Is Henderson as bad as what Lucas initially was for us?

[Paulite]

This is getting very boring very fast. I watched him and he was a poor tackler and he rarely passed forwards. Like a lot of people I didn't think he'd make it here. I was wrong.

If you think he was great good for you. I don't get why you're picking on me and not the countless other people in this thread that thought his early displays were sub par. Can we just leave it at that?

I'm picking on you because you're the one still posting this utter rubbish.

As for the bold bit, learn from your mistakes, don't repeat them.

[Sneets]

Yeh, i like Jonjo a lot to, i think they could play in the same team in the future for us and be excellent.

As far as i'm concerned we've got 2 cracking young central midfielders and hopefully they'll grow together and be here for a long time.

I wish I could agree with you on Henderson.

[Raphaelthe2nd]

Yeh, i like Jonjo a lot to, i think they could play in the same team in the future for us and be excellent.

As far as i'm concerned we've got 2 cracking young central midfielders and hopefully they'll grow together and be here for a long time.

I concur

[Gazza74]

I wish I could agree with you on Henderson.

It's not upto me to make you, it's upto Jordan to do that.

Hopefully he will.

[Feeling-The-Pull]

I wish I could agree with you on Henderson.

Not read the posts on this because far too many.

Noticed Gazza posted something positive for a change.

Awful signing. I said so at the time.

Oooh he's got an England cap; let's spend £20m on him.

Zero presence.

[azzalfc]

Henderson is Lucas of 3 years ago... But without the heart!

For a midfielder... I can't remember him ever making a tackle?

[Skip Bayless]

I'm picking on you because you're the one still posting this utter rubbish.

As for the bold bit, learn from your mistakes, don't repeat them.

Just shut up. You're sounding like an idiot.

[DJDont101]

Henderson, along with 5-6 others players in our squad are not good enough to bring back Champs League football.

[Feeling-The-Pull]

Just shut up. You're sounding like an idiot.

Now now Ziderm.

You're better than that. Just like Jordan.

[Raphaelthe2nd]

I rate Henderson, he's going to be a good player for us

[Feeling-The-Pull]

I rate Henderson, he's going to be a good player for us

Why?

[MeanMrMustard]

I've been watching LFC since the late 70's and seen a lot of good midfield players. And some not so good ones. Henderson wouldn't even make the latter category.

Having seen him now having played 40 odd games I still can't figure out what he is all about. He is one of the most ineffective, anonymous players I have ever seen. I can't honestly pinpoint a single quality that qualifies him to play for this club.

This cry that "he's being played out of position, he's not a RM blady blady blah.." is getting so tiresome, and smacks of lazy analysis. Even if its not his best or preferred position surely that doesn't stop him demonstrating the basic skills of a professional footballer. And this "neat and tidy" tag makes me despair. Neat and tidy in terms of keeping and moving the ball is the absolute bare minimum that should be expected of any footballer at this club, or even any club, or even pub, team.
It cannot and must not be held up as some great quality he has.

Look at his contribution over the season. What has he done? What impact has he made? What value has he added to the squad? Nothing, none, zip.

To those who point to his great potential I ask, what do you see, please tell me. He is 21, not 18. He has over a season prem experience with Sunderland. He speaks the language and has no culture issues to contend with. He is a poor passer in anything more than the simple ones, he lacks vision, he lacks touch. he lacks courage (in a mental sense). He is an ineffective tackler, he can't shoot or cross a ball, he creates nothing and is not a goal threat. So what does he or can he do, where is this great potential that some on here speak glowingly of.

He may improve in time or learn how to exert some influence on a game. He may learn to become more positionally astute. He may develop more confidence and belief, and he may develop a better understanding of tactics. But if at 21 he has not mastered the basic skills of the game, and how to execute them consistently as a matter of routine, he is never going to be a real player. Harsh maybe, but nothing he has done at the club can convince me otherwise.

[vonStauffenberg]

I've been watching LFC since the late 70's and seen a lot of good midfield players. And some not so good ones. Henderson wouldn't even make the latter category.

