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Thread: FSG - Excellent, Poor or Indifferent? Play it again Sam..

  1. #1 Mighty Red FSG - Excellent, Poor or Indifferent? Play it again Sam.. 
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    Nothing has changed. We sit in the box seat as we watch our squad getting smaller and younger as well as in desperate need of a whole new spine in the team. Everybody knows it needs decent investment.

    Here's a couple things that annoy me about their ownership:-

    New stand - addressing the stadium issue was part of the conditions on the purchase of the club. After exploring all avenues they made their move. Got planning and then lent money to the club to fund a new stand. So what we have is a 120m loan that has to be paid back in 5 years to FSG. It will use the clubs own income to pay back that loan. Just bear in mind for a minute that when they do eventually leave they will recoup this. Also bear in mind the term of the loan is most likely fixed and if the new stand isn't making enough to repay the loan payments it's going to have to come from somewhere, right?! Yep, the clubs annual budget looks like a solid bet.

    ARE - the whole ticket price statement in relation to the Annie road end redevelopment was distasteful. Showed how out of touch they are with the City. And at the moment looks like a dead duck.

    Recruitment - this is by far the most annoying aspect of their ownership for me. Moneyball or however you want to describe it, it isn't working - yet the whole football operation is geared towards it (can we have a pulling hair out emoji?).

    Indifferent to poor for me.

    Thoughts guys?
    Last edited by -Seamus-; 6-3-17 at 17:08. Reason: Thought the stand loan was interest free.
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  2. #2  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    New thread...same rules apply...keep it civil.

    Cheers.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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  3. #3  
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    Thing are getting worse by the season, yes we went close with BR when we had Luis, but instead of building on this achievement, we did the opposite.

    The owners seem happy to just keep plodding along while seemingly doing the bare minimum to keep us going.

    We have a shining Light in the form of Jurgen Klopp, but it seems obvious that other things within the club needed changing as well as the manager, but instead we gave Mike Edwards a promotion...

    We might have turned a corner recently, Mane and Matip were both pretty decent signings, but Klopp will need to follow this up in the summer with more of the same or I fear that a lot of fans will start turning against him.
    Last edited by MrDilkington; 5-3-17 at 17:38.
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  4. #4  
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    Fans turning against Klopp. . Things getting worse by the season. . . Yep same fairy tales in the new thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Paper accounting isn't really representative of how the business is doing...as you know.

    The most important figures are what revenues we received and what we paid out.

    As long as the accounts don't get us into trouble with FFP, then those loss/profit figures don't mean much.
    Yes, I do know, so why are you talking to me as if I don't? I've been reading the accounts in depth for some time and I know what I'm looking at.

    The important figures of revenues received and money paid out are worse than previously and much worse than I expected.

    It's not just about FFP, it's about whether we're meeting self sufficiency targets and generating surplus cash for transfers and to increase wages, or requiring ongoing investment. We're doing much worse than I'd hoped.
    Last edited by ***Stuzzza***; 5-3-17 at 17:47.
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  6. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by canookiewookie View Post
    Fans turning against Klopp. . Things getting worse by the season. . . Yep same fairy tales in the new thread.
    Hoẃ is it a fairy tale ?
    No cup final this year
    Less money on the books
    and although it is far too soon to judge there have been fans turning agianst klopp already
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    Last edited by GrottonRed; 5-3-17 at 22:41. Reason: calm down
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    Hoẃ is it a fairy tale ?
    No cup final this year
    Less money on the books
    and although it is far too soon to judge there have been fans turning agianst klopp already
    A foundation needs to be built and its will take 10 years to see the result of FSGs planning .
    It took the Shieks 5 years to build Citys into a respected club on the global stage ( even with their money).
    Steps..
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    Quote Originally Posted by rederman View Post
    A foundation needs to be built and its will take 10 years to see the result of FSGs planning .
    It took the Shieks 5 years to build Citys into a respected club on the global stage ( even with their money).
    Steps..
    I hope you are right, but the have been here nearly 7 years already, its not like we have not been patient.
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    and although it is far too soon to judge there have been fans turning agianst klopp already
    Is that a sign of a problem with the club, the owners, the manager/coach or with the fans and their expectations?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home_and_Away View Post
    Is that a sign of a problem with the club, the owners, the manager/coach or with the fans and their expectations?
    No idea whatsoever,
    I wrote that as an answer to another poster that claimed I was telling fairy tales.
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  12. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    I hope you are right, but the have been here nearly 7 years already, its not like we have not been patient.
    Are you a 'fan' of LFC because they are LFC come rain or shine or are you a 'fan' searching for a club that gives you what you feel entitled to?
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  13. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home_and_Away View Post
    Are you a 'fan' of LFC because they are LFC come rain or shine or are you a 'fan' searching for a club that gives you what you feel entitled to?
    Im a supporter and I have been since the 80s, I dont feel entitled at all but I would like to see us win something once more.
    There is nothing wrong with questioning why things are not going well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***Stuzzza*** View Post
    Yes, I do know, so why are you talking to me as if I don't? I've been reading the accounts in depth for some time and I know what I'm looking at.

