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Thread: Emre Can has regressed, badly!

  1. #1291  
    KeepTheFightForJustice is offline Academy prospect
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    Thought he was excellent yesterday.

    Certainly suits that role better than where he was before.
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  2. #1292  
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    He was getting up to speed much faster as well, running wise.
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    Simple really, don't move him from that DM position until he gets injured (hopefully not for a long time), lets go with this, Lallana and Gini.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Going CouCou View Post
    Simple really, don't move him from that DM position until he gets injured (hopefully not for a long time), lets go with this, Lallana and Gini.
    Yes
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  5. #1295  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Going CouCou View Post
    Simple really, don't move him from that DM position until he gets injured (hopefully not for a long time), lets go with this, Lallana and Gini.
    He's had one decent game and one excellent game in a row. It's shouldn't be automatic that the shirt is his. Henderson has had some excellent games too and has been more consistent this season.

    I'm not saying he should be dropped immediately for the next game. But two games don't make it a foregone conclusion either.
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  6. #1296  
    Fowi is online now Hall of Fame Resident and Top Poster Who Shook The Boards
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    People are going overboard. Can's problem has never been busting a gut like a bull againt big teams. His problem is settling down and playing football, which is what you must do in that role and what he didn't do vs. Burnley.

    All this debate about Can this, Henderson that and who should play is irrelevant. None of them are good enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fowi View Post
    People are going overboard. Can's problem has never been busting a gut like a bull againt big teams. His problem is settling down and playing football, which is what you must do in that role and what he didn't do vs. Burnley.

    All this debate about Can this, Henderson that and who should play is irrelevant. None of them are good enough.
    Players of the ilk of Ray Parlour and Graeme Le Saux have league title medals as virtual first choice players for their teams. Who's to say Can and Hendo aren't good enough? Not every player in a title winning team has to be top top class.

    ... we just need one or two to start us off these days 😂
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  8. #1298  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scousechrisj View Post
    Players of the ilk of Ray Parlour and Graeme Le Saux have league title medals as virtual first choice players for their teams. Who's to say Can and Hendo aren't good enough? Not every player in a title winning team has to be top top class.

    ... we just need one or two to start us off these days ��
    Because the position those two play are the heart of the team. Le Saux was a very fine left back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fowi View Post
    Because the position those two play are the heart of the team. Le Saux was a very fine left back.
    With a better CB partner for Matip and and keeper behind, I'd be ok with either of them at DM.

    Le Saux, was decent - far from class. At the heart of the team - David Batty, Drinkwater, Butt, Edu... all league winning CMs far from top class.

    I am being slightly pedantic. But not every player does have to be at the top of the game to be a winning team.
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  10. #1300  
    FIOS is online now First team regular
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    So if Can, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana, are all good enough for us, where do we go from here?

    What is the plan in the summer? We're going to buy a player better than all those but not play him? Or we'll buy a player to act as cover for them?
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  11. #1301  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIOS View Post
    So if Can, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana, are all good enough for us, where do we go from here?

    What is the plan in the summer? We're going to buy a player better than all those but not play him? Or we'll buy a player to act as cover for them?
    Buy a new DM, Can is cover/competition for him...Henderson and Gini can compete for the headless chicken role.

    After that, it depends who we buy attacking wise, which formation we play and whether Phil is still here.
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  12. #1302  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Buy a new DM, Can is cover/competition for him...Henderson and Gini can compete for the headless chicken role.

    After that, it depends who we buy attacking wise, which formation we play and whether Phil is still here.
    So then who is out the side if we buy this new defensive midfielder?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIOS View Post
    So then who is out the side if we buy this new defensive midfielder?
    Surely its about form, who deserves to be in the side based on form at that point in time and if we're in a few comps it'll change anyway with rotation.

    Why does the manager or anyone have to nail their colours to the mast and a pick player now, genuine question like?
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  14. #1304  
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Surely its about form, who deserves to be in the side based on form at that point in time and if we're in a few comps it'll change anyway with rotation.

    Why does the manager or anyone have to nail their colours to the mast and a pick player now, genuine question like?
    Because you don't sign a new player in the summer, for what I assume will be tens of millions of pounds, without a plan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIOS View Post
    Because you don't sign a new player in the summer, for what I assume will be tens of millions of pounds, without a plan.
    The plan would be surely to strengthen the squad with real quality, so that quality would take care of itself in terms of options, bearing in mind we're paper thin in that regard

    I'm not personally remotely convinced by Can after one good showing, long over due that performance as improved as it was.
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  16. #1306  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIOS View Post
    So then who is out the side if we buy this new defensive midfielder?
    Can and one of Henderson or Gini miss out.

    Assuming we still play 4-3-3.
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  17. #1307  
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    The plan would be surely to strengthen the squad with real quality, so that quality would take care of itself in terms of options, bearing in mind we're paper thin in that regard
    That isn't really a plan. Thats pretty much saying we'll sign a player and then it will sort itself out when we need someone to play.
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  18. #1308  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewdleyfan View Post
    He was far far better against Man City. Against Leicester City he had an average game at best, and was caught out defensively on far too many occasions. Also, he was better after the break, when moved to the left of a back three.

    Do you seriously think Emre was better at Leicester City than yesterday?
    I thought he was good in both games but more effective vs Leicester (the stats back me up here) he seemed to be more involved vs Leicester (he attempted and completed more passes) Defensively I also though he was better vs Leicester (he made way more tackles and won more headers) He also seemed more effective in the oppositions half getting his assist as well. He was good vs City but the whole team were good
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearWithMe View Post
    I thought he was good in both games but more effective vs Leicester (the stats back me up here) he seemed to be more involved vs Leicester (he attempted and completed more passes) Defensively I also though he was better vs Leicester (he made way more tackles and won more headers) He also seemed more effective in the oppositions half getting his assist as well. He was good vs City but the whole team were good
    I didn't think he was very good against Leicester. He makes a good run for the goal but that's it really. The whole team were poor of course.

    Against Arsenal he was good, but then should have been sent off for a silly tackle while on a booking.

    Burnley he was poor first half and better second half and scores a great goal.

    Man City he was excellent.

    So what he has shown me recently is that he is still wildly inconsistent and plays better against big teams which we already knew. I've been critical of him but it's good to see these kinds of performances against Arsenal and City but these are the performances he needs to be doing in the smaller games as well.
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  20. #1310  
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Chris- View Post
    I didn't think he was very good against Leicester. He makes a good run for the goal but that's it really. The whole team were poor of course.

    Against Arsenal he was good, but then should have been sent off for a silly tackle while on a booking.

    Burnley he was poor first half and better second half and scores a great goal.

    Man City he was excellent.

    So what he has shown me recently is that he is still wildly inconsistent and plays better against big teams which we already knew. I've been critical of him but it's good to see these kinds of performances against Arsenal and City but these are the performances he needs to be doing in the smaller games as well.
    But imo he was better vs Leicester than vs City and stats back me up as well. He was on the ball far more, completed more passes, made more tackles, won more headers, made more passes in the final third and got an assist. He was good vs City as well but wasn't in the game as much.
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    It'll be interesting to see what Klopp does to our midfield this summer, in terms of incomings and outgoings.

    I think Jurgen is a big fan of Gini, Henderson and Lallana. But our unwillingness to match Emre's wage demands suggests that Jurgen is not entirely convinced with him (as a 'starter' anyway). However, if Can puts in 'Man City like' performances on a consistent basis until the end of the season, things might change.

    If Emre does sign a new contract, I can't see us bringing in a new No.6, especially if Jurgen persists with using Henderson as a DM.

    In CM, our options are Wijnaldum, Lallana and Grujic. Milner is another option of course, especially if we bring in a new first choice LB. Adam has just been given a new long term contract and Klopp brought Gini to the club. As I said earlier, they're two players Jurgen clearly rates very highly.

    I do want to see another CM brought in though, as competition for Wijnaldum's spot in particular

    I've seen some suggest that we should move Henderson into CM again (to compete with Gini) and sign a new first choice DM, with Can acting as back up. That's another valid option too, I guess.

    A few posters think we should completely overhaul this area of the pitch, but I just can't see that happening. Even if Stewart and Lucas leave the club, the only way I can see us signing two MF's (1 DM and 1 CM) is if Emre joins them through the exit door. I think it's pretty much 50/50 at the moment, as to whether Can does leave (depending on the offers he receives at the end of the season, whether he loses his spot to Henderson and if we match his wage demands).

    I think it's clear that we need a new LB, CB, WF and CF. I think it's less obvious as to what Klopp will do with our midfield in the summer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearWithMe View Post
    But imo he was better vs Leicester than vs City and stats back me up as well. He was on the ball far more, completed more passes, made more tackles, won more headers, made more passes in the final third and got an assist. He was good vs City as well but wasn't in the game as much.
    He was better in the second half against Leicester, when moved to the left of a back three. That's where his assist came from, too (and I'm guessing a large amount of his tackles and headers).

    His performance against City was dominant, in my opinion. Against Leicester, especially in that first half, he was weak defensively.
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  23. #1313  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewdleyfan View Post
    He was better in the second half against Leicester, when moved to the left of a back three. That's where his assist came from, too (and I'm guessing a large amount of his tackles and headers).

    His performance against City was dominant, in my opinion. Against Leicester, especially in that first half, he was weak defensively.
    I agree...he was constantly out of position v Leicester in the first half...the game passed him by until Leicester scored their 3rd and stopped going forward as much.
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  24. #1314  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewdleyfan View Post
    He was better in the second half against Leicester, when moved to the left of a back three. That's where his assist came from, too (and I'm guessing a large amount of his tackles and headers).

    His performance against City was dominant, in my opinion. Against Leicester, especially in that first half, he was weak defensively.
    But again he completed nearly double the amount of passes in the final 3rd vs Leicester than he did vs City. Vs Leicter I noticed one ball bounce over his head and I said to myself that incident alone will cause our fans to say he was crap, and it was. Its a subconscious thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BearWithMe View Post
    But again he completed nearly double the amount of passes in the final 3rd vs Leicester than he did vs City. Vs Leicter I noticed one ball bounce over his head and I said to myself that incident alone will cause our fans to say he was crap, and it was. Its a subconscious thing.
    Haha, I pointed that out at the time. It actually happened twice within the space of a couple of minutes. Emre over committed himself, didn't win the ball and Leicester countered on us. Positionally he was all over the place in that first half and he made some poor decisions too.

    In the second 45, when moved to the LCB position, he was a threat when carrying the ball out from defence. As seen for the Coutinho goal. Still, he was mugged by Mahrez really easily and at fault for their third goal, too.

    His performance against City, in my opinion, was excellent. He was far more disciplined (defensively) and alongside Gini, won the midfield battle.

    I respect your opinion though, but I think you're pretty much alone in thinking he was superior against Leicester City.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIOS View Post
    So if Can, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Lallana, are all good enough for us, where do we go from here?

    What is the plan in the summer? We're going to buy a player better than all those but not play him? Or we'll buy a player to act as cover for them?
    Just because are good enough for us, that doesn't mean we can't do better. That doesn't demean their capabilities if we get better players in. We need a good squad.
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  27. #1317  
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    Quote Originally Posted by scousechrisj View Post
    Just because are good enough for us, that doesn't mean we can't do better. That doesn't demean their capabilities if we get better players in. We need a good squad.
    Right but someone has to miss out? Unless you propose we sign someone who isn't going to start regularly.

    There has to be a preferred starting two or three in midfield. There has to be a plan for how your midfield sets up, what you want them to do and how you want them (and by extension the team) to play.

    For example, if we had Kante then there is no scenario where I think "we don't need Kante in the side today". Unless of course it's a game you don't really care about winning.
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    Can can do 99 things right in a game but the fans who want him out will Focus on the one thing. He hasn't been great this season I must admit, and to be fair to him he even admitted himself on camera that he was not having the best of moments. At least he is not in denial or hiding. Last couple of games he has defo improved. Remember he is younger than Kevin Stewart. I agree he needs to improve but if he has that willingness to sort it out then I am all for it.
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  29. #1319  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIOS View Post
    That isn't really a plan. Thats pretty much saying we'll sign a player and then it will sort itself out when we need someone to play.
    No it's just having a squad, the quality should naturally take care of itself which is a plan for most top teams.

    Henderson or Can, Gini, if they are all upgraded on in the true sense lose their spots.

    Klopp seems to rate Lallana highly indeed so doubt he will lose a spot
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIOS View Post
    Right but someone has to miss out? Unless you propose we sign someone who isn't going to start regularly.

    There has to be a preferred starting two or three in midfield. There has to be a plan for how your midfield sets up, what you want them to do and how you want them (and by extension the team) to play.

    For example, if we had Kante then there is no scenario where I think "we don't need Kante in the side today". Unless of course it's a game you don't really care about winning.
    No, of course there has to be a preferred starting 2/3 - but again, that doesn't mean the squad players are not good enough.

    If we could get Kante, would Can/Henderson be on the bench, hell yes... though players like him who are at the top of the game in their respective positions are few and far between (sadly, especially to come and play for us right now).

    If we had Dele Alli for example, I think there would be games we would use him, and others we would use a Lallana or a Coutinho.

    I would actually much rather have two 8/10 players than one 10/10 player for each position (the obvious Messis, Ronaldos, Suarez' aside), due to injuries and our reliance upon 1/2 players for the last ten years.
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