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Thread: The Cricket Thread

  1. #2671  
    TheDarknessIsCalling is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordJamieOfCarragher View Post
    And it's all over
    Never nice to lose having led at half time, but I guess batting last and in India you can take it better than most times elsewhere

    That Pujara innings perhaps the decisive factor, the aussies lacked anyone sticking around with only one batsman lasting more than 50 balls whereas he batted for 221 and supported well by Rahane with 52 off 134 balls.

    Best bowling figures to end on a losing side for Lyon...........? *scoots off to see if cricinfo does that, can't remember*
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  2. #2672  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarknessIsCalling View Post

    Best bowling figures to end on a losing side for Lyon...........? *scoots off to see if cricinfo does that, can't remember*
    Not sure about that but it's the 2nd worse 2nd Innings figures after taking 8 in the 1st.
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  3. #2673  
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    Laker (ENG) 10/53 vs Australia - won by an inns and 170 runs
    Kumble (IND) 10/74 vs Pakistan - won by 212 runs

    Lohmann (ENG) 9/28 vs South Africa - won by an inns and 197 runs
    Laker (ENG) 9/37 vs Australia - won by an inns and 170 runs
    Muralitharan (SRL) 9/51 vs Zimbabwe - won by an inns and 94 runs
    Hadlee 9/52 vs Australia - won by an inns and 41 runs
    A Qadir (PAK) 9/56 vs England - won by an inns and 87 runs
    Malcolm (ENG) 9/57 vs South Africa - won by 8 wickets
    Muralitharan (SRL) 9/65 vs England - won by 10 wickets
    J Patel (IND) 9/69 vs Australia - won by 119 runs
    K Dev (IND) 9/83 vs West Indies - lost by 138 runs
    S Nawaz (PAK) 9/86 vs Australia - won by 71 runs
    Noriega (WIN) 9/95 vs India - lost by 7 wickets
    S Gupte (IND) 9/102 vs West Indies - lost by 203 runs

    Barnes (ENG) 9/103 vs South Africa - won by an inns and 12 runs
    Tayfield (SAF) 9/113 vs England - won by 17 runs
    Malley (AUS) 9/121 vs England - won by 8 wickets
    Herath (SRL) 9/127 vs Pakistan - won by 105 runs

    Lohmann (ENG) 8/7 vs South Africa - won by 288 runs
    Briggs (ENG) 8/11 vs South Africa - won by an inns and 202 runs
    Broad (ENG) 8/15 vs Australia - won by an inns and 78 runs
    McGrath (AUS) 8/24 vs Pakistan - won by 491 runs
    Barnes (ENG) 8/29 vs South Africa - won by 10 wickets
    Croft (WIN) 8/29 vs Pakistan - won by 6 wickets
    Laver (AUS) 8/31 vs England - match drawn
    Trueman (ENG) 8/31 vs India - won by an inns and 207 runs
    Botham (ENG) 8/34 vs Pakistan - won by an inns and 120 runs
    Gibbs (WIN) 8/37 vs India - won by an inns and 30 runs
    McGrath (AUS) 8/38 vs England - match drawn
    T Islam (BAN) 8/39 vs Zimbabwe - won by 3 wickets
    Trott (AUS) 8/43 vs England - won by 382 runs
    Willis (ENG) 8/43 vs Australia - won by 18 runs
    Verity (ENG) 8/43 vs Australia - won by an inns and 38 runs
    Ambrose (WIN) 8/45 vs England - won by 164 runs
    Muralitharan (SRL) 8/46 vs West Indies - won by 240 runs
    Bishoo (WIN) 8/49 vs Pakistan - lost by 56 runs
    Lyon (AUS) 8/50 vs India - lost by 75 runs


    So most wickets taken by a bowler in the innings to be on the losing side is 9/83 by Kapil Dev vs West Indies. Two matches where one bowler took 8/50 or better in an innings ended in draws, the aussie loss against India was the 5th such in the same conditions.
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  4. #2674  
    LordJamieOfCarragher is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    West Indies bowling 1st in the 3rd ODI v England
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    Hales (110) and Root (101) hit centuries to take England to 328 all out from their 50 overs. It's great to see Hales opening with Roy again, I really like the dynamic of that partnership.

