


I THINK HE'S OVER RATED!, NOT GOOD ENOUGH NOW, AND I CANNOT SEE HIM BEING GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY FOR LIVERPOOL FC!

waittillmay
3-9-08, 12:09
Well he doesn't actually have to run around looking like Arnie does he.

An extra stone on him would do.


Precisely, he doesn't. Weight does not equal strength.

Tiggy2
3-9-08, 12:11
I wish it did because I would be bolt hard.

LiverpoolRealist
3-9-08, 12:13
I THINK HE'S OVER RATED!, NOT GOOD ENOUGH NOW, AND I CANNOT SEE HIM BEING GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY FOR LIVERPOOL FC!

Ditto. Do not rate him at all. For the sake of this club I hope I'm proved wrong!

Jodzo
3-9-08, 12:14
I THINK HE'S OVER RATED!, NOT GOOD ENOUGH NOW, AND I CANNOT SEE HIM BEING GOOD ENOUGH TO PLAY FOR LIVERPOOL FC!

he's best short passer in the team by far and his movement of the ball is superb... and turn off CAPS LOCK you are not megatron...

maccaynwa09
3-9-08, 12:29
he's best short passer in the team by far and his movement of the ball is superb... and turn off CAPS LOCK you are not megatron...

ASIF! SIMPLE HES NOT GOOD ENOUGH

Jodzo
3-9-08, 12:31
ASIF! SIMPLE HES NOT GOOD ENOUGH

brazilian player of the year is not good enough...okay...:confused::rolleyes:

maccaynwa09
3-9-08, 12:37
brazilian player of the year is not good enough...okay...:confused::rolleyes:

Means nothing if he's not good enough for the Prem, Does my head in if 'SO CALLED FANS' stick up for players just because we have them when simply they are not good enough!, whats he done since we have signed him???? NOTHING!

Tiggy2
3-9-08, 12:38
He scored in the derby.

maccaynwa09
3-9-08, 12:40
He scored in the derby.


thats about it!, he offers no more than if we had a reserve player in there! My opinion is he's a waste of money!

AdY
3-9-08, 12:40
Means nothing if he's not good enough for the Prem, Does my head in if 'SO CALLED FANS' stick up for players just because we have them when simply they are not good enough!, whats he done since we have signed him???? NOTHING!

shut up you moron, hes barely played 2 games in a row since hes joined so how has he had a chance to prove how good he is? the way we play doesnt help him at all but as said above hes a very good short passer, he rarely gives the ball away and hes a clever player, similar to fabregas/scholes just nowhere near their level yet

Jodzo
3-9-08, 12:42
inter game?? he showed what he's capable of... give the young lad a chance , he will improve...

Tiggy2
3-9-08, 12:43
thats about it!, he offers no more than if we had a reserve player in there! My opinion is he's a waste of money!

Massive potential and i think his natural style of play is a style that Liverpool FC should be trying to go back to, i.e. quick short passes and runs.

I have no idea if he will come god but he has certainly not fufilled all of his potential yet - lets hope he gets better and better.

Remember that sublime goal he curled in against Havent, ok not top quality opposition but a demonstration of his ability?

KingLuisNo7
3-9-08, 12:48
Precisely, he doesn't. Weight does not equal strength.


So a stone of pure muscle wouldn't help give strenght?

Please tell me your joking?

Take a look at Ronaldo when he first joined the Prem.

The boy got bigger and stronger in ever season he was over here.

AdY
3-9-08, 12:51
So a stone of pure muscle wouldn't help give strenght?

Please tell me your joking?

Take a look at Ronaldo when he first joined the Prem.

The boy got bigger and stronger in ever season he was over here.

he could do with putting on some weight but hes a very similar player to fabregas and scholes and they are both pretty small, just checked and he actually weighs more than fabregas, hes nearly 12 stone, he just needs to impose himself a bit more

KingLuisNo7
3-9-08, 12:54
He's getting pushed around like.

If i was like him i'd be tamping if people were pushing me around in midfield.

I'd go out of my way to make myself stronger.

jambags
3-9-08, 13:01
inter game?? he showed what he's capable of... give the young lad a chance , he will improve...

exactly. showed what he can do against top class opposition, him n masch stole the show, n built the platform for us to go out and attack! he is full of energy n running, n what i like about him is when he loses it, like masch, hes back at their heels winning it back, somethin alonso (tho i still dont wanna lose him) doesnt do.

Stevief79
3-9-08, 13:15
So a stone of pure muscle wouldn't help give strenght?

Please tell me your joking?

Take a look at Ronaldo when he first joined the Prem.

The boy got bigger and stronger in ever season he was over here.

Ronaldo looked very good when he first came here though. I hope I am wrong but I don't think that Lucas will cut it. I agree with everyone who says he has done very little to justify his selection in the team. At the moment he is living off his 'captain of the Brazil under 21's' reputation. He has not done enough in a red shirt for me.

If Lucas was English would he even get a look in? Personally I think that Spearing looks a better talent. The more I watch Spearing the more I like. I thought that he was class last night and I would love to see him given a chance. He has got a better touch than Lucas and you can see the hunger in his play.

Lucas and Kuyt seem to get in the team for their reputations before they came to Liverpool. I honestly believe that we would be a better team if we swapped them for Spearing and Pacheco.

KingLuisNo7
3-9-08, 13:25
Spearing reminds me of a Staffordshire bull terrier.

He looks like he could hurt a few people in midfield.

Same with Pacheco though. He's only slight in build.

But he's going to get knocked off the ball all shapes!

LiverpoolRealist
3-9-08, 13:28
I totally agree with Macca25, how you guys can rate him is beyond me. As for best short passer we have, give me a ********** break!

We haven't won the league in so long and we have had standard players in between that time. Due to this fans seem to accept players of his standard. We may as well have Mike Marsh and Paul Stewart back!

Like I said in an earlier reply, I hope for the sake of this club that I'm proved wrong. If he has got such great potential why was Rafa looking to break the bank Barry?

Jodzo
3-9-08, 13:28
Spearing cant reach Lucas literally and metaphorically ...

Stevief79
3-9-08, 13:30
Spearing reminds me of a Staffordshire bull terrier.

He looks like he could hurt a few people in midfield.

Same with Pacheco though. He's only slight in build.

