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Thread: FA release Suarez evidence reasons

  1. #841  
    Liverpoolforme is offline First team regular
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    I don't uderstand why we can't go to court over it, I mean if the FA say it's their rules we can't it's a bit silly cause it's them we want to challange so we are effectively questioning their judgement.

    Does this mean they can literally do what they want with no consequences?
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  2. #842  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolforme View Post
    I don't uderstand why we can't go to court over it, I mean if the FA say it's their rules we can't it's a bit silly cause it's them we want to challange so we are effectively questioning their judgement.

    Does this mean they can literally do what they want with no consequences?
    I genuinely can't understand this part.
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  3. #843  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolforme View Post
    I don't uderstand why we can't go to court over it, I mean if the FA say it's their rules we can't it's a bit silly cause it's them we want to challange so we are effectively questioning their judgement.

    Does this mean they can literally do what they want with no consequences?
    I think Suarez should do it -without the club's name (Obviously we'll be supporting him all the way through)
    This means that they can't dock us points, as we're not the ones that are going against the FA as such - it's a player doing it
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  4. #844  
    naturalskill is offline First team regular
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    I'm sure many thousands of us have now read this report but can anyone please point out one single piece of "evidence" contained within it?

    Can you?

    Yes or No?

    If you can, please explain

    If you can't point to any actual evidence that PROVES Luis Suarez is guilty, please answer "no"

    Yes or No ?
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  5. #845  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaWearShades View Post
    Imagine if it had been Evra and an English player speaking in English. What chance they would have taken Evra's understanding of what was said over the English player's. But of course FA is not racist, Luis is.
    hmm shame it was not terry calling a psade a spade
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  6. #846  
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    Yes it's all evidence, weak or otherwise.

    What there is none of is a different thing - proof. And there's certainly no proof.
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  7. #847  
    Paullfc1976 is offline LFC Hall of Fame Resident
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    We're being urged to not pursue this now, and to basically accept the ban.
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  8. #848  
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  9. #849  
    Liverpoolforme is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrootmanAndRobben View Post
    Yes it's all evidence, weak or otherwise.

    What there is none of is a different thing - proof. And there's certainly no proof.
    That's the problem though isn't it when you judge something through probability and not without reasonable doubt. They can look at things anyway they want as long as they word it correctly, they have been very clever in their statement, no wonder it took them so long to write it out.
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  10. #850  
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrootmanAndRobben View Post
    I genuinely can't understand this part.
    We can go to court but for the club to take the FA on would be suicidal as they are corrupt. The CAS rules are though if you appeal a decision and lose you then can't take it to them.
    We either have to lodge a complaint with the Cas now, or try to start a civil action against the FA. Both of with I believe we would be advised against by the clubs and owners legal teams.
    As I've said the most likley outcome is not appeal the ban but let suarez take a private civil action against the FA.
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  11. #851  
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    Quote Originally Posted by lawyerlawyer View Post
    I am no expert in FA regulations, but civil cases, as contrasted with criminal cases, are always based on a balance of probabilities rather than proving beyond a reasonable doubt. This means to find Suarez guilty Evra only need to prove that there is a more than 50% chance that his statements are accurate, or that Suarez did racially abuse Evra.

    However, given that there has been no teammates of either side to support Evra's claims, no eye or ear witnesses of any kind, no footages explicitly showing Suarez blurting the alleged words, I do not see how even a balance of probabilities can be established here.

    In law, there are legal principles and there is the issue of public policy. In the perspective of a neutral, it is not hard to see why Suarez is found guilty based on the FA's version of public policy, condemn Blatter's recent comments, showing the tough stance of English football on racism, etc. However, this case reeks of a senseless over-emphasis on such policies, totally negating the more primary need of legal justice to first establish a prima facie case. In other words, it seems like a witch hunt, with Suarez the person being sacrificed, with or without evidence.

    Even if we talk about policy alone, this decision is not entirely satisfactory. Indeed, it creates a dangerous precedent that may create further troubles and open an indeterminate floodgate in the future, and may even extend to realms outside of football.

    The subjective conclusion I get from this whole saga so far is that a few culturally insensitive British football officials just condemned a player of mixed heritage of racism, with blatant disregard for evidence, cultural differences, linguistic differences and the accused' version of events. No matter what Suarez says he will be found guilty. The decision to take Evra's account of events has been predetermined.

    It must be noted through it all that Suarez himself has done plenty of charity work for the less fortunate, regardless of the colours of their skin. He has visited Africa countless of times, helping the needy and setting up valuable funds to their benefit. He probably has more black friends than Evra. The irony of it all is that, the people sitting in an aircon room issuing this verdict has probably never helped a single unfortunate African kid in their entire lives combined.
    Great post!
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  12. #852  
    Vanoord is offline Lock up your Alpacas
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    In my opinion, there are a couple of grounds for appeal.

    I think Suarez can not get out of any charge arising from the two instances of the use of the word 'negro' outside the penalty area. Those alone are sufficient for a ban.

    Where I think we have got a chance is over the goalmouth incident.