    The important figures of revenues received and money paid out are worse than previously and much worse than I expected.

    It's not just about FFP, it's about whether we're meeting self sufficiency targets and generating surplus cash for transfers and to increase wages, or requiring ongoing investment. We're doing much worse than I'd hoped.
    I agree with you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    I hope you are right, but the have been here nearly 7 years already, its not like we have not been patient.
    Like I mentioned previous topics.

    We have been run very poorly as a business for past 20 + years, which has not left us with not capability of competing with the rich clubs like United who have a long-term business plan

    Plus the fact we've had real mix bag of poor appointment of Managers in that time period.

    So since the rebranding of the Premier League we had to start rebuilding the first team because the old team was falling apart and it's been a knock on effect

    because of poor managers buying poor players and still not buying the correct players so we had to being a recycle process

    FSG don't have the oozing cash flow like Chelsea and City owners, which means that we can't compete with buying the best players like they can

    I can't bring up links on my phone so I can't show the financial problem we had prior to them and the progress with made financial since with them.

    The commercially made us a better product, getting better sponsorships and so on.

    Making Anfield a 50000 stadium, looking to turn are two training facilities in one as well as requiring more land to expand I training facilities.

    What done wrong hiring poor CEOs , directors, poor handling of Dalglish, appointing Rodgers.

    So slowly seeing the Blossom side of the business model, now we got Klopp i can see as blossoming on the pitch as well
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  16. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    Im a supporter and I have been since the 80s, I dont feel entitled at all but I would like to see us win something once more.
    There is nothing wrong with questioning why things are not going well.
    Ah! But that's where the sense of entitlement kicks in... On what basis does one believe "things are not going well"? There are 1,000s of clubs in the UK. All have their supporters, all have their own way of doing things. How many of those 1,000s of clubs and millions of supporters can claim to have never dropped out of the top 10 in the country since you started to support LFC?

    "Doing well" is relative. And one can only believe that things "are not going well" if the yardstick is being number one and only number one.

    Whilst I would love to see LFC back as number one in the country, in Europe and the world, I do not feel the club is doing badly if it doesn't achieve that unique spot. Nor do I question the owners, the manager or the players and pretend that somehow I know better how to do things and/or complain about the situation. Why? Becacause I do not feel entitled to the owners giving me what I think is the benchmark or the criteria I decide.
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  17. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home_and_Away View Post
    Ah! But that's where the sense of entitlement kicks in... On what basis does one believe "things are not going well"? There are 1,000s of clubs in the UK. All have their supporters, all have their own way of doing things. How many of those 1,000s of clubs and millions of supporters can claim to have never dropped out of the top 10 in the country since you started to support LFC?

    "Doing well" is relative. And one can only believe that things "are not going well" if the yardstick is being number one and only number one.

    Whilst I would love to see LFC back as number one in the country, in Europe and the world, I do not feel the club is doing badly if it doesn't achieve that unique spot. Nor do I question the owners, the manager or the players and pretend that somehow I know better how to do things and/or complain about the situation. Why? Becacause I do not feel entitled to the owners giving me what I think is the benchmark or the criteria I decide.
    There is no entitlement here, you are assuming.
    I would love us to be the number one club again but I do not think that is going to happen anytime soon, I would however like to see us do well in a cup and qualify for champions league on a regular basis.
    I do not think that is too much to ask for considering we were one of the top ten earning football clubs in Europe last year.