But he's going to get knocked off the ball all shapes!

Lol. Loving the Spearing comparison. I will be dissapointed if he doesn't get a chance this season.

I get your point about Pacheco, I just think that he has got exactly what the team is currently lacking - flair, imagination and creativity. Sure he will get knocked off the ball but so did Ronaldo when he was a 17/18 year old playing week in week out for Man U?

KingLuisNo7
3-9-08, 13:35
Yea, good point mate.

It will give him experience.

The only thing is then. Will he have the balls to take it on the chin. Get up, dust himself off and still go for it.

I'm sure Torres would help him along there.

LiverpoolRealist
3-9-08, 13:44
Another point is his age. People says he is young but I'm not having that as excuse. Alonso joined us at 22 and we all know what he done in first 2yrs. Gerrard at 21 - need I say more, even Sissoko joined us at 20 and was brilliant in his first 18-24 months. He commanded a first team spot.

Lucus on the other hand has to improve every aspect of his game. Sorry but not good enough, neither is kuyt and a couple others, but hey most think they are good enough for LIVERPOOL FC. Not good enough for Manure, Arsenal or Chelsea but good enough for us!

That just tells me for those who believe in these so called great players you hold the other three teams in a higher regard than that of your own team.

AdY
3-9-08, 13:52
Ronaldo looked very good when he first came here though. I hope I am wrong but I don't think that Lucas will cut it. I agree with everyone who says he has done very little to justify his selection in the team. At the moment he is living off his 'captain of the Brazil under 21's' reputation. He has not done enough in a red shirt for me.

If Lucas was English would he even get a look in? Personally I think that Spearing looks a better talent. The more I watch Spearing the more I like. I thought that he was class last night and I would love to see him given a chance. He has got a better touch than Lucas and you can see the hunger in his play.

Lucas and Kuyt seem to get in the team for their reputations before they came to Liverpool. I honestly believe that we would be a better team if we swapped them for Spearing and Pacheco.

Sorry but Spearing was not good last night, i have seen him play much better and i still think he has no chance of making it, he was very sloppy last night. Pacheco is clearly a talent but does too much at times and often looks for the clever ball too much. Plessis was getting in ahead of Spearing and hes the most one-dimensional player ever. Lucas is so far ahead of both of them, theres no way Spearing has a better touch than him. You have to realise the difference from reserve level to the first team, everytime Leto played in the reserves he looked a world beater but really struggled in the first team, Spearing doesnt even stand out in the reserves.

ryan41
3-9-08, 14:10
think he could have a big season for us this year give him time, or is it cause rafa bought him people dont like him, he is only young he will come good

crobra
3-9-08, 14:17
Well, Rafa and scouts have seen something in him. But lets be realistic, he is not ronaldo and player of his type are still development stages of their career & will start to show quality a year or two from now. Mashers and Lucas will be anchoring the middle of the club for years to come. They are the the future of the club, but he needs playing time to develop.

LLS
3-9-08, 14:25
Another point is his age. People says he is young but I'm not having that as excuse. Alonso joined us at 22 and we all know what he done in first 2yrs. Gerrard at 21 - need I say more, even Sissoko joined us at 20 and was brilliant in his first 18-24 months. He commanded a first team spot.

Lucus on the other hand has to improve every aspect of his game. Sorry but not good enough, neither is kuyt and a couple others, but hey most think they are good enough for LIVERPOOL FC. Not good enough for Manure, Arsenal or Chelsea but good enough for us!

That just tells me for those who believe in these so called great players you hold the other three teams in a higher regard than that of your own team.

Alonso was an important player in the Spanish league, Gerrard was brought through the ranks, and Sissoko had also played in the French league and Spanish league.

As we have seen with Anderson at Man Utd, a stop in Europe makes a big difference. Don't forget that Lucas came straight from Brazil, into an environment with only one other Brazilian, a Fabio Aurelio that wasn't around much last season.

I'm not saying he will make it, but remember this when comparing him to the others.

AdY
3-9-08, 14:31
It's ridiculous, hes fighting with Alonso, Mascherano and Gerrard for a spot in central midfield, he's not even a regular and people are writing him off, for a 4th choice centre mid hes fantastic, we have much deeper problems in other positions

PassionInMyPants
3-9-08, 14:36
Sorry but Spearing was not good last night, i have seen him play much better and i still think he has no chance of making it, he was very sloppy last night. Pacheco is clearly a talent but does too much at times and often looks for the clever ball too much. Plessis was getting in ahead of Spearing and hes the most one-dimensional player ever. Lucas is so far ahead of both of them, theres no way Spearing has a better touch than him. You have to realise the difference from reserve level to the first team, everytime Leto played in the reserves he looked a world beater but really struggled in the first team, Spearing doesnt even stand out in the reserves.

^ Well said.

I watched virtually every reserve game last year and Leto was one of the shining stars in that side. Also, everytime Lucas played with the reserves he came out with a man of the match performance (often with a goal/assist too).

I think Spearing has got potential but i fear the lack of height is keeping him behind Plessis in the pecking order.

Lucas is better than both hands down....!

Stevief79
3-9-08, 15:12
^ Well said.

I watched virtually every reserve game last year and Leto was one of the shining stars in that side. Also, everytime Lucas played with the reserves he came out with a man of the match performance (often with a goal/assist too).

I think Spearing has got potential but i fear the lack of height is keeping him behind Plessis in the pecking order.

Lucas is better than both hands down....!

Spearing is 5ft6 which is the same height as Paul Scholes. Spearing is also aggressive and starting to fill out.

I was actually going to write about Lucas' performances for the reserves. He has never stood out at all! I honestly believe if Lucas was not Brazilian there would be no fuss at all. I am yet to come across anyone not on these boards (i.e in the pub, mates from football, non-LFC press, critics etc) actually rate him. I hope I am wrong about him but he doesn't look good enough and has done nothing to justify a place in our line-up. I could say that about a few of our players though.....

AdY
3-9-08, 15:29
Spearing is 5ft6 which is the same height as Paul Scholes. Spearing is also aggressive and starting to fill out.

