Notices
Reply to Thread
Page 12 of 12 FirstFirst ... 2101112
Results 331 to 348 of 348

Thread: The importance of Lucas.

  1. #331  
    fredthecamel is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    36,997
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemer View Post
    Never late to respond, I hope.

    First, you'd be amazed at amount of people thinking a new CB alone will fix the defense, I guess you just don't pay attention. When asked who they'd bring, most omitt to mention a defensive midfielder, some (you included) think not even a first choice leftback may be needed.

    The rest of your post suggests you didn't even bother to read my post, you just entered your typical jester mode.
    I think I was clear enough to highlight that I (me) would be happy to have Lucas around here, but that I am fully aware it is ultimatively Klopp's decision to make, not ours. I think I was also clear enough to say it might be a ball-winning or a playmaking type of DM, which again depends on Klopp.
    What I did suggest, though, is that we bring someone who is quality and more natural in playing that deeper position, rather than relying solely on converted box-to-box midfielders like we currently do - as much as they look OK-eish.

    I've read the other day your hypothesis on coaching and that it takes you only that far as good the player is. The topic was started around our GK coach, but you took the example on Suarez and how his effectiveness was uncoachable. Same can be applied to our DM situation too, really. The defensive positioning and marking, tackling, progressive recycling of the ball ... you can only partially coach that into Henderson and Can to fit into that role, but a quality natural player will simply excel.
    Our opinions may differ, but one of my priorities would be to bring a quality DM like he had in Bender at Dortmund. I believe it is important role, or an option at least, as seen in recent games with Lucas. Now, watching our transfer rumors, with Ox or Keita being linked (not suggesting they are definite ones) ... they don't fit that midfielder profile, at all.
    i think three top clss signing for those three positions nd karius reinstted and our prime defensive issues are sorted ... however the dm must also be able to link swiftly to ttack and be very comfy in possesion... and there are a number of players out there that suit that mould... babayoko at monaco keita at leipzig....nd others.... we haven had a strong designated defensive midfield option in years....

    a top class left bakc like kolasinic who is on a free and a top centre back like koulibaly or howedes or tah and i think we are in business....total cost to fix the defense 50 million ish...

    aswell as milner had done at left back he doesnt favour getting to the endline , a top class left back would.... that would make a difference to our attacking play

    then add 2 attacking options to the squad esp for wider areas and thats my summer business done....total cost 40-50 million

    gonna take about 100 million to sort this team out in my estimation
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  2. #332  
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    589
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    I wrote a piece about Lucas a few years back discussing what works for Lucas and why. He's a player with limited passing ability. He can be accurate but very slow and simple passing. It's actually more effective for a counter attacking game when the opposition push men forward and you recover possession and use the space.

    This was often why Lucas played better in big games for us. There was also another reason. Space. Lucas is a slow footballer. The more expansive you play, the more space you create around him he's an accident waiting to happen. Fouls, beaten with ease it just doesn't work.

    However if you condense the space around him, this allows him to utilise his strong anticipation. For example I said under Rodgers he'd lose the importance he'd developed under Kenny and Hodgson to a degree. Hodgson played defensively and compact with two holding and that is ideal for Lucas.

    His best form was under Kenny partnered with Spearing, two holding players again. A stand out exception under Rodgers was the game against Spurs away. Lucas absolutely wasn't great in that much but much more effective because Spurs played 3 centre mids, we played 3 centre mids and that's 6 players with no space in the middle of the park.

    With no width and our full backs being pushed forward Lucas now finds himself with less space around him with Can and Wijnaldum close by. He's nowhere near the list of best holding players even for defensive skills. Most of our players are not the best in the world.

    He needs specific conditions to bring the best out of him and it is usually in more defensive styles. As soon as we want to play expansive football he has neither the pace to cover nor the technical ability or passing intelligence to run a game from deep.

