That £100 million

[KKiSaluteU]

The worst thing anybody could do is compare us to City IMO.

Right now, we are leagues apart in every sense but literally.

i agree 100% ..but in my heart we SHOULD be able to compare ourselves to them... but i guess i will have to stop listening to my heart for a while XD

[redondemand]

you can question anything though cant you?

spend £2m and want the CL in return as minimum, doesn't happen so question it.

the OP points out City spent far much more than us and it took them 3 seasons to into the top 4 (dont foget they spent £47m the season before Mansour took over)

we have very very demanding fans and some live in cookoo world to be honest

though i agree with you in essence that we ned to be patient comparing ourselves to city is appaling mainly because of two reasons

1. They were flirting with relegation when they were first brought with championship quality players .compare to that our worst season in recent times was 7th place

2. City have bottomless pit of money and we dont have,so we cant go down the same route

[BearWithMe]

The worst thing anybody could do is compare us to City IMO.

Right now, we are leagues apart in every sense but literally.

so were not allowed to compare City when Mansour took over to Liverpool when FSG took over, because you said?

[KKiSaluteU]

so were not allowed to compare City when Mansour took over to Liverpool when FSG took over, because you said?

you can compare to whoever you want, but again the word realistic comes in mind .. thats why i agree with that statement

[daithidub]

City are in the Champs league and arguably the best team in the country right now....

I see the argument but you've picked a club with more or less endless resources to compare to which slants things. Look at Spurs or Newcastle and you'd get a more balanced comparison.

100m in truth isn't a huge amount of money relative in this league anymore but to me at least the manner in which we've spent borders on baffling. I won't pretend i know more about football than the likes of Dalglish or Comolli but i cannot for the life of me work out why most of the summer buys were sanctioned for those amounts and the (IMO) blindingly obvious deficiencies in the squad remained unaddressed. If there is a master plan at work that will only come to fruition in time then i'll eat humble pie with absolute pleasure, but i fear that's not the case and 'the plan' hasn't worked at all and we may not have the resources (like City) to put it right.

^^^^This. Simple common sense. Calling it as it is.

[Aaronh]

so were not allowed to compare City when Mansour took over to Liverpool when FSG took over, because you said?

Stop being so petty, that's not what I was insinuating in the slightest.

But if I was, I take it nothing will happen, until a second set of billionaire owners come and sweep us into the title race? And we should play happy until this happens?

Seriously, it's pointless trying to debate with some people on this forum, your blinded by a love for Dalglish.

It's fine, trust me, I love the man, but I'm happy to talk about the chance he may be going wrong at what he is doing currently.

What a petty and immature response that was, if you are happy for people to question why we spent 20m on Adam and could have got Yaya, fair enough. But I think that comparison is absurd. Get a calculator and work out why.

[BearWithMe]

though i agree with you in essence that we ned to be patient comparing ourselves to city is appaling mainly because of two reasons

1. They were flirting with relegation when they were first brought with championship quality players .compare to that our worst season in recent times was 7th place

2. City have bottomless pit of money and we dont have,so we cant go down the same route

1. City had actually finished 9th when Mansour took over and had spent £47m on new players the previous season.

2. so if a bottomless pit of Money is the answer then how are we ever going to be able to compete??? FFPR will be in full swing in a few years, clubs will have to break even year on year just like in Germany. this will be when we really begin to compete again.

[KKiSaluteU]

Stop being so petty, that's not what I was insinuating in the slightest.

But if I was, I take it nothing will happen, until a second set of billionaire owners come and sweep us into the title race? And we should play happy until this happens?

Seriously, it's pointless trying to debate with some people on this forum, your blinded by a love for Dalglish.

It's fine, trust me, I love the man, but I'm happy to talk about the chance he may be going wrong at what he is doing currently.

What a petty and immature response that was, if you are happy for people to question why we spent 20m on Adam and could have got Yaya, fair enough. But I think that comparison is absurd. Get a calculator and work out why.

im not sure what you mena about that last part??
to me its quite obvious to compare the two or compare Henderson and Yaya for that matter...

[Aaronh]

im not sure what you mena about that last part??
to me its quite obvious to compare the two or compare Henderson and Yaya for that matter...

It's not though, firstly because Adam cost nowhere near the 20m mark, secondly Yaya Toure at the time was the Premier leagues highest earning individual, we never have, and I suspect very rarely will be paying wages of even half the levels Yaya reportedly earns.

[BearWithMe]

Stop being so petty, that's not what I was insinuating in the slightest.

But if I was, I take it nothing will happen, until a second set of billionaire owners come and sweep us into the title race? And we should play happy until this happens?

Seriously, it's pointless trying to debate with some people on this forum, your blinded by a love for Dalglish.

It's fine, trust me, I love the man, but I'm happy to talk about the chance he may be going wrong at what he is doing currently.