I was actually going to write about Lucas' performances for the reserves. He has never stood out at all! I honestly believe if Lucas was not Brazilian there would be no fuss at all. I am yet to come across anyone not on these boards (i.e in the pub, mates from football, non-LFC press, critics etc) actually rate him. I hope I am wrong about him but he doesn't look good enough and has done nothing to justify a place in our line-up. I could say that about a few of our players though.....

He's 4th choice for our strongest position, hes not a regular. We have players who are first choice who are weaker, like Kuyt as you said before

EskilJehn
3-9-08, 15:41
All the players do gym training already as part of the training regime, as in every PL club :o

As said before, for a 4th choice center midfielder aged 21, he's class.

You don't get games for Brazil's first team, when you're 20, if you can't play football.

And I do like the clever through balls, he so often produces :)

iface
3-9-08, 15:46
this is his season to step up. start scoring some goals and showing us he knows how to control the middle of the pitch.

but yes i do agree he needs to bulk up.

Echos
3-9-08, 15:47
probably not a bad idea higginz...i like lucas though

Carra23Legend
3-9-08, 15:58
If Lucas played for Arsenal he'd be Awesome, would fit in really well and they would love him.

I think he is a good player with great potential, excellent mobility and short passing ability, just needs to improve awareness a little as sometimes gets caught in possession (But not as badly as Xabi!)

As someone said, for a 4th choice midfielder, I think he is a valued member of the squad!

Echos
3-9-08, 16:06
If Lucas played for Arsenal he'd be Awesome, would fit in really well and they would love him.

I think he is a good player with great potential, excellent mobility and short passing ability, just needs to improve awareness a little as sometimes gets caught in possession (But not as badly as Xabi!)

As someone said, for a 4th choice midfielder, I think he is a valued member of the squad!

good stuff

langersandmash
3-9-08, 17:06
If Lucas played for Arsenal he'd be Awesome, would fit in really well and they would love him.

I think he is a good player with great potential, excellent mobility and short passing ability, just needs to improve awareness a little as sometimes gets caught in possession (But not as badly as Xabi!)

As someone said, for a 4th choice midfielder, I think he is a valued member of the squad!

Exactly mate. If he was at Arse we'd be livid that we'd let him slip under our radar.

And as for being our fourth choice, he's in the ideal position ie. can learn from the best in the business (Stevie n Masch) whilst still providing adequate cover and bags of potential.

I was thinking back to the other day when Rafa brought in Aurelio and claimed that he was just as good a ball player as Xabi. Well I think that asked who his best technical footballers were he'd include Lucas. If the boy can take a stronghold on matches a little more then he'll be a really useful player.

MyOpinionIsFact
3-9-08, 17:10
Means nothing if he's not good enough for the Prem, Does my head in if 'SO CALLED FANS' stick up for players just because we have them when simply they are not good enough!, whats he done since we have signed him???? NOTHING!

TheGoldenSkyIsHere
3-9-08, 17:55
Lucas seems to be the player who splits opinion the most. He is a very reliable due to his calm style and accurate passing. Even though he never had a good performance and was played out of position against Villa I don't think he made a poor pass in the entire match.

I don't see how people can think Jay Spearing is better than him. Maybe if Lucas shaved his head bald and looked a bit meaner it would change your minds :rolleyes:

torreselnino
3-9-08, 18:59
people don't like lucas because his pass and move style of football doesn't look great in a side that currently has no ******* movement. So everytime lucas gets the ball and makes a run, none of them are awarded and the offense remains stagnant. If lucas played for Arsenal he would be touted as one of the bright young talents in world football but he plays for a static liverpool side at the moment.

Lucas if a good player with the potential to be great. If we let him go it will be a huge mistake in my opinion.

Spearing has nothing on lucas. Hes just a local lad who tries really hard, hes the kuyt of midfield.

If lucas constantly attempted 20-40 yard passes like alonso and masch then he would too would be seen as a good choice for center midfield, but he almost always chooses the highest percentage pass that has the goal of moving the defense and opening them up.

KingLuisNo7
3-9-08, 19:14
Back to the topic.....

He still needs so more time in the gym. Put some meat on him.

barjv
3-9-08, 19:40
Have not been impressed by Lucas at all yet...

I think Plessis may be a much better player later...

Noone1
3-9-08, 20:14
I actually thought that Lucas looked stronger, and at times a bit quicker, against Villa than he did in any match last season. I only remember him looking silly getting pushed off the ball one time where as last season it would happen a few times per match. It was hard to tell though because the ball ws bypassing the midfield for a lot of the match.

GoatApocalypse
3-9-08, 20:17
If we had more players receptive to a pass-and-move game, we'd see a lot more of Lucas. He's one of the few players the understands how to play that way, and I'd love to see him get more games.

Liverdinner
3-9-08, 20:18
he's best short passer in the team by far and his movement of the ball is superb... and turn off CAPS LOCK you are not megatron...

agree very creative player-hope he progresses

SilverLining
3-9-08, 20:29
Think it's a good idea to toughen him up a bit, but then to be fair to Lucas i watched him in the olympics and he was one of Brazil's most consistant players. He also appeared strong on the ball and in the tackle, and also looked very strong in the air. Think he has improved a lot, and was one of Brazil's unsung heroes for the Bronze medal. He has good awareness, good passing, likes to run forward and be creative but can play a disciplined role in front of the back four.

DEANO-FAZ
12-9-08, 14:01
Does that force Rafas hand to play a youngster with Stevie Seemingly 'just' fit?

Who would you plump for?

LaBamba-Benitez
12-9-08, 14:03
erm masher, alonso etc?

Em-inLeam
12-9-08, 14:03
Does that force Rafas hand to play a youngster with Stevie Seemingly 'just' fit?

Who would you plump for?

Stevie is fit enough to play, else he wouldn't be in the squad.

We could play Benayoun in Stevie's place or Babel or even Keane.

RedKola
12-9-08, 14:05
Im not keen on Lucas anyway!

Although we have Masch & Xabi :)

Simo429
12-9-08, 14:06
if your looking for someone to fill the second striker role i would put yossi there

forget his poor performances out wide in the hole is where yossi thrives!

however no player should be in the squad if they cant manage 90 minutes

DEANO-FAZ
12-9-08, 14:06
erm masher, alonso etc?

So you think we'll play 4-4-2?


Stevie is fit enough to play, else he wouldn't be in the squad.

