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Thread: More Tea Please, Brexit and the Stiff Upper Lip 2

  1. #1 Default More Tea Please, Brexit and the Stiff Upper Lip 2 
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    Brexit the Aftermath is nearing its life end of 100 pages -



    Enter More Tea Please, Brexit and the Stiff Upper Lip 2
    Everything is alright with a cup of tea.....
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  2. #2  
    bilsland is offline LFC Forums Moderator
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    As you were folks
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  3. #3  
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    Its back!

    Well played
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    Coach791 is offline First team regular
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    Report says 'real wages' by 2021 will still be lower than pre 2008. First time in 70 years no real wage increase for majority of population for 13 years.
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    This has been coming for sometime, the Osborne plan was always hugely flawed if it didn't come off, and it hasn't. Big Dave has refinanced his friends in the city of London, sold of the post office and loyds on the cheap to them, and done a runner, while we're left picking up the pieces again!!!!

    We are at the point now, where we can't do without Europe and it blows out all our negotiating strength.

    I genuinely despair for the next 10 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonitez View Post

    We are at the point now, where we can't do without Europe and it blows out all our negotiating strength.
    Steady on
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    Coach791 is offline First team regular
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    I would just like to add carrying on from the previous my point about delaying Brexit. When ministers want to act they do so quickly and tell the public there is no time to lose (Invasion of Iraq & Syria) that's because they don't want the public to have to ask is there an alternative to military action?

    It's like the hard sell pushing for a decision now. It's just a trick to get co-operation before alternatives are found. Brexit on the other I predicted each step was to stall. High Courts blocking, House of Lords, MP's to decide even though the public voted.

    Much bigger than Brexit is our need to actually be in charge. We tell politicians what we want not the other way around. We have poster like Welshy and Ghyll who haven't got a scooby do what's going on. As they're pro Europe they think it is fine to delay a democratic vote.

    In their minds it's to plan. Yet we know there are no plans in place. No extra staff have been taken on. There's no plan to trigger Article 50 and nothing is happening.

    The real reason is the government are planning ways around our vote. They're blocking it, delaying it until they discover a way to get around public wishes which should be a crime. I predicted that scare stories about Brexit would increase the further we get from the referendum.

    With nothing happening at all now out universities will close because of Brexit.

    http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-cou...demic-10670469

    Tony Blair and John Major have suggested a second referendum exactly as I predicted

    http://news.sky.com/story/former-pm-...opped-10670991

    Now Mexico doesn't charge tuition fees, their universities are free and yet we charge for ours and we will still have to close them 'according to some' which is an absolute nonsense.

    I don't care if you're pro Brexit or anti Brexit in truth you haven't got a clue what's best, nobody does. However governments delaying democratic votes so they can find a way around or manufacture consent for a second referendum is shocking. It is a crime against the public and even those supporting staying in the EU should be ashamed at what is happening it is downright disgusting.

    The likely truth is there will be no Brexit. Something will change in Europe that sounds like a fundamental change but will be a technical change and a second referendum will be called. Either that or the government will delay and delay until the next financial or military crisis and it will simply be left so long that we simply can't trigger because 'we're in a different time now, a different world'

    Or the Conservatives will devise a plan where Theresa May say absolutely we will leave Europe. Then she will delay until the next election and say if you want out vote Conservative as Corbyn doesn't want to leave.

    They will find some way around listening to us if we let them. Put your feelings aside of which way you 'believe' is best and focus on the bigger picture. The public spoke and nobody is listening. That's awful.
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    Once again what Coach's long lectures fail to recognise is while the public spoke, a large part of that very same public also disagreed so as part of a democracy, when there are serious concerns about the terms of something so major for the UK, then to revisit and ensure 'the people' are heard again if needs be, is perfectly reasonable and sensible.

    Why charge headstrong into something so massive when its become increasingly clear the deal we voted on is flawed and possibly in quite disastrous terms.

