Barca FC the idea business model.... Or are they?

[BearWithMe]

Many see Barcelona as the model of how a football club should be run. Bringing players through from the youth ranks and pairing them with international stars brought in to complement their talents. In comparison to teams like Manchester City, Real Madrid, and Chelsea they are held up as the way football should be.

Except it's not quite that clear cut. The Economist*has done a report based on the auditing of Barcelona's accounts by Deloitte. The audit reveals that Barcelona have a financial negative equity which amounts to €71m. The Economist says that due to the Act of Sport in Spain, football clubs are subject to different rules to a normal business and if Barcelona didn't have that*privilege*they would find themselves having to rebalance their assets.

This is a whole lot of jargon but along with other figures it shows the club are a bit of a financial basket case and the perception of them being what all others should aim for is farcical, off the pitch at least.*

The Economist say that although the club only made a loss of €9.3m last year the total club debt is €578.1m, and perhaps even more worryingly, Barcelona are projected to struggle to pay back loans and service debts. They are in an enviable situation where banks almost take pride in lending them money and the €155m loan they took out last year to cover running costs has not yet been repaid.*

Barcelona aren't out on their own in La Liga with this suation, a recent report highlighted the money owed by Spanish clubs to both banks and the*tax man. It led to a Bayern Munich representatative complain that Germany were backing up the Spanish state financially who was backing up La Liga football clubs, making it harder for German teams to triumph in Europe.

He had a point and if UEFA are really serious about Financial Fair Play then surely teams can't be bankrolled by*friendly*banks and the*tax man.*

From SportWitness.

[holywood]

Nothing new here, most if not all Spanish clubs are in a terrible financial state.

From a football perspective, I don't think you can argue that the Barcelona model should be aspired too.

[cloudy12]

As a club they bring in that much money to the city that am sure they will always be bank rolled somehow.

Same with Real Madrid. Their Mayor bought their training ground years ago for an amount that cleared their debts then gave it back to them, because of the money they bring to Madrid.

Not saying it's right but in fairness to Barca it's not like their team is built on buying players. The majority of their team is built on players from their Academy, La Masia, with the odd big money signing.

[PortugueseScouser]

This is another thing that does my head in about FIFA, they continually moan about the english clubs being in debt but Valencia, Malaga and barca have more debt that 70% of the english teams, Italy too with both Milan clubs rumoured to be in about £200-£300m in debt, nothing is ever said by FIFA though as that wouldnt suit thier anti-english agenda

[Silverthorn]

Nothing new here, most if not all Spanish clubs are in a terrible financial state.

From a football perspective, I don't think you can argue that the Barcelona model should be aspired too.

I would look at it another way though Holywood, in that a short period of success, over say a decade or so, could destroy the club for the long term. Yes they look as though they are the model, but at what cost. The obscene wages, or bonus payments, that this particular generation of players wont have to pay, but leaving a mountain of debt that future generations of supporters and owners will have to deal with. Look at Rangers, won a couple of titles, cups and became top dogs in Scotland for the last few years, which the supporters loved lording over Celtic, but now the pigeons have come home to roost, theyre in administration, going to have to sell off everything to pay off creditors, mainly the taxman who is the most vicious one, talks that the league are proposing another 10 point deduction for next season. It could take another 5 to 10 years for them to recover and get back on level terms.

With a debt of half a billion, the only thing keeping Barca afloat from my perspective is that the banks want the gallery that they get from associating themselves with the 'current' top club in Europe. What happens when Iniesta and Xavi retires, how effective will Messi be without the two 2 of the 3 amigos. What happens if he gets injured or decides to move on? What do they do if Real have a group of young players that come through, if Bayern, Inter, AC, or even ourselves come up with a game plan to over come this tika taka. Every period of club domination comes to an end eventually, and at that moment when the baton of one generation is passed onto the next, the real state of the club is revealed, and if the Germans get their way, and a raft of Spanish clubs go under, Barca and Real might not be able to command the same incredible TV rights they do now and then what do they do?