We could play Benayoun in Stevie's place or Babel or even Keane.

Stevie wont start the gane I dont think. I wouldnt risk him anyway,only bring him on if the game is in the balance.

Goalrush09
12-9-08, 14:19
Delighted he's not available....long may it continue!

DEANO-FAZ
12-9-08, 14:24
Delighted he's not available....long may it continue!

he aint that bad.

But he isnt great.

RickJC
12-9-08, 14:25
Gutted, I think he's a good player with great potential. Hope Rafa goes 4-2-3-1 with Keane up top and Yossi behind him.

AdY
12-9-08, 14:39
do people realise this bad player just started for Brazil in midweek? :rolleyes:

people complain we dont play good football but he would be perfect in a footballing side

LIVERBIRDMX
12-9-08, 14:56
I reckon we'll play a 4-2-3-1 with Gerrard ina free role starting from the right. Keane behind Torres with a lot of defensive duties, and Mascherano and Alonso in midfield.

To the delight of some, Kuyt will be lef out and brought on late after Keane's scored a brace!

Kno
16-9-08, 22:34
What does everyone on here make of Lucas and what do you think his goals should be for Liverpool this season?

He's still young and whilst I am aware we should not expect too much from him too soon - I still thought he would have shown us more by now.

He is the former captain of the Brazilian under-20 team, the youngest player to ever to receive Placar magazine's Bola de Ouro (Golden Ball), given to the best player in the Campeonato Brasileiro - something previously won by the likes of Zico, Romario, and Kaka.

When i heard all this stuff when he signed for us I thinking we had signed the world's number one wonderkid. i remember that milan, barca and everyone were supposed to be after him at the time.

He is meant to be a box to box midfielder with a keen eye for a good pass. He has not done badly for Liverpool but he has by no means set the world alight neither. I know its good to have players that try and keep things simple but I'd like to see him do alot more this year than simply pass sideways.

I feel bit tight saying this about him - cause like i said he has not done badly but the way i see it if your not having an effect on the game then the team is carrying you to an extent and we have players on the bench that should be in your place.

Hopefully he will come good - he is young so still has time. What are your guys opinions on him? am I being too hard on the lad?

ps. Tonight against Marsielle was by far his worse game for us I thought

Chris-Ninis
16-9-08, 22:36
He has potential. Doesn't get enough of a chance to play his most natural game in my opinion.

stano123
16-9-08, 22:37
Poor poor poor poor and even poor in the reserves.

Sunraged
16-9-08, 22:38
On borrowed time.

Sad, but unless he pulls his finger out it'll be the chop for George.

JoeRedLabo
16-9-08, 22:38
i heard what jim beglin saying on itv tonight about him becoming a liability in the 2nd half and i do think he was not helping by keep giving the ball away.

The thing with him is he isnt the best tackler or the best passer so am not to sure what his outstanding quality is.

PillBoxHat
16-9-08, 22:38
what on earth is Lucas' natural game though? i cant figure it out. is he a holding midfielder? is he a box to box midfielder? is he somebody we can play through? what on earth is he? :D

rutilus
16-9-08, 22:38
Haven't been overly impressed with him so far. He did play particularly badly tonight but overall he doesn't seem to do very much.

stano123
16-9-08, 22:38
i heard what jim beglin saying on itv tonight about him becoming a liability in the 2nd half and i do think he was not helping by keep giving the ball away.

The thing with him is he isnt the best tackler or the best passer so am not to sure what his outstanding quality is.

he is Brazilian, thats about it :D

M5BMW
16-9-08, 22:40
What does everyone on here make of Lucas and what do you think his goals should be for Liverpool this season?

He's still young and whilst I am aware we should not expect too much from him too soon - I still thought he would have shown us more by now.

He is the former captain of the Brazilian under-20 team, the youngest player to ever to receive Placar magazine's Bola de Ouro (Golden Ball), given to the best player in the Campeonato Brasileiro - something previously won by the likes of Zico, Romario, and Kaka.

When i heard all this stuff when he signed for us I thinking we had signed the world's number one wonderkid. i remember that milan, barca and everyone were supposed to be after him at the time.

He is meant to be a box to box midfielder with a keen eye for a good pass. He has not done badly for Liverpool but he has by no means set the world alight neither. I know its good to have players that try and keep things simple but I'd like to see him do alot more this year than simply pass sideways.

I feel bit tight saying this about him - cause like i said he has not done badly but the way i see it if your not having an effect on the game then the team is carrying you to an extent and we have players on the bench that should be in your place.

Hopefully he will come good - he is young so still has time. What are your guys opinions on him? am I being too hard on the lad?

ps. Tonight against Marsielle was by far his worse game for us I thought

kicked ***** out of Masch in the olympics but plays like rodney trotter when he plays for us

KOPGIRL1971
16-9-08, 22:42
poor ball control, poor passing, poor tackling, poor shooting, poor everything, and not just tonight. If we're going to keep him then he has to stay in the reserves for another season, because he's not ready yet to play in the first team

Batchy123
16-9-08, 22:42
I thought he was poor today very poor. But you can see the potential but he has to start delivering soon.

His passing is usually good but it was woeful tonight however the French lot did to us what we did to Manure on Saturday.

Lucas looked like a player who'd not played first team footy for a while. Bad game to play him really. Should have stuck with Alonso and played Lucas against Stoke.

charlesbukowski
16-9-08, 22:43
he was quite poor today but i've seen him producin brilliant performances against the likes of Inter Mailand to be fair. Everton late cameo was impressive too.

he isn't a holding midfielder in my opinion as he as someone said ain't the best tackler. i'm quite impressed by his passin, pace, game intelligence and tirelessness - his shooting ain't that bad too but his touch is sometimes lettin him down but i guess he is still adjustin to the english game, as he has to have somethin about him. [captain of Brazil U20, currently breakin in into the A Team]

Noone1
16-9-08, 22:43
Tonight he was poor. A lot of the time he plays like he is scared of both Rafa and his teamates.

AdY
16-9-08, 22:44
I can see him leaving and being a good player in spain or somewhere

Kennysgirl
16-9-08, 22:45
Always gets booked.
Stick him out on loan to Sunderland.

stano123
16-9-08, 22:46
I can see him leaving and being a good player in spain or somewhere

Lets hope so!

kopitecrash
16-9-08, 22:46
lucas...well he had crappy night. i think that hes a jack of all trades in that hes good at most things great at none really. but taking that into account, he will improve oodles over the coming years. i hope.

