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Thread: The importance of Lucas.

  1. #31  
    BearWithMe is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daikokujin View Post
    The way Dembele was just doing pretty much whatever he wanted in midfield shows the importance of Lucas.
    or the importance of buying Dembele!
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  2. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAL 58 View Post
    Exactly people are only crying for Lucas because we have played SG in there , last season when we were tearing teams apart & Lucas wasnt involved ...the ones who are championing his cause now were saying " get rid " , too slow , etc .

    This is another aspect of " only seeing what you want to see " . Allen is more mobile than Lucas ...and has a better array of passing .

    Get Can & Hendo in there now ...leave them there and the name Lucas will be a distant memory .

    Which reminds me " how have we managed for the 40 plus years before Lucas came here " ? oh yes thats right we had some of the best midfielders in Europe .
    Why the Lucas Hate?

    He is a major reason for our season taking a turn for the better...
    Credit where it's due.

    No-one is saying he is the best option for now and always, just with the current players and system.
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearWithMe View Post
    or the importance of buying Dembele!
    Is that you, Oscar?
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  4. #34  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearWithMe View Post
    or the importance of buying Dembele!
    Another player who shows up around 2 or 3 times a season...and then is dross the rest of the time.

    The Belgian Diame.
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Faizan- View Post
    Definitely missed him last night, we were too open in the middle of the park for my liking and Spurs exploited it to some degree.
    Did we win & get 3 points last night .....errrrrrrr yes , the time to worry is if were losing .....period .
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  6. #36  
    raybarnes is offline Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAL 58 View Post
    Did we win & get 3 points last night .....errrrrrrr yes , the time to worry is if were losing .....period .
    They moan win lose or draw
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAL 58 View Post
    Did we win & get 3 points last night .....errrrrrrr yes , the time to worry is if were losing .....period .
    We did win yes, however I believe if your favourite player in Lucas played other night, we would have been alot more compact and hard to brake down in the middle of the park.
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  8. #38  
    SouthernRob is offline Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedHed2 View Post
    Is that you, Oscar?
    Hey at least I got your literature reference
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernRob View Post
    Hey at least I got your literature reference
    Finally!
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  10. #40  
    SouthernRob is offline Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernRob View Post
    Hey at least I got your literature reference
    And it was even smarter than first appeared....

    Dembele left Fulham in 2012 and so did Pavel Pogrebnyak who went on to join Reading......
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernRob View Post
    And it was even smarter than first appeared....

    Dembele left Fulham in 2012 and so did Pavel Pogrebnyak who went on to join Reading......
    No way! That bit was completely unintentional, I reluctantly admit...
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  12. #42  
    SouthernRob is offline Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedHed2 View Post
    No way! That bit was completely unintentional, I reluctantly admit...
    Tenuous at best
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernRob View Post
    Tenuous at best
    At best... but still, kudos for seeing the connection.
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  14. #44  
    Jur-Gone is online now Previous username 'Klopp-OUT' just for reference
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    Every time Lucas is our main man in midfield, we finish 7th-8th.

    When we had Mascherano, we finished 2nd. Last season we had Gerrard and finished 2nd again.

    This season Lucas has been our 'most important' midfielder and we've been 7th forever.

    The sooner we replace him with a top DM the better
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  15. #45  
    SouthernRob is offline Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suso View Post
    Every time Lucas is our main man in midfield, we finish 7th-8th.

    When we had Mascherano, we finished 2nd. Last season we had Gerrard and finished 2nd again.

    This season Lucas has been our 'most important' midfielder and we've been 7th forever.

    The sooner we replace him with a top DM the better
    You don't think it was because in 2009 we had the best striker in the world in Torres, and last season we had the best striker in the world in Suarez?
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  16. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suso View Post
    Every time Lucas is our main man in midfield, we finish 7th-8th.

    When we had Mascherano, we finished 2nd. Last season we had Gerrard and finished 2nd again.

    This season Lucas has been our 'most important' midfielder and we've been 7th forever.

    The sooner we replace him with a top DM the better
    'This season' is not one thing, it's a collection of small things- matches. He's been involved in most of the ones we've done well in.

    I do think he can be upgraded on, but he's been integral to our upsurge in recent months. And was missed the other night when we were sitting deep and flat as Spurs came at us.
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  17. #47  
    davevietnam is online now Academy prospect
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    I think Lucas has been a sensation since he returned to the team and deserved all the plaudits given, actually feel pretty good myself as well as I have been championing the use of a proper DM for 3 years now [even when Gerrard was doing well and playing back there] and I think its been pretty much proven beyond doubt how affective its been, certainly defense wise.

    What I do see a lot of is fans now wanting to see Can play in that DM position, no doubt he will and be a success, but he is not a DM, he is a HM, for sure if Can plays as a HM the team will score more goals but we will also concede more [think Gerrard last season all though obviously not as exaggerated].

    The difference between a defensive and holding midfielder is a lot bigger than some people think, one is a spoiler and one a creator and each has a totally different approach to the game, for me Can would be perfect to play alongside Lucas not instead of him, even more so with the attacking midfield talent we have in front of them [Sterling Couts and Lallana].
    Of course that would put Hendoís place in doubt and that would mean him taking Allenís place in the squad, but is that such a bad thing.
    Just hope we get the chance to see Lucas or his DM replacement play alongside Can.
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  18. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suso View Post
    Every time Lucas is our main man in midfield, we finish 7th-8th.
    I
    When we had Mascherano, we finished 2nd. Last season we had Gerrard and finished 2nd again.

    This season Lucas has been our 'most important' midfielder and we've been 7th forever.

    The sooner we replace him with a top DM the better
    Umm, are you talking about the season in which Mascherano made 27 league appearances to Lucas's 25? Are you saying the 2 league games difference accounted for us finishing 2nd?
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  19. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suso View Post
    Every time Lucas is our main man in midfield, we finish 7th-8th.

    When we had Mascherano, we finished 2nd. Last season we had Gerrard and finished 2nd again.

    This season Lucas has been our 'most important' midfielder and we've been 7th forever.

    The sooner we replace him with a top DM the better
    This made me chuckle.
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    This formation has absolutely suited Lucas better and his performances have been very good. I've been a critic of Lucas under Rodgers, certainly when holding alone because if his technical limitations. When holding alone you have a lot of space to cover and he's slow, you are charged with starting passing transitions and he can't, it is always a safe ball back or side.

    However I have always said in my criticisms that there are ways to get the best out of Lucas. If you pair him with somebody in a two holding that cuts down the distance has to cover which helps with his pace. Also if he can give the ball quickly to somebody else to start the transition it works better.

    If you look back at his more influential performances be it Mascherano, Meireles, Spearing or Henderson there was always somebody more mobile helping him cover the ground. When this happens and there's somebody chasing around it allows him to use his intelligence and anticipation and pick up the pieces and snap into tackles which he does very well.

    He was one of the main people to benefit from this system change. In the diamond he couldn't control the passing like Gerrard to stretch opposition and he couldn't cover ground Allen and Henderson could.

    However in this system he's done really well but it's not an upturn in form we just play a way better suited to his game now.
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  21. #51  
    davevietnam is online now Academy prospect
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    Thing is I can never recollect hardly any successful team [going right back to Nobby with England] who have not had a Lucas type player in it, the only exceptions have been teams with a truly world class CM player instead, thinking Gerard Keane and Viera.

    By Lucas type I mean a spoiler, not really even a what you would call a good footballer, at times I have even called him crap, his first thought is to disrupt play not create it, the player I most think Lucas reminds me of is David Batty, god he got some stick, but if it had not been for Keegan and his inept management Batty would have won three winners medals with 3 different clubs, that don’t happen by accident, I think fans who don’t like Lucas don’t appreciate what he brings to the team, it’s a sort of selfless mentality that is more appreciated by his team mates than the fans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davevietnam View Post
    Thing is I can never recollect hardly any successful team [going right back to Nobby with England] who have not had a Lucas type player in it, the only exceptions have been teams with a truly world class CM player instead, thinking Gerard Keane and Viera.

    By Lucas type I mean a spoiler, not really even a what you would call a good footballer, at times I have even called him crap, his first thought is to disrupt play not create it, the player I most think Lucas reminds me of is David Batty, god he got some stick, but if it had not been for Keegan and his inept management Batty would have won three winners medals with 3 different clubs, that don’t happen by accident, I think fans who don’t like Lucas don’t appreciate what he brings to the team, it’s a sort of selfless mentality that is more appreciated by his team mates than the fans.
    This ^^^
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  23. #53  
    fredthecamel is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suso View Post
    Every time Lucas is our main man in midfield, we finish 7th-8th.

    When we had Mascherano, we finished 2nd. Last season we had Gerrard and finished 2nd again.

    This season Lucas has been our 'most important' midfielder and we've been 7th forever.

