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Thread: Letter From Brazil

  1. #31  
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    Thanks for maintaining this thread Robin. It's a great insight into a fascinating and football crazy country that we don't hear enough about here in the UK.
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  2. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KopiteCrash View Post
    Love the updates, always interesting to hear about Brazillian football. Brazil look like they are going to thrive under Mano, and Lucas is going to benefit from the experience immensely (hopefully). Who do you support over there Robin? And who is your favorite Brazillian player? (I know right? So origional...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt-CM View Post
    Thanks for maintaining this thread Robin. It's a great insight into a fascinating and football crazy country that we don't hear enough about here in the UK.
    Thanks for the support, sorry I've not up-dated past week, a little occupied with a certain court case, also the miners in Chile.

    You should all be getting full reports on the BBC by now of the miners, they sent out a team of their own, I am no longer needed

    Still, at least you got the Chile miners plight and the Bruno News before it hit the UK press, here on the LFC forum

    Funny thing about the Bruno saga, I held off posting it for a week, because I didn't believe it, I thought it was a bit N.O.T.W. type news.. Next time, I'll give you the gossip as it happens, if it turns out to be false, you can shoot me down in flames.
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    First an up-date as to the Liverpool news as reported here in Brazil.

    Well as usual, it is all very positive, if not quite the news we would like to see. First of all another full page was devoted to the court proceedings, the decision, and as we all know the hicks action in Dallas.

    I contacted My brother in law and nephew in Sao Paulo, they say he is reviled, not just for what he did to Corinthians, (they support Sao Paulo), but for the way he did it.

    Whilst there is a lot of crime in Brazil, underhand dealings are seen as the worst sort of crime. OK to rob a bank perhaps, but you don't lie and cheat people, funny old world, but I can understand the point of view having lived here for four years.

    The report was very factual, and also carried news of injuries to Kyut and Agger ahead of the game with Everton. Which of course will be shown live, on free to view national tv. As were most Liverpool games the last three years.

    As I've said before, they like Liverpool here.

    There has been much comment in the tabloids re the roony and beckham prostitute scandals. roony is not liked in Brazil at all, they think he is a clown, who just happens to be a good footballer.

    The biggest joke was aimed at beckham, when he was asked to remove his trousers in court. As was well reported in the UK press.

    No need to repeat in full what was said, I know it has been well reported in the UK press, that's just to give you all an idea, as to how much EPL and especially Liverpool are reported/followed here.

    So what's happening with Bruno?

    Bruno yesterday,again collapsed in court, and was admitted to hospital, whilst answering questions regarding the alleged abduction and imprisoment of his ex girlfriend.

    This is the fifth time Bruno has collapsed in court, he also collapsed twice whilst in prison, each time he has been admitted to hospital. Last week, he returned to the court in a wheelchair, handcuffed and guarded by four very well armed policemen.

    Now I need to tell you a little about the legal/prison/social, system here, some of the facts I had to check out, because they struck me as strange when I first heard them.

    Education is highly thought of in Brazil, the better your grades at school and your general education, the better person you are. And herein lies the problem.

    Bruno did not gain matriculation, read that as graduation in the States, or three or four gcse's in the UK. as a rough guide.

    People who are of a lower education, regardless of wealth etc, are treated as third class citizens whilst in prison. (a funny aside to this, my Brazilian wife insists that the out-going President, Lula, cannot read and write, and was poorly educated, but I've found no proof of that, possibly just a bit of Brazilian gossip, gossip is a curse here, I have to triple check all my facts ).

    If you are of a lower education, your "status" as a prisoner is low. Hence Bruno has been held in a "commune cell" with perhaps very dangerous criminals. His food will be very basic, and his exercise and visiting rights severely restricted.

    Highly educated prisoners get a cell of their own, with better provisions.

    This was cited by his defence Lawyers, as the reason for his previous collapse and visits to the hospital. As mentioned in a previous post he was, whilst playing for Flamengo on a high protein diet. The prison diet is very basic.

    The lawyers were trying to use this as a reason to secure his release on bail. That application was turned down, citing Adriano, who left the country after alleged drug trafficking charges, and Wagner Love who also fled the country, whilst facing allegations/charges of carrying illegal firearms. Both of whom were former Flamengo players.

    The lawyers on this occasion are trying a new argument. They accused the Seds, (that's the "Secretaria de Estado de Defasa Soscial" or to translate, The Secretary of State, for Social Defence. Which is the prison service and Judical service). well they accused them of "doping" Brunos daily medication. So that he would fall ill at the tribunal.

    Four other of the defendants have also suffered illness whilst attending the court, all requiring medical treatment. This again is alleged to be from drugs being induced into their daily rations.

    The other argument, put forward by the prosecution, is that the illness' are all a sham, and that the defendants are attempting to use the defence of "Too ill to attend court", Hence the charges would be put aside.

    Once again the Lawyers moved for "habeus corpus" and "no case to answer". Let's see where it all ends.

    The other news I have re the CBF and Ricardo Texiera I am delaying, untill later today, as there are some allegations that I want to clarify before writing them here. I don't want to write rumours without proof, it might bring the boards into dispute. And if I get it wrong, you won't believe me in the future.

    I want this thread to remain factual, on what's happening in Brazil, and SA as a whole, with a Liverpool slant.

