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Thread: Donald Trump POTUS...unbelievable Jeff!

  1. #1231  
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    Quote Originally Posted by shody1976 View Post
    This is pretty desperate stuff.

    When did Obama lie about WMD? Clinton was forced to admit on national television that he lied and an attempt was made to impeach him.
    Can you read? I said Bush.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KennyRodgers View Post
    Their body language in the Oval Office was cringeworthy. Merkel was behaving as if she was trying to humour a very small child.
    It was scary stuff - refusing to shake her hand, sat there like a scared little boy
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    Given what Trump has bragged about doing with his hands, every woman is probably relieved when he keeps his hands away from them.
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    Comey testifying today, one way or another, we'll finally find out what the hell has been looked at/dismissed/still ongoing at the FBI regarding Trump links to Russia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    It was scary stuff - refusing to shake her hand, sat there like a scared little boy
    He seemed more petulant than scared - something had obviously happened - either he was having one of his dicky days or she told him they had something on him and he better behave. I couldn't work out if he was checkmated or disappointed.

    Either way, certainly not presidential.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    He seemed more petulant than scared - something had obviously happened - either he was having one of his dicky days or she told him they had something on him and he better behave. I couldn't work out if he was checkmated or disappointed.

    Either way, certainly not presidential.
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  7. #1237  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    He seemed more petulant than scared - something had obviously happened - either he was having one of his dicky days or she told him they had something on him and he better behave. I couldn't work out if he was checkmated or disappointed.

    Either way, certainly not presidential.
    I think he has a very unstable ego and when he's not fawned to he goes stroppy. Its happened a few times with other leaders (but not to this extent). I think she probably explained why his tweets on NATO are wrong, or believing any old **** on his favourite TV channel is foolish.
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    China prepares to counter any U.S. trade penalties
    http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2...408508768.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    He seemed more petulant than scared - something had obviously happened - either he was having one of his dicky days or she told him they had something on him and he better behave. I couldn't work out if he was checkmated or disappointed.

    Either way, certainly not presidential.
    What about his reaction would you say is not presidential? Or better still could you explain what 'presidential' behaviour is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    What about his reaction would you say is not presidential? Or better still could you explain what 'presidential' behaviour is?
    Never mind presidential. How 'bout acting like an adult to begin with and slowly working his way towards something approaching comfort in his own skin and then comfort in the situation?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortigen View Post
    Never mind presidential. How 'bout acting like an adult to begin with and slowly working his way towards something approaching comfort in his own skin and then comfort in the situation?
    I don't assume how we see Trump is him or his personality. Values have long been attacked and in a society dominated by 'actors' now people say and act often in the media to gain a desired outcome. There are whole industries dedicated to image which is a fictional media representation of something.

    It's quite possible Trump is childish. It's quite possible this is naturally him, it's also possible he's playing a role. A role where a society 'dumbed down' seeking drama and headlines and entertainment and increasing in conflict, sick of political correctness he's simply the entertainment to cover the important things.

    The question I asked though was a reference to the Trump in this situation being called 'non presidential' means people have a predetermined idea of presidential which means presidents are pretty much decided before they arrive and perhaps Trump was the counter culture. The interesting part is what do people here view as presidential?

    Let's say we go along with the 'subjective' view that Trump was annoyed by Merkel. What is a presidential reaction? How does a president react?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    I don't assume how we see Trump is him or his personality. Values have long been attacked and in a society dominated by 'actors' now people say and act often in the media to gain a desired outcome. There are whole industries dedicated to image which is a fictional media representation of something.

    It's quite possible Trump is childish. It's quite possible this is naturally him, it's also possible he's playing a role. A role where a society 'dumbed down' seeking drama and headlines and entertainment and increasing in conflict, sick of political correctness he's simply the entertainment to cover the important things.

    The question I asked though was a reference to the Trump in this situation being called 'non presidential' means people have a predetermined idea of presidential which means presidents are pretty much decided before they arrive and perhaps Trump was the counter culture. The interesting part is what do people here view as presidential?

    Let's say we go along with the 'subjective' view that Trump was annoyed by Merkel. What is a presidential reaction? How does a president react?
    Presidential means acting with dignity and class and not blabbing your mouth off on twitter with fake rumours.
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    Didn't realise the term 'Presidential' was gonna be controversial. I assumed people would know what I meant. I use it as a colloquialism I guess.

