"Dalglish’s Muddled Tactics Have Confused Liverpool":Blog

[robertretford]

They have reached the final in 3 of the previous 4 years alright, but for years they kept losing to teams that were inferior but tactically astute. When he tried the 4-4-1-1 with Scholes behind the horse and Veron in the middle it unbalanced them.

I do agree with you. In twenty six years of management and all the domestic dominance they have enjoyed his 'trophy haul' in Europe is relatively poor.

[Seamus78]

Yea i agree there and just look at brian clough, he didnt really go through many tactics at all according to his former players, and it worked ok for him.

Clough, fergie and I doubt the likes of Shankly over complicated the game. I dont think Mourinho does now.

AVB tried too hard at Chelsea and failed, Kenny is doing the same.

No need to be clever, just score more than the opponent.

Rafa is a tactical genious, but he keeps that in his head, what he actually says to the players is in lehmans terms.

[ShayGuevara]

I can see your point, but don't you find it odd that Kenny seems to drop players that just started hitting form ? It happened to Carroll, Downing, Bellers, etc ...

Rotation. I understand it, Bellamy can only play once a week max. If anything we overused him at a stage this season when Suarez was out.

Downing and Carroll need to be rotated and the system is their biggest enemys. When Downings been allowed be more fluid he's been popping up all over the attacking third and scoring and playing well.

Carroll isn't getting the support he needs in the box from crosses and is technically not good enough to rely on if we want to play a fluid pass and move game. What he does though is allows space for other players as teams have to play wider. We need more pace out wide in case teams push up but he's certainly an asset and offers us an other option when passing our way through doesn't work.

[ZimboRed]

An article on Liverpool from Michael Cox of Zonalmarking.net.

The original can be found at http://www.lifesapitch.co.uk/opinion...sed-liverpool/

It is just an article on tactics this season not making a judgement on signings.

I can't really say I disagree with anything in the article. I have often wondered what Dalglish was trying to build as the foundation of his side from a stylistic point of view, the one constant was an ever changing of systems and style.



Dalglish’s Muddled Tactics Have Confused Liverpool


The best tacticians leave the opposition guessing. Kenny Dalglish has certainly done that so far this season – the problem is, often his own players are as flummoxed as their opponents.

It’s odd that Dalglish has no consistent shape or strategy, because it appeared that his project at Liverpool was going to be based around cohesion. Before becoming manager for a second time, Dalglish had been working at the club’s youth academy, where there has been an attempt to replicate Barcelona’s development of youngsters.

In addition, the signings of Charlie Adam, Jordan Henderson and Stewart Downing were interesting and hinted at a long-term approach. None are world-class players, none are ever likely to be. But the apparent idea was that the players would play alongside each other each week, and the resulting familiarity would have a multiplier effect upon the ability of each.

But it’s been difficult for anyone – youngster or new arrival – to adapt to this Liverpool side, because they’re not sure what they’re adapting to. Dalglish admitted earlier in the season that Downing’s struggles were, at least in part, because he had been used in so many different positions. Dalglish is astute enough to realise that (and admit his own errors), so he must also realise that Downing’s struggles are a microcosm of his team’s.

Versatility can be fantastic, but too much of it can lead to a manager chopping and changing every week. Craig Bellamy has been used on the right, the left and up front. Dirk Kuyt can be a right-winger or a forward. Luis Suarez is still trying to find his best position – up front or behind a central striker? And that’s just the forwards. Downing has been used on either flank, Maxi Rodriguez has played a variety of roles, Adam has been played in a two-man and three-man midfield with various partners – the same goes for Steven Gerrard – and Jordan Henderson is either on the right or through the middle. Tactically, flexible sides need these type of options – but they also need some level of structure, generally down the spine of the side.

The absence of Lucas Leiva has been punishing in so many ways, but perhaps the key was his simplicity. He was the one Liverpool player from who you knew what to expect. Deep in midfield every week, he was always available for a short pass, always on hand to break up an attack. He provided certainty in a team full of doubt.