    Not sure who is telling the truth in all this, but it make a good story. Strange but true.
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    I can't believe some of the things that Hicks has done in the past, who knows what could have happened if he stayed. I'll bet the Corinthian fans will be glad to see Hicks out of business. They could have warned us! . But Mr moores should have done his job properly.
    All im saying is good riddance.

    How come they hate rooney; he's the white Pele

    The whole Bruno saga seems really complex because of the fact they haven't found a body which is obviously going to count for Bruno and not against. My personal feeling is that he is guilty because of how he and his agent have behaved. But as the saying goes; innocent until proven guilty.

    How has lucas' performance been percieved by Brazil and what do they think of their national team in terms of their progress and how they are playing? Do the Brazilian public want Ronaldino back in the squad?
    Last edited by joeylfc1; 15-10-10 at 18:45.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeylfcno1 View Post
    I can't believe some of the things that Hicks has done in the past, who knows what could have happened if he stayed. I'll bet the Corinthian fans will be glad to see Hicks out of business. They could have warned us! . But Mr moores should have done his job properly.
    All im saying is good riddance.

    How come they hate rooney; he's the white Pele

    The whole Bruno saga seems really complex because of the fact they haven't found a body which is obviously going to count for Bruno and not against. My personal feeling is that he is guilty because of how he and his agent have behaved. But as the saying goes; innocent until proven guilty.

    How has lucas' performance been percieved by Brazil and what do they think of their national team in terms of their progress and how they are playing? Do the Brazilian public want Ronaldino back in the squad?
    As to the "Bruno saga" as you say, "no body", "no crime to answer to". Added to that the illness, and collapsing in court, due to bad treatment in prison? alleged doping and drugging of food. It all adds up to an attempt by the defence to get the whole case quashed.

    We shall have to wait and see.

    As for "hating" rooney, they just think he is stupid (don't we all) they accept he is a talented player, but wonder why he decides to deal with certain ladies of the road. Added to his attitude on the pitch. The stupid kick at the ref in the Fulham game last year, has not been forgotten.

    As to Lucas and the national team, I will quote Menezez who stated "he is a intricate part of our 2014 World Cup squad". I don't think you can get much higher praise than that.

    I really do despair with the armchair fans who slate him. he is a good squad player, and when played in the correct position, does really well.

    Against Ukraine, he played alone in front of the back four, his distribution led to both of Brazils goals. And but for poor crossing, and finishing, would have led to two more goals.

    But of course all those armchair fans know so much more than Rafa or Menezez, or Hodgson.

    The Brazil squad has undergone a radical change, some of this is influenced by Ricardo Texeira, who stated that he wanted a younger team to contest the world cup in 2014.

    Kaka, Robinho, etc, may not get picked. Neymer, despite his man of the match display against the USA, is also kept on the sidelines.

    In the past, sad to say, Religion played a large part in the selection of the National team. Evangelists were excluded, Catholics were first choice. Whilst there were exceptions to this, "Pele", other players were left out of the squad. Who were arguably better players.

    Hopefully that era has past, and the players will now be picked on their merit.

    Having said that, Adriano, remember him? disgraced from Flamengo, wanted on alleged drug trafficking charges? went off to Italy to avoid arrest, so it is said?, well he came on for the second half against Ukraine. Out of the thirty passes he attempted, twenty eight went astray. Will he get another chance? not if I was the trainer, but what do I know.

    As for the alleged charges re Wagner Love and Adriano, well, let's not forget that Abrovonich, the biggest thief in the history of the country, and the owner of Chelsea, is wanted in Russia for crimes against the state.

    But he was able to go there last year without any problems.

    Amazing what money can do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinredshanks View Post
    As to Lucas and the national team, I will quote Menezez who stated "he is a intricate part of our 2014 World Cup squad". I don't think you can get much higher praise than that.

    I really do despair with the armchair fans who slate him. he is a good squad player, and when played in the correct position, does really well.

    Against Ukraine, he played alone in front of the back four, his distribution led to both of Brazils goals. And but for poor crossing, and finishing, would have led to two more goals.

    But of course all those armchair fans know so much more than Rafa or Menezez, or Hodgson.
    Why do you think he hasn't particularly hit it off at Liverpool? Do you think that Menezez just knows how better to use him? or is it something else?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KopiteCrash View Post
    Why do you think he hasn't particularly hit it off at Liverpool? Do you think that Menezez just knows how better to use him? or is it something else?
    I have not checked, but I think Lucas played under Menezez at a previous club.

    I say that because of a post match interview, on Brazil tv. Lucas stated that he had always got on really well with him, (Menezez) that he was given a much freer role in midfield, and able to go forward when possible, knowing he would get cover. Not those exact words, he was speaking in Portuguese

    And he has played Lucas both left mid, alongside Ramires, centre in 4-3-3 and alone in front of the back four. All have produced good results.So I'm not sure, is it the players around him? Or are some of us too critical at Liverpool?

    Rafa certainly rated him, Menezez does, perhaps Mr Hodgson can get him to perform to his full potential. He is a bit of a workhorse, and he does make mistakes. But he does appear to read the game well,and feed good forward passes, when given the freedom to move out of position.

    I think it might be the freedom, he is given. I noticed Rafa tried that a few times and it appeaded to work. But with all the other injury probs etc.