    At no point have I assumed that I know better than anyone involved either, more assumptions, there is nothing wrong with questioning how things are going or doubting the people involved.
    This is, after all, a forum for football discussion and this is a thread about the owners, we are all entitled to our opinions.
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  18. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home_and_Away View Post
    Ah! But that's where the sense of entitlement kicks in... On what basis does one believe "things are not going well"? There are 1,000s of clubs in the UK. All have their supporters, all have their own way of doing things. How many of those 1,000s of clubs and millions of supporters can claim to have never dropped out of the top 10 in the country since you started to support LFC?

    "Doing well" is relative. And one can only believe that things "are not going well" if the yardstick is being number one and only number one.

    Whilst I would love to see LFC back as number one in the country, in Europe and the world, I do not feel the club is doing badly if it doesn't achieve that unique spot. Nor do I question the owners, the manager or the players and pretend that somehow I know better how to do things and/or complain about the situation. Why? Becacause I do not feel entitled to the owners giving me what I think is the benchmark or the criteria I decide.
    Very well written.
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  19. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    There is no entitlement here, you are assuming.
    I would love us to be the number one club again but I do not think that is going to happen anytime soon, I would however like to see us do well in a cup and qualify for champions league on a regular basis.
    I do not think that is too much to ask for considering we were one of the top ten earning football clubs in Europe last year.

    At no point have I assumed that I know better than anyone involved either, more assumptions, there is nothing wrong with questioning how things are going or doubting the people involved.
    This is, after all, a forum for football discussion and this is a thread about the owners.
    Why are you taking my words so personally and being so defensive? As you point out, it's an open discussion about the situation the club is in.

    I responded to one of your posts that you then defended by saying it was a commentary about 'other people' rather than your own thoughts. Since then I have posted using the third person "one" to discuss those same 'other people' that you commented upon.

    However, to respond to one of your comments and one of your beliefs, "I do not think that is too much to ask for considering...", I disagree. Until such time as a fan starts putting serious money on the table to pay for all the upgrades and changes they feel are needed, to actually have a real stake in the running of the club, the decisions made and the results achieved, then I do believe it is indeed too much to ask for, to demand, to expect or to feel entitled to anything. Anything at all. The club is not entitled to a trophy this year or next. Or ever. Similarly, the fan is not entotled to anything at all. On the other hand, a fan can hope and/or dream for whatever they want. So, in my opinion, any fan who thinks it is correct and proper to ask for, demand or expect the owners to act in a manner to deliver what they hope for, is living a bit surreally.
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  20. #20  
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    Fsg are ok but will spend as little as they can get away with, this summer they really need to loosen the purse strings big time and let Klopp bring in top talent.
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  21. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home_and_Away View Post
    Why are you taking my words so personally and being so defensive? As you point out, it's an open discussion about the situation the club is in.

    I responded to one of your posts that you then defended by saying it was a commentary about 'other people' rather than your own thoughts. Since then I have posted using the third person "one" to discuss those same 'other people' that you commented upon.

    However, to respond to one of your comments and one of your beliefs, "I do not think that is too much to ask for considering...", I disagree. Until such time as a fan starts putting serious money on the table to pay for all the upgrades and changes they feel are needed, to actually have a real stake in the running of the club, the decisions made and the results achieved, then I do believe it is indeed too much to ask for, to demand, to expect or to feel entitled to anything. Anything at all. The club is not entitled to a trophy this year or next. Or ever. Similarly, the fan is not entotled to anything at all. On the other hand, a fan can hope and/or dream for whatever they want. So, in my opinion, any fan who thinks it is correct and proper to ask for, demand or expect the owners to act in a manner to deliver what they hope for, is living a bit surreally.
    Damn. That is another fine written piece of work there.
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  22. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldiogs View Post
    Fsg are ok but will spend as little as they can get away with, this summer they really need to loosen the purse strings big time and let Klopp bring in top talent.
    Indeed.
    As I have said numerous times before, I think we may have actually turned a corner, despite using what seems to be a pretty poor transfer strategy, and making some pretty backwards decisions like promoting that Edwards chap.
    We did actually make a couple of decent signings last summer and it we can keep it up this summer, then I hope we can come on even more.

