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Thread: Mark my words: This Will Be A Season To Remember.

  1. #31  
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    The evidence is there. Ferguson and his allies, pull the strings and control the referees. There is no doubt in my mind that premiership football is corrupt, it just needs somebody to have the bottle to stick their head above the parapit and identify what is going on.
    Liverpool will not get a decision this season and will never win anything domestically while this order prevails
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  2. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Cymru- View Post
    Before Mascherano came, Gerrard wasn't playing as the defensive midfielder. Sissoko was. If we where to play Alonso and Gerrard as defensive midfielders (which we didn't), then we would have leaked goals.

    Isn't smart enough? That isn't his role within a team...

    I never said he was being wasted as a deep player...

    We actually loaned Mascherano for an initial 18 months, before buying him. So we didn't spend all the money instantly, but when he was borderline worldclass.

    When we bought Lucas, Rafa Benitez said that he was an attacking midfielder who could score goals.

    You weren't talking about getting rid of Alonso. You said...

    Again, do you have a source prooving that Stevie said it was a mistake to break up the partnership of him and Alonso?

    So you don't think Mascherano improved us? If he didn't, then why where the fans singing this song:
    Again, good response. I appreciate you taking the time to write and I'm learning from this exchange. I think we're getting off topic but any good conversation jumps around anyway so if you want to keep going that's cool. I want to mention too that some of the things we've seemed to disagree about aren't mutually exclusive, but we can insert caveats ad nauseum and cloud the points we're trying to make. Still, I look at this as clarifying opinions and understand we have basic disagreements at the heart of our arguments.

    While I've played and followed football for nearly 40 years now all over the world, I understand there is always more to learn. Besides I have to work (which also explains my delay in answering this latest post) so I can't devote 24 hours a day to football even when my heart wishes I could. That's why I am very harsh to posters that just write out "that's crap" as opposed to having an exchange with someone, like you, who can... "describe the crap" - in detail. A quick response is too often used as an excuse to feel superior and therefore dismiss anything and everything that person says as ignorant. But eventually we're all going to disagree about something with every single person we ever meet. So that can only separate "us", makes both sides dumber, and never solves any dispute (whoever us is - of course here, 2 people that obviously love LFC or we wouldn't be taking the time). The flip side of that is that some see a long post and think the writer must feel superior and or the writer is "preachy". I may be brash at times but I think ego is read into threads by the reader more often than is meant when expressing opinions.

    That said:

    I agree that Masch is head and shoulders above Momo, without reservation, in every way - except actual height . I agree that Masch was an excellent player for us most of the time. I agree that in order to be recruited so heavily by Barca when they were consolidating their status as the "best" club in the world is proof well above my own football IQ. Also, I think we agree that Masch and Xabi are totally different stylistically and therefore, tactically, require different field placement in different systems. I think both our descriptions of their styles (field general/creator vs. industrious/destroyer) are accurate.

    I'd add too that Mascherano was much faster than Xabi so he could cover more ground and make those sometimes brilliant sometimes reckless challenges that a pure defensive midfielder has to make. Also, when Stevie played centrally and more advanced he and Torres were a very scary combination.

    But I disagree (and maybe it's just the wording) that "we'd leak goals". I read that as if you're saying the floodgates would open where you may mean that as just a few more goals conceded. Either way, I still feel that the creativity of the Gerrard/Xabi combination centrally with a true SS in front would create more goals than it would concede. The "smart enough" comment was really to point out the difference between Gerrard and Masch and make the argument that I think Stevie would know when to stay back and when to go forward where Masch is really a "sit at home" player. In a way you're agreeing with the distinction when you point out that his role is different, but it's obvious we disagree with what the result would be. Call it a communication breakdown, but anyone can parse words until the central argument is lost in syntax.

    My argument was and always has been for Stevie in the central midfield position because it would make for a more offensive minded strategy. I don't think there's a disagreement there either except that you're saying having Stevie higher is "better". I would agree with that if it were true that he went into the amf position, but Stevie played on the right for a long time before he was put back into the attacking mid role and so he was handicapped severely. He was very unhappy about that and though I don't have a source saying exactly those words, I don't think anyone can make the argument that his feelings were not well known. Yes, he said later that he'd play anywhere the manager asked, but he'd often also say in the same breath that his "preffered" position was central midfield. But that's because he's an honourable steward of LFC and has never been very vocal, critical or disruptive.

    With Stevie on the side we were having a really hard time getting goals and were relying on Luis Garcia (who left right before Torres came) for a spark in the SS position when he was more suited to play wing or AMF. Meanwhile, Rafa was trying to sign Pablo Aimar after being unable to lure David Silva to Anfield. Either signing would have left Gerrard on the right, again, decreasing his influence. We got Lucas, who I love. I agree Rafa thought of him as an attacking mid. But that was Rafas mistake and I stand by my former comment that very few people who considered recruiting Lucas thought he had the right skillset for the European game at AMF. Yes, people were calling him "the new Gerrard" but that's just media bull. Marko Marin was "the next Messi". Nani was "the next C. Ronaldo". Many people made the very same mistake when assessing Jon Obi Mikel. Look at how inlfluential Henderson and Adam were when they played elsewhere in similar positions and how unpolished they look at a club with a higher level. It's a great credit to Lucas that he worked so hard on his overall game and now is considered a very good defensive mid with good attacking qualities. I also credit Rafa with playing him so he could develop. But even then Rafa was still trying to bring in more central/defensive mids - Barry for example.

    One of the biggest and longest arguments of the time was "How can Rafa take Stevie out of the middle?" I'm stunned that you have a memory block on that when it was such a major discussion point when we were going after Masch. Whether it was Momo, Masch, or Lucas is really not the point though because Rafa did move Stevie out of the center. You say for the good. I disagree because your argument doesn't take into account that other player that we would have bought if we didn't get Masch - if we didn't choose to go more defensively. Again, that's the point: the purchase of Mascherano made us stronger defensively but stifled our offense by taking our most creative player out of his best position. And again, that is where you and I disagree. I was not the only one that wanted a winger and was confused (but strangely happy) about the purchase of more and more central/defensive midfielders.

    That has nothing to do with whether or not Masch was on loan or if it was a good price for him since we can just as easily say we could have set up a structured deal for someone else. One fact does not nulify the possibility of the other.

    As far as fans singing a song as proof. Good on you but really, get a couple lagers in any fan and we'll write songs about anything from prawn sandwiches to facial hair (i.e. Rafa's ghoatie).
    Last edited by Neverman; 30-10-12 at 21:41.
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  3. #33  
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    Early April Fool's joke this thread?
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  4. #34  
    striker shahid is offline Armchair supporter
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    we didn't play well
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverman View Post
    ASIDE:
    1. Players of the season so far: Johnson and Allen

    2. Players that can't play this system: Downing, maybe Enrique, and Henderson (though Enrique and Hendo deserve the year imo)

    3. Players that are underperforming: Reina (sorry Pepe but you know it too), Gerrard, Cole, Pacheco, Borini (give him time)

    4. Players we need: 1 top world class real goal threat so Suarez can move to the left. a left back

    5. Youth players to identify: someone to take over for Carra next year - Agger, Skrtel, and Coates are a very very good top 3.

    6. Players to drop immediately even if we take the loss: Carroll, Downing, Cole, Wilson, Doni, Pacheco

    Peec and donuts.
    UPDATE:
    1. Add Luis for his consistency, drive, and the many times I've just said "wow" while watching his skill.

    2. Downing, Pacheco (surprisingly since he came from Barca youth if I remember correctly), Cole,

    3. Nuri Sahin (needs to run more and increse defensive pressure)

    4. I've completely taken a 180 degree turn on Suarez up front. Forget about finding a central striker and moving Luis to the side. He's scoring like he did at Ajax when he was up front and not performing as well when he plays Internationally on the wing.

    Enrique has proven he's got it on the left, coming back from injury stronger than he's ever been for us. With Johnson able to switch if needed and Wisdom, Kelly (when he's back), Flanagan, and Robinson, we are just fine in the wing back position for a long time to come.

    We need 1 bona-fide winger with pace, creativity, guile, speed, and scoring ability - Erickson although an AMF by trade would fit perfectly, but there are several names worth mentioning but haqve been mentioned ad nauseum (theo walcott anyone?)

    5. With Wisdom, now Kelly has competition on the right and either of these young men can move to the central position. Right now they are odds on favorites to take the 4th CB slot when Carra retires. NOTE: In the original I was not trying to suggest Carra should be replaced next year but that we need to be training someone so we aren't panicking if Jamie's skills hit an age "wall" all of a sudden. Full respect to our #23, an Anfield legend with a long history and a longer future with the club on and off the pitch.

    6. No change:

    Carroll - doesn't want to play for LFC like he wanted it for boyhood club Newcastle, at least that's what his lack of effort shows

    Downing - has had every chance to show himself but even coming off the bench I don't think he provides the spark like a player like Assaidi, Suso, Hendo or Shelvey might/have.

    Cole - he does very well in France so I think it's really just a bad match for his skillset in the PL. Even if we pay half his wages, he'd be better off playing on the mainland and we can't really trust him to rally us off the bench. All the skills in the world but there's just "something" missing.

    Wilson - might not deserve to be here as he really hasn't gotten a run out yet with the #1's. Could be a slow developer but he obviously is a good cb with a future. I just wonder how long he'll have before BR decides to offload him let him get regular playing time at a lower club.

    Doni - where is he anyway? Out of sight, out of mind. Just resign Jones as our backup for 3-5 years and work on the youngsters.

    Pacheco - little effort, pales on the pitch next to suso and sterling - looks like a young Joe Cole: skilled but no results.
    Last edited by Neverman; 19-11-12 at 17:37.
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  6. #36  
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    In regards to #4 above, if the formation is going to have 3 at the back and wing backs, then it seems to me our best formation on the return of lucas has Stevie pushing into a "floating" amf more.
    ------------------------Luis--------------------------
    -------------------------------------Sterling---------
    ------------------Gerrard----------------------------
    ------------Allen--------------Lucas----------------
    Jose--------------------------------------------Glen
    -------------Agger-----Skrtel-------Wisdom------
    ------------------------Pepe-------------------------

    I mean why not?! I'd like to see our best goal creator in the position to create even more. And look at how stout that defense is...

    But also with the return of Lucas we bolster the deep dmf position and let Allen's quick touches and turns set up (*), Jose or Glen as well as the front 3. This is my prefered setup with the players we have currently. More traditional. A little more compact for quick touches. (*) = Henderson/Sahin/Shelvey/ or a goal scoring midfielder after January.



    ------------------------Luis-------------------------
    ------------------Gerrard----------Sterling-------
    --------------------------------(*)-------------------
    ---------------Allen---------------------------------
    ---Jose----------------Lucas--------------Glen---
    ------------------Agger-----Skrtel-----------------
    ------------------------Pepe------------------------

    One of the best strengths of LFC in it's present iteration is team intelligence imo. They've been able to focus through a lot of distraction and unjust results to learn a system relatively quickly. So the team will actually get better now as more players start to "get it" (like Henderson and Jose both showed us this week) by giving BR more feasible options. Options are good because we can rest players more often if we can rely on the bench to provide them.

    Options = coachs tool box to fix a poorly running match.
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  7. #37  
    Kloppmania is offline Academy prospect
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    We play great football, but...

    Season to remember? Yes, for total inconsistency. One step forward, one step back. No 'genuine' progress.
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  8. #38  
    Kloppmania is offline Academy prospect
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    A win against West Ham on Sunday will give us back to back league wins, so after tonight, and if we do win on Sunday, we're slowly getting there...
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  9. #39  
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    Why we should be fairly cheerful this morning.

    We are in Europe. The Premier league Champions are not.

    We are now in a competition where we can add further humiliation to the European Champions.

    Our defence should give us confidence. If we dont have a pairing of Agger and Skrtel, we have reserves such as Carra and Coates to call on. Also, Reina looks alot better at the moment and Jones did a fine job in his absence.

    Our domestic fixtures are 'winnable'. No easy games, but we should hope to pick up good points in the next few weeks.

    January is getting closer.

    Henderson, although there will still be reservations about him, is looking improved.

    Enrique is back to his best. In fact better than ever.

    We have Suarez. One of the leagues top scorers and one of the most exciting forwards in the world.

    The likes of Suso and Sterling (the list is very good) who are young and getting first team games is fantastic for our future.

    We outplayed the Italians on their home ground. Even our very best teams have struggled to do that in the past.

    Any more?
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  10. #40  
    TheSoundLady is online now Optimistic Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus78 View Post
    Why we should be fairly cheerful this morning.

    We are in Europe. The Premier league Champions are not.

    We are now in a competition where we can add further humiliation to the European Champions.

    Our defence should give us confidence. If we dont have a pairing of Agger and Skrtel, we have reserves such as Carra and Coates to call on. Also, Reina looks alot better at the moment and Jones did a fine job in his absence.

    Our domestic fixtures are 'winnable'. No easy games, but we should hope to pick up good points in the next few weeks.

    January is getting closer.

    Henderson, although there will still be reservations about him, is looking improved.

    Enrique is back to his best. In fact better than ever.

    We have Suarez. One of the leagues top scorers and one of the most exciting forwards in the world.

    The likes of Suso and Sterling (the list is very good) who are young and getting first team games is fantastic for our future.

    We outplayed the Italians on their home ground. Even our very best teams have struggled to do that in the past.

    Any more?
    Joe Allen was amazing.

    If we can somehow beat West Ham without Luis - and with a back 6 like ours, and a combo of Lucas-Allen in the midfield, we can beat anyone on our day - then the confidence will be very high for the 5 subsequent games against Sunderland, QPR, Stoke, Villa, and Fulham - which are all winnable - not easy but winnable. If we can win 6 or 7 of this run of 7, one of them is already won, we won't just be in the race for the top 4 - we'll be actually inside the top 4 I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by BinaryMan100110101 View Post
    We play great football, but...

    Season to remember? Yes, for total inconsistency. One step forward, one step back. No 'genuine' progress.
    Awful start points-wise. Since the first 5 games, our form has us in the top 4 in the league (form table). We won our last 2 home games back to back after not winning back to back home games in a long time. This is progress.
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  11. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by BinaryMan100110101 View Post
    We play great football, but...

    Season to remember? Yes, for total inconsistency. One step forward, one step back. No 'genuine' progress.
    Quote Originally Posted by BinaryMan100110101 View Post
    A win against West Ham on Sunday will give us back to back league wins, so after tonight, and if we do win on Sunday, we're slowly getting there...

    Inconsistency is to be expected when completely rebuilding the system. We’ve gone from a traditional English style to a more modern international possession based style. That’s a big jump even without all the other things going on surrounding the club this year. It’s very similar to how Jurgen Klinsmann and Joachim Low remade the German International team. SIDENOTE: Most say it was really Low's system, but the Germans would never have accepted the change unless Klinnsman was in the big chair with his history and fame leading the way. There it took longer - probably simply because of the breaks between training sessions and matches that accompany national competitions - and was met with a massive amount of skepticism and criticism. Just as in Germany, some people won’t recognize progress until it is patently obvious with a series of crushing wins.

    IMO “genuine progress” is being made almost every match so I have to completely disagree with you there. Any team is going to have a few hiccups under these circumstances and some days we see players "fall out" while others "show something" (as they say in Germany). For instance, a month ago Henderson looked hopeless, but lately it's obvious he's had his "A-ha!" moment where things started to make sense to him. Now the question on him is will he continue to put the puzzle pieces together and grow in this system or not. With his skillset, I don't see any reason why he can't become a very good player as long as his mental game keeps growing - at his age, it should.

    I like, however, that Brendan Rodgers seems to see the problems immediately and isn’t afraid or too egotistical to change his setups or personnel immediately when something isn’t clicking. While there are so many different aspects to being a good manager, on match day, this quality is probably the most important. It's the coaches and managers that have to recognize and communicate strategic changes, especially at the half. On-field "coaches" as BR calls Steven, can help fix individual problems during a match by pointing out problems, but a full strategical fix is totally outside their pervue or their ability to implement while the clock is ticking. Not to pick on Rafa again, but that was a big bone of contention many supporters had with him – that he was stubborn and stuck to his plan whether it was working or not. But with all due credit, most of the time, he was right to do so as he’d devised a winning system in which he had faith, and which would in most instances still give us a chance of winning. BR has no such qualms and while he'll mention tactical mistakes, it's obvious the buck stops with him.
    Last edited by Neverman; 13-12-12 at 20:45.
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  12. #42  
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    Seamus
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus78 View Post
    Why we should be fairly cheerful this morning.

    We are in Europe. The Premier league Champions are not.

