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Thread: Liverpool FC: Still A Work-in-progress

  1. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by geo1122 View Post
    I believe his boyhood dream is to play for Real. He's the quality of striker that would realistically only go to the perceived Elite clubs of the modern game.

    I'll take a punt, and say he'll be at Real, Barcelona, Bayern, City, Chelsea, or United. I would be shocked, should he be plying his trade elsewhere when he makes his move.
    Yea
    It would be good if we signed him, but it just not how we roll, is it ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by prayerforliverpool View Post
    Sell sturridge and throw the kitchen sink at getting at the dortmund striker cant spell his name hed ideally suited to klopp tactics would be clubs record signing
    Aubameyang - excellent choice if we can pull it off. As an alternative, we need to look at Lacazette or Morata. If we add Berardi or Brandt as a WF, a proper LB (Hector is my choice), a quick thinking play-maker with a better passing range (ala Dahoud) and replace Sakho (if we can convince Laporte it would be great!), we will have a real team for 2017/18 and beyond.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    Yea
    It would be good if we signed him, but it just not how we roll, is it ?
    I was talking about this the other day; how do you become an elite club in the modern game? Or a chronic winner?

    Some look to Leicester as a point of reference that money is not needed to be a winner, but the reality is that with sustained success money is needed... look at Leicester now.

    The first way for sustained success, from a stand point of very little success, is the influx of large amounts of money, changing both your wage and transfer structure, to essentially buy a formidable team, and continue in that manner.

    And the second one is where I believe ourselves, Tottenham, and Arsenal sit, with varying degrees of success. You need the right balance of youth coming to prominence, and you need to be "lucky" in the transfer market, with more hits than misses. If you get it right though, you will eventually have to jump into the first way of success, i.e spending and large wages, in order to continually sustain it.

    Someone of Aubameyang's readymade quality is not where we are at as a club, when it comes to transfers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Campos View Post
    So after a less than inspiring January, I think it's appropriate to point out that we are still a work in progress. I've made a few points below based on our full squad, come the summer when players return from loans.

    The Squad

    Bold = Personal strongest option
    Normal = Squad option
    Italic = Youth/U-23 squad

    Red = players that I expect to go (potentially on loan)
    Orange = players who could quite easily be let go (who would then need replacing)
    Blue = players I expect to go who are currently on loan/exiled


    Karius
    Ward / Bogdan / Mignolet / Manninger
    Firth / Fulton


    Clyne--Matip--Lovren--NEW LB
    Alexander-Arnold (U-21)--Flanagan--Wisdom--Gomez (U-21)--Sakho--Klavan--Milner--Moreno
    Randall--Williams--Brewitt--Jones--Hart

    Henderson
    NEW CM--Stewart--Lucas
    Allan--Chirivella

    Wijnaldum--Lallana
    Grujic--Can
    Brannagan--Ejaria

    Mane------------------Coutinho
    NEW WF--Woodburn (U-21)--Markovic--Ojo (U-21)--NEW WF
    Kent---------------------Wilson

    Firmino
    Sturridge--Origi--Ings
    Awoniyi--Dunn


    A few things to note:

    1. The vast majority of players that I expect to leave are either on loan, exiled from the club or in the youth ranks.

    The exceptions being that we have 4 strikers fighting for one striking position and only two senior players capable of playing on the wings.

    This clearly shows the lack of depth in the squad that we currently have available, or, like in the case of the attack, strength in the wrong places. A minimum of one new natural wide attacker in place of the forwards would help address such an issue and give us better balance.

    2. For the most part, any new signings should be looking to at least be of comparable quality to those players in the starting 11. The players highlighted to be leaving who are in the current squad are, it's fair to say, of quite a bit lower quality than those in the first 11. You get those squad changes right and all of a sudden the balance is much better and we become less reliant on the first 11.