Its a combination in my view, and I would look more to a mix of Barcas academy married to Arsenals financial stability, growing organically from within, spending only what we make and a little extra investment from owners, with very little leaving the club in interest payments or ridiculous dividends payments to shareholders......sound familiar? It should, it sounds like the plan we are putting into place now.

[geralion]

Many see Barcelona as the model of how a football club should be run. Bringing players through from the youth ranks and pairing them with international stars brought in to complement their talents. In comparison to teams like Manchester City, Real Madrid, and Chelsea they are held up as the way football should be.

Except it's not quite that clear cut. The Economist*has done a report based on the auditing of Barcelona's accounts by Deloitte. The audit reveals that Barcelona have a financial negative equity which amounts to €71m. The Economist says that due to the Act of Sport in Spain, football clubs are subject to different rules to a normal business and if Barcelona didn't have that*privilege*they would find themselves having to rebalance their assets.

This is a whole lot of jargon but along with other figures it shows the club are a bit of a financial basket case and the perception of them being what all others should aim for is farcical, off the pitch at least.*

The Economist say that although the club only made a loss of €9.3m last year the total club debt is €578.1m, and perhaps even more worryingly, Barcelona are projected to struggle to pay back loans and service debts. They are in an enviable situation where banks almost take pride in lending them money and the €155m loan they took out last year to cover running costs has not yet been repaid.*

Barcelona aren't out on their own in La Liga with this suation, a recent report highlighted the money owed by Spanish clubs to both banks and the*tax man. It led to a Bayern Munich representatative complain that Germany were backing up the Spanish state financially who was backing up La Liga football clubs, making it harder for German teams to triumph in Europe.

He had a point and if UEFA are really serious about Financial Fair Play then surely teams can't be bankrolled by*friendly*banks and the*tax man.*

From SportWitness.

I posted a link a few weeks ago on an article about debt - the Spanish govt is trying to find a way to write off the massive debts of RM andBarca before FIFA asks them to call their houses in order. Watch that space! The Germans are not happy with this because Spain is seeking bailouts etc for its economy from the EU... And the Germans don't see why they should pay!
The Bundesliga by comparison has very low debt. But then Spain gets all the results! What cost winning!!!

[Thomsy13]

We would have to have a look at the books though, as i simply can't believe Barcelona are in debt. Them and Real Madrid have the biggest fanbase around the world, a stadium with huge capacity, high ticket prices, and i don't think they offer more wages to the players than say Man City or Chelsea.

And about the financial fair play rule. Well, that would be interesting to see that the UEFA could wipe out the top clubs from the competitions, as it seems the best clubs are ran with the highest debt. This rule will be again a nothing rule, and is just a good excuse- as i said already many times- for owners who don't want to spend much money on their team.

I wouldn't be too fussed about those numbers anyway. It is nobody's interest to bankrupt all the best clubs in Europe. It is the same as the nations in general. Almost every nations are in debt in the world, and yet they still live. Even the richest countries are in huge debt. Same is happening to the football clubs, they will just get away with it.

[ForzaAdorjan]

As an Australian I think clubs should look at the Australian League model, clubs run with salary caps but are allowed 2 Marquee players who are exempt from these caps and only 5 Internationals or something like that, it leads to a fairer comp in which most clubs run a profit.

[noeyedear]

It is not only Germany that is proping up Spain and other countries in Europe, GB is paying thru the nose as well.

It's fairly common knowledge that Spanish banks lend/give to Barca/Real and probably several other teams in Spain.

Very difficult for Uefa to come up with any financial fair play rules that provide a level playing field thruout Europe because of the philanthropic nature of Spanish banks. Simarly in Italy some clubs are proped up by industrial companies.

One thing for sure is that any business built on the dodgy foundations that football is built on would eventually collapse. Lets hope we win the league first.

[Balanced]

There should be a EU regulation for all EU based football teams to produce financial reports produced by external accountants/auditors. Maybe UEFA can carry out the auditing and bring about the leveling of Debt.

[BearWithMe]

There should be a EU regulation for all EU based football teams to produce financial reports produced by external accountants/auditors. Maybe UEFA can carry out the auditing and bring about the leveling of Debt.

