What should be done if match fixing corruption uncovered years after an event?

[SureShanksRedemption]

What do you think should be done when evidence points to corruption (match fixing) years after a match has taken place? A good example would be Argentina 1978 versus Peru (article copied below) where it is alleged that Peru agreed to lose by the 4 goals needed for Argies to qualify ahead of Brazil

http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news?...rld_cup_021012

Should the Argies be stripped of their title? Should the Dutch be awarded it? What about Brazil?

What about if it was proved beyond doubt that Inter Milan bribed the ref in 1965 in the European Cup Semi Final? "San Siro, 12 May 1965: a time and a place which are branded across the collective consciousness of Liverpool football club and, so it has always been said, haunted Bill Shankly to his grave." (source, article below)

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/f...ro-794018.html

It is one thing to strip a club of a title they won in recent memory but what about instances of corruption like the above examples? Can anything be done once enough proof has been gathered and is it the obligation of UEFA or FIFA to do something about it? Alternatively, do they just take the easy option and do nothing, in fear of a backlash? (imagine the riots in Argentina if they were stripped of the 78' win!?)

[SureShanksRedemption]

Didn't know about number 6! Maybe if we had relegated them history would have been a little different

Six scandals from football's murky past

1) Calciopoli (2006)
The 2006 match-fixing scandal that rocked Serie A saw Italian giants Juventus relegated and stripped of their title after being accused of being assisted to victory by some less than even-handed officiating. Other clubs were involved, too, and AC Milan, Lazio, Fiorentina and Reggina were all handed points deductions for their part in the scandal.

2) The Fix (1964)
The 1997 film, "The Fix" portrayed the story of the British football betting scandal of 1964. Former Swindon Town player Jimmy Gauld sold his story to the People newspaper, naming three Sheffield Wednesday players, David Layne, Peter Swan and Tony Kay. All four, along with Mansfield Town players Brian Phillips and Sammy Chapman, were handed jail sentences for their involvement in the scandal, with the judge highlighting Gauld as the man who was responsible for involving the other three.

3) Robert Hoyzer (2004)
The German referee was sentenced to two and a half years in prison after admitting accepting bribes to influence matches he was officiating back in 2004. Two Croatian brothers were arrested five years later in connection with this case as part of a larger investigation into match fixing across Europe that has suggested up to 200 games may have been fixed, including more than 30 in Germany alone.


4) Accrington Stanley vs Bury (2008)
No less than five League Two players were banned by the Football Association for betting on the outcome of a game featuring the club they played for. The fixture, a 2-0 defeat against Bury, saw Jay Harris, David Mannix, Robert Williams and captain Peter Cavanagh of Accrington all betting on their team to lose, while Bury's Andrew Mangan bet on his team to win. All five were handed fines and lengthy bans from the game after the FA found them guilty.

5) Marseille (1993)
In 1993 French side Marseille became embroiled in financial irregularities and a match-fixing scandal surrounding their president Bernard Tapie after they won the Ligue Un title. The club was stripped of its title and relegated. Tapie was jailed for six months.

6) Bad Friday, 1915
Two of English football's biggest names were incriminated after Manchester United and Liverpool's fixture on Good Friday 1915 was judged as being fixed. Players from both clubs were involved, placing multiple bets on the result. An FA investigation discovered seven players, three from United and four from Liverpool, were involved and banned them all for life. The 2-0 victory for United that day helped keep them safe from relegation, while Chelsea, just one point below the Red Devils, were relegated. Thankfully, the First Division was expanded and the London club were re-admitted into the top flight.

Source: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opin...cle808662.html

[TheGhostOfDotTeeVeePast]

Hans Segers.

[SureShanksRedemption]

Hans Segers.

Never has a man had a less appropriate first name

[Cullenator]

6) Bad Friday, 1915
The 2-0 victory for United that day helped keep them safe from relegation, while Chelsea, just one point below the Red Devils, were relegated.

Referee: Howard Webb Snr.

