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the-las
24-12-08, 16:52
First of all the sheep in here were slating LUCAS, then the sheep started to back LUCAS because the sun shiners were getting upset!

Im confused which is it.

IMO Lucas came here Most Valuable player for Gremio in the Brazilian League and also with the tag of being the U20 captain.

All I ask, is can someone tell me a game in which you have seen lucas play and you that he has lived up to that tag.

Thank ask yourself, if he came through the youth and you knew nothing about him would you rate him. I think the answer is no.

Personally I like to use my eyes, and I dont think this boy is going to be a big liverpool player. Thats just my opinion - I wish the lad luck in the future and hope he proves me wrong. I'll give him his due, in one of the recent games he won a 50/50 ball and that was a first.

Discuss - Will LUCAS be a liverpool player of the future.

S-H-S
24-12-08, 16:54
Discuss - Is anybody else getting sick of Lucas threads?

the-las
24-12-08, 16:55
Discuss - Is anybody else getting sick of Lucas threads?

why are you commenting if your sick, just dont entertain the thread if you dont like it, instead of coming in and being a smart xxxx

-RedRafa-
24-12-08, 16:57
You had a thread on much the same thing yesterday so whats the point of this?

the-las
24-12-08, 17:01
You had a thread on much the same thing yesterday so whats the point of this?

Yesterday was about kuyt, babel and various youth matters. This is LUCAS specific and I'm keen for some substance to people in this forum, and the reasons for their opinions instead of the rolling bandwagon. Thats a fair one isnt it? Why dont we start with you red rafa - what are your thoughts on lucas?

stubbinslad
24-12-08, 17:02
Reminds me of Smicer who used run at an opposition player who had the ball as if he was going to knock him out of the ground but just slowed up in time for the player to pass it so that he didn't need to make the tackle. The nearest he came to making a tackle was a sneaky trip. Lucas seems to be a bit of a lightweight but only time will tell. He must be doing something right to be selected but a lot of it escapes me but I'll keep looking for it. You have to believe that the footy experts know what they are doing but I sometimes think 40.000 fans can't be wrong.

-RedRafa-
24-12-08, 17:07
My thoughts are, he gets alot of unecessary stick.

He hasn't done anything oustanding but at the same time not alot wrong either. He's miles ahead in terms of ability, of the player you want him replaced with (Spearing) it's just not funny.

He is a good player, good enough for us? Time will tell.

And for the record, I'm not one of these sheep you refer too, my opinion has remained the same throughout.

Rod19ers
24-12-08, 17:07
he would walk into aresnal's side at the moment, fabregas out and all that.

WindyShepherdHenderson
24-12-08, 17:07
OP is just angry that Lucas is miles better than his precious Spearing.

the-las
24-12-08, 17:16
OP is just angry that Lucas is miles better than his precious Spearing.

KRIZ, the fact I rate spearing is just my opinion, and you have clearly stated that you don't or that you don't think he deserves a chance whilst Lucas is at the club. But spearing aside, why don't you just answer this question. Tell me what LUCAS has brought to Liverpool football club that you think is good enough to keep the youth and reserves where they are. Please the stage is yours? Tell me what it is that you are seeing? Please im struggling maybe you can convince me or even educate me.

please go

WindyShepherdHenderson
24-12-08, 17:18
Tell me what LUCAS has brought to Liverpool football club that you think is good enough to keep the youth and reserves where they are. Please the stage is yours? Tell me what it is that you are seeing? Please im struggling maybe you can convince me or even educate me.

He's brought lovely flowing locks.

the-las
24-12-08, 17:18
and just for the record, he is not my spearing, he is your spearing also. If you consider yourself a supporter of the acadamy.

the-las
24-12-08, 17:19
He's brought lovely flowing locks.

just as i thought no substance - thank you.

Paullfc1976
24-12-08, 17:22
just as i thought no substance - thank you.
Get into the spirit of Christmas will ya and smile :)

the-las
24-12-08, 17:26
Get into the spirit of Christmas will ya and smile :)

Im off to a Winter wonder land later mate - im right on it!:)

Andy007
24-12-08, 17:27
Stevie G rates him. So I rate him.

TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast
24-12-08, 17:27
I quite like Lucas myself, but people are allowed to think he is a bad player without being accused of being sheep.

