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Thread: Depression and its effects, a discussion thread

  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookygarcia View Post
    *refrains, with great difficulty, from saying too much*

    Paul, I relate to your comments in many ways. Well said, to both yourself and grenny.

    When it comes to people understanding depression and other mental health issues, the sheer ignorance that apparently still persists in this day and age makes me extremely angry.

    I'd best stop here.
    Indeed, talked with people on this subject before here, but I don't think I can go through all this again about people who say people dealing with depression or other mental health issues should "pull themselves together"

    People don't tell people with cancer to stop having cancer, yet this is STILL very common when people talk about mental health, makes me want to punch a wall at times, and I am about the most non violent person anyone can be.
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  2. #32  
    Paullfc1976 is offline LFC Hall of Fame Resident
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    Glad to see Cooky and Angel come in with very sensible comments on this.
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  3. #33  
    Liverpoolforme is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookygarcia View Post
    *refrains, with great difficulty, from saying too much*

    Paul, I relate to your comments in many ways. Well said, to both yourself and grenny.

    When it comes to people understanding depression and other mental health issues, the sheer ignorance that apparently still persists in this day and age makes me extremely angry.

    I'd best stop here.
    On the contary I think you should say everything you think, it's time we all stop tip toeing around the subject and become blunt.

    Something needs to change.
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  4. #34  
    cookygarcia is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by geralion View Post
    Agreed. And learn that it is a state of mind and that mind is a state which you have sovereignty over.
    *deep breath*

    This is the sort of tripe that was spouted at me when I was younger, and listening to such nonsense for too long was nearly the end of me, in all honesty. I refused to take medication that I needed, in order for my brain to function as it should do, for about eight years after I attempted suicide at 16. Why didn't I have the sense to take the pills that would help me? Mainly because I was surrounded by people telling me that depression wasn't an ''illness'', but merely a state of mind. They were spouting horse manure.

    I was unwell. I refused to accept this fact, and thought I could ''shut up and get on with it'', ''pull myself together'', blah blah blah, because that's the sort of environment I was brought up in. Guess what? No matter how much I focused on my A-levels/my degree/my job/my long term relationship, depending on which stage of life I was at, my chronic insomnia and subconscious issues increased in intensity. until I could barely function. That was when I finally accepted that I had an illness, and that it wasn't down to me being ''weak'' - I had spent years attempting to force myself to carry on pretending nothing was wrong.

    We can all act like Linford Christie in the old Lucozade adverts, shouting ''POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE'' (showing my age here), and of course it helps to have determination, etc. That's not the point.

    The point is that the brain is an organ, which can malfunction like any other. I can't imagine anybody being daft enough to tell someone with diabetes or renal problems that their problem is a ''state which (one) has sovereignity over''. If you are clinically depressed, your brain is not producing enough serotonin. Your brain is therefore not functioning as it should be. Sweet words about ''positive thinking'' are all very well, but they don't solve the problem of the ILLNESS.

    I apologise to everyone here if it seems that I've made this ''all about me'' - that was really not my intention. I just didn't know how else to attempt to explain it without referencing my own personal experience. I hope it did not appear self-indulgent.
    Last edited by cookygarcia; 14-8-14 at 23:16. Reason: clarified
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    Not sure if geralion is getting an overly hard time on here responding to my comment about a sober mind. Don't have much contact with this poster so don't know if there's a back story to all this.

    I just know kicking the drink and sleeping and not passing out every night helped me address my demons.
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  6. #36  
    Liverpoolforme is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookygarcia View Post
    *deep breath*

    This is the sort of tripe that was spouted at me when I was younger, and listening to such nonsense for too long was nearly the end of me, in all honesty. I refused to take medication that I needed, in order for my brain to function as it should do, for about eight years after I attempted suicide at 16. Why didn't I have the sense to take the pills that would help me? Mainly because I was surrounded by people telling me that depression wasn't an ''illness'', but merely a state of mind. They were spouting horse manure.

