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johnk199
30-1-09, 15:46
I think that it is very unfair the abuse that Lucas has been receiving here on the forums over the last months calling him utterly useless etc. He has not produced his best form for us at all. I think that given time he will improve drastically.
You dont become a bad player over night in my opinion all he needs is confidence. He was the captain of the Brasilian u21 team and has been capped for the full team. He is a player that is similar in some respects to Stevie in my opinion the best midfielder in the world. Stevie tipped him to shine and believes that he will be a top player, and we know Stevie very rarely comes out tipping people to be top players. If Gerrard has faith in his ability then we should too and show Lucas the support that he needs.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/archivedirs/news/2007/nov/2/N157552071102-1215.htm

Paulie2008
30-1-09, 15:50
Probalem is, he was never a good player for Liverpool was he. Its not like we know he'll reproduce some sort of form he used to produce.

smokintony
30-1-09, 15:52
You dont become a bad player over night in my opinion

A hell of a lot of players do when they come here though

Paulie2008
30-1-09, 15:53
A hell of a lot of players do when they come here though

lol

baggo
30-1-09, 15:54
Think he would do well in a slower league like Italy, will never make it here. If I was honestly going to sum him up id say he is not a very good passer unless its backwards and 10 yards, not a good tackler as he concedes a lot of free kicks and he cant shoot. Not really worth 6m + then. With time on the ball though maybe he has something cause you are not highly rated in Brazil for nothing.

Paulie2008
30-1-09, 15:56
Think he would do well in a slower league like Italy, will never make it here. If I was honestly going to sum him up id say he is not a very good passer unless its backwards and 10 yards, not a good tackler as he concedes a lot of free kicks and he cant shoot. Not really worth 6m + then. With time on the ball though maybe he has something cause you are not highly rated in Brazil for nothing.

And thats a pretty damning set of attributes to make it in Centre Midfield for Liverpool.

Ive said this many a time though, the Brazilian league is poor financially, they hype young players up so mugs like us will part with 5 odd mill. Its true.

But can anybody honestly say they ever saw him play much when he was in Brazil, i didnt im just speculating.

Certainly not up to the standards of George Lucas.

johnk199
30-1-09, 15:57
I know he has never really produced his best form for us, but all I'm saying is that a player does not turn bad overnight. I really believe that if he can build up his confidence then he will turn out to be a very good player. Gerrard sees him every day in training so I would trust him when he tips him to be a top quality player.

Paulie2008
30-1-09, 16:03
I know he has never really produced his best form for us, but all I'm saying is that a player does not turn bad overnight. I really believe that if he can build up his confidence then he will turn out to be a very good player. Gerrard sees him every day in training so I would trust him when he tips him to be a top quality player.

I doubt Gerrard thinks he's that good but, and training counts for tosh..

Have you ever seen him produce good form? Did anybody actually watch him play in Brazil.

He hasnt displayed any good centre mid attributes though, people rightly judge a player on what they've seen, not all this oh he'll come good cos he was highly rated in this league nonsense.

Hey I think everybody just wants us to win games, and I dont think he's been a part of us winning games. We need all our best players to play.

Thespian
30-1-09, 16:11
Other than Benayoun, Lucas was LFC's best player on the pitch against Wigan.

If you watched the full unedited game you would know that.

I-SEE-red-PEOPLE
30-1-09, 16:14
He's not as bad as he's made out, what happens is he gets criticized and then people come to his defence, then one side is galvanised into thinking he's crap and the other goes the complete opposite and says he's gonna be world class even thought the evidence points to neither. My opinion of him and its formed through watching him play for Liverpool and no one else is he's mediocre neither good nor bad. I lean more towards being disappointed when he starts than when he doesn't no passing, tackles made stats will change this, he needs to up his game. A lot of our players need to up their game though and he is unfairly singled out in that respect.

Target-Man
30-1-09, 16:33
Had it not been for that terrible challenge which gave Wigan the penalty, it would not have been hard to make a case for Lucas showing signs of developing into a useful first team player.

If you leave the penalty out of the calculation, he was generally accurate in passing, had some creative passes that showed good vision but just failed to reach their intended target, took part in many good moves and was defensively sound. Again, apart from the penalty he didn't give up more free kicks in dangerous positions than Mascherano, who is more of a defensive specialist.

As for the back passing, I think it's unfair to blame Lucas for having the discipline to do what in many cases is the right thing.

Often, a back pass is the right option and there are good reasons for that. The most obvious, of course, is that you don't lose the ball. But it is also safer than making a lateral pass, which is often easier to intercept and leaves the opposition attacking the seams of the defensive formation. If you intercept a straight back pass, it still leaves you with the intended target of that back pass right in front of you. And finally, the player who receives a back pass usually has more freedom to spot and review passing options further up the pitch.

Lucas' back passes may not be glamorous, but in most cases they are sound football moves, and he shouldn't take so much stick for them.

whiteij
30-1-09, 16:57
I know he has never really produced his best form for us, but all I'm saying is that a player does not turn bad overnight. I really believe that if he can build up his confidence then he will turn out to be a very good player. Gerrard sees him every day in training so I would trust him when he tips him to be a top quality player.

you say players dont turn bad overnight, but was lucas really anygood anyway?

hes probably just an average player, playing above his weight.

to be fair, when i watched the wigan game and he seemed to have a good game up unti that stupid tackle to give away the penalty.

Jamie30
30-1-09, 17:12
The problem with Lucas is thats he's clumbsy. He gives away too many free kicks. Against Everton in the league he came on gave away a free kick straight away which in turn led to them being in a good position where they won another free kick from which they scored from. He is a good player and will be a very good player, but i get nervous when he plays cause sometimes he's a liability on the pitch.

HuytonHuyton
30-1-09, 17:14
He played well vs Wigan. Gave away a silly penalty. Carra has been doing it for years, giving away silly pens and scoring own goals.

Get over it. If you went the games you would know Lucas did ok on Wed, he certainly played better than gerrard and Torres and babel.

Most arm chair fans only judge the game by what they see on match of the day or what the pundits have to say in the tabloids.

SuperJC23
30-1-09, 17:17
I know he has never really produced his best form for us, but all I'm saying is that a player does not turn bad overnight. I really believe that if he can build up his confidence then he will turn out to be a very good player. Gerrard sees him every day in training so I would trust him when he tips him to be a top quality player.

Gerrard isn't going to say "That Lucas fella, he's a bit crap isn't he!"

Lucas may come good with us, but I do not think he will be a world beater. At the moment he is good to have in our squad.

Lucas has been unfortunate that there has been so much panic on here. Panic leads to scapegoats - Lucas and Kuyt.

Pedagogue
30-1-09, 17:24
Ponderous on the ball, safe and square in the pass and sloppy in the tackle.

Lucas is the classic example of a player who needs a slower game with a more even pace in midfield.

He, like many Brazilians in the Prem before him, will find it devilishly difficult to bring the Latin Samba to the thunderous hooves of the fields of England:D

thomasd1
30-1-09, 17:27
Out of interest........ Anyone ever put Lucas in their FIFA 09 Liverpool team????

HuytonHuyton
30-1-09, 17:34
Out of interest........ Anyone ever put Lucas in their FIFA 09 Liverpool team????

Nope but I guess no one puts Insua or Hyypia in it either.

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 17:54
at first glance, lucas is the ideal scapegoat when the team does badly, or at least doesnt play as well as they could/should have done.

he gives away freekicks, he passes backwards and sideways sometimes, he rarely looks like a goal threat, he never seems to add anything.

except, he gives away about the same number of freekicks as the other midfield players. his fouls look sloppier, sure, but a foul is a foul, no matter how pretty you make it look.

yes he will play sideways and backwards balls sometimes. name me a player who doesnt. mascherano, alonso and gerrard all do, and they are the players he is meant to be attempting to emulate.

i'll agree, he has rarely looked like a goal threat so far this season. but its interesting to note that the games where he has looked most likely to score in are the games where he has played especially well (ie, newcastle, psv, wigan - ignoring the penalty obviously). playing well gives him the confidence to try to get a shot in. maybe if people got off his back he would be more confident/play better and maybe score. also, the games where he has scored (havant and waterlooville, crewe, pre season, the reserves final last season), he played in his natural position for a change.

he never seems to add anything is something i hear/read alot of people claiming. sure, he doesnt have that many assists (i think newcastle might be the only one?), but he is like xabi in the way that if you look at a pass or two before the assist, its his name that will pop up alot. he is also very good at finding the space on the pitch and exploiting it. watch him, he is usually near where the act is going on in miles of space, ready to do something with it as well. his game intelligence is also very good, he knows which balls to play and can usually pull them off as well. he does what he does, well, and without a fuss, it makes him seem worse than he is sometimes :(

my only problem with him is that he's a player who plays a simple, but not limited game, but is from a country world famous for its flashy football. he's not the stereotypical brazilian player, but is that really such a bad thing?

i'm not saying he is a worldbeater, sure he has his faults (sort out your tackling please!), but theres been a few games lately where he has been blamed for results not going the right way, when personally i've felt that certain untouchables should be holding their hands up and admitting they were as much/more to blame.

He-Him
30-1-09, 18:06
I think that given time he will improve drastically.
.

Time is something that players and managers don't have these days.

Especially with the mancs almost level with us with league titles.

Target-Man
30-1-09, 18:10
at first glance, lucas is the ideal scapegoat when the team does badly, or at least doesnt play as well as they could/should have done.

he gives away freekicks, he passes backwards and sideways sometimes, he rarely looks like a goal threat, he never seems to add anything.

except, he gives away about the same number of freekicks as the other midfield players. his fouls look sloppier, sure, but a foul is a foul, no matter how pretty you make it look.

yes he will play sideways and backwards balls sometimes. name me a player who doesnt. mascherano, alonso and gerrard all do, and they are the players he is meant to be attempting to emulate.

i'll agree, he has rarely looked like a goal threat so far this season. but its interesting to note that the games where he has looked most likely to score in are the games where he has played especially well (ie, newcastle, psv, wigan - ignoring the penalty obviously). playing well gives him the confidence to try to get a shot in. maybe if people got off his back he would be more confident/play better and maybe score. also, the games where he has scored (havant and waterlooville, crewe, pre season, the reserves final last season), he played in his natural position for a change.

he never seems to add anything is something i hear/read alot of people claiming. sure, he doesnt have that many assists (i think newcastle might be the only one?), but he is like xabi in the way that if you look at a pass or two before the assist, its his name that will pop up alot. he is also very good at finding the space on the pitch and exploiting it. watch him, he is usually near where the act is going on in miles of space, ready to do something with it as well. his game intelligence is also very good, he knows which balls to play and can usually pull them off as well. he does what he does, well, and without a fuss, it makes him seem worse than he is sometimes :(

my only problem with him is that he's a player who plays a simple, but not limited game, but is from a country world famous for its flashy football. he's not the stereotypical brazilian player, but is that really such a bad thing?

i'm not saying he is a worldbeater, sure he has his faults (sort out your tackling please!), but theres been a few games lately where he has been blamed for results not going the right way, when personally i've felt that certain untouchables should be holding their hands up and admitting they were as much/more to blame.

Hear, hear!!!

I'm getting tired of the blame game, and he seems like to convenient a scape goat, IMO. The poor games he has had have been when most of the team was poor as well. Against Wigan, he had a good game except for one bad tackle. IMO, if the rest of the team had played as well as he did for much of the match, that tackle would not have had the decisive impact it did, 'cause we would have been up by two or three goals.

