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Thread: How do you see the world and what has happened or is happening? Part 2

  1. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyMc9 View Post
    i think the west have caused the most trouble throughout history and continue to do so , but no need to turn a blind eye to what other nations or regions are doing.

    Look at any war over the last 100 years , if there is anything profitable to be made out of the wars watch us and uk stroll right in like they own the place.
    well be a lot religious wars over time

    https://addictivelists.com/10-bigges...s-ever-fought/


    Lebanese Civil War

    This war is very particular and different from other religious wars, as it was fought between Sunnis and Shiites at the land of Lebanon. Both sides belong to different ethnic groups of Islam and they both wanted the government control of Lebanon. The Lebanese Civil War started in

    1975 and ended and the end of 1990 and it was estimated that more than 150,000 people were killed in these inter-country conflicts.

    Although the biggest groups were Sunni and Shi’ite, there were also Druze groups, Armenian Groups, Maronite groups and Secular groups involved in this war.

    ==============================================

    Second Sudanese Civil war

    Although the first war was stopped years ago, there were some conflicts left on both sides, and those differences once again forced the same two groups to fight for their rights in the Sudanese land. The Second Sudanese Civil War started in 1983 and it lasted up to 2005. During this time, more than 2 million people died in the war and most of them were civilians.

    ===============================

    First Sudanese Civil War

    This religious war is also referred to as the Anyanya I, because of the rebels who participated in the war. It was fought on the Sudan borders in between the military of Sudan and the Anyanya guerrilla forces. It’s a rough estimate that about 10,000 soldiers participated from both sides, and that it lasted for more than 16 years, starting from 1955 and ending at 1972. It was only fought because of ethnic and religious difference between Muslims and Christians. The worst thing about the First Sudanese Civil War is that, by the time it was over, there were already more than half a million deaths of soldiers and civilians.

    ================================================

    Nigerian Civil War

    Biafran war was also one of the most lethal wars in history, that was fought because of religious and ethnic disputes and conflicts in the land of Nigeria. This war was fought between Igbo of Southern Nigeria and Hausas of Northern Nigeria, for more than 2 years in between July 6, 1967 and January 15, 1970. More than 100,000 soldiers participated from the Igbo provinces and about 30,000 soldiers were from Biafran areas. In the end, it left more than 1 million deaths including the soldiers and the civilians. There were many other religions involved in this war but mainly it was between Muslims and Christians.

    =======================================

    then got

    Arab-Israeli conflict definition. A conflict between the Israelis and the Arabs in the Middle East. The United Nations established Israel, a nation under control of Jews, in Palestine in the late 1940s, in territory inhabited by Palestinian Arabs.

    and so on,

    the west has done a lot damage and interfering but the rest of the world a lot of countries have done damage far worse you only have to look at the Bible see how long wars have been going before the West got involved
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  2. #62  
    TheSoundLady is offline Optimistic Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    the west has done a lot damage and interfering but the rest of the world a lot of countries have done damage far worse you only have to look at the Bible see how long wars have been going before the West got involved
    Pshhhhhhhhhhh the rest of the world has done "damage far worse"?

    The entire world only exists as it does because Europe colonized the entire planet, drew lines on maps, exploited resources, started a slave trade, etc. It's *why* the West is rich, in a modern sense.

    Sure the whole world is responsible for the whole world's problems. Sure there is blood on everyone's hands.

    But the rest of the world has done "damage far worse"......... come on dude.
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    See the Turkish are using the Aleppo bloodfest to do some Kurdish bomb runs

    Now they have been told by Syria - you risk getting your planes shot down...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    See the Turkish are using the Aleppo bloodfest to do some Kurdish bomb runs

    Now they have been told by Syria - you risk getting your planes shot down...
    The Turks will always use any reason possible to bomb some kurds. Its a sport
    After so many centuries it most hurt them that the original anatolians dont want to be assimilated
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  5. #65  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSoundLady View Post
    Can you give me the highlights, both about what the e-mails reveal about the family other than their wealth, and what Clinton's dealings with them are?
    I can find more probably. Will look. Start with this .... the writing in bold red are links to emails I think. http://www.trueactivist.com/hillary-...-leaked-email/

    https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/250

    http://www.mintpressnews.com/hillary...-email/221570/
    Last edited by dreams-come-true; 21-10-16 at 18:41.
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  6. #66  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Palm Oil not just in Indonesia, Amazon, but also in Africa

    https://www.theguardian.com/sustaina...s-sinoe-county
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSoundLady View Post
    Pshhhhhhhhhhh the rest of the world has done "damage far worse"?

    The entire world only exists as it does because Europe colonized the entire planet, drew lines on maps, exploited resources, started a slave trade, etc. It's *why* the West is rich, in a modern sense.

    Sure the whole world is responsible for the whole world's problems. Sure there is blood on everyone's hands.

