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Thread: Biased FA

  1. #1 Suarez Biased FA 
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    Every lfc fan need to read this.

    The verdict in the Suarez case hung on the reliability of the witness testimony. In blunt summary, the FA decided that Evra was a more reliable witness and therefore found Suarez guilty. Here are the crucial parts of the testimony with some analysis…

    Is the Word “Negro” Racially Offensive?
    The panel of language experts used by the FA described the connotations of the word “negro” as follows:

    “It is important to grasp that the word “negro” is ambiguous in all countries and regions of Latin America. The word “negro” is by no means, however, always used offensively. The term can also be used as a friendly form of address to someone seen as somewhat brown-skinned or even just black-haired. It may be used affectionately between man and wife, or girlfriend/boyfriend, it may be used as a nickname in everyday speech, it may be used to identify in neutral and descriptive fashion someone of dark skin; several famous people in Uruguay are known as “el negro/la negra such-and-such”.

    The experts concluded that if the panel believed Evra’s version of events, they could assume the word “negro” was used in a racially offensive way. However, they say of Suarez’s version of events:

    “The experts concluded their observations on Mr Suarez’s account as follows. If Mr Suarez used the word “negro” as described by Mr Suarez, this would not be interpreted as either offensive or offensive in racial terms in Uruguay and Spanish-speaking America.”
    The panel therefore needed to deem one of the accounts to be false in order to establish guilt, since Suarez’s defence was proved to be inoffensive in racial terms.

    How Events Transpired
    The conversation began with Evra saying “Concha de tu hermana” which translates as “your sister’s pussy”. Evra says he meant “****ing hell”. There is no dispute about who started the argument: it was Evra. There is no dispute about who threw the first insult: Evra. The dispute is whether Suarez’s reaction used racially offensive words. The FA ruled that it did.
    So, how unreliable a witness was Suarez, and how reliable was Evra?
    Immediately after Evra’s insult, the video evidence that can be lip-read shows Suarez saying “What did you say?” Suarez told the FA his words were “What did you say?” That is a reliable statement.
    They both agree that Evra then said “Why did you kick me?” What they dispute is the answer. Evra claims Suarez said “Because you are black”. Suarez claims he said “it was just a normal foul” then shrugged his shoulders. The video evidence shows Suarez shrugging his shoulders, backing up his testimony. So far, the video evidence supports Suarez.

    Next comes the crucial piece of Suarez evidence, the part the FA panel relied heavily on to find him guilty. Suarez said in his statement “I was trying to defuse the situation”. Under cross examination, Suarez more or less admitted that he was not trying to defuse the situation. The FA used this admission to discredit Suarez as a witness.

    The really important thing he says comes just after this comment: “Under no circumstances was this action intended to be offensive and most certainly not racially offensive. It was not in any way a reference to the colour of PE’s skin.” This, the FA deemed, was also untrue.
    The other evidence the FA panel relied on was the fact that Suarez’s story changes slightly. However, all of the changes can be fully explained by the fact that the situation happened very quickly and the fallibility of memory means that the exact sequences of events often merge into one. The FA acknowledge this as a possibility but do not accept it as an excuse.
    There are inconsistencies in Evra’s testimony. In his evidence, Evra states that he told the players after the game that Suarez said he kicked him “porque tu eres negro” (“because I am black”). None of the four Spanish speaking Manchester United players recalled Evra saying this in their witness testimonies. In the FA’s report, they confirm this is the case but state that it is possible the players simply forgot he said it. They do not point to the other possibility: that he did not say it. Under this scenario, it could be used as evidence that Evra is an unreliable witness.

