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Thread: Sakho

  1. #1051  
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    Quote Originally Posted by LW94 View Post
    my comment was in regards to Lovren
    Oops sorry then
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  2. #1052  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    He has only improved - coz there is no demand at Palace, he can be the star attraction there and reap the adulation.... here is one of many star attractions, most of them bigger than him and his nose is out of joint, coz he doesn't have the game to deal with it.......
    Blimey, that is rubbish Ron.
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  3. #1053  
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    Blimey, that is rubbish Ron.
    Sakho - I know
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  4. #1054  
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    Blimey, that is rubbish Ron.
    no hes not.
    Sakho is suited to a team that plays deep as his weaknesses are covered with a crowded defence.
    Holding a high line at a top club is a totally different story.
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  5. #1055  
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertretford View Post
    What do you mean?
    Style of play. Read what i wrote above it. Big sames style of football. Pretty clear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rederman View Post
    no hes not.
    Sakho is suited to a team that plays deep as his weaknesses are covered with a crowded defence.
    Holding a high line at a top club is a totally different story.
    Complete rubbish.
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  7. #1057  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesalTV View Post
    Oh I totally agree. If Klopp was adamant about it then fine. But he needed to replace Sakho and didn't.

    As a result, he hasn't "managed" his resources adequately, I feel. He's the manager, that's his job to be pragmatic.

    I always found it interesting that Sakho basically got stitched on the fake-drug thing, then acted like a bit of a clown and that was enough to kick him out of the club.

    Firmino gets done for drink-driving - a criminal offence - and barely gets a slap on the wrist, it was all kept in-house and he's continued being productive.


    If Klopp was like "OK you're out" and had Tah or Van Dijk coming in, then fine go for it. But the punishment on Sakho (after he had the worst few months of his life, don't forget France) seemed disproportionate to say the least.

    I love Jurgen but I don't think Klopp has managed his resources particularly well, and don't think he's been pragmatic enough - and it's been to the detriment of our season.

    I know I'm in the minority but quite a few people feel the same way.
    Mmm, depends on perspective, fact is Sakho was taking pills he had no business taking, the punishment by UEFA was wrong on a technicality but Sakho still had personal responsibility in what he was doing and didn't seem to take any or much of it. Was late for the teams pre-season flight and training etc and then defied the clubs wishes to go out on a loan in order to get match fit etc.

    Lets remember, he's effectively wasted 12 months of his career.

    Firmino was burgled then got done for drink driving but this didn't seem to impact his job, the opposite is true of Sakho
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  8. #1058  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rederman View Post
    no hes not.
    Sakho is suited to a team that plays deep as his weaknesses are covered with a crowded defence.
    Holding a high line at a top club is a totally different story.
    That's not what he said though.

    What are his weaknesses that are more exposed by playing high more so than other centre backs we have.

    I'm not suggesting Klopp was wrong to move him on by the way, I don't know the facts, just suggesting it wasn't down to his ability as a defender.
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  9. #1059  
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    You did explain it I apologise. I don't agree.
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  10. #1060  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    Consider if you have a defensively strong left hand side in addition to a defensively strong right hand side you have a defensive side as both side are defensive.

    There are naturally more right footed players. The play for many teams tends to be down the right even if only slightly more meaning spaces open up on the left. I think you've been selective and Nick Tanner or 'whoosh' Tanner as he is affectionately termed in these parts wasn't an distinguished player over time and a centre back.

    I've watched Carragher, Riise, Auriello, Harkness, Bjornebye, Staunton play left back and many of them were attacking full backs some not. The right side affects the left on a football pitch.

    For example if United play Beckham and Neville right, which is solid, strong in positional play and consistent, works hard then of course you can have a Giggs, Ronaldo, Evra raiding down the opposite side.

    I recall Barcelona having Abidal (a centre back) left back and Alves was raiding the opposite side because Messi and Alves were such a force the left balanced on the opposite side.

    You would often see Arsenal play with Ray Parlour right hand side or Ljungberg and both good players the Swede having more flair but incredibly industrious players and Overmars and Pires would get more freedom.

    It's not uncommon to have balance not just in terms of defence and attack but left and right also.
    Sorry coach just let you know I'm on a mobile phone now days as my computers busted so I can't always answer as I got very small screen so I do apologise for missing your points.