    There is no corroborating evidence from other players and no video evidence. Thus, it's only a case of one person's word against another.

    The opening section of the conclusions about the alleged goalmouth incident deal with the panel's opinion that Suarez's evidence was considered to be unreliable. That, to me, does not constitute sufficient grounds to find him guilty of such a serious offence.

    I would suggest that Suarez's recollection of the events of that game may be unreliable in their exact accuracy, but that such unreliability is only to be expected, given the heated circumstances in which they occurred.

    I am also suspicious of Evra's exact assertion that Suarez called him 'negro' on five occasions. That comment was made immediately after the game; and to the panel. However, on French television, he said it was ten times.

    The very fact That Evra's evidence was so exact; and so fixed suggests to me that he settled on his story very early on and that he stuck to it.

    Just because someone is entirely consistent does not necessarily mean they are being truthful: it means they are being consistent and sticking to a story that has been agreed with their legal advisors.

    On the matter of Evra's reliability, he has been proven to have made untruthful allegations of racism before. That, to me, casts some furthe doubt on his testimony, particularly when considered against him delivering what appears to have been a well-rehearsed statement to the panel.

    In short, I don't think that the alleged goalmouth incident can be proven without corroborating evidence from other players; or from video evidence.

    The club should, therefore, appeal against that aspect of the ruling, with the aim that the seriousness of the incident is reduced.


    The second aspect that I believe needs to be appealed is that the suspension is Sufficiently harsh as to permanently brand Suarez as a racist, when the evidence to do so is not absolutely proven.

    That is to say, the punishment is considerably greater than the ban alone.

    On that basis, a stricter burden of proof should apply, reinforcing the Argument that Suarez should not be convicted on the grounds of Evra's evidence alone, who has been a poor witness in the past.


    As to the chances of success, were the case to be referred to a different panel (as in my opinion it should be), then I suspect it would come down to the underlying instructions from the FA and what they wish to see happen.

    My personal opinion is that Suarez, on balance, could not complain about a ban of between two and four games for the incidents outside the goalmouth, which can be described as 'lost in translation'.

    However, the approach of the panel is to make an example of him; and, I fear, part of an ongoing campaign to shield John Terry from the full fury of the media over allegations that have been made against him.

    This is a political game more than a battle for the truth; and Suarez has allowed himself to be the FA's sacrificial pawn.
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  13. #853  
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    This is all very unpleasant.
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  14. #854  
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturalskill View Post
    I'm sure many thousands of us have now read this report but can anyone please point out one single piece of "evidence" contained within it?

    Can you?

    Yes or No?

    If you can, please explain

    If you can't point to any actual evidence that PROVES Luis Suarez is guilty, please answer "no"

    Yes or No ?
    No there doesn't appear to be any evidence to prove suarez guilty and it admits that verdict was reatched on basis of probability (evra was probably telling the truth).
    In an actual court of law this would never happen as guilt has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Hence why suarez taking them to civil court is best option as FA can't punish the club and case would be found in favour of suarez.
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  15. #855  
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    I'm watching some television, drinking some nice Tropicana orange juice, scrolled down, opened the link and sprayed it all over myself. Hilarious!

    :laugh:
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  16. #856  
    Paullfc1976 is offline LFC Hall of Fame Resident
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    I am very worried about this; our name is getting dragged through the mud. No one is backing us since the findings have come out.
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  17. #857  
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    reading the article it seems like suarez did himself no favours

    giving various different accounts of the events to various different people is never going to help your cause

    he may well be innocent, but sadly, from a unbiased stand point,. it looks very much the makings of a guy who made a mistake and was paniced into telling a few fibs

    if kuyt, commoli and kenny all gave different evidence then sadly suarez has been telling a few lies along the way and it caught up with him

    judging by the findings, there is no grounds to appeal

    1. there seems to be no way for suarez to wriggle out of it
    2. the fa suddenly wont give in and take the ban away

    think he should accept the ban, and learn from it
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  18. #858  
    -SilkySkills- is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paullfc1976 View Post
    I am very worried about this; our name is getting dragged through the mud. No one is backing us since the findings have come out.
    people just don't want the hassle , only the brave
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  19. #859  
    Paullfc1976 is offline LFC Hall of Fame Resident
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatCornholio View Post
    people just don't want the hassle , only the brave
    Is it as simple as that?

    Everything that has been done since by the club has been criticised.

    The statement, the t-shirt and Glen Johnson's tweets.

    We've seemed certain that the FA's independent committee were wrong and we were standing by our man.

    The statement gets released and now it seems concrete enough for many people and it gives justification for the FA banning Suarez for 8 games; in fact some are actually saying it should be more.

    I wonder how the rest of the squad are reacting?

    Are we going to appeal?

    Or do we think it would be pointless, and just accept the punishment?

    If we are to appeal then we have to have extremely good grounds, and make a water tight case, leaving no stone unturned.

    This could get very very ugly, and we have to be prepared for the club to be heavily criticised by many many people, should we appeal.
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  20. #860  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paullfc1976 View Post
    I am very worried about this; our name is getting dragged through the mud. No one is backing us since the findings have come out.
    Nobody was backing us before the findings came out.
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  21. #861  
    Liverpoolforme is offline First team regular
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    Who gives a **** if not many outside of the club are backing us.