Having seen him now having played 40 odd games I still can't figure out what he is all about. He is one of the most ineffective, anonymous players I have ever seen. I can't honestly pinpoint a single quality that qualifies him to play for this club.

This cry that "he's being played out of position, he's not a RM blady blady blah.." is getting so tiresome, and smacks of lazy analysis. Even if its not his best or preferred position surely that doesn't stop him demonstrating the basic skills of a professional footballer. And this "neat and tidy" tag makes me despair. Neat and tidy in terms of keeping and moving the ball is the absolute bare minimum that should be expected of any footballer at this club, or even any club, or even pub, team.
It cannot and must not be held up as some great quality he has.

Look at his contribution over the season. What has he done? What impact has he made? What value has he added to the squad? Nothing, none, zip.

To those who point to his great potential I ask, what do you see, please tell me. He is 21, not 18. He has over a season prem experience with Sunderland. He speaks the language and has no culture issues to contend with. He is a poor passer in anything more than the simple ones, he lacks vision, he lacks touch. he lacks courage (in a mental sense). He is an ineffective tackler, he can't shoot or cross a ball, he creates nothing and is not a goal threat. So what does he or can he do, where is this great potential that some on here speak glowingly of.

He may improve in time or learn how to exert some influence on a game. He may learn to become more positionally astute. He may develop more confidence and belief, and he may develop a better understanding of tactics. But if at 21 he has not mastered the basic skills of the game, and how to execute them consistently as a matter of routine, he is never going to be a real player. Harsh maybe, but nothing he has done at the club can convince me otherwise.

Agreed. Can't for the life of me see what others do in him. I said after the derby (in which I thought he had another shocker) how poor he was. Low and behold, people were rating him 7.5/10 for his contribution. Doesn't have one exceptional (or above average) quality for me.

[DiscoDjimi]

Agreed. Can't for the life of me see what others do in him. I said after the derby (in which I thought he had another shocker) how poor he was. Low and behold, people were rating him 7.5/10 for his contribution. Doesn't have one exceptional (or above average) quality for me.

He actually sort of impressed me in the derby, that was the first time where he had a shocking start that he didn't hide, he kept going and kept trying. I thought that was progress, he then promptly went back to being Redknapp 2.0 the game after though but it was nice.

[DJDont101]

I've been watching LFC since the late 70's and seen a lot of good midfield players. And some not so good ones. Henderson wouldn't even make the latter category.

Having seen him now having played 40 odd games I still can't figure out what he is all about. He is one of the most ineffective, anonymous players I have ever seen. I can't honestly pinpoint a single quality that qualifies him to play for this club.

This cry that "he's being played out of position, he's not a RM blady blady blah.." is getting so tiresome, and smacks of lazy analysis. Even if its not his best or preferred position surely that doesn't stop him demonstrating the basic skills of a professional footballer. And this "neat and tidy" tag makes me despair. Neat and tidy in terms of keeping and moving the ball is the absolute bare minimum that should be expected of any footballer at this club, or even any club, or even pub, team.
It cannot and must not be held up as some great quality he has.

Look at his contribution over the season. What has he done? What impact has he made? What value has he added to the squad? Nothing, none, zip.

To those who point to his great potential I ask, what do you see, please tell me. He is 21, not 18. He has over a season prem experience with Sunderland. He speaks the language and has no culture issues to contend with. He is a poor passer in anything more than the simple ones, he lacks vision, he lacks touch. he lacks courage (in a mental sense). He is an ineffective tackler, he can't shoot or cross a ball, he creates nothing and is not a goal threat. So what does he or can he do, where is this great potential that some on here speak glowingly of.

He may improve in time or learn how to exert some influence on a game. He may learn to become more positionally astute. He may develop more confidence and belief, and he may develop a better understanding of tactics. But if at 21 he has not mastered the basic skills of the game, and how to execute them consistently as a matter of routine, he is never going to be a real player. Harsh maybe, but nothing he has done at the club can convince me otherwise.

Spot on

[Liverdinner]

I rated Lucas, not so Henderson.

[Snipes]

I've been watching LFC since the late 70's and seen a lot of good midfield players. And some not so good ones. Henderson wouldn't even make the latter category.