WindyShepherdHenderson
24-12-08, 17:27
just as i thought no substance - thank you.

He's rectifying this by using Pantene Increased Volume Conditioner.

Rod19ers
24-12-08, 17:28
as long as nobody calls spearing scouse again, ill be happy

Andyfagan
24-12-08, 17:29
These threads bore me. Basically, it's two unmovable opinions on a player: You have one side thinking Lucas is the worst thing ever and is just hindering the progression of our "youth" (for some reason, Lucas isn't considered a youth player); The other side protests that whilst Lucas hasn't made the best of impacts, he's shown some decent promise and gets way more criticism than he deserves.

Opinion 2 also tends to profess that Spearing (youth flavour of the month with Insua - for some reason Spearing's as good as Insua despite Insua having WAY more exposure to the first team) isn't anywhere near as good as Lucas and the reason he's not getting in the team is because Lucas is better than he is whilst still being about as young (1 or 2 years in it).

Then there's the old "you're only judging him because they're from X" argument. People have more faith in Spearing because of his accent and judge Lucas because he was the captain of Brazil. The crucial difference being a scouse accent doesn't make you good at football, but being the captain of a very, very good footballing side DOES.

Overall, players who deserve a chance get it WHEN POSSIBLE (Playing youngsters in "must-win" games can often end in catastrophe) and players who don't deserve a chance (due to events on or off the pitch, or due to players ahead of them in the pecking order) don't get one. To think Benitez is stupid enough to not play a player for no good reason is frankly insulting to Benitez.

So, thread over?

-RedRafa-
24-12-08, 17:32
These threads bore me. Basically, it's two unmovable opinions on a player: You have one side thinking Lucas is the worst thing ever and is just hindering the progression of our "youth" (for some reason, Lucas isn't considered a youth player); The other side protests that whilst Lucas hasn't made the best of impacts, he's shown some decent promise and gets way more criticism than he deserves.

Opinion 2 also tends to profess that Spearing (youth flavour of the month with Insua - for some reason Spearing's as good as Insua despite Insua having WAY more exposure to the first team) isn't anywhere near as good as Lucas and the reason he's not getting in the team is because Lucas is better than he is whilst still being about as young (1 or 2 years in it).

Then there's the old "you're only judging him because they're from X" argument. People have more faith in Spearing because of his accent and judge Lucas because he was the captain of Brazil. The crucial difference being a scouse accent doesn't make you good at football, but being the captain of a very, very good footballing side DOES.

Overall, players who deserve a chance get it WHEN POSSIBLE (Playing youngsters in "must-win" games can often end in catastrophe) and players who don't deserve a chance (due to events on or off the pitch, or due to players ahead of them in the pecking order) don't get one. To think Benitez is stupid enough to not play a player for no good reason is frankly insulting to Benitez.

So, thread over?

I beleive it is yes, well said.

Paullfc1976
24-12-08, 17:34
These threads bore me. Basically, it's two unmovable opinions on a player: You have one side thinking Lucas is the worst thing ever and is just hindering the progression of our "youth" (for some reason, Lucas isn't considered a youth player); The other side protests that whilst Lucas hasn't made the best of impacts, he's shown some decent promise and gets way more criticism than he deserves.

Opinion 2 also tends to profess that Spearing (youth flavour of the month with Insua - for some reason Spearing's as good as Insua despite Insua having WAY more exposure to the first team) isn't anywhere near as good as Lucas and the reason he's not getting in the team is because Lucas is better than he is whilst still being about as young (1 or 2 years in it).

Then there's the old "you're only judging him because they're from X" argument. People have more faith in Spearing because of his accent and judge Lucas because he was the captain of Brazil. The crucial difference being a scouse accent doesn't make you good at football, but being the captain of a very, very good footballing side DOES.

Overall, players who deserve a chance get it WHEN POSSIBLE (Playing youngsters in "must-win" games can often end in catastrophe) and players who don't deserve a chance (due to events on or off the pitch, or due to players ahead of them in the pecking order) don't get one. To think Benitez is stupid enough to not play a player for no good reason is frankly insulting to Benitez.

So, thread over?

Thread
Close
Now ;)

stano123
24-12-08, 18:25
not good enough and never will be IMO.