Fowi
16-9-08, 22:46
I think he's merely decent but my problem with him is that I don't see enough potential in him to further develop. He will gain experience and maybe a pound or two but that's it. Useful player to have in the squad but I don't think he will suddenly become an amazing player.

Sabretooth
16-9-08, 22:47
He had a really poor game tonight - he just didn't look comfortable either with the ball or when he was defending.

When we are playinging a team who are good at retaining posession Lucas seems to disappear - is not the best tackler and when in posession himself seems to be too eager to play a decisive pass so squanders posession.

He seems to prosper much more in games where teams allow us to dominate posession allowing him more time on the ball, but against teams like Marseille he is simply not strong enough to win posession and not composed enough when in posession.

His workrate is good but for me he is a little like Momo - bags of effort but precious little quality !

Needs to improve to remain at the club - someone should take him out and give him a good fish and chip supper occasionally to put some weight on that sledner carcass as well !

stano123
16-9-08, 22:48
lucas...well he had crappy night. i think that hes a jack of all trades in that hes good at most things great at none really. but taking that into account, he will improve oodles over the coming years. i hope.

Jack of what trades, master of none more like. :D

KevGibbo
16-9-08, 22:49
poor ball control, poor passing, poor tackling, poor shooting, poor everything, and not just tonight. If we're going to keep him then he has to stay in the reserves for another season, because he's not ready yet to play in the first team

Yep agree, I really don't understand what he offers this team. Can't tackle, can't pass very well, doesn't score many goals, doesn't create many goals, doesn't take set pieces...

I'm not sure if he's actually any better than Plessis or Spearing either. In an ideal world Lucas should have been the one to make way for Barry rather than Alonso.

jivago
16-9-08, 22:53
Very poor still not convinced by him - he is still young though but he has got to get a grip!

Beardsleyslovechild
16-9-08, 22:53
Have not been impressed with him at all. I'd give Jay Spearing the nod over him

stano123
16-9-08, 22:54
does anyone feel he gives more than MOMO?

Stevief79
16-9-08, 22:54
He has done nothing to impress me so far. If Alonso played instead tonight we would have done far better.

I am still struggling to see anything in his game that someone from our youth academy can't do. I would rather see Spearing get a chance, in fact I am quite confident that Spearing will turn out to be a better player long term. Lucas has looked distinctly average in the reserves when he has played for them. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think he will make it.

4thofficial
16-9-08, 22:55
looked good for brazil in the olympics but i think he looks a bit week although he tries hard. still gotta convince me he's good enough for our midfield

FelixDeSouser
16-9-08, 22:56
Like him, part of our future. Will become recognised on world stage in a couple of years.

M5BMW
16-9-08, 22:59
Like him, part of our future. Will become recognised on world stage in a couple of years.

in the moscow circus?

dappalfc
17-9-08, 09:35
i keep defending im but on last nighs showing roy keane should give us a call and take him of our hands please

Em-inLeam
17-9-08, 09:38
does anyone feel he gives more than MOMO?

Nope..I said it at the time and I'll say it again, Momo on form is a much better player than Lucas on form and gives our side more.

lawgun
17-9-08, 09:39
Rafa seems to love him. It takes time to get ** game right. He hasn't had much first team opportunities so I can't really pass judgement yet.

I hope he's good!

RickJC
17-9-08, 09:40
Always liked Lucas, he's got potential but it wasn't his best game last night. After been away at the Olympics he will need time to train with the lads and get some game time and we will see improved performances, I expect to see him on the bench for Stoke but play against Crewe.

twentyyears
17-9-08, 09:42
not good enough

not sure why its taken until last night for most to realise

now wheres his biggest fan this morning:confused:

dreams-come-true
17-9-08, 09:43
Lucas comes across as being very lightweight. I know that is stating the obvious. But I would prefer my central midfielders to be quick (which he is), not easy to knock off the ball, and have a presence which is commanding. And to have a vision for where the opponents are going to attack us. Mascherano has this. Lucas needs to be able to play with the other Central Midfielder ..... and they need to gain an understanding amongst themselves as to who goes where at which situation. Lucas is only quick. I would like to see more of Plessis..... if Alonso gets rotated out.
Alonso would have been better last night.

RickJC
17-9-08, 09:52
Lucas comes across as being very lightweight. I know that is stating the obvious. But I would prefer my central midfielders to be quick (which he is), not easy to knock off the ball, and have a presence which is commanding. And to have a vision for where the opponents are going to attack us. Mascherano has this. Lucas needs to be able to play with the other Central Midfielder ..... and they need to gain an understanding amongst themselves as to who goes where at which situation. Lucas is only quick. I would like to see more of Plessis..... if Alonso gets rotated out.
Alonso would have been better last night.

Plessis needs to be loaned out for a year to get some first team football if he is to progress. I don't think Alonso would of been good last night, now this isn't a dig at Alonso as I did all my digging at him yesterday :D but L'OM are a fast team and Alonso would of been a sitting duck because lets face it he isnít a fast player. He might of been able to do some of his 'Hollywood passes' but L'OM would of done a lot more attacking us. Once Lucas gets some game time he'll be better, you'll see. On another note I'd really like it if someone would shave his hair off! :D

twentyyears
17-9-08, 09:55
Plessis needs to be loaned out for a year to get some first team football if he is to progress. I don't think Alonso would of been good last night, now this isn't a dig at Alonso as I did all my digging at him yesterday :D but L'OM are a fast team and Alonso would of been a sitting duck because lets face it he isnít a fast player. He might of been able to do some of his 'Hollywood passes' but L'OM would of done a lot more attacking us. Once Lucas gets some game time he'll be better, you'll see. On another note I'd really like it if someone would shave his hair off! :D

you prefer the egg shell finish pal ;)

Em-inLeam
17-9-08, 10:01
Plessis needs to be loaned out for a year to get some first team football if he is to progress. I don't think Alonso would of been good last night, now this isn't a dig at Alonso as I did all my digging at him yesterday :D but L'OM are a fast team and Alonso would of been a sitting duck because lets face it he isnít a fast player. He might of been able to do some of his 'Hollywood passes' but L'OM would of done a lot more attacking us. Once Lucas gets some game time he'll be better, you'll see. On another note I'd really like it if someone would shave his hair off! :D

Lucas and Mascherano are fast players and they got overrun last night. Sometimes you need intelligence more than pace.

pipthered
17-9-08, 10:14
Lucas for last night showed why he isn't ready yet, he was off the pace, out of his depth and gave away silly fouls in dangerous areas because of his lack of experience. Once he was booked I was just waiting on the next rash tackle and the red which would have followed.

