OK! is it a taboo to blame kenny or dare say a bad word about him

[CKReds1892]

You'll struggle to find a single person that doesn't agree with you, so you're point is mute and completely irrelevant.

The point is that there is a difference between fantasy and reality.

Fantasy is people believing that Kenny could have turned the **** state that this club was in, in one season.

Fantasy is people believing that sacking managers every year works.

Reality is that sacking managers every year doesn't work.

The reality is that it will take several years before we can challenge for the title.

The reality is that we need patience as fans and supporters - and the reality is that too many of us don't have that most elusive of attributes.

I would love to know what the stats were, how teams have sacked the managers and then improved.....Chelsea sacked the manager last season and haven't improved...gone backwards

[LifeRedLife]

This is a long read and I hope you can stay with me throughout , it's by no means a blast at kenny at all , though there are points aimed towards him yes. But it's not my any means a dig at him or him alone .*

It's been an emotional day for us all, so I'm sorry I've if witteld on and on or come across as having a massive **** attack and a moan .*

Kenny again got it horribly wrong today from the get go . The moment I seen the team sheet all my hopes vanished .*
I asked straight away in the match day thread about this and was quickly shot down about questioning it ,*

I'm not saying my knowledge is better than Kennys either they won't even come close or I hope they wouldn't, the guy was an absolute class act on the pitch and I built my playing career around his style been the link man between attack and midfield , , but as each game comes and goes he doesn't seem to be able to evolve and adapt to the opponents at hand, each game we line up with our usual plan A of playing 451 , and then if things go wrong we seem unable to change this, you can blame the players as much as you want , and I agree they do need 60% of the blame , but the manager also has to take the blame also .*

I don't believe that any other manager who's team was at home facing a bottom 3 side would of played with a 451 formation other than arsenal, but arsenal have a ball playing midfield with players whom can control the game and create chance by utilising quick technical players in midfield , then they have an inform striker who given a chance will 9 times out of 10 score .arsenal get away with this formation as there 2 wide men in the 5 are speedy attackers and push on to create a 433 when in attack, and can hit on the counter ,*

We don't have this , we don't have a solid centre fielding of players whom are comfortable on the ball , quick at passing and moving , make there own space and are advanced with there passing ability , our wide men aren't pacey wide men either apart from downing whom can push on to advance to this 433 when on the attack, dirk Kuyt wether you love him or not, can not offer this and it's not his natural position , he lacks in technical ability on the ball, and has no speed to utilise the space on the flanks while going forward .*

Suarez is not a loan front man who can lead the line, he likes to drop deep and receive the ball, you'd get the best from him playing someone further forward than him, and alow him to drop down for the ball and create space to feed in behinde the defence for an advancing striker . *Either Carroll or dirk Kuyt . Suarez should never be the loan striker unless we have two wide men who can push on to form a 433 when on the attack - downing,Bellamy,maxi,sterling .*

We looked better for the ten minutes after half time when Carroll came on, and we dropped to a 442 formation, and this with the squad we have available is how we should be playing every game . Carroll needs wingers , whom can reach the by line and deliver a cross , in our squad these are downing and sterling , or Bellamy and maxi to a lesser extent . *Not Jordan Henderson or dirk Kuyt . *Obviously we would benift more with a 442 if Lucas was not injured , and pairing him in the centre with gerrard should be our number 1 option on the team sheet, But this is unavailable to us at present . *And this is where I think Kennys weakness may line. I don't think he envisioned Lucas been out with a major injury , and I think because we carnt play our original game plan A he's at abit of a loss as what to do , I also believe kenny been so good on the pitch himself kind of expects or hopes lesser players can step up and play in different roles that they may not be suited to , he himself could of played anywhere so can gerrard , but sometimes this is not the case and players just don't have it in there mind set up to be able to evolve to a different role or position *. And that's no fault of his own .*