JOHNBARNES-LEFT-FOOT
30-1-09, 18:11
lucas will improve........when hes playing in scotland for falkirk or kilmarnock.....:rolleyes:

hes out of his depth playing for us....sorry but true:rolleyes:

bagaante
30-1-09, 18:18
stevie said murphy was one of the best trainers around - then rafa got rid, so lets not read into who stevie judges too much in training

both carra and gerrard have tipped a few english youngsters, but again its not down to them its down to rafa who gets played (and largely down to him how they develop)
lucas may in a few years be a good player , but right now hes not, and so he shouldnt play untill hes either more confident (if that is the problem), or technically better (if thats the problem), if he is that great in training then it could be a nervous thing why he doesnt perform well, in which case he needs to get over it or he will never be as good as people think he will be

a lot of the problem with lucas is down to the fact that we have english youngsters who have been trying to break through for years and unable to, then rafa spends so much on a foreign player who isnt much (if any) better than the likes of spearing, the jury is very much out on lucas, but he did have an ok game against wigan before the silly tackle, hopefully he will learn from it, in the meantime he needs to work hard in training and i hope not to see him again untill after weve put a good few wins together on the board (ie playing our best team week in week out)

JOHNBARNES-LEFT-FOOT
30-1-09, 18:21
stevie said murphy was one of the best trainers around - then rafa got rid, so lets not read into who stevie judges too much in training

both carra and gerrard have tipped a few english youngsters, but again its not down to them its down to rafa who gets played (and largely down to him how they develop)
lucas may in a few years be a good player , but right now hes not, and so he shouldnt play untill hes either more confident (if that is the problem), or technically better (if thats the problem), if he is that great in training then it could be a nervous thing why he doesnt perform well, in which case he needs to get over it or he will never be as good as people think he will be

a lot of the problem with lucas is down to the fact that we have english youngsters who have been trying to break through for years and unable to, then rafa spends so much on a foreign player who isnt much (if any) better than the likes of spearing, the jury is very much out on lucas, but he did have an ok game against wigan before the silly tackle, hopefully he will learn from it, in the meantime he needs to work hard in training and i hope not to see him again untill after weve put a good few wins together on the board (ie playing our best team week in week out)

hopefully lucas will laugh at carra in training like song did and then carra will take lucas "out"....:D

TorresIsGod
30-1-09, 18:21
Lucas is an awful player.......

Target-Man
30-1-09, 18:27
Lucas is an awful player.......

Why?

HeyMacaReina
30-1-09, 18:30
I like Lucas as a player but agree that he hasn't had as much positive impact this season as I would have liked. That can also be said of some far more experienced players we have too though.

He is still only 22 and I think will improve as he gets more experience in the Premier League.

MickeyLove
30-1-09, 18:34
Good passer of the ball....Trouble is, he is a central midfielder who cant tackle....Will never prosper in that position until he sorts that out and I think it is too late to do anything about it....

gary182
30-1-09, 18:38
Nope but I guess no one puts Insua or Hyypia in it either.


Out of interest........ Anyone ever put Lucas in their FIFA 09 Liverpool team????

lol. some might throw in hyppia

JOHNBARNES-LEFT-FOOT
30-1-09, 18:39
Why?

u havent seen him play have u???:rolleyes:

ORLY-YARLY
30-1-09, 18:43
Good passer of the ball....Trouble is, he is a central midfielder who cant tackle....Will never prosper in that position until he sorts that out and I think it is too late to do anything about it....

Nor is he very strong on the ball.

Target-Man
30-1-09, 18:49
u havent seen him play have u???:rolleyes:

I have seen him play in all the matches he had played this season, and I can't see why people think he is bad. I agree, he isn't great, but I see potential and some decent performances in between.

IMO, a lot of posters have just made up their minds to blame him as soon as they see his name on the team sheet. They watch him, and they take every little mistake he makes as a confirmation that he's bad, while they neglect every good play he makes.

Now, I am not saying that he's a great tackler, but I think part of the general judgment that he's can't tackle has to do with him not sliding into tackles.

I suspect, without being certain, that we would find that he wins a fair number of balls by making blocks and standing tackles. That's what many Brazilian midfielders and defenders prefer to do, because it doesn't leave you lying down if you miss the tackle, and you have instant control if you make it.

Mean looking, sliding tackles: none
Ball won: I'm not so sure...

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 18:50
u havent seen him play have u???:rolleyes:

maybe s/he watched any of these games:

chelsea at stamford bridge last season
everton at goodison last season
inter milan both legs last season
newcastle st james' park this season
psv away this season
wigan away this season bar the penalty

^ they are the obvious games that immediately spring to mind when i think of good lucas performances for liverpool. i know there is more.

Target-Man
30-1-09, 18:53
Nor is he very strong on the ball.

But neither is Mascherano, and nobody seems to blame him for anything. He gave away a free kick against Wigan that almost lead to them winning the match, and he ran himself into trouble several times by holding up the ball and then making a turn straight into an opponent.

I think Mascherano is a good player and still better than Lucas, but many of the things you blame Lucas for could just as well be said about him. But he's not our favourite scapegoat. Yet.

ORLY-YARLY
30-1-09, 18:58
But neither is Mascherano, and nobody seems to blame him for anything. He gave away a free kick against Wigan that almost lead to them winning the match, and he ran himself into trouble several times by holding up the ball and then making a turn straight into an opponent.

I think Mascherano is a good player and still better than Lucas, but many of the things you blame Lucas for could just as well be said about him. But he's not our favourite scapegoat. Yet.

The thing is though, Mascherano on his game is world class. Without a doubt. He hasn't been on top form this season and he will be the first to admit that.

But Lucas, doesn't seem to have much to his game at all, and one of shortcomings is his strength.

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 19:00
The thing is though, Mascherano on his game is world class. Without a doubt. He hasn't been on top form this season and he will be the first to admit that.

But Lucas, doesn't seem to have much to his game at all, and one of shortcomings is his strength.

agree about masch, so does he if you read the article on the homepage.

yes, lucas can be weak on the ball, but thats something that can be ironed out. he can do the basics well enough, its just a matter of him building on what he's got.

by the way, he actually won a fair few of his challenges on wednesday.

ORLY-YARLY
30-1-09, 19:02
agree about masch, so does he if you read the article on the homepage.

yes, lucas can be weak on the ball, but thats something that can be ironed out. he can do the basics well enough, its just a matter of him building on what he's got.

by the way, he actually won a fair few of his challenges on wednesday.

I can't really say much more about Lucas to be honest. I'm just not a fan and can't see him developing into anything but a half decent player.

Kloppageddon
30-1-09, 19:08
I think that it is very unfair the abuse that Lucas has been receiving here on the forums over the last months calling him utterly useless etc. He has not produced his best form for us at all. I think that given time he will improve drastically.
You dont become a bad player over night in my opinion all he needs is confidence. He was the captain of the Brasilian u21 team and has been capped for the full team. He is a player that is similar in some respects to Stevie in my opinion the best midfielder in the world. Stevie tipped him to shine and believes that he will be a top player, and we know Stevie very rarely comes out tipping people to be top players. If Gerrard has faith in his ability then we should too and show Lucas the support that he needs.

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/archivedirs/news/2007/nov/2/N157552071102-1215.htm

The real issue is that he should never have been played in the must win games when there are several better options = i.e Rafa's decision. However, that tackle in the box was seriously stupid. He would have been better jockeying the guy if he was unsure about getting the ball cleanly. Also, he should be able to pass a ball if he is a professional footballer- not much evidence of that the other night. Come to think of it, his shot was pathetic as well.

JOHNBARNES-LEFT-FOOT
30-1-09, 19:13
maybe s/he watched any of these games:

chelsea at stamford bridge last season
everton at goodison last season
inter milan both legs last season
newcastle st james' park this season
psv away this season
wigan away this season bar the penalty

^ they are the obvious games that immediately spring to mind when i think of good lucas performances for liverpool. i know there is more.

maybe he/she has seen him play and has watched liverpool long enough to see and know a dud............

piechnik/tanner/stewart/dicks/babb/kennedy/dundee/leonardsen/diouf/ diao/cheyrou/palletta/lucas.......

i will give u that he played well against everton last season when he came on and played alright against the worst newcastle team i have seen for 20 years but what has he done in any of those other games u mention???

and earning £30,000 a week or more u have to expect alot more than what your suggesting......

even in your most positive opinion he has played alright in 6 games.......??

and conceded a penalty to lose us 2 points in one of them??

yeah your right lucas has great potential........:rolleyes:

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 19:14
The real issue is that he should never have been played in the must win games when there are several better options = i.e Rafa's decision. However, that tackle in the box was seriously stupid. He would have been better jockeying the guy if he was unsure about getting the ball cleanly. Also, he should be able to pass a ball if he is a professional footballer- not much evidence of that the other night. Come to think of it, his shot was pathetic as well.

"he should be able to pass a ball if he is a professional footballer- not much evidence of that the other night."

at the risk of coming across quite rude, are you for real? did you watch the game? penalty aside, lucas was one of the best liverpool players on the pitch and he had a pretty high pass %

MickeyLove
30-1-09, 19:17
Nor is he very strong on the ball.

I have seen some improvement on that, and it can develop more with training, but yes at the moment it is not good enough....His shooting needs to be better too....

ORLY-YARLY
30-1-09, 19:19
"he should be able to pass a ball if he is a professional footballer- not much evidence of that the other night."

at the risk of coming across quite rude, are you for real? did you watch the game? penalty aside, lucas was one of the best liverpool players on the pitch and he had a pretty high pass %

You seem to have the blinkers on when it comes to Lucas. If you look at the big picture you would realise that we have Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano ahead of him in the pecking order.

Now unless Lucas proves himself better than any of the 3 players above, his appearances are going to be limited to substitute appearances and the odd game here and there whilst others are rested/rotated.

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 19:19
maybe he/she has seen him play and has watched liverpool long enough to see and know a dud............

piechnik/tanner/stewart/dicks/babb/kennedy/dundee/leonardsen/diouf/ diao/cheyrou/palletta/lucas.......

i will give u that he played well against everton last season when he came on and played alright against the worst newcastle team i have seen for 20 years but what has he done in any of those other games u mention???

and earning £30,000 a week or more u have to expect alot more than what your suggesting......

even in your most positive opinion he has played alright in 6 games.......??

and conceded a penalty to lose us 2 points in one of them??

yeah your right lucas has great potential........:rolleyes:

i never said they are the only games he has played well in. the games i named are the ones where he had stand out performances. he plays such a simple game that his contribution can easily be overlooked.

its not just me that thinks he is going to be good, its rafa, gerrard, dunga, ronaldinho, half the top spanish/italian managers. by all means doubt my opinion, but i think they know what they are talking about

ORLY-YARLY
30-1-09, 19:21
i never said they are the only games he has played well in. the games i named are the ones where he had stand out performances. he plays such a simple game that his contribution can easily be overlooked.

its not just me that thinks he is going to be good, its rafa, gerrard, dunga, ronaldinho, half the top spanish/italian managers. by all means doubt my opinion, but i think they know what they are talking about

I think Lucas' game would be a lot more suited to both those leagues.

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 19:23
You seem to have the blinkers on when it comes to Lucas. If you look at the big picture you would realise that we have Gerrard, Alonso and Mascherano ahead of him in the pecking order.