An on-form Andy Carroll would also have helped – the importance of a static central target to an otherwise fluid team shouldn’t be underestimated. I recall another team who changed formation almost every week – Francesco Guidolin’s Bologna side of 10 seasons ago, who overachieved and nearly made it into the Champions League. They played 3-4-2-1, 4-3-2-1, 4-3-1-2, 3-4-1-2 – pretty much any combination of those four integers you care to create. It worked because of one constant: Julio Cruz, the lumbering tall forward upfront. Like a slip cordon depending upon the wicketkeeper, the rest of the side took their positioning from Cruz.

Managers are often brought in as a response to the failings of their predecessor, and therefore strategically play the opposite type of system. Roy Hodgson’s side played with far too much structure. Dalglish’s side doesn’t have enough of it. There’s a happy medium somewhere.

For now, Liverpool remain a reactive side. They can win one-off games (this season they’ve beaten six of the seven sides currently ahead of them in the table), which explains their cup runs, but they struggle when they’re favourites and have to win the game with their natural style. The reason is obvious – it’s not clear what Liverpool’s natural style is.

The best example of this was the game against Newcastle last week. I'm not sure if anyone else has seen the heat map for that game but in terms of attacking width, Enrique was the only one attacking down our left hand side for at least 90% of the game and I couldn't figure out why that was. I actually remember watching the game and watching Enrique, on many occasions, look ahead to see if a player was available to play a 1-2 with or just to pass to further down the line and there would be no one there. He'd then proceed to try take on 2 or 3 players by himself or just pass back into the middle. I'm not sure who was meant to be playing down the left hand side but whoever it was either didn't know they were meant to be playing there or they just refused to listen to instruction. Either way it was just a mess tactically.

[-Topper-]

Ive said it before on here, but football is such a simple game. Once you try to over complicate the game, then the players (not known for their brains) are out of depth.

Tactics can be pivotal in certain games, but you need to have the right players to constantly tinker with formations and positions. Capello seemed to struggle getting England to adapt to a more tactical, cerebral style of play.

[Gooooaaaal]

Kenny is not a tactical manager. He does very basic things like setup a basic formation and talk about how to keep the ball, passing, basic defensive structure, making your man, ect ect ect. He is not Rafa who was very structured in his tactics.

I truly believe if you give Kenny a bunch of fantastic footballers, they would love to play under him. Give Kenny a bunch of mediocre players who are afraid to play the game and we see what we get. Players like Downing, Adam, and Henderson are just not used to this kind of football.

In the end, it all falls back on buying the wrong players. I know I sound like a broken record but it's the truth.

yep.
something between rafa's tactical nous and kenny's man-management would be ideal.

[Afterthought]

There is little or no difference in tactics from a left sided player and a right sided player.

Suarez can play either position and plays several positions for Uruguay and Oscar Tabarez is praised for it, why is Kenny criticised?

Honestly any possibly way to have a dig at the manager and some of you's just jump in. If you don't like our manager as strange as I find that fair enough but at least give a balanced, more intelligent and thought out view of what he's doing right and wrong instead of backing up what some journo who probably only watches the odd Liverpool match has to say on it.

I'm actually amazed that Zonal Marking is considered as reputable as it is at times with articles like that but then again it just sum's up the poor level of journalism in the game. Half of of them have prob never kicked a ball in their life.

You've never played football, have you?

(Edit: clearly I'm going to have to point out why I said that: it makes no sense to talk about tactics for a particular side. Tactics always depend upon the players around, behind, and in front of each player and your opposition (not to mention the player's own strengths). It is a nonsensical statement to say that '(t)here is little or no difference in tactics from a left sided player and a right sided player.' That just isn't how tactics work.)

[Coffeelover]

Originally Posted by ShayGuevara
There is little or no difference in tactics from a left sided player and a right sided player.

Suarez can play either position and plays several positions for Uruguay and Oscar Tabarez is praised for it, why is Kenny criticised?

Honestly any possibly way to have a dig at the manager and some of you's just jump in. If you don't like our manager as strange as I find that fair enough but at least give a balanced, more intelligent and thought out view of what he's doing right and wrong instead of backing up what some journo who probably only watches the odd Liverpool match has to say on it.