    As previously mentioned, he had a good fast solo run at the Ukraine goal, from the halfway line, then he scuffed the shot. But the fact he saw the space and took the chance, was good. (he should have taken it two steps further, he would have got a penalty). But he is still quite young, I am sure he will learn and improve.

    What has been interesting, in the three games that Menezez has been in charge, he has tried, 4-2-2-2 / 4-1-3-2 / 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 formations. And he has successfully changed the formation mid-game.

    No doubt this is part of "getting to know" players, but it is also inventive.

    Whilst we all knew Rafa as a very technical manager, always making notes etc, (not a criticism, that was his way); Menezez is said to go with his gut reaction. Well so far it appears to be working. Three games, three wins, seven goals scored, none conceded.

    'tho Ukraine did have a perfectly good goal disallowed, even the commentators' here in Brazil could not understand why the goal was not given. But then the media here is factual, and honest; even if heavily patriotic when thing go well. Which is as it should be.

    (They have a special jingle which the play, whenever a Brazilian player scores a goal. Whether at club level or National, they also use it for all other sports).

    The real test of course will be the Argentine game on Nov. 15th. There is no love lost between them. It might be billed as a "friendly" but there is a lot of National pride on both sides.
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    Yup, Menezes is a previous manager, the one who brought Lucas to prominence.

    As for his freedom, its possible he is being restricted by the changing face of the English games. The midfield pairing is less and less attack minded and it's very possibly that Lucas' freedom is curbed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KopiteCrash View Post
    Yup, Menezes is a previous manager, the one who brought Lucas to prominence.

    As for his freedom, its possible he is being restricted by the changing face of the English games. The midfield pairing is less and less attack minded and it's very possibly that Lucas' freedom is curbed.
    Hi KC hope you come back and check this thread, I tried to reply to you in todays match thread, but it had been closed. There should have been two big grin smilies with that last post, it was not meant to offend, sorry if I worded it badly, unreserved apology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinredshanks View Post
    Hi KC hope you come back and check this thread, I tried to reply to you in todays match thread, but it had been closed. There should have been two big grin smilies with that last post, it was not meant to offend, sorry if I worded it badly, unreserved apology.
    No problem at all.
    For Lucas to perform for Brazil but have a nightmare today shows something wrong not just with him but the general team.
    Does a narrow formation suit Lucas?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KopiteCrash View Post
    No problem at all.
    For Lucas to perform for Brazil but have a nightmare today shows something wrong not just with him but the general team.
    Does a narrow formation suit Lucas?
    I think it is this (Lucas, from Fridays paper) "I enjoy playing for him, (Menezez) I am allowed to play, given more freedom, to go forward, it is totally different to playing in the EPL", with Brazil I know there will always be someone to cover for me.

    In the Brazil team he has David Luis, Andre Santos, Thiago Silva, Daniel Alves and Ramires, who all move across in a 4-1 back line allowing Lucas to go forward. Lucas stays back when Ramires goes forward.

    Now take a look at Liverpools back four? do they compare?

    Also it seems to change a lot throughout the game. You can't get a fix on it. And if I can't get a fix on it, albeit I only see the game on tv. then how do the opposition deal with it?

    Is it all a question of confidence?. Knowing the players behind you will cover for you. One real howler he made today, was really the fault of Cole and Konchesky leaving him in the mire. True, he messed up, but he should not have been left in that position in the first place.

    Still, I'll save all the Lucas chat for the next Brazil game, lots of other interesting news to report.

    I'll do this in separate posts. Pele on Neymar and Dorival Junior, The Liverpool takeover, Bruno in court, Ricardo Teixeira and the CBF getting criticised, plus a few other bits of gossip.
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    Ricardo Teixeira and the CBF criticised

    Now to explain this fully, we need to look at the history of the CBF (That's the Brazilian equivalent of the FA). First we take a look at João Havelange

    Jean-Marie Faustin Goedefroid de Havelange (born May 8, 1916), usually known as João Havelange, was the president of FIFA from 1974 to 1998, and received the title of Honorary President when leaving office. He succeeded Sir Stanley Rous and was succeeded by Joseph Blatter. Since 1963, João Havelange has been a member of the International Olympic Committee and is currently the longest serving active member. He was born in Rio de Janeiro.

    Between 1958 and 1975, João Havelange served as the president of Confederação Brasileira de Futebol (CBF), and between 1955 and 1963, he was a member of the Brazilian Olympic Committee.

    In May 2006 British investigative reporter Andrew Jennings' book Foul! The Secret World of FIFA: Bribes, Vote-Rigging and Ticket Scandals (Harper Collins) caused controversy within the football world by implicating Havelange in an alleged international cash-for-contracts scandal following the collapse of FIFA's marketing partner ISL, and revealed how some football officials have been urged to secretly repay the sweeteners they received.

    He has won several awards, like Cavalier of the Légion d'honneur (France), the Order of Special Merit in Sports (Brazil), the Commander of the Cavaliers of the Ordem Infante Dom Henrique (Portugal), the Cavalier of the Vasa Orden (Sweden) and the Grand Cross of Elizabeth the Catholic (Spain). In 1998, he was elected FIFA's president of honor.

    On August 24, 2006 Havelange was named honorary Vice President of the Brazilian Ice Sports Federation (CBDG) for his support in the development of winter sports in Brazil.

    João Havelange holds a doctorate in Law, acquired when he was 24.