Now unless Lucas proves himself better than any of the 3 players above, his appearances are going to be limited to substitute appearances and the odd game here and there whilst others are rested/rotated.

i know about the other three. i know they are ahead of him. and i know he is fourth choice, because he is fourth best out of the CMs at the moment.

yes he is limited to cameo sub appearances and the occasional game. i accept that. thats all he should be getting. i've never denied that.

i just think he's better than most people make him out to, and will be alot better in the future, but only if he does get the gametime he needs so he can improve.

ORLY-YARLY
30-1-09, 19:25
i know about the other three. i know they are ahead of him. and i know he is fourth choice, because he is fourth best out of the CMs at the moment.

yes he is limited to cameo sub appearances and the occasional game. i accept that. thats all he should be getting. i've never denied that.

i just think he's better than most people make him out to, and will be alot better in the future, but only if he does get the gametime he needs so he can improve.

Well realistically, its going to be a good few years before any of the players I mentioned start going downhill. Will Lucas be happy to wait?

stano123
30-1-09, 19:26
Every time Lucas comes onto the pitch the team deteriorates, we lose something, it was even apparent against Preston when Alonso got injured.

He can pass the ball but he does not contain any other ability to influence the game in our league, in Spain or Italy he would work, but he is too slow and weak to be effective in the Premiership IMO.

Lucas didnt have a bad game against Wigan apart from the pen, but the shape of the team is lost and he cant dictate the play unlike Alonso who makes the team tick.

Target-Man
30-1-09, 19:29
I think Lucas' game would be a lot more suited to both those leagues.

So we should sell him and watch him pick us apart in the CL, I guess.

I'm sorry but I can easily imagine us a year from now regretting that we sold him to a Spanish club and asking ourselves how we could let him go.

I think the main reason we don't see the best of him has little to do with the league and a lot more to do with the competition in our midfield. I am not suggesting that he deserves to be picked ahead of Gerrard, Alonso or Mascherano, but I think we have seen solid improvement whenever he has been given regular starts. Last season he showed he could adjust to the pace of this league when given the chance, and I think we would see a similar improvement if he was given the chance again on a regular basis.

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 19:30
I think Lucas' game would be a lot more suited to both those leagues.

perhaps. he said so himself when he signed that it would have been an easier choice for him but he wanted the challenge.

stano123
30-1-09, 19:32
So we should sell him and watch him pick us apart in the CL, I guess.

I'm sorry but I can easily imagine us a year from now regretting that we sold him to a Spanish club and asking ourselves how we could let him go.

I think the main reason we don't see the best of him has little to do with the league and a lot more to do with the competition in our midfield. I am not suggesting that he deserves to be picked ahead of Gerrard, Alonso or Mascherano, but I think we have seen solid improvement whenever he has been given regular starts. Last season he showed he could adjust to the pace of this league when given the chance, and I think we would see a similar improvement if he was given the chance again on a regular basis.

we wouldnt miss him, why would we regret getting rid of a poor player who doesnt suit our league, lots of players have failed here for the obvious reasons.

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 19:35
we wouldnt miss him, why would we regret getting rid of a poor player who doesnt suit our league, lots of players have failed here for the obvious reasons.

i dont think anyone could honestly claim that they wouldnt notice the (negative) difference when plessis or spearing had to play instead.

and he hasnt failed here. he might not have made it yet, but he hasnt failed.

Mainstan
30-1-09, 19:38
lucas is for me the worst midfield player that has played for lfc since rafa took over, how rafa continues to play him all the time only god knows, if he gets the sack i hope lucas offers him a shoulder to cry on. :mad:

ORLY-YARLY
30-1-09, 19:39
So we should sell him and watch him pick us apart in the CL, I guess.

I'm sorry but I can easily imagine us a year from now regretting that we sold him to a Spanish club and asking ourselves how we could let him go.

I think the main reason we don't see the best of him has little to do with the league and a lot more to do with the competition in our midfield. I am not suggesting that he deserves to be picked ahead of Gerrard, Alonso or Mascherano, but I think we have seen solid improvement whenever he has been given regular starts. Last season he showed he could adjust to the pace of this league when given the chance, and I think we would see a similar improvement if he was given the chance again on a regular basis.

Jeez. If a player isn't good enough, you sell him. I can't imagine Lucas ever being a player to pick apart teams.

stano123
30-1-09, 19:40
i dont think anyone could honestly claim that they wouldnt notice the (negative) difference when plessis or spearing had to play instead.

and he hasnt failed here. he might not have made it yet, but he hasnt failed.

Ive not seen how Spearing would handle the premiership, but he is definitely more direct than Lucas, but thats not the point, we dont have to get rid of Lucas and not replace him with another midfielder and we have enough personnel to cover him without Plessis or Spearing.

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 19:43
Ive not seen how Spearing would handle the premiership, but he is definitely more direct than Lucas, but thats not the point, we dont have to get rid of Lucas and not replace him with another midfielder and we have enough personnel to cover him without Plessis or Spearing.

lucas is the cover for mascherano, alonso and gerrard at the moment. clearly if he went, somone else would take on this role, ie spearing or plessis. probably plessis since he was on the bench when lucas played vs stoke.

lucas is more subtle than spearing. doesnt mean spearing would achieve more.

if you feel so strongly about lucas, what are your thoughts on plessis?

Target-Man
30-1-09, 19:45
we wouldnt miss him, why would we regret getting rid of a poor player who doesnt suit our league, lots of players have failed here for the obvious reasons.

'Cause if we sold him, I'm not so sure we would be seeing a "poor player" a year from now.

I don't know where this "doesn't suit our league" comes from. Yes, occasionally there are players that don't live up to the expectations when they get here, but when the premier league started it was basically assumed that no foreign player, let alone an Italian, Spanish or South American, would ever suit our league. Look at how they thrive now, even such lightweights as Zola and Juninho!

There have been few, who never adjusted, like Veron at Man Utd and Chelsea or Emerson at Boro, but for over a decade now it's been the British players who had to adjust to a league suddenly filled with players with skill on the ball. Look at how every Championship team has to strengthen their squads with foreign skill players to survive in the Premier league if they are promoted.

HeyMacaReina
30-1-09, 19:46
lucas is the cover for mascherano, alonso and gerrard at the moment. clearly if he went, somone else would take on this role, ie spearing or plessis. probably plessis since he was on the bench when lucas played vs stoke.

lucas is more subtle than spearing. doesnt mean spearing would achieve more.

if you feel so strongly about lucas, what are your thoughts on plessis?

For me Lucas is a far better player than Plessis.

Mainstan
30-1-09, 19:47
Ive not seen how Spearing would handle the premiership, but he is definitely more direct than Lucas, but thats not the point, we dont have to get rid of Lucas and not replace him with another midfielder and we have enough personnel to cover him without Plessis or Spearing.think its clear we need to buy another box to box midfielder as lucas is clearly not good enough for this club, even spearing comeing off the bench is a better option than lucas.

stano123
30-1-09, 19:47
lucas is the cover for mascherano, alonso and gerrard at the moment. clearly if he went, somone else would take on this role, ie spearing or plessis. probably plessis since he was on the bench when lucas played vs stoke.

lucas is more subtle than spearing. doesnt mean spearing would achieve more.

if you feel so strongly about lucas, what are your thoughts on plessis?

Plessis is very poor

stano123
30-1-09, 19:48
'Cause if we sold him, I'm not so sure we would be seeing a "poor player" a year from now.

I don't know where this "doesn't suit our league" comes from. Yes, occasionally there are players that don't live up to the expectations when they get here, but when the premier league started it was basically assumed that no foreign player, let alone an Italian, Spanish or South American, would ever suit our league. Look at how they thrive now, even such lightweights as Zola and Juninho!

There have been few, who never adjusted, like Veron at Man Utd and Chelsea or Emerson at Boro, but for over a decade now it's been the British players who had to adjust to a league suddenly filled with players with skill on the ball. Look at how every Championship team has to strengthen their squads with foreign skill players to survive in the Premier league if they are promoted.


The pace and physical presence is the problem, not his nationality

JOHNBARNES-LEFT-FOOT
30-1-09, 19:50
i never said they are the only games he has played well in. the games i named are the ones where he had stand out performances. he plays such a simple game that his contribution can easily be overlooked.

its not just me that thinks he is going to be good, its rafa, gerrard, dunga, ronaldinho, half the top spanish/italian managers. by all means doubt my opinion, but i think they know what they are talking about

rafa thought palletta,dossena and zongales had potential and were going to be good too....:rolleyes:

im not getting personal here mate by having a constant dig at you but i really dont see what he brings to the team at all.........:confused:

his passing is poor,his heading is poor his positional sense is poor and his tackling is clumsy........i really do think hes as bad as salif diao.......

and after the newcastle game i actually thought he"d played ok....

Mainstan
30-1-09, 19:52
i thought jimmy bullard would have been a good replacement for lucas. hes good on the ball ok passer and hits a great free-kick. for five million not bad.

ORLY-YARLY
30-1-09, 19:56
i thought jimmy bullard would have been a good replacement for lucas. hes good on the ball ok passer and hits a great free-kick. for five million not bad.

Jimmy Bullard is on another level compared to Lucas. Its just a shame he is 30 and cost £5million.

To be fair though, why would Bullard come here to sit on the bench.

Good player, but not right for us.

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 19:58
rafa thought palletta,dossena and zongales had potential and were going to be good too....:rolleyes:

im not getting personal here mate by having a constant dig at you but i really dont see what he brings to the team at all.........:confused:

his passing is poor,his heading is poor his positional sense is poor and his tackling is clumsy........i really do think hes as bad as salif diao.......

and after the newcastle game i actually thought he"d played ok....

hey, i'm not saying that rafa is immune to bad signings (although i dont think dossena is actually that bad).

but say this was a totally unknown player we were talking about and you hear that rafa rates him, gerrard rates him, the brazilian national coach rates him, a well known brazilian player rates him, along with several coaches of the major spanish/italian teams. you wouldnt dismiss them as all being wrong would you? and i dont think they are/were.

i'm sorry, you are entitled to your own opinion, but i honestly cant see how he could be accused of bad passing, being weak in the air or having bad positional sense.

Mainstan
30-1-09, 19:59
Jimmy Bullard is on another level compared to Lucas. Its just a shame he is 30 and cost £5million.

To be fair though, why would Bullard come here to sit on the bench.

Good player, but not right for us.at 30 we still could have got 2/3 good years from him. remember gary mac everyone says he was to old.

ORLY-YARLY
30-1-09, 19:59
at 30 we still could have got 2/3 good years from him. remember gary mac everyone says he was to old.

Gary Mac cost nothing though.

Target-Man
30-1-09, 20:00
The pace and physical presence is the problem, not his nationality

Fair enough, I agree that he has seemed a little lightweight in some situations - mostly in the Rugby League match against Stoke - but I think his physical presence is improving.

Look, I agree that he is not ahead of Alonso or Mascherano, but I see him as decent and improving, and I think people judge him too harshly. I think people start out with a negative mindset when they see his name on the team sheet, and they work themselves into a frenzy over it. If you have negative expectations, you tend to notice the things that confirm your expectations much more.

I admit, that I sometimes go a little too much in the opposite direction. I am actually a little bit excited when Lucas starts, because I believe in his potential and I feel there is improvement. And I suffer as much as anyone when we lose. Against Wigan I was very happy with Lucas' performance - until that fatal moment.

