What I believe is wrong

[Red182]

I don't believe facing up to issues, pointing out/discussing problems, whilst supporting and wanting the club and players to do there best, in any way shape or form makes you a bad supporter.

I think the club owners and fans need to be frank.

Reina - Going downhill
Carra - Past it, and has a negative affect on defense
Gerrard - Declining, Great servant, Legend but less and less affective at CM, and his feet do the talking as captain, we look like we lack a leader on the pitch, new players clearly need one vocally
Central midfield - Lacks creativity and class and depth
Wings - We still only have one winger, Downing (who is improving but..)
Strikers - We have no top quality finisher
Carroll - Not cutting it, but no point lessing, could make it, no service


Kenny - Legend, we need him to come in when he did, thank you. But ..
Tactics - Horrific, when have we played so poorly so constantly, it wasn't acceptable under Hodgson
Man Management - Maxi/Carroll treatment, persisting with players who play poor (adam/hendo) instead of youth
P.R - Is starting to hurt the club in press interviews , and its a part of football and needs to be done better.

Lack of ruthlessness - Be proud of history and your past , but move on when needed

Anfield - is a great place because of the great times there, yes its a unique stadium and I love it
but to move on we need bigger, we just went to newcastle who had 55k watching easy. Anfield will not be big enough or updated enough.
LFC need a new ground , that will ensure they can compete for the next fifty years and in that time new historic moments can be made.

Pass&Move - I'm sorry , heritage and history is one thing, but why are we the only club weighted down by a set way of suposidly playing football?
We have players, who simply cant play that style of football well. But it just hangs over our head. No amount of constant losing football is good football.
Only Maxi Suarez and Gerrard can really play that style. Yes there was a great era where we played great football, but other clubs play well and don't have a set type of play they are apparently suppose to do regardless of the players available. ...also , now it does not even mean anything, all football is pass & move, it is just hanging on to a phrase.

and lastly

Yeah these new signings haven't worked great, but our tactics are awful, but the new signings wont be going anywhere yet.
Its easyier and more pratical to see if 10+ players play better with a new manager, than get the current manager 10+ new players.
Our tactics and play has been poor and so has the explinations and man management shown so I dont believe we will move forward with Kenny.
Love him to bits and he always has a role here, I support him , but blind faith is ridiculous.

[LifeRedLife]

I don't believe facing up to issues, pointing out/discussing problems, whilst supporting and wanting the club and players to do there best, in any way shape or form makes you a bad supporter.

I think the club owners and fans need to be frank.

Reina - Going downhill
Carra - Past it, and has a negative affect on defense
Gerrard - Declining, Great servant, Legend but less and less affective at CM, and his feet do the talking as captain, we look like we lack a leader on the pitch, new players clearly need one vocally
Central midfield - Lacks creativity and class and depth
Wings - We still only have one winger, Downing (who is improving but..)
Strikers - We have no top quality finisher
Carroll - Not cutting it, but no point lessing, could make it, no service


Kenny - Legend, we need him to come in when he did, thank you. But ..
Tactics - Horrific, when have we played so poorly so constantly, it wasn't acceptable under Hodgson
Man Management - Maxi/Carroll treatment, persisting with players who play poor (adam/hendo) instead of youth
P.R - Is starting to hurt the club in press interviews , and its a part of football and needs to be done better.

Lack of ruthlessness - Be proud of history and your past , but move on when needed

Anfield - is a great place because of the great times there, yes its a unique stadium and I love it
but to move on we need bigger, we just went to newcastle who had 55k watching easy. Anfield will not be big enough or updated enough.
LFC need a new ground , that will ensure they can compete for the next fifty years and in that time new historic moments can be made.

Pass&Move - I'm sorry , heritage and history is one thing, but why are we the only club weighted down by a set way of suposidly playing football?
We have players, who simply cant play that style of football well. But it just hangs over our head. No amount of constant losing football is good football.
Only Maxi Suarez and Gerrard can really play that style. Yes there was a great era where we played great football, but other clubs play well and don't have a set type of play they are apparently suppose to do regardless of the players available. ...also , now it does not even mean anything, all football is pass & move, it is just hanging on to a phrase.

and lastly

Yeah these new signings haven't worked great, but our tactics are awful, but the new signings wont be going anywhere yet.
Its easyier and more pratical to see if 10+ players play better with a new manager, than get the current manager 10+ new players.
Our tactics and play has been poor and so has the explinations and man management shown so I dont believe we will move forward with Kenny.
Love him to bits and he always has a role here, I support him , but blind faith is ridiculous.

Great Post!!! Couldn't really agreed more with you to the very last bit.

[gaelkamil]

now get ready to be bombarded with nasty post replies and name callings such as traitor, fair weathered fan etc etc by the so called loyal fans of LFC...

tbh, there is little to no truth, frankness, open-mindedness in this forum...only blind loyalty and blind faith...

[Sneets]

The OP sums it up well.

[bagaante]

I don't believe facing up to issues, pointing out/discussing problems, whilst supporting and wanting the club and players to do there best, in any way shape or form makes you a bad supporter.

I think the club owners and fans need to be frank.