    Apparently the average first innings score in this wicket is 276, so we've done okay (although the Windies bowling attack isn't exactly great).

    The West Indies are already 13-3 after 3.4 overs. Finn has taken one wicket and Woakes has two.

    This could be over pretty soon.
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    In this three match series so far, Plunkett has bowled 21.1 overs and taken 10 wickets for 72 runs.

    Not bad.
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  7. #2677  
    TheDarknessIsCalling is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewdleyfan View Post
    In this three match series so far, Plunkett has bowled 21.1 overs and taken 10 wickets for 72 runs.

    Not bad.
    And still Morgan turned to his "bowl the 50 overs" routine, should have polished the windies off a lot sooner. Could have proven useful practice too, for what to do if you get that situation in a World Cup match.

    I mean 45/6 at the end of the 17th over, not a lot of batting in the windies side and he gives Ali another 4 overs (4-0-22-0) He did bring on Rashid who polished the innings off, and granted had he bowled out the seamers he would have had to have turned (excuse the pun) to spin, but it's laughable that he could have bowled out his two main wicket takers who ended two overs apiece short of their allocation.

    I suppose it was better than his usual efforts, after all Ali or Rashid would have had to bowl 3.4 more overs, but to let the opposition near reach the 40th over having been 6 down inside 17 overs and 8 down before the 30th, you would not want to be bowling the 40th



    Had to laugh at a couple of comments on that cricket forum I go on, one group is banging on about Woakes who they think could bat higher - he's a handy lower order hitter, no more, no less, and others preaching about the value of economy which is a fantastic theory, this "if all bowlers had an ER of 5.2 then England would win most matches" which completely ignores the massive part wickets play in winning ODIs.

    I mean on face value where DL hasn't played any part, here are some key England stats from 2004 to today :

    9-10 wickets : P111 W88 L20 (Tie 2, NR 0) = Won 79.28%
    6-8 wickets : P70 W20 L48 (Tie 2, NR 0) = Won 28.57%
    0-5 wickets : P57 W1 L56 (Tie 0, NR 0) = Won 1.75%

    I've only split 8 wickets and less as someone might suggest those figures are diluted by 0-5 wickets say, but the next best winning percentage by wickets after 9 (64.00%) is 7 wickets (39.39%) That includes all sides so wins over 3 minnows (Canada, Holland, Ireland), and 4 over Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. The remaining 13 of the 20 wins are predominantly batting 2nd, those batting 1st were :

    06/07 : ENG 270/7 vs NZL 256/8
    06/07 : ENG 279/6 vs CAN 228/7
    10/11 : ENG 299/8 vs AUS 278/7

    Would England have won without taking wickets? Possibly against Canada, but unlikely against the kiwis and aussies. And the one win that might appear to defy all regards the need for wickets:

    06/07 : WIN 272/4 vs ENG 276/7

    Exceptions don't maketh the rule though and since of England's 299 ODIs in that period, 236 of the 274 that ended in a result were won by the side losing the fewest wickets, or taking the most if you prefer with 26 ending "even". All roads point to wickets being important, even in theory a side would not bat on at a slow enough rate to lose with wickets in hand, so in the battle of theories economy doesn't win out either!
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  8. #2678  
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    Oh and regarding the number of bowlers, this is based on 5 proper bowlers vs 4 proper bowlers and any number of bits n pieces bowlers making up the overs eg Ali

    England full ODIs (2004- ) vs Test 1-8

    Bat 1st
    5 bowlers : P54 W22 L32 (Tie 0, NR 0) = Won 40.74%
    4 bowlers : P46 W14 L20 (Tie 2, NR 0) = Won 30.43%