Mainstan
24-12-08, 18:28
not good enough and never will be IMO.
agreed 100% lucas is not good enough, how rafa paid 6million for him i will never know.

skrteltheturtle89
24-12-08, 18:34
IMO Lucas came here Most Valuable player for Gremio in the Brazilian League and also with the tag of being the U20 captain.

All I ask, is can someone tell me a game in which you have seen lucas play and you that he has lived up to that tag.

gave you a list yesterday but will do it again today since its nearly christmas and that apparently means i have to be nice :P

vs Chelsea in February
vs Everton in the 2-1 win where he came on for Gerrard
vs Inter Milan both legs
vs PSV

just picked the big games for you, theres more i can think of, but i think the importance of the games above speaks for itself.

you like spearing, i prefer lucas. difference is, i'm not sitting here claiming spearing has NEVER had a good game. i like spearing, but i think lucas is better.

oh and if lucas actually got to play in the role he played in at Gremio you might sit up and notice him a bit more, trouble is, theres a player at liverpool called Steven Gerrard, you might have heard of him? its pretty obvious to most people that right now that lucas will have to wait his turn because theres no way he will get picked over gerrard week in week out right now

torreselnino
24-12-08, 18:40
Stevie G rates him. So I rate him.

rates which one? lucas or spearing?

Anyways. If people moved away from this forum they would see that a lot of fans actually do rate Lucas. His abilities? well lets see:

Excellent 1-touch passing
Great Passing range (how many balls over 10 yards did he miss against arsenal, answer = 0)
Great movement and positioning
Quick decision making
Good in the tackle but reckless a lot of times. Gives away fouls on half of his challengers.
However he wins more tackles per 90m than any of our midfield players, including mascherano.
Has a good shot on him.

In short he has a lot of good abilities. He needs improving all the time and with his growing confidence he will start to impose himself on the games more.

People need to be wake up.

the-las
24-12-08, 18:42
Thread
Close
Now ;)

considering you've missed the point about the opinion you profess to know so much about shows your blinkered also sheep like view. It is not insulting to benitez to have an opinion, after all benitez also liked nunez, dossena, and vorinon - even the mighty benitez can sometimes make mistakes in judgement. So instead of goingon the judgement of others why don't you open your eyes, again a thread about Lucas has been hijacked at the expense of the boy spearing. And the underlying pain of this argument is the bitter non scousers who want to try and dress this up as a scouse crusade. Once again I'll spell it out because you are not listening, YOU ARE NOT AN AUTHORITY TO CLOSE THREADS WITH YOUR SUPERIOR FOOTBALLING KNOWLEDGE, THIS INCASE YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN IS A FOOTBALL FORUM, AND AS A PAYING MEMBER I AM WITHIN MY RIGHT EXPRESS "My" OPINION.

Snippes
24-12-08, 18:44
Yesterday was about kuyt, babel and various youth matters. This is LUCAS specific and I'm keen for some substance to people in this forum, and the reasons for their opinions instead of the rolling bandwagon. Thats a fair one isnt it? Why dont we start with you red rafa - what are your thoughts on lucas?

Yes, but your thread quickly disintegrated into a session of bashing Lucas and why Spearing is so much better than Lucas and should be playing ahead of him. So, what did you not cover there that you hope to cover in this one? Nothing appears to have changed...you still think Lucas is crap...you still think Spearing is a much better player than he is.....you are still wrong.

So what's the point???:rolleyes:

I find it funny how you refer to people who were slating him as sheep...am assuming you put yourself in that category. Your problem appears to be that Lucas is not scouser and therefore he either needs to be world class and streets better than the local lads to warrant being at this club otherwise we need to get rid. Its tough to talk sense into people like you who take this position...so I won't even bother. I will just say....Lucas is a very good young player with lots of potential and highly regarded by very well respected football minds around the world. He will struggle occasionally because that's what young players do, especially in top top teams like Liverpool where their performances are measured compared to world class players like Steven Gerrard. Anderson at united has had his ups and downs as well yet many here rate him highly. Lucas showed on Sunday that he does have what it takes and given time - time some of you won't accord him because some of you don't understand that apprenticeship is not always a work or art EVERY time- he could be a very good player for Liverpool in the future, absolutely.

the-las
24-12-08, 18:44
rates which one? lucas or spearing?