But he has to start to relise, and I think he is , that we can no longer continue to play the formation we want with the players we have available, and that we may have to re arrange *our formation around the ability of the players we have . even if it means leaving players out and bringing in lesser players that suit the role more, it will benefit us in the end, rather than to keep hoping our players will adapt to new roles .*

If we are to use 451/433 next game then we need to go with 2 real wide men who can opporate the flanks *correctly and push on , whom have pace . And an ability to beat the fullback on a counter attack . Even if this means playing some of our youth teams members who are more suited to this role . that means dropping dirk Kuyt to the bench . And not using and centre midfielder out wide like Henderson .*
But I don't think our squad has the right players at present to use this formation .*

442 is our best option for me , * *We have dirk,Bellamy,Suarez and Carroll who can opporate in the front 2 pairing ,*

Gerrard,spearing,Henderson and shelvey for the middle , and downing,maxi,Kuyt or Bellamy for the outside midfielders . Playing a 442 you don't need the pace on the wings to get the best out of the formation. You have two players uptop so there's no need for the pace to advance as quickly to help support our attack . Your main attacker wether it be Carroll or Kuyt can hold the ball up, Suarez drop deep for the ball, then your wide midfielders to join the attack from there, wether it be Bellamy, maxi or downing .*
Obviously we need a deep centre player which would be either spearing or shelvey , then a more central or attacking option in gerrard or Henderson, *
Obviously you wouldn't play the 442 if your only options would be to have say spearing or shelvey with Henderson in the centre , this is when you'd go with the 3 man midfield , but it would be very rare that we are left with the only option of spearing shelvey or Henderson .*

Now you look at the team your playing, are the top half or bottom half of the league? Are we at home or are we away ? Are the other team in form or not. * *You capitalise on poor teams by playing 442 , and having two front men work there defence, while your midfield controls the game and builds from there , **
If against a good side in form, you opt for 451 , and use the counter attack to your advantage with switching to 433 when we push on, then drop back to a solid 451 again when we lose possession *.*

The game is very simple , even though it has changed a lot in the past decade .*

But while we opt with playing players out of there natural positions, and use the wrong formations for matches we will struggle to create the openings we desire ,*

There is no point in playing a 451 without 2 pacey wide men, at home to a poor team who will sit behinde the ball all game .*
You'll find to many men hunched in the middle , not much space been made to utilise the formation with , and when we do happen to exploit and open up space our wide men don't have the ability to do anything with it, other than collect the ball and then pass it backwards losing the opportunity .*

Kenny had the right idea at half time, he really did , but then shot himself in the foot with replacing downing with shelvey ,*
Kuyt should have come off instead of downing and either sterling on or fabio Aurelio . That would have left us with a nice 442 , downing could have carried on playing right and sterling or Aurelio playing left . Or even if downing had come off it should have been for either sterling or Aurelio . *And moved Kuyt back over to the right and had either Aurelio or sterling doing left side . *I'm happy with Kuyt at right along as its a 442 formation not a 451/433 .*

Now why carra started over Coates is way way beyond me .. *If any of you guys would like to go back over last games and past season, I think it will become obvious that Skrtle doesn't cope well with been pushed over to the left hand side of a defensive pairing, and we concede a lot of goals with him playing there . Now I'm not blaming Skrtle on this factor at all, I'm blaming whom comes in at the right , doesn't play aswell as Skrtle does there . It's like this Skrtle gets say an 8 or 9 rating playing right side , he gets a 5/6/7 playing left . Carra/Coates/Greek/anyone else we've played along side gets about a 5/6/7/8 I'd rather Skrtle be the dominate defender . And the other guy plays left side and plays a steady 5/6/7 again . It seems to knock skrtles confidence playing left side for some reason, and on his left foot he is abismal , I'd rather have him playing top notch and then an average guy next to him, than them both playing average games .*
That's just my two cents on what I've noticed evey time Skrtle gets pushed over to the left .*

My worries with Enrique are becoming more apparent as we get into the end of the season, yes he is solid . And a good buy indeed, but I'm now worried he his playing more for him self and trying to win the left back spot for Spain, rather than playing for Liverpool and our team .*
He's now opting to try everything on his own, and hardly often passes to whom ever played infront of him on the left, especially downing .*
The amount of times I've seen downing over lap him and crying out for Enrique to push the ball on, he opts to cut inside and go alone and crosses from far out rather than hitting the byline then delivering our cross . Watch his games and watch him closely it's starting to become worse and worse , anyone else noticed this ?