    Bat 2nd
    5 bowlers : P53 W25 L27 (Tie 1, NR 0) = Won 47.17%
    4 bowlers : P52 W24 L26 (Tie 2, NR 0) = Won 46.15%

    Interesting to note England do better batting 2nd and there's less difference in that scenario as to whether the 5th bowler is a proper bowler or not. But there is a marked difference when batting 1st, granted a slight difference in number of games but not nearly enough to make it an invalid comparison. And by "full ODI" I mean any game not affected by DL or anything else might reduce the number of overs batted/bowled, and includes all Test nations bar Zimbabwe and Bangladesh.

    And whilst on a stat-a-thon may as well, looking at England's last 100 ODIs, results by opponent:

    vs AUS : P20 W5 L13 (Tie 0, NR 2) = Won 25.00%
    vs SRL : P19 W7 L10 (Tie 1, NR 1) = Won 36.84%
    vs IND : P16 W6 L9 (Tie 0, NR 1) = Won 37.50%

    vs SAF : P8 W4 L4 (Tie 0, NR 0) = Won 50.00%
    vs NZL : P13 W7 L6 (Tie 0, NR 0) = Won 53.85%
    vs PAK : P9 W7 L2 (Tie 0, NR 0) = Won 77.78%
    vs WIN : P6 W5 L1 (Tie 0, NR 0) = Won 83.33%

    Rest : P9 W6 L2 (Tie 0, NR 1) = Won 66.67%

    Rest comprises 4 vs BAN, 2 each vs IRE and SCO, and 1 vs AFG. Overall England have won 47 of the 100 ODIs which isn't bad, but of the top sides England have only won more than Pakistan (7-2), West Indies (5-1) and narrowly New Zealand (7-6) which means 5 of the top 8 Test sides have a better recent head to head. It's better than winning only 1 in 3 or 4 in 10, but when it comes to the crunch how confident would England be of beating Australia, Sri Lanka, India or even South Africa or New Zealand.....?

    It isn't massively improved on the near 200 ODIs before that though, won 39.77% against Test sides 1-8, improved to 45.56% in the middle 100 of the last 299 ODIs but down to 45.05% 'current'. Nearly half granted, but includes West Indies and they make up 3%, Pakistan are a bit flaky too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarknessIsCalling View Post
    And still Morgan turned to his "bowl the 50 overs" routine, should have polished the windies off a lot sooner. Could have proven useful practice too, for what to do if you get that situation in a World Cup match.

    I mean 45/6 at the end of the 17th over, not a lot of batting in the windies side and he gives Ali another 4 overs (4-0-22-0) He did bring on Rashid who polished the innings off, and granted had he bowled out the seamers he would have had to have turned (excuse the pun) to spin, but it's laughable that he could have bowled out his two main wicket takers who ended two overs apiece short of their allocation.

    I suppose it was better than his usual efforts, after all Ali or Rashid would have had to bowl 3.4 more overs, but to let the opposition near reach the 40th over having been 6 down inside 17 overs and 8 down before the 30th, you would not want to be bowling the 40th



    Had to laugh at a couple of comments on that cricket forum I go on, one group is banging on about Woakes who they think could bat higher - he's a handy lower order hitter, no more, no less, and others preaching about the value of economy which is a fantastic theory, this "if all bowlers had an ER of 5.2 then England would win most matches" which completely ignores the massive part wickets play in winning ODIs.

    I mean on face value where DL hasn't played any part, here are some key England stats from 2004 to today :

    9-10 wickets : P111 W88 L20 (Tie 2, NR 0) = Won 79.28%
    6-8 wickets : P70 W20 L48 (Tie 2, NR 0) = Won 28.57%
    0-5 wickets : P57 W1 L56 (Tie 0, NR 0) = Won 1.75%

    I've only split 8 wickets and less as someone might suggest those figures are diluted by 0-5 wickets say, but the next best winning percentage by wickets after 9 (64.00%) is 7 wickets (39.39%) That includes all sides so wins over 3 minnows (Canada, Holland, Ireland), and 4 over Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. The remaining 13 of the 20 wins are predominantly batting 2nd, those batting 1st were :

    06/07 : ENG 270/7 vs NZL 256/8
    06/07 : ENG 279/6 vs CAN 228/7
    10/11 : ENG 299/8 vs AUS 278/7

    Would England have won without taking wickets? Possibly against Canada, but unlikely against the kiwis and aussies. And the one win that might appear to defy all regards the need for wickets:

    06/07 : WIN 272/4 vs ENG 276/7

    Exceptions don't maketh the rule though and since of England's 299 ODIs in that period, 236 of the 274 that ended in a result were won by the side losing the fewest wickets, or taking the most if you prefer with 26 ending "even". All roads point to wickets being important, even in theory a side would not bat on at a slow enough rate to lose with wickets in hand, so in the battle of theories economy doesn't win out either!
    Man, I think you can be overly analytical and negative at times. We won the series 3-0 and there were far more positives than negatives.

    Not being rude, but you're a bit of a buzzkill in this thread bud.
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  10. #2680  
    Liverpoolforme is online now First team regular
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    Was walking through the park on the way home just now, and could not help but snigger to myself watching the guy practising his battiing...his girlfriend was chucking balls to him to hit when suddenly she lobbed one accidentally (I think aha) at his head...he managed to dodge it, but pretty much landed in the bin he seemed to be using as a wicket...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewdleyfan View Post
    Man, I think you can be overly analytical and negative at times. We won the series 3-0 and there were far more positives than negatives.
    Yeah, so if we (Liverpool) had stuffed a non-league side 10-0 you'd be reading positives.....?!?!? There were as many positives as you can take against a side clearly out of its depth, you need context otherwise the 'positives' taken from such a set of games/series suddenly become exposed for their (lack of) worth when you end up being tonked in the real event against decent opposition

    Quote Originally Posted by Bewdleyfan View Post
    Not being rude, but you're a bit of a buzzkill in this thread bud.
    How can you not be rude with that kind of comment........?!?!?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolforme View Post
    Was walking through the park on the way home just now, and could not help but snigger to myself watching the guy practising his battiing...his girlfriend was chucking balls to him to hit when suddenly she lobbed one accidentally (I think aha) at his head...he managed to dodge it, but pretty much landed in the bin he seemed to be using as a wicket...
    Did you think of Chris Read vs New Zealand.........?

    Actually only came in to this thread to mention Bangladesh are playing their 100th Test, Sri Lanka recovering somewhat from 238/7 overnight to add 100 runs and Bangladesh are 214/5. Looked quite promising for the deshis at close of play, not so much at the moment although they still have five wickets in hand
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    Talk about the tail wagging, and things changing quickly, in the 2nd Test between SA and NZ .. New Zealand batted first and made 268 all out. NZ then have SA on the ropes in their innings at 94/6 and in comes Quentin de Kock to partner Bavuma .. together they put on a 7th wicket stand of 160 to get SA back into contention .. SA then lose both Bavuma and de Kock to be on 290/8 (a lead of 22 which, on this track, gives SA something small to work with after their poor start). Maharaj then out quickly and one would think it's all over .. but no .. an additional 10th wicket partnership of 47* from Philander (who we know can bat) and Morkel (who we know can't .. well, so we thought) puts SA on 349/9 at stumps on Day 2 .. and a significant lead of 81 which must now make them favourites to win this Test.

