Liverpool vs Wigan 24 March 2012 Official Match Thread.

[DudeksGoatieBeard]

Well, I was at the game today, and our players looked like they think their league campaigns already over, Flanno played well and Sterling did well in his 8 minute cameo.

Carra won 2 header's all game a mostly just made an extra man and left Flanno or Skrtel to make the tackles, I'm sorry, we've defended him for too long and refused to accept he's made an indreasing number of mistake in the last 2 seasons and from the beginning of this, he's a liability now, we were far from our best today, but probably still should have won, they rarely threatened and we let 2 soft goals in again, the defence with Carra in it is not good enough.

Agree 100%. Now is the time to give Coates an 8 game run out for the rest of the season so that he gets used to the pace of the EPL (let him get the mistakes out of his system now). Next season its almost certain Agger will get injured and the last thing we want is Carragher playing games at this level. Carragher has been a fantastic servant to LFC but surely being the intelligent man he is he can see that he is now a liability and will not get any better. Give him a coaching role as this would be the least he deserves. If we are to be successful we must be utterly ruthless.

[Mitchmilk]

I love Kenny to bits and there will always be a place for him at LFC but I am one of the people who never wanted Rafa to go. I would welcome him back with open arms and he loves the club and the fans that much he would jump at the chance of a return. I understand everyone's loyalty to Kenny and I'm sure that if Kenny thinks somebody can do a better job he will stand aside.

[Maudes77]

Where on earth is Bellamy by the way??

Was he injured?

[RedMedicineForAll]

Wow

There really are some clueless whoppers on here today.

Stated by the biggest one of the lot.....

Now that's irony!!

[Pedagogue]

This slide or rut has been precipitated by the disillusioning and frustrating effects of the lack of clinical finishing which has bedevilled us ALL season; confidence and self-belief is a fragile marriage.

It reached its apotheosis in the home game against Arsenal where we should have battered them but their cutting edge was made sharper by the master-class of RVP (oh for a striker like him and we'd be up in 3rd !). This was both simultaneously a symbolic and pivotal moment in our Prem season, and ironically the Gooners; they haven't looked back since and are on a sparkling run of form that's elevated them into a possible 3rd place finish, while we are shambling our way through games with lack lustre performances. Had we won 4-2, as we should have done the whole perspective would have now been different as if we were in a parallel universe.

We must now go on and win at Newcastle, show real character, restore the confidence and self-belief that has been lost since that game.

The players owe that much at least to Kenny, and their own self-esteem as well as the proud traditions the shirt represents on their backs.

[Smedds66]

I love Kenny to bits and there will always be a place for him at LFC but I am one of the people who never wanted Rafa to go. I would welcome him back with open arms and he loves the club and the fans that much he would jump at the chance of a return. I understand everyone's loyalty to Kenny and I'm sure that if Kenny thinks somebody can do a better job he will stand aside.

[ShaftyBoy]

i was at the game meself, of course like everyone else, i'm dissapointed with the result.

but let's look at the bigger picture here:

we've already won a cup, in the semi final of the FA cup, 7th in the league (not 7th from bottom), playing better footy, remember kenny's been here ONLY just over a year now and needs/deserves more time.

is giving youngsters a chance, just look at 17 year old raheem sterlings 7 minute cameo, played very well too.

i really can't believe all this knee jerk/microwave generation/ must have it now situation that a lot of folk seem to be into.

i remember a certain manager of a certain club (not a million miles away from our club...unfortunately) when he took over, that very club who before were managed by 'big-ron-from-the-old-swan-' between 1981-1986 won 2 FA cup finals, finished in the top 5 in that period.

now, when old whiskey nose took over in late 1986 he said he was 'gonna buy the league', before there was any transfer windows, he spent money like there was no tomorrow, and nearly 4 years after that, he won his first trophy (just), the FA cup against crystal palace...and boy were they jammy in that match against crystal palace.

oh yeah...they finished 13th in the league that year too but hey, lets just sweep that under the carpet just like sky/bbc/itv/the general media and the line dancers for jesus have done, i mean, it's allright to throw all that crap at us about kenny wasting all that money blah blah blah (never once mentioning the money he got for the likes of meireiles, benayoun, babel, ngog, poulsen and the big greek) but hey, don't mention how much money fergie wasted and was so close to getting the sack, no sireebob.

WE'RE LIVERPOOL FFS!!!! BACK KENNY AND TO HELL WITH THEM ALL!!!!