I'm actually amazed that Zonal Marking is considered as reputable as it is at times with articles like that but then again it just sum's up the poor level of journalism in the game. Half of of them have prob never kicked a ball in their life.

You've never played football, have you?

I am sure players like Messi, Robben, Ribery, Ronaldo don't care what side they play on..............................


Who cares if you play as an inverted winger or not, I can't imagine that it might affect how you play..............

I wonder why Arbeloa was switched to a left fullback role against Barcelona all those years ago? Probably had something to do with defending agaisnt that pesky youngster Barcelona had who kept cutting in on his left foot, talented boy he was.

[Afterthought]

I am sure players like Messi, Robben, Ribery, Ronaldo don't care what side they play on..............................


Who cares if you play as an inverted winger or not, I can't imagine that it might affect how you play..............

I wonder why Arbeloa was switched to a left fullback role against Barcelona all those years ago? Probably had something to do with defending agaisnt that pesky youngster Barcelona had who kept cutting in on his left foot, talented boy he was.

Never mind, I misread.

[RedSkirttles]

Kenny has got his tactics wrong on oh so many occasions and I agree with needless continuous changes.

[Coffeelover]

Oh I agree, but that doesn't mean they have the same tactics on either side.

If you're a wide player playing in front of a left back who goes forward a lot, or a right back who defends your tactical responsibilities change depending upon which side you play. To talk about a player having tactics based purely upon the side they play just doesn't make sense.

I, of course, was always agreeing with your main point of view.

Where you play has to fit in with the rest of your team. The side you play on is important depending what foot you prefer but it still has to fit in with the structure of the rest of the team.

I have a friend who works in football statistics and he always comes up with interesting facts. One is that Craig Bellamy is a decent footballer with many strengths but he is one of the worse crossers in modern football.

Coaches soon found this out and he became a left sided wide forward who cut in towards goal. He is obviously ok as a central forward as well but you cannot rely on him as a wide attacking winger who puts in accurate crosses.

After you know this you begin to notice how bad he is at this and how he avoids it whenever possible.

[Afterthought]

I, of course, was always agreeing with your main point of view.

Where you play has to fit in with the rest of your team. The side you play on is important depending what foot you prefer but it still has to fit in with the structure of the rest of the team.

I have a friend who works in football statistics and he always comes up with interesting facts. One is that Craig Bellamy is a decent footballer with many strengths but he is one of the worse crossers in modern football.

Coaches soon found this out and he became a left sided wide forward who cut in towards goal. He is obviously ok as a central forward as well but you cannot rely on him as a wide attacking winger who puts in accurate crosses.

After you know this you begin to notice how bad he is at this and how he avoids it whenever possible.

Yeah, I quickly realised that when I reread your post. Hoped I'd edited it in time, but clearly not!

[Coffeelover]

Yeah, I quickly realised that when I reread your post. Hoped I'd edited it in time, but clearly not!

No problem, I understood but yes, I had already pressed the button!

[VishRed1]

Dalglish is as clueless as they come.sadly.

[TheBuckStopsWithRodgers]

Dalglish is as clueless as they come.sadly.

I wouldn't even trust him to manage that pub side from the mars advert.

[LFCDynamic]

I wouldn't even trust him to manage that pub side from the mars advert.

Do you knw when the transfer windows is open? Your username doesn't make any sense....

[cravenz]

Dalglish is as clueless as they come.sadly.

I wouldn't even trust him to manage that pub side from the mars advert.

It may seem that way, but to be fair, Kenny did win us a fair bit as well, so let's not discount that either. And we did just get a Carling Cup win in the bag too.

Things certainly aren't all that rosy at the moment though, unfortunately. It's been tough for everyone of us, but when we do get back up to the top, it will be that much sweeter as well. That's what I take comfort in I guess.

