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Thread: Scottish Independence...2nd Referendum?

  1. #151  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundaypost View Post
    How many times. The treasury has accepted liability for all of the debt should Scotland become independent. I'm not saying they wouldn't take some on as a gesture of goodwill but terms like default and refuse to pay do not apply.

    You're putting words in my mouth. I said many economists don't take GERS seriously.

    Take off your independence hating glasses and look at what the SNP has done when in Scottish Government objectively. Do you honestly believe what they have done since taking over from labour has not been, in the main, good for Scotland and it's people? I'm not talking about the independence part just the stuff I mentioned in my last post. Do you really believe labour were running Scotland better? Do you honestly think the tories would have done any of that? They're in their third term now surely they must be doing something right. Crime in Scotland is at a 42 year low, police Scotland can't be that much of a fiasco. There's been a spike in English doctors applying for jobs within the Scottish NHS, doesn't that point to the Scottish NHS being run better than down south?

    How on earth do you know that Nicola Sturgeon spends more time plotting independence than running the country apart from hearing it said in the media? Up until the last week or two labour and the tories were banging on about it far far more than the SNP were. Do you think that's acceptable?

    I don't support the SNP because I read wings over Scotland, I support them because I believe that they are governing my country far better, far more fairly and with far less scapegoating and punishing of the poor, the disabled and immigrants than I would ever trust the tories or labour to do.
    The SNP are the stereotypical populists - after decades of failure, they understand the importance of keeping key parts of the population onside as it the best way to further their aspirations for Independence.. When you stop fawning and scrutinise what they do in any detail, you will quickly see they can do no wrong.. Austerity - Blame Westminster.. Oil boom - Blame Westminster.. Oil collapse - Blame Westminster.. NHS - Blame Westminster.. Education - Blame Westminster.. Tatties too hard - Blame Westminster.. No government in the history of the world has had it so easy.. we are effectively a one party state - and yet they still manage to shift the blame.. They have made the narrative all about Westminster and the evil UK government - listen to them, every sentence they utter contain one or more of the usual buzzwords - Tories - London - Austerity - they control the narrative up here and we have fallen for it hook, line and sinker..

    Question time last night was a prime example.. the SNP representative was as comfortable as could be when criticisng Tory policy, Brexit, etc.. but the minute someone took her out of her comfort zone - i.e. Currency - she completely lost her composure to the point the audience were laughing at her.. This is exactly what I mean - they control the overall narrative of the argument, but when called out on the important detail they stutter and blather.. They have no clue what comes next, they only know what comes now..

    Oh, a wee word about austerity.. look how the EU (Germany) 'helps' countries that break their strict deficit rules.. Careful what we wish for..
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  2. #152  
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    Why not see what deal we have with Europe then let the Scots have referendum.
    I'm thinking Sturgeon is worried we might actually get a good deal and the Scots wanna stay with UK so she's pushing for referendum without knowing the outcome of the UK-Europe deal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaze31 View Post
    Why not see what deal we have with Europe then let the Scots have referendum.
    I'm thinking Sturgeon is worried we might actually get a good deal and the Scots wanna stay with UK so she's pushing for referendum without knowing the outcome of the UK-Europe deal.
    No - she has no regard for the rest of the UK or scots that want to remain. She is timing it, along with rhetoric that stirs up hatred for the sole goal of independence. If it hurts UK-EU negotiations then all the better as far as she is concerned. TM should maybe call her bluff. NS seems incapable of seeing it from a UK view.

    Nicola's argument that a deal must be done in 18 months is silly too. (a) Not only has she said countless times it is unlikely, and we cannot be sure a deal will be done, and we should at least give it the 2 years (else we have a clock ticking and a gun to our head which EU negotiators will use) and (b) a referendum would distract from important negotiations with the EU and she is hoping that with westminister's attention elsewhere she can focus completely on her message of independence unopposed, and (c) she will be denying the scots the information they need to make an informed decision - even an agreed deal is not 'the deal' until ratified by EU (all 3 pillars) and UK (and if not ratified and a NO vote then 'material situation has changed and another referendum' will be called).
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    I do find it bemusing that the scots want independence and are asking the people they want independence from to sanction a vote on it!

    Can you imagine the yanks back in their precious war of independence asking the king to sanction a petition asking if they can be decolonised! Or maybe it's just the scots couldn't organise it, wouldn't bode well for being independent!

    But in all seriousness, well maybe not, can we non scots vote them out? Make it more like Big Brother, then get the Mexicans in to build rebuild Hadrian's wall. Maybe they could build a wall around the (rest of the) UK at the same time and brick up the channel tunnel at both ends!