That said, I thought that because Masch was obviously tired, he was doing a bit more than he would usually with a fully fit midfield partner. Theres no doubting he will be a quality player in future but at the minute he needs to be nurtured. I would also have liked to have seen Jay Spearing feature as he adds a bit more bite and could, IMO, have done the same job as Lucas.

YNWA

Em-inLeam
17-9-08, 10:16
Lucas for last night showed why he isn't ready yet, he was off the pace, out of his depth and gave away silly fouls in dangerous areas because of his lack of experience. Once he was booked I was just waiting on the next rash tackle and the red which would have followed.

That said, I thought that because Masch was obviously tired, he was doing a bit more than he would usually with a fully fit midfield partner. Theres no doubting he will be a quality player in future but at the minute he needs to be nurtured. I would also have liked to have seen Jay Spearing feature as he adds a bit more bite and could, IMO, have done the same job as Lucas.

YNWA

Agreed about Jay Spearing. Spearing can also dribble and go forward effectively..he is a proper box to box midfielder.

pipthered
17-9-08, 10:21
Agreed about Jay Spearing. Spearing can also dribble and go forward effectively..he is a proper box to box midfielder.

Don't you agree about Lucas, Em-inleam?

Em-inLeam
17-9-08, 10:23
Don't you agree about Lucas, Em-inleam?

I do agree with regards to Lucas. He is a jack of all trades, but a master of non, as someone above pointed out.

He needs to play where Gerrard plays and is not suited to the defensive midfield role.

pipthered
17-9-08, 10:29
Em-inlean I think Spearing would give us a bit more in the middle, especially as other players were obviously tired, I also agree that his engine is fantastic and he reminds me of Sammy Lee in his prime, indeed I rate him more than I rate Plessis but yet he doesn't get the games.

YNWA

FelixDeSouser
17-9-08, 10:31
in the moscow circus?


You dont like him then ?

YOSSIbenniHUGHES
17-9-08, 10:31
what annoying about him is that he always has a constapeded look on his face

jamiechloe
17-9-08, 10:33
I think he's a more offensive player (oh god too much playing Madden09)..There were times last night when Masch was ahead of him and he was left to hold and i so dont think thats is game..His best games are when he's playing furthur up the pitch..ie the pre season games before the olympics

Em-inLeam
17-9-08, 10:34
Em-inlean I think Spearing would give us a bit more in the middle, especially as other players were obviously tired, I also agree that his engine is fantastic and he reminds me of Sammy Lee in his prime, indeed I rate him more than I rate Plessis but yet he doesn't get the games.

YNWA

Yep, he is definitely the best player in our youth/reserve sides... can't understand why he doesn't get more games.

We sold Guthrie who is similar to Lucas, yet I feel Guthrie may have been a better player for us.

I've not been too impressed by Lucas even though he's played well in a few games like Everton and Inter.

barjv
17-9-08, 10:35
Very average for LFC so far.

I was surprised to see him in the team last night.

I think Plessis can bring more to the team.

So I think he may be sold next year.

Em-inLeam
17-9-08, 10:39
I have to admit though, Lucas needs to play firther up the pitch to be at his best...

If we had kept Momo, then we would have Momo, Xabi and Masch all rotating for the 2 DM slots and Gerrard/Lucas fighting for a position just in front.

LiverpoolRealist
17-9-08, 11:01
Simply not good enough. I've said it for ages now and nothing will change my mind.

Masch looked tired yesterday but it didn't help because he was covering for Lucas.

An earlier poster said they can't see the potential in him and that they can't see improving into a great player. I agree totally. The age thing ain't working with me either. If he were to be a great player in the future then we would see glimses of his quality, and I for one haven't seen anything since he came here.

jezmd
17-9-08, 12:21
The bottom line is he is not a holding midfielder. His qualities are totally different to Masch's. He isn't comfortable infront of the back for hence the constant freekicks. His natural position is pushing forward to support the strikers, this is basically what he does for brazil, for whom he plays pretty well most of the time, he made the full senior squad for the World Cup qualies last week.

His problem is that he's basically competing with Stevie and now Keane for his favourite position. This was highlighted last night by a handfull of advanced runs into the box.

I would love to see him play his natural posiion in the Carling Cup, I really think he would shine

RedGlosTaffy
17-9-08, 12:31
Average in too many departments at the moment. Maybe a star of the future but he would benefit from being loaned out where he could shine a bit. At the moment he is fourth behind Gerrard, Torres and Alonso and will obviously be compared to whoever he is replacing when he plays.

Was our poorest performer last night by a country mile.

wysemark
17-9-08, 13:28
Lucas was shocking last night. I was hoping Rafa took him off - I was really worried he would get sent off.

Fowi
17-9-08, 13:30
The thing that keeps me in Lucas' corner is that some of the people, whose opinions I respect, think he has what it takes. I personally don't see it. As I said he is useful but he's not excellent and I don't think he will improve much.

purejam
17-9-08, 13:32
He has potential. Doesn't get enough of a chance to play his most natural game in my opinion.

I agree.

Judging him on last night's performance is unfair, because the majority of the team were average and we were outplayed as a team for most of the game.

I think he'll flourish and expect to see him score a handful of goals this season.

anfieldbound
17-9-08, 13:36
Get off Lucas back, he will be a great player for us no doubt about that.

YNWA

He-Him
17-9-08, 15:26
I think Rafa would have been extremely naive to have let Xabi go, without guaranteeing an equal or better player coming in as a replacement, and putting Lucas in.

Last night showed he isn't up to the demands of European football.

He has a great deal of potential, but I don't think we should risk playing him in big games.

He gave the ball away too cheaply last night (I know he wasn't the only one) and gave away too many cheap free-kicks.