Anyways. If people moved away from this forum they would see that a lot of fans actually do rate Lucas. His abilities? well lets see:

Excellent 1-touch passing
Great Passing range (how many balls over 10 yards did he miss against arsenal, answer = 0)
Great movement and positioning
Quick decision making
Good in the tackle but reckless a lot of times. Gives away fouls on half of his challengers.
However he wins more tackles per 90m than any of our midfield players, including mascherano.
Has a good shot on him.

In short he has a lot of good abilities. He needs improving all the time and with his growing confidence he will start to impose himself on the games more.

People need to be wake up.

People can express there opinion, and you obviously are watching some games in your sleep.

KingStevieG8
24-12-08, 18:47
Achually, getting back to the discussion and not abusing people for writing in these columns, I think Lucas can be a Liverpool player of the future and just needs more games to prove it. With Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard and Plessis he's not gonna get many games to show you is he?

Andyfagan
24-12-08, 18:47
So instead of goingon the judgement of others why don't you open your eyes, again a thread about Lucas has been hijacked at the expense of the boy spearing. And the underlying pain of this argument is the bitter non scousers who want to try and dress this up as a scouse crusade.


KRIZ, the fact I rate spearing is just my opinion, and you have clearly stated that you don't or that you don't think he deserves a chance whilst Lucas is at the club. But spearing aside, why don't you just answer this question. Tell me what LUCAS has brought to Liverpool football club that you think is good enough to keep the youth and reserves where they are. Please the stage is yours? Tell me what it is that you are seeing? Please im struggling maybe you can convince me or even educate me.

Also, calm down. People won't take you seriously if you just start yelling at them.

the-las
24-12-08, 18:47
Yes, but your thread quickly disintegrated into a session of bashing Lucas and why Spearing is so much better than Lucas and should be playing ahead of him. So, what did you not cover there that you hope to cover in this one? Nothing appears to have changed...you still think Lucas is crap...you still think Spearing is a much better player than he is.....you are still wrong.

So what's the point???:rolleyes:

I find it funny how you refer to people who were slating him as sheep...am assuming you put yourself in that category. Your problem appears to be that Lucas is not scouser and therefore he either needs to be world class and streets better than the local lads to warrant being at this club otherwise we need to get rid. Its tough to talk sense into people like you who take this position...so I won't even bother. I will just say....Lucas is a very good young player with lots of potential and highly regarded by very well respected football minds around the world. He will struggle occasionally because that's what young players do, especially in top top teams like Liverpool where their performances are measured compared to world class players like Steven Gerrard. Anderson at united has had his ups and downs as well yet many here rate him highly. Lucas showed on Sunday that he does have what it takes and given time - time some of you won't accord him because some of you don't understand that apprenticeship is not always a work or art EVERY time- he could be a very good player for Liverpool in the future, absolutely.

I thought you got the point, hes had many chances jay spearing is promising why doesnt he get a chance now - what is wrong in that thinking? And what is this scouse thing????? is it becuase your not scouse - are you insecure????

the-las
24-12-08, 18:49
Also, calm down. People won't take you seriously if you just start yelling at them.

listen my friend, Im very clam - I have an opinion end of.

Mainstan
24-12-08, 18:49
rates which one? lucas or spearing?

Anyways. If people moved away from this forum they would see that a lot of fans actually do rate Lucas. His abilities? well lets see:

Excellent 1-touch passing
Great Passing range (how many balls over 10 yards did he miss against arsenal, answer = 0)
Great movement and positioning
Quick decision making
Good in the tackle but reckless a lot of times. Gives away fouls on half of his challengers.
However he wins more tackles per 90m than any of our midfield players, including mascherano.
Has a good shot on him.

In short he has a lot of good abilities. He needs improving all the time and with his growing confidence he will start to impose himself on the games more.

People need to be wake up.stevie rates him:D you would be amazed what players say when they have a camara in thier face,

Andyfagan
24-12-08, 18:49
People can express there opinion, and you obviously are watching some games in your sleep.

HAHAHAHAHA. How hypocritical is that sentence? :D

Andyfagan
24-12-08, 18:50
listen my friend, Im very clam - I have an opinion end of.

Really? Because the storm of capital letters at the end of the post I responded to tended to suggest otherwise.

the-las
24-12-08, 18:52
listen my friend, Im very clam - I have an opinion end of.

