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Thread: FA release Suarez evidence reasons

  1. #1081  
    cravenz is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by oooo0Rallo0000 View Post
    How long should it take for our lawyers to digest this?
    Not as long as me. They would be used to actually dealing with such cases in theory; and definitely be more learned than I am. The firms that I have worked in also utilise teams, so the time spent on dealing with something like this could be just a day. In the firm I was in, the "leader" would send out the case, ask for their opinion as to whether they had a "prima facie" case to work on. If they answer positively, the legal team will take up the case, otherwise, they will tell the potential client that they won't take up the case.

    In legal studies alone, usually, I can skim because I don't need to be as thorough, but if the club are looking to appeal, the whole judgement itself should be looked at very thoroughly. Again, in all honesty, they should be done with it in a day or two max, especially if they work in teams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oooo0Rallo0000 View Post
    Who gave you the black eye?
    :laugh:

    Better than getting the stinkeye, I guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PauloMossy View Post
    3 accusations in total... none progressed.
    Thanks.

    Was there a written report?
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  4. #1084  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cravenz View Post
    Not as long as me. They would be used to actually dealing with such cases in theory; and definitely be more learned than I am. The firms that I have worked in also utilise teams, so the time spent on dealing with something like this could be just a day. In the firm I was in, the "leader" would send out the case, ask for their opinion as to whether they had a "prima facie" case to work on. If they answer positively, the legal team will take up the case, otherwise, they will tell the potential client that they won't take up the case.

    In legal studies alone, usually, I can skim because I don't need to be as thorough, but if the club are looking to appeal, the whole judgement itself should be looked at very thoroughly. Again, in all honesty, they should be done with it in a day or two max, especially if they work in teams.
    We need to bring Skrtel to tighten the defence asap. h34r:
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImPaulite View Post
    The other side of this is that if we leave it, and accept the punishment, then there is precedent set for racist claims to lead to an instant punishment without any evidence.

    That just can't be allowed to happen, otherwise scumbags like Evra will just accuse people as and when they please.
    While I agree with you in principle, in terms of business why should the club care if this sets a precedent for skim to no evidence in future cases? I'd assume that FSG would implement a mandatory cultural integration and awareness program after this incident to ensure all active and new players were broadly versed in norms and acceptable behavior under FA rules and in England generally.

    For owners, it's about mitigating risk to their investments, not challenging on their own the follies and foibles of foolish federations. If other owners came on board, that would be another thing entirely, but it isn't LFC's responsibility to carry on with the fight alone. The risks in terms of money and reputation are likely too great.
    Last edited by Roshi98; 2-1-12 at 15:03.
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  6. #1086  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrant View Post
    Appeal and take the FA to court for deformation of character is possibly the best option.

    Typically the press are trying to crucify Suarez and LFC
    I take it we mean 'defamation'.
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  7. #1087  
    cravenz is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roshi98 View Post
    While I agree with you in principle, in terms of business why should the club care if this sets a precedent for skim to no evidence in future cases? I'd assume that FSG would implement a mandatory cultural integration and awareness program after this incident to ensure all active and new players were broadly versed in norms and acceptable behavior under FA rules and in England generally.

    For owners, it's about mitigating risk to their investments, not challenging on their own the follies and foibles of foolish federations. If other owners came on board, that would be another thing entirely, but it isn't LFC's responsibility to carry on with the fight alone. the risks in terms of money and reputation is likely too great.
    Personally speaking, the FA or the PFA or whatever should be the one administering racism education, not the club because that way the FA can define finitely what can or cannot be said. Whereas if clubs run their own, they should have an automatic defence that the classes were run, but no one knew that word "xyz" would be racist and the club has done their part and their player was unaware. Then again, this case will be precedence that it probably doesn't matter what the defendant says or believes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImPaulite View Post
    The other side of this is that if we leave it, and accept the punishment, then there is precedent set for racist claims to lead to an instant punishment without any evidence.

    That just can't be allowed to happen, otherwise scumbags like Evra will just accuse people as and when they please.
    Going by how this "independent" panel went about it, I don't have much hope for an appeal actually working in our favour. Do we fight this to the end even with no hope of winning?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds86 View Post
    Going by how this "independent" panel went about it, I don't have much hope for an appeal actually working in our favour. Do we fight this to the end even with no hope of winning?
    If we accpet this ban are we not accpeting the fact that Suarez is a racist?

    We need to fight this until we are blue in the face, and if we have any backbone, we will.
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    Would anyone like conclusive proof that Suarez testimony is correct and Evra's is false and also that the panel knows this but has engineered the verdict?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cravenz View Post
    Not as long as me. They would be used to actually dealing with such cases in theory; and definitely be more learned than I am. The firms that I have worked in also utilise teams, so the time spent on dealing with something like this could be just a day. In the firm I was in, the "leader" would send out the case, ask for their opinion as to whether they had a "prima facie" case to work on. If they answer positively, the legal team will take up the case, otherwise, they will tell the potential client that they won't take up the case.

    In legal studies alone, usually, I can skim because I don't need to be as thorough, but if the club are looking to appeal, the whole judgement itself should be looked at very thoroughly. Again, in all honesty, they should be done with it in a day or two max, especially if they work in teams.
    I suppose they will be doing it round a big table with coffee and takeaway like in the movies :tongue2: If we all club together and send you some takeaway would that speed you up?

    Do you know if this is the same set of lawyers we used during the epic swindle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaythered View Post
    Would anyone like conclusive proof that Suarez testimony is correct and Evra's is false and also that the panel knows this but has engineered the verdict?
    Yes please...
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  13. #1093  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cravenz View Post
    Personally speaking, the FA or the PFA or whatever should be the one administering racism education, not the club because that way the FA can define finitely what can or cannot be said. Whereas if clubs run their own, they should have an automatic defence that the classes were run, but no one knew that word "xyz" would be racist and the club has done their part and their player was unaware. Then again, this case will be precedence that it probably doesn't matter what the defendant says or believes.
    I completely agree. Frankly, it's shocking negligence in the extreme that the FA set forth a "zero tolerance" policy yet failed to implement any kind of standardized integration of and cultural awareness program for clubs to follow/emulate, particularly for foreign players. Had such a system been in place, Luis' use of "negro", no matter the cultural context, would have resulted in a ban without any real controversy or drama. Instead we're all here talking law, ethics, credibility, and socio-linguistics. It's utterly mad! :blink:
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  14. #1094  
    cravenz is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by oooo0Rallo0000 View Post
    I suppose they will be doing it round a big table with coffee and takeaway like in the movies :tongue2: If we all club together and send you some takeaway would that speed you up?

    Do you know if this is the same set of lawyers we used during the epic swindle?
    Haha...I'm actually pretty tired at the moment

    No, we are using different lawyers. I wish we used Lord Grabiner, but then again, this is a different issue and not within his expertise unfortunately (I'm guessing).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roshi98 View Post
    :laugh:

    Better than getting the stinkeye, I guess.
    ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrams View Post
    If we accpet this ban are we not accpeting the fact that Suarez is a racist?

    We need to fight this until we are blue in the face, and if we have any backbone, we will.
    Yes, I agree. It just feels hopeless at the moment, it might just be my hangover though. :laugh:

    Oh just read the bit where Suárez says his wife and some friends calls him negro.
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  17. #1097  
    Carlton Facepalmer is offline Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaythered View Post
    Would anyone like conclusive proof that Suarez testimony is correct and Evra's is false and also that the panel knows this but has engineered the verdict?
    Do you have something comical in store?
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  18. #1098  
    Carlton Facepalmer is offline Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedKite View Post
    I take it we mean 'defamation'.
    Not in Arry's tax case, he's going for the former 'deformation'!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by oooo0Rallo0000 View Post
    Yes please...
    I am working on how to deliver the information to you all in a way that allows everyone to sit back in amazement and with clear clarity say "xxxx me, oh yeah, he's right". At which point we hit the press and social media.