He'd be best going on loan to a spanish or italian top flight side for more experience.

M5BMW
17-9-08, 15:31
You dont like him then ?

He doesnt offer anything mate! He is'nt as good as momo!

JonGrace2008
17-9-08, 15:36
I thought Rafa should have put on Alonso to calm us down and get some quality posession going.

Lucas hasn't got anything special about him, at best he is very average. Certainly not a DM as his tackling and work rate is not up to standard. Whenever I have seen him play he has been a liability and a lightweight, similar to Benayoun. I think Plessis, although he isn't amzing either does a much better job and is more of a physical presence in the heart of the midfield.

Paullfc1976
17-9-08, 15:38
He was poor yesterday, he looked out of touch and off the pace. I like Lucas think he is a decent player, but yesterday he was poor end of.

Malaidas
17-9-08, 15:59
I'd make a bridge out of him...

In all seriousness though, I just don;t think that he's shown anything impressive. Some matches hes performed ok, had the occasional good movement etc, but not seen anything particularly great from him. I admit though I've not seen every match so its probably not an entirely fair judgement.

Last night though, he was our worst player by a country mile. I was screaming at the TV for Raffa to sub him before he got sent off. To be honest I almost applauded the ref for carding him as he'd been asking for one all game and hoped it might force Raffa's hand. I know that using the last sub can be a bad idea, but I honestly think Raffa should have hauled him off and put Xabi on for the last 20 mins. I know that his lack of pace would have exposed us somewhat, but I cannot see how that would be any greater liability than having Lucas on the pitch. At least we might have got a few more decent balls forward and might have created a few more chances. Its not like our midfield pace was bothering them overmuch anyway.

Jury is still very much out on Lucas, but I'm not happy with what I've seen thuys far

stano123
17-9-08, 16:03
Get off Lucas back, he will be a great player for us no doubt about that.

YNWA

And the reasons for that are?

cookpassbabtridge
17-9-08, 16:06
He needs to be his own man and impact on games, not become Xabi Crabby MK2.

xabiheaven
17-9-08, 16:10
I personally think that we didn't need him and should have held onto sissoko instead. I don't see what he does. He is particulary good at anything.

Professor_of_Cunning
17-9-08, 16:19
He offers little in the way of attacking options, is a defensive non-entity, gives away needlees free-kicks and is about as poor a distributor of the ball as I have ever seen in a Liverpool shirt (well, second maybe to Momo). If there had been the odd occasion where the level of his performances had made me think 'yeah, we need him, he can win games', then I might be in favour of keeping him, but as it is he is nothing more than a liability. The only good game he has had for us was against Havant in the FA Cup, and my dear ol' grandma could have run the midfield that day.

We have Gerrard, Mascherano, Alonso, Plessis (who does actually show some potential) and Benayoun who can play inside, with the added option of Pennant (still needs to be given a chance on the right given our lack of width), Babel and now Riera on the wings. Throw in the fact that Keane can play deep, along with the up-and-coming pair of Pacheco and El Zhar (there are a host of other talented youngsters who are potential inclusions also), and you have to wonder why we need Lucas at all.

Off-load him, take the £4.50 and be happy that you're no longer paying his wages.

AlvaroRecoba
17-9-08, 16:19
He was rubbish last night, it's clear his best position is not defensive midfield though, attacking midfield would suit him more, difficult to get a game with Stevie there though.

Em-inLeam
17-9-08, 16:20
I personally think that we didn't need him and should have held onto sissoko instead. I don't see what he does. He is particulary good at anything.

Agreed. Sissoko atleast had something he was good at (winning the ball back and passing it simple). Lucas is just average on all fronts, but this could be because he isn't a DM and Sissoko suits the DM position more. Lucas may be cover for Gerrard, so he needs to player where Gerrard plays when we rest Stevie.

stano123
17-9-08, 16:25
Agreed. Sissoko atleast had something he was good at (winning the ball back and passing it simple). Lucas is just average on all fronts, but this could be because he isn't a DM and Sissoko suits the DM position more. Lucas may be cover for Gerrard, so he needs to player where Gerrard plays when we rest Stevie.

i was never a big fan of momo, because i didnt feel he was a good enough footballer, but he excelled in other areas, which Lucas doesnt excel in anything.

JonGrace2008
17-9-08, 17:56
Sissoko was terrible but good at winning the ball and chopping down players like trees with his legs for 90 minutes. :o

Lucas doesn't have any special abilities, no where near good enough for Liverpool. Either loan him out in Janurary or sell him to get some cash in. We have Plessis and Spearing if our CM's get injured, also Kuyt or Agger could play there if needed.

BadgersAnonymous
17-9-08, 17:59
poor ball control, poor passing, poor tackling, poor shooting, poor everything, and not just tonight. If we're going to keep him then he has to stay in the reserves for another season, because he's not ready yet to play in the first team

Spot on.

For someone captaining Brazil U20's how can he not do any of the above to a decent standard? Quite amazing when you think about it :p

JonGrace2008
17-9-08, 18:07
Spot on.

For someone captaining Brazil U20's how can he not do any of the above to a decent standard? Quite amazing when you think about it :p

To be fair, Brazil have been slowly slipping down the world rankings list year after year. He needs to sort his performances out big time.

hold51
17-9-08, 18:39
i thought last night he wasnt very good but i am sure said the same about stevie at his age in the odd game?:D

Snippes
17-9-08, 18:57
The problem with people here is that when Liverpool sign a 19 or 20 year old and he does not set the world on fire immediately, he is basically considered a bust and has no chance of ever being good enough for Liverpool, like ever. His game is dissected minute by minute after every single game, threads started and judgement passed on him with every bit of finality.

Why is it so hard to imagine that we might sign a younger player based on potential with the idea to give them a few games to fight through growing pains (none of which is meant to be pretty to look at necessarily)? When Rafa does not give young players a chance in the first team, you hear people question why he won't and why oh why we send them on loan or play them in the reserves (see Hobbs et co). When he plays them (El Zahr, Plessis, Insua, Lucas etc) and they don't put in something resembling MOTM or soon to be MOTM performance, then they are terrible, ship them out, get rid, they suck, have no chance of ever amounting to anything. :rolleyes: If that were the case, then we should never sign young players because only a handful of very special ones can live up to the high standards of some people here. Even Babel gets these threads often enough.