And as Ive stated before - I want LUCAS to be a success, and if he is great. But again IN MY OPINION he has not lived up to the hype. So why of why cant I say give some of our young players ago - infact there is a bit of an anti spearing brigade if anything, and as someone rightly pointed out technically he is not a scouser - he is from over the water (sorry wirral boys).

stano123
24-12-08, 18:52
at the end of the day, all this discussing is not gonna change a thing, only Rafa`s judgement will matter.

the-las
24-12-08, 18:53
HAHAHAHAHA. How hypocritical is that sentence? :D

hahahahah look at his post he said "people wake up" irony was lost in you.

Andyfagan
24-12-08, 18:54
hahahahah look at his post he said "people wake up" irony was lost in you.

I got the joke, but it still didn't make your sentence any less hypocritical. You can't say "I'M ALLOWED AN OPINION" and then try to belittle someone else's.

the-las
24-12-08, 18:57
I got the joke, but it still didn't make your sentence any less hypocritical. You can't say "I'M ALLOWED AN OPINION" and then try to belittle someone else's.

its been emotional happy xmas people - Top of the league, and opinions are what makes going the pub for a pint worth while - besides loose women!!

greetings to you all!

Jaythered
26-12-08, 12:57
I've been a Lucas basher previously. Guilty as charged. I had no clue what his style of play was and his ball retention was in question.

However, he has come on in leaps and bounds starting with his outstanding game against PSV. I now see his as a box to box midfielder that doesn't really enter or influence either penalty area. He is a ball winner, retainer and passing midfielder.

I also now see his as a genuine option in our midfield (so long as his current form at least continues or improves).

Well done to the lad. He went on record before the PSV game and stated boldly that he would repay Rafa's faith - and he is doing.

Respect.

SuperSpeedy
26-12-08, 15:28
From what I saw last season and early this season he wasnt ready to be in the team, I didnt rate him and I couldnt see the potential in him. Then two games happened where I thought he had really good games PSV and Arsenal. These two games have been enough for me to change my opinion.

Im slowly changing my mind about the player, nothing sheepish about it the only things that matter to me is how players perform on the pitch and the last two games he has been very good.

MickeyLove
26-12-08, 15:54
Trouble is some people say the lad cant pass a football....One of the go to phrases when Lucas is mentioned is how he always gives the ball away....Nothing is further from the truth. The lad is an excellent passer of the ball....

skrteltheturtle89
26-12-08, 16:04
Trouble is some people say the lad cant pass a football....One of the go to phrases when Lucas is mentioned is how he always gives the ball away....Nothing is further from the truth. The lad is an excellent passer of the ball....

did you know he also apparently also always passes the ball backwards? except he doesnt. i dont know where these myths come from but they seem to spread like wildfire, and then end up being used as arguments against his inclusion in the team :(

SupaBooby
26-12-08, 16:12
Lucas gives the Ball away far too much, IMO he is not good enough

MickeyLove
26-12-08, 16:21
Lucas gives the Ball away far too much, IMO he is not good enough

I think the last three games he has played for us, he pass completion rate has been the best of anyone in the team....

crobra
26-12-08, 17:01
did you know he also apparently also always passes the ball backwards? except he doesnt. i dont know where these myths come from but they seem to spread like wildfire, and then end up being used as arguments against his inclusion in the team :(


There are a lot things said about him that just aren't true, he passes the ball backwards all the time and gives it away all the time. But when people have thrown up his passes based on statistics, it show’s something completely different. I think it funny that people view him on the field like he is a chelsea or united player. They are blinded so much by their hate of him that if he loses one ball or passes once backwards, he's does it all the time. But the statistics have shown that if gives it away a lot than others on the team & passes also back a lot less than others. Hate blinds people I guess, but he's our player, so why do people hate him so much?? I really don't know!!

12thRED
26-12-08, 18:01
I like him though I think we haven't seen the best of him. Whether his current performances are confidence related I don't know? All I can say is this, if he gets a few more 'starting' games under his belt, hopefully we'll see his true potential.

skrteltheturtle89
26-12-08, 18:07
Whether his current performances are confidence related I don't know? All I can say is this, if he gets a few more 'starting' games under his belt, hopefully we'll see his true potential.

he said himself that his performance depends on his confidence. something about how he will only try certain things when he is confident that they will work. it just makes all the booing slightly counterproductive really.