I would not be overly worried if an injury to Alonso or Mascherano meant that Lucas had to start most matches for an extended period, because I believe that he will be able to improve with the challenge and the chance to get a regular run in the team.

Yankfield
30-1-09, 20:01
I can see Lucas going the same way as Momo...lots of potential, lots of other clubs after him, popular with the fans in his early days,clumsy tackling, costly positioning faults, lack of technique, loss of confidence.........failure to live up to promise...........transfer to Italy [hopefully making us a profit too]

Mainstan
30-1-09, 20:03
i know, the point i was making was bullards age would not have been a problem here. we could have even swaped lucas for him and bit of cash maybe.

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 20:03
I can see Lucas going the same way as Momo...lots of potential, lots of other clubs after him, popular with the fans in his early days,clumsy tackling, costly positioning faults, lack of technique, loss of confidence.........failure to live up to promise...........transfer to Italy [hopefully making us a profit too]

you realise that rafa had a chance to make a profit on lucas less than a year after buying him and he said no?

Target-Man
30-1-09, 20:04
I can see Lucas going the same way as Momo...lots of potential, lots of other clubs after him, popular with the fans in his early days,clumsy tackling, costly positioning faults, lack of technique, loss of confidence.........failure to live up to promise...........transfer to Italy [hopefully making us a profit too]

You forgot to add: "regular starter for a championship contender".

Mainstan
30-1-09, 20:04
you realise that rafa had a chance to make a profit on lucas less than a year after buying him and he said no?ha-ha bet he would take any offers now.

Target-Man
30-1-09, 20:06
ha-ha bet he would take any offers now.

Be careful what you say. You know Rafa can be stubborn and he could decide to start Lucas for the rest of the season just to spite you. ;)

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 20:07
ha-ha bet he would take any offers now.

doubt it. you think rafa would say what he said about lucas post fulham/pre psv if he didnt have a long term plan for him?

sell him now and they'll live to regret it.

Mainstan
30-1-09, 20:08
Be careful what you say. You know Rafa can be stubborn and he could decide to start Lucas for the rest of the season just to spite you. ;)at hes job expense not mine.:rolleyes: i got fifa 2009 and hes even crap on there.:D

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 20:11
at hes job expense not mine.:rolleyes: i got fifa 2009 and hes even crap on there.:D

sure its lucas thats bad on fifa 09? cause i played with him and won every time. :D

Mainstan
30-1-09, 20:13
doubt it. you think rafa would say what he said about lucas post fulham/pre psv if he didnt have a long term plan for him?

sell him now and they'll live to regret it. is he gonna get any better here. doubt it cut losses and quick. by brothers a taxi driver can sort out a lift for him.

Mainstan
30-1-09, 20:15
sure its lucas thats bad on fifa 09? cause i played with him and won every time. :Dlol was he celebrating like this:scarf when he scored. :rolleyes:

stano123
30-1-09, 20:15
Fair enough, I agree that he has seemed a little lightweight in some situations - mostly in the Rugby League match against Stoke - but I think his physical presence is improving.

Look, I agree that he is not ahead of Alonso or Mascherano, but I see him as decent and improving, and I think people judge him too harshly. I think people start out with a negative mindset when they see his name on the team sheet, and they work themselves into a frenzy over it. If you have negative expectations, you tend to notice the things that confirm your expectations much more.

I admit, that I sometimes go a little too much in the opposite direction. I am actually a little bit excited when Lucas starts, because I believe in his potential and I feel there is improvement. And I suffer as much as anyone when we lose. Against Wigan I was very happy with Lucas' performance - until that fatal moment.

I would not be overly worried if an injury to Alonso or Mascherano meant that Lucas had to start most matches for an extended period, because I believe that he will be able to improve with the challenge and the chance to get a regular run in the team.

True,I have never really rated Lucas, but if he played well i always say, but i truly believe he is not good enough if we want to win games, i felt the same with other players like Momo and Murphy, i like to see a player who i can trust who is when played doesnt become a liberty, i want more quality not potential.

Maybe the fact that when he does play, its often with the fringe players, which will inevitably weaken the team anyway, but it doesnt hide the fact that when given the chance he is not consistent enough to take us to the next level.

United have average players who enter their team, but they know their role and they fit in seamlessly, but with Lucas that doesnt happen.

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 20:17
is he gonna get any better here. doubt it cut losses and quick. by brothers a taxi driver can sort out a lift for him.

you honestly dont think he can get better? i know he can. if anything, his biggest problem right now is consistency. if he could play the way he played at newcastle every time he played then alot more people might like him/rate him. but consistency comes with regular game time, so its a catch 22 :(

Mainstan
30-1-09, 20:17
True,I have never really rated Lucas, but if he played well i always say, but i truly believe he is not good enough if we want to win games, i felt the same with other players like Momo and Murphy, i like to see a player who i can trust who is when played doesnt become a liberty, i want more quality not potential.

Maybe the fact that when he does play, its often with the fringe players, which will inevitably weaken the team anyway, but it doesnt hide the fact that when given the chance he is not consistent enough to take us to the next level.

United have average players who enter their team, but they know their role and they fit in seamlessly, but with Lucas that doesnt happen.another youngster with potential. :crying

Mainstan
30-1-09, 20:21
you honestly dont think he can get better? i know he can. if anything, his biggest problem right now is consistency. if he could play the way he played at newcastle every time he played then alot more people might like him/rate him. but consistency comes with regular game time, so its a catch 22 :( oh please, newcastle were dreadful that day. even my girlfriend could have played well against them that day. what about all the other games hes played in and been rubbish.

skrteltheturtle89
30-1-09, 20:27
oh please, newcastle were dreadful that day. even my girlfriend could have played well against them that day. what about all the other games hes played in and been rubbish.

newcastle played badly, but were made to look even worse by an excellent display from liverpool, lucas included.

lucas hasnt been rubbish in many games. average maybe. but not rubbish.

Target-Man
30-1-09, 20:29
True,I have never really rated Lucas, but if he played well i always say, but i truly believe he is not good enough if we want to win games, i felt the same with other players like Momo and Murphy, i like to see a player who i can trust who is when played doesnt become a liberty, i want more quality not potential.

Maybe the fact that when he does play, its often with the fringe players, which will inevitably weaken the team anyway, but it doesnt hide the fact that when given the chance he is not consistent enough to take us to the next level.

United have average players who enter their team, but they know their role and they fit in seamlessly, but with Lucas that doesnt happen.

Good reply!

I think it will probably take an extended run in the first team to change our respective positions on Lucas, but I like having a good discussion on it. I am very optimistic that he can develop into a quality player, and although you don't share that feeling, I am sure that you would share my happiness if it happened, just as I would share your frustration if it didn't.

On a different note, I do think that it's sometimes a problem to our talented young players, that they often only get to start in a team that is full of other fringe players. I think you learn more from being on the pitch with experienced quality players.

stano123
30-1-09, 22:50
Good reply!

I think it will probably take an extended run in the first team to change our respective positions on Lucas, but I like having a good discussion on it. I am very optimistic that he can develop into a quality player, and although you don't share that feeling, I am sure that you would share my happiness if it happened, just as I would share your frustration if it didn't.

On a different note, I do think that it's sometimes a problem to our talented young players, that they often only get to start in a team that is full of other fringe players. I think you learn more from being on the pitch with experienced quality players.

i agree, there is a fine line when you bring youngsters through, i think we are at the stage where we can compete for the big trophies and maybe we should use the league and FA cup as a way to bring this potential through without harming our top priorities. In the future when our squad its at the level of say United, our fringe players will be on a higher level and we can really compete on all fronts, but at the moment we are still short, and the financially we maybe for a while to come.

molbysgut
30-1-09, 22:54
Real question is: has he stopped a reserve lad coming through in that position?

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 10:06
Real question is: has he stopped a reserve lad coming through in that position?

if the reserve lad is jay spearing then no.

Benny-Noons-Ghost
31-1-09, 10:14
oh please, newcastle were dreadful that day. even my girlfriend could have played well against them that day. what about all the other games hes played in and been rubbish.

He's been much, much better these last couple of months - you can see he's gaining confidence. Look at the match against Wigan, he was box-to-box for most of the match, made some excellent passes and was unlucky with a few more.

Lucas has great vision, he's a very good passer of the ball, got alot of energy and is very good in the air. I still can't understand why people say he's not good in the air :confused: one of the best I've seen considering how small he is.

-Stig-
31-1-09, 10:20
Lucas is average


THE END

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 10:24
He's been much, much better these last couple of months - you can see he's gaining confidence. Look at the match against Wigan, he was box-to-box for most of the match, made some excellent passes and was unlucky with a few more.

Lucas has great vision, he's a very good passer of the ball, got alot of energy and is very good in the air. I still can't understand why people say he's not good in the air :confused: one of the best I've seen considering how small he is.

the weak in the air argument is one of many arguments about lucas i really really dont get. a good example of him being strong in the air is just before THAT pass against newcastle. reina hits the ball up the field, its high in the air, lucas wins the ball in the air, heads it BACKWARDS to gerrards feet, gerrard passes to lucas and we all know what happens next.

Benny-Noons-Ghost
31-1-09, 10:41
the weak in the air argument is one of many arguments about lucas i really really dont get. a good example of him being strong in the air is just before THAT pass against newcastle. reina hits the ball up the field, its high in the air, lucas wins the ball in the air, heads it BACKWARDS to gerrards feet, gerrard passes to lucas and we all know what happens next.

&I'd say he probably wins about 85% of the headers he goes up for :confused:

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 10:46
&I'd say he probably wins about 85% of the headers he goes up for :confused:

which isnt bad for a guy of his height who is supposedly weak on the ball, considering most of the balls he wins in the air are contested by opposition players.

ah well, i guess its another of those myths. maybe it will change slightly. like the back-pass myth has now turned into the passing sideways myth. one day it will be always passing forward :D

Target-Man
31-1-09, 10:52
which isnt bad for a guy of his height who is supposedly weak on the ball, considering most of the balls he wins in the air are contested by opposition players.

ah well, i guess its another of those myths. maybe it will change slightly. like the back-pass myth has now turned into the passing sideways myth. one day it will be always passing forward :D

For reasons explained in my first post in this thread (I think), I would actually prefer him to pass backwards rather than sideways in most situations.

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 11:03
For reasons explained in my first post in this thread (I think), I would actually prefer him to pass backwards rather than sideways in most situations.

i know which post you mean. the one where you said forwards/sideways isnt always the best option? trust me, i've tried arguing that point more than once, but all people see is negative play :(

personally, i would agree that sometimes backwards can be better.

Target-Man
31-1-09, 11:13
i know which post you mean. the one where you said forwards/sideways isnt always the best option? trust me, i've tried arguing that point more than once, but all people see is negative play :(

personally, i would agree that sometimes backwards can be better.

I've seen coaches argue that passing backwards actually can serve an attacking purpose, because the player receiving the backwards pass is in a better position to read the play and find a free man further up the pitch. It makes sense to me.

Many target men - and strikers in general - never make a forward pass. If you're under pressure, I don't think that passing the ball back to Alonso or Gerrard is such a bad option.

The only time when I get frustrated with backpasses is when we continue to pass it all the way back to Reina, only for him to punt it high and long.

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 11:17
I've seen coaches argue that passing backwards actually can serve an attacking purpose, because the player receiving the backwards pass is in a better position to read the play and find a free man further up the pitch. It makes sense to me.

Many target men - and strikers in general - never make a forward pass. If you're under pressure, I don't think that passing the ball back to Alonso or Gerrard is such a bad option.