This should deffinatly happen.

It's ok saying debt is fine as long as it is serviceable but what about the bigger picture? Why should bank in Spain and America etc be allowed to continue lending huge amounts to the likes of Barca and Utd when China and the whole of the EU are having to bail them out.

[ShayGuevara]

Check out the TV revenue Barca and Real get compared to the rest.

Not a level playing field over there and FFP won't make it any better.

[BearWithMe]

Check out the TV revenue Barca and Real get compared to the rest.

Not a level playing field over there and FFP won't make it any better.

Barca and Madrid already well within FFPR. The TV deal they have got is ridiculous, thats why half the clubs have to breed players just to sell them like Valencia Arhletico etc, they can't afford to keep them. The TV is ridiculous but it would take a brave man to try and stop it.

On the flip side I think it's to fair over here, why should a newley promoted club get only a few million less than the league winners?

[Whompy Whomperson]

Check out the TV revenue Barca and Real get compared to the rest.

Not a level playing field over there and FFP won't make it any better.

Will the FFP apply to clubs out of England? it only seems to be the English clubs that are worried about it

I notice its only England that has the home grown rule.

[canuck33]

Shouldn't the model football franchise be Man United? They have a garbage team and still manage to win the currently top ranked league in Europe.

[Whompy Whomperson]

Shouldn't the model football franchise be Man United? They have a garbage team and still manage to win the currently top ranked league in Europe.

thats because they run the FA and have refs on their side I dont think its fair that david gill can run man utd and the FA wheres the fairness in that

and dont you find it funny that season after season after season they always have a run of games in hand they had it when liverpool were chasing the title under rafa they have it again this season and I have seen it other seasons

[BearWithMe]

Will the FFP apply to clubs out of England? it only seems to be the English clubs that are worried about it

I notice its only England that has the home grown rule.

Only English clubs are on course to fail it.

[delmago]

Well..


Valdes - 0

Alves- 28

Pique - 7
Puyol - 0

Abidal -??5??

Busquets - 0
Xavi - 0
Iniesta - 0

Messi - 0
Villa - 30
Pedro - 0

So in total the team cost about 70mil

Then they could sell Iniesta to Man City for about 60mil if they had a talk with them, and it probably wouldnt affect the team too much in the same way selling Messi would... so they could do that

[RedGlass]

As a club they bring in that much money to the city that am sure they will always be bank rolled somehow.

Same with Real Madrid. Their Mayor bought their training ground years ago for an amount that cleared their debts then gave it back to them, because of the money they bring to Madrid.

Not saying it's right but in fairness to Barca it's not like their team is built on buying players. The majority of their team is built on players from their Academy, La Masia, with the odd big money signing.

Now it is, but its not long ago it was filled with the likes Ronaldhino, Henry, Petite, amongst many others. Its only over the last 4-5 seasons that this tide has been turned, that is when the debts would have been run up.

[RedGlass]

Barca and Madrid already well within FFPR. The TV deal they have got is ridiculous, thats why half the clubs have to breed players just to sell them like Valencia Arhletico etc, they can't afford to keep them. The TV is ridiculous but it would take a brave man to try and stop it.

On the flip side I think it's to fair over here, why should a newley promoted club get only a few million less than the league winners?

There is nothing wrong with the tv deals the issues arise because other leagues do not allow teams to have their own tv deals, they`re tied into that leagues tv rights. That hasn`t stopped the likes of R. Madrid & Barca massing massive debts that have been basically overlooked by the banks & Spanish tax man.

[BearWithMe]

There is nothing wrong with the tv deals the issues arise because other leagues do not allow teams to have their own tv deals, they`re tied into that leagues tv rights. That hasn`t stopped the likes of R. Madrid & Barca massing massive debts that have been basically overlooked by the banks & Spanish tax man.

just have to look at the other teams in the Spanish top flight to see there IS an issue with the TV deal over their. if it wasnt for the other clubs Barca and Madrid would have no one to play against, so why should Barca and Madrid get 80% of revenues??? what would happen if the whole league refused to play them?