Reina - Going downhill
Carra - Past it, and has a negative affect on defense
Gerrard - Declining, Great servant, Legend but less and less affective at CM, and his feet do the talking as captain, we look like we lack a leader on the pitch, new players clearly need one vocally
Central midfield - Lacks creativity and class and depth
Wings - We still only have one winger, Downing (who is improving but..)
Strikers - We have no top quality finisher
Carroll - Not cutting it, but no point lessing, could make it, no service


Kenny - Legend, we need him to come in when he did, thank you. But ..
Tactics - Horrific, when have we played so poorly so constantly, it wasn't acceptable under Hodgson
Man Management - Maxi/Carroll treatment, persisting with players who play poor (adam/hendo) instead of youth
P.R - Is starting to hurt the club in press interviews , and its a part of football and needs to be done better.

Lack of ruthlessness - Be proud of history and your past , but move on when needed

Anfield - is a great place because of the great times there, yes its a unique stadium and I love it
but to move on we need bigger, we just went to newcastle who had 55k watching easy. Anfield will not be big enough or updated enough.
LFC need a new ground , that will ensure they can compete for the next fifty years and in that time new historic moments can be made.

Pass&Move - I'm sorry , heritage and history is one thing, but why are we the only club weighted down by a set way of suposidly playing football?
We have players, who simply cant play that style of football well. But it just hangs over our head. No amount of constant losing football is good football.
Only Maxi Suarez and Gerrard can really play that style. Yes there was a great era where we played great football, but other clubs play well and don't have a set type of play they are apparently suppose to do regardless of the players available. ...also , now it does not even mean anything, all football is pass & move, it is just hanging on to a phrase.

and lastly

Yeah these new signings haven't worked great, but our tactics are awful, but the new signings wont be going anywhere yet.
Its easyier and more pratical to see if 10+ players play better with a new manager, than get the current manager 10+ new players.
Our tactics and play has been poor and so has the explinations and man management shown so I dont believe we will move forward with Kenny.
Love him to bits and he always has a role here, I support him , but blind faith is ridiculous.

This is the best post I've read in a while, very astute ,sums things up perfectly

[Thespian]

I think you are forgetting a major issue the Luis / Evra incident.

This has to take a lot of blame for our troubles this season.

There's no point going into it again but IMO the Suarez matter is Suarez's fault regardless of what actually happened and I don't blame Kenny for any of it. Suarez and the people advising Kenny yes.

It automatically put the club on the defensive. Then brash statements encouraged a siege like mentality and throughout the season, everyone at LFC fans included have been conditioned to believe it is us against the world. I also believe it has knocked Kenny's confidence..

I believe the majority of our current playing staff have used this incident and the subsequent backlash to hide behind and excuse their rubbish performances.

Most of our players have been performing well below their own standards and I can only put it down to this incident and a p*** poor mentality.

Since the incident LFC have been hiding behind a massive amount of similar defeatist excuses, these excuses have spilt out onto the football pitch and into the body language of the team.
It has got right on my teats!!!!

"It's not our fault."
"We've been unlucky"
"Everyone hates us"
"We created loads of chances"
"We hit the bar"
"We hit the post"
"The Ref cost us the game"
"It's just not our day"
"The players are tired!"
"We are being persecuted"
"It's so unfair!!"

Basically the playing staff don't care that they have been so terrible because at the end of the day it's someone elses fault...

[Japlin]

I don't believe facing up to issues, pointing out/discussing problems, whilst supporting and wanting the club and players to do there best, in any way shape or form makes you a bad supporter.

I think the club owners and fans need to be frank.

Reina - Going downhill
Carra - Past it, and has a negative affect on defense
Gerrard - Declining, Great servant, Legend but less and less affective at CM, and his feet do the talking as captain, we look like we lack a leader on the pitch, new players clearly need one vocally
Central midfield - Lacks creativity and class and depth
Wings - We still only have one winger, Downing (who is improving but..)
Strikers - We have no top quality finisher
Carroll - Not cutting it, but no point lessing, could make it, no service


Kenny - Legend, we need him to come in when he did, thank you. But ..
Tactics - Horrific, when have we played so poorly so constantly, it wasn't acceptable under Hodgson
Man Management - Maxi/Carroll treatment, persisting with players who play poor (adam/hendo) instead of youth
P.R - Is starting to hurt the club in press interviews , and its a part of football and needs to be done better.

Lack of ruthlessness - Be proud of history and your past , but move on when needed

Anfield - is a great place because of the great times there, yes its a unique stadium and I love it
but to move on we need bigger, we just went to newcastle who had 55k watching easy. Anfield will not be big enough or updated enough.
LFC need a new ground , that will ensure they can compete for the next fifty years and in that time new historic moments can be made.

Pass&Move - I'm sorry , heritage and history is one thing, but why are we the only club weighted down by a set way of suposidly playing football?
We have players, who simply cant play that style of football well. But it just hangs over our head. No amount of constant losing football is good football.
Only Maxi Suarez and Gerrard can really play that style. Yes there was a great era where we played great football, but other clubs play well and don't have a set type of play they are apparently suppose to do regardless of the players available. ...also , now it does not even mean anything, all football is pass & move, it is just hanging on to a phrase.

and lastly

Yeah these new signings haven't worked great, but our tactics are awful, but the new signings wont be going anywhere yet.
Its easyier and more pratical to see if 10+ players play better with a new manager, than get the current manager 10+ new players.
Our tactics and play has been poor and so has the explinations and man management shown so I dont believe we will move forward with Kenny.
Love him to bits and he always has a role here, I support him , but blind faith is ridiculous.

Good post.

[Scrams]

Think Kenny has more to offer and Gerrard cant play pass and move.

Otherwise its a fair enough OP/

[NileBread]

Decent OP cause it sums everything up well but i'd like to see some thoughts into looking forward and planning ahead on what we should be doing to turn all this around. Instead basically people are just giving their best impression of captain hindsight.