    3. The lack of even outgoing cover in wide positions. This has meant that with both of these natural players being injured/absent, we've had to completely shift our team around in order to put out a senior 11 (not under-21). Injuries to Clyne, Matip and Henderson have meant that the only cover we've had were also under-21 or a player who is a fair drop in level. One of these injuries may be possible to deal with. Maybe two. All 5 in roughly the same period? It's going to have a massive effect, even when they're returning and finding their feet again.

    Summary

    Most people wouldn't have expected a title challenge, this season. The squad was assembled with the risky strategy of using youth players as cover in the hope that one or two coming in to cover injuries wouldn't make a huge difference. 4-5 have happened and we've been derailed.

    The alternatives were keeping the likes of Benteke and Balotelli or buying players in the knowledge that we had absolutely no European football - our only real outfield signings were Mane and Wijnaldum, both from England, one from a relegated side and one personally tracked by Klopp for years.

    Other signings were unlikely to make a huge impact and the opportunity to blood young players may have been worth the offset in signing mediocre ones.

    We're still a work in progress and will take time to get right.

    A settled squad with a bit of rest and recuperation can still hit the heights of the first half of the season and lay a solid foundation for a European campaign next year.
    Players YOU EXPECT to go to be exiled or go out on loan?. Guys I think we have yet another that think football management is the same as it is on a computer game.

    I also reckon you've opened up your crystal ball and your computer game and listed quite a number of transfer targets?

    Sorry to disappoint you, this is REAL LIFE, it doesn't work like that. Liverpool have a MANAGER that makes such decisions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coutinhosmagicfeet View Post
    Players YOU EXPECT to go to be exiled or go out on loan?. Guys I think we have yet another that think football management is the same as it is on a computer game.

    I also reckon you've opened up your crystal ball and your computer game and listed quite a number of transfer targets?

    Sorry to disappoint you, this is REAL LIFE, it doesn't work like that. Liverpool have a MANAGER that makes such decisions.
    I'd be interested to hear which players from that list you expect to be here next season.

    Jon Flanagan? Can't get a game for Burnley after 2 seasons injured?
    Andre Wisdom? Not played for us for 3 seasons?
    Manninger? One year contract and barely made the bench?
    Sakho? Told to find himself a permanent club quite openly?
    Lucas? Stewart? Sturridge? Ings?

    These aren't all players that I think can't work here. I like Wisdom. I like Sakho. These are players who I don't think, for one reason or another stand much chance of being here next season, and if they are, they won't be very close to the team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Campos View Post
    I'd be interested to hear which players from that list you expect to be here next season.

    Jon Flanagan? Can't get a game for Burnley after 2 seasons injured?
    Andre Wisdom? Not played for us for 3 seasons?
    Manninger? One year contract and barely made the bench?
    Sakho? Told to find himself a permanent club quite openly?
    Lucas? Stewart? Sturridge? Ings?

    These aren't all players that I think can't work here. I like Wisdom. I like Sakho. These are players who I don't think, for one reason or another stand much chance of being here next season, and if they are, they won't be very close to the team.
    Klopp has stated he sees Stewart as the perfect squad player I believe and would rather keep hold of him. I would rather we kept hold of Sturridge but it's looking unlikely as he surely isn't happy playing second (or even third) fiddle and Klopp has made it clear he isn't the kind of striker he wants. And I think it's a bit harsh writing off Ings at this point, he's done well in the limited games he's had IMO and would be worth more to us than we'd get for him at this stage after such a long lay off. The rest I agree can go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    Klopp has stated he sees Stewart as the perfect squad player I believe and would rather keep hold of him. I would rather we kept hold of Sturridge but it's looking unlikely as he surely isn't happy playing second (or even third) fiddle and Klopp has made it clear he isn't the kind of striker he wants. And I think it's a bit harsh writing off Ings at this point, he's done well in the limited games he's had IMO and would be worth more to us than we'd get for him at this stage after such a long lay off. The rest I agree can go.
    I did say in the original post (potentially on loan). Flanagan was loaned out after a long lay-off, and I expect Ings to be loaned out too. He needs to play again.