    A stadium was built for the 2007 Pan American Games which was named Estádio Olímpico João Havelange in tribute to Havelange.

    Trinidad's Centre of Excellence is also named after him.

    Impressive CV, and whilst now in his nineties, his word still holds some weight in the corridors of power, both with F.I.F.A. and the C.B.F.

    Now we take a look at the present President of the C.B.F.

    Ricardo Terra Teixeira born June 20, 1947 is the current president of the Brazilian Football Confederation (CBF) since January 16, 1989. Teixeira has been chosen to remain on the presidency of CBF at least until the end of the 2014 FIFA World Cup to be held in Brazil completing then over 25 years as head of the institution.

    Born in Carlos Chagas, Ricardo Teixeira married Lúcia Havelange, the daughter of João Havelange. After almost thirty years later, divorced in 1997. His son, Ricardo Teixeira Havelange born in 1974 bears his mother's last name, opposing the Brazilian custom.

    In 1989, Teixeira was first elected the president of CBF succeeding Octávio Pinto Guimarães, and defeating Nabi Abi Chedid, the president of Federação Paulista de Futebol at the time. Teixeira is currently serving his sixth term as head of the CBF.

    Now I hope all that was not too long a read, but unless you know the history, the present criticisms do not make a lot of sense.

    Recently the CBF have been holding meetings in order to appoint members of the committee to organise the running of the 2014 World Cup. And just as Joao Havelange wielded "total power", so it seems Ricardo Teixeira also wishes for total power.

    There has been criticism in the past about the election of Teixiera, mainly on the basis that he is the (ex) son in law of Havelange. That being the reason he got the job in the first place.

    This time the criticism is aimed at Teixiera, for a number of reasons.

    First of all, he has ignored suggestions to look at how the South African WC was run. And wants everything to be kept "in house".

    Then he appointed Joanna Havelenge to the board of the committee. And Joanna, just happens to be his daughter.

    The most critical of all, was Silvio Torres, a Federal Deputy.who said, "For a World Cup you cannot appoint a committee soley based on personal choice, his daughter for example, she has no experience of any major project on this scale".

    He added, "Carlos Langoni has only been appointed because he is Teixieras' personal advisor, Everybody should be given due consideration, not just personal friends, the consequences could be serious".

    When asked which would be a better model/plan. he answered, "We should look closely at South Africa, they are a country with similar problems to our own here in Brazil, with transport crime and accommodation. For example, this proposed committee has no plans to look at hotel accommodation, which is a serious problem".

    There have been many allegations made regards the CBF and finances, but no solid proof, so I will not mention them here.

    It will be some weeks before all this is resolved. But on a personal note, I would add that transport and hotels are a big problem. Even local transport is jam packed solid at times, and you have to book well in advance at times, if you plan to travel any distance.

    The stadiums also have to be decided. Marracana has already been closed for a total refurb, Not due to open till mid 2013. Hope it doesn't turn into another Wembely stadium saga. Also it appears Mourambi stadium in Sao Paulo has been discounted from the proposed list, Which is more due to transit and access problems.

    Still a long way to go, let's hope they get it right.
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    Pele gives his support to Mano Menezes, and tells Neymar to grow up.

    As mentioned earlier, there were many raised eyebrows as to young wunderkid Neymar being excluded from the Brazil squad to play Iran and Ukraine. Menezez came in for much criticism.

    Well there was a reason for Manos' decision, which had nothing to do with Neymars playing ability. It was a hard slap on the wrist.

    Neymar had a huge row with the (now ex) Santos trainer, Dorival Junior, apparently this was a full on attack on Dorival, and in full view of players and members of the press. It is said to be the reason why Dorival left Santos. He now manages Atletico Mineiro.

    Neymar has since been very outspoken in his criticisms of Dorival, and many of the outbursts have been quite vitriolic.

    This has been seen as unprofessional conduct by Mano Menezez.and hence he has been discounted from the Brazil national selection, until further notice.

    Pele has said he fully supports Manos stance on the matter, stating that Neymar is not a child, that he needs to act his age and act like a professional. That as the national coach, Mano has to set the players examples.

    Pele continued, "To be able to play good football is a gift from God, he (Neymar) is a very good player, anyone can see that, but he plays more for the television cameras than for the team". (ouch).

    Pele then had another dig at Maradona. Stating that he should not be held up as a good example of a footballer. "He gained a present from God, the ability to play good football, but he abused that gift, he was also using drugs, this is not a good example for young players".

    Pele has previously said, "Maradonna?, yes, a good player, but he never scored a goal with his head" referring to you know what goal.
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    I've find talented players like that strange. You are good with the ball, and you have been honing that ability for the most part of your child life. You make massive sacrifices. You possibly move away from home and have to adapt.

    So why the petulant attitude? Surely the lifestyle that made Neymar the footballer he is should also have matured him? Is it the spotlight?

    It's very odd. Although Neymar does seem to take the biscuit - I don't know what coach in europe would take him having been responsible for a managers exit. Which is a shame because I saw him against the US and he was monstrous - a star in the making, IF he can stop being such a brat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KopiteCrash View Post
    I've find talented players like that strange. You are good with the ball, and you have been honing that ability for the most part of your child life. You make massive sacrifices. You possibly move away from home and have to adapt.