    We are now in a competition where we can add further humiliation to the European Champions.
    Honestly, I could care less what City does or doesn’t do unless it has some effect on LFC. Last year, we demolished them in the league but against us Joe Hart had what may be the best match of his career, standing on his head to deny us 3 or 4 more goals. This year, we were obviously the better side but for a couple defensive blunders by the two Martins. (sorry for bringing that up)

    I reserve my ire for thuggish players who go out to injure the other team’s players and the managers that defend what they label their “style”. That to me shows a total lack of respect for the beautiful game as well as showing they have no honor. A perfect example would be one of last year’s derbies. You expect some rough tackles but Felaini and Peinaar (as well as Kyrgiakos (sorry Soto) were all guilty of intent to injure. I hate De Jong for his kung fu kick to Xabi’s chest, Gattuso for his constant knee breaker tackles, and one of the reasons I rate Mascherano lower than his skills deserve is because of some of his moments of insanity on the field that would be considered criminal assault if done on the street.

    In particular I truly despise John Terry on and off the field and have no moral compunction saying so because it’s all in the public record. From a famous tryst with a fellow players wife and refusing to apologize for it, consistently climbing on defenders for trash goals, constant kicks to the ankles and knees to the hamstring of opposing players, disrespectful referee intimidation, an overall lack of empathy, and a massive sense of self importance and ego that won’t allow him to ever admit he’s wrong – I find him a horrible person and a terrible example to English football. IMO he should have been stripped of the captains arm band much earlier and if he was called on his constant fouling he would be nowhere near as effective a defender as he’s touted to be. Yet somehow he’s garnered support and imo preferential treatment (not referring to Lord Ouseley btw)

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus78 View Post
    Our defence should give us confidence. If we dont have a pairing of Agger and Skrtel, we have reserves such as Carra and Coates to call on. Also, Reina looks alot better at the moment and Jones did a fine job in his absence.
    Duh.

    – just kidding. Yeah, I agree and have said as much about our defense already in this post. I do however hope the whispers I’ve heard about Coates wanting to leave are just press people making up stories. That kid is going to be a dominant player in a few years time and though lacking some speed, is very good already.

    Pepe seems focused again and is certainly playing well. I’m very happy to hear that BR has said for the record that Reina is going nowhere. Maybe this will keep Wenger’s mouth shut about it finally – but probably not since Arse seems to have no problem talking about other team’s players. It’s kind of funny actually because he always says that he won’t talk about other team’s players but then immediately does so. It’s kind of like when someone says “I’m not a racist but…” You know something racist is about to come out of their mouth. DISCLAIMER: For the mentally deficient internet brain trust out there, no, I am not calling AW a racist. Read what I wrote again if you got that impression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus78 View Post
    Our domestic fixtures are 'winnable'. No easy games, but we should hope to pick up good points in the next few weeks.
    Many say there are no easy games in the PL. Many say any game is winnable. My opinion is very clear: I expect LFC to win every single match they play no matter who or where they’re playing – darn it.

    SIDENOTE: And no matter how good the team gets, we, as fans, should have no compunction in pointing out any defects we see. It’s the duty we owe to the club just as to our government. As someone famous somewhere once said “Even a van Gogh can be critiqued.” BUT, it’s our responsibility to do so in a constructive, not destructive, way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus78 View Post
    January is getting closer.
    Actually according to the Mayan calendar January 2013 doesn’t exist… scary – not.

    And just for the heck of it I want to ask: Why do so many people think something bad is going to happen because the Mayan calendar ends on that date? The Mayan’s weren’t predicting the end of the world. They were amazing cartographers of the heavenly bodies and their calendar is consistent with the positioning of the stars in the night sky over thousands of years. Though we don’t know if the Mayan’s understood the science, we know today that there is a very good reason it does end. (drum roll) The axis of the Earth is very slowly and constantly tilting so that over thousands of years our perspective of the heavens shifts in accordance. Whoa! Science dude… like wow. If you like to “nerd out” like me or if you never lost your childhood wonder you can go look this up and see that your Zodiac sign is not the same as when you were born as we are moving through the current Epoch. So what would the Mayan’s have done to get ready for the end of the Epoch? Get a new calendar - just like we do every year.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus78 View Post
    Henderson, although there will still be reservations about him, is looking improved.

    Enrique is back to his best. In fact better than ever.

    We have Suarez. One of the leagues top scorers and one of the most exciting forwards in the world.
    My basic comments about Henderson (above and in other threads): 1. He started out dreadful in this system. 2. He deserves a year to show he can adjust. 3. He’s physically talented. 4. He’s adjusting to his second new system is as many years at LFC. 5. After being “the man” at his previous gig he now has to adapt to better teammates. 6. His ability to take in the mental aspects of the game is lagging behind some of his teammates. 7. His position is arguably the toughest to perfect in any system since by it’s nature he must have constant 360 degree awareness. 8. He took over a match off the bench and showed major promise by sparking his team though others got more credit for their play that day. 9. He needs to keep learning to bring consistency to his game. 10. He has nowhere to go but up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus78 View Post
    The likes of Suso and Sterling (the list is very good) who are young and getting first team games is fantastic for our future.
    Yeah, if I weren’t a fan of LFC I’d be jealous of the potential. Let’s take a moment to look at that list:

    Young players that have at least gotten some time (including this summer):
    Sinclair (16 – actually I’m not sure if he’s played yet but…), Morgan (18), Yesil (18), Flanagan (19), Coady (19), Pacheco (21), Kelly (22)

    Young players with significant playing time:
    Suso (19), Wisdom (19), Shelvey (20), Borini (21), Henderson (22), Coates (22)

    Young players that are our preferred starters:
    Sterling (18), Allen (22)

    Let’s not forget some players who are considered veterans are still pretty young:
    Assaidi (24), Sahin (24)*, Suarez (25), Lucas (25)

    And our defense is in their prime right now:
    Enrique (26), Skrtel (27), Agger (28), Johnson: (28 – but can run like a 20 year old)

    This is one of the major reasons why I think we’re going in the right direction. Previously, our youth players weren’t getting any chances unless something went dreadfully wrong in the first team. That’s changing now and will attract young players here that we can develop with a manager who is a good teacher and disciplinarian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus78 View Post
    We outplayed the Italians on their home ground. Even our very best teams have struggled to do that in the past.
    LFC vs Italian clubs in European competition:
    9 wins, 7 draws, 9 loses – with a goal differential of -1.
    Though this doesn’t take into account whether they are home or away, it’s still a pretty “eh” record.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus78 View Post
    Any more?
    Yeah.

    Our manager is showing he’s not only a good tactician but he’s an excellent communicator and demands respect and progress from his players.

    P.S. Good post. I think I went overboard but since I haven’t had time for a while…
    Last edited by Neverman; 13-12-12 at 20:52.
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  13. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverman View Post
    Seamus


    Honestly, I could care less what City does or doesn’t do unless it has some effect on LFC. Last year, we demolished them in the league but against us Joe Hart had what may be the best match of his career, standing on his head to deny us 3 or 4 more goals. This year, we were obviously the better side but for a couple defensive blunders by the two Martins. (sorry for bringing that up)

    I reserve my ire for thuggish players who go out to injure the other team’s players and the managers that defend what they label heir “style”. That to me shows a total lack of respect for the beautiful game as well as showing they have no honor. A perfect example would be one of last year’s derbies. You expect some rough tackles but Felaini and Peinaar (as well as Kyrgiakos (sorry Soto) were all guilty of intent to injure. I hate De Jong for his kung fu kick to Xabi’s chest, Gattuso for his constant knee breaker tackles, and one of the reasons I rate Mascherano lower than his skills deserve is because of some of his moments of insanity on the field that would be considered criminal assault if done on the street.

    In particular I truly despise John Terry on and off the field and have no moral compunction saying so because it’s all in the public record. From a famous tryst with a fellow players wife and refusing to apologize for it, consistently climbing on defenders for trash goals, constant kicks to the ankles and knees to the hamstring of opposing players, disrespectful referee intimidation, an overall lack of empathy, and a massive sense of self importance and ego that won’t allow him to ever admit he’s wrong – I find him a horrible person and a terrible example to English football. IMO he should have been stripped of the captains arm band much earlier and if he was called on his constant fouling he would be nowhere near as effective a defender as he’s touted to be. Yet somehow he’s garnered support and imo preferential treatment (not referring to Lord Ouseley btw)



    Duh.

    – just kidding. Yeah, I agree and have said as much about our defense already in this post. I do however hope the whispers I’ve heard about Coates wanting to leave are just press people making up stories. That kid is going to be a dominant player in a few years time and though lacking some speed, is very good already.

