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Thread: TOP POSTS. A Thread Highlighting Some of our Best Football Posts.

  1. #1 Default  
    Jannno is online now LFC Forums Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    In here you'll find some of our selected posts which are worth a read and a response. Not because they promote one particular view or another, but because they are thoughtful and we'll argued, and take a considered view. A link to each one will be added so you can reply to it and continue the conversation. You can use 'Report' to recommend a post you feel is worthy of inclusion and we'll consider it.
    Last edited by Jannno; 8-2-17 at 23:52.
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  2. #2  
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Sorry for another new thread, but I wanted to read peoples opinions on the best way forward from right now, devoid of blame and past issues.

    For me its complicated but there are three main things that I would implement over the next six months.

    First, as of right now,

    I would play Karius in goal, and Can at DM with Gini and Lallana ahead of him for the rest of the season. This will give us a much clearer idea as to whether we need a number 1 or number 2 goal keeper, and whether we NEED 1 or 2 top quality midfielders.

    Second, the obvious bit,

    Transfer Market. Depending on the outcome from above, absolute minimum GK, CB, LB, MF x1 or x2. Top quality starting 11players. These positions must be addressed THIS window with the aim of sharply reducing the amount of goals we are conceding. (If there's extra resources for RB, striker, wing, then great)

    Third, the harder bit,

    The teams mentality and culture needs to change. For too long we have been losing or drawing too many matches we should be winning. It has become the norm over the past two decades to put in a good performance against a big team only to drop points next match to a team in the lower half of the table.

    How to change course on this for the long term is complicated, but how about starting with this? Identify all teams in the League next season other than Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Man U, Man C, and Everton as priority matches.

    That's 26 games that we prioritise over all others. In terms of player perchases, team set up, tactics, and fatigue management. I'm not saying we ignore the bigger games or CL / EL, Domestic Cups etc. We do our best in those games with the resources available but NOT to the detriment of those 26 games.

    Anything less than 60 points from those 26 games is not a success and we go into the following season(s) with the same strategy until we get this right. And then build on that.

    That's my two cents worth, and a couple suggestions.

    Last edited by Jannno; 10-2-17 at 21:26.
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  3. #3  
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Thanks for this thread, I think its nice to see a thread that isnt only looking at who to blame, but also looks forward and tries to figure out how we can reach our goals going forward.

    From my point of view our biggest problem is that we have a very small squad of qualified players, which has caused Klopp to rely to much in playing in a way that only worked out with the same 13-14 players all season. As soon as we got hit by several injuries and setbacks our team just crumbled, cus the players that came in to the team isnt able to play the same way the preferrred starters were doing it. Simply put. Only 14 players can play the way we played at our best, and even a player like Origi even though he scored several goals for a period of time didnt even fit into the system perfectly. This means several things that has lead to the poor form we have experienced, like Firmino not really having any competetion for a spot in the team, and that Klopp continues to play him or try to play the same way every time we play.

    Firmino needs a rest and he has needed that for some time, cus he has had a lot of things going bad for him and its normal that a player hs lows during a season. Firmino has kept playing, kept starting even though he hasnt been performing for some time. Can hasnt been good enough, and the only trio that really worked out in midfield was Hendo, Gini and Adam, but they havent hit their previous levels as well.

    I think most of our prooblems are caused by the players coming back from injury, cus the pressure has been on them ever since they got injured and the expectations of them coming back and being where they were is a bit silly. In all other clubs in the top of PL im pretty confident that they would be eased into the team to bigger degree than they have been here.

    Basicly i think there are two valid options, but im not sure which one would help us out the most. We can change the gameplan and accept that not all the players we have fit into the Gegenpressing all the time mindset and try to dominate more possession and set up our players on the flanks while having two strikers in at the same time. I would suggest a 442 with a narrow diamond and have our fullbacks running deep all the time with midfielders to cover up in the form of Adam and Gini while Hendo stays deep and protects the back 4. Coutinho should play free roled number 10 and we should be playing with Mane as one of the strikers and possibly Sturridge or Firmino as a deeper flick on kind of player. This system could be a alternative way to play when we play smaller teams, cus we would be able to get more players at the centre of the pitch while assaulting the flanks.

