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Thread: Wait Stop And Think

  1. #121  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnfieldSouth41 View Post
    Yes he's old and Giggs is too but they still ran all over our midfield in the game we played recently. Those 2 are the key United will win the league this year. They dominate most games they play and you need a good midfield for that. Carrick, Scholes, Giggs have been immense this year.

    But people think its a poor midfield because they dont have fancy names like Modric and Silva, when in fact they'll run all over anyone in the league.
    And then they got over run by everyone and anyone in Europe.

    The fact is, United's system works in England very well because of the way they defend and counter attack. United challenge anyone and everyone to beat them with technique. Since most teams in England are more focused on running fast and tackling hard, the players forget or never learn how to play a highly technical game. As a result, United win a lot of defensive battles, leave their wingers and strikers high up the pitch, and counter attack you to death.

    If they are forced into playing a game when they are stuck work with 10 men behind the ball, they push everyone forward as much as they can and they attack you with their wingers and strikers. They want you to earn their respect. They test the defenders all game long. Not only do they test them and attack them, but they attack them in different ways. If you compare Downing to Valencia you'll see Downing will run straight down the wing and then cross it in. Valencia runs AT the defender, beats them, and crosses it in. The difference is night and day on how it creates defensive movement. The wingers are such a key part of United's success in the league it's ridiculous. Why this works not as well in Europe is very simple. Most of these players are used to technical players. It doesn't bother them one bit that someone is trying to do a few tricks. That's what they see every week. Even against the worst sides they are trying to beat them with technique. So when Nani tries to do a few tricks, the defenders simply don't care.

    The midfield play a very simple role in this system. Support the attack. Support the defense. Don't make big mistakes. If it's time to defend, the central midfield better defend. If it's time to attack, they better run as hard as they can and support the attack. Their level of involvement in picking the key pass or stretching the defense is limited. This isn't to say they don't have to be quality passers, but it is to say they have very little responsibility in scoring goals, creating goals, or really doing a whole lot of tackling. Carrick is their defensive midfielder and he can't tackle. Period.

    You can't be horrible to play in United's midfield, but you really don't have to be all that special. You just have to be a hard working, well rounded player, who can pass the ball pretty well. Central defenders, strikers, and wingers are the most important players on the pitch for United.
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  2. #122  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossMosh View Post
    And then they got over run by everyone and anyone in Europe.

    The fact is, United's system works in England very well because of the way they defend and counter attack. United challenge anyone and everyone to beat them with technique. Since most teams in England are more focused on running fast and tackling hard, the players forget or never learn how to play a highly technical game. As a result, United win a lot of defensive battles, leave their wingers and strikers high up the pitch, and counter attack you to death.

    If they are forced into playing a game when they are stuck work with 10 men behind the ball, they push everyone forward as much as they can and they attack you with their wingers and strikers. They want you to earn their respect. They test the defenders all game long. Not only do they test them and attack them, but they attack them in different ways. If you compare Downing to Valencia you'll see Downing will run straight down the wing and then cross it in. Valencia runs AT the defender, beats them, and crosses it in. The difference is night and day on how it creates defensive movement. The wingers are such a key part of United's success in the league it's ridiculous. Why this works not as well in Europe is very simple. Most of these players are used to technical players. It doesn't bother them one bit that someone is trying to do a few tricks. That's what they see every week. Even against the worst sides they are trying to beat them with technique. So when Nani tries to do a few tricks, the defenders simply don't care.

    The midfield play a very simple role in this system. Support the attack. Support the defense. Don't make big mistakes. If it's time to defend, the central midfield better defend. If it's time to attack, they better run as hard as they can and support the attack. Their level of involvement in picking the key pass or stretching the defense is limited. This isn't to say they don't have to be quality passers, but it is to say they have very little responsibility in scoring goals, creating goals, or really doing a whole lot of tackling. Carrick is their defensive midfielder and he can't tackle. Period.

    You can't be horrible to play in United's midfield, but you really don't have to be all that special. You just have to be a hard working, well rounded player, who can pass the ball pretty well. Central defenders, strikers, and wingers are the most important players on the pitch for United.

    I wouldnt say their midfield doesnt work in Europe though.

    3 Champions League finals in 4 years. No other team has done that in recent years.
    Last edited by AnfieldSouth41; 25-3-12 at 02:06.
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  3. #123  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnfieldSouth41 View Post
    I dont think you are top of the league with having a terrible midfield.
    Everyone is quick to dismiss utd midfield yet they win championships and sit top of the lkog and we sit here defending our manager selling RM and AA and buying 2nd rate premier league players
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  4. #124  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archieuk View Post
    but look at it:
    Kelly
    Flanno
    Robinson
    Spearing
    Shelvey
    Henderson
    Carroll
    All young players with huge potential.
    So can we stick 'em in the reserves for a couple of years and get some players who can play premier league standard now?
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  5. #125  
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    The only blind people on here are the ones who still think that Kenny will turn this around.