    There were four pieces of evidence presented by Suarez’s lawyer to the FA that suggest Evra is an unreliable witness. The interesting one is the coin toss. Here is the transcript of that incident:

    “Mr Marriner explained that he used a FIFA coin which is blue on one side and yellow on the other. He asked Mr Evra, as the visiting captain, to call the colour. Mr Marriner tossed the coin, it came down yellow, and he awarded it to Steven Gerrard who elected to stay in their current ends. Manchester United had kick off. Mr Evra remonstrated that he had called correctly but, Mr Marriner said, he had not. Mr Evra then spoke to Ryan Giggs about it, and Mr Marriner walked over to Mr Evra to assure him that he (Mr Marriner) had got it right. Mr Evra’s evidence was that when such a coin was used, he always called yellow given that the alternative, blue, is a Manchester City colour, which he would never call. The toss came down yellow and so Mr Evra knew that he had won it. He particularly wanted to change ends at the start, he explained to the referee that he had called yellow, and why he had done so. Mr Evra was angry but the referee did not change his mind.”
    Evra either could not remember what colour he chose or lied about it afterwards. This at best questions his reliability as a witness and at worst suggests he is willing to lie to gain an advantage. Crucially, he reacted outwardly far more to the coin toss than he did in the goalmouth when he claimed that Suarez used the word “negro” five times. Had that really been the case, surely Evra’s reaction would have been much stronger?
    Another inconsistency is Evra’s use of the term “ten times” to describe how many times Suarez allegedly said “negro”. Evra has retracted this claim and said it was a “figure of speech”. Really?
    What about previous form? Suarez has no history of any form of racism and is an ambassador for racial equality. Evra, on the other hand, has been at the centre of a racism scandal in the recent past. It was alleged that ground staff at Chelsea racially abused Evra in 2008. The allegation was thrown out and here is how the panel described Evra’s testimony:“We find Mr Evra’s description exaggerated… There was no good reason for Mr Evra to have run over and barged Mr Griffin as he did. It was unnecessarily and gratuitously aggressive of Mr Evra… Mr Evra’s suggestion that he was concerned about Mr Strudwick’s safety is farfetched. They were two grown men having an apparently strong verbal disagreement but no more than that. The clear implication by Mr Evra that Mr Griffin’s pitchfork gave some reason for concern about Mr Strudwick’s safety is ridiculous…We find Mr Evra’s account exaggerated and unreliable. It is an attempt to justify a physical intervention by him which cannot reasonably be justified…”

    Compare this to the conclusions drawn by the panel in the Suarez case:
    “We considered it improbable that Mr Evra would act in such a dishonest way in order to damage the reputation of a fellow professional whose footballing skills he admires, with whom he had had no previous run-ins, and who he does not think is a racist.”
    There is therefore evidence to suggest that both Suarez and Evra made statements that were not 100% true during this case, and that Evra has a history of doing this. By using Evra’s account as “the truth”, the FA have concluded that Suarez’s entire evidence can be completely discredited whilst the inconsistencies in Evra’s testimony, and past, can be ignored.

    http://www.empireofthekop.com/anfiel...ble-witnesses/

    We support you Luis!
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  2. #2  
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    I'm appalled by this!

    I admit that I was close to thinking that maybe we should just accept the punishment, even though I believed that a man had been branded something he is not, (and that shames me) but having read that post I now believe we should take this as far as we can go. If that means a counter sue in a court of law for defamation then so be it.

    the whole thing stinks of yesterdays fish.

    Thanks for posting this. You should also post it in the main forum if you haven't already done so.
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  3. #3  
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    Thank you very much for posting this. An excellent piece. As Bils said, stick it in the main forum if you haven't already.
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    excellent post
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  5. #5  
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    I'm lost for words, realy i am.

    Some times i think that the FA and the politicians are having a contest
    on "The stupidest group of people on earth".

    Great post mate.
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  6. #6  
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    The panel openly admit they had a lot of problems with why someone who was on the evidence available, so obviously not racist in any form, would utter a racial insult.

    They chose to ask the defence to guess as to why the plaintiff should lie about it. Then they said - we don't like your guess - it's implausible - so we accept the plaintiff is telling the truth.