    Anyhow, dictionaries struggle with the word but the nearest match would be "having a bearing or demeanour befitting a president; dignified and confident".

    So I guess it is what the public generally expect from their president based on past presidents and current social norms. There will be outliers, there will be slight variations. But the gist will be similar - even from those who want a different type of president.
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  14. #1244  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Em-inLeam View Post
    Presidential means acting with dignity and class and not blabbing your mouth off on twitter with fake rumours.
    Quote Originally Posted by DantesShadow View Post
    Didn't realise the term 'Presidential' was gonna be controversial. I assumed people would know what I meant. I use it as a colloquialism I guess.

    Anyhow, dictionaries struggle with the word but the nearest match would be "having a bearing or demeanour befitting a president; dignified and confident".

    So I guess it is what the public generally expect from their president based on past presidents and current social norms. There will be outliers, there will be slight variations. But the gist will be similar - even from those who want a different type of president.
    Both interesting answers. The referenced behaviour was Trump 'supposedly' annoyed with Merkel. The term 'presidential' isn't controversial but it would be controversial to me if the world had the same view of what a president should look like and talk like because that would suggest this view has been manufactured for us.

    I often hear the same word strong, confident, dignified, diplomatic. The notions of these 'qualities' and our understanding of term is really the most interesting thing and perhaps the most controversial. For example we are taught to value presidential behaviour when it shows a complete lack of emotion. The robotic Obama-speak.

    This is a slight digression but links into Trump and our perception of presidential behaviour. If was discovered through tests that people interpret the exact same facial expressions completely differently depending on the context. In films the same face (with no emotion at all) will be seen as sad, emotional, thoughtful, angry depending on how the editing of the film is done and the context of the scene.

    The blank canvass. We assign our own interpretation and project our own beliefs into that blank canvass. Presidents drop bombs, cause suffering and they show no emotion. That's being strong. A disaster or awful events happens and they show no emotion and we say dignified. A person that has complete certainty in what they say is often somebody who cares not for others opinions or possibly doesn't care but we may see confidence.

    Even political correctness is the embodiment of hiding your feelings for fear others will judge. Presidential behaviour of never saying anything that could cause offence simply lends itself to promotion of concealment. Hiding everything, joy, anger, annoyance, rage, sorrow, pain and we see that as great. Concealment of personal beliefs of feelings, complete lack of emotion in all and every situation is pretty much the accepted 'presidential behaviour' and then we wonder why our governments don't seem ti care and why they always lie.

    The first lie is the projection. I absolutely agree with you all by the way Trump is not somebody i could ever suggest could or should be even considered for president. Be careful though if you have an idea of accepted presidential behaviour because it is generally lack of compassion, lack of emotion, concealment of intent and not caring for your opinion.

    It's much easier to conceal when you don't care about those you're lying to. If you see that as strong, confident, dignified then that's your projection. In a world of individuals being constrained more and more to have such a narrow and easily manipulated view of presidential reaction is part of the problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    Both interesting answers. The referenced behaviour was Trump 'supposedly' annoyed with Merkel. The term 'presidential' isn't controversial but it would be controversial to me if the world had the same view of what a president should look like and talk like because that would suggest this view has been manufactured for us.

    I often hear the same word strong, confident, dignified, diplomatic. The notions of these 'qualities' and our understanding of term is really the most interesting thing and perhaps the most controversial. For example we are taught to value presidential behaviour when it shows a complete lack of emotion. The robotic Obama-speak.

    This is a slight digression but links into Trump and our perception of presidential behaviour. If was discovered through tests that people interpret the exact same facial expressions completely differently depending on the context. In films the same face (with no emotion at all) will be seen as sad, emotional, thoughtful, angry depending on how the editing of the film is done and the context of the scene.

    The blank canvass. We assign our own interpretation and project our own beliefs into that blank canvass. Presidents drop bombs, cause suffering and they show no emotion. That's being strong. A disaster or awful events happens and they show no emotion and we say dignified. A person that has complete certainty in what they say is often somebody who cares not for others opinions or possibly doesn't care but we may see confidence.