    I do find it hard to stay away from this FSG thread, despite saying I will leave it alone, It just keeps pulling me back !
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  23. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home_and_Away View Post
    Ah! But that's where the sense of entitlement kicks in... On what basis does one believe "things are not going well"? There are 1,000s of clubs in the UK. All have their supporters, all have their own way of doing things. How many of those 1,000s of clubs and millions of supporters can claim to have never dropped out of the top 10 in the country since you started to support LFC?

    "Doing well" is relative. And one can only believe that things "are not going well" if the yardstick is being number one and only number one.

    Whilst I would love to see LFC back as number one in the country, in Europe and the world, I do not feel the club is doing badly if it doesn't achieve that unique spot. Nor do I question the owners, the manager or the players and pretend that somehow I know better how to do things and/or complain about the situation. Why? Becacause I do not feel entitled to the owners giving me what I think is the benchmark or the criteria I decide.
    Don't start posting sense in here. You'll be run out of town in a hurry by the deadwood/garbage brigade.
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  24. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    Indeed.
    As I have said numerous times before, I think we may have actually turned a corner, despite using what seems to be a pretty poor transfer strategy, we and making some pretty backwards decisions like promoting thaat Edwards chap.
    We did actually make a couple of decent signings last summer and it we can keep it up this summer, then I hope we can come on even more.

    I do find it hard to stay away from this FSG thread, despite saying I will leave it alone, It just keeps pulling me back !
    I'm the opposite I just stay away.
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  25. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck33 View Post
    Don't start posting sense in here. You'll be run out of town in a hurry by the deadwood/garbage brigade.
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  26. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouldiogs View Post
    I'm the opposite I just stay away.
    Haha

    I will try again now, I make no promises.
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  27. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    There is no entitlement here, you are assuming.
    I would love us to be the number one club again but I do not think that is going to happen anytime soon, I would however like to see us do well in a cup and qualify for champions league on a regular basis.
    I do not think that is too much to ask for considering we were one of the top ten earning football clubs in Europe last year.

    At no point have I assumed that I know better than anyone involved either, more assumptions, there is nothing wrong with questioning how things are going or doubting the people involved.
    This is, after all, a forum for football discussion and this is a thread about the owners, we are all entitled to our opinions.
    Dilk I'm back. See they have given us another thread. I am working on a new title for the Thread like the Power of the LFC Supporters Voice.

    I think Home and Away said something very relevant in his last sentence. This in my view is wrong. nobody is talking about entitlement we are talking about change, and how our voice can be heard effectively to bring about change.
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  28. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrDilkington View Post
    Haha

    I will try again now, I make no promises.
    I had only 4 posts in last thread, I've already got 4 in this one.
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  29. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Home_and_Away View Post
    Why are you taking my words so personally and being so defensive? As you point out, it's an open discussion about the situation the club is in.

    I responded to one of your posts that you then defended by saying it was a commentary about 'other people' rather than your own thoughts. Since then I have posted using the third person "one" to discuss those same 'other people' that you commented upon.

    However, to respond to one of your comments and one of your beliefs, "I do not think that is too much to ask for considering...", I disagree. Until such time as a fan starts putting serious money on the table to pay for all the upgrades and changes they feel are needed, to actually have a real stake in the running of the club, the decisions made and the results achieved, then I do believe it is indeed too much to ask for, to demand, to expect or to feel entitled to anything. Anything at all. The club is not entitled to a trophy this year or next. Or ever. Similarly, the fan is not entotled to anything at all. On the other hand, a fan can hope and/or dream for whatever they want. So, in my opinion, any fan who thinks it is correct and proper to ask for, demand or expect the owners to act in a manner to deliver what they hope for, is living a bit surreally.
    This and your previous are very good posts. I'm pretty sure a lot of clubs' fans would kill to be top 8 in the country for 60 years straight. If you aren't there then you're certainly not competing for even better after all. Our chances of winning the PL this year aren't spectacular at this point but they're better than Newcastle, Villa, et al ever had.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bri_Bates View Post
    This and your previous are very good posts. I'm pretty sure a lot of clubs' fans would kill to be top 8 in the country for 60 years straight. If you aren't there then you're certainly not competing for even better after all. Our chances of winning the PL this year aren't spectacular at this point but they're better than Newcastle, Villa, et al ever had.
    But we aren't Newcastle or Villa.
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