"Dalglish’s Muddled Tactics Have Confused Liverpool":Blog

[Coffeelover]

An article on Liverpool from Michael Cox of Zonalmarking.net.

The original can be found at http://www.lifesapitch.co.uk/opinion...sed-liverpool/

It is just an article on tactics this season not making a judgement on signings.

I can't really say I disagree with anything in the article. I have often wondered what Dalglish was trying to build as the foundation of his side from a stylistic point of view, the one constant was an ever changing of systems and style.



Dalglish’s Muddled Tactics Have Confused Liverpool


The best tacticians leave the opposition guessing. Kenny Dalglish has certainly done that so far this season – the problem is, often his own players are as flummoxed as their opponents.

It’s odd that Dalglish has no consistent shape or strategy, because it appeared that his project at Liverpool was going to be based around cohesion. Before becoming manager for a second time, Dalglish had been working at the club’s youth academy, where there has been an attempt to replicate Barcelona’s development of youngsters.

In addition, the signings of Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson and Stewart Downing were interesting and hinted at a long-term approach. None are world-class players, none are ever likely to be. But the apparent idea was that the players would play alongside each other each week, and the resulting familiarity would have a multiplier effect upon the ability of each.

But it’s been difficult for anyone – youngster or new arrival – to adapt to this Liverpool side, because they’re not sure what they’re adapting to. Dalglish admitted earlier in the season that Downing’s struggles were, at least in part, because he had been used in so many different positions. Dalglish is astute enough to realise that (and admit his own errors), so he must also realise that Downing’s struggles are a microcosm of his team’s.

Versatility can be fantastic, but too much of it can lead to a manager chopping and changing every week. Craig Bellamy has been used on the right, the left and up front. Dirk Kuyt can be a right-winger or a forward. Luis Suarez is still trying to find his best position – up front or behind a central striker? And that’s just the forwards. Downing has been used on either flank, Maxi Rodriguez has played a variety of roles, Adam has been played in a two-man and three-man midfield with various partners – the same goes for Steven Gerrard – and Jordan Henderson is either on the right or through the middle. Tactically, flexible sides need these type of options – but they also need some level of structure, generally down the spine of the side.

The absence of Lucas Leiva has been punishing in so many ways, but perhaps the key was his simplicity. He was the one Liverpool player from who you knew what to expect. Deep in midfield every week, he was always available for a short pass, always on hand to break up an attack. He provided certainty in a team full of doubt.

An on-form Andy Carroll would also have helped – the importance of a static central target to an otherwise fluid team shouldn’t be underestimated. I recall another team who changed formation almost every week – Francesco Guidolin’s Bologna side of 10 seasons ago, who overachieved and nearly made it into the Champions League. They played 3-4-2-1, 4-3-2-1, 4-3-1-2, 3-4-1-2 – pretty much any combination of those four integers you care to create. It worked because of one constant: Julio Cruz, the lumbering tall forward upfront. Like a slip cordon depending upon the wicketkeeper, the rest of the side took their positioning from Cruz.

Managers are often brought in as a response to the failings of their predecessor, and therefore strategically play the opposite type of system. Roy Hodgson’s side played with far too much structure. Dalglish’s side doesn’t have enough of it. There’s a happy medium somewhere.

For now, Liverpool remain a reactive side. They can win one-off games (this season they’ve beaten six of the seven sides currently ahead of them in the table), which explains their cup runs, but they struggle when they’re favourites and have to win the game with their natural style. The reason is obvious – it’s not clear what Liverpool’s natural style is.

[obahiano]

[The absence of Lucas Leiva has been punishing in so many ways, but perhaps the key was his simplicity. He was the one Liverpool player from who you knew what to expect. Deep in midfield every week, he was always available for a short pass, always on hand to break up an attack. He provided certainty in a team full of doubt..[/QUOTE]



I think that this is an exceptionally salient point. We weren't doing too badly up to the turn of the year, but obviously our form has really fallen off a cliff since the Christmas period. Lucas' absence could well be a factor in that - not only because of his role in the team, but also the man himself: his experience, playing style and ability, as well as consistency and mental strength all must play a part in 'steadying the ship'.

