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Thread: I don't feel we're getting the best out of Coutinho and it's concerning.

  1. #31  
    DreamingOfKlopp is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonylet View Post
    He spent the whole Burnley game being a CM anyway. Even if his actual position is wide left, he was dropping into midfield all game and getting on the ball.

    That was one of our biggest problems, because Sturridge was doing the same. So we had nobody to beat players one on one out wide.
    Problem is the time it took for him to come deep then turn burnley were already set up. Thats why i like him starting in the midfield, as soon as there is a turn over he can get on the ball and do things before the opposition can react.

    Also if he is deep it is one less attacker up forward for him to utilise.
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  2. #32  
    TheMelwoodMole is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonylet View Post
    He's as inconsistent as the team.
    Agree probably the only negative thing I can say about him.
    ?
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  3. #33  
    Red-And-Proud is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by theamerican00 View Post
    Coutinho has always looked better and more dangerous playing a little bit deeper and through the middle. Funny that we screaming out for a new CM who can playmake. A bit mad really.
    Yes I've been banging that drum all pre season, drop him a little deeper and it will give him more influence on the game (hopefully) seriously can't see how that will effect his game, where he currently play (occaional wonder goal, magic pass etc)
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  4. #34  
    Acumen is online now First team regular
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    His game has changed there is no doubt about that. When he was more of a playmaker we wanted him to score more goals, now that he is scoring more we want him to be a playmaker again. I think Phil is now a better scorer than he is a creative player. He is over hitting passes far too often and has lost that deft touch for the final ball. His interplay can still be great, but he's become more of an individual player as more talent has left the team and he's felt the need to step up and fill their shoes.
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  5. #35  
    spider-neil is online now Academy prospect
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    Coutinho was kicking simple passes into touch. How the **** does someone as technically gifted as Coutinho now find someone from 5 yards. It was the same with Firmino, miss passes left, right and centre.
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  6. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acumen View Post
    His game has changed there is no doubt about that. When he was more of a playmaker we wanted him to score more goals, now that he is scoring more we want him to be a playmaker again. I think Phil is now a better scorer than he is a creative player. He is over hitting passes far too often and has lost that deft touch for the final ball. His interplay can still be great, but he's become more of an individual player as more talent has left the team and he's felt the need to step up and fill their shoes.
    I think it comes down to the roles he is being asked to play, we would be better served using him to play make and playing him central. Especially if we are going with a midfield 3. For me we should be setying our front 6 up like this.


    Firmino--Origi----Mane
    Wjnaldum--Coutinho
    Can

    Ive mentioned it many times thats the bestbrole for Coutinho. Wijnaldum being the more advanced of the 3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    All of 8 days ago it was a Coutinho love in, this is his season, goals galore, what a player

    One game later this.

    He plays for Liverpool, so that reaction is to be expected
    Next year will be my year
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamingOfKlopp View Post
    Because he was getting the ball far to slow. By the time he got it burnley were set so Coutinho had no options. When he is shooting too much it is normally a sign that the tactics arnt working.
    He could have tried going past people or simply use his left foot and put a cross into Sturridge at the back post. There was no variety to his play, he was just opting to either shoot or lay it off short to Milner.

    Of course, it's not all Coutinho's fault, but you could see the team were working to give him the ball and he was just wasting it. To be fair, it was one of the worst performances I've seen from him in a Liverpool shirt. But he'll learn from this and bounce back bigger and better.
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  9. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by aGothAndaJock View Post
    He could have tried going past people or simply use his left foot and put a cross into Sturridge at the back post. There was no variety to his play, he was just opting to either shoot or lay it off short to Milner.

    Of course, it's not all Coutinho's fault, but you could see the team were working to give him the ball and he was just wasting it. To be fair, it was one of the worst performances I've seen from him in a Liverpool shirt. But he'll learn from this and bounce back bigger and better.
    Burnley weren't pressing him they were staying compact, even for him the ateas were too tight. That said if he was being played in the midfield times when Burnley did press like the first goal would have mean coutinho could have been deep enough to get on the ball and make them look like fools.

