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Thread: Allan Rodrigues De Souza

  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacedonianRed View Post
    Well, I'd say that the Swiss league is much more competitive than the Finnish league ... Probably somewhere at the same level as the Belgian or the Greek league ...
    Fair play i'll take your word for it.
    A step up is a step up regardless of how high that step is, hopefully he can make just as much of an impact in the swiss league as he did in the finnish, if so he'll be in contention to try and break in to our first team (if the work permit comes through) or another loan to a better league.
    Either way he looks a great prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by HakAttack View Post
    Is the Swiss league any more competitive than the Finnish?
    I wont lie and say I watch either nation's domestic leagues, but the swiss league isn't exactly known as a tough or competitive league across the world.
    Their sides usually beat us
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    were does Allan Rodrigues de Souza play, as we got Kent/Ojo/Markovic are wingers
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    were does Allan Rodrigues de Souza play, as we got Kent/Ojo/Markovic are wingers
    Midfield, from what i've read more of a deep-playing/defensive midfielder, however his stats while on loan show he can make a massive difference in the final third so maybe he is more of an all-rounder or advanced?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    were does Allan Rodrigues de Souza play, as we got Kent/Ojo/Markovic are wingers
    Only seen bits of him in Finland but he looks more of a CM than a wide player.

    He'll probably be in competition with the likes of O'Hanlon/Phillips/Alexander-Arnold/Kane for a place in our U21 team assuming he actually spends time with that squad next season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HakAttack View Post
    Is the Swiss league any more competitive than the Finnish?
    I wont lie and say I watch either nation's domestic leagues, but the swiss league isn't exactly known as a tough or competitive league across the world.
    Basel, Young Boys and FC Sion... few decent sides who we know of from european competitions. cant really say the same for the finnish league!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LW94 View Post
    Basel, Young Boys and FC Sion... few decent sides who we know of from european competitions. cant really say the same for the finnish league!
    True, I completely forgot that Sion were a swiss team, the only team I can think of in Finland off the top of my head is HJK.
    Either way as long as his next move is a step up from his last and he can make that step, im happy
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    (with apologies to my favourite Funniest Animals clip). What do we think the future holds for Allan? If his work permit issue is resolved do we think Klopp will have him at Melwood as opposed to another loan? Klopp has apparently been impressed with the little he has seen of him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountbeautygeorge View Post
    (with apologies to my favourite Funniest Animals clip). What do we think the future holds for Allan? If his work permit issue is resolved do we think Klopp will have him at Melwood as opposed to another loan? Klopp has apparently been impressed with the little he has seen of him.
    Probably be playing for u21's might make bench for cup games
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    LiverpoolFF ‏@LiverpoolFF 51s51 seconds ago

    Allan Rodrigues must be loaned out again this summer. Club still trying to get him that work permit.
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  11. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SriHanuman View Post
    LiverpoolFF ‏@LiverpoolFF 51s51 seconds ago

    Allan Rodrigues must be loaned out again this summer. Club still trying to get him that work permit.
    Shame as Klopp really rates him.
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    ... This sucks! I can imagine and understand the frustration he feels. He has to delay everything, his career and to become integrated in the squad. He has waited long enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SriHanuman View Post
    LiverpoolFF ‏@LiverpoolFF 51s51 seconds ago

    Allan Rodrigues must be loaned out again this summer. Club still trying to get him that work permit.
    Why does he have a problem that Matip, Gruic etc. apparently don't have?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountbeautygeorge View Post
    Why does he have a problem that Matip, Gruic etc. apparently don't have?
    Matip is German so I'm not sure why you think he'd have to apply for a work permit. Whilst Serbian players are required to have a work permit (I think) and that requires there are certain levels of international experience you must have you can mitigate this wit their age.

    For example Grujic is 20. He's played for Serbia at every level. He's got 3 caps and that points to him being an exceptional talent and special case.

    Allan Rodrigues de Souza isn't German so he's not in same boat as Matip. He's also not a full international so he can't claim the same exemptions Grujic can.
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    Thanks Coach. As per an earlier post from me I so hope Klopp will bring out the skills which the lad seemingly has.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountbeautygeorge View Post
    Thanks Coach. As per an earlier post from me I so hope Klopp will bring out the skills which the lad seemingly has.
    I have hope for the young players under klopp. High energy, technical game is a style kids can flourish in.
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    We really should loan him to a higher level league to accrue the points required to obtain a WP. I thought our backroom boys would've been certain that a full season in the Finnish and Belgium leagues would be sufficient. The last year has been a great waste for young Allan.
    “I’ve never seen a bag of money score a goal.” – Johan Cruyff
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    If there are fixed rules and conditions, why does it say "Club still trying to get him that work permit." ?
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    Hope Allan's career doesn't pan out like Mihaylov and Leto's, looks a decent young player so fingers crossed we get that work permit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LChristina View Post
    If there are fixed rules and conditions, why does it say "Club still trying to get him that work permit." ?
    There are multiples pathways to obtain a WP. The first stage is based on full internationals, where qualifications are primarily determined by participation in national squads.