    But the rest of the world has done "damage far worse"......... come on dude.
    you are ignoring the rest of the world history just to prove that Europe caused all the problems

    So in Englishman pee in a war chief pot in Africa what caused mass genocide on horrific scale

    Want about Chinese dynasty wars, Genghis Khan, Sino-Japanese War, Before Christ Egypt's Israel the whole middle east and so on was at war

    That was all caused you said rightly by the European countries invading all over the all of the world causing all those problems,

    well as a major re-history lesson there
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  8. #68  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    you are ignoring the rest of the world history just to prove that Europe caused all the problems

    So in Englishman pee in a war chief pot in Africa what caused mass genocide on horrific scale

    Want about Chinese dynasty wars, Genghis Khan, Sino-Japanese War, Before Christ Egypt's Israel the whole middle east and so on was at war

    That was all caused you said rightly by the European countries invading all over the all of the world causing all those problems,

    well as a major re-history lesson there
    Nevertheless Beaut, the US has a military presence in hundreds of countries around the world. Most of the wars since the end of the 2nd WW have been about control of resources and getting rid of regimes not friendly to the Free Market way of doing things. Iraq, Libya, and now Syria. Through mainly foul means and the socalled fight for democracy.

    Many Muslims do not have this Shia vs Sunni mentality you and the rest of the Media speaks about. Yes, there are extreme Wahabbis from the Saudi peninsular who have sway over their governments. They want dominance and control. Allies of the West. Syria was and still is a secular state.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    Nevertheless Beaut, the US has a military presence in hundreds of countries around the world. Most of the wars since the end of the 2nd WW have been about control of resources and getting rid of regimes not friendly to the Free Market way of doing things. Iraq, Libya, and now Syria. Through mainly foul means and the socalled fight for democracy.

    Many Muslims do not have this Shia vs Sunni mentality you and the rest of the Media speaks about. Yes, there are extreme Wahabbis from the Saudi peninsular who have sway over their governments. They want dominance and control. Allies of the West. Syria was and still is a secular state.
    So you comparing modern affairs the rest of the 200,000 years what the human race has been on this planet,

    The whole of Europe was a tribal existence where the rest of world for conquering countries all over the place

    And there was conflict long before like I said Europe was ever formed, and is continuous violence and the rest of world was that any European intervention

    But that doesn't go with a fairytale of most people's history lesson what they trying to write

    Billy Joel - We Didn't Start the Fire

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g
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  10. #70  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    So you comparing modern affairs the rest of the 200,000 years what the human race has been on this planet,

    The whole of Europe was a tribal existence where the rest of world for conquering countries all over the place

    And there was conflict long before like I said Europe was ever formed, and is continuous violence and the rest of world was that any European intervention

    But that doesn't go with a fairytale of most people's history lesson what they trying to write

    Billy Joel - We Didn't Start the Fire

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g
    I try to keep things in the modern day yes. I know there have been loads of atrocities in history. They have happened for whatever reason. But they didn't happen practically in my lifetime. The first Peace Treaty recorded in History was between the Hittites and Egypt's Ramases II.

    Nevertheless, we have not had such a GLOBAL ECONOMIC system EVER. This is the subject which keeps my mind occupied. Not living in the past where conflicts where fairly local.... Apart from the few Empires which spread out quite far like the Romans, Mongolians, .... They are puny compared to the Global System imposed now. The future of our planet is at stake.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    well be a lot religious wars over time

    https://addictivelists.com/10-bigges...s-ever-fought/


    Lebanese Civil War



    This war is very particular and different from other religious wars, as it was fought between Sunnis and Shiites at the land of Lebanon. Both sides belong to different ethnic groups of Islam and they both wanted the government control of Lebanon. The Lebanese Civil War started in

    1975 and ended and the end of 1990 and it was estimated that more than 150,000 people were killed in these inter-country conflicts.

    Although the biggest groups were Sunni and Shi’ite, there were also Druze groups, Armenian Groups, Maronite groups and Secular groups involved in this war.

    ==============================================

    Second Sudanese Civil war

    Although the first war was stopped years ago, there were some conflicts left on both sides, and those differences once again forced the same two groups to fight for their rights in the Sudanese land. The Second Sudanese Civil War started in 1983 and it lasted up to 2005. During this time, more than 2 million people died in the war and most of them were civilians.

    ===============================

    First Sudanese Civil War

    This religious war is also referred to as the Anyanya I, because of the rebels who participated in the war. It was fought on the Sudan borders in between the military of Sudan and the Anyanya guerrilla forces. It’s a rough estimate that about 10,000 soldiers participated from both sides, and that it lasted for more than 16 years, starting from 1955 and ending at 1972. It was only fought because of ethnic and religious difference between Muslims and Christians. The worst thing about the First Sudanese Civil War is that, by the time it was over, there were already more than half a million deaths of soldiers and civilians.