    Pepe seems focused again and is certainly playing well. I’m very happy to hear that BR has said for the record that Reina is going nowhere. Maybe this will keep Wenger’s mouth shut about it finally – but probably not since Arse seems to have no problem talking about other team’s players. It’s kind of funny actually because he always says that he won’t talk about other team’s players but then immediately does so. It’s kind of like when someone says “I’m not a racist but…” You know something racist is about to come out of their mouth. DISCLAIMER: For the mentally deficient internet brain trust out there, no, I am not calling AW a racist. Read what I wrote again if you got that impression.



    Many say there are no easy games in the PL. Many say any game is winnable. My opinion is very clear: I expect LFC to win every single match they play no matter who or where they’re playing – darn it.

    SIDENOTE: And no matter how good the team gets, we, as fans, should have no compunction in pointing out any defects we see. It’s the duty we owe to the club just as to our government. As someone famous somewhere once said “Even a van Gogh can be critiqued.” BUT, it’s our responsibility to do so in a constructive, not destructive, way.



    Actually according to the Mayan calendar January 2013 doesn’t exist… scary – not.

    And just for the heck of it I want to ask: Why do so many people think something bad is going to happen because the Mayan calendar ends on that date? The Mayan’s weren’t predicting the end of the world. They were amazing cartographers of the heavenly bodies and their calendar is consistent with the positioning of the stars in the night sky over thousands of years. Though we don’t know if the Mayan’s understood the science, we know today that there is a very good reason it does end. (drum roll) The axis of the Earth is very slowly and constantly tilting so that over thousands of years our perspective of the heavens shifts in accordance. Whoa! Science dude… like wow. If you like to “nerd out” like me or if you never lost your childhood wonder you can go look this up and see that your Zodiac sign is not the same as when you were born as we move are moving through the current Epoch. So what would the Mayan’s have done to get ready for the end of the Epoch? Get a new calendar - just like we do every year.



    My basic comments about Henderson (above and in other threads): 1. He started out dreadful in this system. 2. He deserves a year to show he can adjust. 3. He’s physically talented. 4. He’s adjusting to his second new system is as many years at LFC. 5. After being “the man” at his previous gig he now has to adapt to better teammates. 6. His ability to take in the mental aspects of the game is lagging behind some of his teammates. 7. His position is arguably the toughest to perfect in any system since by it’s nature he must have constant 360 degree awareness. 8. He took over a match off the bench and showed major promise by sparking his team though others got more credit for their play that day. 9. He needs to keep learning to bring consistency to his game. 10. He has nowhere to go but up.



    Yeah, if I weren’t a fan of LFC I’d be jealous of the potential. Let’s take a moment to look at that list:

    Young players that have at least gotten some time (including this summer):
    Sinclair (16 – actually I’m not sure if he’s played yet but…), Morgan (18), Yesil (18), Flanagan (19), Coady (19), Pacheco (21), Kelly (22)

    Young players with significant playing time:
    Suso (19), Wisdom (19), Shelvey (20), Borini (21), Henderson (22), Coates (22)

    Young players that are our preferred starters:
    Sterling (18), Allen (22)

    Let’s not forget some players who are considered veterans are still pretty young:
    Assaidi (24), Sahin (24)*, Suarez (25), Lucas (25)

    And our defense is in their prime right now:
    Enrique (26), Skrtel (27), Agger (28), Johnson: (28 – but can run like a 20 year old)

    This is one of the major reasons why I think we’re going in the right direction. Previously, our youth players weren’t getting any chances unless something went dreadfully wrong in the first team. That’s changing now and will attract young players here that we can develop with a manager who is a good teacher and disciplinarian.



    LFC vs Italian clubs in European competition:
    9 wins, 7 draws, 9 loses – with a goal differential of -1.
    Though this doesn’t take into account whether they are home or away, it’s still a pretty “eh” record.



    Yeah.

    Our manager is showing he’s not only a good tactician but he’s an excellent communicator and demands respect and progress from his players.

    P.S. Good post. I think I went overboard but since I haven’t had time for a while…
    Excellent reply. Cheers mate!
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    The Sound Lady
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSoundLady View Post
    Joe Allen was amazing.
    I thought Allen had better matches this year, but he did pretty well. He’ll be great moving forward now that Lucas is back (YEAHHHH!!!!!!!!!). I have described Allen as the player who makes the pass before the pass, meaning he plays a great ball to the guy who gets the assist. That shows me his mind is working a few steps ahead of the situation unfolding and is a fantastic sign of a great football mind. And he’s only 22!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSoundLady View Post
    If we can somehow beat West Ham without Luis - and with a back 6 like ours, and a combo of Lucas-Allen in the midfield, we can beat anyone on our day - then the confidence will be very high for the 5 subsequent games against Sunderland, QPR, Stoke, Villa, and Fulham - which are all winnable - not easy but winnable. If we can win 6 or 7 of this run of 7, one of them is already won, we won't just be in the race for the top 4 - we'll be actually inside the top 4 I believe.
    Done.

    With Lucas back I think we can now move Stevie up where he’s best. Then when we get another wing/forward we have the thin midfield triangle under the wide forward triangle and a stout back line with speed on the wings.

    ---------------Suarez---------------
    ---*------------------------Sterling
    ------------------Gerrard-----------
    ---------Allen----------------------
    Enrique------Lucas------Johnson
    ----------Agger----Skrtel---------
    -----------------Pepe---------------

    * = (hopefully) Erickson or Sanchez

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSoundLady View Post
    Awful start points-wise. Since the first 5 games, our form has us in the top 4 in the league (form table). We won our last 2 home games back to back after not winning back to back home games in a long time. This is progress.
    Against the Hamsters we played pretty well but with a few major blunders. It was obvious the pitch was very hard as the ball was bouncing very high. That gives WH a great home advantage as they’re used to it and build their team with size and height to maximize it tactically.

    Our midfield didn’t look great in the center, but I think the turf and the air ball style WH played had a lot to do with that. A couple things worth mentioning:

    To our esteemed iconic captain: I love you man but please stop the over-reaction when the pass doesn’t get to you on your run. You’re the captain and the role model for these kids and the last thing we need is to see that attitude start to creep back into our youngsters play (which was there during the summer but that Mr. Rodgers (ha ha Mr. Rodgers) did a fantastic job of breaking them of). That guy knows he barely missed your run and at that moment all he wants is a redo, so suck it up and get back into position.

    Joe Cole: Dude, when you’re making the run into the box, don’t stop! I believe it was in the first half that Joe Allen was bringing the ball up to the box on the left central and Cole, if he’d taken two more steps, would have had perfect space between 4 Hamsters at around 12 meters from goal and central for a snap shot. That’s how Barca gets so many of their goals and if Allen really is our Xavi, then Cole needs to play the Messi part at that moment – that’s how Joe got his goal btw – by moving into the “hole”. When Cole stopped just as Allen was about to slip that pass in (imo to try to make space for Allen btw) Allen had to stop dead and turn his back to goal and shield the ball. That led to the loss of possession instead of a great goal chance. Cole could have had the brace! Get a little more selfish when you’re that close to goal and we’ll all be better off for it. Otherwise, good match vs. those monstrous defenders.

    Some might say my addressing the players seems disrespectful, but sometimes even the best need someone to remind them of the basics. Yeah, like they read the posts here.
    Last edited by Neverman; 13-12-12 at 20:56.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwarde View Post
    Early April Fool's joke this thread?
    paranoid much?
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    Quote Originally Posted by striker shahid View Post
    we didn't play well
    When, where, how?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus78 View Post
    Excellent reply. Cheers mate!
    Thanks mate. If you put in the time, I will too (when I have it).
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulcannell View Post
    The evidence is there. Ferguson and his allies, pull the strings and control the referees. There is no doubt in my mind that premiership football is corrupt, it just needs somebody to have the bottle to stick their head above the parapit and identify what is going on.
    Liverpool will not get a decision this season and will never win anything domestically while this order prevails
    Though this has almost nothing to do with the topic of the thread, I'll say this: It is fundamentally wrong for a representative of a club competing in the FA competitions to be a board member of the FA. ONLY if each club has a place at the table can it be considered ethical or fair. Even though I agree with you that ManUre get all the calls, even if they didn't, just the perceived impropriety inherent in the present situation should be enough to remedy it.

    1. Analysis by Opta Sports of Premier League matches played between 2010 and 2012 found on average that 79 seconds more time was played in matches where Manchester United were losing.
    2. This season Manchester United have been awarded 5 penalty kicks for and 0 against - LFC has 0 for and 3 against.*
    3. Manchester United have received 0 red cards and 26 yellows. Liverpool 2 red cards and 23 yellow.

    * Doing a search on penalties it was very easy to find article after article about how many penalties ManU received compared to other clubs. If you look at only that, there is no advantage evident (except this year of course). But if one spends a little time and effort one will find that ManU get very few penalties or red cards called against them at key moments. Conversely, more free kicks, penalties, and red cardes are called against teams in matches against Manu than against other teams. Moooooo supporters will tout that it's because of the "dominance" of their team over their competition. While that certainly can account for some increase, the numbers, in my opinion, are too great for this to be the dominant factor. That leaves me to believe that (probably subconscious) benefit of the doubt is given to Manchester United on a regular basis.
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    Happy New Year! Take THAT Mayans!

    To each and every LFC supporter, legend, player, manager, scout, support staff, et al. I wish nothing but success, health, and happiness - even the haters.

    After half a season under new manager Mr. Rodgers we've seen some ups and downs: some amazing beauty and some monumental blunders. I stand firmly on my initial remarks that this will be a season to remember and halfway through it, I see many reasons to be excited with the future. But none of them are new so I won't rehash them in this post. I will only point out a few concerns that need addressing.

    1. We need another top choice sideback who can play left AND right.

    With Enrique hurt for the second time this year we need to look into a top side back who plays mainly on the left but can also play on the right. IMO with the youngsters we have in these two positions we are well covered but an extended layoff means we need someone who can play right now with the same intensity and confidence we have from our two starters. I don't want to move Johnson over to the left where he is solid, and easily LFC's best choice, because on the right he is one of the best in any league. I don't want us losing his ability to cover the entire right side - to act as a stopgap on the left where he is less effective. Simply, when played on the right he is a star. On the left, he is a "good" player who could start there for most PL clubs.

    All that said, I am in no way saying we are trying to replace Enrique. Originally, my comment was to give him this year to prove he's able to play at LFC. At the halfway mark I don't think anyone can argue that he hasn't shown and shone. I want a player who is hungry to play and can rotate with Glen and Jose to allow them each a little rest but without a loss of quality that we get by playing the youngsters or by moving Glen to his off hand. Overall, this will increase stability in the defense as it is much easier for our middle pair to understand that when Glen or Jose are playing, they are always on their natural side. The inclusion of one more player that can play well at both flanks is easier to cope with than moving Glen over and putting in an inferior player there. In other words, it's easier for them to understand one move (the player to be named, than two (the change of position and another player in his spot). Someone like Gonzalo Castro of Bayer Leverkusen would be ideal, but would probably be too expensive for a third sb and would want a guaranteed starting position. But I'm sure the coaches and scouts have their list of players that are similar. We need one - now.

    2. Wingers wingers wingers:

    We haven't seen a top class winger brought to this club since Harry Kewell. While I am delighted that Stewart Downing is finally starting to show potential and we have a true up and comer in Raheem Sterling, we need a veteran with skill and poise.

    Over the season, Raheem has proven he is our best and first choice on one side. That is fantastic. But as I stated early on, we can't have to RELY on him. We can't continue to put that kind of pressure on him and expect results. It's too much to ask of an 18 year old no matter how much potential he is showing. Let us also not forget that, although he is fun to watch and has an abundance of skill, the goals need to be coming from that position at a much higher clip. Now can we go to him and say "Son, we need you to start scoring more."? No! We have to nurture him along and let him find his game. If we put too much on his shoulders he stands to break down in the long run and any progress he gains by playing so much will be countered by doubt if those goals don't come right away. He is already having to cope with going from a youth academy prospect to a starter at one of the biggest clubs in the world and a part player on the international team - AGAIN at 18! The positive of this is that he has signed a long term deal (congratulations young man!) and is working with people at the club that understand this point much better than I and will give him the necessary guidance to have the opportunity to become a great player with a long successful career, not just a great young player who never lived up to expectations.

    As far as Downing is concerned I am very happy with his recent form but will simply state BR has hit this one right on the head by saying that "If he contuinues to play like this he will be at LFC for a long time." But, and I want to make this VERY clear, while I am very happy with a couple good matches, I am not convinced he is the long term starter yet and would not be sorry if he was sold based upon the time he's already had to show and didn't. I'm not convinced that we can rely on him as we should be able at his age and experience level. I don't dislike the man in any way and I wish him the best success. It's great fun to see some of those blistering shots from the corner of the box and his touch on the through pass to Stevie was absolute class. So, he has shown what he can do. Now he just has to go out and do it - every single match.

    After Stewart and Raheem, who do we have? Assaidi - I believe he has had only one start this season so it's hard to say anything about his game. But I trust the managers that there must be a reason why he hasn't played more. Suso - is just not ready. Flashes of brilliance followed by indecision bely the talent dormant in this young fellow. Also, he is an attacking mid and seems poorly suited mentally to a wing position at this time. Shelvey - I like this kid a lot. Big, strong, smart, talented, with good vision and true scoring ability. But he's much too slow for the wing. This young man will be a fantastic central player for us for years but not a good choice at wing. Cole - he simply won't stay wide. Never has, never will. Pacheco - see Assaidi.

    We need somone who can play either wing, who can score and pass, and who is ready to step in now: a player like Cazorla or Hazard. I don't know BR's thinking on Sturridge or Sturridge's thinking on playing wing. The only thing clear about signing him is that he has a lot of ability and can play any of the three forward positions. Centrally he is a backup to Luis. Will Luis go to his wing position with Daniel up front? Will Daniel provide solid passing if he is on the wing? What I do know is that, ability - wise - Daniel is competition for either wing right now and a solid second choice striker. So who is out there? IMO Erickson, though a natural AMF, is a perfect fit who would provide us with goals and assists immediately and is still very young. But he's a tough buy with Madrid and Milan clubs watching him as well as the last minute financial muscle of some of the ultra rich PL clubs.

    3. Keepers:

    TO BE ABSOLUTEALY CLEAR: Brenda Rodgers said "PEPE IS OUR STARTING KEEPER." I am very happy he made that statement publicly. I want Pepe to play for LFC until he retires. IMO he is amazing. As it stands now, he is a fantastic keeper. He reads the match as well as anyone in the game and has wonderful hands. He is strong in passing from the back and has all the tools you'd ever want. It is however clear that he has been a little bit spotty this year and I know he is doing everything he can to return to his best form. My only real concern is footspeed. It remains to be seen if a positional keeper like Pepe is the perfect fit for the system BR is implementing. Pepe's skillset of intelligence and positioning allow him to make up for not being too fast by knowing exactly where he's supposed to be and to read a situation as it develops, thereby making his first step quicker. The perfect foil to understand this idea is to look at ManChitty's Joe Hart. He is often out of position but makes acrobatic saves look commonplace. Better still, think Jerzy Dudek.

    Brad Jones played very well for us - well enough that he might consider moving to a club where he can play regularly. If the Butland rumours are to be believed, then this consideration increases tenfold. After Jones we have a few youngsters that need time to develop. Gulasci has great talent, but nothing scares me more right now than seeing him on the start sheet. Keepers have a great long lifespan compared to field players and he could very well develop as he hits his mid 20's. That just remains to be seen. He needs to keep working as hard as he can and hope. Heck, he's better than Brad Guzan and he's a starter in the PL.

    continued in next post
    Last edited by Neverman; 1-1-13 at 17:59.
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    continued from last post




    4. Off the field concerns:

    A. The ownership: Apart from the Dempsey/NESN debacle I have no complaints. If the owner spoke more he'd catch hell for sticking his fingers in the pie. If he spoke less he'd be called an absent owner. I like that he's looked at LFC as a long-term project rather than a quick money making scheme. That sort of approach is fitting for a club with such a rich history. The handling of Gillette and Hicks goes to show that he is not someone to be trifled with and gives the supporters a clear example that not all Americans are "the same".

    B. The managers: One need look no farther than the no nonsense attitude exemplified by Brendan Rodgers to see there has been a monumental shift in the dressing room. The buck stops with him but he has no problems telling the players when they aren't performing and succinctly explains to each individual player how they can get better even when playing well.

    D. The supporters:

    The good: The amazing way the community and fans of the beautiful sport over the whole world came together over the disaster and belated acknowledgment of the Hillborough 96 was an example for the world that justice must in the end prevail. It isn't over, but we will never stop until each and every family is satisfied.