    Official FIFA Ranking Required % of international matches over previous 24 months
    FIFA 1-10 30% and above
    FIFA 11-20 45% and above
    FIFA 21-30 60% and above
    FIFA 31-50 75% and above

    If a player is a recent international or a youth player, a club can make an appeal based on the following conditions. Four points is all that's required. However, Allan's small transfer fee (and presumably small wages) is complicating matters.


    The value of the transfer fee being paid for the player is in the top 25% of all transfers to Premier League clubs in the previous 2 windows 3 points
    The value of the transfer fee being paid for the player is between the 50th and 75th % of all transfers to Premier League clubs in the previous 2 windows 2 points
    The wages being paid to the player by the applicant club is in the top 25% of the top 30 earners at the club 3 points
    The wages being paid to the player by the applicant club are between the 50th and 75th % of all the top 30 earners at the club 2 points
    The player’s current club is in a Top League* and the player has played in 30% or more of the available domestic league minutes 1 point
    The player’s current club has played in the group stages or onwards of the Champions League, Europa League or the Copa Libertadores within the last 12 months and the player has played in 30% or more of the available domestic league minutes 1 point

    * Top six European leagues
    “I’ve never seen a bag of money score a goal.” – Johan Cruyff
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedMosby View Post
    There are multiples pathways to obtain a WP. The first stage is based on full internationals, where qualifications are primarily determined by participation in national squads.

    Official FIFA Ranking Required % of international matches over previous 24 months
    FIFA 1-10 30% and above
    FIFA 11-20 45% and above
    FIFA 21-30 60% and above
    FIFA 31-50 75% and above

    If a player is a recent international or a youth player, a club can make an appeal based on the following conditions. Four points is all that's required. However, Allan's small transfer fee (and presumably small wages) is complicating matters.


    The value of the transfer fee being paid for the player is in the top 25% of all transfers to Premier League clubs in the previous 2 windows 3 points
    The value of the transfer fee being paid for the player is between the 50th and 75th % of all transfers to Premier League clubs in the previous 2 windows 2 points
    The wages being paid to the player by the applicant club is in the top 25% of the top 30 earners at the club 3 points
    The wages being paid to the player by the applicant club are between the 50th and 75th % of all the top 30 earners at the club 2 points
    The player’s current club is in a Top League* and the player has played in 30% or more of the available domestic league minutes 1 point
    The player’s current club has played in the group stages or onwards of the Champions League, Europa League or the Copa Libertadores within the last 12 months and the player has played in 30% or more of the available domestic league minutes 1 point

    * Top six European leagues
    I understand those are the conditions when we signed him, and he fell short - but I'm struggling to see how we go about getting him one now.

    If he still has to get 4 points from the above table - how is that going to happen?

    We can't get the transfer points, perhaps he might get 2 points for his wages (if we were willing to give him a rise to get over the line), but it's surely at least another 12 months to get the playing points, and even then only if we get him a good loan and he plays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    I understand those are the conditions when we signed him, and he fell short - but I'm struggling to see how we go about getting him one now.

    If he still has to get 4 points from the above table - how is that going to happen?

    We can't get the transfer points, perhaps he might get 2 points for his wages (if we were willing to give him a rise to get over the line), but it's surely at least another 12 months to get the playing points, and even then only if we get him a good loan and he plays.
    You're right, Stu. Allan will probably have to spend another year on loan at a higher level league to gain the required points.

    However, there is also another pathway. Clubs can argue their case directly to the appeal board, similar to how Rafa did for Mark Gonzalez (remember him?) in 2005 or 2006.
    “I’ve never seen a bag of money score a goal.” – Johan Cruyff
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  23. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedMosby View Post
    You're right, Stu. Allan will probably have to spend another year on loan at a higher level league to gain the required points.

    However, there is also another pathway. Clubs can argue their case directly to the appeal board, similar to how Rafa did for Mark Gonzalez (remember him?) in 2005 or 2006.
    Are you sure we're still working on the same points system? I know that's maybe a stupid question, but it just seems almost impossible for him to meet the criteria now so I wonder if we have a plan.

    He'd have to get a loan to a top 6 club in a top 6 league and play at least 30% to get 2 points - which, if he could manage that, would probably then justify us giving him a new contract big enough to be worth another 2 points. But what are the chances of that?

    The appeal process would look to be the only option.

    Do you know how Kenedy qualified for Chelsea?
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  24. #54  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Are you sure we're still working on the same points system? I know that's maybe a stupid question, but it just seems almost impossible for him to meet the criteria now so I wonder if we have a plan.

    He'd have to get a loan to a top 6 club in a top 6 league and play at least 30% to get 2 points - which, if he could manage that, would probably then justify us giving him a new contract big enough to be worth another 2 points. But what are the chances of that?