    The reason teams weren't pressing gerrard in our big run in 13/14 was because Coutinho was playing deep with him and would break their lines when they tried. In 14/15 henderson was swapped with Coutinho in that role so teams just pressed Gerrard out of the game and people blamed his legs.

    Coutinho offers so much deeper that he would neutralise so many of our issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamingOfKlopp View Post
    Burnley weren't pressing him they were staying compact, even for him the ateas were too tight. That said if he was being played in the midfield times when Burnley did press like the first goal would have mean coutinho could have been deep enough to get on the ball and make them look like fools.

    The reason teams weren't pressing gerrard in our big run in 13/14 was because Coutinho was playing deep with him and would break their lines when they tried. In 14/15 henderson was swapped with Coutinho in that role so teams just pressed Gerrard out of the game and people blamed his legs.

    Coutinho offers so much deeper that he would neutralise so many of our issues.
    I do like Coutinho in midfield. Would love to see this at some point (especially since Jurgen has favoured the 4-3-3 so far)

    ..........Emre Can
    ..Wijnaldum, Coutinho
    Mane, Sturridge, Firmino/Origi

    thing is, deep down we all know Coutinho's capable of winning games from LW - we just need a little bit more consistency and variety from him and we'll be flying
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  11. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamingOfKlopp View Post
    Burnley weren't pressing him they were staying compact, even for him the ateas were too tight. That said if he was being played in the midfield times when Burnley did press like the first goal would have mean coutinho could have been deep enough to get on the ball and make them look like fools.

    The reason teams weren't pressing gerrard in our big run in 13/14 was because Coutinho was playing deep with him and would break their lines when they tried. In 14/15 henderson was swapped with Coutinho in that role so teams just pressed Gerrard out of the game and people blamed his legs.

    Coutinho offers so much deeper that he would neutralise so many of our issues.
    I completely agree with you that Coutinho should play deeper. At least until we got someone in who could actually play that role. But against Burnley I thought the movement infront of him was non-existent. Lallana, Sturridge, and Firmino were all just standing around waiting for the ball. The more compact the opponent the more important it is to have players move into what little spaces exist. I saw very little of that. I honestly thought Coutinho was guilty of this himself.

    I'm not excusing the midfield. It was utterly useless. I don't think Wijnaldum or Hendo in particular managed to do a single productive thing all game. But I would expect more from Firmino, Coutinho, Lallana and Sturridge even taking into account how little they were given to work with.
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  12. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by aGothAndaJock View Post
    I do like Coutinho in midfield. Would love to see this at some point (especially since Jurgen has favoured the 4-3-3 so far)

    ..........Emre Can
    ..Wijnaldum, Coutinho
    Mane, Sturridge, Firmino/Origi

    thing is, deep down we all know Coutinho's capable of winning games from LW - we just need a little bit more consistency and variety from him and we'll be flying
    He is but he will fill such a crucial role in the midfield that over a season we will win more games having him there than lw. We can also then focus on getting a proper lw to compliment those who we have in the forward line.

    Everytime i think of him in the midfield im reminded of this game

    https://youtu.be/_KQo5nBhIwY

    He is just so unforgiving when he gets the ball early, if we are to go to the next level Coutinho needs to be the player who is touching the ball straight after a turn over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewdleyfan View Post
    I see that excuse being used more and more.

    But for me, the sign of a real top player is one who performs to a high standard consistently, irrelevant of which club they play for and who their team mates are.

    Phillipe hasn't earned or shown enough consistently to earn a move to a top side as it stands, in my opinion.
    Although I agree with your overall point were you not part of the group who claimed Gerrard was holding Henderson back?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamingOfKlopp View Post
    He is but he will fill such a crucial role in the midfield that over a season we will win more games having him there than lw. We can also then focus on getting a proper lw to compliment those who we have in the forward line.