What a petty and immature response that was, if you are happy for people to question why we spent 20m on Adam and could have got Yaya, fair enough. But I think that comparison is absurd. Get a calculator and work out why.

i also think its absurd?

my point is City squad when mansour took over was not far off ours when Kenny took over. They spent a lot more than £100m and it took them 3 season to get into the top 4. It now looks like we will have to do something similar to compete. thats my comparison

[Aaronh]

1. City had actually finished 9th when Mansour took over and had spent £47m on new players the previous season.

2. so if a bottomless pit of Money is the answer then how are we ever going to be able to compete??? FFPR will be in full swing in a few years, clubs will have to break even year on year just like in Germany. this will be when we really begin to compete again.

City's expectations under Mansour were lower than ours, we had the foundations to build on, City were a relegation yoyo club.

City's minimum expectations that year were not to gain champions league football, so the comparison is almost nil and void to begin with.

Anyway we shouldn't need to compare ourselves to other clubs, we should judge ourselves on our goals.

[redondemand]

i also think its absurd?

my point is City squad when mansour took over was not far off ours when Kenny took over. They spent a lot more than £100m and it took them 3 season to get into the top 4. It now looks like we will have to do something similar to compete. thats my comparison

city finished in the bottom half with around 46-50 points if memmory serves me correct and its still bad than our worse position,i havent got the stats though and if someone could back me on this it would be helpful

[KKiSaluteU]

It's not though, firstly because Adam cost nowhere near the 20m mark, secondly Yaya Toure at the time was the Premier leagues highest earning individual, we never have, and I suspect very rarely will be paying wages of even half the levels Yaya reportedly earns.

ok so if say a striker earns 1 mill a week you cant compare him to one that gets 200k ?? they do the same job or are supposed to atleast .. i thought that was the whole idea of the transfer deals ??

[Aaronh]

ok so if say a striker earns 1 mill a week you cant compare him to one that gets 200k ?? they do the same job or are supposed to atleast .. i thought that was the whole idea of the transfer deals ??

But you were speaking about how we bought the wrong players.

I agree we bought the wrong players, but YAYA and Aguero at the time were miles away from acheivable players in my opinion.

[redondemand]

city finished in the bottom half with around 46-50 points if memmory serves me correct and its still bad than our worse position,i havent got the stats though and if someone could back me on this it would be helpful

i did some research on the take over and it happened in 2008 season and in that season city finished 10th with 50 points

[BearWithMe]

City's expectations under Mansour were lower than ours, we had the foundations to build on, City were a relegation yoyo club.

City's minimum expectations that year were not to gain champions league football, so the comparison is almost nil and void to begin with.

Anyway we shouldn't need to compare ourselves to other clubs, we should judge ourselves on our goals.

this is what im saying, expectations are far to high at the minute.

City spent £170m in the same period that Liverpool has spent £100m... City Finished 9th and we finished 7th when bought out by current owners.

why are we expecting 4th? City spent £451m and took them 3 years trying to get into the top 4 when they were not much further behind us at the start in comparison. why should we demand 4th after one season and £100m spent?

thats my issue

[KKiSaluteU]

But you were speaking about how we bought the wrong players.

I agree we bought the wrong players, but YAYA and Aguero at the time were miles away from acheivable players in my opinion.

yes and im still talking about that.. the reaon i compare the players is bcoz of the op.. but other then that i still dont see anything wrong icomparing the players, i asked who you would rather spend 20 mill on yaya or adam.. carrol or aguero ..
wether theywere ahievable or not is not the issue here .. coz the only ones that REALLY knowsare the players themselves

[Thispilgrim]

Kenny has had a vast amount of money to spend, the club recouped some money in sales. Kenny has spoken about the great support he has had from the FSG. We have had a great cup win. But progress within the PL has be woeful. Kenny has no excuse, it's simple not good enough. As I have said time and time again, come the summer the owners must back Kenny to the hilt or sack him. This net spend argument does not hold water for me. He has been backed very very well.

[BearWithMe]

city finished in the bottom half with around 46-50 points if memmory serves me correct and its still bad than our worse position,i havent got the stats though and if someone could back me on this it would be helpful

City were bought half way through 08/09 seaon and this is how they finished

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/m...RENT_STANDINGS

it took them 3 season to get 4th

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/m...RENT_STANDINGS

and they spent roughly £400m under Mansour getting their (£450m if you include money thaksin shinawatra spent)

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/prem...transfers.html

[Aaronh]

this is what im saying, expectations are far to high at the minute.

City spent £170m in the same period that Liverpool has spent £100m... City Finished 9th and we finished 7th when bought out by current owners.

why are we expecting 4th? City spent £451m and took them 3 years trying to get into the top 4 when they were not much further behind us at the start in comparison. why should we demand 4th after one season and £100m spent?

thats my issue

Becuase we had only recently dropped out of fourth, the back end of last season we started building what everybody could see as an exciting project, picking up more points under Kenny than any team bar the eventual title winners, whilst playing amazing football and using another managers players. We finished ten points behind top four, despite what many beleived to be the worst start to a season we've ever witnessed.

We also invested heavily to bring in Kenny's wanted list, surely we should expect to get closer? No?

Man City may have spent more money, but they have progressed, we haven't this year.