Batchy123
26-12-08, 18:26
the-las

firstly a great name and an awesome band.

secondly I agree with you totally. The lad is not Liverpool class, he's the worst crab like midfield player since David Batty and he ain't got half the bite that lad had.

He doesn't like a tackle, his passes are so negative it's unture. He loses the ball in such silly areas and at times doesn't know were to be on the pitch.

I have also never seen a player give away so many silly freekicks in dangerous areas with stupid tackles. Well not since MOMO anyway.

The lad is very lightweight for his age and really should be filling out now. He has no strength and really should not be a first team regular. I would prefer Plessis than him.

To say he is a pish poor Alonso is a disgrace to Alonso.

We should offload him back to Brazil.

TheKnucklesOfAgger
12-9-12, 12:12
the-las

firstly a great name and an awesome band.

secondly I agree with you totally. The lad is not Liverpool class, he's the worst crab like midfield player since David Batty and he ain't got half the bite that lad had.

He doesn't like a tackle, his passes are so negative it's unture. He loses the ball in such silly areas and at times doesn't know were to be on the pitch.

I have also never seen a player give away so many silly freekicks in dangerous areas with stupid tackles. Well not since MOMO anyway.

The lad is very lightweight for his age and really should be filling out now. He has no strength and really should not be a first team regular. I would prefer Plessis than him.

To say he is a pish poor Alonso is a disgrace to Alonso.

We should offload him back to Brazil.

Goodness me, how times change.

klopp in
12-9-12, 12:24
Goodness me, how times change.

To be fair lucas was crap in his 1st year and was played when he should have been benched.

Ganymede
12-9-12, 12:32
Goodness me, how times change.

Why bump this thread?

Lucas was dire in his first 2 seasons so this thread was justified.

Sunraged
12-9-12, 12:45
First of all the sheep in here were slating LUCAS, then the sheep started to back LUCAS because the sun shiners were getting upset!

Im confused which is it.

IMO Lucas came here Most Valuable player for Gremio in the Brazilian League and also with the tag of being the U20 captain.

All I ask, is can someone tell me a game in which you have seen lucas play and you that he has lived up to that tag.

Thank ask yourself, if he came through the youth and you knew nothing about him would you rate him. I think the answer is no.

Personally I like to use my eyes, and I dont think this boy is going to be a big liverpool player. Thats just my opinion - I wish the lad luck in the future and hope he proves me wrong. I'll give him his due, in one of the recent games he won a 50/50 ball and that was a first.

Discuss - Will LUCAS be a liverpool player of the future.

The thing that confuses me the most about this is why on earth do you sound surprised that people have the capacity to change their minds?

Lucas is revered by far more important and knowledgeable footballing figures including Benitez, Dalglish and Rogers, and also including the last 3 managers of Brasil.

Now in response to your question about times when he's lived up to the tag, I'd say nearly every game over the last two seasons.

I suspect it is you that's never seen him play, either that, or you have the ridiculous belief that once you form an opinion about something, then under no circumstances can or will you change it.

DiscoDjimi
12-9-12, 12:54
The thing that confuses me the most about this is why on earth do you sound surprised that people have the capacity to change their minds?

Lucas is revered by far more important and knowledgeable footballing figures including Benitez, Dalglish and Rogers, and also including the last 3 managers of Brasil.

Now in response to your question about times when he's lived up to the tag, I'd say nearly every game over the last two seasons.

I suspect it is you that's never seen him play, either that, or you have the ridiculous belief that once you form an opinion about something, then under no circumstances can or will you change it.

That post was made 4 years ago.

WindyShepherdHenderson
12-9-12, 13:11
That post was made 4 years ago.

:D

Dont-Funk-With-The-Sakho
12-9-12, 13:17
That post was made 4 years ago.

:D

WirralRiddler
12-9-12, 13:23
To be fair lucas was crap in his 1st year and was played when he should have been benched.

But then he would not have developed into the players he is today, would he?

Batteries
12-9-12, 14:14
Return of the Mack.

Sunraged
12-9-12, 14:30
Haha, well that'll teach me to look at the date of posts :D

RiiseAgainst
12-9-12, 15:09
Why bump this thread?