    We have had just a couple of title challenges in the past decade and both came as a result of Lucas not starting. A viable option for the squad, a great servant but no possibility he could take the club forward as a starter.
    Fabulous post ....the club now needs to bring in the players to suit Klopp and LFC , not LFC play to suit individual players unless your Messi or Ronaldo who could adapt anyway .
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  3. #333  
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    5,505
    Quote Originally Posted by fredthecamel View Post
    i think three top clss signing for those three positions nd karius reinstted and our prime defensive issues are sorted ... however the dm must also be able to link swiftly to ttack and be very comfy in possesion... and there are a number of players out there that suit that mould... babayoko at monaco keita at leipzig....nd others.... we haven had a strong designated defensive midfield option in years....

    a top class left bakc like kolasinic who is on a free and a top centre back like koulibaly or howedes or tah and i think we are in business....total cost to fix the defense 50 million ish...

    aswell as milner had done at left back he doesnt favour getting to the endline , a top class left back would.... that would make a difference to our attacking play

    then add 2 attacking options to the squad esp for wider areas and thats my summer business done....total cost 40-50 million

    gonna take about 100 million to sort this team out in my estimation
    I think it woud be little above 100 mil mark, but I do agree with you overall. Five players is probably what we should be looking into: CB, LB, DM, CM/CAM & a Winger.

    Not sure I'd class Keita a DM (for me, he's more of a goalscoring box-to-box), but Bakayoko is a decent shout. However, the DM gameplay can be different - either as deeplying playmaker (like we wanted from Dahoud, and transformed Henderson into) or a destroyer type (such as Lucas, but who is lacking pace to be efficient enough). I can understand both roles and why Klopp would look into. Personally, if we sell Lucas, I'd want a physical sweeper type but either way - I'd just want someone who is quality and natural in that position, not another converted experiment.

    I can understand if there's no other solution available, but no sane person would be cheering this idea for next season. I am really not fan of conversions; Brendan had those gaffs too. How would anyone expect a team with Lucas as converted CB, Milner as converted LB, Hendo/Can as converted DM is solid and good enough to challenge for it? Too many uncomfortable figures is just too much of a risk.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  4. #334  
    fredthecamel is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    36,997
    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemer View Post
    I think it woud be little above 100 mil mark, but I do agree with you overall. Five players is probably what we should be looking into: CB, LB, DM, CM/CAM & a Winger.

    Not sure I'd class Keita a DM (for me, he's more of a goalscoring box-to-box), but Bakayoko is a decent shout. However, the DM gameplay can be different - either as deeplying playmaker (like we wanted from Dahoud, and transformed Henderson into) or a destroyer type (such as Lucas, but who is lacking pace to be efficient enough). I can understand both roles and why Klopp would look into. Personally, if we sell Lucas, I'd want a physical sweeper type but either way - I'd just want someone who is quality and natural in that position, not another converted experiment.

    I can understand if there's no other solution available, but no sane person would be cheering this idea for next season. I am really not fan of conversions; Brendan had those gaffs too. How would anyone expect a team with Lucas as converted CB, Milner as converted LB, Hendo/Can as converted DM is solid and good enough to challenge for it? Too many uncomfortable figures is just too much of a risk.
    bbayoko can do both roles as def midfielder, his distribution is quite good along with his tackling.... and he d add aerial power in offense and defense
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  5. #335  
    MrDilkington is online now Academy prospect
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    19,981
    I cannot see us signing five first team players, I think it will be a couple of first team players and a few more ifs that might come good one day and make the grade.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  6. #336  
    Coach791 is online now First team regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    33,157
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewy3958 View Post
    Fabulous post ....the club now needs to bring in the players to suit Klopp and LFC , not LFC play to suit individual players unless your Messi or Ronaldo who could adapt anyway .
    Thanks Lewy. There's a tendency from fans (myself included) so simply assess everything on ability. We all want quality but there is an intensity and tactical intelligence you need to play a Klopp system. When Klopp has a squad of 20 players he can select from with the qualities he wants things will significantly improve.

    It will be interesting to see which young players develop as well. Some may surprise us if they adapt to Klopp's plan better than we imagine.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  7. #337  
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,008
    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    Thanks Lewy. There's a tendency from fans (myself included) so simply assess everything on ability. We all want quality but there is an intensity and tactical intelligence you need to play a Klopp system. When Klopp has a squad of 20 players he can select from with the qualities he wants things will significantly improve.