How many people either gave up on or undervalued Albert Reira before he arrived at Liverpool at age 25-26 still with a lot of sceptism? Its still early on but at least he is looking like a player who has finally matured and developed and come through on the other side. Am not saying we need to wait that long for some of our players and am not saying the will all work out but people really need to get a grip and stop casting eternal judgement on young players barely out of their teens and deciding already what they can or cannot do. It is ridiculously way too early to be doing that FFS!!

M5BMW
17-9-08, 19:14
The problem with people here is that when Liverpool sign a 19 or 20 year old and he does not set the world on fire immediately, he is basically considered a bust and has no chance of ever being good enough for Liverpool, like ever. His game is dissected minute by minute after every single game, threads started and judgement passed on him with every bit of finality.

Why is it so hard to imagine that we might sign a younger player based on potential with the idea to give them a few games to fight through growing pains (none of which is meant to be pretty to look at necessarily)? When Rafa does not give young players a chance in the first team, you hear people question why he won't and why oh why we send them on loan or play them in the reserves (see Hobbs et co). When he plays them (El Zahr, Plessis, Insua, Lucas etc) and they don't put in something resembling MOTM or soon to be MOTM performance, then they are terrible, ship them out, get rid, they suck, have no chance of ever amounting to anything. :rolleyes: If that were the case, then we should never sign young players because only a handful of very special ones can live up to the high standards of some people here. Even Babel gets these threads often enough.

How many people either gave up on or undervalued Albert Reira before he arrived at Liverpool at age 25-26 still with a lot of sceptism? Its still early on but at least he is looking like a player who has finally matured and developed and come through on the other side. Am not saying we need to wait that long for some of our players and am not saying the will all work out but people really need to get a grip and stop casting eternal judgement on young players barely out of their teens and deciding already what they can or cannot do. It is ridiculously way too early to be doing that FFS!!


He has potental but he aint ready for the first team!

MexicanPiggy
17-9-08, 20:26
Now, lets clear some things up for all you negatives;

Oh no!! wheres the finger gone!!!

Jetset
17-9-08, 20:35
... this could be because he isn't a DM and Sissoko suits the DM position more. Lucas may be cover for Gerrard, so he needs to player where Gerrard plays when we rest Stevie.

This is precisely why I think we saw a different side to Lucas last night that no-one wants to see again.

Essentially he is long term replacement for Gerrard and he is not comfortable playing the holding role as it is not in his nature. You can see similarities between him and Stevie in that respect just look at him in a England shirt alongside Lumplard when he is almost forced to play a holding role as dear old Frank wont track back and swap positions, as has been the plan of those two playing together.

Anyway, I know he had a bit of a shocker last night and I was also cringing at some of the clumsy tackles he was putting in but three things to remember:

1) he's 19yr old U21s Captain Brazilian - Got to be worth a shout :)

2) played out of position - we've all said how some players had bad games but it wasn't totally their fult as played out of position

3) He wears the Red shirt of LFC. - Unless he is sold then we need to get behind him. As a coach of U13s I see some players confidence drop when supporters start moaning about them if they make mistakes in a game. It's not good for their moral or development.

I have a feeling that Lucas will come good and be a great servant to the Liverpool cause! ;) :cool:

Desciple
17-9-08, 20:47
Bit of a crisp packet! drifts round the pitch but with no great purpose. Can't see where his future lies within the team Plessis looks a far better prospect.:o

Snippes
17-9-08, 20:47
He has potental but he aint ready for the first team!

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. He has had some good games in the first team - Inter Milan games come to mind - which suggests that he has the ability. But, I don't see any point in playing him in the academy or in the reserves - he just earned his first senior cap for Brazil so the kid is making his steps even if some of you don't like watching it happen.

I think he is not a player ready yet to be relied on in the first team for big games but I don't see the problem in the way Rafa is bringing him along slowly in certain games where he can get that experience and grow eventually into a more prominent role hopefully. But you are not going to find out by not letting him play. Lucas was rated by many top teams - still is...Rafa rates, Gerrard really seems to enjoy mentoring him and seems to think well of him....Dunga certainly does.

I trust the experts enough to wait just a little bit longer. He is young...he has many solid seasoned players ahead of him to learn from and who will bridge the gap till the young players come along so I don't see the problem...or the rush.

con1982
17-9-08, 20:51
don't think too much of lucas, he was awful last night again. watching the pre-season games the lad jay spearing stood out big time, in my eyes he's twice the player of lucas, so go on rafa give him a start against crewe.

ridster
17-9-08, 20:54
well he is suppose to have potential...probably not great playing as a holding midfielder because he just can't tackle that well...or thats what it looks like to me.

i think people build him up too much and we all have high expectations of him...certaintly not good enough to bench alonso yet.

EL-NINNI
17-9-08, 21:34
Momo 2

LiverpoolSuarezNo7
17-9-08, 21:41
Lets sell him.... And Kuyt.

Then we're a much better team without them.
I feel neither do enough for the team.

stano123
17-9-08, 21:44
Lets sell him.... And Kuyt.

Then we're a much better team without them.
I feel neither do enough for the team.

Kuyt has proved himself, at least in the CL and when needed he can put out a very good performances, maybe he is not the best striker or winger in the world but he can be an important player for Liverpool even if he is only a squad player.

Liverdinner
17-9-08, 21:45
i like the look of him when he is attacking-has an eye for a pass,good shot on him and good technique. I think he is playing a role to help the team rather than because its his natural position-maybe stifled by gerrard?

AS much as i want spearing to be good ,as a local lad, he doesnt have lucas' creativity and ability and in the future i feel he wont get close to lucas at all. Not because jay wont be good but because lucas will be brilliant

stano123
17-9-08, 21:48
i like the look of him when he is attacking-has an eye for a pass,good shot on him and good technique. I think he is playing a role to help the team rather than because its his natural position-maybe stifled by gerrard?

AS much as i want spearing to be good ,as a local lad, he doesnt have lucas' creativity and ability and in the future i feel he wont get close to lucas at all. Not because jay wont be good but because lucas will be brilliant

Ive yet to see him help the team very much, he looked more of a hindrance against the frogs