    So why the petulant attitude? Surely the lifestyle that made Neymar the footballer he is should also have matured him? Is it the spotlight?

    It's very odd. Although Neymar does seem to take the biscuit - I don't know what coach in europe would take him having been responsible for a managers exit. Which is a shame because I saw him against the US and he was monstrous - a star in the making, IF he can stop being such a brat.
    I don't understand it either KC. Perhaps it's when a person comes from a poor background, suddenly to be thrust into the spotlight, more money than he knows what to do with , young girls falling over him if he enters a night club. Adulation from the fans, it can easily give one a false sense of self importance. That they can do whatever they want.

    (same could be said of Bruno, rooney and some others attitudes).

    In Naymers case, the fact that Junior then left as trainer, jumped or pushed? must reflect on the club in a bad way. A young (albeit very talented) player, throws a tantrum like a schoolboy. Yet it is the trainer who has to leave. I think Naymer should have been given a big fine, and benched for a few games. Send a messsage to the rest of the players as well.

    AKA Manos action and Brazil. If you act that way, you are not ready to represent your country. I think he will get picked for the Argie game, as long as he behaves himself in the meantime. And hopefully he will have learnt a lesson,

    I think the subject would make a good thread, ie; if Torres or Gerrard had a stand up with Rafa, (I won't say RH 'cos I know what the answer would be), and the matter could not be resolved, would we get rid of the player or Rafa?

    Would make a good talking point, I might do it later tonight.
    Last edited by robinredshanks; 18-10-10 at 18:35.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinredshanks View Post
    Brazil 2 Ukraine 0

    From a Liverpool point of view, Lucas had a very good game, he started both of the moves off for the two goals. Not assists, but his passes forward got the attack going.
    doesnt sound like the player we know all he plays is square balls and back passes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marco35 View Post
    doesnt sound like the player we know all he plays is square balls and back passes.
    Backtrack through this thread, I think I understand why the performances he puts in for Brazil are so much better than those he puts in for Liverpool.

    I think it is to the "freedom" he mentions, that he gets whilst playing for Brazil.

    Is this a problem with the player? or a problem as to how he is instructed to play, in the team set up?.

    A really good player should be able to adapt, but Lucas is not a REALLY GOOD player, he is a GOOD TEAM PLAYER, a workhorse,. But the team has to understand one another, and I don't think that is happening at the moment, at Liverpool. Not just with Lucas, but with the whole team.

    And Liverpool do not have the quality in their squad members, that the Brazil team have.

    A good player in a good team will perform well, a good player in an average team, aka Liverpool, will struggle.

    I think that is the sad truth of the matter. When he plays for Brazil he has quality players around him. When he plays for Liverpool, who does he have?

    Name me six Liverpool players, other than the obvious three, who would get a starting place for Chelsea, City, Utd, or Spurs. They don't exist, that is the weakness of the squad.

    People can blame RH all they like, but Danny Murphy is better than poulson, J.A.Risse, old as he is, is better than konchinski, Hyypia, would kick aggar or kyriagos out of the park.

    We have some good players, but only three great players, therin lies the problem.
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    More on the Bruno saga:

    I don't want this thread to become a "Bruno" thread, but the continuing saga does give some "black humour" to be enjoyed.

    On Saturday Bruno was allowed a convivial visit. or as it is called here "visita intima".

    However, the visitor was a bit of a surprise, rather than welcoming his girlfriend, Fernanda Gomez Castro, the blonde "mystery Lady", (see earlier posts or ask me questions, I promise I will answer) who had previously stated that she , "looked after" Elizas child, whilst Eliza was "dealt with", the visitor was Ingrid Oliveira, his dentist.

    Ingrid arrived at the Nelson prison at 7AM Saturday morning, and after undergoing a two hour long, full body examination, stayed with Bruno in his six square metre cell, for the next thirty three hours.

    The couple were allowed the privacy of a curtain, behind which were prison guards. The cell has bathroom facilities, and a wash basin.

    Ingrid was permitted to take in drink, after due inspection; and food for the couple. She insists Bruno is a kind and gentle man, not capable of having anything to do with the disappearance and supposed murder of Eliza. (O' how love is so blind).

    Now whilst these (convivial visits) are allowed, and are in fact a part of Brazilian law, it does have it's consequences.

    If Ingrid becomes pregnant, then this would be a defence for Brunos release.

    Remember Ronnie Briggs?

    Any comments?.
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  19. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinredshanks View Post
    Backtrack through this thread, I think I understand why the performances he puts in for Brazil are so much better than those he puts in for Liverpool.

    I think it is to the "freedom" he mentions, that he gets whilst playing for Brazil.

    Is this a problem with the player? or a problem as to how he is instructed to play, in the team set up?.

    A really good player should be able to adapt, but Lucas is not a REALLY GOOD player, he is a GOOD TEAM PLAYER, a workhorse,. But the team has to understand one another, and I don't think that is happening at the moment, at Liverpool. Not just with Lucas, but with the whole team.

    And Liverpool do not have the quality in their squad members, that the Brazil team have.

    A good player in a good team will perform well, a good player in an average team, aka Liverpool, will struggle.

    I think that is the sad truth of the matter. When he plays for Brazil he has quality players around him. When he plays for Liverpool, who does he have?

    Name me six Liverpool players, other than the obvious three, who would get a starting place for Chelsea, City, Utd, or Spurs. They don't exist, that is the weakness of the squad.