Get well soon, lad!

Brought to you by Rafa!

[livrule]

Someone said to me recently that we don't have a first choice 11 ... we have a squad.

Kenny picks 11 players from the squad that he thinks can win each individual game as it comes along.

Its a terrible idea if true and its putting his position at risk.

[RossMosh]

Kenny is not a tactical manager. He does very basic things like setup a basic formation and talk about how to keep the ball, passing, basic defensive structure, making your man, ect ect ect. He is not Rafa who was very structured in his tactics.

I truly believe if you give Kenny a bunch of fantastic footballers, they would love to play under him. Give Kenny a bunch of mediocre players who are afraid to play the game and we see what we get. Players like Downing, Adam, and Henderson are just not used to this kind of football.

In the end, it all falls back on buying the wrong players. I know I sound like a broken record but it's the truth.

[Dmode101]

i think michael cox is just stating the problem and not the overall challenges of liverpool at the current transition. you can say its an elaborate kneejerk again. you noticed most of the player with adaptability issues are the attacking players? why is this the pattern. well simply put is that kenny's attacking philosophy is that when it comes to attack, attacking players must only have an overall strategy and the rest must depend on the cohesion of the players around him in the attacking third and look out for creative ways to break teams down. this is very important point and I believe this season we fail because we dont have top tier attacking players who can have enough intelligence and flair (unpredictability) to say play one two or dribble or just shoot when required. Downing is a stop gap squad player and british buy policy fulfillment but overpaid by comolli. henderson are safe buys for the future. kuyt is on his way out for the right wing.

we are clearly in transition and until the owners buy at least one top player in the wings then we can see more of this philosophy in action. Which is far from muddled.

This way of playing takes more time to bed in, not just for these current attacking players but for the future of the whole club. sori have to bring in rafa again. you see rafa in way regressed our football with too much tactics for the attacking players except maybe just give the ball to torres part. but most of the time, he has alot of instructions for the defensive nature even for the attackers esp wingers and of the AM. this may sound "controlled" but long term wise we will fail to have the natural mindset to know how to beat smaller teams because all this players are "drilled" and its hard to be drilled to beat an even drilled defensive poor team. thats why we consistently beat bigger teams as they open up more for these "tactics" to work. Rafa archilles heel is that he underestimated the lower teams in england as the grit and determination of local players here can be very hard to break down with tactics. only flair with combination of intelligence can beat it.

in a nutshell flair is the real missing ingredient we have. suarez is the closest we have now but he doesnt have pace and his shots are not varied enough to be a true top striker. its no wonder there weren't any competition for his signature. flair we need more in the wings which is terms of transfer fee could potentially be the most expensive. and thats why we havent bought a top tier hazard or lavezzi for ages. its money and kenny definitely muddled in that area.

[Coffeelover]

Kenny is not a tactical manager. He does very basic things like setup a basic formation and talk about how to keep the ball, passing, basic defensive structure, making your man, ect ect ect. He is not Rafa who was very structured in his tactics.

I truly believe if you give Kenny a bunch of fantastic footballers, they would love to play under him. Give Kenny a bunch of mediocre players who are afraid to play the game and we see what we get. Players like Downing, Adam, and Henderson are just not used to this kind of football.

In the end, it all falls back on buying the wrong players. I know I sound like a broken record but it's the truth.

I did think along similar lines to this at one stage.

Give Kenny Dalglish a group of class players and he can motivate them to playing good football and success.

Give Kenny Dalglish an average squad of underachieving players and he might not be able to get them to play to their potential.

I know a lot of fantastic sportsman who cannot coach or train because it all came to them instinctively and automatically, they can't teach what came to them naturally.

Another concern would be that Dalglish might not be able to build a squad when he does not have the same money available and cannot entice the best players to come to Liverpool. It takes a certain type of manager who just looks at the players he has and makes them overachieve as a team.

[cloudy12]

Kenny is not a tactical manager. He does very basic things like setup a basic formation and talk about how to keep the ball, passing, basic defensive structure, making your man, ect ect ect. He is not Rafa who was very structured in his tactics.