Seriously, beside the spelling and grammer, GREAT READ!

[LifeRedLife]

I would love to know what the stats were, how teams have sacked the managers and then improved.....Chelsea sacked the manager last season and haven't improved...gone backwards

Seriously? Ask yourself, would you rather still be in th CHAMPIONS LEAGUE Semi-Final and still there fighting for a top 4-finished or be in our position?

[Michaeloven]

Just saw on facebook that there are rumours kenny is sacked.Sad if true because he deserved at least until the end of this season.

[elphenomeno]

We cannot sack managers every year - WE SIMPLY CAN NOT DO THAT!
Any new manager must have TIME! Kenny was never going to turn us around in one season!

I 100% wholeheartedly agreed to your statements here. But try telling that to John Henry, then tell him to write off Carroll, Adam, Henderson and Downing's transfer fees at the end of this season and then go on to ask him for another 80m pounds (combined fees we paid for these duds) to buy more players to replace them. What will John Henry's reaction be?

John Henry has the following options:

1) Fire the current manager and get a new one with proven records, but the new manager has to wheel and deal with the current squad in order to buy new players.

2) Fire the current manager and get a new one with proven records, write off whatever lost on players like Carroll, Adam, Henderson and Downing sold, and then back the new manager with another 100m pounds warchest.

3) Continue to use Dalglish but not going to give him anymore money to buy reinforcement and tell he has up to next summer to save his job.

4) Continue to use Dalglish and write off whatever lost on players like Carroll, Adam, Henderson and Downing sold, and then back Dalglish with another 100m pounds warchest.


If you are John Henry, what will be your decision?

The option should logically be number 1, we're now entering the start of Fair Play Rules and we cannot afford two seasons of spending £100 million just to go into debt.
However, to not give Kenny Dalglish £100 million war chest is basically condemning him to failure and that means you need to find a manager and director of football who can find the best undiscovered talent.
Looking at what our team urgently needs in our first team, the answer is a creative midfielder, a right winger and a centre forward.
Rafael Benitez found gems like Alonso, Garcia and Torres. Damien Comolli found gems like Modric, Boateng and Berbatov.
Of course they both bought players who haven't made it at Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham but who here wouldn't accept failures like El Zhar or Taarabt for players like Alonso and Modric to come and be so successful.

[Bhidza]

People keep bringing up this 100 million figure, but that's not our net spend. We also lost Torres, Babel, Meireles etc

Suarez - 23 Million
Carroll - 35 Million (lolz)
Enrique - 6 million
Charlie Adam - 6 million
Henderson - 16 million (lolz)
Downing - 20 million
Bellamy - 5 million

Gross Expenditure - 111 million


Torres - 50 million
Babel - 6 million
Meireles - 10 million
N'Gog - 4 million
TOTAL - 70 million

So net spend is 41 million See that's not too bad is it? We're doing pretty decently I might add. 8 points in the last 10 games! almost double digits. Woohoo.

Someone really needs to explain the significance of this "net spending" nonsense that keeps getting thrown out. At the end of the day, KK had 100+ million at his disposal and look what he spent it on! Are you trying to say that if it had been his own money or straight out of FSGs pocket he would have spent it more wisely? FSG is running a business, they are not scousers, they have no room for sentiment, no matter how highly regarded KK is around liverpool. They have seen what he can do with 100 million and rightfully so will not be rushing to open the checkbook on current results.