    People can blame RH all they like, but Danny Murphy is better than poulson, J.A.Risse, old as he is, is better than konchinski, Hyypia, would kick aggar or kyriagos out of the park.

    We have some good players, but only three great players, therin lies the problem.
    i watch lucas and think this guy could be a good player for us then you see him play on sunday and think god please play a forward pass.i dont know if the tactics dont allow him the freedom you say he has with Brazil or that hes afraid to go forward in case he leaves to much of a gap between him and the back four. i believe that when we bought him he was actually an attacking midfielder. but it wouldnt be us if we didnt buy someone and play them in the wrong posistion.
    Last edited by marco35; 19-10-10 at 17:59.
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    The case of the goalkeeper Bruno has gained much attention from the Brazilian media, especially a few months ago, the newspapers of the murder and spoke only the coldness of the murderers.

    Although it is very certain that the goalkeeper Bruno is behind the murder he probably will not be condemned. which is VERY sad. 1. the laws of Brazil are a drug. 2. the model's body was not found and probably never will. And Bruno is a person stands with status and that counts a lot in Brazil.
    __________________________________________________ __

    And our league is very interesting. is missing a few rounds to the end and some teams are competing intensely to be champions. I just hope that neither the Fluminense and Corinthians able hauhauahua I hate them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3dSBraZil View Post
    The case of the goalkeeper Bruno has gained much attention from the Brazilian media, especially a few months ago, the newspapers of the murder and spoke only the coldness of the murderers.

    Although it is very certain that the goalkeeper Bruno is behind the murder he probably will not be condemned. which is VERY sad. 1. the laws of Brazil are a drug. 2. the model's body was not found and probably never will. And Bruno is a person stands with status and that counts a lot in Brazil.
    __________________________________________________ __

    And our league is very interesting. is missing a few rounds to the end and some teams are competing intensely to be champions. I just hope that neither the Fluminense and Corinthians able hauhauahua I hate them.
    Hi R3dS I take it from your user name, you are in Brazil? Where are you, I'm near Rio.

    What do you think of the G4 discussions at the CBF, I don't 100% understand it And havn't had time to do research, only what I've read in "Lance".
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  22. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3dSBraZil View Post
    The case of the goalkeeper Bruno has gained much attention from the Brazilian media, especially a few months ago, the newspapers of the murder and spoke only the coldness of the murderers.

    Although it is very certain that the goalkeeper Bruno is behind the murder he probably will not be condemned. which is VERY sad. 1. the laws of Brazil are a drug. 2. the model's body was not found and probably never will. And Bruno is a person stands with status and that counts a lot in Brazil.
    __________________________________________________ __

    And our league is very interesting. is missing a few rounds to the end and some teams are competing intensely to be champions. I just hope that neither the Fluminense and Corinthians able hauhauahua I hate them.
    PS welcome to the boards by the way, 1st post have some green
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    Hello from Brazil, let's start with some good news and some fun news.

    Having got out of bed to watch the safety car win the S Korean grand prix, thought I should bring this thread up to date.

    First of all, a belated happy birthday to Pele. who reached the grand old age of seventy on Saturday.

    Now some would argue his D.O.B. was the 21st Oct. but he insists it was the 23rd. And who are we to argue with one of the, if not THE greatest footballers' ever to kick a ball.

    Not only a great footballer, but also a great ambassador for the game and for Brazil. And still pro active, in trying to promote all the good things in our beautiful game. Long may he continue.

    I wish for the day I might have the honour to meet him.

    This might amuse you,

    Cartoon in Thursdays "Lance" As previously mentioned, Luxemburgo recently took over as trainer at Flamengos, following a very dire performance from Silas. (one win five losses. in nine games).

    Luxemburgo appears to have breathed some fresh air into the sails of the team. with three wins and one draw out of four.

    Sunday sees a showdown with arch rivals Vasco, where it is said Luxemburgos "breath of air" will be tested. Is it just a brief gust of wind, or a continuos breeze towards greater things?

    So back to the cartoon.The picture is a caricature of Luxemburgo with a rather haggard looking eagle resting on his arm. Both of course clad in the red and black strip.

    The "balloon" caption reads, "O.K. now you know you can fly, perhaps we can try to fly a little higher next time"

    I could not help but think, it should be Roy with a Liverbird on his arm.
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  24. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinredshanks View Post
    I don't understand it either KC. Perhaps it's when a person comes from a poor background, suddenly to be thrust into the spotlight, more money than he knows what to do with , young girls falling over him if he enters a night club. Adulation from the fans, it can easily give one a false sense of self importance. That they can do whatever they want.

    (same could be said of Bruno, rooney and some others attitudes).

    In Naymers case, the fact that Junior then left as trainer, jumped or pushed? must reflect on the club in a bad way. A young (albeit very talented) player, throws a tantrum like a schoolboy. Yet it is the trainer who has to leave. I think Naymer should have been given a big fine, and benched for a few games. Send a messsage to the rest of the players as well.

    AKA Manos action and Brazil. If you act that way, you are not ready to represent your country. I think he will get picked for the Argie game, as long as he behaves himself in the meantime. And hopefully he will have learnt a lesson,

    I think the subject would make a good thread, ie; if Torres or Gerrard had a stand up with Rafa, (I won't say RH 'cos I know what the answer would be), and the matter could not be resolved, would we get rid of the player or Rafa?