    It's a funny old game, is cricket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    Talk about the tail wagging, and things changing quickly, in the 2nd Test between SA and NZ .. New Zealand batted first and made 268 all out. NZ then have SA on the ropes in their innings at 94/6 and in comes Quentin de Kock to partner Bavuma .. together they put on a 7th wicket stand of 160 to get SA back into contention .. SA then lose both Bavuma and de Kock to be on 290/8 (a lead of 22 which, on this track, gives SA something small to work with after their poor start). Maharaj then out quickly and one would think it's all over .. but no .. an additional 10th wicket partnership of 47* from Philander (who we know can bat) and Morkel (who we know can't .. well, so we thought) puts SA on 349/9 at stumps on Day 2 .. and a significant lead of 81 which must now make them favourites to win this Test.

    It's a funny old game, is cricket.

    You silly goose!
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  15. #2685  
    LordJamieOfCarragher is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    North v South for England hopefuls over in Dubai today.

    North all out for 202 in 43.3 overs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    You silly goose!
    If I say it, it will happen .. I firmly believe this to be true. Leave me to my delusions
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    If I say it, it will happen .. I firmly believe this to be true. Leave me to my delusions
    Okay. If it keeps you happy until the inevitable is staring you in the face!

    What about that first test, Gren? So annoying, that rain. Not often we see the near-equal opportunity on the last day for a draw, or a win for either side. Could've been a mighty day, that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    Okay. If it keeps you happy until the inevitable is staring you in the face!

    What about that first test, Gren? So annoying, that rain. Not often we see the near-equal opportunity on the last day for a draw, or a win for either side. Could've been a mighty day, that.
    Yep, was looking interesting .. definitely the most frustrating thing about cricket is the weather, Dave .. cannot count the times it has put paid to an exciting contest, in all 3 formats of the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    You silly goose!
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    Must admit I thought Bangladesh would cruise to a routine loss, but they've got Sri Lanka deep in trouble.

    Sri Lanka 1st inns - recovered somewhat from 238/7 overnight to 338 all out
    Bangladesh 1st inns - recovered well from 198/5 to add over 250 runs with Shakib scoring a hundred with support from Mushfiqir (52) and Hossain (75)
    Sri Lanka 2nd inns - fell apart from 143/1 to 190/6 with Karunaratne 111no as they are 200/6 leading by a mere 71 runs

    Karunaratne needs a bit of support to post a remotely defendable total surely, otherwise Bangladesh will notch up another notable win although Sri Lanka are nothing like the force they were so England's scalp will remain their biggest. Shows how quickly a game can turn, too easy for sides to think they've done the hard work and it turn back and bite them on the Rs
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
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    Karunaratne 7th man out for 126, 7th and 8th wickets added 27 and 21 respectively but the tail is wagging a bit more than the deshis would have wanted, last 3 partnerships including a 9th wicket unbeaten 28 adding 76 between them when the lead is less than double that.

    Are Sri Lanka digging themselves out of a hole, or are Bangladesh slipping into one.......? They won't surely want to chase much more than 150
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    Liverpoolforme is online now First team regular
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    Bangladesh in a very good position for the last day! Sri Lanka need to squeak over that 200 mark for me, although anything over 150 will surely put the pressure on a Bangladesh side not used to winning.

    Have to say I really hope they pull it off as I have been very impressed with their efforts in the last few years. And it can only be good for cricket to have another test nantion able to win matches and be competitive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpoolforme View Post
    Bangladesh in a very good position for the last day! Sri Lanka need to squeak over that 200 mark for me, although anything over 150 will surely put the pressure on a Bangladesh side not used to winning.

    Have to say I really hope they pull it off as I have been very impressed with their efforts in the last few years. And it can only be good for cricket to have another test nantion able to win matches and be competitive.
    As I suggested the deshis wouldn't want to chase much over 150 and they're chasing 190, looking decently placed, but wobbling a bit at 22/2 and having put on 109 for the 3rd wicket, now 164/5 having lost 3/31. I'd say not quite "in the balance", but Sri Lanka have a sniff again. They'll be disappointed their pair of Perera and Lakmal did so well then got out in very quick succession or they'd maybe have another 20+ runs on the board.


    aussies are labouring to bowl India out, 199 runs put on by Pujara and Saha for the 7th wicket more or less taking India from 100 behind to 100 in front. Looking like it might be a draw, India may decide to bat this innings out and try to bowl the aussies out, there is a case to be made for declaring and getting at the aussie batsmen soonest possible. Jadeja is scoring at a run a ball, but it's highly unlikely the aussies will get far enough in front to force a win with so little time left so they'll be happy at any time taken out by India batting on..........