Its also frustrating how stubborn KK really is. He complains of "tiredness" yet Maxi hardly gets a shout, Aurellio has been on and off the bench for the past month, SHelvey was recalled from loan and can barely get a game in...yet time and again Henderson is the first name on the teamsheet despite continuous abysmal performances. He is digging his own grave but unfortunately, because of sentiment, nobody dare say a thing to criticize him. I thought NOBODY WAS BIGGER THAN LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB!

[L-E-S-S-T-H-A-N]

Someone really needs to explain the significance of this "net spending" nonsense that keeps getting thrown out. At the end of the day, KK had 100+ million at his disposal and look what he spent it on! Are you trying to say that if it had been his own money or straight out of FSGs pocket he would have spent it more wisely? FSG is running a business, they are not scousers, they have no room for sentiment, no matter how highly regarded KK is around liverpool. They have seen what he can do with 100 million and rightfully so will not be rushing to open the checkbook on current results.

Its also frustrating how stubborn KK really is. He complains of "tiredness" yet Maxi hardly gets a shout, Aurellio has been on and off the bench for the past month, SHelvey was recalled from loan and can barely get a game in...yet time and again Henderson is the first name on the teamsheet despite continuous abysmal performances. He is digging his own grave but unfortunately, because of sentiment, nobody dare say a thing to criticize him. I thought NOBODY WAS BIGGER THAN LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB!

Beautiful post.

[PePeReina]

Hodgson: 20 games, 25 point.. Sacked! Kenny: 20 games, 24 point.. He needs more time.. Surely Roy should have been given more time then?

[scoose08]

Hodgson: 20 games, 25 point.. Sacked! Kenny: 20 games, 24 point.. He needs more time.. Surely Roy should have been given more time then?

This.

[KryptonKop]

Roys football was dire most weeks, and his press conferences were a joke. He claimed Northampton Town were formidable, and bought Konchesky.

[AlessoAfrojackAvicii]

I'd like to see Kenny's loyal followers defend yesterday's result.

[PePeReina]

Roys football was dire most weeks, and his press conferences were a joke. He claimed Northampton Town were formidable, and bought Konchesky.

Only results matter

[Argyle]

Now, I am not one of those that calls for managers heads after a few poor results but I am also not stupid enough to let a Carling Cup win/ FA Cup Semi cloud what has been a disastrous effort as far as the league is concerned.

I don't think we have a divine right to be challenging for the title every season as, much as I hate to admit, we are not the force we once were. We are living in the past. At the start of every season the same words are said "this is going to be THE year!". Quite honestly no, it isn't. With this season in mind, all Liverpool fans had high hopes given the form we had shown towards the back end of last season. But my fears then had been realized now in that there was no pressure on the players then as there is now which makes me question, do the current players have the fight and bottle to mount a serious challenge for the title in the seasons to come. Maybe.

I have been reading several topics on this forum recently and there has been some serious criticism for "King" Kenny.

Net spend this, woodwork that. I heard it all. Now, the latest from Kenny is that the players are "tired". I'll try continually performing poorly at work, tell my boss that I have worked a few hours that week and that I'm tired. Yes sure, that will cut it.
I have also seen articles published focusing on stats trying to justify our league position/form. Games with/without Carroll, chance conversion, times hit woodwork etc. The only stats that matter are our league position as far as I'm concerned. Now that we will not finish fourth we will not be attracting the names being mooted in the transfer section. People come back with arguments like "players still want to come and play for Liverpool". Why? Oh that is correct, because we have a right to win competitions.

I know people will respond to this post telling me to "go and support another team that buys success" or "how dare you question the King". Others will respond saying "if this was Hodgson...." or "bring Rafa back!"

Quite honestly, I do not know what is the answer. But what I do know is that the likes of Henderson, Carroll, Adam et al will NOT make us a force to be reckoned with. To this we have gone from a midfield trio of Masch/Alonso/Gerrard to Spearing/Adam/Gerrard. Gerrard's favourite emoticon must be

One point that really grates on me is that "our NET spend has only been £40m". Yes only, try telling that to Newcastle/Spurs/Arsenal. All higher than us without spending that last summer.