    The other idea is to keep our strategy and our mindset and give our players some time to recover. Replace Can with Stewart, replace Coutinho with Sturridge and replace firmino with Origi for a few games, just to get them back on track. This would make us look something like this untill the players that came back from injuries are back on track in traning nad are looking sharp again. If players feel completely sure on their position no matter how they play they get lazy which is very bad.

    Lineup against Tottenham - yeh i understand how important this game is.



    Then we have a lot of players hungry and skilled who can come on from the bench. Klopp needs to challenge his best players to doubt if they can just grab a spot no matter how they play.

    LINK. POST 57
    Last edited by Jannno; 10-2-17 at 21:29.
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  4. #4  
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    "Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple.” – Bill Shankly

    Long time lurker, very infrequent poster. I wanted to get involved in the forums and debate with some of you guys and girls. This is my first attempt at a structured post to create debate, so please be gentle. Constructive criticism both positive and negative is much appreciated. You dont learn without difference of opinion.

    Liverpool are my love, my passion, my joy. They’re also the source of sheer frustration and bewilderment at times. I suppose most fans feel the same. Your team goes out and plays a blinder one week then turns in a performance even Sunday League opposition would scoff at the next. You sit in the car on the way back from the match, in the pub with your mates or even at work the next day and discuss the game in detail. If only that one shot went in. If only that penalty had been given. Why was he not sent off? It happens week in week out, the length and breadth of the country. Fans are rapturous or forlorn. Top 4 seems out of reach. Relegation looming. There’s always next week or next year (Haha yeah I know).

    I’m not a coach or a manager, nor am I “qualified” to do either, though I certainly believe I have the knowledge to. My physical ability has always been that of Sunday League. I grew too late. Didn’t have the confidence or the support to flourish. The mental side of the game though, that is where I believe I excel. My mind has always been quicker than my body. I see the passes before the players even think about moving. I’m screaming at them and willing them to get moving in the right direction but only via my thoughts. It frustrates me that I never got the chance to play to a high standard. I’ve been praised by professionals on more than one occasion, though too little too late to do anything about it. Maybe I should get started on my badges to see if I could get anywhere but that’s a pipedream for the time being.

    So my intentions were to skip through our latest game vs Burnley and highlight a few key moments where I thought our players made the wrong decisions either with the ball or their runs off it. What I found was startling. Our decision making, when analysed on a phase by phase or play by play basis is downright abysmal. These are the problems I picked out in the first 2-3 mins of the match. Yes I guess sometimes it takes a while to settle but they’re professionals paid vast sums of money to be the best at what they do. Maybe my thought process is wrong, lets see.

    The ball is played across the back line, rather slowly I may add and ends up with Matip. Now Matip has the ball and plenty of room to move forwards with it. Should he carry it, maybe not. That leaves a 2v3 albeit in our favour if he loses the ball. I’ve used red lines to indicate the direction of players runs. Why after the play being passed across the back line, does he not have a single simple passing option? Not one really easy ball in to feet. Mane drops deep, as indicated by his line but it’s too late as the play is already passed him by the time he decides to move. The players circled in black are pretty much out of the game at this point. Coutinho is drifting towards the ball with no thoughts about what happens if we lose it. Wijnaldum is in a reasonable position to defend should we lose it but is offering nothing to the play moving forward. Both Clyne and Lallana make the same run up the touchline. It’s madness. It’s like they have absolutely no awareness whatsoever.

    By the time Matip has the ball comfortably under control and is able to play a pass, these are his options. Not a single one is free. Not one person on the whole team is able to receive a pass directly to feet to keep possession of the ball. He ends up having to turn back and start again. SIX players with no impact on that particular phase. SIX!

    The next one, a counter attack. Something we’re supposedly good at. Breaking and utilising Coutinho’s vision with the pace of Mane and Origi and the energy of Lallana.

