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Thread: Do I Not Vote Or Do I Vote?

  1. #1 Post Do I Not Vote Or Do I Vote? 
    Socratease is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    I could not give a dandelion, a daisy, a rose, a weed or an orchid in what you may perceive as being, "a-politic (no opinion in politics)' in reference to voting if you think by not voting you will make a difference ~ your not voting is a long lasting lost passive aggressiveness into nothing.!

    This is what is hoped for by the power brokers - apathy.

    I have just moved house and I have worked hard to make sure that I have my democratic vote for myself and my missus/other half. Email confirmed by the local council today.


    Billy Connolly (comedian) once joked about politicians to not encourage/vote for them as it only encourages them as they are/were idiots!

    Russell Brand (comedian) followed on with the wit in todays/moderntimes about the context of political parties being without passion (in my own personal opinion all of them wearing interchangeable rosettes on their lapels when it comes to votes) and he asks why bother?

    Automony?

    It is a joke on you and us if you refuse to vote in the electoral process.




    If you do not vote because you cannot be bothered about our society - well do not vote.

    If you can not look outside of your front door and wish for something better - then do not vote.

    If you are wrapped up in your immediate/collloquial vision - then do not vote.

    If you are happy to just cope with the crap situation out there - then do not vote.

    If you are complacent with your present situation - then do not vote.

    If you can not be bothered because you feel you can not make difference - then do not vote.




    What if you disagree with the powers that be - do you not wish to object - or do you allow yourself to become the object/recipient of the powers that be - as the status quo?




    If you not vote you perpetuate a status quo.

    If you do not vote you disenfranchise yourself and your family.

    If you do not vote you minimize democracy.

    If you do not vote you minimizse your community.

    .


    What you must consider is what if I and many others do actually decide to vote.



    Many people have fought, died and loved for our right to vote - is it not incumbent upon us that we get off our backsides to at least mark a slash and a backstroke (X) on a ballot paper?



    Do I not vote or do I vote, considering the aspect of this very hard for fight to allow me to do so ~ I will vote.




    I am going to vote in the next election ~




    I hope you take this right seriously to do so to.....




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    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates.
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  2. #2  
    Socratease is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Vote!




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    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates.
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  3. #3  
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    I believe everybody should vote.

    However, I believe the right to choose whether or not to vote is important. I don't think I should impose my values on others.

    If I choose to vote and others do not and those who represent my values hold office then those others have no right to complain.
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  4. #4  
    Socratease is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    I believe everybody should vote.

    However, I believe the right to choose whether or not to vote is important
    . I don't think I should impose my values on others.

    If I choose to vote and others do not and those who represent my values hold office then those others have no right to complain.

    Good.

    Surely one's values should be shared and discussed?




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    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates.
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  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socratease View Post

    Surely one's values should be shared and discussed?




    ,
    Yes, first sentence. Context
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  6. #6  
    Socratease is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    However, I believe the right to choose whether or not to vote is important.


    My concern here is the option to not to choose to vote or to actually choose to vote as a freely given on a silver plate.

    Democracy is hard fought for, some seek to silence the voice of the general public as we somehow cannot discern that we are capable of understanding that the Tories are slowly dismantiing the NHS as being set up to fail bit by bit and thus offer it out, bit by bit to the private sector.

    However, I believe the right to choose whether or not to vote is important.
    What if you do not have the right at all to vote?

    What if you have no say at all whatsoever?

    I contend that you must vote, I disagree that if you can not be bothered to vote is a right as a premise to not to vote.

    I will not say that this viewpoint is lazy in not voting, however, I would highlight that in ancient Athens many people were corralled into voting areas to vote with dyed cloth to be noted if they tried not to vote.

    I think what you are trying to say is, "I choose whether to vote or not." , I ask that everyone departs from apathy and not just allow things to happen.



    All I ask is get to the polling booths and vote!




    ,
    Last edited by Socratease; 21-2-15 at 00:20.
    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates.
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  7. #7  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    If you have been a "traditional" Labour voter and you dont like what you have seen ... since New Labour under Blair... to Brown... to Miliband.... then the best thing you can do is to let them know in no uncertain terms why and the things you do not like about the current Labour Party ... now. Before it is too late.
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  8. #8  
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    Vote..but spoil yr ballot paper. Then it is a registered vote. BUT you might want to vote for a party as yre in a constituency which matters or you just want to add yr vote to the winning candidates maj.
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  9. #9  
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    There are other means of being politically active, they can even be a-political.

    Grass roots campaigns are what get my attention at the moment. Perhaps democracy could head this way. Rather than vote for someone once every 4 years and then have them make all the decisions, even some which they said they wouldn't, without having a say in the interim is just a sham.