    Can someone explain how as I don't think he'll get as much financial support as previously?

    All the players Kenny has bought don't have the right mentally or natural flair apart from Suarez.

    People need to get real we are going to finish close to 40 points behind the champions and therefore closer to relegation than the top!
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  6. #126  
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    Regardless of those defending Kenny the results speak volumes and we're having one of the worst league seasons in the Premiership which is going some considering it has seen a lot of lows.

    - We're only six points better off than in 92/93 under Souness who we stuck with........................... look how that worked out. He won a cup.
    - We're in danger of equalling our worst Premiership finish of 8th in 92/93, it isn't likely but the way we've played anything is possible.
    - If Hodgson had managed for 30 games at the rate he picked up points he'd have been on 37-38 points which is only 4-5 less than we have in 11/12.

    As much as some would like to shout "we won a cup, we won a cup, we won a cup................" in every response and end with "YNWA " as if that proves anything, we won't win cups every season and even if we did we couldn't let league form meander as it is for long.

    For the price we paid for the likes of Henderson, Downing and Coates I would expect either an older and better player, or to have a better player full-stop. Here's a few comparisons of spending :

    Alonso £10.5m vs Henderson £16m
    Benayoun £5m vs Downing £20m
    Meireles £11.5m vs Adam £8m
    Torres £21m vs Carroll £35m

    It's not an exercise in pick out best comparable to make the signings look bad, it is showing what you can get if you shop around and don't obsess with British. The whole homegroan players thing has gone quiet thank far k, but no doubt will rumble again. Arsenal had little problem making a squad of 25, the unlimited kiddies part makes it very hard not to be able to comply. The only real danger wasn't from eligibility but having too many players which I think applied to citeh at one point. But we always had enough anyway with the likes of Kelly, Spearing etc around not to mention Johnson, Gerrard and Carragher making up 37.5% of the quota.
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  7. #127  
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    A good manager does the best he can with what he have. A good manager gets the best out of his players.

    Safe to say. Kenny is a bad manager.
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  8. #128  
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSniperwolfy96 View Post
    Why are some people calling for the likes of Carroll and Hendo to get dropped and sold and so on. Even Adam.

    Do you not remember a certain Lucas Leiva?? He was by far one of the worst players we had at the club when we signed him but Benitez stood by him and look, he is a major influence on our team. And lets face it Hendo is better than Lucas was. Lucas was giving away frees and getting silly yellows. Kenny is now sticking to his buys and only becasue of the price tag people are giving him and the players a hell of a time?

    Come on, how long did it take Lucas to get good? OK we are 7th in the league and its not ideal but if it means blooding in players which include the england u21 captain and a player who has scored for England then OK. Downing has gotten good, so that is another example. Get behind our ******* players and team .

    YNWA Kenny, Henderson, Carroll
    we hada peak gerrard, mascherano and alonso to guide lucas and offset his frailties at the time.
    and we wernt out of the champions league for 3 year in a row..
    we need the european football now! not in 5 years when they finally decide to FIGHT for the shirt. its the lack of fight from carroll and etc that worries me the most.
    at least lucas showed real strenght in character and a desire that iv hardly seen from any of them new buys.
    shows why english national team is so weak now to be honest.

    i really hope they do prove me wrong but cant see them improving much soon.
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  9. #129  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalkandsRbritish View Post
    we hada peak gerrard, mascherano and alonso to guide lucas and offset his frailties at the time.
    and we wernt out of the champions league for 3 year in a row..
    we need the european football now! not in 5 years when they finally decide to FIGHT for the shirt. its the lack of fight from carroll and etc that worries me the most.
    at least lucas showed real strenght in character and a desire that iv hardly seen from any of them new buys.
    shows why english national team is so weak now to be honest.

    i really hope they do prove me wrong but cant see them improving much soon.
    We are back in Europe mate. Yes there are no desire from them (Adam, Andy, Hendo)
    But Kenny wasn't to know that when we signed them.
    Hope we get better because the quality is there
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  10. #130  
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    Wait Stop And Think...People can't think on here, your having a laugh, if you want that to happen
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKReds1892 View Post
    Wait Stop And Think...People can't think on here, your having a laugh, if you want that to happen
    walk run and shout
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  12. #132  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKReds1892 View Post
    Wait Stop And Think...People can't think on here, your having a laugh, if you want that to happen
    Yes I'm having a massive laugh
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    The few times I've seen Henderson play in CM for club and Eng U21 he looked good so he still has my backing.