    And last up the wannabes for the 11th Test nation spot, Ireland had Afghanistan 44/4 after 10.2 overs, but three fifties in the middle order saw the Afghans post 264/8 off 50 overs. Stirling and O'Brien are steadying the innings with the score having been 24/2 in reply when they came together, now 86/2 in the 20th over so around 6 an over required.

    Question is how much damage did the early wickets do in taking out Joyce and Porterfield, the latter scored 119 in the previous match with Stirling making 68, and the game before Stirling made 49 with Wilson top scoring on 59 so maybe Stirling holds the key cause no one else left to bat has scored more than 39 runs in the series prior to this game.
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    Well the deshis have dunnit, won their 100th Test match if not wholly convincingly (by 4 wkts chasing 190 to win) Sri Lanka join England in the hall of shame, the only two worthwhile Test nations to lose to Bangladesh, well their's perhaps the more embarrassing being a home defeat.



    Ireland battling away, need 48 runs with 44 balls remaining and six wickets in hand, Balbirnie's 54no off 51 balls on top of a Stirling effort of 99 off 114 balls doing their chances no harm at all and they're surely favourites now we're inside the last 10.
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    India to win tomorrow then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordJamieOfCarragher View Post
    India to win tomorrow then?
    Wasn't looking good for the aussies this morning, 4 down pretty early, but seems they hung on. Nightw.atchman clearly made all the difference (), but seriously have to question if the Indians didn't delay their declaration a little too long (isn't hindsight, said the aussies would be happy for any time the Indians take out)

    Talking of the NW word, reminds me of the Tight Fit song "the Lyon bats tonight"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewdleyfan View Post
    Nothing particularly "news" in it, doom mongers always write off Test cricket but maybe instead of sitting going "oh no, the sky is falling down" they could do something to make it more interesting.

    It's stuck in C19, bilateral series that are too often tedious and no end outcome other than meaningless rankings, plus an obligation (not that the aussies bother with it so much) to play sides who aren't up to it. Tiers would sort out some of it, a championship definitely would so hopefully recent proposed changes will just prove Anderson is dredging up old news and probably because he himself has only Tests as his big payday.
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    aussie started the deciding Test against India well reaching 144/1 before losing 4 wickets for 34 runs. Smith steered them to safer shores, but 283/8 with Wade 50no and only the tail to support him it may be somewhat shy of par or a competitive score.

    Ireland without Kevin O'Brien suffered a defeat in the deciding ODI and in the series. A number of the matches were close, Afghanistan winning the opening two ODIs by 30 and 34 runs respectively, Ireland then won by 6 and 3 wickets to level the series before losing the decider by 7 wickets so one fair sized margin each (6 and 7 wickets) and the rest pretty close.

    Stirling was top scorer (341 runs) on either side, but Afghanistan batsmen scored 2 hundreds to Ireland's 1. Perhaps crucial to the outcome was the top wicket takers, I know a lot subscribe to ER theory, but Khan with 16 wickets and Zadran with 11 took more wickets than the closest Irishman (O'Brien) with 7 wickets albeit he played only 2 ODIs. Ireland took only 34 wickets in the series to Afghanistan's 41, and only bowled Afghanistan out twice - once for 338. As is most often the case the side taking the most wickets won, 4 out of 5 with both sides bowled out in the other so not once did the side taking the fewest wickets win..... (ER, schmee R )
    People will believe what they want to believe
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