    Would make a good talking point, I might do it later tonight.
    Indeed! Do we know of any instances where there have been standups between players and managers and what the various outcomes were?
    Remember the England/Switzerland game where allegedly Shearer and Ince (???) put Hoddle up against the wall at half time - I think England drew?? didn't lose any way but were appalling in the first half due to Hoddle's tactics.
    Incidentlally was Hodgson managing Switzerland in that game?
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    Further update on the general press here.

    Well. suffice to say, last weeks news was all about Liverpool. But nothing was mentioned, that was not reported in the UK press and on these boards.

    All I would say, is that the general reaction to the takeover was very positive, not so much because of the new owners, N.E.S.V. but more so because hicks was gone. And it is nice to know we get such positive press here.

    As previously mentioned, to say he (hicks) is not liked here, would be akin to saying that maggie thatcher was not popular with the Miners.

    The press given to the rooney saga was quite fun. Again as previously mentioned, as much as they appreciate his playing ability, they do, (very often) question his intelligence. (who dosen't?), also that of the manc supporters.

    A full page was given to the report that rooney wanted to leave, but most of the comment was first of all on the way he announced his decision, remarks made etc, and secondly, on the reaction of the fans. Questions were asked, "would other supporters from other teams, turn so rapidly? There were pictures of fans outside his mansion showing fans with banners calling rooney a whore etc And mention of Coleen. Which I am sure you have all seen.

    Suffice to say, the manc fans were given a bad press to say the least,.

    The following day, when rooney signed a new contract, the general opinion was that he should have been told to go, that to give him a new contract, sent a bad message to the players, they are bigger than the club.

    Much as the mancs are respected for their success, they are not popular as a team. They are considered arrogant and disrespectful, from fergie down.

    I think that just about sums them up nicely,
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  26. #56  
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    Quote Originally Posted by geralion View Post
    Indeed! Do we know of any instances where there have been standups between players and managers and what the various outcomes were?
    Remember the England/Switzerland game where allegedly Shearer and Ince (???) put Hoddle up against the wall at half time - I think England drew?? didn't lose any way but were appalling in the first half due to Hoddle's tactics.
    Incidentlally was Hodgson managing Switzerland in that game?
    Given "The Liverpool way" from the time of Bill Shankly, I don't think it would be reported. Unlike the fergie/Beckham incident when he, what was it? threw a boot at him. And the "hairdrier treatment" reports?

    I'd like to think that there are some "stand up" arguments in the dressing room, between players, or between player and manager. It would prove the passion they have for winning. But I would not want them to be made public, nor would I like to think they would become an "issue". ie; manager v player.

    I'd expect all involved to behave like "grown ups", remember who they are playing for, and clear the air, forgive and forget (sorry about the cliches) and get on with the job they are very well paid to do. Unlike Neymar, who acted like a spoilt brat, Those were more or less Peles' words.

    And if the players have respect for the team/club, they should not disclose too much in any book they might care to write/have written.

    A bit like the official secrets act really, some things are better not known.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robinredshanks View Post
    Further update on the general press here.

    Well. suffice to say, last weeks news was all about Liverpool. But nothing was mentioned, that was not reported in the UK press and on these boards.

    All I would say, is that the general reaction to the takeover was very positive, not so much because of the new owners, N.E.S.V. but more so because hicks was gone. And it is nice to know we get such positive press here.

    As previously mentioned, to say he (hicks) is not liked here, would be akin to saying that maggie thatcher was not popular with the Miners.

    The press given to the rooney saga was quite fun. Again as previously mentioned, as much as they appreciate his playing ability, they do, (very often) question his intelligence. (who dosen't?), also that of the manc supporters.

    A full page was given to the report that rooney wanted to leave, but most of the comment was first of all on the way he announced his decision, remarks made etc, and secondly, on the reaction of the fans. Questions were asked, "would other supporters from other teams, turn so rapidly? There were pictures of fans outside his mansion showing fans with banners calling rooney a whore etc And mention of Coleen. Which I am sure you have all seen.

    Suffice to say, the manc fans were given a bad press to say the least,.

    The following day, when rooney signed a new contract, the general opinion was that he should have been told to go, that to give him a new contract, sent a bad message to the players, they are bigger than the club.

    Much as the mancs are respected for their success, they are not popular as a team. They are considered arrogant and disrespectful, from fergie down.

    I think that just about sums them up nicely,
    Ouch. That said, the reaction of those fans who stood outside his house was disgraceful. They looked like a chav army.

    So where does that tag of Man U came from? Is it jsut developed or is there a particular situation that stands out in your mind?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KopiteCrash View Post
    Ouch. That said, the reaction of those fans who stood outside his house was disgraceful. They looked like a chav army.

    So where does that tag of Man U came from? Is it jsut developed or is there a particular situation that stands out in your mind?
    Hi KC If by the "Tag" of man u, you mean how they are viewed here. Why are they not liked. Well fergie plays a large part of it of course. He has been critical of Brazilian players in the past. And, it is thought, without "just cause".

    Brazilians are open to criticism, when deserved, but they do not take kindly to the type of attacks we all know fergie can give.

    One thing that really annoyed "Lance" (which is the daily sports paper that is akin to the Bible) was rooneys attack on Liverpool and Gerrard, on mutv.