    The language experts used, said that in the initial confrontation (initiated by Evra) the phrase used by Evra could be used as an expletive or an insult. In the final summations they decided it was an expletive and not an insult.

    The language experts also said that in Luis' home land region, 'negro' can be used both as insult or general form of address. I'm sure this is true - but it's more important as to how an individual would use it not how different individuals might use it. They decided Luis used it as an insult.

    It all points to their state of mind when analysing the facts. The approaches were biased.
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  7. #7  
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    dont care if the fa and media together will lie and ignore the real truth of luis's inocence and certantly unprovable guilt,were gona take them all on and make them look even more corrupt and foolish than they do themselves anyway!
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  8. #8  
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    The coin story is very interesting and just shows how bad a witness and unreliable source he is.

    I must admit I keep saying to myself that Suarez might be in the wrong somewhere but every time I read something about this it just pushes me further and further in the direction of this whole thing being some crazy set up....

    We really should take this as far as we possibly can.
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  9. #9  
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    What I don't understand is this.
    I'm sure you all remember last year sometime, Wayne Rooney swore to sky sports television cameras, after he scored a penalty. Now, the law says any racial or abusive language is frowned upon. Now just think, Rooney knew that kids were watching at home, and it was before the watershed, yet he still decided to come out with 'The F Word' in a very agressive manner, and I know for a fact he didn't get nothing like an 8 match ban. Now Suarez used the word negro, and he meant this in a friendly manner, as this is what they say over in south america, and the lad hardly speaks a word of English. Yet rooney who knows English perfectly well - I think - :laugh: came out with abusive language that was meant to offend. Suarez said something in spanish - in a friendly manner, and gets an 8 match ban. I would also like to know when Patrice Evra is going to get sanctioned for abusive language, as he called Luis an F***ing Rat. I wonder if the FA will go on Luis suarez's word alone and give Evra an 8 match ban, and a £40,000 fine, for racial OR abusive language, just like they should of done with Wayne Rooney.
    It isn't called the football asscoiation anymore, its called the Ferguson Association.
    The FA Is A Corrupt Disgrace.
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    Cumbrian. is online now View Kop Profile LFCOnline Off-Topic Poster of the Year
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    Someone forgot to close this forum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cumbrian View Post
    Someone forgot to close this forum
    What made you think of even trying to post in this forum at this time?! :laugh:
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    Cumbrian. is online now View Kop Profile LFCOnline Off-Topic Poster of the Year
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoontobeChampions View Post
    What made you think of even trying to post in this forum at this time?! :laugh:
    The posts above. I don't even have EST anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cumbrian View Post
    Someone forgot to close this forum
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    ????:wacko:
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    Quote Originally Posted by ---Aquaman--- View Post
    What I don't understand is this.
    I'm sure you all remember last year sometime, Wayne Rooney swore to sky sports television cameras, after he scored a penalty. Now, the law says any racial or abusive language is frowned upon. Now just think, Rooney knew that kids were watching at home, and it was before the watershed, yet he still decided to come out with 'The F Word' in a very agressive manner, and I know for a fact he didn't get nothing like an 8 match ban. Now Suarez used the word negro, and he meant this in a friendly manner, as this is what they say over in south america, and the lad hardly speaks a word of English. Yet rooney who knows English perfectly well - I think - :laugh: came out with abusive language that was meant to offend. Suarez said something in spanish - in a friendly manner, and gets an 8 match ban. I would also like to know when Patrice Evra is going to get sanctioned for abusive language, as he called Luis an F***ing Rat. I wonder if the FA will go on Luis suarez's word alone and give Evra an 8 match ban, and a £40,000 fine, for racial OR abusive language, just like they should of done with Wayne Rooney.
    It isn't called the football asscoiation anymore, its called the Ferguson Association.
    The FA Is A Corrupt Disgrace.
    Hence my Ussername, until such times as the F.Arce resind or reduce the punishment


    P.S Lock-In on the Forums lol
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    The football club should never be made to feel ashamed at supporting and standing by one of their players - after the dirty Mancs stood by and backed that dirty Frenchman Cantona back in 1995 after his kung-fu attack on that pleb Palace fan - just coz he said something to him (God why do Frenchmen get so touchy when people say things to them?).