    Everytime i think of him in the midfield im reminded of this game

    https://youtu.be/_KQo5nBhIwY

    He is just so unforgiving when he gets the ball early, if we are to go to the next level Coutinho needs to be the player who is touching the ball straight after a turn over.
    I agree with this, especially the last sentence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamingOfKlopp View Post
    He is but he will fill such a crucial role in the midfield that over a season we will win more games having him there than lw. We can also then focus on getting a proper lw to compliment those who we have in the forward line.

    Everytime i think of him in the midfield im reminded of this game

    https://youtu.be/_KQo5nBhIwY

    He is just so unforgiving when he gets the ball early, if we are to go to the next level Coutinho needs to be the player who is touching the ball straight after a turn over.
    'Unforgiving' is a great word to describe him in that role.
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  16. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batteries View Post
    I agree with this, especially the last sentence.
    Coutinho offers you everything you could ever ask for from a midfield playmaker, ive said it since we signed him he wears 10 but is more of an 8. If we are playing a midfield 3 it is a travesty not to play him there. Especially when its Lallana playing there instead.

    I also think Brannagan should also be getting game time if we are playing a midfield 3, if there is any player in our club that has a similar game to Coutinho it is Brannagan.

    Wjnaldum and Coutinho should be our first team cms with Grujic and Brannagan being developed behind them. Then there is also Elijah, for me getting the most out of these players serves more purpose than trying to make players like Lallana and Henderson players they arnt.
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    The issue for me is less about Coutinho and more about those surrounding him... Where is the movement in front him which allows him to show his creativity? Without that he on many occasions is left trying to go for a long range effort which rarely goes in... He needs more help around him... Mediocre talents like Hendo and Milner doesn't help...
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  18. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by aGothAndaJock View Post
    'Unforgiving' is a great word to describe him in that role.
    Yep it is the role i want him playing in, it doesn't matter how well organised a an opponent is, players like coutinho don't give them time to react if they can get on the ball early enough. Problem is in our current set up we arnt looking to get coutinho to start the moves we are aiming to get him on the ball last to finish them. I hate him being in that role.

    Ill go as far as saying if Coutinho was being played in that role he would have a better season than Pogba.
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  19. #49  
    Larissa Karius is online now First team regular
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    I've said it before - Coutinho should be deployed on the left of a three man midfield. That's where he would do the most damage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngriestRed View Post
    The issue for me is less about Coutinho and more about those surrounding him... Where is the movement in front him which allows him to show his creativity? Without that he on many occasions is left trying to go for a long range effort which rarely goes in... He needs more help around him... Mediocre talents like Hendo and Milner doesn't help...
    This is a good point, especially if he is relying on them to distribute the ball to him. It just isn't going to work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red-And-Proud View Post
    Yes I've been banging that drum all pre season, drop him a little deeper and it will give him more influence on the game (hopefully) seriously can't see how that will effect his game, where he currently play (occaional wonder goal, magic pass etc)
    Coutinho could still drift out a little and take on those shots, he'd have more space to do so as well. He has done those kind of breathtaking things from deep and in the middle on a much more consistent basis as well. We'd score more goals for sure.
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  22. #52  
    aylesbyred is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    All of 8 days ago it was a Coutinho love in, this is his season, goals galore, what a player

    One game later this.

    Gotta love this place but of course we need to bear in mind since the flukey toe poke at Arsenal he's had 16 really shocking games all on his own
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batteries View Post
    What's happened to him? His game has changed.

    This has been a subject that's been bothering me for a year now.

    If I remember correctly Coutinho (as well as others) played a pivotal part in our charge for the title in 2013/14. It's all well and good having a world class striker in Suarez and a top finisher in Sturridge, but they need supply. Coutinho back in those days was more focused on supplying our deadly strikers, he in particular seemed to have formed a relationship with Sturridge. He'd always seem to find him with an acute pass. He was more focused on key passes, rather than goals.

