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Thread: Liverpool FC: Still A Work-in-progress

  1. #241  
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    Quote Originally Posted by grudge View Post
    The biggest problem for us at the moment is the amount of similar midfielders we have and klopps determination to fit them all in, hence the reason the genuine strikers don't seem to get a look in.
    I love what Klopp is trying to do, but there are flaws that should be looked at.
    The 'flaws' are the lack of players in whom we can have real confidence - just look at the number of individual player threads in the forums, and the proportion of posts within them that are critical in a disapproving way.

    Major flaws are the apparent disregard of defensive matters, and your first point about the midfield.
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  2. #242  
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    Quote Originally Posted by grudge View Post
    Agreed someone like Suarez would be perfect in this current system.
    A 'wasp' forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    A 'wasp' forward.
    Sounds super heroic
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  4. #244  
    MacFoley'1975 is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Sounds super heroic
    Yeah, waspman with a lot of bite!
    The Normal One (Emlyn is in the house) - Est 1975
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  5. #245  
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    Quote Originally Posted by grudge View Post
    The biggest problem for us at the moment is the amount of similar midfielders we have and klopps determination to fit them all in, hence the reason the genuine strikers don't seem to get a look in.
    I love what Klopp is trying to do, but there are flaws that should be looked at.
    It's an interchanging midfield and attack. Unlike having say a lucas and a hamman who can't play out wide.

    Right now, any of our mids can interchange. That's why when in full swing it's so effective. That's why if all the players really start to fit in to it, it will be a really slick, pass and move side.
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    Further to this point, it's when we did have hamman, lucas and even mascherano and people complained they did not have enough all round hame play.

    Imagine we get a solid holding mid and we have a poor game, the first player people will look at is the DM and how ineffective he is with getting forward or out wide etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    Further to this point, it's when we did have hamman, lucas and even mascherano and people complained they did not have enough all round hame play.

    Imagine we get a solid holding mid and we have a poor game, the first player people will look at is the DM and how ineffective he is with getting forward or out wide etc.
    Why would we not have enough all round play, the DM protects while they others create. Look at Spurs they have one and they look good.

    Klopp had one at Dortmund, Sven Bender.
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  8. #248  
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    Quote Originally Posted by +Shriekback+ View Post
    Why would we not have enough all round play, the DM protects while they others create. Look at Spurs they have one and they look good.

    Klopp had one at Dortmund, Sven Bender.
    The aim from klopp is to have an attack that is very fluid. Yes you still can have it to a degree with a holding mid. However it will limit the play a little. And as I said, it was a big criticism that people had of hamman, lucas and even mascherano.

    There's multiple ways of playing. For example you can play with out and out wingers like arronn lennon and a holding mid. However that winger won't offer much centrally or defensively in the middle. Nor would say a lucas, wanyama type of player be able to attack or go wide much.

    It appears that klopp is trying to have a 'total football' type of side.

    I think we have shown enough to show that it does work. We would need to buy two holding mids to make a holding mid work in our side as if one gets injured, you need another to fill in. That would change the whole work klopp has been trying to achieve with the fluid midfield and high line defence.

    I think we are close to making it work and would be silly to make a change now.
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  9. #249  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    The aim from klopp is to have an attack that is very fluid. Yes you still can have it to a degree with a holding mid. However it will limit the play a little. And as I said, it was a big criticism that people had of hamman, lucas and even mascherano.

    There's multiple ways of playing. For example you can play with out and out wingers like arronn lennon and a holding mid. However that winger won't offer much centrally or defensively in the middle. Nor would say a lucas, wanyama type of player be able to attack or go wide much.

    It appears that klopp is trying to have a 'total football' type of side.

    I think we have shown enough to show that it does work. We would need to buy two holding mids to make a holding mid work in our side as if one gets injured, you need another to fill in. That would change the whole work klopp has been trying to achieve with the fluid midfield and high line defence.