Having seen him now having played 40 odd games I still can't figure out what he is all about. He is one of the most ineffective, anonymous players I have ever seen. I can't honestly pinpoint a single quality that qualifies him to play for this club.

This cry that "he's being played out of position, he's not a RM blady blady blah.." is getting so tiresome, and smacks of lazy analysis. Even if its not his best or preferred position surely that doesn't stop him demonstrating the basic skills of a professional footballer. And this "neat and tidy" tag makes me despair. Neat and tidy in terms of keeping and moving the ball is the absolute bare minimum that should be expected of any footballer at this club, or even any club, or even pub, team.
It cannot and must not be held up as some great quality he has.

Look at his contribution over the season. What has he done? What impact has he made? What value has he added to the squad? Nothing, none, zip.

To those who point to his great potential I ask, what do you see, please tell me. He is 21, not 18. He has over a season prem experience with Sunderland. He speaks the language and has no culture issues to contend with. He is a poor passer in anything more than the simple ones, he lacks vision, he lacks touch. he lacks courage (in a mental sense). He is an ineffective tackler, he can't shoot or cross a ball, he creates nothing and is not a goal threat. So what does he or can he do, where is this great potential that some on here speak glowingly of.

He may improve in time or learn how to exert some influence on a game. He may learn to become more positionally astute. He may develop more confidence and belief, and he may develop a better understanding of tactics. But if at 21 he has not mastered the basic skills of the game, and how to execute them consistently as a matter of routine, he is never going to be a real player. Harsh maybe, but nothing he has done at the club can convince me otherwise.

That right there pretty much captures every single way I have described Jordan Henderson from the day we were linked to buying him, to the day we insanely bought him, to the day he played his first pre season game for us, to the day he played his first competitive game for us, to every single in-game and post game comment I have ever made about the lad right up to this very moment. Captures every sentiment I have used to describe Henderson from day 1 till now.

I think the only person here who was more incredulous and critical of the Henderson signing than me was Fowi - he took a lot of abuse for stating what an average player at best we had just wasted 20 Mil, from a lot of people on this forum. There ought to be a whole bunch of people at his feet right now munching on some humble crow - amazingly there are still a fair few hanging on for dear life that he will someday become an amazing players for us Its just jaw dropping!

[Skip Bayless]

That right there pretty much captures every single way I have described Jordan Henderson from the day we were linked to buying him, to the day we insanely bought him, to the day he played his first pre season game for us, to the day he played his first competitive game for us, to every single in-game and post game comment I have ever made about the lad right up to this very moment. Captures every sentiment I have used to describe Henderson from day 1 till now.

I think the only person here who was more incredulous and critical of the Henderson signing than me was Fowi - he took a lot of abuse for stating what an average player at best we had just wasted 20 Mil, from a lot of people on this forum. There ought to be a whole bunch of people at his feet right now munching on some humble crow - amazingly there are still a fair few hanging on for dear life that he will someday become an amazing players for us Its just jaw dropping!

Yeah but everyone wrote of Lucas and look what happened.

[Liverdinner]

Yeah but everyone wrote of Lucas and look what happened.

I didnt.

[Skip Bayless]

I didnt.

Cool. I was just kidding anyway. I'm tired of the 'Lucas turned it round' argument considering he's the only Liverpool player I can remember in my lifetime that did. I don't rate Henderson at all.

[Liverdinner]

Cool. I was just kidding anyway. I'm tired of the 'Lucas turned it round' argument considering he's the only Liverpool player I can remember in my lifetime that did. I don't rate Henderson at all.

Apologies.

Me either, and I dont understand why it is not the behaviour of a good supporter to not rate our players.

[Raphaelthe2nd]

I've been watching LFC since the late 70's and seen a lot of good midfield players. And some not so good ones. Henderson wouldn't even make the latter category.

Having seen him now having played 40 odd games I still can't figure out what he is all about. He is one of the most ineffective, anonymous players I have ever seen. I can't honestly pinpoint a single quality that qualifies him to play for this club.