[Japlin]

Decent OP cause it sums everything up well but i'd like to see some thoughts into looking forward and planning ahead on what we should be doing to turn all this around. Instead basically people are just giving their best impression of captain hindsight.

I think the owners need to give Kenny one more season. Give him as much money as we can this summer, hopefully the recruitment staff will have learnt their lessons and can bring in some pace and quality to our side. I think we need a creative centre midfielder, a winger/wide player with a lot of pace, and a striker. Perhaps a centre back if we can get someone decent on the cheap, if not, give Coates more chances to show his potential.

If things are no better next season, or if we're still not even competing for 4th then I think Kenny's time will be up.

I would give some of the youth players a bit of playing time in the remainder of our home games, just 15-20mins here and there for now.

Regarding Carroll, I really don't know what to do. He's hardly improved since he's been here, and other than a few decent bits here and there, he's not bringing enough to the team to warrant a starting position. I guess we either take the hit and sell him for as much as possible in the summer or just keep playing him and hope he improves and starts scoring.


I'm not saying this is what we need to do, its just my opinion.

Oh and I think the most important thing is every single player needs a rocket up their arse! No passion, no drive and no energy at the moment.

[bagaante]

A couple of things that have been getting to me aside from our ability to finish chances or half chances is the lack of movement around the penalty area, and most of all why are we not flooding the opponents box at times when we are dominating, I've lost count of the times I've been screaming at players to make runs into the box ESP from midfield to help the front players , and when they do the positions they take up are rubbish, if you compare that to most top sides and really even mid table sides (what we are quickly becoming) its sad.
Recently I've had a few discussions with posters on here about how good our attacking play is, I've always said we are good at times but nowhere near as good as we were under rafa nevermind teams of the past, our passing is pretty sometimes , we get into decent positions, but then we lack bravery (commiting players)quality (getting killer balls in to the penalty area) and when we do it's more in hope than expectation.
When kenny came back I wondered tactically if he could cut it, like it or not football had evolved a hell of a lot since we were last winning things, players are much fitter (twice the distance covered on average) and better trained tactically , that said the old rule still applies, if you get the ball into the net it's a goal no matter how you do it (sadly we havnt even managed to do that nowhere near enough)
I will always love kenny, he will always be a god to me, regardless of how this ends, but it's hard to argue that the writing in the wall is becoming more apparent, no matter if we do win the fa cup
There's more that's irked me, corner delivery as woeful as ever, (no point in buying Adam , has proven he's a squad player at best and perhaps can't handle a big club mentality), sick of Enrique starting to get into good areas and then being to scared to go past people and instead twisting backwards (surprised he hasn't been tackled more as its so predictable now what he will do ), our central midfield lacks flair and creativity, gerrard is lost he either needs to be used as the maestro or as the attacking midfielder but can't be expected to keep carrying the club like he always has (our best player of all time IMHO)
I could go on, there's been more negatives than positives this season for sure

[NileBread]

I think the owners need to give Kenny one more season. Give him as much money as we can this summer, hopefully the recruitment staff will have learnt their lessons and can bring in some pace and quality to our side. I think we need a creative centre midfielder, a winger/wide player with a lot of pace, and a striker. Perhaps a centre back if we can get someone decent on the cheap, if not, give Coates more chances to show his potential.

If things are no better next season, or if we're still not even competing for 4th then I think Kenny's time will be up.

I would give some of the youth players a bit of playing time in the remainder of our home games, just 15-20mins here and there for now.

Regarding Carroll, I really don't know what to do. He's hardly improved since he's been here, and other than a few decent bits here and there, he's not bringing enough to the team to warrant a starting position. I guess we either take the hit and sell him for as much as possible in the summer or just keep playing him and hope he improves and starts scoring.


I'm not saying this is what we need to do, its just my opinion.

Oh and I think the most important thing is every single player needs a rocket up their arse! No passion, no drive and no energy at the moment.

Yes i agree with most of that but my problem is that this has been our general plan for a long time now. Might be time for some fresh thinking within the club. Not necessarily at manager level though. Maybe now scouts, coaches, ideas, directors of football, staff with ideas, creative people. Thats my general gut feeling. I just feel like there's a rot deep down in our club right now and it needs to be flushed out and freshened up.

[I-SEE-red-PEOPLE]

Until the end of the season I'd play gerrard on the right, he's effective there and our best crosser of the ball. Most of our most threatening play has been from gerrard whipping in a cross from deep infield he knows when the opportunities on, not like downing who believes his sole purpose is to only cross from as close to the corner flag as possible.

I'd start carrol every game we have nothing to lose on that front, I'd also play sterling if only for the fact he's quick, we have the slowest most lethargic attack in football. You see how quickly a team can counter against us and then see us labour forward looking clueless it's largely because we are insanely slow. **** poor signings in type of player and quality and as soon as someone at this club has the common sense to realize we need pace in our forward line the better.

[TheJerrick]

I don't believe facing up to issues, pointing out/discussing problems, whilst supporting and wanting the club and players to do there best, in any way shape or form makes you a bad supporter.

I think the club owners and fans need to be frank.