I truly believe if you give Kenny a bunch of fantastic footballers, they would love to play under him. Give Kenny a bunch of mediocre players who are afraid to play the game and we see what we get. Players like Downing, Adam, and Henderson are just not used to this kind of football.

In the end, it all falls back on buying the wrong players. I know I sound like a broken record but it's the truth.

Tin hats at the ready.

I do kind of agree with the squad thing and tactics but what chance do we have in Europe if this is the case? Tactics in Europe is just as important as the starting 11. Rafa proved this by winning the European Cup. That team was certainly not the strongest but he tactically outclassed the lot of them.

[ShayGuevara]

Someone said to me recently that we don't have a first choice 11 ... we have a squad.

Kenny picks 11 players from the squad that he thinks can win each individual game as it comes along.

Its a terrible idea if true and its putting his position at risk.

Fergie Out!!

How stupid of a manager to rotate his players

[Dna]

Kenny is not a tactical manager. He does very basic things like setup a basic formation and talk about how to keep the ball, passing, basic defensive structure, making your man, ect ect ect. He is not Rafa who was very structured in his tactics.

I truly believe if you give Kenny a bunch of fantastic footballers, they would love to play under him. Give Kenny a bunch of mediocre players who are afraid to play the game and we see what we get. Players like Downing, Adam, and Henderson are just not used to this kind of football.

In the end, it all falls back on buying the wrong players. I know I sound like a broken record but it's the truth.

Totally agree.

KD is not the right man for current Liverpool FC, perhaps Roberto Martinez... i dont know

[livrule]

Fergie Out!!

How stupid of a manager to rotate his players

You really did miss the point of that one didn't you ...

And yes, with results like ours its looking very stupid.

[FightCloob]

Fergie Out!!

How stupid of a manager to rotate his players

Fergie wins titles with a well drilled team that has purpose, direction and a can-do attitude.

[ShayGuevara]

An article on Liverpool from Michael Cox of Zonalmarking.net.

The original can be found at http://www.lifesapitch.co.uk/opinion...sed-liverpool/

It is just an article on tactics this season not making a judgement on signings.

I can't really say I disagree with anything in the article. I have often wondered what Dalglish was trying to build as the foundation of his side from a stylistic point of view, the one constant was an ever changing of systems and style.



Dalglish’s Muddled Tactics Have Confused Liverpool


The best tacticians leave the opposition guessing. Kenny Dalglish has certainly done that so far this season – the problem is, often his own players are as flummoxed as their opponents.

It’s odd that Dalglish has no consistent shape or strategy, because it appeared that his project at Liverpool was going to be based around cohesion. Before becoming manager for a second time, Dalglish had been working at the club’s youth academy, where there has been an attempt to replicate Barcelona’s development of youngsters.

In addition, the signings of Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson and Stewart Downing were interesting and hinted at a long-term approach. None are world-class players, none are ever likely to be. But the apparent idea was that the players would play alongside each other each week, and the resulting familiarity would have a multiplier effect upon the ability of each.

But it’s been difficult for anyone – youngster or new arrival – to adapt to this Liverpool side, because they’re not sure what they’re adapting to. Dalglish admitted earlier in the season that Downing’s struggles were, at least in part, because he had been used in so many different positions. Dalglish is astute enough to realise that (and admit his own errors), so he must also realise that Downing’s struggles are a microcosm of his team’s.

Versatility can be fantastic, but too much of it can lead to a manager chopping and changing every week. Craig Bellamy has been used on the right, the left and up front. Dirk Kuyt can be a right-winger or a forward. Luis Suarez is still trying to find his best position – up front or behind a central striker? And that’s just the forwards. Downing has been used on either flank, Maxi Rodriguez has played a variety of roles, Adam has been played in a two-man and three-man midfield with various partners – the same goes for Steven Gerrard – and Jordan Henderson is either on the right or through the middle. Tactically, flexible sides need these type of options – but they also need some level of structure, generally down the spine of the side.