The only time when I get frustrated with backpasses is when we continue to pass it all the way back to Reina, only for him to punt it high and long.

yeah its the equivalent of taking a step back and seeing whats going on.

i agree with what you've said. what annoys me is that its the likes of lucas and kuyt who get pulled up for it, but gerrard, alonso, masch etc all do it themselves.

Target-Man
31-1-09, 11:24
yeah its the equivalent of taking a step back and seeing whats going on.

i agree with what you've said. what annoys me is that its the likes of lucas and kuyt who get pulled up for it, but gerrard, alonso, masch etc all do it themselves.

Which brings us back to the point that what you notice about a player has a lot to do with your expectations. Nobody has any negative expectations about Gerrard, few have about Alonso and Masch, while many are already thinking "no score draw" the moment they see Kuyt' of Lucas' name on the team sheet.

I admit that I am very "glass half full" about Lucas, I do see that some of his critics have some very legitimate points, and I have a lot of time for them. It's the "he's crap" crowd that annoys me.

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 11:36
Which brings us back to the point that what you notice about a player has a lot to do with your expectations. Nobody has any negative expectations about Gerrard, few have about Alonso and Masch, while many are already thinking "no score draw" the moment they see Kuyt' of Lucas' name on the team sheet.

I admit that I am very "glass half full" about Lucas, I do see that some of his critics have some very legitimate points, and I have a lot of time for them. It's the "he's crap" crowd that annoys me.

yup, i posted something about that a while back, pre-newcastle i think. it basically said that people look for fouls, and look for the bad things and generally are negative because he is replacing one of alonso/masch. if i find it, i'll post the link, i think its in a massive thread someplace, but it basically says what you summed up above.

i know exactly what you mean, i'm more than happy to engage in sensible debate about the guy, but when someone says he's crap and wont change his stance regardless of the evidence otherwise then it gets more than a little annoying.

i dont think there's anyone who thinks he is playing the best he can at the moment. its just interesting to see which people are willing to be patient. there was alot of humble pie after newcastle and psv, and even to some extent after wednesday, so maybe people are opening their eyes a little?

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 11:51
i've found it:

http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showpost.php?p=1390487&postcount=25

:)

Target-Man
31-1-09, 12:06
i've found it:

http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showpost.php?p=1390487&postcount=25

:)

Good post. I agree completely - just like I, in general, agree with much of what you post. :scarf

baglanboy
31-1-09, 12:28
I cannot believe that there are people out there who believe that the sign of a quality player is passing the ball forwards regardless of who it goes to and where and that passing diagonally or backwards is a sign of weakness

this whole post regards the Lucas negatives is a joke to be honest at least the Spearing is a God argument hasnt been trotted out too much.

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 13:08
I cannot believe that there are people out there who believe that the sign of a quality player is passing the ball forwards regardless of who it goes to and where and that passing diagonally or backwards is a sign of weakness

this whole post regards the Lucas negatives is a joke to be honest at least the Spearing is a God argument hasnt been trotted out too much.

For me it's interesting because the very things attributed to Lucas' passing weakness are the same things that Mancs rave about Scholes for. He is careful with his passes to ensure he doesn't conceed possession unless it's to play someone through on goal. I am not for a second saying Lucas is as good as Paul Scholes, my arguement is that there are very few players in world football that play with this sort of intelligence. We potentially have one in Lucas who has some problems within his game. If we can iron these out then we have one hell of a player on out hands.....on the cheap too!

baglanboy
31-1-09, 14:30
For me it's interesting because the very things attributed to Lucas' passing weakness are the same things that Mancs rave about Scholes for. He is careful with his passes to ensure he doesn't conceed possession unless it's to play someone through on goal. I am not for a second saying Lucas is as good as Paul Scholes, my arguement is that there are very few players in world football that play with this sort of intelligence. We potentially have one in Lucas who has some problems within his game. If we can iron these out then we have one hell of a player on out hands.....on the cheap too!

No No you havent got the hang of this have you

Lucas is rubbish - wont get better, may as well sell him to a Conference side, thats his level

Spearing on the other hand is a Scouse Legend already with more skill than Kaka , more passion for LFC than Carra/Dalglish & Shankly put together and its only that dastardly, know nothing, goateed Spanish bloke standing in the way of greatness by deliberately sabotaging his career and our club by destroying us from the inside and he goes to bed in replica Man Yoo pyjamas to i heard off a bloke who knows a bloke.;)

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 14:32
No No you havent got the hang of this have you

Lucas is rubbish - wont get better, may as well sell him to a Conference side, thats his level

Spearing on the other hand is a Scouse Legend already with more skill than Kaka , more passion for LFC than Carra/Dalglish & Shankly put together and its only that dastardly, know nothing, goateed Spanish bloke standing in the way of greatness by deliberately sabotaging his career and our club by destroying us from the inside and he goes to bed in replica Man Yoo pyjamas to i heard off a bloke who knows a bloke.;)

oh my god, i thought you were being serious at first, then i read 'more skill than Kaka' :D

spearing is a decent player but if he was from anywhere other than merseyside then people wouldnt go on about him half as much

tuffty76
31-1-09, 14:34
awful player....... one i wont be sad to see go.

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 14:38
No No you havent got the hang of this have you

Lucas is rubbish - wont get better, may as well sell him to a Conference side, thats his level

Spearing on the other hand is a Scouse Legend already with more skill than Kaka , more passion for LFC than Carra/Dalglish & Shankly put together and its only that dastardly, know nothing, goateed Spanish bloke standing in the way of greatness by deliberately sabotaging his career and our club by destroying us from the inside and he goes to bed in replica Man Yoo pyjamas to i heard off a bloke who knows a bloke.;)

It's like you turned on a light switch in my mind. THank you baglanboy :D

baglanboy
31-1-09, 14:44
awful player....... one i wont be sad to see go.

Julian Dicks
Nicky Tanner
Torben Piechknick
Bjorn Kvarme
Patrice Luzi
Sean Dundee
Eric Meijer
Cheyrou
Diao
Mike Marsh
Peggy Arphexad
Antonio Nunez

been a lot lot worse at our club

baglanboy
31-1-09, 14:44
It's like you turned on a light switch in my mind. THank you baglanboy :D

I am here to help!;)

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 14:46
awful player....... one i wont be sad to see go.

Hey, we are just saying Spearing isn't as good as Lucas. Let's not start being ridiculous please! :rolleyes:

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 14:57
FAO: Helen

Picture taken from someone in my city during that storm. T'was wild! (http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Rio/0,,MUL978383-5606,00-TEMPORAL+DEIXA+PARTE+DE+NITEROI+SEM+ENERGIA+ELETRI CA.html)

Enjoy :)

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 15:01
FAO: Helen

Picture taken from someone in my city during that storm. T'was wild! (http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Rio/0,,MUL978383-5606,00-TEMPORAL+DEIXA+PARTE+DE+NITEROI+SEM+ENERGIA+ELETRI CA.html)

Enjoy :)

wow, thats epically cool :D

the only storms i get are just rain with the occasional roll of thunder. they're good, but nowhere near ^that good. it looks almost biblical

Target-Man
31-1-09, 15:02
Julian Dicks
Nicky Tanner
Torben Piechknick
Bjorn Kvarme
Patrice Luzi
Sean Dundee
Eric Meijer
Cheyrou
Diao
Mike Marsh
Peggy Arphexad
Antonio Nunez

been a lot lot worse at our club

Of all those players, I have a special grudge against Piechnick.

I am Danish and my family has a tradition for supporting Danish Superliga club AGF of Aarhus. Back in 1997 Piechnick was the captain of the team, and they were playing an away game in the UEFA Cup at Ujpest in Budapest.

I was in Budapest at the time and decided to go and watch the game. Buying my ticket at the stadium, I was not allowed to get into the stands where the Danish fans were seated. So I ended up getting at ticket for the home stands.

When I entered the stadium grounds, I encountered some people from the local supporters clubs. They had very little hair, big tattoos and carried banners saying things like Viola Bulldogs and Ultra Corps. In other words, they didn't look overly friendly towards opposing fans, so I decided to disguise myself. I bought an Ujpest scarf and tried to look as Hungarian as it is possible for someone a head taller than the average Hungarian - and blond in a country of people with brown or black hair.

I succeeded in making it onto the stands in one piece. It was a very small stadium and I think I must've been six feet in front of the commentators box, from where I could hear the Danish TV-commentators.

Some twenty minutes before kickoff, Piechnick walked onto the pitch to inspect it. I heard the Danish commentator Joergen Herbert shout down to him:
- Commentator: "Hey Torben (Piechnick), who scored your three goals on Friday".

- Piechnick: "Dammit, Joergen, don't you ever read the papers? Do I also need to tell you where the bar is?"

I couldn't help laughing, and all of a sudden I felt countless pairs of Hungarian eyes looking at me, and a voice saying something like: "Danska"!

I don't understand much Hungarian, but I think I got the point.

So, thank you Piechnick, for blowing my cover!!!

Fortunately, it turned out that the people closest to me were family fathers with their kids, and that put a damper on the situation, but I had some very nervous minutes and couldn't really relax until I was away from the stadium.
:)

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 15:07
wow, thats epically cool :D

the only storms i get are just rain with the occasional roll of thunder. they're good, but nowhere near ^that good. it looks almost biblical

Yeah it gets pretty mental here during storms. A few months ago I had to walk home during a storm, all the water pours down the side of mountains into the street. In 5 minutes I was up to my waist in water (and I am 6'4) and, as there are open sewars here in the favellas, I was wadding through sewage, dead rats, the heap! Next day, quick trip to the hospital for a tetanis and anything else they would jab me with that my girlfriend coud talk them into. Not nice!

The difference here is it's bone dry mostly during the winter, and then when the summer comes it rains almost every day in January!?!?!?

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 15:08
wow, thats epically cool :D

the only storms i get are just rain with the occasional roll of thunder. they're good, but nowhere near ^that good. it looks almost biblical

Oh, and did you ever see the volcano in Chile that erupted into an electrical storm above? Google image search if not. Most impressive thing I ever seen in nature!

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 15:17
Of all those players, I have a special grudge against Piechnick.

I am Danish and my family has a tradition for supporting Danish Superliga club AGF of Aarhus. Back in 1997 Piechnick was the captain of the team, and they were playing an away game in the UEFA Cup at Ujpest in Budapest.

I was in Budapest at the time and decided to go and watch the game. Buying my ticket at the stadium, I was not allowed to get into the stands where the Danish fans were seated. So I ended up getting at ticket for the home stands.

When I entered the stadium grounds, I encountered some people from the local supporters clubs. They had very little hair, big tattoos and carried banners saying things like Viola Bulldogs and Ultra Corps. In other words, they didn't look overly friendly towards opposing fans, so I decided to disguise myself. I bought an Ujpest scarf and tried to look as Hungarian as it is possible for someone a head taller than the average Hungarian - and blond in a country of people with brown or black hair.

I succeeded in making it onto the stands in one piece. It was a very small stadium and I think I must've been six feet in front of the commentators box, from where I could hear the Danish TV-commentators.

Some twenty minutes before kickoff, Piechnick walked onto the pitch to inspect it. I heard the Danish commentator Joergen Herbert shout down to him:
- Commentator: "Hey Torben (Piechnick), who scored your three goals on Friday".

- Piechnick: "Dammit, Joergen, don't you ever read the papers? Do I also need to tell you where the bar is?"