    I was unwell. I refused to accept this fact, and thought I could ''shut up and get on with it'', ''pull myself together'', blah blah blah, because that's the sort of environment I was brought up in. Guess what? No matter how much I focused on my A-levels/my degree/my job/my long term relationship, depending on which stage of life I was at, my chronic insomnia and subconscious issues increased in intensity. until I could barely function. That was when I finally accepted that I had an illness, and that it wasn't down to me being ''weak'' - I had spent years attempting to force myself to carry on pretending nothing was wrong.

    We can all act like Linford Christie in the old Lucozade adverts, shouting ''POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE'' (showing my age here), and of course it helps to have determination, etc. That's not the point.

    The point is that the brain is an organ, which can malfunction like any other. I can't imagine anybody being daft enough to tell someone with diabetes or renal problems that their problem is a ''state which (one) has sovereignity over''. If you are depressed, your brain is not producing enough serotonin. Your brain is therefore not functioning as it should be. Sweet words about ''positive thinking'' are all very well, but they don't solve the problem of the ILLNESS.

    I apologise to everyone here if it seems that I've made this ''all about me'' - that was really not my intention. I just didn't know how else to attempt to explain it without referencing my own personal experience. I hope it did not appear self-indulgent.
    Thank you for sharing your story! I know it's not ideal, but it's people like yourself who know through experience what depression is and how it can effect you who can make the real difference in these situations. They may not listen to people like me, who have never been through depression, but clearly you went through some really tough times, and hopefully by putting your story out there you can change at least one persons view on depression!

    The power of positive thinking doesn't stop someone having cancer, so i'm not sure why people think it would help when you have depression.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhoops View Post
    Not sure if geralion is getting an overly hard time on here responding to my comment about a sober mind. Don't have much contact with this poster so don't know if there's a back story to all this.

    I just know kicking the drink and sleeping and not passing out every night helped me address my demons.
    No problem redhoops - I've had crippling depression myself, not going into the details but made decisions about which path to take. I've seen other people succumb/commit suicide/recover etc -depression has many causes but none of them are helped by adding more chemicals into the equation, not long term.

    However, each one to his own - I'd rather have mastery of my mind than need a prescription and live in terror of being able to run my own life. When I say depression is a state of mind and mind is a state you can have sovereignty over I recognise its a hard path but its always in your own hands.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolforme View Post
    Thank you for sharing your story! I know it's not ideal, but it's people like yourself who know through experience what depression is and how it can effect you who can make the real difference in these situations. They may not listen to people like me, who have never been through depression, but clearly you went through some really tough times, and hopefully by putting your story out there you can change at least one persons view on depression!

    The power of positive thinking doesn't stop someone having cancer, so i'm not sure why people think it would help when you have depression.
    Positive thinking can only help so much and sometimes it doesn't help at all when you don't address the root of whatever is causing the depression. Depression can have multiple causes whether that's to do with beliefs, traumatic experiences, a lack of serotonin, chronic health issues. The mind is where it all happens so if your mind can't function then it completely stalls you.
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  9. #39  
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    Can somebody explain what depression feels like please?

    I know it's an odd question, but I really can't understand the feeling (and hope I never have to). Obviously I've had moments where I've been very down about my life but I assume that you wouldn't class that as depression seen as I did something about it and it was a result of **** in my life.
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  10. #40  
    cookygarcia is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    No problem redhoops - I've had crippling depression myself, not going into the details but made decisions about which path to take. I've seen other people succumb/commit suicide/recover etc -depression has many causes but none of them are helped by adding more chemicals into the equation, not long term.

    However, each one to his own - I'd rather have mastery of my mind than need a prescription and live in terror of being able to run my own life. When I say depression is a state of mind and mind is a state you can have sovereignty over I recognise its a hard path but its always in your own hands.
    I was about to apologise if I had misinterpreted your earlier post. However, the part I've highlighted is an incredibly patronising, judgmental (not to mention scientifically inaccurate) statement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    Can somebody explain what depression feels like please?

    I know it's an odd question, but I really can't understand the feeling (and hope I never have to). Obviously I've had moments where I've been very down about my life but I assume that you wouldn't class that as depression seen as I did something about it and it was a result of **** in my life.
    I imagine it's different for everyone. I had a friend who withdrew to her room and was 'unreachable' by other humans, when she became acute.
    I've no idea what was going around in her head, she wouldn't say.
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  12. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuzz View Post
    Positive thinking can only help so much and sometimes it doesn't help at all when you don't address the root of whatever is causing the depression. Depression can have multiple causes whether that's to do with beliefs, traumatic experiences, a lack of serotonin, chronic health issues. The mind is where it all happens so if your mind can't function then it completely stalls you.
    Yep can't argue with any of that, very good point about getting to the root of the problem and deal with the cause! Rather than just ignoring it and saying "Everything will be okay..." over and over.
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  13. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookygarcia View Post
    *deep breath*

    This is the sort of tripe that was spouted at me when I was younger, and listening to such nonsense for too long was nearly the end of me, in all honesty. I refused to take medication that I needed, in order for my brain to function as it should do, for about eight years after I attempted suicide at 16. Why didn't I have the sense to take the pills that would help me? Mainly because I was surrounded by people telling me that depression wasn't an ''illness'', but merely a state of mind. They were spouting horse manure.

    I was unwell. I refused to accept this fact, and thought I could ''shut up and get on with it'', ''pull myself together'', blah blah blah, because that's the sort of environment I was brought up in. Guess what? No matter how much I focused on my A-levels/my degree/my job/my long term relationship, depending on which stage of life I was at, my chronic insomnia and subconscious issues increased in intensity. until I could barely function. That was when I finally accepted that I had an illness, and that it wasn't down to me being ''weak'' - I had spent years attempting to force myself to carry on pretending nothing was wrong.

    We can all act like Linford Christie in the old Lucozade adverts, shouting ''POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE'' (showing my age here), and of course it helps to have determination, etc. That's not the point.

    The point is that the brain is an organ, which can malfunction like any other. I can't imagine anybody being daft enough to tell someone with diabetes or renal problems that their problem is a ''state which (one) has sovereignity over''. If you are depressed, your brain is not producing enough serotonin. Your brain is therefore not functioning as it should be. Sweet words about ''positive thinking'' are all very well, but they don't solve the problem of the ILLNESS.

    I apologise to everyone here if it seems that I've made this ''all about me'' - that was really not my intention. I just didn't know how else to attempt to explain it without referencing my own personal experience. I hope it did not appear self-indulgent.
    Thanks for sharing and I imagine this took a lot of guts to write out.

    Quote Originally Posted by redhoops View Post
    Not sure if geralion is getting an overly hard time on here responding to my comment about a sober mind. Don't have much contact with this poster so don't know if there's a back story to all this.

    I just know kicking the drink and sleeping and not passing out every night helped me address my demons.
    Of course it can help, it has helped me; however it's not 100% solved my problem and I still suffer from depression.
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  14. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookygarcia View Post
    *deep breath*

    This is the sort of tripe that was spouted at me when I was younger, and listening to such nonsense for too long was nearly the end of me, in all honesty. I refused to take medication that I needed, in order for my brain to function as it should do, for about eight years after I attempted suicide at 16. Why didn't I have the sense to take the pills that would help me? Mainly because I was surrounded by people telling me that depression wasn't an ''illness'', but merely a state of mind. They were spouting horse manure.

    I was unwell. I refused to accept this fact, and thought I could ''shut up and get on with it'', ''pull myself together'', blah blah blah, because that's the sort of environment I was brought up in. Guess what? No matter how much I focused on my A-levels/my degree/my job/my long term relationship, depending on which stage of life I was at, my chronic insomnia and subconscious issues increased in intensity. until I could barely function. That was when I finally accepted that I had an illness, and that it wasn't down to me being ''weak'' - I had spent years attempting to force myself to carry on pretending nothing was wrong.

    We can all act like Linford Christie in the old Lucozade adverts, shouting ''POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE'' (showing my age here), and of course it helps to have determination, etc. That's not the point.

    The point is that the brain is an organ, which can malfunction like any other. I can't imagine anybody being daft enough to tell someone with diabetes or renal problems that their problem is a ''state which (one) has sovereignity over''. If you are depressed, your brain is not producing enough serotonin. Your brain is therefore not functioning as it should be. Sweet words about ''positive thinking'' are all very well, but they don't solve the problem of the ILLNESS.

    I apologise to everyone here if it seems that I've made this ''all about me'' - that was really not my intention. I just didn't know how else to attempt to explain it without referencing my own personal experience. I hope it did not appear self-indulgent.
    At age 16, we undergo a spurt in neurological network growth on a level with a 3 month old - i.e its massive. The adolescent brain is in a special state and what it needs is often what it rarely gets because 14 hours sleep a day (like a 3 month old) is considered lazy... new neural paths have to settle and the brain actually shrinks a little but the time its about 20 into its adult size.

    The brain is actually a receiver - not an organ like a pump, or a mechanical thing and it doesn't function like a kidney. It has special cells which are only found in the heart elsewhere in the body. But if you see your brain as a mechanical thing then perhaps big pharma is for you.

    Being the ruler of your mind has nothing to do with positive thinking - and this is where you go very wrong.

    The mind exists on many levels - from a collective mind to the one you call your own. But is it? or is it just a flow of thoughts, most of which are not original, which flow through you like a river of stuff. You can select what you anchor onto - this is nothing to do with positive thinking - it is selective. You can choose not to be subject to thoughts by just not identifying with them - but then you also have to understand that YOU are NOT the sum of a load of junk thoughts.

    No one can et out of depression by just thinking "snap out of it" because you have to identify what you are in before you can choose to get out. At the age of 16 this would be virtually impossible f your first port of call is a GP or a psychiatrist.

    You chose to believe you have an illness. That is your choice. You chose to be the subject of an illness as defined by whom?

    Some of us choose differently.
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    cookygarcia is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Oh my. :FP:

    I was 16 a very long time ago. You failed to mention the ''eight years later'' part.

    Your analysis is irrelevant, as well as a joke in terms of factual content.

    Goodnight Seattle.
    Last edited by cookygarcia; 14-8-14 at 15:51. Reason: spelling it out in an easy to understand manner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paullfc1976 View Post
    Thanks for sharing and I imagine this took a lot of guts to write out.



    Of course it can help, it has helped me; however it's not 100% solved my problem and I still suffer from depression.
    I get you , dont think anything will 100% solve it. But its a help as you said , all help is needed. Hope you find yours .
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookygarcia View Post
    I was about to apologise if I had misinterpreted your earlier post. However, the part I've highlighted is an incredibly patronising, judgmental (not to mention scientifically inaccurate) statement.
    Sorry but "scientifically" means nothing. Which science/scientist/school of science etc etc do you mean when you use the term scientifically. Its nonsense. Its just a term which means "i'm using a term which validates my opinion more than yours.
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    Paullfc1976 is offline LFC Hall of Fame Resident
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    Quote Originally Posted by geralion View Post
    At age 16, we undergo a spurt in neurological network growth on a level with a 3 month old - i.e its massive. The adolescent brain is in a special state and what it needs is often what it rarely gets because 14 hours sleep a day (like a 3 month old) is considered lazy... new neural paths have to settle and the brain actually shrinks a little but the time its about 20 into its adult size.

    The brain is actually a receiver - not an organ like a pump, or a mechanical thing and it doesn't function like a kidney. It has special cells which are only found in the heart elsewhere in the body. But if you see your brain as a mechanical thing then perhaps big pharma is for you.

    Being the ruler of your mind has nothing to do with positive thinking - and this is where you go very wrong.

    The mind exists on many levels - from a collective mind to the one you call your own. But is it? or is it just a flow of thoughts, most of which are not original, which flow through you like a river of stuff. You can select what you anchor onto - this is nothing to do with positive thinking - it is selective. You can choose not to be subject to thoughts by just not identifying with them - but then you also have to understand that YOU are NOT the sum of a load of junk thoughts.

    No one can et out of depression by just thinking "snap out of it" because you have to identify what you are in before you can choose to get out. At the age of 16 this would be virtually impossible f your first port of call is a GP or a psychiatrist.

    You chose to believe you have an illness. That is your choice. You chose to be the subject of an illness as defined by whom?

    Some of us choose differently.
    Sorry, mate.

    Despite you going to all this effort, this is complete and utter tripe.

    You should try to be less insensitive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geralion View Post
    At age 16, we undergo a spurt in neurological network growth on a level with a 3 month old - i.e its massive. The adolescent brain is in a special state and what it needs is often what it rarely gets because 14 hours sleep a day (like a 3 month old) is considered lazy... new neural paths have to settle and the brain actually shrinks a little but the time its about 20 into its adult size.

    The brain is actually a receiver - not an organ like a pump, or a mechanical thing and it doesn't function like a kidney. It has special cells which are only found in the heart elsewhere in the body. But if you see your brain as a mechanical thing then perhaps big pharma is for you.

    Being the ruler of your mind has nothing to do with positive thinking - and this is where you go very wrong.

    The mind exists on many levels - from a collective mind to the one you call your own. But is it? or is it just a flow of thoughts, most of which are not original, which flow through you like a river of stuff. You can select what you anchor onto - this is nothing to do with positive thinking - it is selective. You can choose not to be subject to thoughts by just not identifying with them - but then you also have to understand that YOU are NOT the sum of a load of junk thoughts.

    No one can et out of depression by just thinking "snap out of it" because you have to identify what you are in before you can choose to get out. At the age of 16 this would be virtually impossible f your first port of call is a GP or a psychiatrist.

    You chose to believe you have an illness. That is your choice. You chose to be the subject of an illness as defined by whom?

    Some of us choose differently.
    I don't think you've ever experienced depression to come up with nonsense like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paullfc1976 View Post
    Thanks for sharing and I imagine this took a lot of guts to write out.