    ================================================

    Nigerian Civil War

    Biafran war was also one of the most lethal wars in history, that was fought because of religious and ethnic disputes and conflicts in the land of Nigeria. This war was fought between Igbo of Southern Nigeria and Hausas of Northern Nigeria, for more than 2 years in between July 6, 1967 and January 15, 1970. More than 100,000 soldiers participated from the Igbo provinces and about 30,000 soldiers were from Biafran areas. In the end, it left more than 1 million deaths including the soldiers and the civilians. There were many other religions involved in this war but mainly it was between Muslims and Christians.

    =======================================

    then got

    Arab-Israeli conflict definition. A conflict between the Israelis and the Arabs in the Middle East. The United Nations established Israel, a nation under control of Jews, in Palestine in the late 1940s, in territory inhabited by Palestinian Arabs.

    and so on,

    the west has done a lot damage and interfering but the rest of the world a lot of countries have done damage far worse you only have to look at the Bible see how long wars have been going before the West got involved
    Do you know who supplied the weapons to the actors in these conflicts?. This should also be taken into account when pointing the finger as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    you are ignoring the rest of the world history just to prove that Europe caused all the problems

    So in Englishman pee in a war chief pot in Africa what caused mass genocide on horrific scale

    Want about Chinese dynasty wars, Genghis Khan, Sino-Japanese War, Before Christ Egypt's Israel the whole middle east and so on was at war

    That was all caused you said rightly by the European countries invading all over the all of the world causing all those problems,

    well as a major re-history lesson there
    None of those you mentioned waged war out of humanitarian reasons.
    To mention historical wars as a defense for the western countries warmongering is as hypocritical as the reasons for western interfirence around the world.
    There is absolutelly no "higher reason" behind our deeds
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    The Turks will always use any reason possible to bomb some kurds. Its a sport
    After so many centuries it most hurt them that the original anatolians dont want to be assimilated

    Probably the same reason we bomb "terrorists" and they do have a tad more of a problem with terrorism than we do as we sit here in the relative safety of the uk/us passing judgement on all with our arrogance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    So you comparing modern affairs the rest of the 200,000 years what the human race has been on this planet,

    The whole of Europe was a tribal existence where the rest of world for conquering countries all over the place

    And there was conflict long before like I said Europe was ever formed, and is continuous violence and the rest of world was that any European intervention

    But that doesn't go with a fairytale of most people's history lesson what they trying to write

    Billy Joel - We Didn't Start the Fire

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g
    Humans are primitive and violent race.
    They have the capacity to learn. Some have goodness in them. Some do not..........
    But life is the right of all sentient beings.

    look on here most don't agree
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    Quote Originally Posted by baddabing View Post
    Probably the same reason we bomb "terrorists" and they do have a tad more of a problem with terrorism than we do as we sit here in the relative safety of the uk/us passing judgement on all with our arrogance.
    We havent fought terrorists for 700 years in straight continuity
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    I try to keep things in the modern day yes. I know there have been loads of atrocities in history. They have happened for whatever reason. But they didn't happen practically in my lifetime. The first Peace Treaty recorded in History was between the Hittites and Egypt's Ramases II.

    Nevertheless, we have not had such a GLOBAL ECONOMIC system EVER. This is the subject which keeps my mind occupied. Not living in the past where conflicts where fairly local.... Apart from the few Empires which spread out quite far like the Romans, Mongolians, .... They are puny compared to the Global System imposed now. The future of our planet is at stake.
    so how old are you ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    We havent fought terrorists for 700 years in straight continuity
    ???????????????????????????
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    Quote Originally Posted by baddabing View Post
    Do you know who supplied the weapons to the actors in these conflicts?. This should also be taken into account when pointing the finger as well.
    you give a gun to kid,

    did make the kid kill his family

    did give the kid hate to kill people

    did you give years of hate to rest of kids

    fact is war has long been going before west been around
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  19. #79  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Lessons to be learned from History .... The Khmer Empire lasted 600 years, which isn't bad going. Built the biggest pre-industrial city in the world where near on 1 million people lived. Angkor, in Cambodia. The demise of Angkor should be a lesson for us living in the big cities of today.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePWyWXBWYbM
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  20. #80  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    you give a gun to kid,

    did make the kid kill his family

    did give the kid hate to kill people

    did you give years of hate to rest of kids

    fact is war has long been going before west been around
    I can not see the point here. May be you can expand on this.
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  21. #81  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    so how old are you ?
    60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    None of those you mentioned waged war out of humanitarian reasons.
    To mention historical wars as a defense for the western countries warmongering is as hypocritical as the reasons for western interfirence around the world.
    There is absolutelly no "higher reason" behind our deeds
    I don't think it was a defence for western wars but placing things in context. That is not hypocritical or unreasonable when a single group (west) is picked out as a comparison.