    The ball (white line is the direction) comes to Origi who’s moving to meet it. He flicks it to Mane who’s already on his bike in behind. Origi can’t miss this. So why does he flick it horizontally across the pitch instead of maybe a dummy or the tiniest of touches to nick it around the defender on his back?

    This is what I believe should happen in this situation.

    Origi should cushion the ball into the space Coutinho is heading into. This allows Mane to stay moving. Uses Coutinho’s vision and allows Origi to shield Coutinho’s space and move forward. Origi can then give another option to the left. Am I wrong?

    This next one is a massive peeve of mine. The pic shows that the team just don’t actually know who should be doing what.

    There is absolutely nobody inbetween the lines, in a position to influence the play. Wijnaldum has his hand up asking for the ball but he’s blocked by an opponent and one of our own players. Can needs to drop to the centre circle, one to make room for Matip to move with the ball and two to cover his forward roam. Clyne is stood still doing absolutely nothing. Mane our fastest player is dropping into the hole instead of playing on the shoulder and Coutinho our weakest player, is looking to run in behind on a lofted ball. Why is Couts not in the hole? What is Lallana hoping to offer other than a simple wall pass? Origi has just checked his run. The only simple passes are Can or Lallana, neither of which progress the play. The only people in this entire picture in the right place are Wijnaldum and Milner. The play should have been switched but Can is blocking the view of it.

    Here’s what happened

    Yeah a lofted ball towards Coutinho. One of the two smallest guys on the pitch vs tall CB’s. It baffles me.

    Firstly, this is a very small sample size and this post is a little rushed. I had hoped to really go into more detail but I didnt expect to find so many glaring errors during revision. Well, errors in my mind at least. For a team that controls possession against the vast majority of teams. We certainly do have issues with people both making/seeing the right pass and more importantly, people being in the right area to receive that pass.

    Let me take you back to that Shanks quote at the top of the page. Whether Klopp has a similar philosophy or not. Football is legitimately summed up perfectly by Shanks. Firstly you need to have the ball. We do have an awful lot of it. What you do with the ball is controlled by what the people off the ball are doing. I believe this is a major sticking point for us. We just dont do enough of the simple stuff right. I was always taught and believe entirely, that you should always have 3 simple options to give the ball to. One forward, one sideways and one back. That way you’re never stuck. You never hesitate. You know they are there. You’re confident in your team mates ability to be in that space, or at least you should be. That’s not the case for us.

    Gegenpressing could leave gaps in our formation defensively that the opponent can punish. Of that I can’t argue. It directly relates to some of our absolutely abysmal defensive performances. There’s absolutely no excuse for not being in the right place for your own team when you control the ball. Bit of a strange comparison but if you watch Barcelona lets say, with their “Tiki-Taka” football. Every single one of their players is comfortable taking a pass with a defender glued to their back. They trust entirely in their team mates to be an option for them to release the ball to almost instantly. They control the ball better than any team I’ve ever seen. They’re patient but deadly. Our team can be so brilliantly fluid and mesmerising in attack when they get that bit between their teeth. You cant however, be dangerous when you’re offering nothing to both sides of the play. If you’re not in a position to receive the ball, you need to be in a position to defend the space those who are moving leave behind. We just dont.

    What is wrong? Do I expect too much? I watched more of the game and this pattern just repeats itself over and over. It’s not teams being defensively astute against us. We’re just not in the right positions enough. I feel like I’m barking up the wrong tree and that it’s a fruitless endeavour to be stressed and frustrated, considering we’re still doing better than we have done for the majority of the last 10 years. We blow hot and cold but that could be said for almost any team. What I don’t see changing though is our players lack of effort to help the situation. I’m going to analyse a few other games and pinpoint some more specific terrible decisions, rather than just general play. I want to be thorough. My sample size is small. Maybe I chose a bad game. I thought about all the ways people could argue against the point. I won’t dismiss constructive criticism. I just don’t see how anyone could be happy with it.

    Rant over


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    Last edited by Jannno; 19-3-17 at 17:21. Reason: added link
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