    Of course it can help, it has helped me; however it's not 100% solved my problem and I still suffer from depression.
    So do I - but I can recognise the state and I know what works for me. There;s no magic bullet or short cut.
    I've known a couple of people who couldn't take medication because they felt it numbed them too much - felt cut off from themselves - if you understand that.
    I read a v interesting book called the Noonday Demon about depression and how it is dealt with in different cultures. It seems no one is exempt at least!
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhoops View Post
    I get you , dont think anything will 100% solve it. But its a help as you said , all help is needed. Hope you find yours .
    Cheers, mate and I am glad you've still mananged to stay off the drink
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    2 years ago my brother committed suicide, in his flat, alone where he lived having separated from his wife. Adding everything up that was going on in his life - living alone after a happy marriage, his two autistic and AS spectrum sons who are unlikely to ever lead what society would refer to as a 'normal' life and his job that saw him living out of a suitcase in hotels here there and everywhere because nobody else in the office would do it - its now obvious he was suffering from depression. Yet I never suspected, and its torture to think that just a few words when he was in the country may have helped. The last I heard from him was a text saying 'Happy Birthday from Toronto', a few days later he was gone
    This wretched illness should never simply be dismissed and the sufferer told to 'man up' or whatever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuzz View Post
    I don't think you've ever experienced depression to come up with nonsense like that.
    I refuse to go into the details of my own personal history. I can direct you in the studies done - but I doubt you're really interested, you seem to have a very fixed idea which is fine if it suits you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolforme View Post
    Yep can't argue with any of that, very good point about getting to the root of the problem and deal with the cause! Rather than just ignoring it and saying "Everything will be okay..." over and over.
    Yep, you've got to get the root cause because if you don't do that, it'll never go away. You can't paper over the cracks with thinking "everything will be ok". Depression does have a lot to do with beliefs and the way you see the world but it's not as simple as that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geralion View Post
    I refuse to go into the details of my own personal history. I can direct you in the studies done - but I doubt you're really interested, you seem to have a very fixed idea which is fine if it suits you.
    I'm pretty open to things. You may have found the solution to your depression, but those same rules might not apply to everyone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickthetyres View Post
    2 years ago my brother committed suicide, in his flat, alone where he lived having separated from his wife. Adding everything up that was going on in his life - living alone after a happy marriage, his two autistic and AS spectrum sons who are unlikely to ever lead what society would refer to as a 'normal' life and his job that saw him living out of a suitcase in hotels here there and everywhere because nobody else in the office would do it - its now obvious he was suffering from depression. Yet I never suspected, and its torture to think that just a few words when he was in the country may have helped. The last I heard from him was a text saying 'Happy Birthday from Toronto', a few days later he was gone
    This wretched illness should never simply be dismissed and the sufferer told to 'man up' or whatever.
    I can understand how your brother felt - my history is not dissimilar. Your brother had more than his share of misery to cope with. This is nothing to do with manning up and I don't know who advocates that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickthetyres View Post
    2 years ago my brother committed suicide, in his flat, alone where he lived having separated from his wife. Adding everything up that was going on in his life - living alone after a happy marriage, his two autistic and AS spectrum sons who are unlikely to ever lead what society would refer to as a 'normal' life and his job that saw him living out of a suitcase in hotels here there and everywhere because nobody else in the office would do it - its now obvious he was suffering from depression. Yet I never suspected, and its torture to think that just a few words when he was in the country may have helped. The last I heard from him was a text saying 'Happy Birthday from Toronto', a few days later he was gone
    This wretched illness should never simply be dismissed and the sufferer told to 'man up' or whatever.

    Thanks for sharing your story, my condolences to you and your family.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickthetyres View Post
    2 years ago my brother committed suicide, in his flat, alone where he lived having separated from his wife. Adding everything up that was going on in his life - living alone after a happy marriage, his two autistic and AS spectrum sons who are unlikely to ever lead what society would refer to as a 'normal' life and his job that saw him living out of a suitcase in hotels here there and everywhere because nobody else in the office would do it - its now obvious he was suffering from depression. Yet I never suspected, and its torture to think that just a few words when he was in the country may have helped. The last I heard from him was a text saying 'Happy Birthday from Toronto', a few days later he was gone
    This wretched illness should never simply be dismissed and the sufferer told to 'man up' or whatever.
    Sorry to hear this
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  29. #59  
    geralion is online now Or a tiger they're almost as good
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuzz View Post
    I'm pretty open to things. You may have found the solution to your depression, but those same rules might not apply to everyone else.
    I used to teach kids with drug/psyche issues - thats how I got into the studies done with teenagers - which I referred to in my reply to cookygarcia. At age 16 (as per that post) the brain is naturally very confused.

    My own story is nothing to do with that. But lets say medication was just not my thing - had seen it in my family, along with ECT.
    Indeed not all rules apply to everyone - and everything changes.
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  30. #60  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paullfc1976 View Post
    Cheers, mate and I am glad you've still mananged to stay off the drink
    Wont lie , still have a drink but its controlled, days off or actual nights out. I could count on one hand the days per year i never drank a few years ago. Hell , one finger. It took me too long and cost me too many great girlfriends to realise the issues that drove me to hit the bottle werent going to be flushed away by its contents .

    Have no idea if i was actually suffering from depression , didnt see a doctor , but i was in a bad place for many years . Drinking made it a harder place to leave.
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