Playing good football vs getting good results.

[AaronSuarez7]

After reading through many a differing opinion on here, specifically debates about Kenny's against Roy's whilst he was with us, a few times now I've seen the same argument; that with Roy as manager the results may have been the same but it's what our play deserved, whereas with Kenny our performances on a whole have warranted much better than what we've actually achieved.

Now, this whilst this is not a dig at Kenny, I personally don't think that simply playing good football and being "unlucky" in games is enough for our football club, for example Wigan are a team that pride themselves on the way they play football, but are a team that inevitably will always be struggling down the bottom end of the league, whereas in my opinion, Utd have often played "ugly" football this season (And last) yet continually challenge for the league.

I suppose what I'm asking is, whether our good football is something we can build upon next season with better players and having a squad that has finally knitted and know each other well. Or whether you think we should adopt a different approach to the game? There has been alot of calls for more direct football, especially in the final third, but then I can't help but feeling if we did that then we wouldn't dominate games as we do.

Again this isn't a thread in which I want to see debates about whether the manager is good enough, I simply want to know, whether tactically we need a change in direction, whether we should sacrifice the way we play football in order to attain better results in games...thoughts?

[Michaeloven]

You can't really fault the football we play...it is good but not effective.Which is why kenny must buy players of silva,mata,nani calibre.If he doesn't do that and continues with the buy british nonsense,be prepared for another season in midtable.

[L-E-S-S-T-H-A-N]

You have to play good football to get results.

[maradona4liverpool]

Results are what matters and it shouldn't matter how we get them, we will play good and lose and bad and win, the problem is we are losing too many playing good and bad..

As for luck, you make your own good or bad. After all we won cc on it..

[TheDarknessIsCalling]

Results are what matters and it shouldn't matter how we get them,

With certain conditions like we don't just hoof the ball up to Carroll, or sign a decrap to throw the ball in, etc

We don't play "good football" we play pretty football, what we should be playing is effective football which you can do without sacrificing a passing game it's just you don't retain possession for its own sake but so players can find space and effective passes can be made. We seem WAY too wrapped up in crossing, yet that isn't our strength and we put them in with little end result. If I was playing against us I wouldn't care if I conceded 20 corners because I'd expect Liverpool to make most of one maximum. When we get good interplay going then we're effective, little 1-2s, through balls (with more offside awareness), square pull backs which aren't from the byline as they make for difficult angles and contact, and when we do cross aerially then we put enough pace on them that they aren't leaving the target with a lot of work to do to get direction and power

So the "we play good football" argument is hollow because people get pretty passing confused with effective/good football

[SouthernRob]

Results are what matters and it shouldn't matter how we get them, we will play good and lose and bad and win, the problem is we are losing too many playing good and bad..

As for luck, you make your own good or bad. After all we won cc on it..

Did we? Johnson hit the bar first 3 minutes. They scored on virtually their first attack. We had more possession, 39 shots on goal. 19 on target. 19 corners. Cardiff had 3 corners in total scoring from one of them a minute before the final whistle. They grafted but we were the better team. Then we scored more penalties than them - what was lucky???

Or are you talking about the entire compettitom where we were never drawn at home and had to play the world's most expensive team in the Semis?

[TheDarknessIsCalling]

We had more possession, 39 shots on goal. 19 on target. 19 corners. Cardiff had 3 corners in total scoring from one of them a minute before the final whistle. They grafted but we were the better team. Then we scored more penalties than them - what was lucky???

We pinged in lots of potshots that were naff, we did nothing with our shots or corners. And where did the "19 on target" come from?!?!?! I guess that must include the five penalties, we certainly didn't have 19 quality shots on target

Or are you talking about the entire compettitom where we were never drawn at home and had to play the world's most expensive team in the Semis?

The 2st leg citeh were sheet, I'd say that is lucky. If not then the 2nd leg was a fairer reflection of the two sides and we weren't convincing in scraping through to the final despite citeh being poor for the majority of the 1st leg. And weren't they missing key CBs? Not to mention the ACN which took away their Toure-sts, although I have argued before a long time ago that you sign African internationals then you know when the ACN is......... Played any other time but January I reckon we'd have been beaten comfortably at their's and maybe got a result at our's.

[RossMosh]

The football played under Kenny is simply better than what we played under Roy. It's not even comparable. Under Roy we were awful. Under Kenny we've been a bit of a mixed bag but it's definitely a vast improvement.

The thing is, Kenny really isn't a system man. He'll change around the formation a bunch but he mostly is about putting players on the pitch and letting them have the freedom to do what is necessary to win. When you don't have very good players, this becomes an issue. For me, our problem is down to player quality, and not much else.

[SouthernRob]

We pinged in lots of potshots that were naff, we did nothing with our shots or corners. And where did the "19 on target" come from?!?!?! I guess that must include the five penalties, we certainly didn't have 19 quality shots on target


The 2st leg citeh were sheet, I'd say that is lucky. If not then the 2nd leg was a fairer reflection of the two sides and we weren't convincing in scraping through to the final despite citeh being poor for the majority of the 1st leg. And weren't they missing key CBs? Not to mention the ACN which took away their Toure-sts, although I have argued before a long time ago that you sign African internationals then you know when the ACN is......... Played any other time but January I reckon we'd have been beaten comfortably at their's and maybe got a result at our's.