Lucas was dire in his first 2 seasons so this thread was justified.

He really wasn't.

Themessangernr1
12-9-12, 15:12
He really wasn't.

he was

RiiseAgainst
12-9-12, 15:17
he was

He really, really wasn't.

Sunraged
12-9-12, 15:17
he was

He wasn't really, but interesting that when people think of Alonso, they don't remember his early time here when he was poor, more remember him for what he was before he left.

RiiseAgainst
12-9-12, 15:23
He wasn't really, but interesting that when people think of Alonso, they don't remember his early time here when he was poor, more remember him for what he was before he left.

Yup. People still go mental about Rafa wanting to get shot of him, but conveniently forget that he was a passenger for two seasons prior to it.

Sunraged
12-9-12, 15:26
Yup. People still go mental about Rafa wanting to get shot of him, but conveniently forget that he was a passenger for two seasons prior to it.

We all have 20/20 vision with hindsight eh?

RiiseAgainst
12-9-12, 15:35
We all have 20/20 vision with hindsight eh?

We sure do.

klopp in
12-9-12, 16:10
But then he would not have developed into the players he is today, would he?

shouldhave been in the reserves learning his game - not helping to lower our standards.

He was lucky rafa was manager and was stuborn about playing him.

WirralRiddler
12-9-12, 16:19
shouldhave been in the reserves learning his game - not helping to lower our standards.

He was lucky rafa was manager and was stuborn about playing him.

Only so much you can learn playing in the reserves though.

HellooThere
12-9-12, 18:28
shouldhave been in the reserves learning his game - not helping to lower our standards.

He was lucky rafa was manager and was stuborn about playing him.

We're all lucky Rafa was stuborn about playing him.

Paulite
12-9-12, 18:36
Why bump this thread?

Lucas was dire in his first 2 seasons so this thread was justified.

You know nothing about football.

klopp in
12-9-12, 19:50
We're all lucky Rafa was stuborn about playing him.

For 2 years we weren,t !!!

Oh-Bout-Tree-Fiddy
12-9-12, 20:30
Lucas was alright in his first season, he was quite good in his second season. He's really come on in the last two seasons but that doesnt mean what went before was awful. There was always promise of what was to come.....

SerRenely
12-9-12, 21:26
First of all the sheep in here were slating LUCAS, then the sheep started to back LUCAS because the sun shiners were getting upset!

Im confused which is it.

IMO Lucas came here Most Valuable player for Gremio in the Brazilian League and also with the tag of being the U20 captain.

All I ask, is can someone tell me a game in which you have seen lucas play and you that he has lived up to that tag.

Thank ask yourself, if he came through the youth and you knew nothing about him would you rate him. I think the answer is no.

Personally I like to use my eyes, and I dont think this boy is going to be a big liverpool player. Thats just my opinion - I wish the lad luck in the future and hope he proves me wrong. I'll give him his due, in one of the recent games he won a 50/50 ball and that was a first.

Discuss - Will LUCAS be a liverpool player of the future.

esl?

Andyfagan
13-9-12, 00:16
Ahem.

Looks like a certain somebody comes out of this thread quite well...

KopiteCal
13-9-12, 01:28
First of all the sheep in here were slating LUCAS, then the sheep started to back LUCAS because the sun shiners were getting upset!

Im confused which is it.

IMO Lucas came here Most Valuable player for Gremio in the Brazilian League and also with the tag of being the U20 captain.

All I ask, is can someone tell me a game in which you have seen lucas play and you that he has lived up to that tag.

Thank ask yourself, if he came through the youth and you knew nothing about him would you rate him. I think the answer is no.

Personally I like to use my eyes, and I dont think this boy is going to be a big liverpool player. Thats just my opinion - I wish the lad luck in the future and hope he proves me wrong. I'll give him his due, in one of the recent games he won a 50/50 ball and that was a first.

Discuss - Will LUCAS be a liverpool player of the future.
Fair play you have made yourself look like a total .... Lucas is now one of our best players if not our best.

RiiseAgainst
13-9-12, 02:57
Ahem.

Looks like a certain somebody comes out of this thread quite well...

You really did. At least someone did..

RoyStapleton
13-9-12, 05:12
He really wasn't.