    All sounds a bit amateurish from Nicola Fish anyway, why not do opinion polls or an official petition to present evidence to support her perception the scots (in scotland although I'm guessing those living here also get to vote) want out/independence otherwise I can see why it would be blocked. I went to my former boss once to state a colleague had barely done any work that day, she challenged it so I presented evidence and she asked why I had been looking at it. I confirmed it is stupid to make a claim you can't substantiate beyond your own opinion/perception as evidence, you'd think some overpaid MP would have enough sense to not just request something happened reasonably recently and failed without some kind of proof it could produce a different outcome.
    People will believe what they want to believe
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    "Material change"

    That's the new buzzphrase. Apparently Scotland needs another referendum because Britain is leaving the EU....even though the SNP wanted independence even when the UK was in the EU.
    Last edited by White Star Line; 17-3-17 at 19:26.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerrard-2005 View Post
    The SNP are the stereotypical populists - after decades of failure, they understand the importance of keeping key parts of the population onside as it the best way to further their aspirations for Independence.. When you stop fawning and scrutinise what they do in any detail, you will quickly see they can do no wrong.. Austerity - Blame Westminster.. Oil boom - Blame Westminster.. Oil collapse - Blame Westminster.. NHS - Blame Westminster.. Education - Blame Westminster.. Tatties too hard - Blame Westminster.. No government in the history of the world has had it so easy.. we are effectively a one party state - and yet they still manage to shift the blame.. They have made the narrative all about Westminster and the evil UK government - listen to them, every sentence they utter contain one or more of the usual buzzwords - Tories - London - Austerity - they control the narrative up here and we have fallen for it hook, line and sinker..

    Question time last night was a prime example.. the SNP representative was as comfortable as could be when criticisng Tory policy, Brexit, etc.. but the minute someone took her out of her comfort zone - i.e. Currency - she completely lost her composure to the point the audience were laughing at her.. This is exactly what I mean - they control the overall narrative of the argument, but when called out on the important detail they stutter and blather.. They have no clue what comes next, they only know what comes now..

    Oh, a wee word about austerity.. look how the EU (Germany) 'helps' countries that break their strict deficit rules.. Careful what we wish for..
    I'm not quite sure why the SNP would be blaming westminster for an oil boom but I'll answer the rest of your post.

    This type of stuff from unionists never fails to amaze me and it's always delivered without a hint of irony too. You throw all sorts of stuff at the SNP yet conveniently completely overlook the fact that the government you want us to stay tied to is guilty of exactly the things you're so up in arms about the SNP doing. Look at what you've written here and apply it to the UK government. Austerity - Blame immigrants and people on benefits and the sick and disabled...Oil collapse - Blame the SNP...NHS - Blame immigrants and the sick and disabled and the elderly...Education - Blame immigrants and people on benefits. And try getting any unionist politician to give us a straight answer on Brexit. I'm sure that would get a good laugh too.

    At least when the SNP blame westminster they are blaming an entity that has actually had a hand in the things they are blaming them for. The UK government on the other hand scapegoats and bullies who they perceive to be the weakest members of society who have had nothing to do with the situation the country is in, in order to distract us from blaming their friends who are the real culprits. What a lovely government that is isn't it? And you want us to remain tied to that???

    How is Scotland a one party state? Do you realise how much power is actually devolved to Scotland? I think it's around 16%. If the SNP is the only party, who's controlling the other 84%?

    Also how on earth does the SNP control the narrative? The entire mainstream media is pro union, including the BBC. Don't you think they control the narrative?

    Can I ask you something? Are you really Scottish? And if so why do you not want good things happening to your own country? I mean you seem genuinely ********** off that we have free prescriptions, free university education, a better performing health service, no bedroom tax etc. What's that about?
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Star Line View Post
    "Material change"

    That's the new buzzphrase. Apparently Scotland needs another referendum because Britain is leaving the EU....even though the SNP wanted independence even when the UK was in the EU.
    meaning they wanted to be an independent nation in the EU. which 'seems' to be what they're arguing for now. Though it may not be so.
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    This is going to get interesting.

    My ideal outcome is the Scottish nation gets its vote and decides to stick with us through brexit. I can't see brexit being easier to deal with without Scotland. We need them imo.

    But the SNP are in the driving seat imo. if May refuses indy ref 2, there'll be a number of Scotts who voted to stay but don't like being told what to do. Just like us and EU. It may cause a more determined push leading to ultimate separation just like us and the EU.

    As brexit gets closer, we can't use the economic fear argument because we'll be busy painting as rosy a picture as possible.