    These were the days of a Coutinho "The Key Master". Coutinho "The Playmaker". Coutinho "The Wizard". Now he's just Coutinho "I'll have a go from 40 yards and because I hit so many, one's gonna go in eventually" if there's space. There must be a stat out there of who takes the most long shots, he must be first on that list. I don't know that official count but he must have had at least 7 long shots at Turf Moor the other day.

    Now this isn't his doing, I firmly believe that the departure of Suarez and injury ridden Sturridge has forced him to change his game. We used to possess forwards who would make clever, darting runs. Suarez was so so clever, never not on the move. When Sturridge was playing up front, he played most of the time on the shoulder of the defender. Now he's acting as our deep lying playmaker?

    This change of game from Coutinho of course hasn't been help by the arrival of target men at this club, Balotelli, Lambert & Benteke. I actually rate Benteke as a striker, but he was never ever a fit for this club. As a club, we're not about long ball and crosses. It's always been pass and move. In the right environment, Benteke will flourish but in an environment like ours a target man's predominant weakness is shown. Appalling movement. No movement, no pass.

    We need to get Coutinho back to his playmaking best, because I just don't see him as playmaker anymore. But it may be too late, Coutinho may be set in the mindset that he's LFC's best player so he needs to make things happen by himself by scoring goals, but the shots that he takes are low percentage shots and sometimes there's a pass on which he ignores because of this state of mind.

    People bang on about Coutinho moving to a bigger club, but he'll never move to a bigger club if he doesn't get back to the Coutinho that shocked us when he arrived in January and turned our season around with Sturridge by putting life into a stagnate Liverpool attack.

    It's a shame because I doubt we'll ever see this Coutinho again, simply by the way we now play. He's out there, on the left hand side of Sturridge who either injured or deeper that Coutinho himself. Even if Origi was on the pitch, a player who's capable of playing on the shoulder, I feel like Coutinho would ignore chances to play a key pass. Firmino simply isn't the type to make runs in behind.

    I dunno, I just feel like we have inadvertently forced Coutinho into this long shot monster and it's not the way forward in my opinion. I would like him to get back to focusing on key passes, and not have a go every time there's space in front of him. But of course, I (we) don't know if he's being asked to play in this fashion.

    Who knows, but I would prefer this Coutinho back.
    --
    Agree 1000%, top post. I've been wanting to start a thread about this for quite some time.

    That video is pretty telling too; these days he wouldn't even look for the pass and just go for goal himself in those situations.
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  24. #54  
    SoulPower7 is online now Academy prospect
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    Phil is the least of our problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aylesbyred View Post
    Gotta love this place but of course we need to bear in mind since the flukey toe poke at Arsenal he's had 16 really shocking games all on his own
    The problem with this place is all it takes just one person to make an irrational comment and the whole fan base is generalised as irrational, we all want Kopp out because NYSCOUSER said so
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  26. #56  
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    Quote Originally Posted by -SP7- View Post
    Phil is the least of our problems.
    In fact he isn't a problem at all, i just prefer us to use him in a position where he is less reliant on those around him to impact the game. When your midfield isn't functioning and you are a left winger it can be very difficult for you to influence the game which is why he drifts in and out of games.
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  27. #57  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emaxx2 View Post
    The problem with this place is all it takes just one person to make an irrational comment and the whole fan base is generalised as irrational, we all want Kopp out because NYSCOUSER said so
    Who is the we that wants Klopp out?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamingOfKlopp View Post
    Who is the we that wants Klopp out?
    I'm saying one person said it now everytime someone complains about something, the rose tinted crew paint it as everyone turning their back on klopp
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider-neil View Post
    His shots from the edge of the area are getting pretty ********** infuriating.
    Not his fault there is no movement in front of him the main question we should be asking is why on earth was Sturridge playing as a deep lying playmaker ?
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  30. #60  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emaxx2 View Post
    I'm saying one person said it now everytime someone complains about something, the rose tinted crew paint it as everyone turning their back on klopp
    Ah i just ignore them, if we can tolerate BR for as long as we did im sure Klopp has plenty of time to get things right.
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