    I think we are close to making it work and would be silly to make a change now.
    I made that point previously when I stated that the demands of a defensive midfielder have changed. Defensive midfielders nowadays are more Ngolo Kante than Carrick and Lucas. The likes of Ngolo Kante and Nemanja Matic are not just expected to defend, they are expected to contribute to the attack.

    The days of a defensive midfielder shielding the back four and doing little else like a Deschamp or a Makelele are gone. There is more expected. That's why I feel when Liverpool get Keita, they'll get the best of both worlds. They'll get a player that whilst we're defending will protect the back four, but when we're on the attack will join up with the forwards and contribute goals.
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  10. #250  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kloppsstars View Post
    I made that point previously when I stated that the demands of a defensive midfielder have changed. Defensive midfielders nowadays are more Ngolo Kante than Carrick and Lucas. The likes of Ngolo Kante and Nemanja Matic are not just expected to defend, they are expected to contribute to the attack.

    The days of a defensive midfielder shielding the back four and doing little else like a Deschamp or a Makelele are gone. There is more expected. That's why I feel when Liverpool get Keita, they'll get the best of both worlds. They'll get a player that whilst we're defending will protect the back four, but when we're on the attack will join up with the forwards and contribute goals.
    Kind of yes. Top teams are relying less on a pure holding player as the game gets faster and faster.

    Yes teams can still play that way but for us, it would mean ending the work of the system we have been trying to perfect over the last couple of years. Hopefully we get it right and then we can move forward with it and only get players that fit the system.
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  11. #251  
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSG-VanBasten View Post
    Kind of yes. Top teams are relying less on a pure holding player as the game gets faster and faster.

    Yes teams can still play that way but for us, it would mean ending the work of the system we have been trying to perfect over the last couple of years. Hopefully we get it right and then we can move forward with it and only get players that fit the system.
    More BS - counter attacking with pace has always been the key to going forward - look at the problems our sideways midfield has shown with the parked bus....
    Back in the day, our fast, pass and move, one and two touch football swept all before them

    The entertainers thought that lots of passing and possession was what the fans wanted - they were wrong
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    More BS - counter attacking with pace has always been the key to going forward - look at the problems our sideways midfield has shown with the parked bus....
    Back in the day, our fast, pass and move, one and two touch football swept all before them

    The entertainers thought that lots of passing and possession was what the fans wanted - they were wrong
    Possession and going nowhere is boring. It's a false belief peddled by unadventurous managers.
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  13. #253  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    A 'wasp' forward.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Sounds super heroic
    Quote Originally Posted by MacFoley'1975 View Post
    Yeah, waspman with a lot of bite!
    That's what we need - seems to appear from nowhere, zips through a confused defence and scores!



    The Red Lycra SuperStriker outfit isn't an absolute necessity, though.
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  14. #254  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    More BS - counter attacking with pace has always been the key to going forward - look at the problems our sideways midfield has shown with the parked bus....
    Back in the day, our fast, pass and move, one and two touch football swept all before them

    The entertainers thought that lots of passing and possession was what the fans wanted - they were wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by seasonedtraveller View Post
    Possession and going nowhere is boring. It's a false belief peddled by unadventurous managers.
    This… and this.

    Keeping the ball, and just moving it about allows the opposition defence to gather themselves and reorganise.
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  15. #255  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    More BS - counter attacking with pace has always been the key to going forward - look at the problems our sideways midfield has shown with the parked bus....
    Back in the day, our fast, pass and move, one and two touch football swept all before them

    The entertainers thought that lots of passing and possession was what the fans wanted - they were wrong
    our counter attacking did not win us the league under rafa or ged. we also had problems getting past the parked bus then too.

    this system is closer to what we had back in the day with players passing the ball. Barcelona, possibly the best club side of all time in their peak used a fluid system.
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  16. #256  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    More BS - counter attacking with pace has always been the key to going forward - look at the problems our sideways midfield has shown with the parked bus....
    Back in the day, our fast, pass and move, one and two touch football swept all before them

    The entertainers thought that lots of passing and possession was what the fans wanted - they were wrong
    That's why our midfield rotates as much as the forward line does. I saw on another thread where there was too much concentration on where our midfield lines up. That needs to be forgotten about, our midfield has been designed and trained to rotate.