The absence of Lucas Leiva has been punishing in so many ways, but perhaps the key was his simplicity. He was the one Liverpool player from who you knew what to expect. Deep in midfield every week, he was always available for a short pass, always on hand to break up an attack. He provided certainty in a team full of doubt.

An on-form Andy Carroll would also have helped – the importance of a static central target to an otherwise fluid team shouldn’t be underestimated. I recall another team who changed formation almost every week – Francesco Guidolin’s Bologna side of 10 seasons ago, who overachieved and nearly made it into the Champions League. They played 3-4-2-1, 4-3-2-1, 4-3-1-2, 3-4-1-2 – pretty much any combination of those four integers you care to create. It worked because of one constant: Julio Cruz, the lumbering tall forward upfront. Like a slip cordon depending upon the wicketkeeper, the rest of the side took their positioning from Cruz.

Managers are often brought in as a response to the failings of their predecessor, and therefore strategically play the opposite type of system. Roy Hodgson’s side played with far too much structure. Dalglish’s side doesn’t have enough of it. There’s a happy medium somewhere.

For now, Liverpool remain a reactive side. They can win one-off games (this season they’ve beaten six of the seven sides currently ahead of them in the table), which explains their cup runs, but they struggle when they’re favourites and have to win the game with their natural style. The reason is obvious – it’s not clear what Liverpool’s natural style is.

This article seems like a lazy dig at Dalglish.

They criticise him for playing Bellamy up front on the right or left when all wide players switch wings throughout games and he's only played him as a lone striker once.

With Suarez Dalglish plays him in either of the front two positions depending on the game but I don't see that as massive problem. I've seen Rooney play as a lone striker or off a striker and never any criticism of it in fact it would be more likely fergie would be praised.

Again Maxi has been used in a variety of roles? He's played in the same role he's always played and I think once off the striker. Does anyone criticise Mourinho when he plays Ozil in the hole instead of to the right of centre in a 4-2-3-1.

Dalglish's biggest problem tactically this season has been to employ such rigid tactics with a squad not capable of pulling them off. He's made us hard to beat this season instead of going at teams looking for the win. Last season he got his job and earned it by playing a fluid 4-2-3-1 system which relied on full backs giving width and the defensive midfielders being extremely disciplined so that the attacking 4 can be as fluid as the want. This compensate's for our lack of a killer ball or pace, we don't have the Mata or Silva type player that Chelsea nd City use. We don't have the Valencia, Young, Lennon or Bale player with massive bursts of pace that can get behind teams that Spurs and United have. Fluid attacking football makes up for this though and teams struggle defend against it.

I can't understand why this season we've been playing 4-4-1-1 mostly with the wide players tracking back and not being allowed do what they were signed for, and thats chance creation. They were allowed that at their previous clubs, so why sign a player for his creativity and then make him chase a full back up and down the wing all day and not be allowed stray from his position? It reminds me of Benitez's system where the wingers struggled and the only two attacking players that prospered were the attacking 2 - Gerrard and Torres. For Benitez though he had two of the best players in the world and it was enough to get goals and concede few with the rest of the side being so disciplined. Now we have Suarez and Carroll and it's just not enough on their own as we've found in so many low scoring games this season.

To be honest I can't agree with much of this article and I see our problems a lot different than the author. I think we shhould be possibly playing Bellamy as the lead stiker with Suarez off him but this just encourages teams to sit deep to counter his pace. I think Carroll needs to play more even if he doesn't score as many as we'd like as he stops teams from playing as narrow and opens up oppurtunities for us, a look at our win ratio with him in the side would back that up. I think Henderson needs to play centrally or at least be let play in a more fluid system. Our biggest problem positionally though is where to put Steven Gerrard when everyone's fit. If we're to have a 4-2-3-1 pass and move philosophy thoughout the club why play with a 4-4-1-1 system? Is it to fit Stevie in? I'd prefer to see some one signed to partner Lucas, a defensive minded player who can move play quickly up the pitch.