He under-performed more often than not, but it took him a while to adapt, as the Brazilian league is very different to England.

Further to that, there was the additional pressure of having to compete with Xabi, Stevie & Mash.

All of the games Rafa started him, when he didn't really warrant a place, has served us extremely well over the past two seasons (with the exception of his injury).

Sunraged
13-9-12, 11:04
For 2 years we weren,t !!!

We were, as had it not been for sticking by him and playing him, we wouldn't have seen the beast of a player we see today.

Alpha Papa
13-9-12, 11:10
He wasn't really, but interesting that when people think of Alonso, they don't remember his early time here when he was poor, more remember him for what he was before he left.

Sorry. This is bull. Alonso was excellent from the moment he arrived and stayed pretty much that way for two years.

Admittedly, through injury and loss of form he was then weaker for two seasons (prior to his outstanding final year) but during this time we'd already seen his class between 2004-2006.

So I don't see any comparison with Lucas, who simply started poorly (and being played in a new position) but has gradually improved into the player he is today.

Sunraged
13-9-12, 11:16
Sorry. This is bull. Alonso was excellent from the moment he arrived and stayed pretty much that way for two years.

Admittedly, through injury and loss of form he was then weaker for two seasons (prior to his outstanding final year) but during this time we'd already seen his class between 2004-2006.

So I don't see any comparison with Lucas, who simply started poorly (and being played in a new position) but has gradually improved into the player he is today.

There you go then-I stand corrected.

You'll have to excuse me as it appears I and the majority of the forum need to acquire a golden retriever with a high visibility jacket.

Alpha Papa
13-9-12, 11:27
There you go then-I stand corrected.

You'll have to excuse me as it appears I and the majority of the forum need to acquire a golden retriever with a high visibility jacket.

Is this sarcastic? I don't think you'll find 'the majority' of the forum saying he was anything but excellent when he arrived.

Andyfagan
13-9-12, 11:46
There you go then-I stand corrected.

You'll have to excuse me as it appears I and the majority of the forum need to acquire a golden retriever with a high visibility jacket.

Alonso was excellent in his first and last seasons particularly.

It's the bit in the middle where he was really bad.

Sunraged
13-9-12, 12:04
Alonso was excellent in his first and last seasons particularly.

It's the bit in the middle where he was really bad.

I don't remember that Andrew, but can remember that it wasn't all sweet rosemary and Hollywood balls from Xabi until it was apparent that Rafa was thinking of moving him on.

Andyfagan
13-9-12, 12:07
I don't remember that Andrew, but can remember that it wasn't all sweet rosemary and Hollywood balls from Xabi until it was apparent that Rafa was thinking of moving him on.

There was a reason Liverpool fans chanted incessantly for him at that Lazio friendly mate. He was stellar in his first season when we won the CL.

gedzredz
13-9-12, 12:12
There was a reason Liverpool fans chanted incessantly for him at that Lazio friendly mate. He was stellar in his first season when we won the CL.

He was great in his first and last season with us but wasn't as bad in the other two as people make out, he had a couple of serious injuries if I remember correctly.

Andyfagan
13-9-12, 12:14
He was great in his first and last season with us but wasn't as bad in the other two as people make out, he had a couple of serious injuries if I remember correctly.

He did have injuries but he was also a complete liability at times. He had a certain penchant for giving away free kicks about 2 yards outside our box in those years.

Liverdinner
13-9-12, 12:31
Lucas is rubbish, get over it.

sizlack
13-9-12, 17:17
He was awful at first , last few years hes been better but still not going to set the prem on fire. average to good imo.

RiiseAgainst
13-9-12, 17:19
He was awful at first , last few years hes been better but still not going to set the prem on fire. average to good imo.

:D

You 'aven't got the first clue.

ceredred
13-9-12, 17:20
He was awful at first , last few years hes been better but still not going to set the prem on fire. average to good imo.Jesus H Christ :FP:

Just give it up will you.

gedzredz
13-9-12, 17:30
I never 'bashed' Lucas as such but at the begining I didn't think he was ready to play in the first 11 (at that time). He was rash in the tackle and gave away a lot of free kicks in dangerous areas, he also looked to be a little in awe of Gerrard at the time.

He has developed into a top defensive midfielder though and we really miss his energy and mobility when he's out.