Reina - Going downhill
Carra - Past it, and has a negative affect on defense
Gerrard - Declining, Great servant, Legend but less and less affective at CM, and his feet do the talking as captain, we look like we lack a leader on the pitch, new players clearly need one vocally
Central midfield - Lacks creativity and class and depth
Wings - We still only have one winger, Downing (who is improving but..)
Strikers - We have no top quality finisher
Carroll - Not cutting it, but no point lessing, could make it, no service


Kenny - Legend, we need him to come in when he did, thank you. But ..
Tactics - Horrific, when have we played so poorly so constantly, it wasn't acceptable under Hodgson
Man Management - Maxi/Carroll treatment, persisting with players who play poor (adam/hendo) instead of youth
P.R - Is starting to hurt the club in press interviews , and its a part of football and needs to be done better.

Lack of ruthlessness - Be proud of history and your past , but move on when needed

Anfield - is a great place because of the great times there, yes its a unique stadium and I love it
but to move on we need bigger, we just went to newcastle who had 55k watching easy. Anfield will not be big enough or updated enough.
LFC need a new ground , that will ensure they can compete for the next fifty years and in that time new historic moments can be made.

Pass&Move - I'm sorry , heritage and history is one thing, but why are we the only club weighted down by a set way of suposidly playing football?
We have players, who simply cant play that style of football well. But it just hangs over our head. No amount of constant losing football is good football.
Only Maxi Suarez and Gerrard can really play that style. Yes there was a great era where we played great football, but other clubs play well and don't have a set type of play they are apparently suppose to do regardless of the players available. ...also , now it does not even mean anything, all football is pass & move, it is just hanging on to a phrase.

and lastly

Yeah these new signings haven't worked great, but our tactics are awful, but the new signings wont be going anywhere yet.
Its easyier and more pratical to see if 10+ players play better with a new manager, than get the current manager 10+ new players.
Our tactics and play has been poor and so has the explinations and man management shown so I dont believe we will move forward with Kenny.
Love him to bits and he always has a role here, I support him , but blind faith is ridiculous.

Congrats on one of the better and thoughtful posts written here for a while. I love Kenny too and hate seeing his legend tarnished in any way. I don't think it is his fault, though I am starting to feel that he is a 1980s manager stuck in the 2000 and teens. If he did go, I would want him still involved in the club as a mentor. I agree with you about the players. I am really worried about things at the moment.

[Chickenliver]

I don't believe facing up to issues, pointing out/discussing problems, whilst supporting and wanting the club and players to do there best, in any way shape or form makes you a bad supporter.

I think the club owners and fans need to be frank.

Reina - Going downhill
Carra - Past it, and has a negative affect on defense
Gerrard - Declining, Great servant, Legend but less and less affective at CM, and his feet do the talking as captain, we look like we lack a leader on the pitch, new players clearly need one vocally
Central midfield - Lacks creativity and class and depth
Wings - We still only have one winger, Downing (who is improving but..)
Strikers - We have no top quality finisher
Carroll - Not cutting it, but no point lessing, could make it, no service


Kenny - Legend, we need him to come in when he did, thank you. But ..
Tactics - Horrific, when have we played so poorly so constantly, it wasn't acceptable under Hodgson
Man Management - Maxi/Carroll treatment, persisting with players who play poor (adam/hendo) instead of youth
P.R - Is starting to hurt the club in press interviews , and its a part of football and needs to be done better.

Lack of ruthlessness - Be proud of history and your past , but move on when needed

Anfield - is a great place because of the great times there, yes its a unique stadium and I love it
but to move on we need bigger, we just went to newcastle who had 55k watching easy. Anfield will not be big enough or updated enough.
LFC need a new ground , that will ensure they can compete for the next fifty years and in that time new historic moments can be made.

Pass&Move - I'm sorry , heritage and history is one thing, but why are we the only club weighted down by a set way of suposidly playing football?
We have players, who simply cant play that style of football well. But it just hangs over our head. No amount of constant losing football is good football.
Only Maxi Suarez and Gerrard can really play that style. Yes there was a great era where we played great football, but other clubs play well and don't have a set type of play they are apparently suppose to do regardless of the players available. ...also , now it does not even mean anything, all football is pass & move, it is just hanging on to a phrase.

and lastly

Yeah these new signings haven't worked great, but our tactics are awful, but the new signings wont be going anywhere yet.
Its easyier and more pratical to see if 10+ players play better with a new manager, than get the current manager 10+ new players.
Our tactics and play has been poor and so has the explinations and man management shown so I dont believe we will move forward with Kenny.
Love him to bits and he always has a role here, I support him , but blind faith is ridiculous.

I just think we need more Spanish players.

[johnj147]

good post but what is the answer?

[Seanosdelgardo]

I don't believe facing up to issues, pointing out/discussing problems, whilst supporting and wanting the club and players to do there best, in any way shape or form makes you a bad supporter.

I think the club owners and fans need to be frank.

Reina - Going downhill
Carra - Past it, and has a negative affect on defense
Gerrard - Declining, Great servant, Legend but less and less affective at CM, and his feet do the talking as captain, we look like we lack a leader on the pitch, new players clearly need one vocally
Central midfield - Lacks creativity and class and depth
Wings - We still only have one winger, Downing (who is improving but..)
Strikers - We have no top quality finisher
Carroll - Not cutting it, but no point lessing, could make it, no service


Kenny - Legend, we need him to come in when he did, thank you. But ..
Tactics - Horrific, when have we played so poorly so constantly, it wasn't acceptable under Hodgson
Man Management - Maxi/Carroll treatment, persisting with players who play poor (adam/hendo) instead of youth
P.R - Is starting to hurt the club in press interviews , and its a part of football and needs to be done better.