....one other thing, 2 scots win 1 european champions cup each (1968 and 1999) and get knighthoods, 1 english man wins 3 european champions cups in 5 years (1977,1978 and 1981)....need i say anymore ?

[cravenz]

i was at the game meself, of course like everyone else, i'm dissapointed with the result.

but let's look at the bigger picture here:

we've already won a cup, in the semi final of the FA cup, 7th in the league (not 7th from bottom), playing better footy, remember kenny's been here ONLY just over a year now and needs/deserves more time.

is giving youngsters a chance, just look at 17 year old raheem sterlings 7 minute cameo, played very well too.

i really can't believe all this knee jerk/microwave generation/ must have it now situation that a lot of folk seem to be into.

i remember a certain manager of a certain club (not a million miles away from our club...unfortunately) when he took over, that very club who before were managed by 'big-ron-from-the-old-swan-' between 1981-1986 won 2 FA cup finals, finished in the top 5 in that period.

now, when old whiskey nose took over in late 1986 he said he was 'gonna buy the league', before there was any transfer windows, he spent money like there was no tomorrow, and nearly 4 years after that, he won his first trophy (just), the FA cup against crystal palace...and boy were they jammy in that match against crystal palace.

oh yeah...they finished 13th in the league that year too but hey, lets just sweep that under the carpet just like sky/bbc/itv/the general media and the line dancers for jesus have done, i mean, it's allright to throw all that crap at us about kenny wasting all that money blah blah blah (never once mentioning the money he got for the likes of meireiles, benayoun, babel, ngog, poulsen and the big greek) but hey, don't mention how much money fergie wasted and was so close to getting the sack, no sireebob.

WE'RE LIVERPOOL FFS!!!! BACK KENNY AND TO HELL WITH THEM ALL!!!!

....one other thing, 2 scots win 1 european champions cup each (1968 and 1999) and get knighthoods, 1 english man wins 3 european champions cups in 5 years (1977,1978 and 1981)....need i say anymore ?

Agree in general that we should back the manager, but I think some of the things you are bringing up amounts to the clutching of straws. Kenny's been here over a year and spent, Roy was here for half a season. Youth finally played, but have you looked at what Kenny said regarding youth game time recently? We really need to stop romanticising about the past because in all seriousness, the game has changed. Not on the field, but in the monetary aspect of the game.

[Ayub]

i was at the game meself, of course like everyone else, i'm dissapointed with the result.

but let's look at the bigger picture here:

we've already won a cup, in the semi final of the FA cup, 7th in the league (not 7th from bottom), playing better footy, remember kenny's been here ONLY just over a year now and needs/deserves more time.

is giving youngsters a chance, just look at 17 year old raheem sterlings 7 minute cameo, played very well too.

i really can't believe all this knee jerk/microwave generation/ must have it now situation that a lot of folk seem to be into.

i remember a certain manager of a certain club (not a million miles away from our club...unfortunately) when he took over, that very club who before were managed by 'big-ron-from-the-old-swan-' between 1981-1986 won 2 FA cup finals, finished in the top 5 in that period.

now, when old whiskey nose took over in late 1986 he said he was 'gonna buy the league', before there was any transfer windows, he spent money like there was no tomorrow, and nearly 4 years after that, he won his first trophy (just), the FA cup against crystal palace...and boy were they jammy in that match against crystal palace.

oh yeah...they finished 13th in the league that year too but hey, lets just sweep that under the carpet just like sky/bbc/itv/the general media and the line dancers for jesus have done, i mean, it's allright to throw all that crap at us about kenny wasting all that money blah blah blah (never once mentioning the money he got for the likes of meireiles, benayoun, babel, ngog, poulsen and the big greek) but hey, don't mention how much money fergie wasted and was so close to getting the sack, no sireebob.

WE'RE LIVERPOOL FFS!!!! BACK KENNY AND TO HELL WITH THEM ALL!!!!

....one other thing, 2 scots win 1 european champions cup each (1968 and 1999) and get knighthoods, 1 english man wins 3 european champions cups in 5 years (1977,1978 and 1981)....need i say anymore ?