    The appeal process would look to be the only option.

    Do you know how Kenedy qualified for Chelsea?
    Thinking about it - even if we somehow managed to get him a temporary visa to play for us next season, that wouldn't be playing at a high enough level to qualify him.

    So we need to loan him to a 'better' club than ourselves.
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  25. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Are you sure we're still working on the same points system? I know that's maybe a stupid question, but it just seems almost impossible for him to meet the criteria now so I wonder if we have a plan.

    He'd have to get a loan to a top 6 club in a top 6 league and play at least 30% to get 2 points - which, if he could manage that, would probably then justify us giving him a new contract big enough to be worth another 2 points. But what are the chances of that?

    The appeal process would look to be the only option.

    Do you know how Kenedy qualified for Chelsea?
    I'm not sure how it works now but I think if you'd played consistently at international level at youth a case can be made.
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  26. #56  
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    whatever is needed to get his visa to stay at melwood, make it happen LFC. The Italian's and Spanish seem to have little problems bringing in talented youth outside of Europe, so whatever their doing we should should follow suit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Are you sure we're still working on the same points system? I know that's maybe a stupid question, but it just seems almost impossible for him to meet the criteria now so I wonder if we have a plan.

    He'd have to get a loan to a top 6 club in a top 6 league and play at least 30% to get 2 points - which, if he could manage that, would probably then justify us giving him a new contract big enough to be worth another 2 points. But what are the chances of that?

    The appeal process would look to be the only option.

    Do you know how Kenedy qualified for Chelsea?
    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Thinking about it - even if we somehow managed to get him a temporary visa to play for us next season, that wouldn't be playing at a high enough level to qualify him.

    So we need to loan him to a 'better' club than ourselves.
    You brought up two great points (bolded) which served as the starting point of my research. Apparently, if a player fails to meet the primary stage criteria, a club may submit a secondary stage request to the Exception Panel - the Appeal Board is the last option. A player must obtain five points to pass the secondary stage, but the points from the primary stage is included in the total.

    (one point for each criteria met)

    • The value of the Transfer Fee being paid for the player is within 20% of the 75th and 50th percentile of Qualifying Transfers

    • The Wages being paid to the player by the applicant club are within 20% of the 75th and 50th percentile of Qualifying Wages

    • The player’s current league club is in a Secondary League and the player has played in at least 30% of the available domestic league minutes

    • The player’s current club has played in the final qualification rounds of a Continental Competition within the last 12 months and the player has played in at least 30% of the available domestic league minutes

    • The applicant club is able to show* that the player has participated in the Secondary Percentage** of senior Competitive International Matches*** played by that player’s National Association during the Reference Period (OR The player’s National Association was a semi-finalist in the Asian Cup or African Cup of Nations in the immediately preceding 12 months of the date of the application for a GBE. If the National Association is ranked outside the top 60 in the FIFA Aggregated World Rankings at the time of the application, the club must be able to show* that the player participated in 75% or more** of the Competitive International Matches*** played by the National Association during the Reference Period)
    “I’ve never seen a bag of money score a goal.” – Johan Cruyff
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  28. #58  
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    is that FIFA regulation Ted or UEFA? or are they all the same for every country under FIFA?
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    Some loopholes for the Exception Panel.

    SUBJECTIVE CRITERIA

    The Exceptions Panel may then take into account any subjective criteria that it deems appropriate in its absolute discretion when deciding whether to award a Governing Body Endorsement at the secondary review stage.

    Subjective criteria that the Exceptions Panel may take into account include but are not limited to:

    • Players for whom no transfer fee is payable under the primary review criteria may be ascribed a ‘virtual’ transfer value under the secondary review criteria on such basis that the Exceptions Panel considers appropriate and, if so, the appropriate number of points will then be awarded.

    • In the event that the player satisfies some of the automatic criteria for a Governing Body Endorsement (as set out under 2.1 (Criteria under which a Governing Body Endorsement will automatically be granted)) or the primary review criteria, the degree to which the player exceeds these criteria will be considered.

    • The reasons why the automatic criteria (as set out under paragraph 2.1 (Criteria under which a Governing Body Endorsement will automatically be granted) above), primary review criteria or objective secondary review criteria were not met will be considered.



    Finally, the third stage review to the Appeal Board.

    THIRD STAGE REVIEW

    If a player does not met the above primary review or secondary review criteria, the Exceptions Panel will consider any highly extenuating circumstances that are presented (in writing only) on behalf of that player and the applicant club. This will include consideration of extraordinary events or circumstances beyond the player’s or the National Association’s control.
    “I’ve never seen a bag of money score a goal.” – Johan Cruyff
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klopployal View Post
    is that FIFA regulation Ted or UEFA? or are they all the same for every country under FIFA?
    Neither. It's the Home Office Points Based System for the 2015/16 season.
    Edit: And only applicable for English clubs.
    “I’ve never seen a bag of money score a goal.” – Johan Cruyff
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