Lack of ruthlessness - Be proud of history and your past , but move on when needed

Anfield - is a great place because of the great times there, yes its a unique stadium and I love it
but to move on we need bigger, we just went to newcastle who had 55k watching easy. Anfield will not be big enough or updated enough.
LFC need a new ground , that will ensure they can compete for the next fifty years and in that time new historic moments can be made.

Pass&Move - I'm sorry , heritage and history is one thing, but why are we the only club weighted down by a set way of suposidly playing football?
We have players, who simply cant play that style of football well. But it just hangs over our head. No amount of constant losing football is good football.
Only Maxi Suarez and Gerrard can really play that style. Yes there was a great era where we played great football, but other clubs play well and don't have a set type of play they are apparently suppose to do regardless of the players available. ...also , now it does not even mean anything, all football is pass & move, it is just hanging on to a phrase.

and lastly

Yeah these new signings haven't worked great, but our tactics are awful, but the new signings wont be going anywhere yet.
Its easyier and more pratical to see if 10+ players play better with a new manager, than get the current manager 10+ new players.
Our tactics and play has been poor and so has the explinations and man management shown so I dont believe we will move forward with Kenny.
Love him to bits and he always has a role here, I support him , but blind faith is ridiculous.

Reina needs a kick up the arse. I'd drop him for Doni for a while and see if that does the trick. He's too young to be "going down hill"
Carra - Legs have gone.
Gerrard - SHOULD NOT be playing central midfield. Play him off a striker and you'll see glimpses of the real Gerrard. Until then expect to carry on seeing the nomark displays he's been producing.
Central midfield indeed needs a playmaker in the Modric Style. Affelay would be my vote and wouldn't cost the earth either.
Wings - Right winger still needed, and has been needed since Shaggy left.
Strikers - selling Torres was the worst bit of business we've done in years....£50m or not. We don't have a clinical finisher.
Carroll - sorry I don't buy the no service thing. Needs to get his arse in the box and stop ******* around outside the 18 yard line letting midfielders run past him. He wont make it for me.

I don't buy your tactics argument either. Defensively solid up until we lost Johnson and Agger (see the Carra no legs argument), and untl recently we've been creating quite a few chances. The problem, is a finisher, and the fact we dont have one. Didnt see Cisse do much for them yesterday, right up until it counted and he buried it, twice. Reminds me of Torres, frequentlyt did cack all, all game, then scored a hat trick. Its that ruthlessness up front we miss.

Man management - we dont know what the score is with Maxi, as thats an enigma, but I'm not having that the players are treated "unfairly". Thats just rubbish.

[Japlin]

Reina needs a kick up the arse. I'd drop him for Doni for a while and see if that does the trick. He's too young to be "going down hill"
Carra - Legs have gone.
Gerrard - SHOULD NOT be playing central midfield. Play him off a striker and you'll see glimpses of the real Gerrard. Until then expect to carry on seeing the nomark displays he's been producing.
Central midfield indeed needs a playmaker in the Modric Style. Affelay would be my vote and wouldn't cost the earth either.
Wings - Right winger still needed, and has been needed since Shaggy left.
Strikers - selling Torres was the worst bit of business we've done in years....£50m or not. We don't have a clinical finisher.
Carroll - sorry I don't buy the no service thing. Needs to get his arse in the box and stop ******* around outside the 18 yard line letting midfielders run past him. He wont make it for me.

I don't buy your tactics argument either. Defensively solid up until we lost Johnson and Agger (see the Carra no legs argument), and untl recently we've been creating quite a few chances. The problem, is a finisher, and the fact we dont have one. Didnt see Cisse do much for them yesterday, right up until it counted and he buried it, twice. Reminds me of Torres, frequentlyt did cack all, all game, then scored a hat trick. Its that ruthlessness up front we miss.

Man management - we dont know what the score is with Maxi, as thats an enigma, but I'm not having that the players are treated "unfairly". Thats just rubbish.

The thing with Gerrard though is that our midfield isn't good enough at the moment for him to be playing further forward.

[TeenageMutantNinJaSkrtel]

What is wrong with the club at the minute is instant gratification with the players and especially with the fans.

When 4th went, the majority of players who have been here a while just gave up. Heads, confidence and performances dropped. Like it was the same old story we have had for 3 seasons.

Many fans jumped on the sack Kenny bandwagon. Yes Kenny has made some mistakes this season, but come on, do you all believe in this thinly veiled 'pot Kenny thread', and the many others that have popped up, that a change of manager is really going to turn things around? No it is not. If anything it is going to make things worse.

Yes, we may get an initial up turn in fortunes, but I guarantee, this time next season, we will still be in the same position, and the same fans calling for Kenny's head now will be calling for the removal of the new guy.

Dalglish wins a trophy in his first full season, with the possibility of a 2nd and gets sacked. Do you really want us to be the next Chelsea with the owners constantly pumping millions and millions of pounds into the playing staff, only to sack the manager every season?

Is it any coincidence, that over the last three season's, we have fallen short of CL. Rafa couldn't keep us in the top 4 with the core of the current squad of players, Roy couldn't even get us out of the bottom half, and Kenny turned it completely around and gave us the respectability of a top 6 finish. He also won a trophy for the first time in 6 years.

What we need now, more than ever is stability. Our rebuilding is an ongoing project, and like with all projects, be it starting a business, refurbishing a house or starting a family, anything, there are always going to be times when things don't go your way.

What you don't do, is make panic decisions.

Having said that, the OP did hit the nail on the head with a few points.