Sentiments are not going to win us matches - you are comparing fergi and Kenny - it is a non starter simpley because you are talking of a manager who has been at a club for almost 23 odd years and has won 12 PL titles, two european cups and I think three F A Cups - you are talking about a manager who has rebuilt teams on four occassions and a manager who is in total control of his club and righly so - Kenny I am afraid is no match to Fergi and it pains for me to say that but that is the truth - we will never know how things would have panned out had Keeny not resigned back then but I am sorry you cannot live in the past - Kenny had been out of the game for a long time - it is one thing keeping up to date with football but quite another managing a football clubs now - the whole landscape has changed - I do not want Kenny to get sacked but I am afraid he will not win the PL or make us challengers - the best he can hope for next season is challenging for 4th spot but even that is going to be very very difficult - by the end of his contract the most he will achieve is winning the Carling Cup and perhaps the FA Cup but no more - that is the harsh reality I am afraid

Luck was mentioned when Fergi won his frist trophy - yes that is correct and luck was on his side when he won the trebble etc - but we tend to forget the luck we had under GH when we won the FA CUP - Carling Cup and UFEA Cup (We won the Carling Cup on penalties against Birmingham and we were lucky - We won the FA Cup agaisnt Arsenal and we were completely played off the park for 80 mins or so including a blatant penalty not given to Arsenal and won the UFEA Cup after a sudden death own goal) come to Raf and we won the CL and luck played a major part in it, we won the FA cup and were lucky to win that too - come to Kenny and the Carling Cup - again we had luck on our side but not as much as in previous finals mentioned above - so we need to be a tad careful when we mention luck playing a part of success of other clubs

Mau U are light years ahead of us and will continue to be so until our club gets his house in order - we are starting with our new owners but I am afraid it will be a long time before we will lift the elusive PL trophy - currently I do not think we have a manager or the players who can win us the PL - hence winning domestic cup competitions is out best options

[ShaftyBoy]

Agree in general that we should back the manager, but I think some of the things you are bringing up amounts to the clutching of straws. Kenny's been here over a year and spent, Roy was here for half a season. Youth finally played, but have you looked at what Kenny said regarding youth game time recently? We really need to stop romanticising about the past because in all seriousness, the game has changed. Not on the field, but in the monetary aspect of the game.

kenny saying about the youth only playing because of injuries was just for the general media (whom he really has no time for) but behind closed doors i'm sure he's saying to the youngsters who have been given a chance (flanagan, robinson, shelvey, sterling and to a certain extent, spearing) keep working hard boys, you'll get your chance.

[ShaftyBoy]

Sentiments are not going to win us matches - you are comparing fergi and Kenny - it is a non starter simpley because you are talking of a manager who has been at a club for almost 23 odd years and has won 12 PL titles, two european cups and I think three F A Cups - you are talking about a manager who has rebuilt teams on four occassions and a manager who is in total control of his club and righly so - Kenny I am afraid is no match to Fergi and it pains for me to say that but that is the truth - we will never know how things would have panned out had Keeny not resigned back then but I am sorry you cannot live in the past - Kenny had been out of the game for a long time - it is one thing keeping up to date with football but quite another managing a football clubs now - the whole landscape has changed - I do not want Kenny to get sacked but I am afraid he will not win the PL or make us challengers - the best he can hope for next season is challenging for 4th spot but even that is going to be very very difficult - by the end of his contract the most he will achieve is winning the Carling Cup and perhaps the FA Cup but no more - that is the harsh reality I am afraid

Luck was mentioned when Fergi won his frist trophy - yes that is correct and luck was on his side when he won the trebble etc - but we tend to forget the luck we had under GH when we won the FA CUP - Carling Cup and UFEA Cup (We won the Carling Cup on penalties against Birmingham and we were lucky - We won the FA Cup agaisnt Arsenal and we were completely played off the park for 80 mins or so including a blatant penalty not given to Arsenal and won the UFEA Cup after a sudden death own goal) come to Raf and we won the CL and luck played a major part in it, we won the FA cup and were lucky to win that too - come to Kenny and the Carling Cup - again we had luck on our side but not as much as in previous finals mentioned above - so we need to be a tad careful when we mention luck playing a part of success of other clubs

Mau U are light years ahead of us and will continue to be so until our club gets his house in order - we are starting with our new owners but I am afraid it will be a long time before we will lift the elusive PL trophy - currently I do not think we have a manager or the players who can win us the PL - hence winning domestic cup competitions is out best options

fergi has proved he is the greatest club manager in the world and on a few occasions has rebuilt teams, in terms of what he has done that's untouchable, but, as i said when he first took over that club they were in quite a healthy position, winning 2 FA cups under ron atkinson and finishing in the top 5 every season.

