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Thread: Liverpool FC: Still A Work-in-progress

  1. #1 Default Liverpool FC: Still A Work-in-progress 
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    So after a less than inspiring January, I think it's appropriate to point out that we are still a work in progress. I've made a few points below based on our full squad, come the summer when players return from loans.

    The Squad

    Bold = Personal strongest option
    Normal = Squad option
    Italic = Youth/U-23 squad

    Red = players that I expect to go (potentially on loan)
    Orange = players who could quite easily be let go (who would then need replacing)
    Blue = players I expect to go who are currently on loan/exiled


    Karius
    Ward / Bogdan / Mignolet / Manninger
    Firth / Fulton


    Clyne--Matip--Lovren--NEW LB
    Alexander-Arnold (U-21)--Flanagan--Wisdom--Gomez (U-21)--Sakho--Klavan--Milner--Moreno
    Randall--Williams--Brewitt--Jones--Hart

    Henderson
    NEW CM--Stewart--Lucas
    Allan--Chirivella

    Wijnaldum--Lallana
    Grujic--Can
    Brannagan--Ejaria

    Mane------------------Coutinho
    NEW WF--Woodburn (U-21)--Markovic--Ojo (U-21)--NEW WF
    Kent---------------------Wilson

    Firmino
    Sturridge--Origi--Ings
    Awoniyi--Dunn


    A few things to note:

    1. The vast majority of players that I expect to leave are either on loan, exiled from the club or in the youth ranks.

    The exceptions being that we have 4 strikers fighting for one striking position and only two senior players capable of playing on the wings.

    This clearly shows the lack of depth in the squad that we currently have available, or, like in the case of the attack, strength in the wrong places. A minimum of one new natural wide attacker in place of the forwards would help address such an issue and give us better balance.

    2. For the most part, any new signings should be looking to at least be of comparable quality to those players in the starting 11. The players highlighted to be leaving who are in the current squad are, it's fair to say, of quite a bit lower quality than those in the first 11. You get those squad changes right and all of a sudden the balance is much better and we become less reliant on the first 11.

    3. The lack of even outgoing cover in wide positions. This has meant that with both of these natural players being injured/absent, we've had to completely shift our team around in order to put out a senior 11 (not under-21). Injuries to Clyne, Matip and Henderson have meant that the only cover we've had were also under-21 or a player who is a fair drop in level. One of these injuries may be possible to deal with. Maybe two. All 5 in roughly the same period? It's going to have a massive effect, even when they're returning and finding their feet again.

    Summary

    Most people wouldn't have expected a title challenge, this season. The squad was assembled with the risky strategy of using youth players as cover in the hope that one or two coming in to cover injuries wouldn't make a huge difference. 4-5 have happened and we've been derailed.

    The alternatives were keeping the likes of Benteke and Balotelli or buying players in the knowledge that we had absolutely no European football - our only real outfield signings were Mane and Wijnaldum, both from England, one from a relegated side and one personally tracked by Klopp for years.

    Other signings were unlikely to make a huge impact and the opportunity to blood young players may have been worth the offset in signing mediocre ones.

    We're still a work in progress and will take time to get right.

    A settled squad with a bit of rest and recuperation can still hit the heights of the first half of the season and lay a solid foundation for a European campaign next year.
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  2. #2  
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    Bump, as just approved.
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  3. #3  
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    We've been a work in progress since 1990.
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  4. #4  
    kickthetyres is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by godworethenumber9 View Post
    We've been a work in progress since 1990.
    This is sadly accurate. We got close to the finished article a couple of times and then some of the work got undone and back we went. Got to stick with the program this time tound though.
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  5. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickthetyres View Post
    This is sadly accurate. We got close to the finished article a couple of times and then some of the work got undone and back we went. Got to stick with the program this time tound though.
    Klopp did intimate that it would be a grind for a couple of seasons, when he signed on.

    We've had highs and lows, but the progress curve is still upwards.
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  6. #6  
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    I agree with the OP and I dont blame people for getting carried away mind you, its easily done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by godworethenumber9 View Post
    We've been a work in progress since 1990.
    Yep - that and transition and patience and time..... the same old excuses.....
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by godworethenumber9 View Post
    We've been a work in progress since 1990.
    You took the words right out of my mouth.

    The two times we've approached being settled and looked like genuinely winning the league soon:

    1) Our manager has a heart attack

    2) The owners are absolute lunatics and the club melts down
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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JesalTV View Post
    You took the words right out of my mouth.

    The two times we've approached being settled and looked like genuinely winning the league soon:

    1) Our manager has a heart attack

    2) The owners are absolute lunatics and the club melts down
    Or we lose our best player/s
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    Klopp did intimate that it would be a grind for a couple of seasons, when he signed on.

    We've had highs and lows, but the progress curve is still upwards.
    This.

    I would just like to point out that talk about what happened before Klopp came here is pretty pointless, we should only be concerned with what FSG and Klopp are doing right now.
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  11. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    Klopp did intimate that it would be a grind for a couple of seasons, when he signed on.