    Don't fall for Coach's 'parlour tricks' () and amateur dramatics and essentially a directionless passive nonsense where on one hand you should put aside your feelings on Brexit while on the other limply accept the outcome.

    Just not reality, more of a sat in your bedroom lecturing kids about corporate evils while playing xbox type lecture

    Oh and I work in a major University where Brexit is largely deemed as disastrous for our HE sector, we're scrambling around coming up with ever changing strategies to survive post Brexit, if things stay as we are, we benefit, our research funding deals remain, our overseas students and employees will be happier and feel more welcome, and more will want to come to feed into our economy and their own.

    Don't fall for Sky News parlour tricks Coach, honestly.

    Plus you were informing us that these University experts don't have clue, their research is all flawed etc etc, now you are proffering Sky News as a source of credible info.
    Last edited by welshypool; 25-11-16 at 09:30.
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    Coach791 is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Once again what Coach's long lectures fail to recognise is while the public spoke, a large part of that very same public also disagreed so as part of a democracy, when there are serious concerns about the terms of something so major for the UK, then to revisit and ensure 'the people' are heard again if needs be, is perfectly reasonable and sensible.

    Why charge headstrong into something so massive when its become increasingly clear the deal we voted on is flawed and possibly in quite disastrous terms.

    Don't fall for Coach's 'parlour tricks' () and amateur dramatics and essentially a directionless passive nonsense where on one hand you should put aside your feelings on Brexit while on the other limply accept the outcome.

    Just not reality, more of a sat in your bedroom lecturing kids about corporate evils while playing xbox type lecture
    Typical response. You have a vote. Outcome of vote doesn't matter. That's democracy to Welshy. I don't play XBOX I'm not talking to children unless you're a child?

    In a democracy the majority rule. You were in the minority. I had no idea which way to vote. You think you do know and you haven't got a clue. you hadn't even worked out the financial fraud in the EU.

    Typical obedient spectator. Believing the EU has an ideological purpose, you probably believed Iraq had WMD's, you'll believe government when they lie and tell you they're planning Brexit whilst hiring nobody. They are planning.....................how to avoid accepting public vote.

    Is there anything government don't feed you that you question? Ohhhhhhh yes, EU ideological mmmmm give me more. Yes please discount a referendum in the name of democracy yum I love it. WMD's in Iraq oh yes that's delicious.....................I bet you actually believed we couldn't afford tuition fees as well even though Mexico funds their kids for free.

    You didn't even understand when you said you were worried about losing 246m from EU you only got 180m and you acquired 2 billion in British debt to get it and were given 400m of cuts at the same time.

    Neither democracy not mathematics are you strong point and you can't even spot when governments con you.
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  10. #10  
    WirralRiddler is online now These posts brought to you by Dr Dre & Only Fools & Horses appreciation society
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    They will find some way around listening to us if we let them. Put your feelings aside of which way you 'believe' is best and focus on the bigger picture. The public spoke and nobody is listening. That's awful.
    Well said that Coach.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    Typical response. You have a vote. Outcome of vote doesn't matter. That's democracy to Welshy. I don't play XBOX I'm not talking to children unless you're a child?

    In a democracy the majority rule. You were in the minority. I had no idea which way to vote. You think you do know and you haven't got a clue. you hadn't even worked out the financial fraud in the EU.

    Typical obedient spectator. Believing the EU has an ideological purpose, you probably believed Iraq had WMD's, you'll believe government when they lie and tell you they're planning Brexit whilst hiring nobody. They are planning.....................how to avoid accepting public vote.

    Is there anything government don't feed you that you question? Ohhhhhhh yes, EU ideological mmmmm give me more. Yes please discount a referendum in the name of democracy yum I love it. WMD's in Iraq oh yes that's delicious.....................I bet you actually believed we couldn't afford tuition fees as well even though Mexico funds their kids for free.

    You didn't even understand when you said you were worried about losing 246m from EU you only got 180m and you acquired 2 billion in British debt to get it and were given 400m of cuts at the same time.