    And in general, there isn't an argument we can use against them that the EU/remainers didn't use and were rejected by the English and Welsh but not the Scotts.

    May has to refuse. But she may have to concede more to the SNP. Canny Scotland.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    This is going to get interesting.

    My ideal outcome is the Scottish nation gets its vote and decides to stick with us through brexit. I can't see brexit being easier to deal with without Scotland. We need them imo.

    But the SNP are in the driving seat imo. if May refuses indy ref 2, there'll be a number of Scotts who voted to stay but don't like being told what to do. Just like us and EU. It may cause a more determined push leading to ultimate separation just like us and the EU.

    As brexit gets closer, we can't use the economic fear argument because we'll be busy painting as rosy a picture as possible.

    And in general, there isn't an argument we can use against them that the EU/remainers didn't use and were rejected by the English and Welsh but not the Scotts.

    May has to refuse. But she may have to concede more to the SNP. Canny Scotland.
    Which in turn Wales and Northern Ireland will want more.

    Gordon Brown speech this morning was certainly interesting, talking about how having a third option the the UK should become a federal state, with the Scottish parliament taking control over fisheries, farming, welfare and far more taxation after EU powers are repatriated to the UK.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    meaning they wanted to be an independent nation in the EU. which 'seems' to be what they're arguing for now. Though it may not be so.
    And they already had a referendum based on that situation, and lost.

    Gordon Brown speech this morning was certainly interesting, talking about how having a third option the the UK should become a federal state, with the Scottish parliament taking control over fisheries, farming, welfare and far more taxation after EU powers are repatriated to the UK.
    It will never be enough for the SNP.
    Last edited by White Star Line; 18-3-17 at 17:42.
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    Was in the boozer when England got beat today. Thought I was in an Irish bar the happiness for the Scots seeing the Sassanarch losing their unbeaten record. Sad but ever so predictable.

    Voting for independence isn't for many a decision to be made on what is good for Scotland, it's cos they hate England. And just so folk understand, it's not hate for individual Englanders, it's chip on the shoulder stuff against their big powerful neighbour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundaypost View Post
    I'm not quite sure why the SNP would be blaming westminster for an oil boom but I'll answer the rest of your post.

    This type of stuff from unionists never fails to amaze me and it's always delivered without a hint of irony too. You throw all sorts of stuff at the SNP yet conveniently completely overlook the fact that the government you want us to stay tied to is guilty of exactly the things you're so up in arms about the SNP doing. Look at what you've written here and apply it to the UK government. Austerity - Blame immigrants and people on benefits and the sick and disabled...Oil collapse - Blame the SNP...NHS - Blame immigrants and the sick and disabled and the elderly...Education - Blame immigrants and people on benefits. And try getting any unionist politician to give us a straight answer on Brexit. I'm sure that would get a good laugh too.

    At least when the SNP blame westminster they are blaming an entity that has actually had a hand in the things they are blaming them for. The UK government on the other hand scapegoats and bullies who they perceive to be the weakest members of society who have had nothing to do with the situation the country is in, in order to distract us from blaming their friends who are the real culprits. What a lovely government that is isn't it? And you want us to remain tied to that???

    How is Scotland a one party state? Do you realise how much power is actually devolved to Scotland? I think it's around 16%. If the SNP is the only party, who's controlling the other 84%?

    Also how on earth does the SNP control the narrative? The entire mainstream media is pro union, including the BBC. Don't you think they control the narrative?

    Can I ask you something? Are you really Scottish? And if so why do you not want good things happening to your own country? I mean you seem genuinely ********** off that we have free prescriptions, free university education, a better performing health service, no bedroom tax etc. What's that about?
    Oil boom - The SNP and now a fair amount of Scots have gotten it into their heads that Westminster has 'stolen' our oil wealth.. I've never quiet understood this - do you believe the rUK produces nothing itself and is propped up by Scottish Oil and gas?.. What about the other 260 years of the union before oil?.. Oil income is so overblown by the SNP - it contributes a little over 1% of UK GDP even in a good year, and has huge negative costs when it's not - as we are finding out now.. True, it would make up considerably more of Scottish GDP, but then that would need to be offset against the many things we would lose from separation..

    Lol - who, other than UKIP, blames Austerity or problems in the NHS on immigration? Who blames the state of education on the poor? What question do you expect them to answer on Brexit? - Do you mean the ridiculous demands made by the SNP which are designed only to increase their grievance and divide the union further? the SNP blame Westminster, but more specifically the Tories, because they believe in doing so it increases their support.. Nothing ideological, just pure grievance-mongering..