    I think in general the comments were just an excuse to bash Henderson for no apparent reason. He was bashed in the Maribor match-day thread despite being injured.
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  17. #257  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    More BS - counter attacking with pace has always been the key to going forward - look at the problems our sideways midfield has shown with the parked bus....
    Back in the day, our fast, pass and move, one and two touch football swept all before them

    The entertainers thought that lots of passing and possession was what the fans wanted - they were wrong
    Rubbish. Its difficult to counter attack teams which park the bus. Swashbuckling counter attacking football is only possible if the opposition are willing to attack - most teams won't do that. They sit back - if you're advocating we do the same then practically every game we play would be boring as **** - like watching a chess game with both sides waiting for the other to make a mistake.

    "Back in the day" we always had lots of possession - the difference was we had better players than most teams. Most games are about passing and possession (unless you adhere to the Fat Sam, Pulis and/or Maureen school of thought where 19th century, kick n rush, up and at em is the order of the day).

    Its also possible to play entertaining football based on passing and possession - see Barca, Arsenal at their peak and I'm sure the current City side have quite high possession stats.
    everything in moderation, including moderation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedKev68 View Post
    Rubbish. Its difficult to counter attack teams which park the bus. Swashbuckling counter attacking football is only possible if the opposition are willing to attack - most teams won't do that. They sit back - if you're advocating we do the same then practically every game we play would be boring as **** - like watching a chess game with both sides waiting for the other to make a mistake.

    "Back in the day" we always had lots of possession - the difference was we had better players than most teams. Most games are about passing and possession (unless you adhere to the Fat Sam, Pulis and/or Maureen school of thought where 19th century, kick n rush, up and at em is the order of the day).

    Its also possible to play entertaining football based on passing and possession - see Barca, Arsenal at their peak and I'm sure the current City side have quite high possession stats.
    You need all facets of the game - not one
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedKev68 View Post
    Rubbish. Its difficult to counter attack teams which park the bus. Swashbuckling counter attacking football is only possible if the opposition are willing to attack - most teams won't do that. They sit back - if you're advocating we do the same then practically every game we play would be boring as **** - like watching a chess game with both sides waiting for the other to make a mistake.

    "Back in the day" we always had lots of possession - the difference was we had better players than most teams. Most games are about passing and possession (unless you adhere to the Fat Sam, Pulis and/or Maureen school of thought where 19th century, kick n rush, up and at em is the order of the day).

    Its also possible to play entertaining football based on passing and possession - see Barca, Arsenal at their peak and I'm sure the current City side have quite high possession stats.
    Rubbish.

    Counter attacking is the only option against teams that park the bus. We saw that against West Ham. They played deep and tried to hit us on the counter, and we scored on the break from one of their corners.

    The only times counter attacking/counter pressing doesn't work is when the opposition will neither be expansive or counter attack themselves. We saw that recently against Borinho's United. They spent the entire game camped on the edge of their own box. They were dependent in hopeful hoofs to Lukaku which didn't work because his first touch is abysmal.
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  20. #260  
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    Where's Coach??
    loyal since 1960.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountbeautygeorge View Post
    Where's Coach??
    Good question. I would love to know the answer to that too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountbeautygeorge View Post
    Where's Coach??
    Quote Originally Posted by Kloppsstars View Post
    Good question. I would love to know the answer to that too.
    He might well still be pursuing legal matters with LFC Forums.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiddlerDave View Post
    He might well still be pursuing legal matters with LFC Forums.
    What?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    What?
    He fell out with the site admin - above the mods -
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    He fell out with the site admin - above the mods -
    Know that, but legal matters?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Know that, but legal matters?
    That's what Coach said, as I recall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Know that, but legal matters?
    I did see an explanation of the issue somewhere a few months ago - in one of the off topic threads... think it got deleted shortly after for obvious reasons
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