    Neither democracy not mathematics are you strong point and you can't even spot when governments con you.
    Yes yes you literally have nothing to say, action is certainly not your strong point, just rambling on which I'm sure impressionable teens would be blown away by

    As for what you think I do or don't understand, its inconsequential, you lobbing numbers about which can be interpreted in many different ways while using Sky News as a major source of info regarding a sector I'm in, the very same sector you informed me was full of experts who knew nothing of course.

    You've talked yourself into a vortex of your own making while sitting there smelling your own wind self righteously, while without a hint of irony lecturing others about their pride

    While you are obviously a very intelligent person, your basis of judgement and reasoning forever shifts, is contradictory from day to day, and all only ever to reach the same conclusion, i.e. parlour tricks, evil corporations, do nothing
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  12. #12  
    Coach791 is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by WirralRiddler View Post
    Well said that Coach.
    It's a simple divide and conquer strategy and they use it even in a referendum. There was never going to be a huge majority one way or the other. However in a democratic vote the majority wins because that's the majority will of the people.

    If that doesn't happen and government say well actually we wanted to stay in the EU so we'll just not do anything, play on the fears of those who voted, manufacture a sway of a few %, play in the idiocy of people thinking this is actually democratic to say to them actually we won't listen to the minority and whilst the leave say we voted, we won the majority, the remain campaign don't accept it and start shouting back and both to senseless to realise the people they should be shouting at are the politicians who don't listen to the people and have taken away all their power.

    If you divide people they're easier to manage. The funny thing had remain won nobody would have said a thing. We would have accepted and moved on but those who agree with government think they have a right to overrule the majority.

    I wouldn't mind if any of them actually knew what they were voting for. There's nothing ideological about the EU. Nothing at all the common market is just a trick to get you in. The bigger the market you create then that market needs a governance and regulation and a central bank. It's just a way of enslaving people easier.

    There is no war for the past 200 years that has been fought on an ideological basis. World War II wasn't an ideological fight against the Nazi's, there is no ideological fight against terrorism they were both economic wars and every war is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    I would just like to add carrying on from the previous my point about delaying Brexit. When ministers want to act they do so quickly and tell the public there is no time to lose (Invasion of Iraq & Syria) that's because they don't want the public to have to ask is there an alternative to military action?

    It's like the hard sell pushing for a decision now. It's just a trick to get co-operation before alternatives are found. Brexit on the other I predicted each step was to stall. High Courts blocking, House of Lords, MP's to decide even though the public voted.

    Much bigger than Brexit is our need to actually be in charge. We tell politicians what we want not the other way around. We have poster like Welshy and Ghyll who haven't got a scooby do what's going on. As they're pro Europe they think it is fine to delay a democratic vote.

    In their minds it's to plan. Yet we know there are no plans in place. No extra staff have been taken on. There's no plan to trigger Article 50 and nothing is happening.

    The real reason is the government are planning ways around our vote. They're blocking it, delaying it until they discover a way to get around public wishes which should be a crime. I predicted that scare stories about Brexit would increase the further we get from the referendum.

    With nothing happening at all now out universities will close because of Brexit.

    http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-cou...demic-10670469

    Tony Blair and John Major have suggested a second referendum exactly as I predicted

    http://news.sky.com/story/former-pm-...opped-10670991

    Now Mexico doesn't charge tuition fees, their universities are free and yet we charge for ours and we will still have to close them 'according to some' which is an absolute nonsense.

    I don't care if you're pro Brexit or anti Brexit in truth you haven't got a clue what's best, nobody does. However governments delaying democratic votes so they can find a way around or manufacture consent for a second referendum is shocking. It is a crime against the public and even those supporting staying in the EU should be ashamed at what is happening it is downright disgusting.

    The likely truth is there will be no Brexit. Something will change in Europe that sounds like a fundamental change but will be a technical change and a second referendum will be called. Either that or the government will delay and delay until the next financial or military crisis and it will simply be left so long that we simply can't trigger because 'we're in a different time now, a different world'

    Or the Conservatives will devise a plan where Theresa May say absolutely we will leave Europe. Then she will delay until the next election and say if you want out vote Conservative as Corbyn doesn't want to leave.