    It will be interesting to see which young players develop as well. Some may surprise us if they adapt to Klopp's plan better than we imagine.
    It'd be interesting to see those young players now before the summer. What happened to Kevin Stewart f.ex.? Also.. Spearing had miserable time paired up with lucas, like most other young midfielders, cause he constantly put them under pressure with his passing. It's just beyond me why some people refuse to see past his boastful Echo articles. What's he on? 80k/w? and he doesn't complain? with his amazing skill set and physical attributes? he must be a true legend..
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  8. #338  
    Warten Auf 19 is offline Another New User Name
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    15,046
    Lucas certainly has great importance. He gives the opposition a clear weakness to exploit.
    "Nobody can beat us!" - Jurgen Klopp. 31/01/2017.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  9. #339  
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    5,505
    Quote Originally Posted by Warten Auf 19 View Post
    Lucas certainly has great importance. He gives the opposition a clear weakness to exploit.
    Yeah, players just ran through our midfield. But certainly, if anything, today must've been an eyeopener for some posters - a young and athletic DM is a must, because the defensive line is crap.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  10. #340  
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    24,547
    Nice to see Lucas honoured for years at Anfield last night
    https://www.thisisanfield.com/2017/0...rs-merseyside/
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  11. #341  
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    788
    I didn't think lucas was involved enough in our attack wasn't able to play the passes forward like he was the last 2 matches prior.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  12. #342  
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,229
    Lucas is very good....for the opponent.
    To be fair, he sometime is good for us too, but not nearly enough for him to have stuck around for sooo long.

    When he leaves, we won't have much trouble replacing him, lets just put it that way.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  13. #343  
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    788
    Quote Originally Posted by DaShanks View Post
    Lucas is very good....for the opponent.
    To be fair, he sometime is good for us too, but not nearly enough for him to have stuck around for sooo long.

    When he leaves, we won't have much trouble replacing him, lets just put it that way.
    no thanks.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  14. #344  
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    589
    Quote Originally Posted by moujik View Post
    It'd be interesting to see those young players now before the summer. What happened to Kevin Stewart f.ex.? Also.. Spearing had miserable time paired up with lucas, like most other young midfielders, cause he constantly put them under pressure with his passing. It's just beyond me why some people refuse to see past his boastful Echo articles. What's he on? 80k/w? and he doesn't complain? with his amazing skill set and physical attributes? he must be a true legend..
    They had a dinner for him at Anfield last night for the 10 years service , when i look back at players i want to see what they won in their time here ....that alone tells you how successful they were .

    What im not interested in ....is how much of a nice lad they are , winners have that inbuilt streak that separates them from the pack ......being a nice lad does nothing for this club ....period .

    I truly hope Lucas finally accepts his time here is over , but i have thoughts that Klopp doesnt want to be the one to end his time here ....... and may even give him a new 2 to 3 year contract
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  15. #345  
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,992
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewy3958 View Post
    They had a dinner for him at Anfield last night for the 10 years service , when i look back at players i want to see what they won in their time here ....that alone tells you how successful they were .

    What im not interested in ....is how much of a nice lad they are , winners have that inbuilt streak that separates them from the pack ......being a nice lad does nothing for this club ....period .

    I truly hope Lucas finally accepts his time here is over , but i have thoughts that Klopp doesnt want to be the one to end his time here ....... and may even give him a new 2 to 3 year contract
    We need to expand the squad some to deal with the extra fixtures next year. Letting him leave just adds one more spot we need to fill with a new face or unproven youth. If he's happy to stay as a deep cover/cup player for a season or two I can see Klopp being happy to have him. One less hole to fill since we already have a good half dozen before departures are considered.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  16. #346  
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    589
    Quote Originally Posted by Bri_Bates View Post
    We need to expand the squad some to deal with the extra fixtures next year. Letting him leave just adds one more spot we need to fill with a new face or unproven youth. If he's happy to stay as a deep cover/cup player for a season or two I can see Klopp being happy to have him. One less hole to fill since we already have a good half dozen before departures are considered.
    Yes but the guy cant run ....so why keep a guy that is immobile , yes he can sit at the back all day knocking 10 yard passes left and right ......but the so called Gengenpressen and quick movement is were he falls down .

    Rather have fit youngsters who are hungry to make a name for themselves
    Last edited by Lewy3958; 26-4-17 at 10:18.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  17. #347  
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    13,623
    Lucas is very important player.
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   

  18. #348  
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    20,408
    Lucas needs to leave...he's been a good servant to the club but it's time
    Reply With Quote   Quick reply to this message   Report Post   



Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •