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Thread: Emre Can has regressed, badly!

  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snippes View Post
    Its funny where people go to channel their frustrations.

    Emre Can is like the least of my worries at this point. So many obsessing over how he doesn't fit our style of play when for 6 years, we've tolerated, excused, even half worshipped the pointless existence of more senior midfielders like our fearless leader, his Captain Amazing. I mean, honestly...we have stunk plenty of times when Can was not on the team. Why we pick on whether he released the ball a nano second slower than we like when we have other people needlessly swinging the ball from right to left all day long like a bleepin' pendulum, is beyond me. It's gotten to the point where we now glorify "recycling the football" as if this is some precious skill we should hold in high regard. Whatever, give me someone who loses the ball because he's actually trying to do make something happen.

    Not suggesting Can hasn't had a poor season but to make him remotely a focus area of our current problems is such a waste of time.
    This is a rubbish response.

    What are you trying to say?
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  2. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    Think most in the thread are talking guff, but he's been really poor this year
    To put it into context, I'd say he's only had 3/4 good months in a red shirt, that was during our run in the Europa league.

    It's understandable as to why people say he's not good enough or has regressed.
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    He's poor it's no coincidence since he's come into this team we've struggled, our fast fluid football is all but gone with Can in the team.
    He's receives the ball with his back to the goal which only means he can pass the ball backwards, with that knock on effect our forwards who've made space have be closed down.
    Yes Lovern could and should have dealt with that first goal better but what the **** was Can doing originally? He was rooted to the spot didn't do anything meaning Lovern had to react quickly to head out for a corner.

    He's a massive problem for us, one of the most important but there are others too.
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBarnes79 View Post
    This is a rubbish response.

    What are you trying to say?
    Can is bad.

    But our main issue is Hendo?

    I think that's why he's saying.
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    Not just this year, LD .. after seeing him play over 70 games for the club, I still cannot see what his best position is or where his strengths lie, but I sure can tell you a lot of negatives about him. He just does not add any value to our midfield. He is not a particularly good defensive player, nor an effective attacking one. In my view, he is just not good enough to be playing at this level, and he never will be.
    Out of those 70 games, did you miss last season when he was playing in the holding position and was easily one of our more influential better players the last half of last season? You saw how we missed him when he went down injured and then the effect he had when he came back. This is the first time in his career you could fairly attribute a bad season to him and it's not like it isn't understandable. Worst thing for him was missing out the build up and then start to the season...he's never quite gotten on track consistently. But then again, he's only 23 and already you hear people like the guys on the Anfield Wrap openly talking this week about how Can is 23 and we can already tell he isn't going to have a great career.

    Mind you, this is the same crew who when Henderson was 23 were coming up with 7000 creative excuses for why Hendo just needed time, was still growing, was still learning various positions, was still trying to get out of under Stevie's shadow. Hendo is 26, and up until Can got injured earlier this season, no one here could tell you what Hendo's best position was - plus he was a Godawful footballer. Anyone who remembers the Burnley game and the time in and around those games will remember what a complete mess of a player Henderson was. But yet the same people who jump on Can's back now saying he doesn't have a position - what were you saying about Hendo then? You could get whiplash trying to keep up with the double talk on some of these players.
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  6. #36  
    spider-neil is online now Academy prospect
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    He should be no where near the team when you are looking to open up a stubborn defense at home. You need the ball to be zipped along at lighting pace and that just isn't in his locker.
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  7. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBarnes79 View Post
    This is a rubbish response.

    What are you trying to say?
    Did I stutter?
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider-neil View Post
    He should be no where near the team when you are looking to open up a stubborn defense at home. You need the ball to be zipped along at lighting pace and that just isn't in his locker.
    Exactly he's mentally and physically slow with and without the ball.

    Italian league is where he needs to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYscouser View Post
    He has not regressed. This has always been his level, it's just he's young so everyone assumed he would keep improving which he has not.
    That transfer window was truly club-destroying. The amazing thing is that so many who were responsible are still in a job.

    Lallana the only player who has actually had a positive impact (and that took 2 years)

    The rest cost 100m:
    Lovren
    Markovic
    Ballotelli
    Moreno
    Can
    Origi
    Lambert

    I have some hope for Origi, but the less said about the rest, the better
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  10. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snippes View Post
    Out of those 70 games, did you miss last season when he was playing in the holding position and was easily one of our more influential better players the last half of last season? You saw how we missed him when he went down injured and then the effect he had when he came back. This is the first time in his career you could fairly attribute a bad season to him and it's not like it isn't understandable. Worst thing for him was missing out the build up and then start to the season...he's never quite gotten on track consistently. But then again, he's only 23 and already you hear people like the guys on the Anfield Wrap openly talking this week about how Can is 23 and we can already tell he isn't going to have a great career.

    Mind you, this is the same crew who when Henderson was 23 were coming up with 7000 creative excuses for why Hendo just needed time, was still growing, was still learning various positions, was still trying to get out of under Stevie's shadow. Hendo is 26, and up until Can got injured earlier this season, no one here could tell you what Hendo's best position was - plus he was a Godawful footballer. Anyone who remembers the Burnley game and the time in and around those games will remember what a complete mess of a player Henderson was. But yet the same people who jump on Can's back now saying he doesn't have a position - what were you saying about Hendo then? You could get whiplash trying to keep up with the double talk on some of these players.
    He had a good 3 or so months last season towards the end, nothing spectacular. That's the only time he's been good here.

    Hendo has been getting torn apart for an absolute eternity, and still does until this day.

    Bringing up the Burnley game where Hendo played a position for the second time in his career makes you look extremely foolish. He's not the same player he was back in August in that role.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipsomniax13 View Post
    That transfer window was truly club-destroying. The amazing thing is that so many who were responsible are still in a job.

    Lallana the only player who has actually had a positive impact (and that took 2 years)

    The rest cost 100m:
    Lovren
    Markovic
    Ballotelli
    Moreno
    Can
    Origi
    Lambert

    I have some hope for Origi, but the less said about the rest, the better
    Markovic, Mario, Moreno, Lambert were the true failings.

    Lovren has been up and down.

    Can and Origi are still young so you don't know which way they'll go.

    For what we needed at the time it was an awful window.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaze31 View Post
    Exactly he's mentally and physically slow with and without the ball.

    Italian league is where he needs to be.
    You need players like Can but in away games where you have to battle for the ball also and against top 6 opposition when there might be long periods when you are under the cosh. There is no point to him against dross.
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  13. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer-LFC View Post
    I would say that over the last month he's been our worst player.

    So yeah he's a pretty big problem at the moment.
    You are a peach if you think the last month that Emre Can has been the biggest problem at this club, LOL.

    Is Can responsible for the joke of protection our terrible back 4 is getting at the moment? Is the near clownish CB defending we have seen every time Matip isn't on the pitch, a Can problem? Is Can the guy unable to win a single battle in wide positions especially since Mane left? Is Can responsible for the fact that we all of a sudden cannot break down even the worst teams in football and we've gone from being a goal machine to almost sheer bluntness?

    You really have to bored to dig that deep to make Can the biggest problem we have at the moment. I shouldn't even have justified that comment with a response. You are always the first person on here bitching about signings - show me where there has been a wave of crusading for a new CM because Can is killing us at the moment. Meanwhile, everyone has known for weeks that losing Coutinho to injury and then knowing Mane would be gone, is/was/should have been a massive point of emphasis this January and we didn't address it and subsequently, our attack has pretty much died with it. All of which make this obsession with Can laughable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    He carried us At times last year when everyone else was garbage for spells.
    This year he's been crap
    Dont get me wrong i've been a massive fan mate but he's letting us and himself down this year. I just don't want to see him in our midfield again unless it's in an attacking role. So much ability to beat players and it's wasted with him sitting trying to look like the classy controlled midfielder that he isn't.
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    Current best Midfield 3 is Wjnaldum - Hendo - Lallana, for the time being i would suggest playing Ojo on the right while Mane away, as Lallana, Sturridge, Origi or Firmino cannot play there.
    Win Draw Or Lose, YNWA
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider-neil View Post
    You need players like Can but in away games where you have to battle for the ball also and against top 6 opposition when there might be long periods when you are under the cosh. There is no point to him against dross.
    Honestly you don't need him at all.

    Premier league is too quick for him, he'll do extremely well in Italy suit him down to the ground that league.
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  17. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Monk- View Post
    He had a good 3 or so months last season towards the end, nothing spectacular. That's the only time he's been good here.

    Hendo has been getting torn apart for an absolute eternity, and still does until this day.

    Bringing up the Burnley game where Hendo played a position for the second time in his career makes you look extremely foolish. He's not the same player he was back in August in that role.
    Deliriously funny revisionist history. Please go back and read this forum last season when we lost Can and tell me he wasn't anything important. You just can't selectively pick and chose the reality you want to remember....Can was by far our best holding midfielder last season during an important part of the season. Hendo wasn't able to play that position and Klopp didn't trust anyone else to play it.

    Regarding Henderson, what have I said that is foolish? I specifically pointed out that trashing Can for being poor right now and having no position is stupid beyond words when you consider just a few months ago, Henderson, who is 3/4 years older than Can, was in an even worse place in August. He was terrible at every position, including that holding position and then over time managed to improve so discounting Can when we have seen how an older, less talented player has improved given time and patience, is idiotic. What person with a brain would argue that point? I just gave you an example for why it is moronic to just give up on Can because he has had one bad season while worshiping the ground that Hendo walks on even when he himself as basically had one decent season in 6. Rather than understanding the point am making, you immediately default to being so defensive over what you perceive as a slight over your precious boy.
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  18. #48  
    NY Mike is online now First team regular
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    Can was bad today. Henderson and Wijnaldum were no better. Pointless picking out Can for criticism. They were all bad.
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    I know people disagree with me on this, but Can is not a No.8. He's a No.6.

    Emre's best games for us have come in the holding position. He himself has said that it's his favoured role, too. http://www.squawka.com/news/i-feel-a...mre-can/648187

    The issue for Can is his lack of mobility and pace, both in and out of possession.

    Say what you want about Henderson's ability on the ball, but he covers an enormous amount of ground and stops a lot of opposition counters/attacks in pretty much every game. When our full backs are caught up the pitch, Jordan has the awareness and energy to fill the space throughout the 90 minutes. This is something Emre is not able to do (to the same level).

    If Klopp does not view Can as a holding midfielder (which seems to be the case) I do have doubts over his long and perhaps even short term career at our club. Jurgen wants his players to 'give and go' and move the ball quickly, which is something that Emre struggles with.

    It should also be pointed out that Can only has 18 months left on his contract. There were apparently talks in November between the club and his representative(s) but nothing has happened as of yet. Is that something we should be keeping an eye on?
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  20. #50  
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlfitz07 View Post
    Very average player, dont see what the manager sees in him, so slow and sloppy with the ball a lot of the time.
    He just doesn't have the brain for what we need out of him - he's an OK player at best. Perhaps Klopp is waiting to find a really good replacement - surely he knows Can isn't up to the mark? He has big shoes to fill in that position!
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  21. #51  
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Mike View Post
    Can was bad today. Henderson and Wijnaldum were no better. Pointless picking out Can for criticism. They were all bad.
    True Can and Hendo had stinkers.

    I know Klopp has said be patient on the ball...but making boring passing triangles while the opposition gets their banks of four into place...isn't what he meant.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    True Can and Hendo had stinkers.

    I know Klopp has said be patient on the ball...but making boring passing triangles while the opposition gets their banks of four into place...isn't what he meant.
    Exactly.

    It's no coincidence our play from start of season has changed completely.

    Quick ball has gone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snippes View Post
    Deliriously funny revisionist history. Please go back and read this forum last season when we lost Can and tell me he wasn't anything important. You just can't selectively pick and chose the reality you want to remember....Can was by far our best holding midfielder last season during an important part of the season. Hendo wasn't able to play that position and Klopp didn't trust anyone else to play it.

    Regarding Henderson, what have I said that is foolish? I specifically pointed out that trashing Can for being poor right now and having no position is stupid beyond words when you consider just a few months ago, Henderson, who is 3/4 years older than Can, was in an even worse place in August. He was terrible at every position, including that holding position and then over time managed to improve so discounting Can when we have seen how an older, less talented player has improved given time and patience, is idiotic. What person with a brain would argue that point? I just gave you an example for why it is moronic to just give up on Can because he has had one bad season while worshiping the ground that Hendo walks on even when he himself as basically had one decent season in 6. Rather than understanding the point am making, you immediately default to being so defensive over what you perceive as a slight over your precious boy.
    Eh? Can was very good from February onwards, but Lallana, Coutinho, Origi and Firmino were playing at the same/higher level too. What's the issue?

    And this season Klopp refuses to play Can in that deep role and prefers the better performing Hendo there, what does that tell you?

    Hendo had a poor 2/3 games in August, not an entire poor season as Can has had.

    The reason why anyone would give up on Can is because he doesn't fit our system well, he's not physically or mentally quick enough to play the system we want to play. Too many touches, too much needless running with the ball when options are available, it's why Sturridge doesn't get a look in either.

    This isn't personal on Can, he just doesn't fit.
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  24. #54  
    NY Mike is online now First team regular
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    Midfield continues to be a problem for the club.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Mike View Post
    Midfield continues to be a problem for the club.
    Playing Gini and Can in the same game is the issue.
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  26. #56  
    NY Mike is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Monk- View Post
    Playing Gini and Can in the same game is the issue.
    The data show that when one of the two is in MF, we do well. When both play, we don't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Monk- View Post
    Eh? Can was very good from February onwards, but Lallana, Coutinho, Origi and Firmino were playing at the same/higher level too. What's the issue?

    And this season Klopp refuses to play Can in that deep role and prefers the better performing Hendo there, what does that tell you?

    Hendo had a poor 2/3 games in August, not an entire poor season as Can has had.

    The reason why anyone would give up on Can is because he doesn't fit our system well, he's not physically or mentally quick enough to play the system we want to play. Too many touches, too much needless running with the ball when options are available, it's why Sturridge doesn't get a look in either.

    This isn't personal on Can, he just doesn't fit.
    Halilullah
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  28. #58  
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Monk- View Post
    Eh? Can was very good from February onwards, but Lallana, Coutinho, Origi and Firmino were playing at the same/higher level too. What's the issue?

    And this season Klopp refuses to play Can in that deep role and prefers the better performing Hendo there, what does that tell you?

    Hendo had a poor 2/3 games in August, not an entire poor season as Can has had.

    The reason why anyone would give up on Can is because he doesn't fit our system well, he's not physically or mentally quick enough to play the system we want to play. Too many touches, too much needless running with the ball when options are available, it's why Sturridge doesn't get a look in either.

    This isn't personal on Can, he just doesn't fit.
    There were plenty of people here who didn't know where Firmino fit for a LONG time after he got here.
    There are plenty of people who would have called you insane 14 months ago if you would have suggested Lallana would be our best presser and balling winning midfielders at this club.
    Virtually everyone on earth thought Klopp was insane going into a season with Milner at LB.
    Simon Mignolet was a dead man walking going into this summer.
    Up until about a month ago, most people here couldn't figure out why we bought Gini Wijnaldum - 90% of the posts on him had differing variations of "what is the point of Gini" to them.

    If you want to go ahead and make grand proclamations about giving up on a very talented and highly rated 23 year old German International because he is having an off season that started and set up very badly for him from the start, be my guest. But you will only have yourself to blame when you eventually look like a complete dolt because you decided you wanted to just give up on a player like that working under Klopp. But don't worry....you won't be alone feeling right stupid about it all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Mike View Post
    The data show that when one of the two is in MF, we do well. When both play, we don't.
    Yeah, it's one or the other for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewdleyfan View Post
    Yeah, it's one or the other for me.
    Especially against literally the worst team in the league before the game.
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