    They will find some way around listening to us if we let them. Put your feelings aside of which way you 'believe' is best and focus on the bigger picture. The public spoke and nobody is listening. That's awful.
    You really need to see a doctor, you are not well man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    I would just like to add carrying on from the previous my point about delaying Brexit. When ministers want to act they do so quickly and tell the public there is no time to lose (Invasion of Iraq & Syria) that's because they don't want the public to have to ask is there an alternative to military action?

    It's like the hard sell pushing for a decision now. It's just a trick to get co-operation before alternatives are found. Brexit on the other I predicted each step was to stall. High Courts blocking, House of Lords, MP's to decide even though the public voted.

    Much bigger than Brexit is our need to actually be in charge. We tell politicians what we want not the other way around. We have poster like Welshy and Ghyll who haven't got a scooby do what's going on. As they're pro Europe they think it is fine to delay a democratic vote.

    In their minds it's to plan. Yet we know there are no plans in place. No extra staff have been taken on. There's no plan to trigger Article 50 and nothing is happening.

    The real reason is the government are planning ways around our vote. They're blocking it, delaying it until they discover a way to get around public wishes which should be a crime. I predicted that scare stories about Brexit would increase the further we get from the referendum.

    With nothing happening at all now out universities will close because of Brexit.

    http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-cou...demic-10670469

    Tony Blair and John Major have suggested a second referendum exactly as I predicted

    http://news.sky.com/story/former-pm-...opped-10670991

    Now Mexico doesn't charge tuition fees, their universities are free and yet we charge for ours and we will still have to close them 'according to some' which is an absolute nonsense.

    I don't care if you're pro Brexit or anti Brexit in truth you haven't got a clue what's best, nobody does. However governments delaying democratic votes so they can find a way around or manufacture consent for a second referendum is shocking. It is a crime against the public and even those supporting staying in the EU should be ashamed at what is happening it is downright disgusting.

    The likely truth is there will be no Brexit. Something will change in Europe that sounds like a fundamental change but will be a technical change and a second referendum will be called. Either that or the government will delay and delay until the next financial or military crisis and it will simply be left so long that we simply can't trigger because 'we're in a different time now, a different world'

    Or the Conservatives will devise a plan where Theresa May say absolutely we will leave Europe. Then she will delay until the next election and say if you want out vote Conservative as Corbyn doesn't want to leave.

    They will find some way around listening to us if we let them. Put your feelings aside of which way you 'believe' is best and focus on the bigger picture. The public spoke and nobody is listening. That's awful.
    I can't say I am sure brexit will not be delivered, as my view is that on balance it probably will. BUT, although I was a remain voter, the principle of the 'will of the people'/democracy or whatever we call it is far more important than brexit.

    Nobody can predict the future (the EU was/is not rosy either) and so nearly all elections/referendums are fought on the basis of people predicting what will be best for them. To call it a wrong decision in general assumes huge arrogance of thinking one knows with certainty why each person voted and the future impacts of both the leave and remain choices. What is wrong for one person might be right for another. Even if it is a mistake, people can choose to make that mistake and take that risk. Lets face it - politicians who are at times derided but recently lauded as guardians of judgement against the ignorant masses have made mistakes too - or is the iraq war consigned to history?

    I am not against a 2nd referendum if the situation substantially changes (such as terms of EU membership offered) but that referendum would have to be with the settled uk status being LEAVING EU but a referendum with the substantially different terms offered and do we accept that. Not a re-run with cranked up fear
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    Coach791 is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Yes yes you literally have nothing to say, action is certainly not your strong point, just rambling on which I'm sure impressionable teens would be blown away by

    As for what you think I do or don't understand, its inconsequential, you lobbing numbers about which can be interpreted in many different ways while using Sky News as a major source of info regarding a sector I'm in, the very same sector you informed me was full of experts who knew nothing of course.

    You've talked yourself into a vortex of your own making while sitting there smelling your own wind self righteously, while without a hint of irony lecturing others about their pride

    While you are obviously a very intelligent person, your basis of judgement and reasoning forever shifts, is contradictory from day to day, and all only ever to reach the same conclusion, i.e. parlour tricks, evil corporations, do nothing
    I never used Sky News for my figures. In fact today was the first time I've ever used Sky News in a link. In afct I'm pretty certain in 6 years it would be less thand a handful of times and you didn't question why I used Sky News?

    You didn't think you just jumped to the conclusion I use poor sources. Well think about the context. I suggested the establishment would try and manufacture a change, I predicted it. I predicted they'd delay and come up with increasingly bigger scare stories from corporate, education and then major figures would suggest a second referendum. I predicted all of this and the fact our universities will be closed, the fact we have quotes from Tony Blair and John major asking for a 2nd referendum are coming from a Murdoch (globalist)news organisation should have triggered something off inside you?

    It didn't and instead you criticised my use of source without making the connection.
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    Coach791 is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    I can't say I am sure brexit will not be delivered, as my view is that on balance it probably will. BUT, although I was a remain voter, the principle of the 'will of the people'/democracy or whatever we call it is far more important than brexit.

    Nobody can predict the future (the EU was/is not rosy either) and so nearly all elections/referendums are fought on the basis of people predicting what will be best for them. To call it a wrong decision in general assumes huge arrogance of thinking one knows with certainty why each person voted and the future impacts of both the leave and remain choices. What is wrong for one person might be right for another. Even if it is a mistake, people can choose to make that mistake and take that risk. Lets face it - politicians who are at times derided but recently lauded as guardians of judgement against the ignorant masses have made mistakes too - or is the iraq war consigned to history?

    I am not against a 2nd referendum if the situation substantially changes (such as terms of EU membership offered) but that referendum would have to be with the settled uk status being LEAVING EU but a referendum with the substantially different terms offered and do we accept that. Not a re-run with cranked up fear
    I totally agree. The only thing I believe is we won't leave. Wasn't sure if was ever an option. I couldn't vote because I had no idea which is best. I know the Eu is a monetary scam but I also know out of it could be a problem.

    It's like when you pay protection money. you don't want to pay it but if you don't they smash up your business. That's what happens when you're in debt to criminals and gangsters and make no mistake those in charge of the EU are gangsters just a respectable kind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    I totally agree. The only thing I believe is we won't leave. Wasn't sure if was ever an option. I couldn't vote because I had no idea which is best. I know the Eu is a monetary scam but I also know out of it could be a problem.

    It's like when you pay protection money. you don't want to pay it but if you don't they smash up your business. That's what happens when you're in debt to criminals and gangsters and make no mistake those in charge of the EU are gangsters just a respectable kind.
    **** me.
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    Coach791 is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    **** me.
    I don't know why you're surprised. The EU system takes your money, launders it and gives you a little back. It also forces you to borrow the money missing from your budget and given to the EU from the banks at a high rate of interest.

    It then holds over you the threat of not trading and 'hard Brexit' simply to punish you for wanting to go it alone. It's an economic protection racket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791;12259496[B
    ]I never used Sky News for my figures[/B]. In fact today was the first time I've ever used Sky News in a link. In afct I'm pretty certain in 6 years it would be less thand a handful of times and you didn't question why I used Sky News?

    You didn't think you just jumped to the conclusion I use poor sources. Well think about the context. I suggested the establishment would try and manufacture a change, I predicted it. I predicted they'd delay and come up with increasingly bigger scare stories from corporate, education and then major figures would suggest a second referendum. I predicted all of this and the fact our universities will be closed, the fact we have quotes from Tony Blair and John major asking for a 2nd referendum are coming from a Murdoch (globalist)news organisation should have triggered something off inside you?

    It didn't and instead you criticised my use of source without making the connection.
    I didn't say you used SKy News in relation to figures, I said in relation to the HE sector (or as any major source of info really)

    The rest again is just rambling and your predictions are in no way unique or earth shattering, if you took the time to listen or read other peoples posts properly you'd see an awful lot of people suggested this turn of events they just don't take an age to say it with a conclusion of 'don't fall for tricks, be like me I'm above all that by doing nothing and saying everything.'

    As for Major & Blair, I won't personally **** it and scream 'OMG globalist evil,' purely on association, but dissect some of what they have to say if I believe it to be of merit regardless of their motive, believe it or not people have the wit to do that and you are not a unique genius recognising their potential motives and backdrop (critical evaluation again, although of course you believe all findings and research on the matter are a nonsense, associated experts are clueless as you've stated previously, apart from all your own 'findings' and opinions of course).

    We could argue all day I'm sure but it won't go anywhere so carry on doing whatever it is you are doing, rhetoric on globalism, evil corporations, parlour tricks, do nothing etc etc (again all great if you are an impressionable teenager or a little naive about the machinations of political power).
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    Coach791 is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    I didn't say you used SKy News in relation to figures, I said in relation to the HE sector (or as any major source of info really)

    The rest again is just rambling and your predictions are in no way unique or earth shattering, if you took the time to listen or read other peoples posts properly you'd see an awful lot of people suggested this turn of events they just don't take an age to say it with a conclusion of 'don't fall for tricks, be like me I'm above all that by doing nothing and saying everything.'

    As for Major & Blair, I won't personally **** it and scream 'OMG globalist evil,' purely on association, but dissect some of what they have to say if I believe it to be of merit regardless of their motive, believe it or not people have the wit to do that and you are not a genius recognising their potential motives and backdrop (critical evaluation again, although of course you believe all findings and research on the matter are a nonsense, associated experts are clueless as you've stated previously, apart from all your own 'findings' and opinions of course).

    We could argue all day I'm sure but it won't go anywhere so carry on doing whatever it is you are doing, rhetoric on globalism, evil corporations, parlour tricks, do nothing etc etc
    I am doing something. I'm pointing out that you're supporting government not listening to the people democratically because you selfishly think your opinion is right. You don't care that your opinion is insignificant as is mine but the ability to control our own government is far bigger.

    We've established you don't have a clue about the Eu monetary system and yet you think you know what's best. You want to hear from experts. Experts who get most things wrong. There are any number of experts with expert views and you can pick and choose one to suit your own opinion.

    That's not useful. The experts told us we needed The Washington Consensus, the experts told us Iraq had WMD's, the experts told us instability of the labour market would bring economic growth, the experts told us austerity will work and they were wrong, wrong, wrong and they always will be wrong, wrong, wrong because the experst we get to hear from are the ones owned by money or established power.

    So what's the point of a referendum? If we'd have voted to stay we'd have stayed because government agreed with that. If we vote to leave they'll block it, delay it, produce horror stories to scare us into staying, threaten us and then eventually call for another referendum again until they get the result they want.

    If you want to support that then that's your choice and I can hardly blame the government for exploiting people like yourself and using you as a pawn. If there were less people like you willing to accept governments telling us what to do the world would be in a better place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    I don't know why you're surprised. The EU system takes your money, launders it and gives you a little back. It also forces you to borrow the money missing from your budget and given to the EU from the banks at a high rate of interest.

    It then holds over you the threat of not trading and 'hard Brexit' simply to punish you for wanting to go it alone. It's an economic protection racket.
    I am not feeding the troll, I know what you are doing here. You really should start wondering why you are doing this though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    I am not feeding the troll, I know what you are doing here. You really should start wondering why you are doing this though.
    I understand. When people tell you the truth and you don't enjoy hearing it then it's much easier to say 'la,la,la,la,la' and wish it to go away. The reason you cannot respond is you're incapable of returning with a salient counter argument.

    The facts are clear the EU was sold as collaborative, co-operative single market. However when you create a large single market then you create a governance, regulation and you create a central banking system for it and now the Troika own the EU.

    Yanis Varoufakis the Greek finance minister for a brief time met with the Troika and said they run Europe. They treat political representatives like garbage. We said Wolfgang Schäuble actually said this 'we cannot let democracy get in the way of economic policy' this is straight from the horses mouth.

    This single union was created not to benefit each member but control it. That's why a single currency was created to control the money supply, that's why they're pushing for powers to be able to veto national budgets. That's why they take massive amounts of money from the more economically powerful members and they don't redistribute to other nations they take significant sums for themselves, increase debts in every nation and they distribute with strict guidelines to benefit the few.

    It is an amalgamation of very old scams. No if you wish to intelligently counter that feel free. I don't know how you think this is me being a troll I'm providing my opinions on a political system. Just because you don't like these opinions that's your bad luck.
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  23. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    I am doing something. I'm pointing out that you're supporting government not listening to the people democratically because you selfishly think your opinion is right. You don't care that your opinion is insignificant as is mine but the ability to control our own government is far bigger.

    We've established you don't have a clue about the Eu monetary system and yet you think you know what's best. You want to hear from experts. Experts who get most things wrong. There are any number of experts with expert views and you can pick and choose one to suit your own opinion.

    That's not useful. The experts told us we needed The Washington Consensus, the experts told us Iraq had WMD's, the experts told us instability of the labour market would bring economic growth, the experts told us austerity will work and they were wrong, wrong, wrong and they always will be wrong, wrong, wrong because the experst we get to hear from are the ones owned by money or established power.

    So what's the point of a referendum? If we'd have voted to stay we'd have stayed because government agreed with that. If we vote to leave they'll block it, delay it, produce horror stories to scare us into staying, threaten us and then eventually call for another referendum again until they get the result they want.

    If you want to support that then that's your choice and I can hardly blame the government for exploiting people like yourself and using you as a pawn. If there were less people like you willing to accept governments telling us what to do the world would be in a better place.
    You've now gone all selective over experts now in order to clumsily group then demonise them, while quoting them selectively in other senses as sources to back up your point.

    Again ever shifting reasoning, entirely contradictory and all to reach the same conclusions.

    Save it for those who want to listen to your constant repeat rhetoric, I'm not one of them, as I've suggested already its a level of observation, albeit selective, turned into a melodramatic tangent leading down the exact same path each time as you've done yet again in this latest copy and paste type post.

    I'll keep pointing that out while you'll respond with more lectures about parlour tricks, how I'm being exploited by government (seems most are especially when not agreeing with you) which is rapidly becoming your very lazy and tiresome default argument every time.

    Shame, if you did have a cause, and I believe sometimes in there somewhere you have points, you harm that cause more than anyone else
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  24. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonitez View Post
    This has been coming for sometime, the Osborne plan was always hugely flawed if it didn't come off, and it hasn't. Big Dave has refinanced his friends in the city of London, sold of the post office and loyds on the cheap to them, and done a runner, while we're left picking up the pieces again!!!!

    We are at the point now, where we can't do without Europe and it blows out all our negotiating strength.

    I genuinely despair for the next 10 years.
    Dead right. Truth is that it was 6 years of austerity that has put us in this mess. Brexit is the "icing on the cake" further tying our hands and weakening an already weak economy. But its Osborne's austerity supported by the main newspapers at the time (and some on here) as getting our "deficit down" but in truth its thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Brexit will be a case of giving more control to those who dont give a flying fig about JAMS ie Rupert Murdoch, Dacre and Desmond and all those on the Brexit right in parliament (and i include Lab MPs in that description) who really dont care about the economy or making things or in fact anything to do with public expenditure. They want a free market paradise with no responsibilities and no obligations.
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    Coach is right.

    This has the potential to be about much, much more than some poxy referendum. Parliament decided, overwhelmingly, that they are ill equipped or unwilling to make a decision and handed that decision to us. If our will is thwarted we would be entering into an era of politics more toxic than any other in a very long time. Throughout, this referendum has been about democracy and if the result is ignored they'd be showing up our democracy for the sham that it is. They'd be telling us that we are not governed, but ruled. And everybody, no matter how they voted in a relatively trivial referendum, should revolt against that.
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  26. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    Coach is right.

    This has the potential to be about much, much more than some poxy referendum. Parliament decided, overwhelmingly, that they are ill equipped or unwilling to make a decision and handed that decision to us. If our will is thwarted we would be entering into an era of politics more toxic than any other in a very long time. Throughout, this referendum has been about democracy and if the result is ignored they'd be showing up our democracy for the sham that it is. They'd be telling us that we are not governed, but ruled. And everybody, no matter how they voted in a relatively trivial referendum, should revolt against that.
    You are such a drama queen, when is the last time you posted about anything else in this forum? This is quite simply called obsession.
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  27. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dookar View Post
    Coach is right.

    This has the potential to be about much, much more than some poxy referendum. Parliament decided, overwhelmingly, that they are ill equipped or unwilling to make a decision and handed that decision to us. If our will is thwarted we would be entering into an era of politics more toxic than any other in a very long time. Throughout, this referendum has been about democracy and if the result is ignored they'd be showing up our democracy for the sham that it is. They'd be telling us that we are not governed, but ruled. And everybody, no matter how they voted in a relatively trivial referendum, should revolt against that.
    Slippery road to ignore a vote. Bad precedent.
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  28. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    I understand. When people tell you the truth and you don't enjoy hearing it then it's much easier to say 'la,la,la,la,la' and wish it to go away. The reason you cannot respond is you're incapable of returning with a salient counter argument.

    The facts are clear the EU was sold as collaborative, co-operative single market. However when you create a large single market then you create a governance, regulation and you create a central banking system for it and now the Troika own the EU.

    Yanis Varoufakis the Greek finance minister for a brief time met with the Troika and said they run Europe. They treat political representatives like garbage. We said Wolfgang Schäuble actually said this 'we cannot let democracy get in the way of economic policy' this is straight from the horses mouth.

    This single union was created not to benefit each member but control it. That's why a single currency was created to control the money supply, that's why they're pushing for powers to be able to veto national budgets. That's why they take massive amounts of money from the more economically powerful members and they don't redistribute to other nations they take significant sums for themselves, increase debts in every nation and they distribute with strict guidelines to benefit the few.

    It is an amalgamation of very old scams. No if you wish to intelligently counter that feel free. I don't know how you think this is me being a troll I'm providing my opinions on a political system. Just because you don't like these opinions that's your bad luck.
    This is actually quite funny, this is the man that said that racists and anti-racists are the same thing for him, that goes out of his way to try to be "understanding"with the reasons of that fascist murderer that killed the labour MP or the teorrist that that killed more 80 people in France, but now is getting upset at the possibility (in his twisted mind only) that Brexit may not happen?

    You just couldn't make this up. You are seriously screwed up.
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    With all the crap coming out of europe, it must be tempting to delay the article triggering indefinitely to troll them back!

    And what's with the EU saying 'all-4-freedoms apply and you cannot have a better deal than is now'; i mean - are they saying freedom of movement is a negative? Kind of goes against their own mantra - surely opting out of that freedom should, by their reckoning, just affect us negatively compared to them?
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  30. #30  
    WirralRiddler is online now These posts brought to you by Dr Dre & Only Fools & Horses appreciation society
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    You are such a drama queen, when is the last time you posted about anything else in this forum? This is quite simply called obsession.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alon1 View Post
    This is actually quite funny, this is the man that said that racists and anti-racists are the same thing for him, that goes out of his way to try to be "understanding"with the reasons of that fascist murderer that killed the labour MP or the teorrist that that killed more 80 people in France, but now is getting upset at the possibility (in his twisted mind only) that Brexit may not happen?

    You just couldn't make this up. You are seriously screwed up.
    I seriously doubt either care too much about what you think of them, and rightly so too. The word pompous sums you up mate, to a tee.
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