    Regarding Stewart, he will be 24 next season. He has barely any professional career to speak of. Played for the Under-23s again yesterday. I just can't see him hanging around without getting any game time again.

    I think Sturridge is talented but he's just not up to it physically anymore.

    I can't see any of them being in the senior squad here next season. Potentially a couple of loans, but that's it.
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    The Telegraph writes Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain is on LFC's radar for the summer...

    Please no.


    Do we even have scouts, as in actual experienced, full-time professional scouts traveling worldwide?

    Every transfer window I question this aspect about LFC's recruitment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviewonder87 View Post
    Klopp has stated he sees Stewart as the perfect squad player I believe and would rather keep hold of him. I would rather we kept hold of Sturridge but it's looking unlikely as he surely isn't happy playing second (or even third) fiddle and Klopp has made it clear he isn't the kind of striker he wants. And I think it's a bit harsh writing off Ings at this point, he's done well in the limited games he's had IMO and would be worth more to us than we'd get for him at this stage after such a long lay off. The rest I agree can go.
    He reminds me too much of Henderson, but without the engine. Wouldn't think twice about selling him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LChristina View Post
    The Telegraph writes Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain is on LFC's radar for the summer...

    Please no.


    Do we even have scouts, as in actual experienced, full-time professional scouts traveling worldwide?

    Every transfer window I question this aspect about LFC's recruitment.
    I like him as a player, but I think we can do better in terms of quality and no doubt price.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LChristina View Post
    The Telegraph writes Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain is on LFC's radar for the summer...

    Please no.


    Do we even have scouts, as in actual experienced, full-time professional scouts traveling worldwide?

    Every transfer window I question this aspect about LFC's recruitment.
    Not sure why you would question LFC recruitment after reading a news article from a rag ?

    Having said that,

    I would like to see Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain here, he has a good game more often than not, he is quite experienced and he seems like a player that would thrive in a system like the one Klopp has.

    He is certainly better than the zero options we have on the wing so far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geo1122 View Post
    I was talking about this the other day; how do you become an elite club in the modern game? Or a chronic winner?

    Some look to Leicester as a point of reference that money is not needed to be a winner, but the reality is that with sustained success money is needed... look at Leicester now.

    The first way for sustained success, from a stand point of very little success, is the influx of large amounts of money, changing both your wage and transfer structure, to essentially buy a formidable team, and continue in that manner.

    And the second one is where I believe ourselves, Tottenham, and Arsenal sit, with varying degrees of success. You need the right balance of youth coming to prominence, and you need to be "lucky" in the transfer market, with more hits than misses. If you get it right though, you will eventually have to jump into the first way of success, i.e spending and large wages, in order to continually sustain it.

    Someone of Aubameyang's readymade quality is not where we are at as a club, when it comes to transfers.
    The first 18 years since the rebranding of the Premier League

    We have won around 11 trophies in that time period

    The last 8 years 1 trophy,

    As in Liverpool fan knows the last eight years we have absolute been a disaster

    Now with Klopp one full season and majority of the season

    He's taking us two cup finals, semi final, half a season challenging for the title

    With quite a few average players, imagine what he would do when he gets right type of players he wants
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    Quote Originally Posted by LChristina View Post
    The Telegraph writes Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain is on LFC's radar for the summer...

    Please no.


    Do we even have scouts, as in actual experienced, full-time professional scouts traveling worldwide?

    Every transfer window I question this aspect about LFC's recruitment.
    Grabara?
    Adekanye?
    Grugic?
    Allan?
    Awoniyi?
    Gomes?
    Lennon?
    Chirivella?

    That's just a few of the players recruited overseas in the last few years who were relatively unknown.

    Problem is, if you're looking for players to improve the first team then you're more likely going to find those players in places that are quite exposed.