    The sooner we replace him with a top DM the better
    yeap its all lucas s fault that we finish 7th
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredthecamel View Post
    yeap its all lucas s fault that we finish 7th
    like you say every goal conceded, all the times the woodwork was hit that season all Lucas's fault. For those of you that watch pawn stars as the old man says" some peoples children's"
    Last edited by scotty road; 13-2-15 at 13:48.
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Faizan- View Post
    We did win yes, however I believe if your favourite player in Lucas played other night, we would have been alot more compact and hard to brake down in the middle of the park.
    If If If If If If If If If ...............
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  26. #56  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suso View Post
    Every time Lucas is our main man in midfield, we finish 7th-8th.

    When we had Mascherano, we finished 2nd. Last season we had Gerrard and finished 2nd again.

    This season Lucas has been our 'most important' midfielder and we've been 7th forever.

    The sooner we replace him with a top DM the better
    Welcome to the real world ....we have been an average PL side for oh yes 8 years in that time Lucas has won nothing .

    Your right last season when we finished 2nd... He wasnt involved for most of it .

    But hey twitter , Instagram are good ways at pulling at daft LFC supporters heart strings
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAL 58 View Post
    Welcome to the real world ....we have been an average PL side for oh yes 8 years in that time Lucas has won nothing .

    Your right last season when we finished 2nd... He wasnt involved for most of it .

    But hey twitter , Instagram are good ways at pulling at daft LFC supporters heart strings
    J'Adore Lucas 58
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  28. #58  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    This formation has absolutely suited Lucas better and his performances have been very good. I've been a critic of Lucas under Rodgers, certainly when holding alone because if his technical limitations. When holding alone you have a lot of space to cover and he's slow, you are charged with starting passing transitions and he can't, it is always a safe ball back or side.

    However I have always said in my criticisms that there are ways to get the best out of Lucas. If you pair him with somebody in a two holding that cuts down the distance has to cover which helps with his pace. Also if he can give the ball quickly to somebody else to start the transition it works better.

    If you look back at his more influential performances be it Mascherano, Meireles, Spearing or Henderson there was always somebody more mobile helping him cover the ground. When this happens and there's somebody chasing around it allows him to use his intelligence and anticipation and pick up the pieces and snap into tackles which he does very well.

    He was one of the main people to benefit from this system change. In the diamond he couldn't control the passing like Gerrard to stretch opposition and he couldn't cover ground Allen and Henderson could.

    However in this system he's done really well but it's not an upturn in form we just play a way better suited to his game now.
    That is a well written & well explained statement ...no doubt many will try to rip it to bits , but you are so right the system changed not Lucas's form .
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    Quote Originally Posted by davevietnam View Post
    Thing is I can never recollect hardly any successful team [going right back to Nobby with England] who have not had a Lucas type player in it, the only exceptions have been teams with a truly world class CM player instead, thinking Gerard Keane and Viera.

    By Lucas type I mean a spoiler, not really even a what you would call a good footballer, at times I have even called him crap, his first thought is to disrupt play not create it, the player I most think Lucas reminds me of is David Batty, god he got some stick, but if it had not been for Keegan and his inept management Batty would have won three winners medals with 3 different clubs, that don’t happen by accident, I think fans who don’t like Lucas don’t appreciate what he brings to the team, it’s a sort of selfless mentality that is more appreciated by his team mates than the fans.

    Dave you know my true feelings about Lucas i post them here often enough , and i totally agree with your statement about Clubs having these " unsung hero's" as their known .

    My beef is that for 8 years now we have stuck with him , he arrived as an AM got absolutely slated by LFC fans and Benitez forced him to play the DM position .

    Over the 8 years he has been here ...when in the side LFC has won nothing , over the 8 years many fans have cried out for an upgrade on him ...a better DM , more mobile , better technically . but the managers at the said times have ignored it .

    Sadly for them Managers their tenure came to an end , now im not saying its Lucas's fault alone ...but around every corner is someone better than the last guy .
    The fact is that if Lucas is the holding DM on his own , his lack of pace , lack of technique and his lack of awareness are all highlighted ...so basically whichever Manager has or does play him , they have to put someone alongside him to do his running and help him out ...that in itself means we are using 2 players for one postion .

    Where as with the likes of Matic, Schniederlin etc they boss that position on their own ....freeing up the other midfielder to get forward and support the attack .

    If we get a proper Top class DM people will then realise why ive harped on about it ...and why we will start winning / challenging for titles again .
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  30. #60  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedHed2 View Post
    J'Adore Lucas 58
    Fancy meeting for a coffee & a chat ?
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