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Thread: Donald Trump POTUS...unbelievable Jeff!

  1. #2491  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    And then you have Kevin McCarthy and Paul Ryan. Who, on tape, said that "I think Putin is paying Trump.' which Ryan quickly said 'This stays here, no leaks, so we know we're a family.'

    When asked about this exchange, both flat out denied it. When they were told they have tapes of it, they quickly said 'Oh, it was a joke.'

    I hope the tapes come out, so we can hear the tone of those words, because they look pretty damning on paper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    Yes, you should read the story on how Trump's team 'put forward the idea' of keeping NAFTA. Basically the same way that I get my 5 year old to thinking that cleaning his room is cool and a big boy job.

    So are you arguing that Trump lied the entire time and it seems like the entire Republican platform of denouncing anything Obama did was..... partisan politics? And these are actually good deals?
    The Iranian deal from the Obama administration is more preferable than any alternative Trump has offered. It's a good thing he's had a continuation of it. The problem is the misinformation not that particular policy. I won't give my own personal opinions on Iran because I certainly don't want to antagonise posters who believe Iran is some kind of enemy.

    What we have here is Trump acting as a Republican candidate and attacking Democrat policy and then actually continuing it. Two parties, very different rhetoric same policy. I'm not a fan of free trade deals either when they are heavily weighted in favour of capital and corporations (not sure I'm in favour of them at all) but I have been extremely critical of Clinton for two things NAFTA and financial deregulation.

    Are they Democrat policies? No. They're Republican policies. Deregulation, market liberalisation and labour instability was designed by Greenspan. NAFTA was originally drawn up not by Clinton but by Bush. Same policy.

    I've been critical of administrations that support illegal immigration whilst moving manufacturing abroad (losing jobs) in the environment of labour instability and corporate rights through free trade deals. Both parties support this. Trump has attacked illegal immigration and he's full of bluster. We'll build a wall and he'll start quickly during his reign kicking people out.

    It won't last he'll go back on that I guarantee it and what makes me so sure? Trump set a target for his entire administration of 3 million illegal immigrants gone. That's his target. Under Obama 2.5 million were deported. He's not even planning to do much more. Now I would suggest that perhaps the extra half a million (if he achieves his target) will be offset by half a million obtaining visas for farming.

    The differences between the two parties on many subjects are not even definable. Two parties. Two completely different sets of rhetoric seemingly opposed. Yet same policy.
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  3. #2493  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    "@AP - BREAKING: Top Republican on Senate intelligence panel says Michael Flynn's lawymakers say he will not honor subpoena.'

    I wonder what it could be hiding....
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    "@AP - BREAKING: Top Republican on Senate intelligence panel says Michael Flynn's lawymakers say he will not honor subpoena.'

    I wonder what it could be hiding....
    Maybe he's bust destroying emails and devices, bleaching them perhaps Come on that was too easy I had to do it Louie. Though in all honesty I'm probably right. Covering his own tracks like the rest of them seems logical.
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  5. #2495  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    Maybe he's bust destroying emails and devices, bleaching them perhaps Come on that was too easy I had to do it Louie. Though in all honesty I'm probably right. Covering his own tracks like the rest of them seems logical.


    But he's had FISA warrants on him for months, so I would have thought CIA or FBI or whomever would already have most of this stuff, and the subpoena was merely a formality.

    It only harms his reputation and makes him look more guilty. It must mean that whatever is in there, is big.
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    The Yanks really have a serious mental health problem when it comes to Russia. It seems the be all and end all. It's obsessive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post


    But he's had FISA warrants on him for months, so I would have thought CIA or FBI or whomever would already have most of this stuff, and the subpoena was merely a formality.