    Carroll however is lazy, slow, lazy, weak, seemingly can't control a ball, lazy, doubt he can dribble properly, lazy and seems arrogant.

    As for Adam, he simply isn't anywhere close to being good enough. Much rather a Jonjo on the bench than him
    Last edited by Calypse; 25-3-12 at 19:44.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnfieldSouth41 View Post
    You'd think we're top of the league and have the best players in the league with these bolded comments ive highlighted.

    We are 7th. Yes 7th. 2 points ahead of Sunderland and Everton, 3 points ahead of Swansea. 28 points off Top and you're basically saying our players would walk in to the league leaders side. I don't think so somehow. The League table suggests there is clearly a huge gulf in quality of players.

    United have the best defense record in the league so why would Pepe and Skrtel walk into that ?

    Rooney has scored more than double Suarez so why would Suarez get in ?

    We've got to seriously stop kidding ourselves.

    28 points difference in class. Fact.
    So you think you don't need 11 players in a team, you only need 4? You're delusional. Being top doesn't mean you have the 11 best players in the league in your first team.

    For the record:

    Reina would walk in to Man U's side because goalkeeper is a position they've badly struggled with this year. De Gea even got dropped.

    Skrtel would get in from the way he's playing this season because Man U's side has been badly struggling with injuries to their senior players in the centre of defence.

    Lucas would walk into their midfield, which was so poor Ferguson had to ask Scholes to come out of retirement.

    Suarez is simply a class player. A pairing of he and Rooney would be a nightmare for any side to deal with.
    Last edited by Afterthought; 25-3-12 at 20:04.
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    United don't have the best defence in the league, city do and then united(because of our last two games) go back two games ago and we had a better defence that united, but due to injuries we don't
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv4EveR5 View Post
    Nonsense. They have Bale Lennon and VDV are superior players SD would not get a look in
    http://www.soccernews.com/redknapp-w...downing/79243/

    And no, the only winger at Spurs better than Downing is Bale. Lennon is crap, VDV is as much a winger as Reina is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinski View Post
    Lucas being our best players explains why we're not good enough. He would not even make the bench for any of the top 6!
    You're right he wouldn't make the bench, he'd be in the first 11 every week.
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    2 defeats before lucas got injured, Its a shame he got injured he could of got into the team of the year....
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKReds1892 View Post
    2 defeats before lucas got injured, Its a shame he got injured he could of got into the team of the year....
    Did we not win 2 games before he got inured?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerrhard View Post
    http://www.soccernews.com/redknapp-w...downing/79243/

    And no, the only winger at Spurs better than Downing is Bale. Lennon is crap, VDV is as much a winger as Reina is.
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    Sometimes I wish Carroll and Hendo would read this and hand in a transfer request, not because they are bad players but they get total and undeserving critisism for things that are out of their control. The crap I hear about, "They are 35 million and 16 million, they should be doing more." etc, it's called buying potential, if this wasn't the case then you could go out and buy young up and comers for next to nothing because in theory atm they aren't a good player. Second of all, never, ever tell me that Hendo and Andy don't put in for the shirt, every time Andy plays he is the one at the start of the build up, he is the one going down back and helping our miserable corner defending and if I do remember correctly on LFC TV it was stated Henderson is the best trainer of the lot. These young ones could grow up to be the back bone of England, your country, if we don't persevere with great talents like these no young player will want to come to us, why do you think every young kid wants to play for Arsenal?
    Last edited by ForzaAdorjan; 27-3-12 at 07:01. Reason: Typo
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    People in the UK are far too reliant on the medias' opinion to make their own opinion!! Henderson is a young player i truely believe that he will be a superb signing, Yes he has ppor moments, but he also has the ability, ive seen it at times, just needs confidence.

    Carroll needs taught how to get into danger areas. Employ Fowler and make him Carrolls mentor. ( imagine that pair on a night out )

    Our players are slated in a very over zealous way by the media, we all know this, so make your own opinion. Because i dont see Uniteds players like Anderson or Carrick getting slated, and the definatly dont live up to their Transfer fees, nor does Romelu Lukaku, (Yes the man that still hasnt scored).
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  23. #143  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnfieldSouth41 View Post
    I wouldnt say their midfield doesnt work in Europe though.

    3 Champions League finals in 4 years. No other team has done that in recent years.
    Barcelona?
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  24. #144  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rederman View Post
    is he playing like a 20 millon player ?
    yes or no ?
    If we had bought him for 7m, would that have made him any better?
    The price tags are completely irrelevant with regards to how we perform on the pitch. And isn't that what matters?
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