    Ah well, the ultra-reliable Mr Evra - who lied about the coin-toss at the start, clearly faked a foul in the 58th minute; and was a bastion of honesty and reliability after the match at Stamford Bridge - and don't mention him leading the mutiny of the French team at the last World Cup - yes, this most honest of men was clearly called the N-word 91 times in 90 minutes, sorry your honour, it was ten times he used the Spanish term, I told my Latin Mancs afterwards - what? They don't remember? but ... but ... mais oui, monseur ... it was five times ... gasp, non, musn't mention five times when we have only won it trois ... three.
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    I know, I would be extremely disappointed if the club were too worried about the damage any further action might do to the club's reputation to pursue this further and simply let Luis go this alone. I don't think they will though.

    I read the report last night and although I expected it to be utter tripe, the commission really exceeded my expectations. Especially in relation to that foul - what was it they wrote "we decided it was a deliberate foul". Sorry, was *that* part of their remit?! Anyone can see that Evra was diving as usual, and making a meal out of nothing. You only have to look at that clip to show how deceitful he is, just like all his disgusting team mates.

    Speaking of which, how come all the players who Evra supposedly told after the match all started their accounts with the same words and couldn't remember anything precisely? Strange.
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    ... anyway, Suarez should have used the only word worth using on Evra - the good old-fashioned honest-to-goodness C - word!!!!
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    Just wanted to be part of the few who were able to post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arwales View Post
    Just wanted to be part of the few who were able to post.
    h34r:
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    good grief sky sports news are now reporting that pressure mounts on lfc to end their public support of suarez and an appeal could lead to a longer ban, :angry:, wtf.
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    I've just gone through the report and I'm flabbergasted.

    The decision isn’t based on facts but rather the ‘balance of probability’. I.e. Suarez ‘probably’ meant the word in a racist manner due to the hostile situation. But, at the same time, the language experts concluded the word isn’t offensive or used in an offensive manner in Spanish speaking countries. On top of that, there is no video evidence of him repeatedly calling Evra the word as claimed by Evra. Very wishy washy and provides an insight into Kenny’s thinking when he made the statement about the FA setting out to charge Suarez before they considered all of the evidence. It’s as if they have worked backwards. I.e. let’s charge and convict him then put together a report of the evidence in line with that conviction. I really hope we appeal. A joke of a decision.

    That’s coming from a black African.
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    Amazing how quickly that joke of an organisation called the FA (I'm pretty sure I know what the abbreviation means!!) swooped down on Luis on the sole evidence of one person with a highly dubious record of honesty and integrity (oh, and amnesia!!). Let's also not forget that they're the outfit who in the past employed a failed journo who used to present "Look North" and who was wheeled into BBC breakfast TV recently to bolster the highly flawed FA's views. Regardless of the eventual outcome, how can they justify castigating a mixed-race South American who is an ambassador for anti-racism on the word of one of Ferguson's saddos whilst at the same time not making any apparent progress on the blatantly obvious abuse dished out to Anton Ferdinand by a (former) white captain of England? It's going to be interesting to see how they squirm out of this one. I would applaud the club if they took the FA and their so-called "independent panel" to the European Court of Human Rights on a charge of racial discrimination and defamation of character. YNWA Luis.
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    What is most astonishing to me, though, is that the FA are seemingly unanswerable/unaccountable to any higher body - there doesn't seem to be a definitive consensus really on where we can go from here, if the club decide to do so, but where is the fairness in appealing to the body that was charging you in the first place? I just don't get it. When I keep re-reading portions of the report that others quote on here, I still can't get my head around just how blatant the bias is.
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    More reliable source purely on what jersey he wears when he plays :angry:

    ****** the F.A
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    Great Post Mate, F.A seriously #*#k~# uphmy:
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    someone should post this in the redcafe and see what their reaction is :laugh:
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    Whatever it is.
    Apologise and forget it.
    After the ban, do ** 100% for the club
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    From the very beginning of this case it was clear that Luis Suarez would be given an unfair trial; he is meant to be given a hearing before he was charged, he was not given one. The FA showed Patrice Evra the video evidence allowing him to give his evidence while it was being shown, Luis Suarez was not given this luxury. Patrice Evra in an interview with Canal + said that it Suarez had called him a ''n****r, on more than 10 occasions,a word that according to Evra he does not even like to pronounce never mind hear it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4_fQXwIV4E#t=0h35m20s someones telling a lie). He then however in his evidence stated that Suarez called him a 'negro' on 7 occasions, hardly credible evidence is it? Lets examine the word negro then shall we? If Negro is such a racist word then why, in the U.S.A, the most political correct nation in the world is one of the options on the census for race, Negro? The FA concluded that this was a racial insult and decided to ban Suarez for 8 games, however according to the linguistic experts, the way Suarez claimed to have used the word would not be considered offensive in Riverplatenese Spanish never mind racially offensive. Both the FA and Evra agree that Suarez is NOT a racist, however by banning him for 8 games implies that he is a racist which he will be tarnished as for the rest of his life. Luis Suarez has been found guilty on ‘the probability of fact’ which does not hold water in any legal context. It is my view that the 3 man FA panel have been influenced by the UK media and the FA into making an example out of Luis Suarez. The player’s defence was dismissed as not being a mitigating factor; despite being in English football for less than 12 months and only having a basic understanding of the nuances of the language. Luis Suarez is from South America; where descriptive words that are viewed negatively in the UK are used every day without prejudice. We have proven this beyond reasonable doubt; and there is a mass of evidence to support this, a short piece of research can give you numerous examples of South American players and teams using language and phrases that have a different meaning in different cultures. It is accepted by both Suarez and Evra that Evra started the argument by saying to Suarez 'conchua tu hermana' or your sisters pussy in english. Evra also called Suarez a 'staco' which is a derogative term for south americans, no less racist than p**i or ch**k in English, however the FA decided to overlook this. The only options for Liverpool FC and Luis Suarez in my opinion are as follows: release a statement condemning the FA's report and appeal it, if they appeal is succesful Luis Suarez should sue; Patrice Evra, The FA and They Daily Mirror (see below) for defamation of character
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    The FA can easily be sued and defeated in this case......they mention that Evra's statement was reliable because it was consistent.....lets put it this way, if I wanted to get someone into trouble be it at work or with the Police, I can make my story as water tight as possible by making sure that I stick to the same story throughout. Since there is no rule to say I can not write down my own "statement" and recite it later, I would be at an advantage because I would know exactly what to say and when to say it to get the other person into deep trouble. If I was Suarez I would ask to have this case tried in court because the FA, although an Organisation can and have no right to take matters into their own hands in this fashion. The maximum fine for racially aggravated public offence(what Terry is being charged with) is £2500!!!!. The FA are fining Suarez £40 000. Secondly if rival fans racially abuse an opossing team's player throughout the 90 minutes the team gets fined and nothing happens to the supporters as it is impossible to prosecute all of them.

    They also go on to say the reason why they handed the 8 match suspension was that he used the word "negro" about 7 times!!!. I am a negro myself(black) and I dont find the word "negro" offensive at all. In any case that seems to suggest, (from the FA's twisted point of view), that if you say it 7 times its worse than saying it once!!!!!.

    As for tarnishing the England's image through racism...oh please give me a break!!!. Everyone knows that England were the front runners in the days of Slavery when African people were "owned" by the English, Portuguese, French etc. England got rich by exploiting black people because of their colour. They FA have John Terry as their Captain but claim that Suarez has tarnished their image!!!!!!!!!.
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