    It only harms his reputation and makes him look more guilty. It must mean that whatever is in there, is big.
    I'll give you my honest opinion Louie, they're all guilty. Power has been acting with immunity for so long they all think they don't have to follow the rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vonStauffenberg View Post
    The Yanks really have a serious mental health problem when it comes to Russia. It seems the be all and end all. It's obsessive.
    This isn't about Russia. It is rather annoying that Russia is the country at the center of it because it distracts from the actual issues at hand which are:

    1. Complete lack of cyber warfare doctrine and preparedness.
    2. Complete lack of information warfare doctrine and preparedness.
    3. The integrity of the Office of the President of the United States.
    4. The integrity of the Judicial System of the United States.

    Anyone who's actually been paying attention to what's been going on is obsessing about the 4 items above and not Russia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vonStauffenberg View Post
    The Yanks really have a serious mental health problem when it comes to Russia. It seems the be all and end all. It's obsessive.
    It can make me laugh at times, other times pull my hair out (metaphorically speaking) but they are obsessed. Let me give you a couple of examples. Bush told Gorbachev that NATO would not move one inch to the East if they allowed Germany to unify within NATO.

    Now imagine being Russian. An anti Russian coalition of armies and Germany had twice invaded Russia with intention of destroying and Russia said 'ok, if you give us your word we will trust you' and what happened. NATO rapidly started expanding East to surround Russia. U.S response when NATO expanded was the ask the U.S what they were playing at and the response was pretty much 'we can't believe you fell for it'

    Then you have currently US and NATO military surrounding Russia, Bill Clinton gets involved in their elections billions funnelled to Yeltsin who then allowed Summers to reshape Russia in capitalist image.

    Somehow after 60 years of the rhetoric the Russians are coming as the US surrounds Russia and rigs its elections the US population still think Russia is the danger.

    I'll use a Walter White quote for reference

    "let me clue you in, America. You not in danger. You are the danger. You think your country opens his door and gets shot, gets its elections rigged? No. you are the country who knocks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    It can make me laugh at times, other times pull my hair out (metaphorically speaking) but they are obsessed. Let me give you a couple of examples. Bush told Gorbachev that NATO would not move one inch to the East if they allowed Germany to unify within NATO.

    Now imagine being Russian. An anti Russian coalition of armies and Germany had twice invaded Russia with intention of destroying and Russia said 'ok, if you give us your word we will trust you' and what happened. NATO rapidly started expanding East to surround Russia. U.S response when NATO expanded was the ask the U.S what they were playing at and the response was pretty much 'we can't believe you fell for it'

    Then you have currently US and NATO military surrounding Russia, Bill Clinton gets involved in their elections billions funnelled to Yeltsin who then allowed Summers to reshape Russia in capitalist image.

    Somehow after 60 years of the rhetoric the Russians are coming as the US surrounds Russia and rigs its elections the US population still think Russia is the danger.

    I'll use a Walter White quote for reference

    "let me clue you in, America. You not in danger. You are the danger. You think your country opens his door and gets shot, gets its elections rigged? No. you are the country who knocks!
    Like I've said on a few prior occasions, any country with the power to expand will expand. If NATO was not expanding its influence East, Russia would be expanding its influence West. In fact, both of these scenarios are playing out in varying degrees as I write this. You speak as though the West has a moral obligation to Russia not to make it feel threatened. It does not. Just like Russia does not have a moral obligation to make the West feel at ease.

    If Russia has figured out how to **** with the elections in NATO countries, that's great for Russia. I fully expect them to use whatever means they have at their disposal to gain an advantage over NATO, and I expect NATO to do the same to Russia. Nations have no morals. Power struggles among nations are as old as human civilization and will continue until human civilization no longer exists. There are no good guys and bad guys here. Only imperfect humans doing imperfect things.