    We don't need anyone who wants to eat up whats the FA serves them.
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  22. #862  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paullfc1976 View Post
    I am very worried about this; our name is getting dragged through the mud. No one is backing us since the findings have come out.
    They just want us to bend over and take our punishment they want it to go away, it will when we get justice
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  23. #863  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheVikingMushroom View Post
    Ah so this is something that could be 'Lost in Translation' as it has 2 meanings? Can you see the irony there?
    I see your point but the irony is much more farreaching.
    I agree Luis is probably being made a scapegoat on an important issue and on an international stage, remember the Blatter gaff?
    It is not surprising that it is LFC v ManU with the rest of Fifa and Uefa drooling over the English dirty washing being aired in public.
    If the English interpretation is the crux of this matter then perhaps the independent tribunal should have consisted of French, Spanish and Uruguayans.
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  24. #864  
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    Quote Originally Posted by allthewayLFC View Post
    reading the article it seems like suarez did himself no favours

    giving various different accounts of the events to various different people is never going to help your cause

    he may well be innocent, but sadly, from a unbiased stand point,. it looks very much the makings of a guy who made a mistake and was paniced into telling a few fibs

    if kuyt, commoli and kenny all gave different evidence then sadly suarez has been telling a few lies along the way and it caught up with him

    judging by the findings, there is no grounds to appeal

    1. there seems to be no way for suarez to wriggle out of it
    2. the fa suddenly wont give in and take the ban away

    think he should accept the ban, and learn from it
    Think of "Banged up abroad" ...
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  25. #865  
    Paullfc1976 is offline LFC Hall of Fame Resident
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolforme View Post
    Who gives a **** if not many outside of the club are backing us.

    We don't need anyone who wants to eat up whats the FA serves them.
    I am just saying that we are going to get heavily criticised; of course we shouldn't care, but when people start levelling all sorts of accusations at the club you love, it's hard to not let it get to you.
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  26. #866  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paullfc1976 View Post
    I am very worried about this; our name is getting dragged through the mud. No one is backing us since the findings have come out.
    In case you missed it...........nobody has been backing us all along and now they have reason to point and shout they are going to make the most of it.

    On the subject of the club's name being dragged through the mud, yes it's not nice but that's life and if you think the likes of Shankly would have put up with this you don't have much understanding of the very foundations of this club.

    The press are very Man U biased so they are having a field day, which may just come back and bite them in any civil actions.

    Just stand firm, no war worth winning was ever won easy
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  27. #867  
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    Quote Originally Posted by milowokie View Post
    My name is Luis Alberto Suárez Díaz, Dutch Footballer of the Year, Coppa America Player of the Tournament, loyal servant to the true King, promoter of Tomando Conciencia, victim of a murdered reputation and I will have my vengeance, in this game or the next.
    now that makes sence

    sorry to op
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  28. #868  
    Paullfc1976 is offline LFC Hall of Fame Resident
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    Quote Originally Posted by photoholic View Post
    In case you missed it...........nobody has been backing us all along and now they have reason to point and shout they are going to make the most of it.

    On the subject of the club's name being dragged through the mud, yes it's not nice but that's life and if you think the likes of Shankly would have put up with this you don't have much understanding of the very foundations of this club.

    The press are very Man U biased so they are having a field day, which may just come back and bite them in any civil actions.

    Just stand firm, no war worth winning was ever won easy
    Yeah, I had noticed it.

    But I am making the point it is going to get worse.
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  29. #869  
    Liverpoolforme is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paullfc1976 View Post
    I am just saying that we are going to get heavily criticised; of course we shouldn't care, but when people start levelling all sorts of accusations at the club you love, it's hard to not let it get to you.
    It can be difficult I agree but I have no doubt this will only bring us together as a tighter and stronger unit.

    There are intelligent people out there who wont eat this up, we do have others on our side Like the Uraguyan FA and Guss Poyet.

    We will beat this, maybe not win the appeal as I have no doubt they will stick by their guns but I am sure we will do what is best for Suarez and the club.

    It's about making a stand for what is right even if no one supports you.
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  30. #870  
    -SilkySkills- is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paullfc1976 View Post
    Is it as simple as that?

    Everything that has been done since by the club has been criticised.

    The statement, the t-shirt and Glen Johnson's tweets.

    We've seemed certain that the FA's independent committee were wrong and we were standing by our man.

    The statement gets released and now it seems concrete enough for many people and it gives justification for the FA banning Suarez for 8 games; in fact some are actually saying it should be more.

    I wonder how the rest of the squad are reacting?

    Are we going to appeal?

    Or do we think it would be pointless, and just accept the punishment?

    If we are to appeal then we have to have extremely good grounds, and make a water tight case, leaving no stone unturned.

    This could get very very ugly, and we have to be prepared for the club to be heavily criticised by many many people, should we appeal.
    We would be foolish to back down now , if we show blood then the sharks will start to circle
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