    The bad: Shame on you who left the Aston Villa match early. Y.N.W.A. is in our blood. It is even tatooed on my inner arm where people can read it when I shake their hands. MILLIONS of us dream of being in Anfield just once in our lives. Most of us will never be able to achieve that for financial reasons alone. If you are lucky enough to be there, even for a loss, even while your heart is breaking, recognize just how lucky you are and support your team.

    The ugly: To those who still fight each other in the name of a football club, your day has passed. If you still need to fight, find a different excuse and stop sullying our beloved LFC with your hatred and violence. Better still, learn a martial art that will help you focus your rage into a beneficial self awareness.

    Thank you for your time.

    NEVERMAN
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    Neverman you remind me so much of one of them who touted andy Carroll as being a top striker then when it all went pear shaped you changed your attitude Henderson will come good he's a tryer gives 100 percent cole can go so can downing as for giving the team time how long do u want Alex ferg has got rid of rebuilt got rid of rebuilt and don't forget he started with kids but he got them to gel almost straight away while getting wins on the board football is football in my eyes if you ain't got heart and that killer instinct you got no chance of winning anything YNWA
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeypool View Post
    Neverman you remind me so much of one of them who touted andy Carroll as being a top striker then when it all went pear shaped you changed your attitude Henderson will come good he's a tryer gives 100 percent cole can go so can downing as for giving the team time how long do u want Alex ferg has got rid of rebuilt got rid of rebuilt and don't forget he started with kids but he got them to gel almost straight away while getting wins on the board football is football in my eyes if you ain't got heart and that killer instinct you got no chance of winning anything YNWA
    and breathe
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeypool View Post
    Neverman you remind me so much of one of them who touted andy Carroll as being a top striker then when it all went pear shaped you changed your attitude Henderson will come good he's a tryer gives 100 percent cole can go so can downing as for giving the team time how long do u want Alex ferg has got rid of rebuilt got rid of rebuilt and don't forget he started with kids but he got them to gel almost straight away while getting wins on the board football is football in my eyes if you ain't got heart and that killer instinct you got no chance of winning anything YNWA


    1. Mikey: "you remind me so much of one of them who touted andy Carroll as being a top striker then when it all went pear shaped you changed your attitude"

    First, your post seems very “trollish”. By using the words "one of them" you paint me with a brush that says I'm the same as a certain group, that we all carry the same attitudes and opinions, and so you can discredit what I'm writing because I’m “with them”. Either you were trying to insult me or you just haven't read the whole post (I wouldn't blame you as I'm pretty long winded).

    That aside, I always supported Kenny Dalglish, just as I have and will support whoever we get as manager or player. The reason I do so is because the people in those positions know much more about professional football than I (or you, or any other person posting on the forums) and are privy to scouting reports, statistics, and medical information from the club. I don't so I have to have faith in the club to get it right - but I understand that there are always mistakes. I absolutely admit I was happy when we got Carroll because he was a dominant scorer before he got injured and it looked like we were buying players to keep him going in that direction. It didn't work. I was wrong. That happens. I can only observe and report what I see. I try not to make judgments about players before I can see something but sometimes I trust in the stewards of LFC of which King Kenny is at the top. Did I think 35M was outrageous? Yes. For that we should have gotten Benzema, Cavani, or someone of that quality but the time wasn’t there to put anything else together.

    So when you say I changed my attitude, that simply is not true. My attitude has always been the same - to suport LFC. The thing that changed was my mind after seeing with my own eyes that Carroll’s attitude was abysmal. If you were able to predict that he would go from a 20 goal scorer to a flop in one years time, good for you. You earn a gold star.

    2. Mikey: "Henderson will come good he's a tryer gives 100 percent cole can go so can downing"

    At the start of this thread I said:

    “Players that can't play this system: Downing, maybe Enrique, and Henderson (though Enrique and Hendo deserve the year imo) “

    At that time, it was a completely accurate statement. In the summer Henderson looked lost and confused on the pitch. I noted that when I wrote that he had started slower than many of the other youngsters. I mentioned that his mental capacity to learn could be a problem but also noted that central mid is probably THE toughest position for a young player to learn because he needs to have 360 degree situational awareness whereas a winger, has a side to work, a forward is about goals, and the defense has everything in front of them. Since then he has made significant steps. I’ve written statements to that effect above. So far so good. If he continues to get better then he gets another year…

    That same quote above in regards to Downing I still feel is accurate. Though his last few displays have shown promise I’ve written what I think are his abilities and weaknesses and I am not convinced he is the right man for the job. But, again, if he can play like he has recently on a consistent basis, then he can play anywhere. I would rather be wrong about him and LFC play better than be right and we don’t improve.

    I also wrote:

    “Players that are underperforming: Reina (sorry Pepe but you know it too), Gerrard, Cole, Pacheco, Borini (give him time)

    And:

    Players to drop immediately even if we take the loss: Carroll, Downing, Cole, Wilson, Doni, Pacheco

    So if anything, we agree about Cole.

    3. Mikey: "how long do u want Alex ferg has got rid of rebuilt got rid of rebuilt and don't forget he started with kids but he got them to gel almost straight away while getting wins on the board"

    This is an incredibly dumb statement on many levels.

    First, The same thing I wrote to Sheamus (above) in regards to Man City applies to "dame" Alex. I couldn't care less about what Manchester United does or doesn't do unless it somehow effects LFC. Personally, I think the man is a borish bully and a total tool. I'm more embarrased that Jonjo was made to apologize for his words to AF than in the tackle that got him the red card. After all, he was just giving voice to what everyone was thinking in the heat of the moment and he will learn to keep his head. Also, if Johnny Knoxville hadn't been rolling on the floor like a big girl, Jonjo hadn't stood up right away, and AF wasn't in the ear of the fourth official at every step of every match of every season and in every press conference, then probably both players would have gotten yellow and a strict warning.

    Second, to say he rebuilds and rebuilds is complete garbage. He hasn't rebuilt anything, only replaced players who left. That is not anywhere near as monumental a challenge as replacing an entire system with a new managment team while simultaneously decreasing your wage bill to make up for the bad purchases of the previous years. So your comparison simply doesn't apply to the situation at LFC.

    Third, if all the kids gelled right away why did Scholes come out of retirement? Why was Giggs getting so much play time? Why is Nani amazing one day and not the next? I could go on....

    Finally, a simple answer to your question: how much time? ummmmm, how about MORE THAN HALF A SEASON!

    4. Mikey: "football is football"

    And bananas are bananas.

    5. Mikey: "in my eyes if you ain't got heart and that killer instinct you got no chance of winning anything"

    I agree 100% with that statement, but I don't understand what or who you're applying it to. Do you mean LFC in general? Brendan Rodgers? Cole? Downing? As a comparison to Henderson in regards to his trying? No joke, I'm asking.

    6. Y.N.W.A.

    forever.
    Last edited by Neverman; 2-1-13 at 01:13.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NumptyNumbNuts View Post
    and breathe
    LOL. Yeah, I had to read it a couple of times to make sure I knew where the periods were supposed to be.

    Look, I'm just a fan who's been playing and watching football going on 4 decades now. I don't claim to know everything. I thought I'd already made it clear that these are my opinions. I do however believe that the more we talk the more we learn.

    I wonder if he was just... wait for it...

    takin' the mikey on me.
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    First, I have heard enough from the players and from Brendan Rodgers that "we deserved" a tie vs. ManU. I understand that credit should be given for a good second half and players egos can be bruised so sometimes we speek carefully. This is not the case here.

    We deserved nothing from the match because we were not ready to play in the first 45 minutes. We were very lucky not to have given up 2-3 more goals in the first half but for the play of our exceptionally resurgent goalkeeper Pepe Reina. Yes, we were the better team in the second half but BR was outcoached on this day. As we added more attack, ManU added more defense. That was to be expected with a two goal lead. Did we have chances to tie? Yes. But again, only because ManU missed chances to be up by 4 at half. I am encouraged that the players never gave up, but watching the first half was gut wrenching. There was hardly a pass completed and we looked unmotivated and slow to react. That must be remedied by the manager immediately and not glossed over afterwards.

    I respect Brendan Rodgers too much to accept his statements after that first half display. I am concerned that saying those types of things - and having the players believe them - creates complacency. Instead of looking at how we were beaten and preparing better we will continue to put out bad displays in the most important circumstances. if we lull ourselves into the false conviction that we were somehow unfairly measured we cannot improve because expectations become the norm and improvement becomes secondary.