    So, no, I am not obsessed with or scared of Russia. What I am scared of is seeing my country take a huge step towards totalitarianism by turning a blind eye to the assault on its democratic institutions by the sitting President. I am scared that my country does not have a comprehensive cyber and information warfare doctrine and that it is reluctant to develop one because it may damage the sitting president and the party in power by doing so. I am scared that the sitting President has been waging war on the Truth for 2 years without any consequences. There really isn't much more that Russia or any other country can do to America that America already isn't doing to itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    And then you have Kevin McCarthy and Paul Ryan. Who, on tape, said that "I think Putin is paying Trump.' which Ryan quickly said 'This stays here, no leaks, so we know we're a family.'

    When asked about this exchange, both flat out denied it. When they were told they have tapes of it, they quickly said 'Oh, it was a joke.'

    I hope the tapes come out, so we can hear the tone of those words, because they look pretty damning on paper.
    My guess is there aren't any tapes. I think WaP got wind of the conversation and then phrased and sequenced the questioning in such a way as to verify if it took place or not. It seems very likely it did. I mean if WaP had a tape, why question the participants about it? Print and be damned would be just as good.

    The other intriguing point is, why now? Are things beginning to fall apart inside the republican ranks? Republicans who heard this exchange and kept it quiet might become a point of focus for the Special Prosecutor. Does this imply McCarthy's thoughts are right or just someone is playing it safe?
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    The over riding issue here is Trump. Week in week out he is the one making the news. Now this may help his narcissistic nature but it sure doesnt help the USA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    It can make me laugh at times, other times pull my hair out (metaphorically speaking) but they are obsessed. Let me give you a couple of examples. Bush told Gorbachev that NATO would not move one inch to the East if they allowed Germany to unify within NATO.

    Now imagine being Russian. An anti Russian coalition of armies and Germany had twice invaded Russia with intention of destroying and Russia said 'ok, if you give us your word we will trust you' and what happened. NATO rapidly started expanding East to surround Russia. U.S response when NATO expanded was the ask the U.S what they were playing at and the response was pretty much 'we can't believe you fell for it'


    Then you have currently US and NATO military surrounding Russia, Bill Clinton gets involved in their elections billions funnelled to Yeltsin who then allowed Summers to reshape Russia in capitalist image.

    Somehow after 60 years of the rhetoric the Russians are coming as the US surrounds Russia and rigs its elections the US population still think Russia is the danger.

    I'll use a Walter White quote for reference

    "let me clue you in, America. You not in danger. You are the danger. You think your country opens his door and gets shot, gets its elections rigged? No. you are the country who knocks!
    Not to mention Rocky's fight with that evil Lundgren fella

    Da da da da da da da, Risin Up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Not to mention Rocky's fight with that evil Lundgren fella

    Da da da da da da da, Risin Up!
    Living in America...huh
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    Living in America...huh
    Frontiers mentality and DNA in a time of no more frontiers. It ain't easy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Not to mention Rocky's fight with that evil Lundgren fella

    Da da da da da da da, Risin Up!
    The ultimate irony about Rocky is he's an immigrant symbol for the Republicans. You just can't keep this white guy down. Everything is against him but his morals are beyond question. In Rocky he has to slap down a bigger, stronger black man who underestimates the white man's heart.

    In Rocky II the impeccable white man doesn't want to fight, he's seriously injured but the loudmouth black man won't take it. He insults Rocky, calls him a coward, makes fun of him but the white man is above that. Rocky just wanted to know if he took Apollo's best (which wasn't good enough to beat the white man and he did.

    Mickey doesn't want to train Rocky (does Mickey ever?) because these white trainers don't care about money it is about the heart, the honour. The black man goes too far and insults the white man on TV. This slander infuriates the old white men and they team up again.

    Rocky can't train though. His wife in a coma after labour. This poor white FAMILY man. By his wife's side he doesn't care about the fight until she wakes and gives him her blessing to fight. Now the white man like a miracle will whip himself into shape in a 12 day camp. Th black man is so boastful, over in two rounds. That white man will show you loudmouth black guy. Unable to fight southpaw he has to fight orthodox. He gets beaten up trying to protect his eye but he goes 'old school' back to southpaw and boom they knock each other down. Yet only the white man gets up. Old white power.