    And if the west is judged by a different yardstick then that is actually a compliment if sorts.

    The funny thing is that a lot of the anti-west rhetoric on these boards assumes the role of white knight standing up for the rest of the world - here's news - you don't. It might be convenient to ignore the rest of the world bar the middle-east/pockets of Africa/muslim diaspora, but they (rest of world) are the majority. What happens in these geopolitical conflicts matters beyond the limited scope people was to focus on.

    In is just as fair to say the 'rest' would rather a western geopolitical dominance than a chinese or russian one. The idea there will be no geopolitical dominance is naive to say the least.

    We are not in an end war, just the next step in society developing and therefore the choices may not all be perfect but you have to step towards progress. Clash of civilisations has happened before, happens now, and will happen in future. In my opinion the only way out of it is technology and eradicating poverty. I belive and others will disagree, that the west is key to achieving that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    ???????????????????????????
    Turkish kurdish conflict.
    The kurds are the medes, the anatolians invaded by the turko mongolians
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    60
    Just a bit of a lad, then.
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  25. #85  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    I don't think it was a defence for western wars but placing things in context. That is not hypocritical or unreasonable when a single group (west) is picked out as a comparison.

    And if the west is judged by a different yardstick then that is actually a compliment if sorts.

    The funny thing is that a lot of the anti-west rhetoric on these boards assumes the role of white knight standing up for the rest of the world - here's news - you don't. It might be convenient to ignore the rest of the world bar the middle-east/pockets of Africa/muslim diaspora, but they (rest of world) are the majority. What happens in these geopolitical conflicts matters beyond the limited scope people was to focus on.

    In is just as fair to say the 'rest' would rather a western geopolitical dominance than a chinese or russian one. The idea there will be no geopolitical dominance is naive to say the least.

    We are not in an end war, just the next step in society developing and therefore the choices may not all be perfect but you have to step towards progress. Clash of civilisations has happened before, happens now, and will happen in future. In my opinion the only way out of it is technology and eradicating poverty. I belive and others will disagree, that the west is key to achieving that.
    Really. Look, justify this progress in society when vast swathes of people in the US and the UK have been made unemployed and are fighting for the low paid jobs available ... as well as the effectiveness in Austerity imposed on the domestic populations of these powerfully rich and influential countries. Do let me know where there is "progress" in any of this.
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  26. #86  
    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    Just a bit of a lad, then.
    Many say I look 40. But yes, I do not "feel" old. But have had long enough to find out a bit about our world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    I don't think it was a defence for western wars but placing things in context. That is not hypocritical or unreasonable when a single group (west) is picked out as a comparison.

    And if the west is judged by a different yardstick then that is actually a compliment if sorts.

    The funny thing is that a lot of the anti-west rhetoric on these boards assumes the role of white knight standing up for the rest of the world - here's news - you don't. It might be convenient to ignore the rest of the world bar the middle-east/pockets of Africa/muslim diaspora, but they (rest of world) are the majority. What happens in these geopolitical conflicts matters beyond the limited scope people was to focus on.

    In is just as fair to say the 'rest' would rather a western geopolitical dominance than a chinese or russian one. The idea there will be no geopolitical dominance is naive to say the least.

    We are not in an end war, just the next step in society developing and therefore the choices may not all be perfect but you have to step towards progress. Clash of civilisations has happened before, happens now, and will happen in future. In my opinion the only way out of it is technology and eradicating poverty. I belive and others will disagree, that the west is key to achieving that.
    There is no wars other then the one that is eternal.
    I dont attack the west for other reason then its hypocritical attempt to try to hide its ugly face behind a curtain of philosophies they dont follow.
    And geopolitical who controls the world is of no matter, since all sides are equal in its idiocies.
    Its hillarious how people actually think that the rule of primitive primates named a is better then the rule of primitive primates named b.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    Many say I look 40. But yes, I do not "feel" old. But have had long enough to find out a bit about our world.
    Indeed.

    I remember saying to that young Hannibal Barca.. 'Don't do it, lad. It'll all end in tears.'

    But would he listen? Would he heck as like.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    We havent fought terrorists for 700 years in straight continuity
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    ???????????????????????????
    ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    Really. Look, justify this progress in society when vast swathes of people in the US and the UK have been made unemployed and are fighting for the low paid jobs available ... as well as the effectiveness in Austerity imposed on the domestic populations of these powerfully rich and influential countries. Do let me know where there is "progress" in any of this.
    The poverty of those in the UK and US is incomparable to poverty in parts of Africa and India. To batter the west over that doesnt make sense to me.

    Though you have a point in that there are huge problems in western society - corporatism, falling frequency of 'circulation of the elites', bad and lazy governance the leaves many struggling, decadence, cultural issues. But as societies we are not perfect and we work on those issues
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