    AOC still has potential, but, as with most of the younger players under Wenger in recent years, just hasn't progressed. Unsure whether he's what we need, but he is a decent player.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    The first 18 years since the rebranding of the Premier League

    We have won around 11 trophies in that time period

    The last 8 years 1 trophy,

    As in Liverpool fan knows the last eight years we have absolute been a disaster

    Now with Klopp one full season and majority of the season

    He's taking us two cup finals, semi final, half a season challenging for the title

    With quite a few average players, imagine what he would do when he gets right type of players he wants
    Your last sentence took the words out of my mouth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LChristina View Post
    The Telegraph writes Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain is on LFC's radar for the summer...

    Please no.


    Do we even have scouts, as in actual experienced, full-time professional scouts traveling worldwide?

    Every transfer window I question this aspect about LFC's recruitment.
    Funny how we are linked with every kind of player imaginable. It is such rubbish. Why we cannot go out and get some decent players I don't know. Either it is FSGs policies that are a curese or we are the curse ourselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    The first 18 years since the rebranding of the Premier League

    We have won around 11 trophies in that time period

    The last 8 years 1 trophy,

    As in Liverpool fan knows the last eight years we have absolute been a disaster

    Now with Klopp one full season and majority of the season

    He's taking us two cup finals, semi final, half a season challenging for the title

    With quite a few average players, imagine what he would do when he gets right type of players he wants

    Indeed, BH. And he's said that the development of LFC is not even anywhere near halfway.... plenty to come!
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    Your last sentence took the words out of my mouth.
    Matip, Wijnaldum, Mane have been massive improvement what was previously had

    Karius & Grujic have potential and it's going to be a while so we see if they're good enough

    Klavan was only brought as a fourth choice backup player, he playvmore games this season then I would imagine he would have been hot and clod done ok

    Now Klopp said that he wants to add 6 good players, I can only imagine that they're going to be good quality compared to the rubbish we've had for the last eight years
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    Quote Originally Posted by LChristina View Post
    The Telegraph writes Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain is on LFC's radar for the summer...

    Please no.


    Do we even have scouts, as in actual experienced, full-time professional scouts traveling worldwide?

    Every transfer window I question this aspect about LFC's recruitment.
    Not another blind-alley merchant.

    Not unless Klopp intends to turn him into the new Mosses anyway (and I'm not talking Red Sea Pedestrian)
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    Indeed, BH. And he's said that the development of LFC is not even anywhere near halfway.... plenty to come!
    iam just worried cause he doesnt talk aboult quality,proven players.so united gets winner zlatan in will get griezman and we left out players like draxler,sane,gabriel jesus,... isco is available, but no roumor we are after
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    The first 18 years since the rebranding of the Premier League

    We have won around 11 trophies in that time period

    The last 8 years 1 trophy,

    As in Liverpool fan knows the last eight years we have absolute been a disaster

    Now with Klopp one full season and majority of the season

    He's taking us two cup finals, semi final, half a season challenging for the title

    With quite a few average players, imagine what he would do when he gets right type of players he wants
    Where do I start

    We will always be a work in progress - coz every season we will buy and sell players - keep it fresh, trying to progress, never stagnate

    So....................
    just because we make two finals, doesn't mean that everything is sweet
    just because we are suddenly top 4 doesn't mean that we didn't have the worst squad in my lifetime.....

    Competition is about the opportunity.... Can you provide a superior performance to your competitor... Can you overachieve, rather than underachieve....
    Thats why we are a conundrum, we overachieve against the top 6 and underachieve against inferior teams....

    At the end of the day competition is an opportunity to excel and succeed, entertainment is a by product, the result comes first, the chance to put points on the board and climb the ladder.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    Matip, Wijnaldum, Mane have been massive improvement what was previously had

    Karius & Grujic have potential and it's going to be a while so we see if they're good enough

    Klavan was only brought as a fourth choice backup player, he playvmore games this season then I would imagine he would have been hot and clod done ok