[winnerrr]

It seems to me like Kenny does not know what exactly he wants the players to do. It seems like the team is not organized well. Many times this season we left a huge gap between our midfield and defence, That happened against Villa also. It’s not normal. He just couldn’t find the right position in the right tactics for Suarez, Carroll, Hendo, Adam. Then comes the question why did he bought them? What was the purpose of buying them? Why exactly them ? And why is Maxi always on the bench, when he appears to be our most clinical finisher? So disappointed of Kenny’s tactics, which for me is the main reason for our current league position.

[ForzaAdorjan]

I did think along similar lines to this at one stage.

Give Kenny Dalglish a group of class players and he can motivate them to playing good football and success.

Give Kenny Dalglish an average squad of underachieving players and he might not be able to get them to play to their potential.

I know a lot of fantastic sportsman who cannot coach or train because it all came to them instinctively and automatically, they can't teach what came to them naturally.

Another concern would be that Dalglish might not be able to build a squad when he does not have the same money available and cannot entice the best players to come to Liverpool. It takes a certain type of manager who just looks at the players he has and makes them overachieve as a team.

Yeah but doesn't that make Dalglish a poor manager, you should be able to get the best out of your players, ala Mourinho.

[JohnnyZidane]

the problem this year has been luck
how many times have we hit the woodwork?
how mamy times should we of had penos?Dalglish is the right man for this job it will turn good, but we cant afford to be carrying players like henderson ( who is the worst player ever to wear a lfc shirt) i will also argue carrolls side because he has been unlucky and never really had a good run in the team not even when suarez had his ban. Keep the Faith

Sorry mate but this is a load of cr@p.
According to your theory then if a player hits the woodwork when he has an open goal in front of him then that's bad luck?.
It's a lack of composure in front of goal that's the problem. The number of penalties we've missed this season is proof of that.
If you start blaming all your problems on a lack of any luck then you're putting your head in the sand as to the real reasons.

[Shriekback]

Give Kenny some world class players and he will come good? shame he couldn't buy them with the money he had

[ShayGuevara]

You've never played football, have you?

(Edit: clearly I'm going to have to point out why I said that: it makes no sense to talk about tactics for a particular side. Tactics always depend upon the players around, behind, and in front of each player and your opposition (not to mention the player's own strengths). It is a nonsensical statement to say that '(t)here is little or no difference in tactics from a left sided player and a right sided player.' That just isn't how tactics work.)

I do play football. Not at a high level though but in general a player on the right will be doing the same work as the player on the left especially in a 4-4-2.

[TheBuckStopsWithRodgers]

Do you knw when the transfer windows is open? Your username doesn't make any sense....

It rhymes and you can buy a player any time of the year, just they can't come till the window officialy opens. Like Bayern bought Shaqiri in February, when the window was shut.

[robertretford]

I do play football. Not at a high level though but in general a player on the right will be doing the same work as the player on the left especially in a 4-4-2.

Unless it's a left footed player playing on the right and vice versa.

[TheBuckStopsWithRodgers]

It may seem that way, but to be fair, Kenny did win us a fair bit as well, so let's not discount that either. And we did just get a Carling Cup win in the bag too.

Things certainly aren't all that rosy at the moment though, unfortunately. It's been tough for everyone of us, but when we do get back up to the top, it will be that much sweeter as well. That's what I take comfort in I guess.

He has a worse win % this season than Hodgson had as liverpool manager. He is clueless, and theres no sign of improvement on the horizon. He is tactically inept and thats why managers of his generation such as Venables and George Graham don't get employed, as there are dinosaurs. Lack of creativity. Kenny thought flat 4-4-2/4-3-3 with Downing crossing to Carroll=goals. He was buying barnes, rush, pearce (in mid 30's ) and Stephen Guivarch'h for a newcastle side who had just finished 2nd. Completley clueless. Surprise suprise newcastle scored 35 ghoals all season and finished 13th, something were not too far from doing.

[saints11]

I did think along similar lines to this at one stage.

Give Kenny Dalglish a group of class players and he can motivate them to playing good football and success.

Give Kenny Dalglish an average squad of underachieving players and he might not be able to get them to play to their potential.

I know a lot of fantastic sportsman who cannot coach or train because it all came to them instinctively and automatically, they can't teach what came to them naturally.