I couldn't help laughing, and all of a sudden I felt countless pairs of Hungarian eyes looking at me, and a voice saying something like: "Danska"!

I don't understand much Hungarian, but I think I got the point.

So, thank you Piechnick, for blowing my cover!!!

Fortunately, it turned out that the people closest to me were family fathers with their kids, and that put a damper on situation, but I had some very nervous minutes and couldn't really relax until I was away from the stadium.
:)

B100dy top story that. I would rep but I'm done for 24 hours!

I know what you mean about feeling eyes on you. First time I got on a bus here ever single person on the bus went quiet and watched me sit down and stared at me for the whole journey. There is no tourism where I live and I think most people have only seen "a ginger" on TV.

Speshhh
31-1-09, 15:24
You dont become a bad player over night

You alos don't lose what you never had. Lucas is so far off a Liverpool player it's scary. AND he's not the only one by a long chalk.

NJNorm
31-1-09, 15:28
He does not score enough he has next to zero primary assists what does he do?

I understand people praise anything in our red jersey but what positive influence does he bring to the game? What potential is there to see?

Rafa has bought enough rubbish for us to know his fallibility in the talent spotting area so this is another wrong un its not the end of the world..as long as we sell him on.

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 15:36
You dont become a bad player over night

You alos don't lose what you never had. Lucas is so far off a Liverpool player it's scary. AND he's not the only one by a long chalk.

Thank you for wasting 30 seconds of my life that I will never get back!

baglanboy
31-1-09, 15:40
Julian Dicks
Nicky Tanner
Torben Piechknick
Bjorn Kvarme
Patrice Luzi
Sean Dundee
Eric Meijer
Cheyrou
Diao
Mike Marsh
Peggy Arphexad
Antonio Nunez

been a lot lot worse at our club

i forgot the one and only Bernard Diomede off that list - im sure theres more dross from the 90's that ive missed but ive attempted to blank all that out over the years.

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 15:47
He does not score enough he has next to zero primary assists what does he do?

I understand people praise anything in our red jersey but what positive influence does he bring to the game? What potential is there to see?

Rafa has bought enough rubbish for us to know his fallibility in the talent spotting area so this is another wrong un its not the end of the world..as long as we sell him on.

http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showpost.php?p=1562683&postcount=19

Target-Man
31-1-09, 15:54
B100dy top story that. I would rep but I'm done for 24 hours!

I know what you mean about feeling eyes on you. First time I got on a bus here ever single person on the bus went quiet and watched me sit down and stared at me for the whole journey. There is no tourism where I live and I think most people have only seen "a ginger" on TV.

There is actually a sequel to the story.

It must have been the early spring of 2003 or so. Together with some mates I had started following "BK Frem" a small, local Danish 1st division team in Copenhagen. It turned out that the very same TV-commentator, Joergen Herbert, had retired from TV and got a job as a stadium announcer at Frem's stadium.

It was one of the first matches after the winter break, I was at the game with my friends. As part of the half time entertainment, there was a lottery, where those who were picked would get the chance to win gift cards for local shops and restaurants if they could kick a ball into the net from the centre of the pitch.

As it turned out, Joergen Herbert, who helped blow my cover in Budapest six years earlier, picked my ticket number. I was wearing heavy winter boots, and I hadn't really played much football for a number of years, so when it was my turn, I kicked into the grass and barely hit the ball, which rolled gently some 20 yards towards the corner flag.

All the way back to where my friends were standing, I had to listen to Joergen Herbert, the aforementioned ex-TV-commentator who helped blow my cover in Bodapest, mock me for my horrible miskick. I have 2208 Copenhagen football fans, who can testify that I cannot kick a ball, and I have to suffer the indignity of having all my friends retell the story every time they get a couple of beers!

Now, I blame Piechnick for blowing my cover in Budapest, but it turned out he was not alone. He and the TV-commentator must have been in it together.

If you think I'm paranoid, remember what Woody Allen said: "Paranoia is knowing all the facts!"

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 16:04
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showpost.php?p=1562683&postcount=19

Excellent post that Helen. Says a lot of things I have said about Lucas many many times. I do think people are set in their ways with him. Will be interesting to see what happens if one day he becomes a first choice regular.

Oh, and according to this, he has 2 assists, although I can't remember the other myself?!!? (http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/squad/lucas-leiva-profile.html)

It is worth nothing that in more than double the amount of time on the pitch, Xabi Alonso also has 2 assists. So I am more than fair to say that Xabi cannot pass a ball, always sideways or backwards is too defensive, not of Liverpool quality and we should sell him!

It's not fair to have one rule for Lucas and another for everyone else.

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 16:05
Oh, and with 50% more time on the pitch, Mascherano has 50% less assists. He is terrible. Sell him..... call Aldershot now and ask them to take him etc etc

sevenman
31-1-09, 16:09
Over the course of this season, despite the boos he received, he's improved as the season has gone on.

He still has a lot of work to do though to get the required level.

Target-Man
31-1-09, 16:10
I think Lucas' worst performance recently was against Stoke, where struggled a bit with the very physical nature of the match. But I think there are other teams that would testify after today that playing away to Stoke is no Piechnick - sorry, picnic!

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 16:14
Excellent post that Helen. Says a lot of things I have said about Lucas many many times. I do think people are set in their ways with him. Will be interesting to see what happens if one day he becomes a first choice regular.

Oh, and according to this, he has 2 assists, although I can't remember the other myself?!!? (http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/squad/lucas-leiva-profile.html)

It is worth nothing that in more than double the amount of time on the pitch, Xabi Alonso also has 2 assists. So I am more than fair to say that Xabi cannot pass a ball, always sideways or backwards is too defensive, not of Liverpool quality and we should sell him!

It's not fair to have one rule for Lucas and another for everyone else.

2nd assist would be for riera's goal against psv where lucas plucked it out of the air and passed to riera in one move.

and yup one rule for one and another for everyone else :(

baglanboy
31-1-09, 16:20
Excellent post that Helen. Says a lot of things I have said about Lucas many many times. I do think people are set in their ways with him. Will be interesting to see what happens if one day he becomes a first choice regular.

Oh, and according to this, he has 2 assists, although I can't remember the other myself?!!? (http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/squad/lucas-leiva-profile.html)

It is worth nothing that in more than double the amount of time on the pitch, Xabi Alonso also has 2 assists. So I am more than fair to say that Xabi cannot pass a ball, always sideways or backwards is too defensive, not of Liverpool quality and we should sell him!

It's not fair to have one rule for Lucas and another for everyone else.

Hmmm with that sort of reasoned, sensible argument you mark yourself as an OOT'er, not worthy of supporting our great & local club - go off and support your closest team and leave this forum with your well thought out assignations, making others look foolish!!

wibble:D

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 16:25
Liverpool Creativity Table

Who is Liverpools most creative player you ask? Well let us work out the average of assists against minutes played.

Now whilst stats are a load of nonsense, if people want to criticise Lucas saying he doesn't get enough assists then refer them to this.

Secondly, look a Kuyt..... not bad for someone who destroys our every attack eh?


Name Assists Minutes Played Average

Gerrard - 6 - 2478 - 413
Kuyt - 5 - 2612 - 522.4
Lucas - 2 - 1124 - 562
Benayoun - 2 - 1281 - 640.5
Riera - 2 - 1748 - 874
Xabi - 2 - 2351 - 1175.5
Mascherano - 1 - 1722 - 1722

Target-Man
31-1-09, 16:29
Liverpool Creativity Table

Who is Liverpools most creative player you ask? Well let us work out the average of assists against minutes played.

Now whilst stats are a load of nonsense, if people want to criticise Lucas saying he doesn't get enough assists then refer them to this.

Secondly, look a Kuyt..... not bad for someone who destroys our every attack eh?


Name Assists Minutes Played Average

Gerrard - 6 - 2478 - 413
Kuyt - 5 - 2612 - 522.4
Lucas - 2 - 1124 - 562
Benayoun - 2 - 1281 - 640.5
Riera - 2 - 1748 - 874
Xabi - 2 - 2351 - 1175.5
Mascherano - 1 - 1722 - 1722

You can get a lot of fun out of viewing football purely in statistical terms. ;)

http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=86983

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 16:31
There is actually a sequel to the story.

It must have been the early spring of 2003 or so. Together with some mates I had started following "BK Frem" a small, local Danish 1st division team in Copenhagen. It turned out that the very same TV-commentator, Joergen Herbert, had retired from TV and got a job as a stadium announcer at Frem's stadium.

It was one of the first matches after the winter break, I was at the game with my friends. As part of the half time entertainment, there was a lottery, where those who were picked would get the chance to win gift cards for local shops and restaurants if they could kick a ball into the net from the centre of the pitch.

As it turned out, Joergen Herbert, who helped blow my cover in Budapest six years earlier, picked my ticket number. I was wearing heavy winter boots, and I hadn't really played much football for a number of years, so when it was my turn, I kicked into the grass and barely hit the ball, which rolled gently some 20 yards towards the corner flag.

All the way back to where my friends were standing, I had to listen to Joergen Herbert, the aforementioned ex-TV-commentator who helped blow my cover in Bodapest, mock me for my horrible miskick. I have 2208 Copenhagen football fans, who can testify that I cannot kick a ball, and I have to suffer the indignity of having all my friends retell the story every time they get a couple of beers!

Now, I blame Piechnick for blowing my cover in Budapest, but it turned out he was not alone. He and the TV-commentator must have been in it together.

If you think I'm paranoid, remember what Woody Allen said: "Paranoia is knowing all the facts!"

They say a bad workman always blames his tools :rolleyes:

I remember seeing you wearing a pair of Predators to the games :P

Seriously though, I heard Liverpool have strong ties now with clubs in Denmark, and we have some first option on Matais Jorgensen among others. Know anything?

I think one club is Herfolge.... not sure if they are a feeder club or what?!?

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 16:33
Hmmm with that sort of reasoned, sensible argument you mark yourself as an OOT'er, not worthy of supporting our great & local club - go off and support your closest team and leave this forum with your well thought out assignations, making others look foolish!!

wibble:D

*** takes ball home ***

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 16:38
Liverpool Creativity Table

Who is Liverpools most creative player you ask? Well let us work out the average of assists against minutes played.

Now whilst stats are a load of nonsense, if people want to criticise Lucas saying he doesn't get enough assists then refer them to this.

Secondly, look a Kuyt..... not bad for someone who destroys our every attack eh?


Name Assists Minutes Played Average

Gerrard - 6 - 2478 - 413
Kuyt - 5 - 2612 - 522.4
Lucas - 2 - 1124 - 562
Benayoun - 2 - 1281 - 640.5
Riera - 2 - 1748 - 874
Xabi - 2 - 2351 - 1175.5
Mascherano - 1 - 1722 - 1722

whilst its good that he is the 3rd best (?) assistor, i dont buy into the argument that that is the only way to decide how well a midfielder is playing.

everyone has been waxing lyrical about xabi this season, saying how well he has been playing, but he has few assists as well. he's like lucas, about a pass or two behind the assist, part of the build up play.

things like assists can be good because they give you something on paper to prove that a player has done well, but a lack of assists doesnt mean a player has been playing badly.

thats not aimed at you by the way. just a general mini rant :D

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 16:39
You can get a lot of fun out of viewing football purely in statistical terms. ;)

http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/showthread.php?t=86983

Yeah I saw that, it was frankly brilliant. Someone taking the fact we have a great defense and spinning it against us.