Reina - Going downhill
Carra - Past it, and has a negative affect on defense
Gerrard - Declining, Great servant, Legend but less and less affective at CM, and his feet do the talking as captain, we look like we lack a leader on the pitch, new players clearly need one vocally
Central midfield - Lacks creativity and class and depth
Wings - We still only have one winger, Downing (who is improving but..)
Strikers - We have no top quality finisher
Carroll - Not cutting it, but no point lessing, could make it, no service

Reina. He has been poor this season by his standards. Maybe this upcoming ban will do him good. Hopefully Doni will show that Pepe is no longer a nailed on starter.

Carra. Lifelong servant, but does our slump in form coincide with the return to first team action? Maybe the end of the season would be a good time to retire. The way I see it, he is doing more harm than good to the team. Skrtel is a different player when paired with Carra. He leads the defence when paired with Agger or even Coates, but with Jamie, he is just shouted at and encouraged to hoof.

Gerrard. Aside from the Everton game, we have actually played better and gained more points when he was out injured. I think the problem is that when he is on the pitch, all the other players seem to think EVERYTHING HAS to go through him, which makes us one sided and predictable. And if the rest of the team try to play normally, he seems to sulk.

Central midfield. Any team in the world would miss Lucas. Adam was a different player alongside him. Whilst Jay has tried his hardest as his back-up, we could do better. Henderson and Shelvey are players for the future in my opinion, but because of the long term injury, plus following niggles, Henderson especially has been thrown in at the deep end. They will both be a year older next season and a year wiser.

Wings. Kuyt, Bellers and Maxi have to be moved on next season to give youth or new a chance, or to get some talent in. If they are in the squad, because of their reputations, its must just be tooo tempting to play them.

Strikers. Painfully obvious from the start of the season will were struggling to find the net. It has to be addressed.

If we would have taken just a fraction of our chances earlier on in the season, confidence would have be high and who knows how the season would have panned out, unfortunately we didn't so confidence is rock bottom. Evident in Downing. Must be proper frustrating for him, supplying the bullets with nobody there to pull the trigger.

Pass and move. It's a confidence thing. The players confidence is gone (mainly due to not having any end product). When they are happy and confident, they are actually really good at it.

Stadium. I think FSG fully understand that it is a vital component to the success of their investment.

[Seanosdelgardo]

The thing with Gerrard though is that our midfield isn't good enough at the moment for him to be playing further forward.

You say that, but I dont see Gerrard pulling up tree's in CM at the moment. Play Henderson and Spearing while Lucas is out, and push Gerrard up behind Suarez.

[12fatboyred]

I don't believe facing up to issues, pointing out/discussing problems, whilst supporting and wanting the club and players to do there best, in any way shape or form makes you a bad supporter.

I think the club owners and fans need to be frank.

Reina - Going downhill
Carra - Past it, and has a negative affect on defense
Gerrard - Declining, Great servant, Legend but less and less affective at CM, and his feet do the talking as captain, we look like we lack a leader on the pitch, new players clearly need one vocally
Central midfield - Lacks creativity and class and depth
Wings - We still only have one winger, Downing (who is improving but..)
Strikers - We have no top quality finisher
Carroll - Not cutting it, but no point lessing, could make it, no service


Kenny - Legend, we need him to come in when he did, thank you. But ..
Tactics - Horrific, when have we played so poorly so constantly, it wasn't acceptable under Hodgson
Man Management - Maxi/Carroll treatment, persisting with players who play poor (adam/hendo) instead of youth
P.R - Is starting to hurt the club in press interviews , and its a part of football and needs to be done better.

Lack of ruthlessness - Be proud of history and your past , but move on when needed

Anfield - is a great place because of the great times there, yes its a unique stadium and I love it
but to move on we need bigger, we just went to newcastle who had 55k watching easy. Anfield will not be big enough or updated enough.
LFC need a new ground , that will ensure they can compete for the next fifty years and in that time new historic moments can be made.

Pass&Move - I'm sorry , heritage and history is one thing, but why are we the only club weighted down by a set way of suposidly playing football?
We have players, who simply cant play that style of football well. But it just hangs over our head. No amount of constant losing football is good football.
Only Maxi Suarez and Gerrard can really play that style. Yes there was a great era where we played great football, but other clubs play well and don't have a set type of play they are apparently suppose to do regardless of the players available. ...also , now it does not even mean anything, all football is pass & move, it is just hanging on to a phrase.

and lastly

Yeah these new signings haven't worked great, but our tactics are awful, but the new signings wont be going anywhere yet.
Its easyier and more pratical to see if 10+ players play better with a new manager, than get the current manager 10+ new players.
Our tactics and play has been poor and so has the explinations and man management shown so I dont believe we will move forward with Kenny.
Love him to bits and he always has a role here, I support him , but blind faith is ridiculous.

Any Liverpool fan could have told Dalglish what was missing for the last six years or so,

1) not had very good first choice wingers,

2) no adequate backup for both wings

3) we never replaced Alonso

4) we needed a long-term solution to Gerrard

5) we had no replacement for Carragher

6) need a left back

7) we didn't have a fourth choice backup central defender of adequate quality

8) didn't have third choice and fourth choice strikers as backup

9) needed to find another young defensive midfielder i.e. like how we brought Sissoko how we mould him and then Lucas was next.


So far if Dalglish is only got 2 maybe 3 out of that list correct, so if Liverpool fans can see what is needed why can't a manager who should be up there in English league as one of the best managers

[ChuckNorwich]

The thing with Gerrard though is that our midfield isn't good enough at the moment for him to be playing further forward.