    Rocky III. Another loudmouth black guy. He's cruel, dangerous and he insults Rocky. The old white man is above this. He calls Rocky a coward. The white man is above this. Then he makes a sexual reference to his wife. Too far black man, too far. Nobody insults a Republican (I mean old white mans) wife. Now you will see how old white men dance. What I say next is not made up. The old white man (Mickey) calls the black man hungry, an animal and tells Rocky he's 'too civilised' I swear this is not made up.

    The black man kills (accidentally but that barely matters) the old white man trainer. Out of focus, the white man loses his fight. Understandable. He wasn't the worse fighter, the less talented compared to the black man he was distracted. Apollo trains Rocky (see even black men dislike other black men and how crude they are they love white superiority really) and something incredible happens. Despite the fact science has proven black men have different muscle density and bone structure and they run quicker that's not the real reason.

    The real reason is the white man didn't know how to run. A few sprints along the beach with a black man and the white man is actually quicker. We're so great the old white folk. Let's go 'old school' and chase chickens (ok). Old school white power. So rocky ends up dispatching of Clubber Lang in the rematch as he dances and masters the art of boxing in a week.

    Now Rocky IV. Rocky is a family man. He's also forgiving he and the black man are now close friends. They have a bigger enemy. Russia. Despite the white man being 5ft 8 and Drago being 6ft 5 that's not in any way meant to scare Americans. The fact he's blonde when most Russian men are not blonde isn't to make him look like a Nazi with that strict hair cut (they had to get Swede Dolph Lundgren to play Drago) i mean his wife (blonde danish actress Bridgete Nielson who is 6ft 1 not wearing heels) that's not meant to make you think Russians are Nazi looking blondes whose women can crush poor US men at all.

    Then see the technology. Poor America they get by running up steps, punching cattle, chasing chickens, they are primitive. These Russians though? Wow, they have genetically engineered huge humanoids, strapped to machines, injected with steroids (the irony of Stallone isn't lose on me here) but of course you cannot compete with 'old school' white old man power. In his late 70's by now surely Stallone runs up mountains, lifts logs, yes the days of old are coming back America. Fast forward old white man gets beaten but can't be kept down but smashes Russian down also. Black men, they never get up when you knock them down but Russians are white they get up a few times but they cannot live with old white power of america.

    In Rocky V old white power has a new enemy. Young white people. You see they have the talent but low and behold the young white prodigy is corrupted by a loudmouth black promoter. Money, music, women, damn you Beyonce! Damn you Kanye! corrupting our poor white kids with dreams of being a success with your animal nature and obsession with fame and money. The young white man turns against the old white man. The old white Republican power just want to be the nations father. They're just looking out for the young white man but he won't listen the black man has corrupted his mind.

    The old white man doesn't want to fight but he's forced to. Now it's time to go old school(is there any other school in Rocky that works?). No more ring, let's take it to the street. The old white man has had enough of these insults and he is forced to defend his honour and he starts going 'street' on the kids. Look at him move. This pensioner rolls on the floor, trips, he can break dance this old white guy can do anything. Then he smashes young white guy before punching loudmouth black guy promoter one final time in the face. Yes, old white men rule!

    Rocky, Trump, O Reilly......................they're the same. Old white men, with nothing on their minds but trying to help the black man, the young white man, the black man, the black man, the Russian. They just want to teach them some manners. Some respect. You forced us old white guys to teach you a lesson. If you'd just listened to us, acted more like us we wouldn't have had to slap you around and punish you.

    That's pretty much the Rocky story. The most ironic story in history an immigrant playing the part of the Republican, religious, old white man, who loves his family and is forced to slap some respect into multiple loudmouth black men, the kids of today and Russia.