    Westminster is routinely blamed for the things the SNP have absolute control over - NHS, Education, etc.. Scotland already receives a significant higher grant per capita than England and still they moan.. They have had limited tax raising powers for 10 years and not once used them.. they have kept Council tax frozen for years even though councils were begging for them to let them raise more capital - why?.. If they didn't believe in Austerity they could do something about it couldn't they?.. We all know why they don't, because at heart they are as fiscally conservative as the Tories and recognise a vote loser when they see one.. so, it's not about the money, it's about pragmatism and Independence..

    I wasn't born in Scotland, but I have lived up here practically my whole life.. Schooled, employed, married and parented for thirty years - not that it makes a difference.. I want what is best for me and my family.. If I thought that Independence was going to improve our lives I would consider it but it wouldn't - I believe we would inevitably be poorer economically, and more divided and intolerant socially.. No, I'm not unhappy that we have some things better than down South, I'm glad that we do.. but that only proves the point that we do better by being part of the union - take Barnett from the equation, and the $114 oil price Salmond promised and we would have been staring down the barrel last year - some acceptance of this fact - and it is a fact - from those who advocate separation would be a refreshing start.. if you cannot tell the truth about that which is so apparent, then how do you expect people to believe anything else?
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    Sturgeon is still banging on about how Scotland will use the pound, post independence. Does this mean then that the SNP accepts their supposedly "independent" nation will be subject to the regulations on issuing banknotes set by the central bank of a foreign nation? Because it's the Bank of England that has authority over those Scottish banks that can issue those notes.
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    The Scottish voted knowing there was going to be a referendum into EU membership at some stage, the Scottish people still voted to stay as part of the U.K

    You can't just stamp your feet and keep demanding referendum after referendum until you get your way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerrard-2005 View Post
    Oil boom - The SNP and now a fair amount of Scots have gotten it into their heads that Westminster has 'stolen' our oil wealth.. I've never quiet understood this - do you believe the rUK produces nothing itself and is propped up by Scottish Oil and gas?.. What about the other 260 years of the union before oil?.. Oil income is so overblown by the SNP - it contributes a little over 1% of UK GDP even in a good year, and has huge negative costs when it's not - as we are finding out now.. True, it would make up considerably more of Scottish GDP, but then that would need to be offset against the many things we would lose from separation..

    Lol - who, other than UKIP, blames Austerity or problems in the NHS on immigration? Who blames the state of education on the poor? What question do you expect them to answer on Brexit? - Do you mean the ridiculous demands made by the SNP which are designed only to increase their grievance and divide the union further? the SNP blame Westminster, but more specifically the Tories, because they believe in doing so it increases their support.. Nothing ideological, just pure grievance-mongering..

    Westminster is routinely blamed for the things the SNP have absolute control over - NHS, Education, etc.. Scotland already receives a significant higher grant per capita than England and still they moan.. They have had limited tax raising powers for 10 years and not once used them.. they have kept Council tax frozen for years even though councils were begging for them to let them raise more capital - why?.. If they didn't believe in Austerity they could do something about it couldn't they?.. We all know why they don't, because at heart they are as fiscally conservative as the Tories and recognise a vote loser when they see one.. so, it's not about the money, it's about pragmatism and Independence..

    I wasn't born in Scotland, but I have lived up here practically my whole life.. Schooled, employed, married and parented for thirty years - not that it makes a difference.. I want what is best for me and my family.. If I thought that Independence was going to improve our lives I would consider it but it wouldn't - I believe we would inevitably be poorer economically, and more divided and intolerant socially.. No, I'm not unhappy that we have some things better than down South, I'm glad that we do.. but that only proves the point that we do better by being part of the union - take Barnett from the equation, and the $114 oil price Salmond promised and we would have been staring down the barrel last year - some acceptance of this fact - and it is a fact - from those who advocate separation would be a refreshing start.. if you cannot tell the truth about that which is so apparent, then how do you expect people to believe anything else?
    Why not devolve oil to Scotland then if it's so worthless and such a millstone?? Problem solved.

    UKIP may have started the narrative on immigration but you don't think the government has picked it up and ran with it? Come on open your eyes. And they are absolutely blaming the country's problems on the poor and benefit claimants and the disabled and are currently making their lives as miserable as possible as punishment for something that was absolutely nothing to do with them. I can't believe anyone can stand up for a government as callous and cold as this one.

    What questions do I expect them to answer on Brexit???? Are you taking the ****?? Brexit is one of the biggest decisions the country will ever face which could have repercussions which will affect every single one of us and you don't want your politicians to answer any questions we may have about it???? OMG as the kids say today. This is exactly what I mean when I talk about the double standards and hypocrisy of unionists. You expect the SNP to forensically answer every question in minute detail but when the government you want us to remain tied to can't answer the simplest of questions about one of the biggest events that will happen to the country it's all "oh don't worry about it, it'll be fine". Absolutely unbelievable.