[Aaronh]

City were bought half way through 08/09 seaon and this is how they finished

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/m...RENT_STANDINGS

it took them 3 season to get 4th

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/m...RENT_STANDINGS

and they spent roughly £400m under Mansour getting their (£450m if you include money thaksin shinawatra spent)

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/prem...transfers.html

But they finished tenth, they didn't have the foundations we had, we had to get rid of some dead wood yes, but none were particularly starters.

[Hamfield]

Just replace realism for blind optimism

Not really.

Out the signings of Bridge, Stuart Taylor, Barry, Santa Cruz, De Jong, Given, Stuart Taylor, Tevez, Adebayour, Toure, Lescott in the summer of 2009, only 5 of the 11 remain at the club.

It was not just about improving the first team, but the squad.

[Aaronh]

yes and im still talking about that.. the reaon i compare the players is bcoz of the op.. but other then that i still dont see anything wrong icomparing the players, i asked who you would rather spend 20 mill on yaya or adam.. carrol or aguero ..
wether theywere ahievable or not is not the issue here .. coz the only ones that REALLY knowsare the players themselves

I dissagree completely.

In my opinion we had 0% chance of signing Aguero instead of Carrol or Yaya instead of Henderson, but that's what forums are for, people have different views.

[BearWithMe]

Becuase we had only recently dropped out of fourth, the back end of last season we started building what everybody could see as an exciting project, picking up more points under Kenny than any team bar the eventual title winners, whilst playing amazing football and using another managers players. We finished ten points behind top four, despite what many beleived to be the worst start to a season we've ever witnessed.

We also invested heavily to bring in Kenny's wanted list, surely we should expect to get closer? No?

Man City may have spent more money, but they have progressed, we haven't this year.

firstly, what this season has pointed out is that we over achieved at the back end of last season, call it the honeymoon period or whatever. point is we only lost Merieles from then but added Henderson Adam Downing Enrique Coates, no question this is a stronger squad. obvioulsy we are not much closer to the top 4 and going of Chelseas and Citys blueprint to get their we will need to spend much much more.

also you you say 'we havent progressed this year' it took City 3 seasons and £400m though

[BearWithMe]

But they finished tenth, they didn't have the foundations we had, we had to get rid of some dead wood yes, but none were particularly starters.

and in Rafas Final season we finshed 6th, a whole 4 places higher! as I said we had a better squad than them but not by a lot. we lost Alonso Masch Arbeloa Torres as well dont forget, id like to see any manager in the world try and replace them with £100m

[Aaronh]

firstly, what this season has pointed out is that we over achieved at the back end of last season, call it the honeymoon period or whatever. point is we only lost Merieles from then but added Henderson Adam Downing Enrique Coates, no question this is a stronger squad. obvioulsy we are not much closer to the top 4 and going of Chelseas and Citys blueprint to get their we will need to spend much much more.

also you you say 'we havent progressed this year' it took City 3 seasons and £400m though

But they progressed on their way.

A honeymoon period might explain a good result after a takeover, but HALF a season of steam rolling most in our path cannot be described as a honey moon period surely?

[Aaronh]

and in Rafas Final season we finshed 6th, a whole 4 places higher! as I said we had a better squad than them but not by a lot. we lost Alonso Masch Arbeloa Torres as well dont forget, id like to see any manager in the world try and replace them with £100m

And Rafa was sacked, because our expectations were higher than that...

Based on last season, and money spent to improve last seasons beginning, fourth seemed a challenging, yet reachable target in my opinion, certainly not completely unrealistic.

[rederman]

firstly, what this season has pointed out is that we over achieved at the back end of last season, call it the honeymoon period or whatever. point is we only lost Merieles from then but added Henderson Adam Downing Enrique Coates, no question this is a stronger squad. obvioulsy we are not much closer to the top 4 and going of Chelseas and Citys blueprint to get their we will need to spend much much more.

also you you say 'we havent progressed this year' it took City 3 seasons and £400m though

When city splash out 30 millon they get the augeros and tevezs of this world.
We on the other hand get the carrols of this world.
They get silvas and nasris,we get the downings and hendersons.

[KKiSaluteU]

[/B]

When city splash out 30 millon they get the augeros and tevezs of this world.
We on the other hand get the carrols of this world.
They get silvas and nasris,we get the downings and hendersons.

EXCATLY my point ..

[#TheTruth]

firstly, what this season has pointed out is that we over achieved at the back end of last season, call it the honeymoon period or whatever. point is we only lost Merieles from then but added Henderson Adam Downing Enrique Coates, no question this is a stronger squad. obvioulsy we are not much closer to the top 4 and going of Chelseas and Citys blueprint to get their we will need to spend much much more.

also you you say 'we havent progressed this year' it took City 3 seasons and £400m though

The manager is to blame. Look at Newcastle, average manager, mixed with some top players and some average ones and they are higher than us in the league. How embarrassing.

No point saying look at City, they will get stronger every year while we mess about with average joes and a manager who belongs in the 80's.