This cry that "he's being played out of position, he's not a RM blady blady blah.." is getting so tiresome, and smacks of lazy analysis. Even if its not his best or preferred position surely that doesn't stop him demonstrating the basic skills of a professional footballer. And this "neat and tidy" tag makes me despair. Neat and tidy in terms of keeping and moving the ball is the absolute bare minimum that should be expected of any footballer at this club, or even any club, or even pub, team.
It cannot and must not be held up as some great quality he has.

Look at his contribution over the season. What has he done? What impact has he made? What value has he added to the squad? Nothing, none, zip.

To those who point to his great potential I ask, what do you see, please tell me. He is 21, not 18. He has over a season prem experience with Sunderland. He speaks the language and has no culture issues to contend with. He is a poor passer in anything more than the simple ones, he lacks vision, he lacks touch. he lacks courage (in a mental sense). He is an ineffective tackler, he can't shoot or cross a ball, he creates nothing and is not a goal threat. So what does he or can he do, where is this great potential that some on here speak glowingly of.

He may improve in time or learn how to exert some influence on a game. He may learn to become more positionally astute. He may develop more confidence and belief, and he may develop a better understanding of tactics. But if at 21 he has not mastered the basic skills of the game, and how to execute them consistently as a matter of routine, he is never going to be a real player. Harsh maybe, but nothing he has done at the club can convince me otherwise.

Bit of advice for you mate, go back and watch some of the 11-12 minute highlights of our games Henderson has played in and you'll find a lot of your comments and analysis of him are nonsense, his problem is in the final third when he has a chance to shoot or needs to show courage and conviction to get on the end of things, he doesn't have the confidence in that area, although his movement has got a hell of a lot better and he keeps getting in there, but at the moment he's just making up the numbers.

He not a tackler, but his pressing and closing down is getting a lot better and a lot tighter, he'll be a press the player get right on top of him and try and nick it off his toe or divert it into the path of a team mate type of midfielder who stays on his feet, a more technical player. The point of pressing/closing down isn't always that you win the ball, it's about pushing a player into an area where you are strong or where he has no options and taking the ball off him through team work, for the time being Henderson performs the role of pressing players and forcing them into areas, he does this well and we have better tacklers he can press them into the direction of.

He's also played some quality through balls this season, more than any of our other midfielders, probably more than our other best 2 put together, in quite a few of goals in the league and the cup he has been the player who has made the "playmakers" pass that has released a forward or full back in space and 1v1 in isolation with their defender, which has presented a chance for that player, or stretched the defence for that player to assist a team mate scoring.

Go back and watch some of the highlights, if you can't see that, you have a very limited view of the game, or have formed an early dislike of Henderson which you refuse to see past.

[RiiseAgainst]

Agreed. Can't for the life of me see what others do in him. I said after the derby (in which I thought he had another shocker) how poor he was. Low and behold, people were rating him 7.5/10 for his contribution. Doesn't have one exceptional (or above average) quality for me.

Wow.

Some people are going waaaayyyyy overboard.

[Syndicato]

I wish I could agree with you on Henderson.

henderson is just not good at all. The sooner some people got that into their heads the better for their blood pressure because some of us will keep pointing that out

if he turns out good during his time out here, well and good, but I just can't see that happen. I questioned this boy in pre-season and now I no longer question him- he's useless

[Syndicato]

Henderson is Lucas of 3 years ago... But without the heart!

For a midfielder... I can't remember him ever making a tackle?

the guy is useless, honestly, and now he's even becoming conspicuous by making the kind of errors that lead to goals against us

[Dioltas]

Seen a stat on Facebook from the LFC Transfer Speculations page, dunno how valid it is, but if it is true, it really just sums up an awful lot about how important Lucas is to us:

"Despite being out of action for 4 months Lucas Leiva has made 68 tackles, more than any other Liverpool player."

[MeanMrMustard]

Bit of advice for you mate, go back and watch some of the 11-12 minute highlights of our games Henderson has played in and you'll find a lot of your comments and analysis of him are nonsense, his problem is in the final third when he has a chance to shoot or needs to show courage and conviction to get on the end of things, he doesn't have the confidence in that area, although his movement has got a hell of a lot better and he keeps getting in there, but at the moment he's just making up the numbers.