Are you kidding? We were lucky in the match because what? Our 19 shots on target weren't 'quality'? Because we didn't make the most of our corners? I don't get it - your whole argument is that you don't buy us being unlucky this season, but you use a match where we were the better team and had clearer chances to substantiate your claim? Bizarre! I still don't know why you think we were lucky and Cardiff were unlucky - explain please

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17093419

[Archieuk]

i think we have played some really good looking football this season, but been unlucky.
some games have been awful, but no one bar Barca can play attractive football all the time.
but i'd take ugly 1-0 wins for the rest of the season now though, just to get the points on the table.
hopefully next season we will play blinding football, AND get the results our play has deserved.

[TheDarknessIsCalling]

Are you kidding? We were lucky in the match because what? Our 19 shots on target weren't 'quality'? Because we didn't make the most of our corners? I don't get it - your whole argument is that you don't buy us being unlucky this season, but you use a match where we were the better team and had clearer chances to substantiate your claim? Bizarre! I still don't know why you think we were lucky and Cardiff were unlucky - explain please

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17093419

I was actually pointing out how stats mean diddly, so we had more possession and shots, we did against QPR. It doesn't mean anything. Of course we were the "better team", Cardiff are and have been for a long time a CHAMPIONSHIP CLUB so you expect all those stats.

As for your "substantiate" demand, I didn't say we were lucky so you're just reading between lines when there's only one. "substantiate" your claim I've said we were lucky against Cardiff, because I didn't say it If I was the person you originally replied to then that would be a fair assumption, I have enough on my mind at the moment and can't be ar sed to try and remember the minutae of that game. I did point out the flaw in your "expensive team" argument, we were lucky.

[Jesal]

It's more dynamic football than attractive.

It is attacking though (generally). It just needs the right players, the likes of whom we clearly don't possess right now.

[liv4EveR5]

I don't see us playing this great attacking football, we look decent at times but a lot of the times we void of any ideas and lack creativity. Most of the time we crossing balls into the box which end up being useless.

[SinglishRed]

I don't see us playing this great attacking football, we look decent at times but a lot of the times we void of any ideas and lack creativity. Most of the time we crossing balls into the box which end up being useless.

We lack movement off the ball with this lot. Something we had plenty with Suarez, Maxi, Meireles and Kuyt last season. Hard for players like Downing or Adam to provide assist they were bought in for, if no one intelligent or industrious enough to run into space score from them.

[liv4EveR5]

We lack movement off the ball with this lot. Something we had plenty with Suarez, Maxi, Meireles and Kuyt last season. Hard for players like Downing or Adam to provide assist they were bought in for, if no one intelligent or industrious enough to run into space score from them.

Yep, I have said all along, its 1 thing Kenny making a complete hash of his signings, its another persisting when clearly its not working and they simply not good enough.

[Afterthought]

With certain conditions like we don't just hoof the ball up to Carroll, or sign a decrap to throw the ball in, etc

We don't play "good football" we play pretty football, what we should be playing is effective football which you can do without sacrificing a passing game it's just you don't retain possession for its own sake but so players can find space and effective passes can be made. We seem WAY too wrapped up in crossing, yet that isn't our strength and we put them in with little end result. If I was playing against us I wouldn't care if I conceded 20 corners because I'd expect Liverpool to make most of one maximum. When we get good interplay going then we're effective, little 1-2s, through balls (with more offside awareness), square pull backs which aren't from the byline as they make for difficult angles and contact, and when we do cross aerially then we put enough pace on them that they aren't leaving the target with a lot of work to do to get direction and power

So the "we play good football" argument is hollow because people get pretty passing confused with effective/good football

Pretty much sums it up.

[maradona4liverpool]

Did we? Johnson hit the bar first 3 minutes. They scored on virtually their first attack. We had more possession, 39 shots on goal. 19 on target. 19 corners. Cardiff had 3 corners in total scoring from one of them a minute before the final whistle. They grafted but we were the better team. Then we scored more penalties than them - what was lucky???

Or are you talking about the entire compettitom where we were never drawn at home and had to play the world's most expensive team in the Semis?

we won the game on pens, pens are a lottery...

so are you saying that we were unlucky that as a prem team against a championship side that we couldnt score more than 2 from 39 shots or cardiff were lucky that they scored 2 from far fewer with less possession?

were we unlucky that we couldnt do much from 19 corners or were cardiff lucky that they scored 1 in 3?



throw stats at me all day about how we dominated the game but that only makes things worse as the team with little stats took us all the way

[MachineGoal]

You need to be playing good football in order to obtain good results consistantly. Result oriented football is a short term fix and never usually bring you success consistantly. However all this is academic if you don't have the players.

[gingeZizou82]

They need a good attitude first. The football will follow.