[holywood]

I would look at it another way though Holywood, in that a short period of success, over say a decade or so, could destroy the club for the long term. Yes they look as though they are the model, but at what cost. The obscene wages, or bonus payments, that this particular generation of players wont have to pay, but leaving a mountain of debt that future generations of supporters and owners will have to deal with. Look at Rangers, won a couple of titles, cups and became top dogs in Scotland for the last few years, which the supporters loved lording over Celtic, but now the pigeons have come home to roost, theyre in administration, going to have to sell off everything to pay off creditors, mainly the taxman who is the most vicious one, talks that the league are proposing another 10 point deduction for next season. It could take another 5 to 10 years for them to recover and get back on level terms.

With a debt of half a billion, the only thing keeping Barca afloat from my perspective is that the banks want the gallery that they get from associating themselves with the 'current' top club in Europe. What happens when Iniesta and Xavi retires, how effective will Messi be without the two 2 of the 3 amigos. What happens if he gets injured or decides to move on? What do they do if Real have a group of young players that come through, if Bayern, Inter, AC, or even ourselves come up with a game plan to over come this tika taka. Every period of club domination comes to an end eventually, and at that moment when the baton of one generation is passed onto the next, the real state of the club is revealed, and if the Germans get their way, and a raft of Spanish clubs go under, Barca and Real might not be able to command the same incredible TV rights they do now and then what do they do?

Its a combination in my view, and I would look more to a mix of Barcas academy married to Arsenals financial stability, growing organically from within, spending only what we make and a little extra investment from owners, with very little leaving the club in interest payments or ridiculous dividends payments to shareholders......sound familiar? It should, it sounds like the plan we are putting into place now.

I actually believe the vast majority of this debt is in fact 'legacy' debt from the barren years of Barcelona. At present the club operates a license to print money with the trophy winnings, vast attendances and commercial income. They are operating sensibly from a fincancial perspective now as well and are obviously reaping the rewards of an effective youth system.

You are right though, their success won't last and it is likely that without adequate planning, they will find themselves in financial turmoil again. They need to shift that debt pile in the good times.

[Thispilgrim]

What if the Spanish economy needs a bail out? Will it affect the clubs? It seems crazy that clubs own billions in debt to the banks and then need the EU bailout fund.

[BearWithMe]

What if the Spanish economy needs a bail out? Will it affect the clubs? It seems crazy that clubs own billions in debt to the banks and then need the EU bailout fund.

exactly my point.

[MishMasch]

I would look at it another way though Holywood, in that a short period of success, over say a decade or so, could destroy the club for the long term. Yes they look as though they are the model, but at what cost. The obscene wages, or bonus payments, that this particular generation of players wont have to pay, but leaving a mountain of debt that future generations of supporters and owners will have to deal with. Look at Rangers, won a couple of titles, cups and became top dogs in Scotland for the last few years, which the supporters loved lording over Celtic, but now the pigeons have come home to roost, theyre in administration, going to have to sell off everything to pay off creditors, mainly the taxman who is the most vicious one, talks that the league are proposing another 10 point deduction for next season. It could take another 5 to 10 years for them to recover and get back on level terms.

With a debt of half a billion, the only thing keeping Barca afloat from my perspective is that the banks want the gallery that they get from associating themselves with the 'current' top club in Europe. What happens when Iniesta and Xavi retires, how effective will Messi be without the two 2 of the 3 amigos. What happens if he gets injured or decides to move on? What do they do if Real have a group of young players that come through, if Bayern, Inter, AC, or even ourselves come up with a game plan to over come this tika taka. Every period of club domination comes to an end eventually, and at that moment when the baton of one generation is passed onto the next, the real state of the club is revealed, and if the Germans get their way, and a raft of Spanish clubs go under, Barca and Real might not be able to command the same incredible TV rights they do now and then what do they do?

Its a combination in my view, and I would look more to a mix of Barcas academy married to Arsenals financial stability, growing organically from within, spending only what we make and a little extra investment from owners, with very little leaving the club in interest payments or ridiculous dividends payments to shareholders......sound familiar? It should, it sounds like the plan we are putting into place now.