my point is, it took fergie nearly 4 years to win his first trophy (and hey, were'nt they so jammy) whilst finishing 13th in the league (season 1989/90)....can we cut kenny some slack ? when he took over in january of last year we were languishing in the bottom half of the table, give him at least another full season (i'd give him at least 2 but maybe that's just me)....this is kenny's first full season, we've won the carling cup, in the semi final of the FA cup and, as mad as it sounds with 8 games to go, could still mathematically make the 4th champions league place.

another thing, we are missing key players through injury, (lucas, agger, johnson, bellamy and now kelly), it's a squad game i know but any team would miss one of them, never mind five of them at the same time.

all i ask is for you all to be patient, give kenny the time he deserves because it's not just other teams we are up against week in week out, it's the whole british media circus (sky sports, bbc, itv and all those tabloid rag-mags) who are anti liverpool, just look at the suarez situation, there was a total witch hunt against that man, the only thing he was guilty of was playing for liverpool...'nuff said.

[bilsland]

You tell 'em Shaftyboy

the parallel is relevant, not to mention that Ferguson had the benefit(or luck) to have a group of young stars come out of their academy at the same time that were the basis of his success for years. He wasn't forced to buy wholesale, and lets face it some of his subseqent buys were expensive disasters just like ours. Lucky for him he didn't have to build his success with SKY repeating every failure to the unthinking masses every ten seconds.

[SuarezIsClassy08]

i love kenny to bits and there will always be a place for him at lfc but i am one of the people who never wanted rafa to go. I would welcome him back with open arms and he loves the club and the fans that much he would jump at the chance of a return. I understand everyone's loyalty to kenny and i'm sure that if kenny thinks somebody can do a better job he will stand aside.

amen!

[NYscouser]

i was at the game meself, of course like everyone else, i'm dissapointed with the result.

but let's look at the bigger picture here:

we've already won a cup, in the semi final of the FA cup, 7th in the league (not 7th from bottom), playing better footy, remember kenny's been here ONLY just over a year now and needs/deserves more time.

is giving youngsters a chance, just look at 17 year old raheem sterlings 7 minute cameo, played very well too.

i really can't believe all this knee jerk/microwave generation/ must have it now situation that a lot of folk seem to be into.

i remember a certain manager of a certain club (not a million miles away from our club...unfortunately) when he took over, that very club who before were managed by 'big-ron-from-the-old-swan-' between 1981-1986 won 2 FA cup finals, finished in the top 5 in that period.

now, when old whiskey nose took over in late 1986 he said he was 'gonna buy the league', before there was any transfer windows, he spent money like there was no tomorrow, and nearly 4 years after that, he won his first trophy (just), the FA cup against crystal palace...and boy were they jammy in that match against crystal palace.

oh yeah...they finished 13th in the league that year too but hey, lets just sweep that under the carpet just like sky/bbc/itv/the general media and the line dancers for jesus have done, i mean, it's allright to throw all that crap at us about kenny wasting all that money blah blah blah (never once mentioning the money he got for the likes of meireiles, benayoun, babel, ngog, poulsen and the big greek) but hey, don't mention how much money fergie wasted and was so close to getting the sack, no sireebob.

WE'RE LIVERPOOL FFS!!!! BACK KENNY AND TO HELL WITH THEM ALL!!!!

....one other thing, 2 scots win 1 european champions cup each (1968 and 1999) and get knighthoods, 1 english man wins 3 european champions cups in 5 years (1977,1978 and 1981)....need i say anymore ?

Didnt Kenny jsut say something about he only gave the oyungsters a chance due to injuries?

[Stim]

I can't wait for this to be unstickied.

[ShaftyBoy]

Didnt Kenny jsut say something about he only gave the oyungsters a chance due to injuries?

i did cover that

[ShaftyBoy]

I can't wait for this to be unstickied.

or unstim'd

[jakesing]

Did anyone else notice how, in the last 2 minutes of the game, when Stevie and Luis and Jonjo were fighting to get possession back for one last push at goal, Andy was literally standing still in the middle, not arsing himself to even make it look like he was fighting. I apologize if this has been brought up, but I saw that and literally started yelling at my TV.

[Raphaelthe2nd]

I've watched it again, we weren't nearly as awful as people are making out, below par, legs went when their second went in, our main problem, as it was against QPR was the defence letting 2 soft goals in. That defence needs sorting for Sunday, no Carra would be a start, especially against Newcastle who play a lot of angled balls from deep into their strikers.