    Exposed: the government isnít just turning a blind eye to tax-dodgers. Itís actually helping them.

    The government has rubber-stamped a legal loophole that allows millionaire finance bosses to pay a lower rate of tax than many nurses and teachers. Itís government-sponsored tax avoidance, and itís losing us up to £700 million a year. [1]

    The scandal is making waves in the news today. [2] Itís the latest in a string of tax-dodging headlines - and Osborneís position is getting weaker by the day. [3] A huge people-powered petition now will show Osborne that he needs to cracks down on tax-dodging - and that starts with closing the Mayfair loophole. Please sign the petition:


    SIGN THE PETITION

    38 Degrees members exposed this scandal. Hundreds of thousands of 38 Degrees members voted to get this campaign going. And almost 6,000 of us chipped in to fund experts and lawyers to investigate, produce an explosive report, and work out how to fix the law. [4] Now we know the truth, and itís down to us to get this loophole closed.

    Our people-powered report proves that tackling tax avoidance isnít rocket science. We already know what simple change to the law weíd need. [5] Now, itís a question of whose side George Osborne is on.

    With tax dodging all over the news, heís desperate to convince the public heíll crack down on it - but so far heís coming off badly. [6] Todayís outrageous scandal has given Osborne even more bad press on tax dodging. Just weeks before the election, heís desperate to shut this debate down - and a huge petition is the last thing he wants. Please add your name:


    SIGN THE PETITION

    38 Degrees members fight for fairness. Itís hard to believe that money which should be funding the NHS is going to millionaire finance bosses instead. Standing together against this Mayfair loophole will show that when it comes to tax dodging, the fightís only just begun.


    Thanks for being involved,

    Amy, Nat, Bex, Laura and the 38 Degrees team


    PS: This week, a journalist from The Telegraph resigned. He said that the paper buried stories about HSBC and tax dodging because it was worried about losing advertising revenue. He spoke to 38 Degrees to explain what happened. You can watch the video here:
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/Peter-Oborne


    NOTES:
    [1] 38 Degrees report: Getting serious: how the UK government helps private equity executives to pay lower tax rates than nurses and teachers, and what could be done about it:
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/clos...oophole-report
    This report was funded by almost 6000 38 Degrees members, after hundreds of thousands of us voted to get the campaign going. Read the full report here (the first page gives a good summary).
    The Independent: Private equity bosses using £700m tax 'loophole' - and donating to the Tories:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10054911.html
    Mirror: Fatcat fund managers dodge £700 million in tax every year because of loophole:
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...illion-5187932
    [2] Here's a photo of the papers today - the mayfair loophole which 38 Degrees members have exposed:

    [3] Guardian: George Osborne under pressure from Vince Cable over HSBC scandal:
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/...r-hsbc-scandal
    [4] 38 Degrees blog: Mayfair loophole: Should we campaign?
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/loophole-poll-results
    [5] Page 13 of the 38 Degrees report gives a proposed amendment to Finance Bill 2015 - to close the mayfair loophole by taxing "carried interest" as ordinary income:
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/clos...oophole-report
    [6] Daily Mail: "I probably shouldn't be advocating this": Video of a young George Osborne advising voters how to dodge taxes unearthed':
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...unearthed.html
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  10. #10  
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    What happens if you are in the constituency of Buckingham (John Bercow's seat)? By convention none of the major parties will (usually) stand against the speaker of the house. Currently the seat is being contested between him and a UKIP Candidate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghyllred View Post
    Vote..but spoil yr ballot paper. Then it is a registered vote. BUT you might want to vote for a party as yre in a constituency which matters or you just want to add yr vote to the winning candidates maj.
    Agreed, as it shows that you wish to engage in the voting process but consider every person on the ballot does not deserve your vote.

    There is also another reason why people should at least be seen as voting and that is the parties' reactions to expected voter apathy. Due to they will have an idea of the level of their support from all types of groups e.g. the grey or student vote.

    So if they have to choose at pleasing some groups over others they will probably decide to go with the groups with lowe voter apathy as they know those people will vote.
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  11. #11  
    -SilkySkills- is offline First team regular
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    I won't be voting
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  12. #12  
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    Personally I think you should vote but it's peoples own prerogative.

    Quite often your local constituencies do actually have some differing views on some local services that actually make quite a big difference to your local area, so even if you hate mainstream politics and believe nothing will change nationally then at least think locally
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  13. #13  
    grevsmoker is online now Academy prospect
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    'None of the above' is an option on the ballot in my country. I've cast a 'none of the above' vote on a few occasions.
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  14. #14  
    Socratease is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    There are other means of being politically active, they can even be a-political.

    Grass roots campaigns are what get my attention at the moment. Perhaps democracy could head this way. Rather than vote for someone once every 4 years and then have them make all the decisions, even some which they said they wouldn't, without having a say in the interim is just a sham.

    Exposed: the government isnít just turning a blind eye to tax-dodgers. Itís actually helping them.

    The government has rubber-stamped a legal loophole that allows millionaire finance bosses to pay a lower rate of tax than many nurses and teachers. Itís government-sponsored tax avoidance, and itís losing us up to £700 million a year. [1]

    The scandal is making waves in the news today. [2] Itís the latest in a string of tax-dodging headlines - and Osborneís position is getting weaker by the day. [3] A huge people-powered petition now will show Osborne that he needs to cracks down on tax-dodging - and that starts with closing the Mayfair loophole. Please sign the petition:


    SIGN THE PETITION

    38 Degrees members exposed this scandal. Hundreds of thousands of 38 Degrees members voted to get this campaign going. And almost 6,000 of us chipped in to fund experts and lawyers to investigate, produce an explosive report, and work out how to fix the law. [4] Now we know the truth, and itís down to us to get this loophole closed.

    Our people-powered report proves that tackling tax avoidance isnít rocket science. We already know what simple change to the law weíd need. [5] Now, itís a question of whose side George Osborne is on.

    With tax dodging all over the news, heís desperate to convince the public heíll crack down on it - but so far heís coming off badly. [6] Todayís outrageous scandal has given Osborne even more bad press on tax dodging. Just weeks before the election, heís desperate to shut this debate down - and a huge petition is the last thing he wants. Please add your name:


    SIGN THE PETITION

    38 Degrees members fight for fairness. Itís hard to believe that money which should be funding the NHS is going to millionaire finance bosses instead. Standing together against this Mayfair loophole will show that when it comes to tax dodging, the fightís only just begun.


    Thanks for being involved,

    Amy, Nat, Bex, Laura and the 38 Degrees team


    PS: This week, a journalist from The Telegraph resigned. He said that the paper buried stories about HSBC and tax dodging because it was worried about losing advertising revenue. He spoke to 38 Degrees to explain what happened. You can watch the video here:
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/Peter-Oborne


    NOTES:
    [1] 38 Degrees report: Getting serious: how the UK government helps private equity executives to pay lower tax rates than nurses and teachers, and what could be done about it:
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/clos...oophole-report
    This report was funded by almost 6000 38 Degrees members, after hundreds of thousands of us voted to get the campaign going. Read the full report here (the first page gives a good summary).
    The Independent: Private equity bosses using £700m tax 'loophole' - and donating to the Tories:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10054911.html
    Mirror: Fatcat fund managers dodge £700 million in tax every year because of loophole:
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...illion-5187932
    [2] Here's a photo of the papers today - the mayfair loophole which 38 Degrees members have exposed:

    [3] Guardian: George Osborne under pressure from Vince Cable over HSBC scandal:
    http://www.theguardian.com/business/...r-hsbc-scandal
    [4] 38 Degrees blog: Mayfair loophole: Should we campaign?
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/loophole-poll-results
    [5] Page 13 of the 38 Degrees report gives a proposed amendment to Finance Bill 2015 - to close the mayfair loophole by taxing "carried interest" as ordinary income:
    https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/clos...oophole-report
    [6] Daily Mail: "I probably shouldn't be advocating this": Video of a young George Osborne advising voters how to dodge taxes unearthed':
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...unearthed.html
    Good post rhosoch, we have been active with 38 Degrees for some time.







    ,
    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates.
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  15. #15  
    Socratease is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote

    Nobody will ever deprive the American people of the right to vote except the American people themselves and the only way they could do this is by not voting
    Franklin D. Roosevelt


    Quote

    Men and women in my lifetime have died fighting for the right to vote: people like James Chaney, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner, who were murdered while registering black voters in Mississippi in 1964, and Viola Liuzzo, who was murdered by the Ku Klux Klan in 1965 during the Selma march for voting rights.
    Jeff Greenfield


    Quote
    In a democracy the poor will have more power than the rich, because there are more of them, and the will of the majority is supreme.
    Aristotle


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    Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics will not take an interest in you.
    Pericles




    ,
    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates.
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  16. #16  
    prredhouse is offline Off-Topic Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    I seriously believe that if you dont vote you should get fined, simples. Having your forefathers die so you watch the soaps instead. Get to ****
    its a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll
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  17. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by prredhouse View Post
    I seriously believe that if you dont vote you should get fined, simples. Having your forefathers die so you watch the soaps instead. Get to ****
    This is crazy. Didn't those forefathers fight and die for freedom?
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  18. #18  
    prredhouse is offline Off-Topic Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    This is crazy. Didn't those forefathers fight and die for freedom?
    yes and if you dont believe in the any of the parties/candidates SPOIL your vote, why because its an act of protest instead of being on the internet sending hate mail to local Councillors. Stupid people still need to be counted. No **** them, if you dont vote get fined because its anti social and odious
    its a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll
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  19. #19  
    Liverdinner is online now Posts With His Faace
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    The thing is, if you don't rate a single party and you vote because of this idea that 'thou must vote', people will say 'well you voted for them' if the winning party turns out to be ****.



    Personally I can understand why people don't vote but it makes sense to vote for a party that aligns best with your interests. Even if you do consider them the best of a bad bunch only.
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  20. #20  
    prredhouse is offline Off-Topic Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    The thing is, if you don't rate a single party and you vote because of this idea that 'thou must vote', people will say 'well you voted for them' if the winning party turns out to be ****.



    Personally I can understand why people don't vote but it makes sense to vote for a party that aligns best with your interests. Even if you do consider them the best of a bad bunch only.
    No you are missing the point entirely there, if you dont believe in any of the candidates, spoil your vote..simples

    why because its an act of protest against the candidates presented on the ballot paper, there is no excuse for being a lazy *******
    its a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll
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  21. #21  
    Socratease is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    The thing is, if you don't rate a single party and you vote because of this idea that 'thou must vote', people will say 'well you voted for them' if the winning party turns out to be ****.



    Personally I can understand why people don't vote but it makes sense to vote for a party that aligns best with your interests. Even if you do consider them the best of a bad bunch only.
    The search for the lesser of two or many more evils or the lesser of three or more evils?


    ,



    Vote!
    Last edited by Socratease; 21-2-15 at 01:34.
    The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. Socrates.
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  22. #22  
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    freedom of choice, providing you choose to do what I say
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  23. #23  
    prredhouse is offline Off-Topic Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    freedom of choice, providing you choose to do what I say
    missing the point ultimately again and subjecting the thread to a pointless angle. So its not true that your forefathers lost their lives to earn a vote?

    impossible to decipher dissatisfaction when its clear you dont enjoy living in a meritocracy. Whats your beef dookar? bet you are a bit of imperialist at heart or is it that putin gives you the hots?
    its a long way to the top if you want to rock and roll
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  24. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by prredhouse View Post
    missing the point ultimately again and subjecting the thread to a pointless angle. So its not true that your forefathers lost their lives to earn a vote?

    impossible to decipher dissatisfaction when its clear you dont enjoy living in a meritocracy. Whats your beef dookar? bet you are a bit of imperialist at heart or is it that putin gives you the hots?
    We live in a meritocracy?

    Talk to me about the political parties which govern us and those within them in positions of influence who were not privileged with private education. Go back a few years and do the same.

    We live in a 'wealthocracy'
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    Why support murderous dictating ***** ?
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  26. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by prredhouse View Post
    I seriously believe that if you dont vote you should get fined, simples. Having your forefathers die so you watch the soaps instead. Get to ****
    It is precisely because I don't watch soaps and do follow 'current affairs' closely that I choose not to vote.
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  27. #27  
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    The point of democracy- you have right to vote but whoever you vote for doesn't make much difference because their policies are basically all the same. Not much separate government from opposition in either of the "Western" countries at the present.
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  28. #28  
    Liverdinner is online now Posts With His Faace
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    Quote Originally Posted by prredhouse View Post
    No you are missing the point entirely there, if you dont believe in any of the candidates, spoil your vote..simples

    why because its an act of protest against the candidates presented on the ballot paper, there is no excuse for being a lazy *******
    Achieve's **** all and thus has no more use than not voting.

    But I'd do it anyway so that I feel like I'm doing something.
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  29. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    Achieve's **** all and thus has no more use than not voting.

    But I'd do it anyway so that I feel like I'm doing something.
    think i have said before, but spoiled ballots are still counted as such at the end of the day, and if and when spoiled ballot numbers start climbing massively then people will be asking why.
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  30. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    Achieve's **** all and thus has no more use than not voting.

    But I'd do it anyway so that I feel like I'm doing something.
    What angel said. Anyway, are you absolutely sure that there are no would be MP's running in your area that are worth a vote? In my case, I wouldn't vote for any of the major parties, but Norman Baker (lib dem) is my MP and he's a very good, outspoken MP (who has ******** his own career more than once by going against the party line). Might be that you have a good MP even though the parties are ****. Maybe you even have a viable independent running. It all starts with a few people voting for something new. Then support for new things can build over the years. If people just give up and don't vote, then there isn't any prospect of change in the long run.
    Last edited by carraforcaptain; 24-2-15 at 00:19. Reason: used 'anyway' twice and it bothered me
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