Kenny got his job with a system that was fluid, great to watch and worked, he since changed to a system that isn't half as nice to watch and doesn't work. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to work out what he needs to do. I very much doubt playing the same players in the same positions every week will have anywhere near the same impact as reverting back to the system used in the second half of last season when Spearing and Lucas played behind an attacking 4 of Meireles, Kuyt, Maxi and Suarez. Swap that attacking 4 for Gerrard, Bellamy, Suarez and Carroll or Kuyt and it would do much better.

[ShayGuevara]

Fergie wins titles with a well drilled team that has purpose, direction and a can-do attitude.

So you're agreeing with the previous poster that we shouldn't rotate players or use certain players in certain games?

[rayvonuk]

Kenny is not a tactical manager. He does very basic things like setup a basic formation and talk about how to keep the ball, passing, basic defensive structure, making your man, ect ect ect. He is not Rafa who was very structured in his tactics.

I truly believe if you give Kenny a bunch of fantastic footballers, they would love to play under him. Give Kenny a bunch of mediocre players who are afraid to play the game and we see what we get. Players like Downing, Adam, and Henderson are just not used to this kind of football.

In the end, it all falls back on buying the wrong players. I know I sound like a broken record but it's the truth.

I think its bizarre to say the least, to make the assumption that kenny is not a tactical manager, you dont get anywhere managing, if you know nothing about tactics.
That has to be one of the most ridiculous things i have read on here, and i have read some whoppers.

[livrule]

So you're agreeing with the previous poster that we shouldn't rotate players or use certain players in certain games?

We aren't rotating you numpty ... thats the whole point.

You rotate when you have a clear first choice 11, cover fatigue maybe swap 1-2 players.

Kenny just cherry picks from a whole batch of players ... different formations, teams, tactics, shapes .... EVERY GAME.

[come-on-No19]

Fergie wins titles with a well drilled team that has purpose, direction and a can-do attitude.

plus he doesn`t have to pick from Downing, Carroll or Adam

[Ben1986]

Someone said to me recently that we don't have a first choice 11 ... we have a squad.

Kenny picks 11 players from the squad that he thinks can win each individual game as it comes along.

Its a terrible idea if true and its putting his position at risk.

Imo his vision of 11 for this season was (At least MF & infront):

Henderson---Lucas--SG--Downing

--------Suarez----Caroll

But due to injuries it never happend, and there was no plan B.

Plan B should have been last season's team with Maxi Kuyt Jay & Meireles
but all were out of rotation for the first 2 months more or less and 1 was sold.

They may not be WC players but Together as a unit they are very good
and fit the style as we saw last season.

[FightCloob]

So you're agreeing with the previous poster that we shouldn't rotate players or use certain players in certain games?

I'm saying that in recent years Fergie has proven to be a winner and a top manager who knows his players and that when he does rotate them, they are all well aware of the job they have to do and still able to play with certain amount of fluency.

If you think the same argument can be applied to us, well, I need not say more.

[livrule]

plus he doesn`t have to pick from Downing, Carroll or Adam

That would help any side ...

[ShayGuevara]

I'm saying that in recent years Fergie has proven to be a winner and a top manager who knows his players and that when he does rotate them, they are all well aware of the job they have to do and still able to play with certain amount of fluency.

If you think the same argument can be applied to us, well, I need not say more.

That's completely off the point I was making so I'm not sure why you brought it up tbh.

[livrule]

That's completely off the point I was making so I'm not sure why you brought it up tbh.

Is it?

Hes saying rotation works when the players 'know' the system and style being used .... They slip into the side and the machine plows on ...

The complete opposite of how players must feel when they come into our side ...

[-Topper-]

I think its bizarre to say the least, to make the assumption that kenny is not a tactical manager, you dont get anywhere managing, if you know nothing about tactics.
That has to be one of the most ridiculous things i have read on here, and i have read some whoppers.

I wouldn't say Ferguson is the most tactical of bosses, yet look at what he's won. For years his main tactic was throwing on strikers if things weren't working out.

[robertretford]

I wouldn't say Ferguson is the most tactical of bosses, yet look at what he's won. For years his main tactic was throwing on strikers if things weren't working out.

I agree. It is often highlighted in Europe.