I never use stats to prove a point, I argue a point. However I will use them to shoot down other peoples points once you can pin them down to something specific. You are letting them chose the battle ground also so in this sense it is fair. Taking what they consider to be the primary weakness and then showing them he is no different to others in his position who are nominated for world player of the year, or 2 time olympic gold medalists and captain of their country, or a european champion. So, saying Lucas doesn't get enough assists is specific enough to kill their arguement for me.

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 16:45
whilst its good that he is the 3rd best (?) assistor, i dont buy into the argument that that is the only way to decide how well a midfielder is playing.

everyone has been waxing lyrical about xabi this season, saying how well he has been playing, but he has few assists as well. he's like lucas, about a pass or two behind the assist, part of the build up play.

things like assists can be good because they give you something on paper to prove that a player has done well, but a lack of assists doesnt mean a player has been playing badly.

thats not aimed at you by the way. just a general mini rant :D

You know I agree with this, as I said above:

"I never use stats to prove a point, I argue a point. However I will use them to shoot down other peoples points once you can pin them down to something specific. You are letting them chose the battle ground also so in this sense it is fair. Taking what they consider to be the primary weakness and then showing them he is no different to others in his position who are nominated for world player of the year, or 2 time olympic gold medalists and captain of their country, or a european champion. So, saying Lucas doesn't get enough assists is specific enough to kill their arguement for me."

You could also argue he is more adventurous now than Xabi or Mascherano with his passing, and yet has a higher pass completion ratio that both.

Like I said before, I like the idea of Ice Hockey where people who are key in making the goal happen are credited as well as the final passer of the ball. Players like Lucas and Xabi would be raking it in by now!

Target-Man
31-1-09, 16:50
They say a bad workman always blames his tools :rolleyes:

I remember seeing you wearing a pair of Predators to the games :P

Seriously though, I heard Liverpool have strong ties now with clubs in Denmark, and we have some first option on Matais Jorgensen among others. Know anything?

I think one club is Herfolge.... not sure if they are a feeder club or what?!?

As I said in an earlier post, the "Target Man" name is no coincidence. From purely a theoretical point of view, I know how to kick a ball. When it comes to actually playing, I prefer to use my head. I've been 6'4 since I was 13.

Nikola Saric came from Herfølge, but Palsson who signed here in January came from AGF Aarhus. Some of the minor clubs have pretty good youth setups.

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 16:50
You know I agree with this, as I said above:

"I never use stats to prove a point, I argue a point. However I will use them to shoot down other peoples points once you can pin them down to something specific. You are letting them chose the battle ground also so in this sense it is fair. Taking what they consider to be the primary weakness and then showing them he is no different to others in his position who are nominated for world player of the year, or 2 time olympic gold medalists and captain of their country, or a european champion. So, saying Lucas doesn't get enough assists is specific enough to kill their arguement for me."

You could also argue he is more adventurous now than Xabi or Mascherano with his passing, and yet has a higher pass completion ratio that both.

Like I said before, I like the idea of Ice Hockey where people who are key in making the goal happen are credited as well as the final passer of the ball. Players like Lucas and Xabi would be raking it in by now!

right after i hit submit, i realised that whilst i had been typing, you had been typing that ^ :D

you can argue a lot of good stuff about him, but it seems like every time a good debate gets going, some one will come in and just say 'lucas is crap' (or words to that affect) and it just kills the argument, because you have to start again.

plus i've had the fun in face to face conversations of being told that i only rate lucas because i must fancy him. oh the joys of being female and liking a male-dominated sport :rolleyes::D

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 17:03
right after i hit submit, i realised that whilst i had been typing, you had been typing that ^ :D

you can argue a lot of good stuff about him, but it seems like every time a good debate gets going, some one will come in and just say 'lucas is crap' (or words to that affect) and it just kills the argument, because you have to start again.

plus i've had the fun in face to face conversations of being told that i only rate lucas because i must fancy him. oh the joys of being female and liking a male-dominated sport :rolleyes::D

Well..... he is an very attractive guy! :tumbleweed

:o

I like to take people who say their one line nonsense and just say "but why is he crap" "what does he do wrong". When people lists their "facts" you can just blow them out of the water.

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 17:05
Unsuble Hint 2009 Awards

Wow, I was just looking at my reputation and I am one vote away from having 7 Greenies.

Ai Caramba (They say that here! Can you imagine how much I laughed. It's like a Warner Brothers cartoon!)

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 17:09
Unsuble Hint 2009 Awards

Wow, I was just looking at my reputation and I am one vote away from having 7 Greenies.

Ai Caramba (They say that here! Can you imagine how much I laughed. It's like a Warner Brothers cartoon!)

you cant spell unsubtle :D

they say that? with a straight face and not a hint of irony? :D

but yeah re: being accused of liking players for being a different type of player, its even more annoying than the 'lucas is crap' comeback, because at least then theres loads of stuff you can throw back at them. what can i say? 'no i dont'? trust me, it doesnt convince anyone, even though its the truth :mad:

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 17:27
you cant spell unsubtle :D

I seriously need to get my F***ing act together today!


they say that? with a straight face and not a hint of irony? :D


I think someone must have been to Brasil and heard that and then thought it would be a good thing for a cartoon character to say. But yeah, it's like us saying "Oh my God" or something like that when something surprised you.


but yeah re: being accused of liking players for being a different type of player, its even more annoying than the 'lucas is crap' comeback, because at least then theres loads of stuff you can throw back at them. what can i say? 'no i dont'? trust me, it doesnt convince anyone, even though its the truth :mad:

Ai Caramba! But what's not to like? Those beautiful blond locks..... :P

You could always just say you like Torres, does that make him a rubbish player? Assuming you like Torres that is. Every girl seems to like him, even the big hurly burly ones that look like extras from Prisoner Cell Block H

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 17:36
I seriously need to get my F***ing act together today!

I think someone must have been to Brasil and heard that and then thought it would be a good thing for a cartoon character to say. But yeah, it's like us saying "Oh my God" or something like that when something surprised you.

Ai Caramba! But what's not to like? Those beautiful blond locks..... :P

You could always just say you like Torres, does that make him a rubbish player? Assuming you like Torres that is. Every girl seems to like him, even the big hurly burly ones that look like extras from Prisoner Cell Block H

:D

i never said he wasnt good looking, just that i see him a player, not a guy. same with all of the players, including torres :p

its people like my sister who give female fans a bad name. we were watching a game together, think it was the newcastle one, and she sat there the whole time telling me which players she thought were good looking :D

btw, check out the lucas should be dropped thread, someones added a good reply :)

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 17:58
:D

i never said he wasnt good looking, just that i see him a player, not a guy. same with all of the players, including torres :p

its people like my sister who give female fans a bad name. we were watching a game together, think it was the newcastle one, and she sat there the whole time telling me which players she thought were good looking :D

btw, check out the lucas should be dropped thread, someones added a good reply :)

Had a friend who used to go to the Ipswich games with me just to watch Martijn Reusers legs :rolleyes: ...... Fred was always a bit wierd like that! :P

Do you think it is interesting in a thread called "Lucas Bashing" that nobody has bashed Lucas on this page? They've all kinda limped out carrying their pride with them.

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 18:07
Had a friend who used to go to the Ipswich games with me just to watch Martijn Reusers legs :rolleyes: ...... Fred was always a bit wierd like that! :P

Do you think it is interesting in a thread called "Lucas Bashing" that nobody has bashed Lucas on this page? They've all kinda limped out carrying their pride with them.

hmm, is this the one with the women at the olympics? ;)

yep, its certainly says something about the people who dont like/rate lucas that they dont hang around and argue their point/one-liner and instead run away. which is a pity in a way, cause i've had some good debates in the past. :D

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 18:10
Arsenal 0-0 West Ham
Aston Villa 0-0 Wigan

Are these both full time scores? If so happy days for us!

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 18:12
Arsenal 0-0 West Ham
Aston Villa 0-0 Wigan

Are these both full time scores? If so happy days for us!

yup they are. so come the end of the game tomorrow, liverpool will be at least 3rd. not 4th or 5th like some of the doom mongers predicted :D

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 18:19
hmm, is this the one with the women at the olympics? ;)

yep, its certainly says something about the people who dont like/rate lucas that they dont hang around and argue their point/one-liner and instead run away. which is a pity in a way, cause i've had some good debates in the past. :D

Likewise, had a fantastic debate with Gola yesterday which after getting out of hand a little, ended nicely with a hug and some green rep LOL

Watching the United game and I must say they aren't really "on top" in this one. Everton are sharing the possession although they've only really had one shot of mention.

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 18:20
..... Ai Caramba..... as soon as I say that - Penalty, goal. 1-0 Ronaldo.

Off now to break my fingers!

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 18:27
..... Ai Caramba..... as soon as I say that - Penalty, goal. 1-0 Ronaldo.

Off now to break my fingers!

hmmm, i wonder how much stick arteta/hibbert (dont know which foul was responsible) will get from their own fans? ;)

somehow, i doubt you were responsible though :D

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 19:07
hmmm, i wonder how much stick arteta/hibbert (dont know which foul was responsible) will get from their own fans? ;)

somehow, i doubt you were responsible though :D

Just saw Ronaldo trying a run, fail, and then pass the ball back to Carrick! How did that gimp win player of the year. You need to pass forward!!!!

skrteltheturtle89
31-1-09, 19:15
Just saw Ronaldo trying a run, fail, and then pass the ball back to Carrick! How did that gimp win player of the year. You need to pass forward!!!!

but passing backward is bad, bad, bad i thought? :confused:;)

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 19:30
but passing backward is bad, bad, bad i thought? :confused:;)

That's what happens when you seen defensive players like Ronaldo!

Kate-Maria
31-1-09, 19:31
all this player bashing is having the effect of making the guy not play well he miss places a pass in the everton game the crowd groans and moans hell if you think that is a way to get a performance out of him you are nuts some players need to be loved to play well

also if Lucas and kuyt goes who you going to moan about then who are you going to turn on next

its funny I watched the last 2 everton games and I was thinking babel played rubbish but I see posts on here play him more he needs confidence and you only get that by playing :rolleyes: funny how the same don't apply to others hey

BabuYagu
31-1-09, 19:36
all this player bashing is having the effect of making the guy not play well he miss places a pass in the everton game the crowd groans and moans hell if you think that is a way to get a performance out of him you are nuts some players need to be loved to play well

also if Lucas and kuyt goes who you going to moan about then who are you going to turn on next

its funny I watched the last 2 everton games and I was thinking babel played rubbish but I see posts on here play him more he needs confidence and you only get that by playing :rolleyes: funny how the same don't apply to others hey

Spot on Kate-Maria. We need to judge everybody fairly and equally. After the Stoke game people wanted Lucas to be sold.

"But what about vs Arsenal and Newcastle, he was probably our best player".

You are only as good as your last game.

Yet nobody wants to sell Gerrard after Wigan, using the same logic!?!

Target-Man
1-2-09, 14:37
They say a bad workman always blames his tools :rolleyes:

I remember seeing you wearing a pair of Predators to the games :P

Seriously though, I heard Liverpool have strong ties now with clubs in Denmark, and we have some first option on Matais Jorgensen among others. Know anything?

I think one club is Herfolge.... not sure if they are a feeder club or what?!?

Having thought about your question again, I remembered that Liverpool actually has former Danish international Jacob Friis-Hansen as part of the scouting staff. He was interviewed in the studio as they were warming up for a game a couple of weeks ago. He's responsible for scouting in Denmark, and I think other parts of Scandinavia as well.