    We've had highs and lows, but the progress curve is still upwards.
    This is the point. We have a real platform here. May not be anywhere near the finished article but we are finally looking to cut the squad to a manageable level, build a team around a solid core of players and fill the remaining with youngsters rather than average squad fillers.

    We've had a rough patch because we decided to go down this route rather than keep the fillers around here in case some kind of disaster happened, but hopefully we can get back on track and build.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grudge View Post
    This.

    I would just like to point out that talk about what happened before Klopp came here is pretty pointless, we should only be concerned with what FSG and Klopp are doing right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Campos View Post
    This is the point. We have a real platform here. May not be anywhere near the finished article but we are finally looking to cut the squad to a manageable level, build a team around a solid core of players and fill the remaining with youngsters rather than average squad fillers.

    We've had a rough patch because we decided to go down this route rather than keep the fillers around here in case some kind of disaster happened, but hopefully we can get back on track and build.
    Yeah. We kicked away that road we were on, of using what might be referred to as 'typical managers.'

    We've taken on a boss with a wholly different mindset and attitude to what we've had before. He made it obvious that it would be a long and steady haul, and it's proven to be that way. Cuts and signings with care and deliberation, not just shots in the dark, or panic buys. There's a long term plan under way, and there'll be bumps aplenty yet.

    He's disposing of the unsuitable without undue haste, and signing in the same way. It's plain that some more players will be going, and Klopp's retaining them for the time being - as they provide reasonable service, though unexciting - until his choice of replacement standard is available.

    We just have to fold our arms, sit back, and watch as the pieces come together bit by bit.

    Like I said, it's definitely an upward curve, despite some setbacks. Lord knows we've learned to be patient without really expecting much, but now we can can be patient knowing that there will undoubtedly be some pleasant resolution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    Yeah. We kicked away that road we were on, of using what might be referred to as 'typical managers.'

    We've taken on a boss with a wholly different mindset and attitude to what we've had before. He made it obvious that it would be a long and steady haul, and it's proven to be that way. Cuts and signings with care and deliberation, not just shots in the dark, or panic buys. There's a long term plan under way, and there'll be bumps aplenty yet.

    He's disposing of the unsuitable without undue haste, and signing in the same way. It's plain that some more players will be going, and Klopp's retaining them for the time being - as they provide reasonable service, though unexciting - until his choice of replacement standard is available.

    We just have to fold our arms, sit back, and watch as the pieces come together bit by bit.

    Like I said, it's definitely an upward curve, despite some setbacks. Lord knows we've learned to be patient without really expecting much, but now we can can be patient knowing that there will undoubtedly be some pleasant resolution.


    Well said, David.
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  14. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverpool8 View Post


    Well said, David.
    Cheers, mate.


    I find that it's worth trying a sensible comment once in a while.


    Come on, You Reds!!!!
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  15. #15  
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    Great post op, very nicely done.

    It shows a jigsaw puzzle with some of the pieces missing yet the missing pieces have been hand-drawn in for the time being.

    Klopp has done a very good job on the whole.

    *just to add - there's no key for the Green players (it's obvious they're new additions but just saying).
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  16. #16  
    raybarnes is offline Football Discussion Football Poster of the Season 2013-14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Yep - that and transition and patience and time..... the same old excuses.....
    There is no easy option no short cuts this is our club those who don't like it need to look for glory elsewhere
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  17. #17  
    fredthecamel is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Campos View Post
    So after a less than inspiring January, I think it's appropriate to point out that we are still a work in progress. I've made a few points below based on our full squad, come the summer when players return from loans.

    The Squad

    Bold = Personal strongest option
    Normal = Squad option
    Italic = Youth/U-23 squad

    Red = players that I expect to go (potentially on loan)
    Orange = players who could quite easily be let go (who would then need replacing)
    Blue = players I expect to go who are currently on loan/exiled


    Karius
    Ward / Bogdan / Mignolet / Manninger
    Firth / Fulton


    Clyne--Matip--Lovren--NEW LB
    Alexander-Arnold (U-21)--Flanagan--Wisdom--Gomez (U-21)--Sakho--Klavan--Milner--Moreno
    Randall--Williams--Brewitt--Jones--Hart

    Henderson
    NEW CM--Stewart--Lucas
    Allan--Chirivella

    Wijnaldum--Lallana
    Grujic--Can
    Brannagan--Ejaria

    Mane------------------Coutinho
    NEW WF--Woodburn (U-21)--Markovic--Ojo (U-21)--NEW WF
    Kent---------------------Wilson

    Firmino
    Sturridge--Origi--Ings
    Awoniyi--Dunn


    A few things to note:

    1. The vast majority of players that I expect to leave are either on loan, exiled from the club or in the youth ranks.

    The exceptions being that we have 4 strikers fighting for one striking position and only two senior players capable of playing on the wings.

    This clearly shows the lack of depth in the squad that we currently have available, or, like in the case of the attack, strength in the wrong places. A minimum of one new natural wide attacker in place of the forwards would help address such an issue and give us better balance.