    I've heard this same statement during the season and until this match I agreed on each instance. But against our greatest rivals, to fool ourselves this way with a stock answer is unacceptable. We weren't cheated by the football gods, we let ourselves down by creating a mountain in the first half that was too high to climb in the second. I can accept a loss, but I cannot accept a lack of focus. Enough said.

    Second, rumours are just rumours but...

    Wesley Sneijder:
    Imo Sneijder is a great buy if we can get him for the same price range we're hearing from Turkey. Players of his callibre don't become available very often, so when they do, we need to take adantage. For perspective, right now we have two potentially great young central midfielders in Allen and Henderson and another two potentially great attacking midfielders in Shelvey and Suso. With Lucas and Steven any of those young men are basically interchangebale depending on tactics and form on gameday. We each have our favorites, but none of them are anywhere near as polished, (game) intelligent, skilled, or experienced as Wesley. Sneijder is the perfect player if we truly want to make a run at 4th this year. Additionally, by buying him now, we have a much greater chance of financial equitability from added CL revenue. (and if you want added financial incentive, take a few pics of his beautiful wife in the LFC red at the matches and see how many more shirts get sold )

    Suarez - Sturridge - Sterling
    Gerrard - Sneijder - Lucas
    Enrique - Agger - Skrtel - Johnson
    Reina

    THAT is a Champions League Lineup.

    Victor Valdez:
    There is NO good reason to sign him and I don't believe the rumours at all. If they're true, then we have some faulty reasoning going on in managment. First, before re-upping his last contract at Barca many wondered if he was worth the money because of his inconsistency. Second, he'll be more expensive than Pepe who is easily the better keeper. Third, Valdez is poor at ball handling (with his feet), a skill crucial to our present style and a skill that Pepe is known for. Fourth, he's not effective against placed kicks.

    Peec and Donuts
    Last edited by Neverman; 18-1-13 at 21:33.
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  26. #56  
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    Feb 2011
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    When you're smiling, when you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you.

    Viva la Liverpool!

    A real team win. As soon as everyone saw Stevie running his legs off in the first 3 minutes, they all ran. That running off the ball set up opportunities all over the pitch. Havok was caused.

    So that's what BR's style looks like when it really clicks.

    Each goal better than the last, well excepting the last but not because Sterling wasn't excellent - but because he almost got it across to the back post but for the tip from the defender. The Strurridge goal was my favorite because of the choices of passes they made and of the accuracy of those passes. The choices because they make for fun, exciting football, and the accuracy was total class. Amazing excecution. Henderson was on his game and laid it to Downing, who catches the ball low - on the full volley - and this is the beauty part - he puts it across the box on the bounce right where it will cause a problem for the keeper, to an onrushing Danniel Sturridge for a neat tap in.

    Hendos goal was a bit lucky that the ball popped out to and sat up for him, but the excecution was brilliant. But that pop out was caused by Suarez who took on 7 defenders, causing total chaos! He was rewarded with a goal of his own so classy that I couldn't believe it. Brilliant heat on the pass by Lucas with a wonderful dummy by our new Daniel and a pinpoint finish by a marksman on his game.

    Excellent all around, especially Downing. Yeah. I said it! Downing.

    Congratulations Gentlemen.

    ...when you're laughing...
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  27. #57  
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    How ironic is it that just days after Gerard explained that it was “individual errors” that have caused the inconsistency of form this season, that one such error by one of our greatest heroes is the catalyst that knocks LFC from European contention? I don’t blame our #23 for the loss but simply use that point to show how aware our club seems to be of the present situation.

    Like all of us I am saddened that Jamie’s last European match as a player will always be remembered for a sadly human blunder that would be but a laugh if we were only able to drop one more in the net before time. For some supporters this summed up our season as just not good enough. They will refuse to see that in fact it was quite an extraordinary display of football and that our club completely and systematically dismantled and demolished the strongest Russian club in years. I for one will remember Jamie’s play for his great displays and not for 3 seconds of one 90 minute match in the span of a decades long career. Thus is the nature of football. Fans can be fickle and reactive in their disappointment or delusional in their praise. For those, the water cooler talk of results and traded insults seems more important than the true state of being in which our club now resides.

    Whatever the case, I hope to go a little deeper here: beyond the lizard brain leftovers of our Neanderthal ancestors in favor of frank assessment as I see it. I hope others will contribute and tell me where they believe I’m wrong. I’ll try to stay away from specific match coverage (as others here do a great job in their synopsis) but I will point to trends and specific examples in those matches to make my arguments. I hope those going on this journey with me will do the same.

    Now that (as a team) we have only a European place to fight for this season, some questions are to be asked and their answers to be explored – though sometimes to answer is like trying to nail jell-o to the wall. And even answers found will often just lead to more questions.

    1. What have we to play for?
    2. Is there progress in the team, players, and management in comparison to the past?
    3. Which players deserve to stay? Who should go? And who may want to leave?
    4. Where do we need to improve and how do we do so?
    5. Should I have written “Mark my words…” at the beginning of the thread?

    So as not to receive a glut of reactive comments I won’t give short answers that will be incomplete representations of my analysis or otherwise cause confusion that will sidetrack the discussion or alienate those who wish to be heard. Therefore, I will give my opinion on each of these questions in length and in mostly separate posts. I truly hope to spark some good discussion.
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  28. #58  
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverman View Post
    How ironic is it that just days after Gerard explained that it was “individual errors” that have caused the inconsistency of form this season, that one such error by one of our greatest heroes is the catalyst that knocks LFC from European contention? I don’t blame our #23 for the loss but simply use that point to show how aware our club seems to be of the present situation.

    Like all of us I am saddened that Jamie’s last European match as a player will always be remembered for a sadly human blunder that would be but a laugh if we were only able to drop one more in the net before time. For some supporters this summed up our season as just not good enough. They will refuse to see that in fact it was quite an extraordinary display of football and that our club completely and systematically dismantled and demolished the strongest Russian club in years. I for one will remember Jamie’s play for his great displays and not for 3 seconds of one 90 minute match in the span of a decades long career. Thus is the nature of football. Fans can be fickle and reactive in their disappointment or delusional in their praise. For those, the water cooler talk of results and traded insults seems more important than the true state of being in which our club now resides.

    Whatever the case, I hope to go a little deeper here: beyond the lizard brain leftovers of our Neanderthal ancestors in favor of frank assessment as I see it. I hope others will contribute and tell me where they believe I’m wrong. I’ll try to stay away from specific match coverage (as others here do a great job in their synopsis) but I will point to trends and specific examples in those matches to make my arguments. I hope those going on this journey with me will do the same.

    Now that (as a team) we have only a European place to fight for this season, some questions are to be asked and their answers to be explored – though sometimes to answer is like trying to nail jell-o to the wall. And even answers found will often just lead to more questions.

    1. What have we to play for?
    2. Is there progress in the team, players, and management in comparison to the past?
    3. Which players deserve to stay? Who should go? And who may want to leave?
    4. Where do we need to improve and how do we do so?
    5. Should I have written “Mark my words…” at the beginning of the thread?

    So as not to receive a glut of reactive comments I won’t give short answers that will be incomplete representations of my analysis or otherwise cause confusion that will sidetrack the discussion or alienate those who wish to be heard. Therefore, I will give my opinion on each of these questions in length and in mostly separate posts. I truly hope to spark some good discussion.


    1. The shirt, pride and until It is mathmatically impossible fourth place and when thats gone the europa league spot(s?).
    2. Yes evident by chances created and goals scored so far, compared to previous seasons.
    3. Guess this ones down to opinion but Carroll for definate and possibly Downing (although could come in handy as a squad player). I would definitely keep Henderson.
    4. Cut out the silly mistakes, bring in a solid reliable centre back (or two) and cover for Lucas. More clinical and more players chipping in with goals instead of the usual suspects.
    5. I'll let you know in May!
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  29. #59  
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    Nov 2011
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    I'll start with #3 First. Starting with...

    Player by player analysis PART 1

    #1 Brad Jones: GK 31
    Brad played admirably in Pepe’s absence at the beginning of the season. He made some spectacular saves as he seemed to get used to starting on a regular basis. Later in the season mental and physical errors crept into his game and he had one howler match. Overall he is a fantastic second GK for spot duty but I would feel ill at ease playing him every week against the top tier teams.
    Verdict: Keep him unless he wants to move for regular action while we nurture a young 3rd GK.