Another concern would be that Dalglish might not be able to build a squad when he does not have the same money available and cannot entice the best players to come to Liverpool. It takes a certain type of manager who just looks at the players he has and makes them overachieve as a team.

Didnt they used to say that give Rafa quality players and he can create a great team? Im sure there tittering away at Inter Milan. He managed to take the Champions of Europe and turn them in to Liverpool FC all with in 6 months.

[cravenz]

He has a worse win % this season than Hodgson had as liverpool manager. He is clueless, and theres no sign of improvement on the horizon. He is tactically inept and thats why managers of his generation such as Venables and George Graham don't get employed, as there are dinosaurs. Lack of creativity. Kenny thought flat 4-4-2/4-3-3 with Downing crossing to Carroll=goals. He was buying barnes, rush, pearce (in mid 30's ) and Stephen Guivarch'h for a newcastle side who had just finished 2nd. Completley clueless. Surprise suprise newcastle scored 35 ghoals all season and finished 13th, something were not too far from doing.

I know that, and I've said as much in other threads, but that doesn't explain why he was able to outplay teams at the end of last season, and also at the start of this season, put out decent performances where the only thing that stopped us from some more goals, was the post. Yes, currently things look bleak, but there is every possibility that the current run is just due to the mental inability of players to get themselves across the line; and when one thing capitulates, everything starts to fall down like dominoes.

[Afterthought]

I do play football. Not at a high level though but in general a player on the right will be doing the same work as the player on the left especially in a 4-4-2.

Proof if any was needed that you don't actually read anyone else's posts. (Unless, perhaps, they agree with you.)

You're just factually wrong, and it has already been explained to you why. Not just by me (although the fact that it was in the post you responded to is slightly irritating...).

[TheBuckStopsWithRodgers]

I know that, and I've said as much in other threads, but that doesn't explain why he was able to outplay teams at the end of last season, and also at the start of this season, put out decent performances where the only thing that stopped us from some more goals, was the post. Yes, currently things look bleak, but there is every possibility that the current run is just due to the mental inability of players to get themselves across the line; and when one thing capitulates, everything starts to fall down like dominoes.

Because we had Meireles last season. They showed on match of the days runs he made that Henderson and co won't ever make. His technique is volleys vs wolves and wigan are things henderson, adam and downing can only dream of. Last season there was no pressure on the players after every win or defeat i wasn't calculated our proximity to fourth, we were just playing for pride. Do you think if the owners said they wouldn't invest money in a caretaker manager and Kenny had to do with Ngog and kuyt for rest of season that we woud even have been top 10?. Suarez had a MASSIVE impact epitomized by his performnce in our 3-1 win vs MAN u, even carroll chipped in with a good performance vs city. That is the reason for the differee between kennys 10/11 and Roy. The problem this season is he has broken up maxi/meireles/suarez combo, lost faith of players etc. He is as clueles as they come, he has no idea in is head as he sits at home now as to how to turn this around.

[VishRed1]

Because we had Meireles last season. They showed on match of the days runs he made that Henderson and co won't ever make. His technique is volleys vs wolves and wigan are things henderson, adam and downing can only dream of. Last season there was no pressure on the players after every win or defeat i wasn't calculated our proximity to fourth, we were just playing for pride. Do you think if the owners said they wouldn't invest money in a caretaker manager and Kenny had to do with Ngog and kuyt for rest of season that we woud even have been top 10?. Suarez had a MASSIVE impact epitomized by his performnce in our 3-1 win vs MAN u, even carroll chipped in with a good performance vs city. That is the reason for the differee between kennys 10/11 and Roy. The problem this season is he has broken up maxi/meireles/suarez combo, lost faith of players etc. He is as clueles as they come, he has no idea in is head as he sits at home now as to how to turn this around.

If Kenny had 300 + million, this would be his team

Given (10 million, pay a few extra bob for fun)
Richards(30 million)
(30 million)
Shawcross(20 million)
Baines(20 million)
Coleman(15 million)
Milner (30 million)
Barry (25 million)
Jarvis(20 million)
Downing(20 million)
henderson(20 million
carroll (35 million)
doyle(10 million)