He not a tackler, but his pressing and closing down is getting a lot better and a lot tighter, he'll be a press the player get right on top of him and try and nick it off his toe or divert it into the path of a team mate type of midfielder who stays on his feet, a more technical player. The point of pressing/closing down isn't always that you win the ball, it's about pushing a player into an area where you are strong or where he has no options and taking the ball off him through team work, for the time being Henderson performs the role of pressing players and forcing them into areas, he does this well and we have better tacklers he can press them into the direction of.

He's also played some quality through balls this season, more than any of our other midfielders, probably more than our other best 2 put together, in quite a few of goals in the league and the cup he has been the player who has made the "playmakers" pass that has released a forward or full back in space and 1v1 in isolation with their defender, which has presented a chance for that player, or stretched the defence for that player to assist a team mate scoring.

Go back and watch some of the highlights, if you can't see that, you have a very limited view of the game, or have formed an early dislike of Henderson which you refuse to see past.

Are you actually serious??? You want me to go back and look at 12 minute highlights of games to convince me of Henderson's greatness, or potential greatness!!!! And those "qualities" you refer to are the basic, routine bread and butter qualities of any professional footballer. And then you tell me I have a limited view of the game, and this is the best you can come up with. I ask again very simply....what contribution or impact has Henderson made at LFC over the course of this season?? And please don't insult my intelligence, or even your own, by referring to the odd accurate or incisive pass, or one goal?

Do you mind me asking how old you are, or more discreetly, from what generation are you? I'd have to assume (might be wrong of course) that you are quite young, and would not have seen the quality of midfield players we have had at this club in the past. Jordon Henderson cannot be mentioned in the same breath as the majority of them.

By the way, why would I have a personal dislike of Henderson? I don't have a dislike of any of our players, I don't know Jordan personally so how could I possibly dislike him? I'm sure he's a very nice lad. and he 's got a good attitude and I'm sure he's fine in the dressing room dynamic. The only thing I "dislike" about Henderson is the abject lack of quality and purpose in his performances for this club.

[SeventyK]

Are you actually serious??? You want me to go back and look at 12 minute highlights of games to convince me of Henderson's greatness, or potential greatness!!!! And those "qualities" you refer to are the basic, routine bread and butter qualities of any professional footballer. And then you tell me I have a limited view of the game, and this is the best you can come up with. I ask again very simply....what contribution or impact has Henderson made at LFC over the course of this season?? And please don't insult my intelligence, or even your own, by referring to the odd accurate or incisive pass, or one goal?

Do you mind me asking how old you are, or more discreetly, from what generation are you? I'd have to assume (might be wrong of course) that you are quite young, and would not have seen the quality of midfield players we have had at this club in the past. Jordon Henderson cannot be mentioned in the same breath as the majority of them.

By the way, why would I have a personal dislike of Henderson? I don't have a dislike of any of our players, I don't know Jordan personally so how could I possibly dislike him? I'm sure he's a very nice lad. and he 's got a good attitude and I'm sure he's fine in the dressing room dynamic. The only thing I "dislike" about Henderson is the abject lack of quality and purpose in his performances for this club.

I'm pretty sure he just asked you to go back, watch them and maybe your arguments would seem a little silly. Nothing about greatness.

[Raphaelthe2nd]

I'm pretty sure he just asked you to go back, watch them and maybe your arguments would seem a little silly. Nothing about greatness.

Exactly right, he has made significant contributions in a lot of games, I said watch the 12 minute highlights to illustrate this points, as you can see his qualities in those, and as they usually contain only the very best passages of our play and our goals crammed into a small space of time, he'd probably be surprised at the number of goals he's made telling conributions to, and the number of quality defence splitting passes he's made to wide and central areas that other players should really have done much better with. It's ridiculous to say he has made no contribution to our season, he's made a big contribution, even being basic about it, without his assist for the winner v Stoke, we might not have had a trip to Wembley in February.

[Fowi]

The saving grace for Henderson is that he's playing out of position at the moment. One can hope that's the case anyway.