Henderson and spearing can hold their own in Midfield.

Shelvey is a prospect and had a few good moments yesterday, but I think the game was to big for him yesterday.

I personally think we must select a team for the remaining fixtures and stick with that team till the end of the season, depending on players returning from injury of course, and here and there bleed the youth. That's the only way I think we can instill confidence and a sense of believe

[Stevieq3]

I think alot of the problem is a sheer lack of effort from our players, the number of times ive seen Suarez given the ball then players just stood watching him, in the hope he will do something magical, he rarely has somebody in support to pass to, so he loses us possession.

[BILLBOBKEN]

Good post written with respect, but i disagree with a lot of it, i think this awful run is quite easy to explain really, for me it all comes down to the arsenal game, if we'd of got what we deserved from that which was 3 points then i think we would of seen a different side to the one we've been watching since, for me its been in the players minds that fourth was over from that point and their hearts just havn't been in it. Look at the two wins since, the derby, a game were you have to be commited and stoke in the cup another were anything other than full commitment and your out, the rest of the games they have just been going through the motions, there are two games now before the semi and players are playing for places i expect us to win both and hopefully the semi too. All in all its been an topsy turvy season but with a couple of additions and everyone backing kenny i think we'll surprise a few next season

[Raphaelthe2nd]

The main problem for me has been no continuity, a lot of that enforced, some of it through over rotating which we should not have been doing and didn't need to do as we were only in domestic competitions

[AAliya]

great post mate...

another stat under Kenny....Liverpool have gone behind in 14 games this season and lost 78.6% of those games. Only Bolton, Swansea and West Bromwich have a more unimpressive percentage after falling behind in games

[TheFanView]

Great Post!!! Couldn't really agreed more with you to the very last bit.

This is the best post I've read in a while, very astute ,sums things up perfectly

Good post.

Congrats on one of the better and thoughtful posts written here for a while. I love Kenny too and hate seeing his legend tarnished in any way. I don't think it is his fault, though I am starting to feel that he is a 1980s manager stuck in the 2000 and teens. If he did go, I would want him still involved in the club as a mentor. I agree with you about the players. I am really worried about things at the moment.

I just think we need more Spanish players.

.
.
.
And the rest of you . . .


Thanks for quoting the OP. I missed it the first, second, third, fourth and fifth time.

[Raphaelthe2nd]

Some of this is fair enough if your of that persuasion, but a lot of it I don't agree with at all, I've inserted my thought in bold

I don't believe facing up to issues, pointing out/discussing problems, whilst supporting and wanting the club and players to do there best, in any way shape or form makes you a bad supporter.

I think the club owners and fans need to be frank. You need to differentiate here, big difference between fans and supporters, they're not the same thing

Reina - Going downhill Had more errors this season but also has 3rd or 4th best record in the league, a season dip at Reina's age, still young for a keeper does not gie an indication he is going downhill, everyone lauds Alonso for his time at the club, he only had one good season
Carra - Past it, and has a negative affect on defense Agreed sentiment definitely is getting in the way of progress in his case
Gerrard - Declining, Great servant, Legend but less and less affective at CM, and his feet do the talking as captain, we look like we lack a leader on the pitch, new players clearly need one vocally Gerrard's struggling to regain his best form in a new position and without Lucas alonside him, I'm not writing our captain off after such a long time out
Central midfield - Lacks creativity and class and depth It does severely lack depth, again, our second string aren't good enough to start as many games as they have. I have to reserve judgement on our first choice pairing in the current side, as we haven't seen it yet.
Wings - We still only have one winger, Downing (who is improving but..) Agree, I think that will be adresses in the summer and Sterling will be regularly in the 18 next term also, I think Downing's been a quality addition needs better support from the middle and up top though
Strikers - We have no top quality finisher Agree, I think this will also be addressed in the summer
Carroll - Not cutting it, but no point lessing, could make it, no service We did try for other players, Andy's slow progress has been very frustrating, he is learning to play as part of a pass and move set up though, it's slow progress, but he'll get there. The service has been there Andy just hasn't been up to speed with his reading of the game or getting in the box quick enough or had good enough movement to get in there and apply the finish, he'll get better when the new lad takes the pressure off him and he has to fight for his place.


Kenny - Legend, we need him to come in when he did, thank you. But ..
Tactics - Horrific, when have we played so poorly so constantly, it wasn't acceptable under Hodgson
Man Management - Maxi/Carroll treatment, persisting with players who play poor (adam/hendo) instead of youth
P.R - Is starting to hurt the club in press interviews , and its a part of football and needs to be done better.

Over rotating is my only criticism of Kenny, people talk about them and us in relation to the Suarez episode, but it's been that way for as long as I can remember. The club handling of it was poor, not Kenny's specifically, it is actually an offence under UK law for our media to portray SUarez as they did, if the club had a proper PR and legal department, which they should, they should have nipped this whole thing in the bud, what the Murdoch empire did to our club was disgraceful and illegal.

Lack of ruthlessness - Be proud of history and your past , but move on when needed People said the same about benitez Keeping our traditions, like supporting the manager is something we need to hold onto, it's astonishing how many people haven't learnt the very recent lesson

Anfield - is a great place because of the great times there, yes its a unique stadium and I love it
but to move on we need bigger, we just went to newcastle who had 55k watching easy. Anfield will not be big enough or updated enough.
LFC need a new ground , that will ensure they can compete for the next fifty years and in that time new historic moments can be made.