[Seamus78]

I wouldn't say Ferguson is the most tactical of bosses, yet look at what he's won. For years his main tactic was throwing on strikers if things weren't working out.

Ive said it before on here, but football is such a simple game. Once you try to over complicate the game, then the players (not known for their brains) are out of depth.

[TheDarknessIsCalling]

Someone said to me recently that we don't have a first choice 11 ... we have a squad.

Kenny picks 11 players from the squad that he thinks can win each individual game as it comes along.

Its a terrible idea if true and its putting his position at risk.

Not so sure that is true, the selections aren't as random as that might imply.

League starts

31 Reina
30 Enrique
29 Skrtel
27 Adam (+1 app as sub)
26 Suarez (+2 apps as sub)
24 Downing and Henderson (+6 apps each as sub)
20 Agger (+1 app as sub)
19 Kuyt (+9 apps as sub)
17 Johnson (+1 app as sub)
16 Carroll (+13 apps as sub)
15 Carragher (+2 apps as sub)
12 Lucas, Spearing (+1 app as sub)
11 Gerrard (+5 apps as sub)
10 Bellamy (+12 apps as sub), Kelly
5 Rodriguez (+2 apps as sub)
3 Coates (+1 app as sub), Flanagan
2 Shelvey (+4 apps as sub)

Gerrard has been out injured yet made made one more start than Bellamy. Seven in the list have started 24+ league games. We've used 24 different players in the league. I think the main problem is persisting with three new midfielders whose contribution combined is three goals in 88 appearances and not enough assists to compensate. Bellamy has started just 10 league games yet has more goals then Downing, Adam and Henderson combined.

It is goals costing us, can't be helped by some of Kenny's tactics but selections play a bigger part than formation unless the formation is shocking which it rarely is given we still enjoy a lot of possession, shots, crosses but not enough end product. Is Lucas' absence seriously the issue? I doubt it, while we did win half the games he played in we still only had a record of P12 W6 D4 L2 PTS 22 which is pretty good, we still had only scored 16 goals and two of the wins were against poor sides at home - Wolves and Bolton. We continue to be toothless, Lucas wouldn't change that, and some of the defeats have been simply poor defending.

[xKopLadx]

the problem this year has been luck
how many times have we hit the woodwork?
how mamy times should we of had penos?
Dalglish is the right man for this job it will turn good, but we cant afford to be carrying players like henderson ( who is the worst player ever to wear a lfc shirt) i will also argue carrolls side because he has been unlucky and never really had a good run in the team not even when suarez had his ban. Keep the Faith

[-Topper-]

I agree. It is often highlighted in Europe.

They have reached the final in 3 of the previous 4 years alright, but for years they kept losing to teams that were inferior but tactically astute. When he tried the 4-4-1-1 with Scholes behind the horse and Veron in the middle it unbalanced them.

[rayvonuk]

Ive said it before on here, but football is such a simple game. Once you try to over complicate the game, then the players (not known for their brains) are out of depth.

Yea i agree there and just look at brian clough, he didnt really go through many tactics at all according to his former players, and it worked ok for him.

[tress]

So you're agreeing with the previous poster that we shouldn't rotate players or use certain players in certain games?

I can see your point, but don't you find it odd that Kenny seems to drop players that just started hitting form ? It happened to Carroll, Downing, Bellers, etc ...

[ShayGuevara]

Is it?

Hes saying rotation works when the players 'know' the system and style being used .... They slip into the side and the machine plows on ...

The complete opposite of how players must feel when they come into our side ...

There is little or no difference in tactics from a left sided player and a right sided player.

Suarez can play either position and plays several positions for Uruguay and Oscar Tabarez is praised for it, why is Kenny criticised?

Honestly any possibly way to have a dig at the manager and some of you's just jump in. If you don't like our manager as strange as I find that fair enough but at least give a balanced, more intelligent and thought out view of what he's doing right and wrong instead of backing up what some journo who probably only watches the odd Liverpool match has to say on it.

I'm actually amazed that Zonal Marking is considered as reputable as it is at times with articles like that but then again it just sum's up the poor level of journalism in the game. Half of of them have prob never kicked a ball in their life.