    Now Klopp said that he wants to add 6 good players, I can only imagine that they're going to be good quality compared to the rubbish we've had for the last eight years
    This coming summer transfer is where the bell will finally toll. I really hope we get the right players, but I'm not holding my breath about it. Another thing some big club will make an offer for Mane of that I feel certain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihamiha23 View Post
    iam just worried cause he doesnt talk aboult quality,proven players.so united gets winner zlatan in will get griezman and we left out players like draxler,sane,gabriel jesus,... isco is available, but no roumor we are after
    None of the above for us I'm afraid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    This coming summer transfer is where the bell will finally toll. I really hope we get the right players, but I'm not holding my breath about it. Another thing some big club will make an offer for Mane of that I feel certain.
    Is there any end to your negativity!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    This coming summer transfer is where the bell will finally toll. I really hope we get the right players, but I'm not holding my breath about it. Another thing some big club will make an offer for Mane of that I feel certain.
    As good as Barcelona were last night, Mane and Coutinho would have been twice as effective as Rafinha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Where do I start

    We will always be a work in progress - coz every season we will buy and sell players - keep it fresh, trying to progress, never stagnate

    So....................
    just because we make two finals, doesn't mean that everything is sweet
    just because we are suddenly top 4 doesn't mean that we didn't have the worst squad in my lifetime.....

    Competition is about the opportunity.... Can you provide a superior performance to your competitor... Can you overachieve, rather than underachieve....
    Thats why we are a conundrum, we overachieve against the top 6 and underachieve against inferior teams....

    At the end of the day competition is an opportunity to excel and succeed, entertainment is a by product, the result comes first, the chance to put points on the board and climb the ladder.....
    Where do I start

    Whenever a new manager takes over a new club when he has to start from the beginning it takes about three years to build what he wants

    Last seasons Klopp quarter through the season, new to the English league and was still learning about the squad,
    he took a bunch of average players who have averaged around 7th place the last 4 years or so two Cup finals

    Now this season is had of full pre-season and a season with the same squad, we had challenged the first half of the title and got to a semi final

    with a lot of those players not good enough which a lot of us fans already knew.

    He could have rectified mistakes by buying in two January windows

    Come next season when we buy 6 new players ( not glamour players but actually players fit the way we play) i see us doing very well in the Champions League and competing top four place as well.


    So come third season we can see how good or buy are
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    Quote Originally Posted by redfoot View Post
    This coming summer transfer is where the bell will finally toll. I really hope we get the right players, but I'm not holding my breath about it. Another thing some big club will make an offer for Mane of that I feel certain.
    And for whom does the bell toll Redfoot ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeautifulHistory View Post
    Where do I start

    Whenever a new manager takes over a new club when he has to start from the beginning it takes about three years to build what he wants

    Last seasons Klopp quarter through the season, new to the English league and was still learning about the squad,
    he took a bunch of average players who have averaged around 7th place the last 4 years or so two Cup finals

    Now this season is had of full pre-season and a season with the same squad, we had challenged the first half of the title and got to a semi final

    with a lot of those players not good enough which a lot of us fans already knew.

    He could have rectified mistakes by buying in two January windows

    Come next season when we buy 6 new players ( not glamour players but actually players fit the way we play) i see us doing very well in the Champions League and competing top four place as well.


    So come third season we can see how good or buy are
    Pure and utter BS, BH

    The average time of a manager
    Wenger and old purplenose buck the trend - most managers are out after 15 months in the premier league its about 2 years

    So your 3 year period to come good is wasted
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Pure and utter BS, BH

    The average time of a manager
    Wenger and old purplenose buck the trend - most managers are out after 15 months in the premier league its about 2 years

    So your 3 year period to come good is wasted
    Ok so Klopp should be sack of end of season because he didn't buy ridiculous amount of big players with this ridiculous transfer fees and huge wages,


    Didn't win any trophies one full season at this club

    I expect you want Sam Allardyce Brendan Rodgers the rest of the rubbish managers out there and give them a hundred million budget each season
    Last edited by BeautifulHistory; 9-3-17 at 16:09.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoDiddley View Post
    And for whom does the bell toll Redfoot ?
    It's a secret only he knows but won't say
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernRob View Post
    As good as Barcelona were last night, Mane and Coutinho would have been twice as effective as Rafinha
    2 players should be better than 1 anytime
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