    Even political correctness is the embodiment of hiding your feelings for fear others will judge. Presidential behaviour of never saying anything that could cause offence simply lends itself to promotion of concealment. Hiding everything, joy, anger, annoyance, rage, sorrow, pain and we see that as great. Concealment of personal beliefs of feelings, complete lack of emotion in all and every situation is pretty much the accepted 'presidential behaviour' and then we wonder why our governments don't seem ti care and why they always lie.

    The first lie is the projection. I absolutely agree with you all by the way Trump is not somebody i could ever suggest could or should be even considered for president. Be careful though if you have an idea of accepted presidential behaviour because it is generally lack of compassion, lack of emotion, concealment of intent and not caring for your opinion.

    It's much easier to conceal when you don't care about those you're lying to. If you see that as strong, confident, dignified then that's your projection. In a world of individuals being constrained more and more to have such a narrow and easily manipulated view of presidential reaction is part of the problem.
    This is why I'm a Corbyn fan.
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  16. #1246  
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    So, Re: Comeys testimony. Confirms probe into Russian interference in election and possible collusion(co-ordination) Between Kremlin and Trump associates and whether any crimes were committed. Authorized by the Justice department to say so (despite his previous stance).

    Comey "we cannot do our work well or fairly if we just start talking about it while were doing it"

    No wire tap at Trump Towers

    Its on live now if anyone is interested.

    Theres a lot of "I cant comment" coming up in specific questions regarding Stone and Manafort so anyone looking for answers now, might be a little disappointed.
    Last edited by Eloader; 20-3-17 at 15:18.
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    Comey's expression basically says "hmm, in hindsight, I think Hillary would have been preferable"
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Star Line View Post
    Comey's expression basically says "hmm, in hindsight, I think Hillary would have been preferable"
    And he was one of the architects to her defeat. Although he would state that he was acting in accordance to his post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    I don't assume how we see Trump is him or his personality. Values have long been attacked and in a society dominated by 'actors' now people say and act often in the media to gain a desired outcome. There are whole industries dedicated to image which is a fictional media representation of something.

    It's quite possible Trump is childish. It's quite possible this is naturally him, it's also possible he's playing a role. A role where a society 'dumbed down' seeking drama and headlines and entertainment and increasing in conflict, sick of political correctness he's simply the entertainment to cover the important things.

    The question I asked though was a reference to the Trump in this situation being called 'non presidential' means people have a predetermined idea of presidential which means presidents are pretty much decided before they arrive and perhaps Trump was the counter culture. The interesting part is what do people here view as presidential?

    Let's say we go along with the 'subjective' view that Trump was annoyed by Merkel. What is a presidential reaction? How does a president react?
    A person that brings a suitable amount of gravitas to the acting. An Othello rather than a Bottom.
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  20. #1250  
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Star Line View Post
    Comey's expression basically says "hmm, in hindsight, I think Hillary would have been preferable"
    Hmmm ... more predictabe. Not necessarily "better" ... choice of two bad eggs ... One a child in nappies learning or rather not learning how to be a human being, the other a complete cynic and part of the status machinery. I think it is safer to say ... we probably would have been more "comfortable" with Clinton, because we would have known which way the wind blows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreams-come-true View Post
    Hmmm ... more predictabe. Not necessarily "better" ... choice of two bad eggs ... One a child in nappies learning or rather not learning how to be a human being, the other a complete cynic and part of the status machinery. I think it is safer to say ... we probably would have been more "comfortable" with Clinton, because we would have known which way the wind blows.
    The orange egg was/is verifiably worse in every way shape and form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Star Line View Post
    The orange egg was/is verifiably worse in every way shape and form.
    Of course we aren't really in a position to judge what Clinton would have done or not and Trump has not been in long enough to make a full assessment, but, you could say that Clinton may have been a continuation of Obama (in one way or another) so the question then becomes, How is Trump different from Obama and in what way?

    A lot of it isn't looking good especially the 2018 budget (which I doubt will be passed in its current form), and god help those who wanted environmental protections or lower taxes for the poor or the ACA sorting out so everyone has healthcare etc etc.