    We then beat the mancs at old toilet, and the headline in the next days paper was "shut your mouth rooney".

    I handed that page into the reception at Anfield for the attention of the press office, but never heard any more of it.

    With all the problems surrounding Flamengos' Bruno in jail, accused of kidnap and complicated in a murder charge, Adriano and Wagner love accused of various things etc, the fans have at no time become hostile to the playaers.

    The fans either keep quiet, or they show their support. but they do not dissent.

    When Zico was sacked, the fans came out in support. They all wished Silas a good future, despite his dismal record, and they now give Luxemburgo 100% backing. The team and the results are what is important.

    They liken Flamengo fans to Liverpools, And I can understand why.

    I'm looking forward to tonights' game (more so being in the local bar with some local pals and the atmosphere) with Vasco. Only a mid table game, but they are fierce rivals.

    Of course, there is another, perhaps more important game to consider before that one.
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    More on the Bruno saga.

    If you have just joined the thread here, you'll need to go back through the thread, to check the background on the Bruno story.

    Solicitor Jose Arteiro Cavalcante Lima, who is acting on behalf of the mother of Eliza Samudio, the missing, presumed dead/murdered; ex girlfriend of Bruno, has stated to a tribunal in Rio, that Bruno is "without doubt" the father of Elizas child, now in the care of Elizas mother, Sonia de Fatima Moura.

    And that proceedings can now start to decide how much "pension" (child maintenance), Bruno will have to pay.

    However, the D.N.A. tests/results have still not been completed, and it has not been proved that Bruno is the father of Elizas child, Bruninho.

    Bruno has persistently stated the child is not his, Eliza is/was a porn star and prostitute, who had taken part in group sex, with Bruno, and others, around the time she conceived.

    What we must first of all remember, is that Elizas mother, deserted the family home when Eliza was just a young child, and had little contact with her daughter, for many years.

    Elizas Father was originally caring for the child, but the courts decided, that due to previous, unproven, allegations; of sexual abuse against minors, that paternity rights should be given to the mother.

    Now there are a number of scenarios here.

    If, as is expected, Bruno is not convicted of the actual murder of Eliza, he will probably return to his profession as a goalkeeper. If not at Flamengo, then at a European club. He is/was, a very good goalkeeper.

    If it is proved, by the D.N.A. tests, that he is indeed the father of the child, the percentage of any monies he earns, that will have to be paid, under Brazil Law, to the Guardian of the child. ie; Elizas mother, are almost 30% of his income.

    However these monies will be contested by Brunos estranged wife, and mother of his two children. But that will still leave Bruno with a small percentage of any monies he might earn.

    If; on the other hand, the D.N.A. tests "prove" that Bruno is NOT the father of the child, then effectively, the whole case against him and the other suspects falls apart.

    No body, or any remains of a body, have been found. A few blood stains, and a number of conflicting statements, are all that the police really have to go on. (where is Inspector Morse?)

    The whole case against the suspects is based on Bruno not wanting to pay maintenance, to "pay Eliza off" but when she asked for more, they killed her.

    If he is proven not to be the father, where is the motive?

    Of course, everybody knows, that Elizas mother is motivated only by money. Which appears to be the crux of the whole case.

    In answer to the claims of Sr Lima, (the mothers solicitor) Ercio Quaresma, Brunos solicitor, said, "I didn't know he (Lima) was the new owner of the diagnostic clinic".
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    Last but not least, for this weekends letter, let's look at some football news here in Brazil.

    A lot of attention is being given to the recent meeting of FIFA. And to be more precise, the use of technology in the modern game.

    The CBF are very much in favour of technology, they cite the mistakes made at the World Cup in South Africa, where almost every game had at least one bad decision, either by the referee or linesman. Some of which decided the result.

    FIFA, after a previous meeting, last April; stated very strongly in their press statement; "we will never use video technology", and that is where the barrier lies.

    FIFA have opted for the additional goal line assistants. They have made a statement that they will find impossible to go back on. Whilst the present board are still in command.

    But the CBF argue, would the goal line assistants, have noticed the handball by a Brazil player, which led to a goal scored for Brazil, and would they have noticed the Argentinian goal that was so obviously offside.

    Plus the fact, these assistants have no jurisdiction over the game, they can only advise the referee.

    As for the argument regarding "goal line technology", they of course cite the Lampard goal against Germany.

    Given the strength of feeling here in Brazil, I would think that that there will be some major changes before the 2014 World Cup.

    One argument put forward is the cost. the additional assistants have to be paid, plus travel expenses and hotel fees etc. Whilst the video technology is there without any additional cost.

    Also the fact, that video replays are in use, successfully; in other sports, rugby, cricket and tennis, to name but three.

    The CBF will keep fighting.

    On a personal note, watching the game v Napoli, when Koncheski blocked the ball on the line, did you notice that the extra official, was on the pitch, close to the six yard box.

    Question. What would happen, if a miss-hit shot, or a scuffed clearance, hit one of these "extra" assistants, and rebounded out of play, or even; into the goal. would a corner be given?, would the goal count?

    Don't laugh, it's going to happen one day. And if a beach ball can score a goal, why not a goal-line assistant.

    FIFA need to wake up to the twenty-first century. But then it only took the FA five years to approve goal nets.
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