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Thread: Alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to stand trial at Guantanamo Bay

  1. #1 Default Alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to stand trial at Guantanamo Bay 
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    They have been charged with terrorism, hijacking aircraft, conspiracy and murder in connection with the 11 September 2001 attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania that killed nearly 3,000 people in 2001.
    All could face the death penalty if convicted.
    The decision to move to trial in a military court is the latest chapter in a decade-long political and legal battle over handling detainees.
    One of the most contentious issues has been whether terrorism suspects like Mr Mohammed and his alleged co-conspirators should be tried in civilian courts as criminals or before military courts as enemy combatants.
    The trial will bring a deep examination of the events leading up to 9/11, the deadliest attack ever carried out on United States soil and one that propelled the country into a global war against al-Qaeda and its affiliates.
    The trial stands to be double-edged for President Barack Obama, who is running for a second term in November.
    It will remind voters about the killing of long-fugitive al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden last year, a highlight of his presidency.
    But it could also draw attention to his failure to close the Guantanamo Bay prison, which he had promised to do as a candidate in the 2008 election.
    The official overseeing the Guantanamo tribunals, retired Vice Admiral Bruce MacDonald, referred the case to a capital military commission on charges of terrorism, hijacking aircraft, conspiracy, murder in violation of the law of war, attacking civilians and other counts, the Pentagon said.
    The case is fraught with controversy. All five defendants were held in secret CIA prisons before being sent to Guantanamo in 2006.
    The CIA has acknowledged subjecting Mr Mohammed to a simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding during his interrogation, and other defendants have said they were abused.
    The tribunals, which have gone through several revisions, ban the use of evidence gained through coercion, but critics say the hearsay rules are broad enough to allow the introduction of second-hand information obtained through torture.
    11 years after the attack this comes to trial.

    9/11 was an event that impacted the entire world not just the US, I remember being in work that day (while in college) and watching it on a TV in the staff room, standing beside me a girl I worked with who broke down in tears as the first tower fell, it turned out that her uncle had recently taken a job for a company based in the World trade centre, he was one of the victims. I remember putting my arm around her trying to comfort her and thinking to myself, here we are in Dublin and the attack is in New York and this poor girl has lost someone very close to her.

    My cousin Michael, and his brother in law's Chris and Dan (All marines) were shipped from the states to a base in Germany and then off to Afghan and Later Iraq, all 3 went career, (sadly Dan developed leukaemia a year or so ago so he is no longer active) but Chris and Michael are. Michael's helicopter was shot down in the opening weeks of the conflict in Iraq and he suffered injuries but that didnt stop him going back to work and doing what he was trained to do.

    I've never fully agreed with the conflict in Afghan or Iraq, and me being me (as you all know) I'm never one to keep my opinions to myself, and I have had open discussions with them about the part they have played in the conflict and the number of innocent people who have been killed and the myth of WMD's. They have both answered the same way (perhaps its what they are told to say) "We didnt choose to go to Iraq or Afghan, we are soldiers, we follow orders, it doesnt matter if we agree with it but we have been asked to protect our country and if doing that means hunting down the suspects then thats what we'll do". I've always thought this a noble stance to take, even if I dont fully agree with it.

    These two do not speak for the US Military forces so please dont take it as that.

    I understand the hurt and anger many Americans feel over the events of 9/11, indeed as an Irishman I feel a degree of hurt and anger over the events of British rule in Ireland for so many years, but as we have seen the acts of a few do not consititute the beliefs of an entire nation.

    What I can not agree with though is the decision to have a military trial on US soil. There is no way these men can have an fair trial, there is always a small chance that these are the wrong people and even if they are not they still deserve a fair trial.

    Personally I feel they should face trial in The Hague.
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  2. #2  
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    Chop his head off and feed it to the sharks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by domino View Post
    Chop his head off and feed it to the sharks.
    I suppose thats one option.

    But do you honestly think its fair for him and others to face trial on US soil?

    Would it not send a better message to the entire world for him to face trial in the international court?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnTheRed View Post
    I suppose thats one option.

    But do you honestly think its fair for him and others to face trial on US soil?

    Would it not send a better message to the entire world for him to face trial in the international court?
    Fair?

    I couldnt give a flying **** tbh dude......... the "crime" happened on US soil....... against US civilians.......... why shouldnt it be held on US soil?

    If guilty I'd behead the **** and bury him facing west wrapped in bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mettatron View Post
    Fair?

    I couldnt give a flying **** tbh dude......... the "crime" happened on US soil....... against US civilians.......... why shouldnt it be held on US soil?

    If guilty I'd behead the **** and bury him facing west wrapped in bacon!
    I fully understand your stance on this, but do you not think that he is entitled to a fair unbiased trial?

    There are countless examples in america of trials being moved to different area's due to the defendant not being able to have a fair trial in a particular county/state.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnTheRed View Post
    I fully understand your stance on this, but do you not think that he is entitled to a fair unbiased trial?

    There are countless examples in america of trials being moved to different area's due to the defendant not being able to have a fair trial in a particular county/state.
    If he (and others) have a fair trial in a civilian court and are found guilty of all offences are you in favour of putting them to death?
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnTheRed View Post
    I fully understand your stance on this, but do you not think that he is entitled to a fair unbiased trial?

    There are countless examples in america of trials being moved to different area's due to the defendant not being able to have a fair trial in a particular county/state.
    Yes he is entitled to a fair trial........ at the same time, the familys of the victims are entitled to "see justice being done" and as mentioned in previous post the crime was commited on US soil....... if the case is heard on US soil then I really don't see how anyone could claim it was unfair.

    You want it done in the Hague?

    That useless lot still havnt sorted out all the idiots involved in the balkans genocide......... can't say I'd be very impressed if they got to reside over this case......... its **** all to do with them to be perfectly frank about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnTheRed View Post
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    11 years after the attack this comes to trial.

    9/11 was an event that impacted the entire world not just the US, I remember being in work that day (while in college) and watching it on a TV in the staff room, standing beside me a girl I worked with who broke down in tears as the first tower fell, it turned out that her uncle had recently taken a job for a company based in the World trade centre, he was one of the victims. I remember putting my arm around her trying to comfort her and thinking to myself, here we are in Dublin and the attack is in New York and this poor girl has lost someone very close to her.

    My cousin Michael, and his brother in law's Chris and Dan (All marines) were shipped from the states to a base in Germany and then off to Afghan and Later Iraq, all 3 went career, (sadly Dan developed leukaemia a year or so ago so he is no longer active) but Chris and Michael are. Michael's helicopter was shot down in the opening weeks of the conflict in Iraq and he suffered injuries but that didnt stop him going back to work and doing what he was trained to do.

    I've never fully agreed with the conflict in Afghan or Iraq, and me being me (as you all know) I'm never one to keep my opinions to myself, and I have had open discussions with them about the part they have played in the conflict and the number of innocent people who have been killed and the myth of WMD's. They have both answered the same way (perhaps its what they are told to say) "We didnt choose to go to Iraq or Afghan, we are soldiers, we follow orders, it doesnt matter if we agree with it but we have been asked to protect our country and if doing that means hunting down the suspects then thats what we'll do". I've always thought this a noble stance to take, even if I dont fully agree with it.

    These two do not speak for the US Military forces so please dont take it as that.

    I understand the hurt and anger many Americans feel over the events of 9/11, indeed as an Irishman I feel a degree of hurt and anger over the events of British rule in Ireland for so many years, but as we have seen the acts of a few do not consititute the beliefs of an entire nation.

    What I can not agree with though is the decision to have a military trial on US soil. There is no way these men can have an fair trial, there is always a small chance that these are the wrong people and even if they are not they still deserve a fair trial.

    Personally I feel they should face trial in The Hague.
    Depends if you actually believe that "foriegn" terrorists carried out the 9/11 attacks. Lot of evidence that they didnt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    Depends if you actually believe that "foriegn" terrorists carried out the 9/11 attacks. Lot of evidence that they didnt.
    Well all that evidence should be presented in court?

    Shame it wont be televised tbh...... would be interesting to see exactly what evidence is presented.
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    Quote Originally Posted by domino View Post
    If he (and others) have a fair trial in a civilian court and are found guilty of all offences are you in favour of putting them to death?
    I'm personally not in favour of the death penalty as I feel that it in some ways is a short cut for the offender. I'd much rather see them locked up on solitary confinement and left to rot over the years, I dont think they should get the quick option of death.

    But lets not turn this into a debate about the death penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mettatron View Post
    Yes he is entitled to a fair trial........ at the same time, the familys of the victims are entitled to "see justice being done" and as mentioned in previous post the crime was commited on US soil....... if the case is heard on US soil then I really don't see how anyone could claim it was unfair.

    You want it done in the Hague?

    That useless lot still havnt sorted out all the idiots involved in the balkans genocide......... can't say I'd be very impressed if they got to reside over this case......... its **** all to do with them to be perfectly frank about it.
    The Hague is the international court, if not there then it should be held somewhere else, independent. I just feel that too many questions and accusations of bias can be raised on an international level if it is held on US soil.

    I firmly believe that the families of the victims deserve the right to closure but not at the expense of integrity and allowing scope for questions to be raised (on an international level) regarding the way the trial was held.
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    If they are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt then the Americans should be having an open and transparent trial in a proper court of law.

    Evidence obtained through torture and then a Kangeroo Court in the base where they're tortured doesn't really seem like justice to me.

    However if they were found to be guilty in a proper court of law in a proper trial I would have no problem with the death penalty.
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    Build a Saw type torture chamber and make him along with several other scumbags suffer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnTheRed View Post
    I'm personally not in favour of the death penalty as I feel that it in some ways is a short cut for the offender. I'd much rather see them locked up on solitary confinement and left to rot over the years, I dont think they should get the quick option of death.

    But lets not turn this into a debate about the death penalty.
    Agree
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mettatron View Post
    Fair?

    I couldnt give a flying **** tbh dude......... the "crime" happened on US soil....... against US civilians.......... why shouldnt it be held on US soil?

    If guilty I'd behead the **** and bury him facing west wrapped in bacon!
    Take it easy. What he did was disgusting but America have killed more civilians then any other country or organization, saying stuff like that proves you're no better then them. We have a saying in sweden :"Clean your own porch". Which means that you should clean infront of your own house before saying other houses are dirty.
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    Liverdinner is online now Boot Room insider
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    Probably wasn't him anyway.
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    king-Carra is offline Academy prospect
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    Make them pay. Should be in America also.
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    Besides, if convicted, isn't the death penalty be the thing he wants now. As he would believe he would be dying as a martyr in jihad against the Great Satan. Wouldn't it be better for him to fade away quietly.
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    welshypool is offline Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    Probably wasn't him anyway.
    No it was the reptiles of course, and every other thick as **** conspiracy you can dream up

    There were depth charges at the base of the towers, no plane hit the pentagon....bla bla

    Anyways, back to real life and the trial......
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    Don Cumbrian is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shajan View Post
    Take it easy. What he did was disgusting but America have killed more civilians then any other country or organization.
    Have they balls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    Probably wasn't him anyway.
    Do you understand what the word 'probably' means?
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  21. #21  
    Yehez is online now Rating revolutionary
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    When was he caught and identified?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shajan View Post
    Take it easy. What he did was disgusting but America have killed more civilians then any other country or organization, saying stuff like that proves you're no better then them. We have a saying in sweden :"Clean your own porch". Which means that you should clean infront of your own house before saying other houses are dirty.
    You are trying to rationalize by blaming the US for other civilian deaths, which in itself is pretty disgusting .. maybe you should look at cleaning YOUR porch?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    Depends if you actually believe that "foriegn" terrorists carried out the 9/11 attacks. Lot of evidence that they didnt.
    Oh jesus christ.....
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  24. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulite View Post
    Do you understand what the word 'probably' means?
    Yeah.
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    I say give him a million hours of community service and make him pick up litter in new york wearing chains. Doubt he would last the day like but at least offically he wont be made a martyr of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    No it was the reptiles of course, and every other thick as **** conspiracy you can dream up

    There were depth charges at the base of the towers, no plane hit the pentagon....bla bla

    Anyways, back to real life and the trial......
    Never ever suggested that reptile people exist.

    But all you can do it try and degrade the argument by tying it to another. Lame.
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  27. #27  
    lfcstlouis is offline Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shajan View Post
    Take it easy. What he did was disgusting but America have killed more civilians then any other country or organization, saying stuff like that proves you're no better then them. We have a saying in sweden :"Clean your own porch". Which means that you should clean infront of your own house before saying other houses are dirty.
    Can you provide me a link to your source. Cheers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    You are trying to rationalize by blaming the US for other civilian deaths, which in itself is pretty disgusting .. maybe you should look at cleaning YOUR porch?
    rationalize? No. I was simply saying that he should calm down and not think the US of some sort of casualty to world oppression, because that's pathetic. The US has caused more deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq than any terrorist organization have ever done and when they **** on corpses and kill children and woman in the night people blame "psychological discomfort". Feel the hypocrisy ?
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    http://usliberals.about.com/od/homel...raqNumbers.htm

    "A UN issued report dated Sept 20, 2006 stating that Iraqi civilian casualties have been significantly under-reported. Casualties are reported at 50,000 to over 100,000, but may be much higher. Some informed estimates place Iraqi civilian casualities at over 600,000."

    That's Iraq alone. Not counting Vietnam and Afghanistan.

    EDIT: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...4eP_story.html
    Last edited by Shajan; 5-4-12 at 13:17.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shajan View Post
    rationalize? No. I was simply saying that he should calm down and not think the US of some sort of casualty to world oppression, because that's pathetic. The US has caused more deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq than any terrorist organization have ever done and when they **** on corpses and kill children and woman in the night people blame "psychological discomfort". Feel the hypocrisy ?
    Surely deaths caused by the US in other countries is during gun battles etc. I.E the people that died had a smoking gun in their hand? The people in the towers were in no such battles.
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