[BRISY]

If clubs years later are proven of match fixing to win games and titles then strip the titles from their honours lists and void the season or give the title to that seasons runners up. Im pretty confident that we would keep our 18 titles, im not so sure of certain other sides in england tho, there has been some serious under hand decisions in the premier league era, match fixing is part of the sport but only since the cancer that is money became silly within the sport

[tweepie]

Re number 6, I did a piece in the features forum a couple of years ago on that exact scandal, if anyone fancies a read.
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/threads...l-Bets-Are-Off
Just a shameless bit of self promotion.

As for the topic. I do believe that if a fixed match has a direct impact on a team's progress in a competition that they ultimately win, then they should be stripped of that trophy, but it should not be awarded to the runner's up as you cannot say whether they would have won it against an alternative opponent.

[SureShanksRedemption]

Re number 6, I did a piece in the features forum a couple of years ago on that exact scandal, if anyone fancies a read.
http://forums.liverpoolfc.tv/threads...l-Bets-Are-Off
Just a shameless bit of self promotion.

As for the topic. I do believe that if a fixed match has a direct impact on a team's progress in a competition that they ultimately win, then they should be stripped of that trophy, but it should not be awarded to the runner's up as you cannot say whether they would have won it against an alternative opponent.

Nice swan Tweepie, great read!

Tend to agree that better not to award to the runner up. Using 1978 as an example, Brazil (who were unbeaten) would have gone through to the semi final instead of Argies and can't say Netherlands would have beaten them in the final.

Just seen that Argentina won the FIFA Fair Play Award at the 78' World Cup

[Roshi98]

Personally I think that any titles/trophies won during those season(s) should automatically be stripped from the implicated club. In fact, I would go so far as to say their ENTIRE season should simply be removed from the record all together.

Here in the States we had a pretty serious scandal with the New Orleans Saints American football team putting bounties on opposition player's heads targeting them for deliberate injury. Such actions are HIGHLY illegal, led to season-ending injury to several key players and possibly career ending ones for others. This started in 2009, the year the Saints won the "Superbowl" league championship. In my estimation, the NFL's rather weak response (involving a series of long-term suspensions but nothing permanent) will only encourage other clubs to find ways to implement such atrocious programs. If I were commissioner of the league, I'd have stripped the entire team of the title, forced every coach and player to repay the bonus they received from the title win, and banned the key actors in the scandal FOR LIFE from the league.

This kind of behavior, whether match fixing or the malicious intent to injure players outside the bounds of fair play, MUST be stamped out by the league's governing bodies totally and absolutely. There is no room for compromise in these situations.

[Dirny]

Ban Juventus.

[smokintony]

Hitting the people involved hard, not necessarily the club

[GottaWearShades]

1) Calciopoli (2006)
The 2006 match-fixing scandal that rocked Serie A saw Italian giants Juventus relegated and stripped of their title after being accused of being assisted to victory by some less than even-handed officiating. Other clubs were involved, too, and AC Milan, Lazio, Fiorentina and Reggina were all handed points deductions for their part in the scandal.

Yet Milan were allowed to enter the CL, in blatant breach of UEFA regulations. Easy fix .. send the UEFA people involved onto an island with Patrice Evra and give the CL trophy to whoever was runner up that year.

[Paullfc1976]

It's sad to see corruption in top level sport, but it comes at no surprise.

[GesticularFortitude]

Yet Milan were allowed to enter the CL, in blatant breach of UEFA regulations. Easy fix .. send the UEFA people involved onto an island with Patrice Evra and give the CL trophy to whoever was runner up that year.

That was us in '07, the season after Juve had been relegated etc, was it not?

[InsomniacOlympics]

Retrospective punishment is always controversial. Sport governing bodies then to stay away from it.

It would take a lot of proof to get action taken against corruption found many years later, the earlier you can prove it the better.

[GottaWearShades]

That was us in '07, the season after Juve had been relegated etc, was it not?

Oh yes, so it was.

So that will be 6 for us, yes?

[GesticularFortitude]

Oh yes, so it was.

So that will be 6 for us, yes?

Certainly will be.

[Dirny]

Oh yes, so it was.

So that will be 6 for us, yes?

I wouldn't want to win a trophy like that, it would be meaningless.

[RogerHuntelaar]

The trophy that the corrupt team has won shouldn't count and that's it, apart from individual sanctions and santions for the organisations involved.