Sterling is 17. Jonjo is 20. Next.Originally Posted by SystemOfADowning
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Sterling is 17. Jonjo is 20. Next.
He's a 21 year old professional footballer though. It's his job. He should be able to shoulder responsibility.
No. But the general agument that because Lucas came good he will to means fa.
Henderson for me has little effect on games, can be nice & tidy, on a rare moment even expessive with a pass. But generally seems to be playing within a comfort zone & lacks confidence with decision making sometimes.
How many times you see Henderson even in top 5 voting for MoM - maybe once or twice this entire season.
Appreciate his being out of position on the right often , but I can't help feeling it's cost us points along the way. I'd rather see Dirk out there, seeing we didn't seem to consider it the summer other than switching Downing around.
Yeah can see the potential, but needs to get out of the comfort zone & have more of an effect on games to be worth the starting spot Kenny seems to have set aside for him the majority of the season.
Next season will be big for him, could have more of a fight on for a place if we make some decent additions in the summer.
Personally I see more potential in Shelvey, who don't seem to be getting the minutes. Granted he don't work as hard, but being the best trainer I don't necessarily think should make you worthy of a starting place.
If Kenny had the balls perhaps he should play Hendo in the middle & Gerrard on the right - at least we would get some effective service from that area & give Hendo a chance to develop his more natural game here.
This myth that Lucas was bad for us to begin with needs to end. It's ******* ridiculous. You are confusing being overlooked due to making little impact going forward for being 'bad'. He was solid, and made very few mistakes, but played cautiously. That means fans hate you, for some reason I'll never understand, while awful players like Babel got a cult following despite being absolutely awful, yet taking risks meant he was loved.
I do think the biggest issue with Henderson is where to play him. He does not seem to have the passing range to be a playmaker and does not get in the box enough or play the killer through ball to play in between the lines. I think he may become a a strong defensive mid one day, because he can tackle and holds onto the ball well. Problem with this though is that should not have been a position we worked on last summer.
'This myth that Lucas was bad for us to begin with needs to end.' Now that is spot on.
It also highlights the often overlooked fact that many so called fans on here have no clue about what a good player is. The stupidity continues.
Wasn't part of the problem Lucas had was behind Gerrard, Alonso and Masch for the central midfield spot. So when he was playing fans were expecting him to play at least at a similar quality to the 3 ahead of him which was not going to happen in his first couple of seasons.
However, have we seen the real Jordan Henderson. If he has to spend time learning a new role or adapting to a new style then it may take a little time. Especially in terms of knowing when not to stick to that role he has been given.
some utter whoppers in this thread
I don't hear anyone saying that. The argument is about being too quick to write young players off.
Sterling has played 10 minutes in the first team. Shelvey has Bendtner-like levels of self belief.
Players develop at different ages. To call a 21 year old midfielder thats shown some very good signs a 'coward', is a complete joke.
Agreed - I think Hendo will grow into a better player. His problem at the moment is a massive loss in confidence. It wouldnt harm him to have a couple of games off, out of the firing line. Also, in his defence, he has not always been played in his best position.
I think there is a difference - Lucas had obvious ability with the ball, could see a pass, control a ball and looked to intercept the ball rather than 'simply' tackle, even at the start of his career.
What he was not good at was getting used to the pace of the Premiership AND knowing when to play football and when to get rid of the ball.
What he did was refine his 'tackling' and become the best 'robber' of a ball in the Premiership. Once he upped his pacing of the game his quality and reading of the game raised his contribution to a new level.
Henderson has, for me, several shortfalls on Lucas, as a starting point. He already has the Premiership experience and is used to the pace of the game. He doesn't have the same basic touch and control.
He has a great engine, but needs to improve his touch, control and vision. I don't know if it is so easy to raise these elements of basic skills? He can be more aggressive with his passing
but when he misses passes it tends to kill his confidence and you can see his confidence drop and he goes into his short pass shell. BUT he has got time on his side!
Perfect summary!
Sorry but I am still waiting to see his first TACKLE. He floats alongside players, looks like he is challenging them and then lets them go when they get onto the back four! Is that tackling? It's a new definition!
You are more direct than me, so I will be more direct back. I thought it was a waster of £14m to buy a player who plays in CM positions when we so badly needed players in wide areas last summer. I do not see where you could fudge him into our side and for that he would maybe be kept another season by me if I was manager.
I don't even get the whole 'he's a good player'. He's mediocre at best. A lack of courage doesn't explain how getting the basics wrong on a consistent basis. He gives away possession a lot for someone who plays a lot of short passes. At least when Adam gives away the ball he's trying to stretch the play!
He isn't a defensive midfielder (plus we have one in Lucas - why buy someone who needs 3 season to be a bit like Lucas? - and a **** argument that someone made it then everyone else will)
Isn't a box to box midfielder, and then definitely not an attacking mid either, so what does he do? The way people bang on it's like they think he's the next Xavi when he first broke into the Barca team.
Don't ever compare Lucas and Henderson again, it is borderline blasphemy.
Lucas was always better, and will always be better. Henderson could yet become a decent English CM, but he is never going to be one that leads by example.
I think it was a penalty. Also, his red card contributed to us going out of the FA Cup.
He had a solid first season, was poor for the first half of the next season bar the Newcastle game and awful for Jan/Feb but improved in the last few games. He then became good next season, great the next, and awsomeness personified this season.
Lucas couldn't tackle or pass the ball forwards. The two things he's improved on massively.
He would go into a tackle that he was favourite to win and get brushed off like a rag doll. It's definitely not a myth that he was out of his depth early on.
I don't know if Jonjo is the answer but what I do know is - Henderson is NOT!
I saw more out of 10 minutes of Jonjo than anything I have seen out of Henderson since Pre-season put together.
At least Jonjo came on and played with a sense of urgency - too bad he was playing with about 8 other dead men walking but at least he came on and got right down to business. A midfielder who actually looks up and forwards and pushes the ball vertically north instead of east/west/south.
The only way Liverpool's accountant gets to sleep at night with Henderson's 20 Mil price tag hanging around his neck like a noose - is the fact that at least we do have a young CM with legit bags of potential in Jonjo to balance the conscience ledger books. To be fair, its gotta be so hard for Kenny to look at Jonjo and reminded WTF he was thinking blowing so much money on Henderson when you already had Jonjo here.
That is simply not possible.
Shelvey has Bendtner-like levels of self belief.
Utter rubbish. He did a decent job. No he didn't win every tackle, nobody does. What the hell is your point?
Its frightening that Kenny could see him as someone who could help the team. I can see with comolli but not Kenny.
It is very surprising. He is a manufactured and mechanical player totally lacking in any flair or initiative. As Snipes says above Shelvey shows more spark and gumption whenever he is on the pitch but he hardly gets a look in.
So decent that fans at Anfield booed him. Are you for real? My point is that it's not a myth that Lucas was poor at the start of his Liverpool career.
Henderson cost 3 times more than Lucas.
Lucas always had technique and judgement. He took time to adapt of English football.
Sadly, Hendo, Downing, and Adam were bought because of their ability to create chances--isn't this what DC said? When they have, we have mostly wasted them. And now they mostly don't.
Hendo should take a seat on the bench, or in the stands with CA.
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