    #2 Glen Johnson: S/WB 28
    A stalwart with technical skill far better than most in his position, Johnson has proven once again he is one of the best players on either side in the PL. The defensive liabilities he showed in his early career no longer plague his reputation and the style Brendan Rodgers has instituted is a perfect match for him as long as he’s kept in the defensive positions where he can move into danger areas but still has the speed to recover.
    Verdict: Extend him as he’s at his prime and with any luck will end his career with several trophies for LFC in the next several years.

    #3 Jose Enrique: S/WB, LM 27
    What a bargain this man has proven to be. Nicknamed “The Bull” he has a penchant for nicking the ball off the opposition just when he looks beaten. He has good vision and excellent touch and stamina. He has been a consistent performer this year though he plays some risky possession at times. I’m confused when I hear us linked with left backs because with Jose here, and the ability of Johnson for cover with Kelly coming back and Wisdom able to cover for spot duty, it seems other needs are higher priority. A solid backup is needed however, preferably young.
    Verdict: Extend him.

    #5 Daniel Agger: CB 28
    Our most consistent center defenseman this season, Daniel is strong in the air, positionally intelligent, tough, relatively fast, and with strong skills for his position moving forward. Injury concerns still remain but this young man is easily one of our best 5 players. With Jamie leaving it will be important for Daniel to find his voice and become the defensive leader taking command and barking orders. Alternatively, an experienced partner in the back who can organize would let Agger play his game. This is an area for concern next year and will be interesting to see how it’s handled.
    Verdict: Extend him and hope he ends his career at LFC.

    #7 Luis Suarez: F 26
    Luis is one of the most gifted and relentless players in the world of football. Despite all the criticism for his temperament, there is not a single team in the world who would refuse to sign him given the chance. His versatility and drive make him the focal point of our attack and I wouldn’t trade him for any other player in the world. He never gives up and is loyal and loved. Let us all hope he gets the mental coaching to control his temper that will not take away his edge. He’s proven this year he’s as deadly in front of goal in the PL as he was in the Eredivisie. He’s truly a magnificent talent who will become a Liverpool legend if the team continues to grow around him and he stays. He is irreplaceable. His acceptance of the 10 game ban without objection showed he was truly remorseful and his love for the city, the club, the players, and the fans is undeniable. I know we all wish him the best and are looking forward to him making up for his mistakes with many more goals, assists, and the innumerable nutmegs he seems to pull off with ease. A future captain if he gets his head straight. Our loyalty to him will be paid back with his loyalty to us. He is a rogue gentleman with a penchant for moments of genius equal to his moments of insanity. He needs to stay on the edge or his game will suffer, but he also needs to understand winning at all costs can mean losing later by missing matches – something I believe makes him very uncomfortable.
    Verdict: Extend him for as long as we possibly can.

    #8 Steven Gerrard: CM 33 on 30 May (happy birthday young man!)
    Though Stevie has lost a step and may not be as fast on the break as he once was, he sees the entire field better than maybe anyone in world football. He is one of the best long passers of the ball in the world and shifts points of attack amazingly fast. If, as it seems, he is moving back from an attacking role to a bit more defensive he needs to spend some time on his tackling skills. His blistering shot of past seasons was not on display this year but I’m not convinced it’s gone, but simply dormant from the slight change in field position. I mentioned a while back that Stevie needs to have a very stringent off season workout regime comparable to NFL great Jerry Rice who managed to play until he was 40. Repetition of skills and endurance training are more important than strength training at this point to slow any diminishment of skills likely to occur over the next 3-4 years and strength and speed training won’t be as beneficial in the long run. From here on forth he should be the last man off the field in training and should spend about 1/3 more time on endurance and flexibility exercises than on strength and speed. Given his commitment to the club there is no reason why Stevie can’t get his PL title before he retires but he must take it on himself to stay fit even more than he ever has in the past. This summer may see him come back a little slower after the surgery and in that time he should be watching film on some of the best deep sitting CM’s of history. I’m sure he can get on the phone with Xabi and get some good pointers on how to extend his career. Stevie also can be inconsistent and is a notoriously beginning of the season slow starter. When he runs, the whole team follows his example, but sometimes he waits and drops back too much, allowing passing lanes to be created by opposition movement in the final third. Again, while he’s laid up he should watch lot of film. He’s already one of the smartest payers tactically in the world, but even the best can get better. If he wants to stay one of the best, now is the time to vary his training to improve the areas he still can. This team is not the same without him on the field and we need him if we’re going to challenge for top 4 next year to be on his game mentally as soon as he is able to run.
    Verdict: Extend him for as long as he wants to play then offer him any position he wants on the coaching staff or as an ambassador.

    #10 Philippe Coutinho: A/SM 20
    His offensive capabilities and technical prowess are a wonder to watch at times, but his defensive marking is sometimes woeful. This is common for a young player and by no means is he the only one on this team with this inconsistency. Playing in attacking positions suits him well as he is not a long ball passer (yet) but has touch, vision, and control in pressurized areas of the field. His change of speed and direction are excellent adding to his short to midrange pinpoint passing. A young man with all the tools, but must keep his ego in check if he wants to become better; which he must if he will hold down a position on this team as we bring in more young recruits.
    Verdict: Extend him and expect continued improvement.

    #11 Oussama Assaidi: LW 25
    He is an enigma of skill mixed with inconsistency and seems to be lacking the final pass or touch so necessary for his position at a top club. He has speed but seems to lack vision at times. Seems limited in shot strength but hasn’t really gotten a chance to show in matches.
    Verdict: With Downing and Henderson showing up and the inclusion of Coutinho, Assaidi may be on his way out.

    #14 Jordan Henderson: CM/SM 22
    Slow to pick up on Brendan Rodgers strategy at the beginning of the season, Jordan has come on strong and is my choice for the advanced midfield role with Coutinho and Suarez and Sturridge up front. He can cover a lot of ground and is not afraid to try the odd creative pass. He’s started to develop a keen understanding with Downing in particular and if he can develop that with others he will be a real force by his mid 20’s. He comes back to pressure when on defense and has a good motor. His skills are patchy at times but when he’s on he’s extremely talented. Advances made this year must continue into next year and the next if he is to hold down a permanent starting position, but there is no reason to think he can’t do so.
    Verdict: Keep him and watch his progress next year. If it continues, then extend.

    #15 Daniel Sturridge: F 23
    If given the chance Daniel may prove to be as potent a scoring threat as Suarez. He is fast with great change of direction and an amazingly quick first step. Smart positional player with a motor to match who makes runs all over the oppositions final third, can turn or lay off as well as anyone around his age. At times he is indecisive but experience should solve that as he’s an intelligent player who seems to be coming into his own. I truly hope he and Suarez play together up front as often as possible next year and develop a keen understanding with Coutinho. If so, the three could be a devastating attacking force for several years with skill sets that complement each other well. A better long range shot than at first expected, we should see him let loose more often and earlier to catch opposing GK’s by surprise when the play is slow to develop. He hasn’t shown much in the air.
    Verdict: Extend him and expect continued improvement as he becomes more familiar with his teammates and they with him.
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  30. #60  
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    #16 Sebastian Coates: CB 22
    What little we’ve seen of Seb has covered a wide spectrum. He started out with an acrobatic goal in the preseason that any forward 20 centimeters shorter would have had trouble killing. Later, he was caught on the high line with regularity, making us all wonder if this young man has the speed to play in Brendan Rodgers system. The thing is, we need a defender to step in right now. Seb is not ready, but he’s really just a couple seasons from being a Hyypia like presence on the back line.
    Verdict: loan him out to get him games but don’t lose him until we have a better idea of what we have in him.

    #19 Stewart Downing: SM 29
    Hands down, Stewie is the comeback player of the year on this team. Stewart was very indecisive at the beginning of the term. He looked like he was second guessing everything he was doing. He looked lost and confused. Then Brendan Rodgers smacked him in the face with the truth about his play and something just “clicked” in him. Suddenly he just started playing his game. And THAT made all the difference. At first it seemed he was trying to adapt to the game. Over time, after he made up his mind to play every ball and chase every opportunity, the game of the whole team adapted to him. They new suddenly that Stewart had the speed down the line to cause havoc. They saw he was whipping I the ball into danger areas as if he was saying “go there next time”.

    I got especially into analysis of his game early on and I really didn’t think he was as good as he’s proving to be. I’m very happy to have been wrong. From now on Mr. Downing Y.N.W.A.
    Verdict: keep him.
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