    With that said, it will take me a couple of hours and intend to post this at five o'clock. Having studied the report once more I have identified the evidence that this is a miscarriage of justice. I wish now to go over these findings and bring them to you in a chronological and logical manner instead of the time, event and quote flip flopping the report leads you down to distract you from this fact.

    Should anyone wish to examine the evidence and uncover the truth themselves it is contained betweeen paragraphs 85-106.

    I promise I am not grandstanding and believe the evidence is there clear as day. By 5 o'clock I will prove this to you all or admit myself I am wrong and duly apologise and beg your forgiveness.
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  20. #1100  
    cravenz is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Just reading about the applicable test regarding the rules. To be honest, I know Suarez's lawyer had no choice to argue the way he did, but I think he missed a trick and I would just have admitted to having an objective test qualified by context and not argue for a subjective one as it just seems daft. Even then, I'm not sure what was said, but I think he argued the bit weakly from what is written.
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  21. #1101  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton-Facepalmer View Post
    Do you have something comical in store?
    I promise you not comical.
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  22. #1102  
    cravenz is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaythered View Post
    I am working on how to deliver the information to you all in a way that allows everyone to sit back in amazement and with clear clarity say "xxxx me, oh yeah, he's right". At which point we hit the press and social media.

    With that said, it will take me a couple of hours and intend to post this at five o'clock. Having studied the report once more I have identified the evidence that this is a miscarriage of justice. I wish now to go over these findings and bring them to you in a chronological and logical manner instead of the time, event and quote flip flopping the report leads you down to distract you from this fact.

    Should anyone wish to examine the evidence and uncover the truth themselves it is contained betweeen paragraphs 85-106.

    I promise I am not grandstanding and believe the evidence is there clear as day. By 5 o'clock I will prove this to you all or admit myself I am wrong and duly apologise and beg your forgiveness.
    Maybe I should not read the report further then! :laugh:

    Edit: for those saying they think that this is an open and shut case and we are done, I would beg to differ. Because this is a "first" of its kind, there are a lot of areas of contention, and the biggest one I've come to is the application of the right test. I haven't read their full conclusion yet, but unless they cover what I think is a glaring issue, there is scope to appeal on the wrong application of a test which could change the complexity of the case or overturn it entirely. Thing is, whilst there is contention, dispute and a new area, there is room for argument. It is not as water tight as some are making out.

    That said, I have no intention of bigging up our chances of an appeal. But I would certainly contest areas within legitimate reason.
    Last edited by cravenz; 2-1-12 at 15:30.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaythered View Post
    Would anyone like conclusive proof that Suarez testimony is correct and Evra's is false and also that the panel knows this but has engineered the verdict?
    Yes please.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds86 View Post
    Going by how this "independent" panel went about it, I don't have much hope for an appeal actually working in our favour. Do we fight this to the end even with no hope of winning?
    See ..LotR
    Aragon; on, if to create a diversion so that the little hobbits can have only a slight chance of reaching their goal. Namley Mordor into whence they must cast... the Ring .
    thier only chance of survival, is if the men on the west hold firm and
    cast thier own judgment on Saramon ,the all seeing eye.


    of course we must appeal if only to say this is effin perpostousterous

    come june/july and Rooney is back on board and terry is kicking the french it wont make a efffff of difference
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaythered View Post
    I am working on how to deliver the information to you all in a way that allows everyone to sit back in amazement and with clear clarity say "xxxx me, oh yeah, he's right". At which point we hit the press and social media.

    With that said, it will take me a couple of hours and intend to post this at five o'clock. Having studied the report once more I have identified the evidence that this is a miscarriage of justice. I wish now to go over these findings and bring them to you in a chronological and logical manner instead of the time, event and quote flip flopping the report leads you down to distract you from this fact.