    Just remember the next time you're watching Rocky that this is the story of the republican party.
    Last edited by Coach791; 19-5-17 at 13:44.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Not to mention Rocky's fight with that evil Lundgren fella

    Da da da da da da da, Risin Up!
    And you thought it was just a throw away line about America and Russia!

    Kinek Coach?
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  18. #2508  
    lfcstlouis is online now Caution advised, may not be actual saint
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    Literally everyone knows that Rocky IV was a propaganda film against Russia. I watched it in school and had a lesson plan pointing out all the propaganda.

    This is school boy stuff coach.
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    Shriekback is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by lfcstlouis View Post
    Literally everyone knows that Rocky IV was a propaganda film against Russia. I watched it in school and had a lesson plan pointing out all the propaganda.

    This is school boy stuff coach.
    It was a propaganda film but it worked both ways, they did allow the Russian's to have their say “You have this belief that you are better than us. You have this belief that your country is so very good and we are so very bad. You have this belief that you are fair and we are so very cruel.” Following these thought-provoking comments, another Drago representative screamed: “It’s all lies and false propaganda to support this antagonistic and violent government!”

    Its wasn't a full blown propaganda film like that John Wayne film 'The Green Berets'
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    Rocky IV isn't propaganda. Rocky fights Drago simply to avenge Apollo, who was only using patriotism/jingoism as a means of escaping retirement. Ultimately he wanted to die in the ring, which is why he told Rocky to not stop the fight for any reason. Even the Soviet delegation were reasonably respectful until Apollo and Paulie started to antagonise them by mouthing off. By the end of the fight, even Drago says he's fighting for himself rather than being a political tool. The Soviet crowd starts cheering for Rocky out of sheer respect for the guy's determination and spirit. Then the film ends with Rocky appealing for peace and understanding between the USA and USSR.
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    If we're looking to draw parallels between Trump and movies, I think maybe this is a better choice:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117768/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
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    As I've said before, the best fictional depiction of Trump's presidency is the "garbage man" episode of the Simpsons. Trump is basically Homer in that one.
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    dreams-come-true is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Star Line View Post
    Rocky IV isn't propaganda. Rocky fights Drago simply to avenge Apollo, who was only using patriotism/jingoism as a means of escaping retirement. Ultimately he wanted to die in the ring, which is why he told Rocky to not stop the fight for any reason. Even the Soviet delegation were reasonably respectful until Apollo and Paulie started to antagonise them by mouthing off. By the end of the fight, even Drago says he's fighting for himself rather than being a political tool. The Soviet crowd starts cheering for Rocky out of sheer respect for the guy's determination and spirit. Then the film ends with Rocky appealing for peace and understanding between the USA and USSR.
    Not propaganda but the 5ft 8 American, primitive training methods uses his 'heart' or the heart of America to overcome a 6ft 5 technologically advanced Russian giant and defeats Russia. So great is the small American's spirit that the Russian now cheer for the American. After defeating the Russian (note after not before) the victor (America) appeals for peace. Little America goes to Russia and so great is American spirit they beat Russia's biggest and best and all for peace.

    That's absolutely not propaganda you're right White
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Star Line View Post
    Rocky IV isn't propaganda. Rocky fights Drago simply to avenge Apollo, who was only using patriotism/jingoism as a means of escaping retirement. Ultimately he wanted to die in the ring, which is why he told Rocky to not stop the fight for any reason. Even the Soviet delegation were reasonably respectful until Apollo and Paulie started to antagonise them by mouthing off. By the end of the fight, even Drago says he's fighting for himself rather than being a political tool. The Soviet crowd starts cheering for Rocky out of sheer respect for the guy's determination and spirit. Then the film ends with Rocky appealing for peace and understanding between the USA and USSR.
    Nearly all American films are propaganda films - Rocky - Stars Wars - the list goes on.... Doesn't mean they ain't watchable
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shriekback View Post
    It was a propaganda film but it worked both ways, they did allow the Russian's to have their say “You have this belief that you are better than us. You have this belief that your country is so very good and we are so very bad. You have this belief that you are fair and we are so very cruel.” Following these thought-provoking comments, another Drago representative screamed: “It’s all lies and false propaganda to support this antagonistic and violent government!”