    Switching atopic to attacking sense I agree that you have to have balance down both sides,

    I disagree with the fact that you used a foreign team as example because European teams play different to English teams

    Let's look at our right hand side the right fullback and the right winger the past 27 years what is work as in harmony

    balanced full backs to attack as well as being good defensively

    Nichol, Jones, Heggem,Babbel, Finnan, Johnson, Clyne

    Wingers attack but also helped out defensively

    Houghton, McManaman, Smicer, Stevie G, Mane

    When you compare it to the left side

    Ziege, Riise ( who i forgot) , Aurelio best of the bunch and attacking

    We've had 4 left footed wingers which 3 weren't that great and best left foot winger we have had in 27 years is Patrick Berger

    Rest 20 odd years we had right foot wide players.

    Now end up right foot fullback who was midfielder and a right footed attacking midfielder on the left

    Then you add to the equation only brought two left footed central defenders

    It not been great building are left side at all
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  11. #1061  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rederman View Post
    no hes not.
    Sakho is suited to a team that plays deep as his weaknesses are covered with a crowded defence.
    Holding a high line at a top club is a totally different story.
    I don't agree that Sakho can't play in the High Line defensive system

    He played Paris St Germain in a high defensive line and made his name where at the time big clubs for looking to sign him but for his injuries stop that happening

    For France he plaid a high defensive line.

    At Liverpool when we try to play high

    Sakho partnered Lovren he preferring to sit deep like Carragher, same problems Matip haveing.

    Moreno was never relied upon defensively he went walkabout all the time, Coutino also vacated the left hand side

    Allen not helping out defensively.

    So had 4 players going misd around him, so going to look poor defensively.

    That why said have

    Clyne Matip Sakho Hector

    & Wijnaldum replacing Allen in my opinion we would much balanced defensive setup.

    So hope in the summer we get a left footed central Defender and a left footed left back
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  12. #1062  
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    [QUOTE=BeautifulHistory;12456524]I don't agree that Sakho can't play in the High Line defensive system

    He played Paris St Germain in a high defensive line and made his name where at the time big clubs for looking to sign him but for his injuries stop that happening

    For France he plaid a high defensive line.

    At Liverpool when we try to play high

    Sakho partnered Lovren he preferring to sit deep like Carragher, same problems Matip haveing.

    Moreno was never relied upon defensively he went walkabout all the time, Coutino also vacated the left hand side

    Allen not helping out defensively.

    So had 4 players going misd around him, so going to look poor defensively.

    That why said have

    Clyne Matip Sakho Hector

    & Wijnaldum replacing Allen in my opinion we would much balanced defensive setup.

    So hope in the summer we get a left footed central Defender and a left footed left back[/QUOTE:
    Last edited by agb1037; 21-3-17 at 12:09.
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  13. #1063  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    He has only improved - coz there is no demand at Palace, he can be the star attraction there and reap the adulation.... here is one of many star attractions, most of them bigger than him and his nose is out of joint, coz he doesn't have the game to deal with it.......
    :FP:
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  14. #1064  
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    Sorry coach just let you know I'm on a mobile phone now days as my computers busted so I can't always answer as I got very small screen so I do apologise for missing your points.

    Switching atopic to attacking sense I agree that you have to have balance down both sides,

    I disagree with the fact that you used a foreign team as example because European teams play different to English teams

    Let's look at our right hand side the right fullback and the right winger the past 27 years what is work as in harmony

    balanced full backs to attack as well as being good defensively

    Nichol, Jones, Heggem,Babbel, Finnan, Johnson, Clyne

    Wingers attack but also helped out defensively

    Houghton, McManaman, Smicer, Stevie G, Mane

    When you compare it to the left side

    Ziege, Riise ( who i forgot) , Aurelio best of the bunch and attacking

    We've had 4 left footed wingers which 3 weren't that great and best left foot winger we have had in 27 years is Patrick Berger

    Rest 20 odd years we had right foot wide players.

    Now end up right foot fullback who was midfielder and a right footed attacking midfielder on the left

    Then you add to the equation only brought two left footed central defenders

    It not been great building are left side at all
    Could this just be a general issue due to left footed players being less common than right footed ones? I'd imagine most clubs find it more difficult to aquire quality left footed players compared to right footed?
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    So far he has been good for Palace, myself I would have him back at the club strictly knowing no more screw ups or that's it . But I don't think the boss wants him.
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  16. #1066  
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    5 years on and some will still be crying over calamity Santo.
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  17. #1067  
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    [QUOTE=agb1037;12456541]
    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    I don't agree that Sakho can't play in the High Line defensive system

    He played Paris St Germain in a high defensive line and made his name where at the time big clubs for looking to sign him but for his injuries stop that happening

    For France he plaid a high defensive line.