Pass&Move - I'm sorry , heritage and history is one thing, but why are we the only club weighted down by a set way of suposidly playing football?
We have players, who simply cant play that style of football well. But it just hangs over our head. No amount of constant losing football is good football.
Only Maxi Suarez and Gerrard can really play that style. Yes there was a great era where we played great football, but other clubs play well and don't have a set type of play they are apparently suppose to do regardless of the players available. ...also , now it does not even mean anything, all football is pass & move, it is just hanging on to a phrase. All the players we have can play that game and play it very well, as you have pointed out yourself at the start of the post, it's our finishing the moves off that has been the problem, no out and out goal scorer

and lastly

Yeah these new signings haven't worked great, but our tactics are awful, but the new signings wont be going anywhere yet.
Its easyier and more pratical to see if 10+ players play better with a new manager, than get the current manager 10+ new players.
Our tactics and play has been poor and so has the explinations and man management shown so I dont believe we will move forward with Kenny.
Love him to bits and he always has a role here, I support him , but blind faith is ridiculous. Nothing wrong with our tactics or approach, lack of strength in depth in centre mid and lack of continuity with so many new players has been our problem all season

Actually, when I read through it, your post isn't very well thought out and reasoned at all

[Ganymede]

I don't believe facing up to issues, pointing out/discussing problems, whilst supporting and wanting the club and players to do there best, in any way shape or form makes you a bad supporter.

I think the club owners and fans need to be frank.

Reina - Going downhill
Carra - Past it, and has a negative affect on defense
Gerrard - Declining, Great servant, Legend but less and less affective at CM, and his feet do the talking as captain, we look like we lack a leader on the pitch, new players clearly need one vocally
Central midfield - Lacks creativity and class and depth
Wings - We still only have one winger, Downing (who is improving but..)
Strikers - We have no top quality finisher
Carroll - Not cutting it, but no point lessing, could make it, no service


Kenny - Legend, we need him to come in when he did, thank you. But ..
Tactics - Horrific, when have we played so poorly so constantly, it wasn't acceptable under Hodgson
Man Management - Maxi/Carroll treatment, persisting with players who play poor (adam/hendo) instead of youth
P.R - Is starting to hurt the club in press interviews , and its a part of football and needs to be done better.

Lack of ruthlessness - Be proud of history and your past , but move on when needed

Anfield - is a great place because of the great times there, yes its a unique stadium and I love it
but to move on we need bigger, we just went to newcastle who had 55k watching easy. Anfield will not be big enough or updated enough.
LFC need a new ground , that will ensure they can compete for the next fifty years and in that time new historic moments can be made.

Pass&Move - I'm sorry , heritage and history is one thing, but why are we the only club weighted down by a set way of suposidly playing football?
We have players, who simply cant play that style of football well. But it just hangs over our head. No amount of constant losing football is good football.
Only Maxi Suarez and Gerrard can really play that style. Yes there was a great era where we played great football, but other clubs play well and don't have a set type of play they are apparently suppose to do regardless of the players available. ...also , now it does not even mean anything, all football is pass & move, it is just hanging on to a phrase.

and lastly

Yeah these new signings haven't worked great, but our tactics are awful, but the new signings wont be going anywhere yet.
Its easyier and more pratical to see if 10+ players play better with a new manager, than get the current manager 10+ new players.
Our tactics and play has been poor and so has the explinations and man management shown so I dont believe we will move forward with Kenny.
Love him to bits and he always has a role here, I support him , but blind faith is ridiculous.

I don't like blind faith either but Kenny isn't even through his first full season FFS.


This is for you TheFanView.

[ghyllred]

I think you are forgetting a major issue the Luis / Evra incident.

This has to take a lot of blame for our troubles this season.

There's no point going into it again but IMO the Suarez matter is Suarez's fault regardless of what actually happened and I don't blame Kenny for any of it. Suarez and the people advising Kenny yes.

It automatically put the club on the defensive. Then brash statements encouraged a siege like mentality and throughout the season, everyone at LFC fans included have been conditioned to believe it is us against the world. I also believe it has knocked Kenny's confidence..

I believe the majority of our current playing staff have used this incident and the subsequent backlash to hide behind and excuse their rubbish performances.

Most of our players have been performing well below their own standards and I can only put it down to this incident and a p*** poor mentality.

Since the incident LFC have been hiding behind a massive amount of similar defeatist excuses, these excuses have spilt out onto the football pitch and into the body language of the team.
It has got right on my teats!!!!

"It's not our fault."
"We've been unlucky"
"Everyone hates us"
"We created loads of chances"
"We hit the bar"
"We hit the post"
"The Ref cost us the game"
"It's just not our day"
"The players are tired!"
"We are being persecuted"
"It's so unfair!!"

Basically the playing staff don't care that they have been so terrible because at the end of the day it's someone elses fault...

Excellent post-tho try as i did, saying this back in Dec/jan-i was nearly lynched.
Liverpool supporters bar a few (and i count myself as one of the few) were blindly supporting Suarez partly cos Evra was a Man utd player-the t-shirts, kenny statements were all wrong. The board should have put someone forward to deal with the press as KD was out of his depth-he doesnt understand racism.eg when asked for comment after evra was booed at Anfield in cup match-he said-"I was booed when i was a player"

there was a siege mentality and if you didnt support suarez you were a traitor. I think to be honest the affair split the playing staff too and we may only hear that much later on after Suarez/Dlaglish have left.