That may be our NET spend figure but we still went out and spent £35m on Carroll! Please, who on earth sanctioned that buy!?? Put a decimal point in between those figures and I'd still question his worth to the team. I really feel sorry for Andy I really do. By us paying that much we have put far too much pressure on him and also the fact that he doesn't get the right balls played into. He will never fit the style of play that Kenny is trying to put in place so it questions the future planning of the likes of Commolli as to where he thought Carroll may fit in.

My final point is that, if pigs were to fly and we were to finish 4th, does Kenny possess the tactical know-how to make us progress in Europe? Could he cut it on the biggest stage of all in the Champions League? This is where I feel Kenny would com undone personally. I just do not feel that we would get past the group stages, perhaps not even the qualifiers.

As a romantic I hate seeing one of Liverpool's greatest ever players managing our team on the touchline when we put in performances like yesterday. I want him to succeed as I feel it would be great to see the King "lead us to the Golden Sky" as another poster put it. But with the current cloud settling in over Anfield, I fear this storm is not for passing so easily.

[hotlips222]

Roys football was dire most weeks, and his press conferences were a joke. He claimed Northampton Town were formidable, and bought Konchesky.

Yep, we were dire and he bought Konchesky for £4M. Kenny bought Carroll for £35M and we are dire. I think i know which one stands out the most!!!!

[PePeReina]

Yep, we were dire and he bought Konchesky for £4M. Kenny bought Carroll for £35M and we are dire. I think i know which one stands out the most!!!!

Our transfer policy has been disastrous. 20M for Downing, 20M for Henderson and 35M Carroll

[Afterthought]

Our transfer policy has been disastrous. 20M for Downing, 20M for Henderson and 35M Carroll

I thought Henderson was £78m... Or was it £86m? I forget.

It certainly wasn't £16m

[YNWALONE]

Roys football was dire most weeks, and his press conferences were a joke. He claimed Northampton Town were formidable, and bought Konchesky.

roy interviews were horrible but so are KK's he is only using his stupid excuses instead of taking the fault

[Phoenix18]

Good Morning Everyone.I am Louise from Cape Town in South Africa.This is my first time on this forum and I have read a lot of the threads and it breaks my heart to read how people on here,who call themselves,LFC supporters can be so cruel!We here is SA,I mean my family and myself,would give anything for a chance to come just to one game at Anfield,yet you can so easily disregard the team who you religiously support if they don't do well.I LOVE this club and so does my husband and kids.Liverpool runs through our veins.So if you do not have anything positive to say,rather say nothing.That is just my opinion.I hope that it is excepted.KING KENNY all the way!!!!!YNWA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[YNWALONE]

Good Morning Everyone.I am Louise from Cape Town in South Africa.This is my first time on this forum and I have read a lot of the threads and it breaks my heart to read how people on here,who call themselves,LFC supporters can be so cruel!We here is SA,I mean my family and myself,would give anything for a chance to come just to one game at Anfield,yet you can so easily disregard the team who you religiously support if they don't do well.I LOVE this club and so does my husband and kids.Liverpool runs through our veins.So if you do not have anything positive to say,rather say nothing.That is just my opinion.I hope that it is excepted.KING KENNY all the way!!!!!YNWA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what?

[PePeReina]

roy interviews were horrible but so are KK's he is only using his stupid excuses instead of taking the fault

Tiredness and luck . Damn it

[winnerrr]

Why doesn't Kenny take the resposibility, but everytime blame the luck, the woodwork, tired players ? The major responsibility either for winning and losing

is his. Sometimes it happens te be the luck, the woodwork, etc....., but when it is the case in almost every game, then maybe the problem is somewhere

else. He is the manager (the boss), it's his responsibility in first place !

[CKReds1892]

I guess having Liverpool doing so badly this month, has taken the focus off Harry Redknapp, he has done worse that Kenny in March

[AlessoAfrojackAvicii]

I guess having Liverpool doing so badly this month, has taken the focus off Harry Redknapp, he has done worse that Kenny in March

Spurs are the media's favourite team this season. Redknapp is the favourite manager, Bale is the favourite player.