    At Liverpool when we try to play high

    Sakho partnered Lovren he preferring to sit deep like Carragher, same problems Matip haveing.

    Moreno was never relied upon defensively he went walkabout all the time, Coutino also vacated the left hand side

    Allen not helping out defensively.

    So had 4 players going misd around him, so going to look poor defensively.

    That why said have

    Clyne Matip Sakho Hector

    & Wijnaldum replacing Allen in my opinion we would much balanced defensive setup.

    So hope in the summer we get a left footed central Defender and a left footed left back[/QUOTE:
    Agree with most of this. Until his drug ban he was playing brilliantly. He is a quality defender and some people just go by his style. We miss his forward passing from defence which got us moving forward. It is a point that Alladyce has commented upon. He will be instrumental in keeping Palace up. Shame, he had to go but Klopp will not have ill discipline in the team.
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  18. #1068  
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    Quote Originally Posted by agb1037 View Post
    Complete rubbish.

    He got bombed out of PSG and Liverpool for a good reason
    Last edited by GrottonRed; 21-3-17 at 13:49. Reason: insults
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  19. #1069  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty road View Post
    So far he has been good for Palace, myself I would have him back at the club strictly knowing no more screw ups or that's it . But I don't think the boss wants him.
    He seemed to be open about that in a recent interview. I think Sakho would have to do some serious apologising for this to happen, and, as you say, keep his nose keen.
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  20. #1070  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rederman View Post
    He got bombed out of PSG ,
    Getting sold to Liverpool for 20m is 'bombed out'?
    Last edited by GrottonRed; 21-3-17 at 13:49. Reason: quote edited
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  21. #1071  
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    Sorry coach just let you know I'm on a mobile phone now days as my computers busted so I can't always answer as I got very small screen so I do apologise for missing your points.

    Switching atopic to attacking sense I agree that you have to have balance down both sides,

    I disagree with the fact that you used a foreign team as example because European teams play different to English teams

    Let's look at our right hand side the right fullback and the right winger the past 27 years what is work as in harmony

    balanced full backs to attack as well as being good defensively

    Nichol, Jones, Heggem,Babbel, Finnan, Johnson, Clyne

    Wingers attack but also helped out defensively

    Houghton, McManaman, Smicer, Stevie G, Mane

    When you compare it to the left side

    Ziege, Riise ( who i forgot) , Aurelio best of the bunch and attacking

    We've had 4 left footed wingers which 3 weren't that great and best left foot winger we have had in 27 years is Patrick Berger

    Rest 20 odd years we had right foot wide players.

    Now end up right foot fullback who was midfielder and a right footed attacking midfielder on the left

    Then you add to the equation only brought two left footed central defenders

    It not been great building are left side at all
    i didn't just use foreign teams i spoke about how United used Beckham and Neville to balance out Giggs, Ronaldo and then Nani later and talked about Parlour and Ljungberg providing incredible energy and industry whilst Overmars and Pires had much fewer defensive duties and more attacking freedom.

    I'm not disagreeing with you at all on the quality front. Just when you pointed out that we should have similar defensive balance down the left. My point is that doesn't always work hence United, Arsenal and ourselves have designed sides that favour one flank (the left) over the right in attacking freedom.

    As an example I remember a Gerard Houllier side with Carragher left back and Riise left wing. Now that's defensively solid. In that system though we were very direct. We went straight for Heskey and Owen's lightening pace could tear the channels apart without wingers.

    That was a particular strategy. Benitez quite a few times either played with two wide midfielders doubling up, or even two left backs down the left flank (too significant criticism at times) but the idea was very similar to give Gerrard and Torres more space.

    Now we block the right, overload it and Lallana, Firmino, Henderson and Clynhe allow Mane to stay fairly advanced but wide. When we get possession we like to work it down the left to get our best players on the ball in an attacking sense with Wijnaldum, Milner, Coutinho and Firmino moving left and our best players at getting beyond the forward line from deep Mane and Lallana running on the blind side of opposition.

    It's a well designed system and one if you criticise the defensive side of the game plan on the left you're completely missing the offensive and strategic advantages of the offensive side.

    First half Caballero made two saves from Firmino and Coutinho as play developed on the left and they cut inside and got shots off. Mane went racing through and could have had a penalty down the left and that's because we create space and possession down the left.

    In fact the penalty we won came from developing play down the left. It's quite a complex set of movements. Fernandinho clears and Milner picks the ball up. Wijnaldum is advanced and Coutinho gets the ball wide. Can moves left to Wijnaldum's position and Mane goes central so Firmino pulls off to where Mane was.

    The space was down the left and we developed it In fact every Liverpool player is now in the left side of pitch (centre-left) aside from Firmino (maybe Clyne not in shot). Without possession we overload the right and try and force the play there. This creates spaces on the left and when there is space and we have possession we can overload the space left and create the space right.

    It's simply about creating numerical advantages in as many situations that benefit us as possible. Our right side may be more solid but the fluidity in possession and spaces are created down the left hand side. That's why we have our technically best players in possession centre-left with Milner, Wijnaldum, Coutinho and Firmino and why we have solid, high energy players like Clyne, Lallana, Henderson, Mane and Firmino working the right because they have to block, press and then make runs into the box if required.

    That's why Klopp loves Firmino. He does the press and blocking down the right, then he joins the build up on the left and it's rightly pointed out by Klopp probably the most physically demanding position on the pitch. Fans can see why Sturridge struggles the more our style develops.

    It's not simply a case of saying our left side needs to be more like our right. You have to understand why they're different. If we have a winger like Mane that can play left then a similar system on the left could be deployed. It would look more solid defensively. you'd have fewer players between the lines. You may play against top sides and struggle for possession with a system similar on both sides and less control of possession in space and between lines.

    Against weaker sides you may be able to stretch both sides more and create spaces centrally to provide another option against teams that defend deep and narrow. I'm not against having the option of more symmetry left and right but it's not the answer just another option and wouldn't work in certain circumstances as well as our system now.

    I'm against seeing only the negatives in the tactics we assess without also pointing out the positives which is what I'm doing now. This isn't tactical mistakes from Klopp opening up the left it's by design and its helped us going forward, it's helped Mane and Lallana join the goals, helped Coutinho, Firmino and Wijnaldum create some fantastic triangles and helped Milner use his qualities in the left back position which are possession, developing the play, attacking and there have been many benefits.

    Fans pick only negatives and see faults when you need to understand there is a trade off. Klopp's tactical plan isn't finished yet. It's developing and when more options are added within the squad we'll see that.
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    ...
    Last edited by GrottonRed; 21-3-17 at 13:50. Reason: quotes edited post
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  23. #1073  
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    Sakho was shown the door because of off field antics, not because of his ability. Pretty shrewd of Klopp to keep him in public view in the premiership. His value is going up game by game.
    Last edited by agb1037; 21-3-17 at 12:38.
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  24. #1074  
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    Quote Originally Posted by agb1037 View Post
    Sakho was shown the door because of off field antics, not because of his ability.
    He'd of been forgiven if Klopp rated him...He doesn't, so he wasn't and that's why he's playing under the fat slug.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B-xdt0kddoQ
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  25. #1075  
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    Well, Pep brought Toure back in after a seemingly worse situation, so anything may be possible.
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  26. #1076  
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    Quote Originally Posted by agb1037 View Post
    Sakho was shown the door because of off field antics, not because of his ability. Pretty shrewd of Klopp to keep him in public view in the premiership. His value is going up game by game.
    Sakho only went to Palace because no one else wanted him. His value isn't going up either.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B-xdt0kddoQ
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeak View Post
    Sakho only went to Palace because no one else wanted him. His value isn't going up either.
    Klopp wanted him and preferred him
    Over lovren every time he was available he'd get picked until the fall out.

    He is our best CB and all should be done to resolve the issue. We need him back because right now our cbs simply aren't good enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by FriendOfBill View Post
    Klopp wanted him and preferred him
    Over lovren every time he was available he'd get picked until the fall out.

    He is our best CB and all should be done to resolve the issue. We need him back because right now our cbs simply aren't good enough
    Such nonsense. At best he's on a par with Lucas who's back up. We don't need him and haven't missed him.

    Why get attached to such an ordinary player?
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B-xdt0kddoQ
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    Sakho is about the same quality level as Lovren, although they are slightly different in style. But neither are good enough if we want to be challenging for the title. Sakho should be sold in the summer and a new first choice LCB brought in to play alongside Matip. Lovren is a pretty decent option to have as a third choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FriendOfBill View Post
    Klopp wanted him and preferred him
    Over lovren every time he was available he'd get picked until the fall out.

    He is our best CB and all should be done to resolve the issue. We need him back because right now our cbs simply aren't good enough
    Agree. I don't think he'll come back. His value has increased at Palace and we will get at least 20m if we sold him.
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