    Should anyone wish to examine the evidence and uncover the truth themselves it is contained betweeen paragraphs 85-106.

    I promise I am not grandstanding and believe the evidence is there clear as day. By 5 o'clock I will prove this to you all or admit myself I am wrong and duly apologise and beg your forgiveness.
    What is your legal background?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cravenz View Post
    Maybe I should not read the report further then! :laugh:

    Edit: for those saying they think that this is an open and shut case and we are done, I would beg to differ. Because this is a "first" of its kind, there are a lot of areas of contention, and the biggest one I've come to is the application of the right test. I haven't read their full conclusion yet, but unless they cover what I think is a glaring issue, there is scope to appeal on the wrong application of a test which could change the complexity of the case or overturn it entirely. Thing is, whilst there is contention, dispute and a new area, there is room for argument. It is not as water tight as some are making out.

    That said, I have no intention of bigging up our chances of an appeal. But I would certainly contest areas within legitimate reason.
    My findings are nothing to do with the subjective objective test application. But it does add more weight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRob67 View Post
    See ..LotR
    Aragon; on, if to create a diversion so that the little hobbits can have only a slight chance of reaching their goal. Namley Mordor into whence they must cast... the Ring .
    thier only chance of survival, is if the men on the west hold firm and
    cast thier own judgment on Saramon ,the all seeing eye.


    of course we must appeal if only to say this is effin perpostousterous

    come june/july and Rooney is back on board and terry is kicking the french it wont make a efffff of difference
    :laugh: Nice analogy.
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  28. #1108  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontBelieveThePress View Post
    What is your legal background?
    I hate to dissapoint you but none. Financial background. But it is not a legal mind that is required to see this, a logical one is all. It's not as complicated as you would think. I have been on this thread the whole time and the issues have not been pointed out yet or on any other forum. Paragraphs 85-106 are the crux of the matter and there is a glaring issue within them. But the people who have put the report together have done so in a manner that leads you away from it. I had a moment of clarity and it brings everything Suarez has stated in line and everything Evra (almost everything) into dispute as well as point the finger at the panel for knowing this and misleading people.
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  29. #1109  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roshi98 View Post
    While I agree with you in principle, in terms of business why should the club care if this sets a precedent for skim to no evidence in future cases? I'd assume that FSG would implement a mandatory cultural integration and awareness program after this incident to ensure all active and new players were broadly versed in norms and acceptable behavior under FA rules and in England generally.

    For owners, it's about mitigating risk to their investments, not challenging on their own the follies and foibles of foolish federations. If other owners came on board, that would be another thing entirely, but it isn't LFC's responsibility to carry on with the fight alone. The risks in terms of money and reputation are likely too great.
    Why should we care? It could happen again to us. That's why we should care.

    There's also the general morality in it of standing up for an innocent man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaythered View Post
    I hate to dissapoint you but none. Financial background. But it is not a legal mind that is required to see this, a logical one is all. It's not as complicated as you would think. I have been on this thread the whole time and the issues have not been pointed out yet or on any other forum. Paragraphs 85-106 are the crux of the matter and there is a glaring issue within them. But the people who have put the report together have done so in a manner that leads you away from it. I had a moment of clarity and it brings everything Suarez has stated in line and everything Evra (almost everything) into dispute as well as point the finger at the panel for knowing this and misleading people.
    I've read it few times myself.

    I think those pages are quite obviously one sided. They dismiss everything Suarez says on a hunch that it is wrong.

    It was obvious from the start they were being biased, when they pointed out the foul in which Evra got a knock on his knee.

    Why mention that he was kicked on his bad knee, making it out that Suarez had tunnel vision on his poor knee and proceeded to injure it.

    Its a joke, all 115 pages of it. I am 99% certain a lawyer would go to town on this.

    If I made a complaint to the police the day of the game that Suarez said something racist and this was the evidence after a months worth of work, they would laugh at me and throw it in the bin.
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