    2. For the most part, any new signings should be looking to at least be of comparable quality to those players in the starting 11. The players highlighted to be leaving who are in the current squad are, it's fair to say, of quite a bit lower quality than those in the first 11. You get those squad changes right and all of a sudden the balance is much better and we become less reliant on the first 11.

    3. The lack of even outgoing cover in wide positions. This has meant that with both of these natural players being injured/absent, we've had to completely shift our team around in order to put out a senior 11 (not under-21). Injuries to Clyne, Matip and Henderson have meant that the only cover we've had were also under-21 or a player who is a fair drop in level. One of these injuries may be possible to deal with. Maybe two. All 5 in roughly the same period? It's going to have a massive effect, even when they're returning and finding their feet again.

    Summary

    Most people wouldn't have expected a title challenge, this season. The squad was assembled with the risky strategy of using youth players as cover in the hope that one or two coming in to cover injuries wouldn't make a huge difference. 4-5 have happened and we've been derailed.

    The alternatives were keeping the likes of Benteke and Balotelli or buying players in the knowledge that we had absolutely no European football - our only real outfield signings were Mane and Wijnaldum, both from England, one from a relegated side and one personally tracked by Klopp for years.

    Other signings were unlikely to make a huge impact and the opportunity to blood young players may have been worth the offset in signing mediocre ones.

    We're still a work in progress and will take time to get right.

    A settled squad with a bit of rest and recuperation can still hit the heights of the first half of the season and lay a solid foundation for a European campaign next year.
    yeah in your starting 11

    karius
    clyne new cb matip new left back
    new dm/playmaker
    wijnauldum lallana
    mane firmino phil

    then you need two wingers closer in quality to phil and mane and then we d be getting closer to what is required

    i see at least 6 major signings needed this summer....and major signings cost 20-40 million each depending on various factors.,,,,,,

    new left back 20 m
    new centre back 20-30 m
    new dm playmaker 30 m
    relacement for sturridge maybe 20 if a young one or 40-50 if first team ready

    2 new wide men 20 m each

    thats a lot of money we re gonna have to spend in summer just to bring us up to scratch

    thats three first 11 defensive player and 3 very strong attacking options to replace phil bobby and mane should injuries arise....

    and even strong attacking bench options wont come cheap....
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  18. #18  
    davevietnam is online now Academy prospect
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    Super post Campos, it will die a death though in a few days but will be perfect for a bump early May.
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  19. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by godworethenumber9 View Post
    We've been a work in progress since 1990.
    I was going to post "in other news, water is wet ands hit is brown"
    People will believe what they want to believe
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  20. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    We've had highs and lows, but the progress curve is still upwards.
    All progress curves should be upwards, but how it keeps going upwards without reaching the top is the real question............... Or maybe it's just we keep schtum about the downward spirals come plummets.
    People will believe what they want to believe
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  21. #21  
    White Star Line is offline Academy prospect
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    A work in progress?

    When is it going to be finished?

    We're the Sagrada Familia of football clubs.
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  22. #22  
    +Shriekback+ is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by godworethenumber9 View Post
    We've been a work in progress since 1990.
    Souness = disaster
    Evans = steadied the ship, played good football but he bought poorly, we never looked like winning the league.
    Houllier = lost the plot by 2002
    Benitez = brought us great success with the European Cup but he had horrible owners.
    Hodgson = forget it.
    Dalglish = it was never going to work out, he was away from the game far too long.
    Rodgers = great title challenge but he was still too inexperienced, not sharp enough tactically.

    Believe in Klopp this is our best chance for the title, 2-3 seasons it will realistically happen, when supporters use the word patience it definitely applies in this case.
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  23. #23  
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    Good post.

    It always seems to be departures that set us back. Don't get me wrong, we've made mistakes in the past, but just when we pickup some real traction a key player then departs. It was Alonso, quickly followed by Mascherano, and eventually Torres. But we eventually found a great base to build on, and bang, Suarez left, quickly followed by Sterling.

    I have confidence that Klopp will bring in the right players, but we must hold on to what we have as well.
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  24. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarknessIsCalling View Post
    I was going to post "in other news, water is wet ands hit is brown"
    Quite right beyond question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    There is no easy option no short cuts this is our club those who don't like it need to look for glory elsewhere
    There were options, they weren't taken, there are options now, and they are not being taken. Nothing is easy nobody said it was. There is an old saying that if one keeps doing the same things one gets the same results. We have been the architects of our own downfall, so why should the results be any different.
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  26. #26  
    The Kloppster is offline Academy prospect
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    At least our performance was a lot better, more like the Liverpool of a few weeks ago, albeit still not creating enough on-target chances.

    Can hold our heads in pride tonight... much better effort.
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  27. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by raybarnes View Post
    There is no easy option no short cuts this is our club those who don't like it need to look for glory elsewhere
    Agree. It will come. Some people have no patience.
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  28. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by godworethenumber9 View Post
    We've been a work in progress since 1990.
    http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38817420
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  29. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by agb1037 View Post
    Agree. It will come. Some people have no patience.
    If we wanted patience - we would of become doctors... boom boom
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    We need a centre forward
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