Anyway, his work might be one of the reasons why Liverpool have signed a handful of young players from the Denmark recently. Palsson, although Icelandic, was signed from Denmark.

Mattias Jørgensen, mostly known as "Zanka", was reported as a target for Liverpool in the fall. He is 18 years old and a central defender, as far as I know. He has already made 41 appearances with FC Copenhagen since he signed as a 17 year old from minor club B93, including 26 starts of which 14 were in the league and 7 in the Uefa Cup. Clearly, he is highly rated, and he has already made his debut for Denmark - at 18 - coming on as a substitute in a friendly against Wales.

He has been reported as a target for Liverpool but is currently attracting a lot of attention from the German Bundesliga, according to Danish papers. Jacob Friis Hansen, himself a former Denmark central defender, was very hopeful of having him join Agger at Liverpool, but so far I he is staying with FC Copenhagen.

Thespian
23-3-12, 15:43
Just wondering if this was worth a bump.??

cravenz
23-3-12, 15:46
Just wondering if this was worth a bump.??

For?

Thespian
23-3-12, 15:49
For???

These little gems...


i thought jimmy bullard would have been a good replacement for lucas. hes good on the ball ok passer and hits a great free-kick. for five million not bad.


Jimmy Bullard is on another level compared to Lucas. Its just a shame he is 30 and cost £5million.



at 30 we still could have got 2/3 good years from him.

Alpha Papa
23-3-12, 15:54
Props to Target-Man.

cravenz
23-3-12, 15:55
:)

Target-Man
23-3-12, 21:57
Props to Target-Man.

It's kinda interesting to revisit this thread. I must say that I feel vindicated by what has happened in the three years since this thread was started. Although I have to say that I am almost embarrassed to see how right I was. ;)

SomeKloppo
23-3-12, 22:34
Lucas is an awful player.......

So is Torres.

TheSoundLady
23-3-12, 23:11
In 3 years, as league champs for the 19th? 20th? 21st time? We'll be ressurecting a lot of Kenny bashing threads.

DiscoDjimi
23-3-12, 23:14
In 3 years, as league champs for the 19th? 20th? 21st time? We'll be ressurecting a lot of Kenny bashing threads.

I sure hope you are right.

Hobbes.
23-3-12, 23:44
How you can say lucas is not sa good I don't know, he is important to the team and he is great in possession.

Alon1
23-3-12, 23:49
Good passer of the ball....Trouble is, he is a central midfielder who cant tackle....Will never prosper in that position until he sorts that out and I think it is too late to do anything about it....

:D

Stevie Jesus
23-3-12, 23:50
What a whopper of a thread

L1verFC
23-3-12, 23:50
Looked through to see if I had posted anything.

I'm not there so carry on :D

Target-Man
23-3-12, 23:52
How you can say lucas is not sa good I don't know, he is important to the team and he is great in possession.

Well, the thread is three years old, and that explains a lot.

angelYNWA
23-3-12, 23:58
this thread needs to be nailed to the top of the forum front page.

I love the hypocrisy of people who to this day **** off the likes of Hendo Downing and Carroll.

Graggster
23-3-12, 23:59
Good thread

Paullfc1976
24-3-12, 00:02
this thread needs to be nailed to the top of the forum front page.

I love the hypocrisy of people who to this day **** off the likes of Hendo Downing and Carroll.

Good point; especially on Hendo.

dreams-come-true
24-3-12, 00:24
I didn't post in this thread I think. But I didn't like Lucas when he first came here. He really did give away free kicks in dangerous parts in front of our penalty area. I thought the Lucas Mascherano partnership didn't work well at all. It was really what I thought at the time.
I could not know however, that Lucas would become this great tackler like regularly the last two years now. He really did come on when Masch left I think. BEcause Masch was our destroyer. Lucas walked into his empty shoes here and became that player for us. And I think Lucas does it more elegantly too.
As to our current crop of "hopeless" players ..... There is no doubt in my mind that Carroll, Henderson, and especially Downing have become better ..... just try and forget the QPR game!

The lynch mob is out in force because we have tripped up. Well, they may be justified in criticising the results. But patience is certainly not a great virtue for them.

WindyShepherdHenderson
24-3-12, 00:25
Henderson will be a superb player for us in the future. I've said it since we signed him.

Obi-Red Kenobi
24-3-12, 00:35
Lucas is an awful player.......

oh the irony screams out....

:FP:

WindyShepherdHenderson
24-3-12, 00:39
oh the irony screams out....

:FP:

Torres isn't an awful player. That's not irony.

Paullfc1976
24-3-12, 00:40
Henderson will be a superb player for us in the future. I've said it since we signed him.

Yes.

People need to be patient.

-CADS-
24-3-12, 00:43
We were all Lucas bashers at one time or another. Whoever doesn't admit it is lying.

Target-Man
24-3-12, 00:45
We were all Lucas bashers at one time or another. Whoever doesn't admit it is lying.

Not really, but we can pretend so if that makes you feel better.

-CADS-
24-3-12, 00:48
Not really, but we can pretend so if that makes you feel better.

So you didn't bash him when he sucked badly for a year/year and a half after he moved here?

Sure. :rolleyes:

Paullfc1976
24-3-12, 00:49
We were all Lucas bashers at one time or another. Whoever doesn't admit it is lying.

Nah, a lot of people said he'd come good.

Target-Man
24-3-12, 00:52
So you didn't bash him when he sucked badly for a year/year and a half after he moved here?

Sure. :rolleyes:

I don't think you will find much evidence me bashing Lucas, unless you count every critical remark as bashing. If that is the case, I was also a Masch basher, a Torres basher, as Sami basher, a Stevie basher and a Carra basher.

Paullfc1976
24-3-12, 00:53
I don't think you will find much evidence me bashing Lucas, unless you count every critical remark as bashing. If that is the case, I was also a Masch basher, a Torres basher, as Sami basher, a Stevie basher and a Carra basher.

What about a bishop basher?

-CADS-
24-3-12, 00:54
Nah, a lot of people said he'd come good.

They may have said that on a public forum. Whether they believed it privately is another matter.

dreams-come-true
24-3-12, 00:55
What a bishop basher?

:D bashop bisher

-CADS-
24-3-12, 00:55
I don't think you will find much evidence me bashing Lucas, unless you count every critical remark as bashing. If that is the case, I was also a Masch basher, a Torres basher, as Sami basher, a Stevie basher and a Carra basher.

Did you give him significantly more critical remarks than Masch/Torres/Sami etc? If so you were bashing him.

Paullfc1976
24-3-12, 00:55
They may have said that on a public forum. Whether they believed it privately is another matter.

Why wouldn't they believe it privately?

If they believed he'd come good, then why would they be lying?

Target-Man
24-3-12, 00:56
They may have said that on a public forum. Whether they believed it privately is another matter.

We have a saying in Danish which basically goes: "A thief thinks that every man steals."

Target-Man
24-3-12, 00:56
Did you give him significantly more critical remarks than Masch/Torres/Sami etc? If so you were bashing him.

I don't believe I did. I actually had a post back in 2009-10 in which I said that he would boss midfield by now.

-CADS-
24-3-12, 01:02
Why wouldn't they believe it privately?

If they believed he'd come good, then why would they be lying?

Conformity, acting the sheep and going with majority opinion to avoid being in the minority. I see it all the time on here.


We have a saying in Danish which basically goes: "A thief thinks that every man steals."

You Danish are very wise. :D

Paullfc1976
24-3-12, 01:04
Conformity, acting the sheep and going with majority opinion to avoid being in the minority. I see it all the time on here.





The majority opinion on Lucas was people not rating him.

-CADS-
24-3-12, 01:09
The majority opinion on Lucas was people not rating him.

Or maybe they were acting the superfan, trying not to criticise a Liverpool player no matter how bad he was. Or possibly they just felt sorry for him. Or a combination of the above.

Either way there would be very few of us here that could be counted as not a Lucas basher once upon a time. Quite right too. Nothing wrong with a fan booing or criticising a player when he's playing that badly.

Paullfc1976
24-3-12, 01:14
Or maybe they were acting the superfan, trying not to criticise a Liverpool player no matter how bad he was. Or possibly they just felt sorry for him. Or a combination of the above.

Either way there would be very few of us here that could be counted as not a Lucas basher once upon a time. Quite right too. Nothing wrong with a fan booing or criticising a player when he's playing that badly.

I have never agreed with booing one of our own players.

But that's just me.

-CADS-
24-3-12, 01:19
I have never agreed with booing one of our own players.

But that's just me.

Tbh I feel the same so I'll change it to "nothing wrong with a fan bashing, shouting out obscenities in the heat of the moment or criticising a player when he's playing that badly".

Paullfc1976
24-3-12, 01:20
Tbh I feel the same so I'll change it to "nothing wrong with a fan bashing, shouting out obscenities in the heat of the moment or criticising a player when he's playing that badly".

Fair enough.

KirkbyToCanada
24-3-12, 01:44
There is a massive difference between criticizing a player for a poor performance and bashing a player.

We meet here to discuss Liverpool FC, if a player plays poorly it's only natural that it would be a talking point, specifically if we lose. What bothers me are the people who say nothing when we win, and the second we get a poor result they're flying out in full force.

To say players like Henderson, Carroll, or Downing have had poor respective seasons is true, however there are far too many people who almost instantly demand the sale, or beheading of the same players who wear their beloved red.

Sickening really.

PHIL.
24-3-12, 01:48
We were all Lucas bashers at one time or another. Whoever doesn't admit it is lying.

Nope.

RiiseAgainst
24-3-12, 01:57
Can't wait to bump some threads on Henderson in the future. :D

Paulite
24-3-12, 02:03
We were all Lucas bashers at one time or another. Whoever doesn't admit it is lying.

No, you're just in denial because you are embarrassed you got it so wrong.

-CADS-
24-3-12, 02:16
No, you're just in denial because you are embarrassed you got it so wrong.

Denial? :D

I have no problem admitting I was wrong when I thought he was useless. You clearly do though.

Paulite
24-3-12, 02:23
Denial? :D

I have no problem admitting I was wrong when I thought he was useless. You clearly do though.

I wasn't wrong.

jezthered82
24-3-12, 02:40
Does anyone else think there's still one hell of a lot more to come from him? I think he's only going to get better...

LivingProof
24-3-12, 02:43
lucas will improve........when hes playing in scotland for falkirk or kilmarnock.....:rolleyes:

hes out of his depth playing for us....sorry but true:rolleyes:

:D

TheSoundLady
24-3-12, 03:53
We were all Lucas bashers at one time or another. Whoever doesn't admit it is lying.

Don't call me a liar and don't speak for me. I've never bashed Lucas in my life.


We have a saying in Danish which basically goes: "A thief thinks that every man steals."

Very true indeed.


Nothing wrong with a fan booing or criticising a player when he's playing that badly.

Booing a player is not only completely pathetic, it's also the polar opposite of what being a fan of this club is about.

-CADS-
24-3-12, 04:01
Don't call me a liar and don't speak for me. I've never bashed Lucas in my life.



Very true indeed.



Booing a player is not only completely pathetic, it's also the polar opposite of what being a fan of this club is about.

Oh don't play the superfan card again. Bashing means criticising. I don't believe anyone who says they never lost patience with him and criticised him for the poor performances he put in at the start of his Liverpool career.