    Raiding pretty much every department for a massive defence hike is just plain irresponsible to the country hes in charge of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Of course we aren't really in a position to judge what Clinton would have done or not and Trump has not been in long enough to make a full assessment, but, you could say that Clinton may have been a continuation of Obama (in one way or another) so the question then becomes, How is Trump different from Obama and in what way?

    A lot of it isn't looking good especially the 2018 budget (which I doubt will be passed in its current form), and god help those who wanted environmental protections or lower taxes for the poor or the ACA sorting out so everyone has healthcare etc etc.

    Raiding pretty much every department for a massive defence hike is just plain irresponsible to the country hes in charge of.
    Sorry, but the whole "well we don't know what Hillary would have done/let's give Trump some time" argument just doesn't fly.

    We know Hillary wouldn't have have been tweeting about TV ratings for The Apprentice or parroting things she heard that day on FOX News, or bewildering the Chancellor of Germany with conspiracy theories. Trump is no different now to how he's been since the day he announced his candidacy. There's never going to be a point where he miraculously changes and becomes a rational human being. If you're waiting for that, you'll be waiting forever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Star Line View Post
    Sorry, but the whole "well we don't know what Hillary would have done/let's give Trump some time" argument just doesn't fly.

    We know Hillary wouldn't have have been tweeting about TV ratings for The Apprentice or parroting things she heard that day on FOX News, or bewildering the Chancellor of Germany with conspiracy theories. Trump is no different now to how he's been since the day he announced his candidacy. There's never going to be a point where he miraculously changes and becomes a rational human being. If you're waiting for that, you'll be waiting forever.
    That's not what I said. ....or was that a general point made of what is repeated by Trump supporters?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    That's not what I said. ....or was that a general point made of what is repeated by Trump supporters?
    Well it basically is what you said, unless you were playing devil's advocate for the average argument used by Trump supporters/Hillary detractors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Star Line View Post
    Well it basically is what you said, unless you were playing devil's advocate for the average argument used by Trump supporters/Hillary detractors.
    Nah, I said that because Clinton is not in charge we cant say for sure what her policies would have been....as a way to look how Trumps policies so far compared to Obama, with the emphasis on so far....and then note some of the big damaging changes (by no means exhaustive). I was not intending to play devils advocate although in hindsight it did come off a bit like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    Nah, I said that because Clinton is not in charge we cant say for sure what her policies would have been....as a way to look how Trumps policies so far compared to Obama, with the emphasis on so far....and then note some of the big damaging changes (by no means exhaustive). I was not intending to play devils advocate although in hindsight it did come off a bit like that.
    I think we safely presume her policies would not have been to cut everything except the military and not throw sick and hungry people to the wolves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eloader View Post
    I think he has a very unstable ego and when he's not fawned to he goes stroppy. Its happened a few times with other leaders (but not to this extent). I think she probably explained why his tweets on NATO are wrong, or believing any old **** on his favourite TV channel is foolish.
    An out and out narcissist.

    All Trump claims are slowly being seen as baseless and why is that? Firstly because they are and secondly because he is the villain and doing exactly what he is accusing opponents of. So he comes out with these claims so as to divert everyone's attention. FBI etc all spend time investigating his claims whereas they should be looking at what he's done. Its a well known tactic of guilty people.
    Last edited by ghyllred; 21-3-17 at 18:27.
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    He's being enabled by media groups who should no better. That's why he knows he can basically tweet anything and not much will be done about it. CNN in particular are the worst. He publically demeans and insults them, yet yesterday, they still carried his rally live and completely unchallenged, for an event that served no purpose whatsoever other than personally glorifying him, refusing to call him an outright liar despite ample cause, and persistently giving his cronies like Jeffrey Lord airtime to act as apologists for everything he does.
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    Gabe OrtÝz‏Verified account @TUSK81

    .@SeanHannity back in October: A president under FBI investigation wld present "a major Constitutional crisis".
    https://twitter.com/TUSK81/status/844187230499352576


    and Kellyanne Conway saying very similar things as well about a president under investigation by the FBI.

    Kellyanne Conway
    @KellyannePolls
    Most honest people I know are not under FBI investigation, let alone two. https://twitter.com/foxnews/status/792159005774794753
    Last edited by angelYNWA; 21-3-17 at 23:42.
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