    Its wasn't a full blown propaganda film like that John Wayne film 'The Green Berets'
    I think we should have a Rocky hidden message thread The question seems though provoking now reading the script. You believe you are better than us. You are good and fair and we are cruel.

    That would be thought provoking had they not just shown a 5ft 8 American overcoming all odds and smashing a Russian giant to the point Russians chant for the American. Had they not shown American women as warm, Russian women as cruel. They showed Drago taking drugs and Rocky (American) training 'fair' and they showed Drago standing over Apollo's twitching corpse and saying 'if he dies, he dies' straight after Apollo entered singing Livin' in America with star spangled banners, dancing and entertaining the crowd with joy and happiness.

    It wasn't a title fight Drago killed him in an exhibition. Every part of the film is designed to make you say yes America is good, fair and Russia is bad cheats and cruel. In fact the only human moment you see from the Russian is after America had slapped him silly. Only then did he learn.

    The interesting question who would play Trump is the certain upcoming Trump movie/TV Series?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Nearly all American films are propaganda films - Rocky - Stars Wars - the list goes on.... Doesn't mean they ain't watchable
    The irony is in Rocky, Star Wars the heroes are the 'little guys' not the big bullies. The reality is that if you translate Star Wars to terrorism, the terrorists are Luke and Han. Limited technology, suffered from rule of the Evil Empire, a few rebels fighting back.

    The irony is incredible that so many Brits, Americans cheer for the rebels when we're actually on the side of the Empire. Now trust me that doesn't mean I support terrorism, movies show rebels in a very ideological light but that is essentially the sides.

    Consider it this way..................When the Death Star blew up did you cry for those that died on board? I'm sure the Death Star was full of innocent people, just doing a job who had no real problem with the Rebels but the Empire offered a salary and they had kids to feed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    The irony is in Rocky, Star Wars the heroes are the 'little guys' not the big bullies. The reality is that if you translate Star Wars to terrorism, the terrorists are Luke and Han. Limited technology, suffered from rule of the Evil Empire, a few rebels fighting back.

    The irony is incredible that so many Brits, Americans cheer for the rebels when we're actually on the side of the Empire. Now trust me that doesn't mean I support terrorism, movies show rebels in a very ideological light but that is essentially the sides.

    Consider it this way..................When the Death Star blew up did you cry for those that died on board? I'm sure the Death Star was full of innocent people, just doing a job who had no real problem with the Rebels but the Empire offered a salary and they had kids to feed.
    Thats where most have it wrong - when things escalate to war - there is no crime - war is about death, numbers and victory.........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach791 View Post
    Not propaganda but the 5ft 8 American, primitive training methods uses his 'heart' or the heart of America to overcome a 6ft 5 technologically advanced Russian giant and defeats Russia. So great is the small American's spirit that the Russian now cheer for the American. After defeating the Russian (note after not before) the victor (America) appeals for peace. Little America goes to Russia and so great is American spirit they beat Russia's biggest and best and all for peace.

    That's absolutely not propaganda you're right White
    Self belief/conviction story lines are commonplace. David and Goliath story lines even more so. Throw in some red white and blue and there you go. Playing to the crowd.

    Helps put more bums on seats rather than any kind of propaganda.

    Hollywood does other kinds of movies that aren't very kind to the USA as well.
    Last edited by Luises-Finger; 20-5-17 at 11:32.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Nearly all American films are propaganda films - Rocky - Stars Wars - the list goes on.... Doesn't mean they ain't watchable
    Rambo, Ellen Brockovich, All the Presidents Men, American Gangster, Godfather, Untouchables.

    As you say, all enjoyable.
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