[CKReds1892]

Spurs are the media's favourite team this season. Redknapp is the favourite manager, Bale is the favourite player.

one win in 7 for spurs and that was against Stevenage

[AlessoAfrojackAvicii]

one win in 7 for spurs and that was against Stevenage

'Arry will ******* off at the end of the season for the Euro's anyway, don't think he's even that bothered about Spurs anymore.

[winnerrr]

'Arry will ******* off at the end of the season for the Euro's anyway, don't think he's even that bothered about Spurs anymore.

And they are still in the top 4, we are 8 points away from 6th and just 2 above 8th and 9th. terrible season so far

[McMahonBarnes]

Someone really needs to explain the significance of this "net spending" nonsense that keeps getting thrown out. At the end of the day, KK had 100+ million at his disposal and look what he spent it on! Are you trying to say that if it had been his own money or straight out of FSGs pocket he would have spent it more wisely? FSG is running a business, they are not scousers, they have no room for sentiment, no matter how highly regarded KK is around liverpool. They have seen what he can do with 100 million and rightfully so will not be rushing to open the checkbook on current results.

Its also frustrating how stubborn KK really is. He complains of "tiredness" yet Maxi hardly gets a shout, Aurellio has been on and off the bench for the past month, SHelvey was recalled from loan and can barely get a game in...yet time and again Henderson is the first name on the teamsheet despite continuous abysmal performances. He is digging his own grave but unfortunately, because of sentiment, nobody dare say a thing to criticize him. I thought NOBODY WAS BIGGER THAN LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB!

The reality is, Liverpool are 2 maybe 3 players away from being a very good football team. If we add a genuine striker, and 2 very creative attacking midfielders, the teams shape would be completely different. The defence has proven itself this season boasting one of the best in the league. We have seen the difference Gerrard makes when he is in the side. 3 more of his quality will change everything.

Where the relevance of the net spend comes in to play, is that is the real figure that FSG have invested into the playing roster. People rant about the 100m that has been wasted. They rant that FSG will not give Kenny another 100m to spend. The reality is, they haven’t. The sale of existing players funded the signings of our current players. Therefore, suggesting FSG gave Kenny 100mil is a lie.

Any manger will have a trial and error period. The problem with our season this year is we have not been able to score enough goals. I know that is stating the obvious, but the reality is, we have dominated many games in all areas of the park. We’ve won more corners, most possession etc etc. If FSG invested time into watching those games they too would have seen the games where one or two class players would have made all the difference. Kenny needs to see the project out. Him leaving would only create more instability and bring us back to square one….again.

When a manager leaves a football club, it’s not just him that may leave. The new manger will bring new back room staff. Give Kenny the 2 more seasons they promised.

[McMahonBarnes]

roy interviews were horrible but so are KK's he is only using his stupid excuses instead of taking the fault

Because we've heard many a manger during an interview say "yep, you're right - I ********** the tatics today and my players are crap"

[CKReds1892]

By any chance did you see Roys interview yesterday after the newcastle match

[SouthernRob]

Someone really needs to explain the significance of this "net spending" nonsense that keeps getting thrown out. At the end of the day, KK had 100+ million at his disposal

I'm puzzled as to why people cannot see the significance of Net spend v spend

KK had 100 million to spend and people are expecting us to be 100 million of talent better off! We hear comments such as "We have similar points to Everton who didn't spend 100 million" We are not going to be better off to the tune of 100 million can you not see that? It's the Net spend that is EVERYTHING!

Let's use Barcelona as an example. At the end of the season it looks like they may finish a few points behind Madrid.

So they sell Messi, Xavi, Pedro and Iniesta for 400 million and buy Hazard, Forlan, Sneijder and Nani for 100 million. Would you then say "Barcelona have spent 100 million and they're still not above Madrid!!!"

Of course not - Net spend is all that matters