That would be the way to go if achievable. Feels a bit like a situation where the sun, the moon and the stars align though. Youth talent and development have been shown as a way forward though so I hope our academy bears some fruit in seasons to come after the considerable effort and resource that's gone into it

[RedGlass]

just have to look at the other teams in the Spanish top flight to see there IS an issue with the TV deal over their. if it wasnt for the other clubs Barca and Madrid would have no one to play against, so why should Barca and Madrid get 80% of revenues??? what would happen if the whole league refused to play them?

I understand the sentiment of what your saying but the reality is most people don`t give a fig for the likes of Bilboa, Atletico or even Valencia, more people do care about Real & Barca & probably don`t want to have to watch the other teams unless they`re playing Real or Barca.

I feel the same about Liverpool, I couldn`t give a monkeys chuff for Bolton, Blackburn, Wigan etc.
I care about Liverpool & there is only 1 club within the UK with bigger support than us & that is Utd. Most of the other clubs get their TV revenue off the backs of playing the likes of LFC, Utd & Arsenal. After all, what would be the viewing figures for Blackburn v Wigan, Swansea v Norwich etc.

[VishRed1]

Many see Barcelona as the model of how a football club should be run. Bringing players through from the youth ranks and pairing them with international stars brought in to complement their talents. In comparison to teams like Manchester City, Real Madrid, and Chelsea they are held up as the way football should be.

Except it's not quite that clear cut. The Economist*has done a report based on the auditing of Barcelona's accounts by Deloitte. The audit reveals that Barcelona have a financial negative equity which amounts to €71m. The Economist says that due to the Act of Sport in Spain, football clubs are subject to different rules to a normal business and if Barcelona didn't have that*privilege*they would find themselves having to rebalance their assets.

This is a whole lot of jargon but along with other figures it shows the club are a bit of a financial basket case and the perception of them being what all others should aim for is farcical, off the pitch at least.*

The Economist say that although the club only made a loss of €9.3m last year the total club debt is €578.1m, and perhaps even more worryingly, Barcelona are projected to struggle to pay back loans and service debts. They are in an enviable situation where banks almost take pride in lending them money and the €155m loan they took out last year to cover running costs has not yet been repaid.*

Barcelona aren't out on their own in La Liga with this suation, a recent report highlighted the money owed by Spanish clubs to both banks and the*tax man. It led to a Bayern Munich representatative complain that Germany were backing up the Spanish state financially who was backing up La Liga football clubs, making it harder for German teams to triumph in Europe.

He had a point and if UEFA are really serious about Financial Fair Play then surely teams can't be bankrolled by*friendly*banks and the*tax man.*

From SportWitness.

But when have people even spoken about their financial mode. Its their schooling of football

[Ben1986]

What if the Spanish economy needs a bail out? Will it affect the clubs? It seems crazy that clubs own billions in debt to the banks and then need the EU bailout fund.

Bayern Munich president Uli Hoeness said the same thing :
Hoeness blasts: Real Madrid, Barcelona spend while Spain is in the S***!

Hoeness continued: "Only Madrid owe more money than all the Bundesliga."

We (Germany) paid hundreds of millions of euros (to Spain) to get out of the
s*** and then the clubs are exempted from paying their debt to pay for stars like
Cristiano (Ronaldo) or Lionel Messi. This cannot be."

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articl...pain-s-3011581

[BearWithMe]

Bayern Munich president Uli Hoeness said the same thing :
Hoeness blasts: Real Madrid, Barcelona spend while Spain is in the S***!

Hoeness continued: "Only Madrid owe more money than all the Bundesliga."

We (Germany) paid hundreds of millions of euros (to Spain) to get out of the
s*** and then the clubs are exempted from paying their debt to pay for stars like
Cristiano (Ronaldo) or Lionel Messi. This cannot be."

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articl...pain-s-3011581

Never knew he said this, but he's spot on. It's just wrong all of it.

[BearWithMe]

But when have people even spoken about their financial mode. Its their schooling of football

We're talking about real life economic issues Vish, not your ball game mate.