    How can the SNP blame the tory party? I thought we were a one party state?

    Do you honestly believe we would be more divided and intolerant than the rUK? There hasn't been a rise in hate crime up here. Would you believe in independence if it wasn't for your belief that we would be worse off econmically? What about all the other benefits for the country?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundaypost View Post
    Why not devolve oil to Scotland then if it's so worthless and such a millstone?? Problem solved.

    UKIP may have started the narrative on immigration but you don't think the government has picked it up and ran with it? Come on open your eyes. And they are absolutely blaming the country's problems on the poor and benefit claimants and the disabled and are currently making their lives as miserable as possible as punishment for something that was absolutely nothing to do with them. I can't believe anyone can stand up for a government as callous and cold as this one.

    What questions do I expect them to answer on Brexit???? Are you taking the ****?? Brexit is one of the biggest decisions the country will ever face which could have repercussions which will affect every single one of us and you don't want your politicians to answer any questions we may have about it???? OMG as the kids say today. This is exactly what I mean when I talk about the double standards and hypocrisy of unionists. You expect the SNP to forensically answer every question in minute detail but when the government you want us to remain tied to can't answer the simplest of questions about one of the biggest events that will happen to the country it's all "oh don't worry about it, it'll be fine". Absolutely unbelievable.

    How can the SNP blame the tory party? I thought we were a one party state?

    Do you honestly believe we would be more divided and intolerant than the rUK? There hasn't been a rise in hate crime up here. Would you believe in independence if it wasn't for your belief that we would be worse off econmically? What about all the other benefits for the country?
    I didn't say it was a millstone I said it was overstated by supporters of Independence..

    There are no questions the government can answer about Brexit until the negotiations commence.. What do you expect them to say?.. They have done the sensible and pragmatic thing - don't give anything away to the other side.. It's Blair, Farron and co. who are trying to derail the Brexit process while Sturgeon is doing her best to make sure it fails - at the expense of everyone.. The last thing she wants is for the UK to get a good deal - which is pretty shameful when you think about it..

    Despite a 600 page dossier in 2014 at tax-payer expense, the SNP have not answered any of the big questions that would follow separation - not one.. They want to leave first, then wing it - Yep, great plan..

    There hasn't been a rise in hate crime down south - unless you consider Twitter posts a hate crime.. there has been an increase in reported hate crime, not a marked increase in hate crime convictions..

    I said in my last post - I am not against Independence, although obviously I would rather we remained in the union.. what I am fervently against is Independence at any cost which is what the Nationalist want - so yes, the economics are vital..

    By divided and intolerant I meant towards each other, on each side of the Indy debate - I didn't phrase that one well, sorry..

    Anyway, too upbeat with today's result and performance to be arguing the toss over something that will not happen in the next couple of years.. I'll agree to disagree, if you like..
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Star Line View Post
    And they already had a referendum based on that situation, and lost.



    It will never be enough for the SNP.
    But we're moving out of the EU. They didn't vote on which they preferred - EU or UK. Last ref on the EU, they voted for it. Material change as they would argue.

    They kept themselves an option because they smarter political operators than our lot. One move ahead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    But we're moving out of the EU. They didn't vote on which they preferred - EU or UK. Last ref on the EU, they voted for it. Material change as they would argue.

    They kept themselves an option because they smarter political operators than our lot. One move ahead.
    Ha Ha Ha.

    Forcing a vote they'll almost certainly lose.

    Really smart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrottonRed View Post
    Ha Ha Ha.

    Forcing a vote they'll almost certainly lose.

    Really smart.
    WE weren't smart enough though. They have an arguable case for a second vote, because we didn't shut the door on it.

    You're being narrow in your view. SNP won't hold any indy ref 2 till they know they can win it. I've heard they are taking continuous soundings of their public vote. They want firstly, the ability to hold it. Failing that they want to use the situation to negotiate more devolution powers. At the same time they'll try to manipulate a rejection from May to increase the obvious distaste there is in Scotland for government from London. That's why the SNP are in power after all.

    Trump proves how groups can be manipulated. Just needs the right circumstances and promises. Can you guarantee that brexit won't deliver the circumstances they need? If not, I wouldn't laugh.

    Our government has shown itself adept at being manipulated by small pressure groups.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    WE weren't smart enough though. They have an arguable case for a second vote, because we didn't shut the door on it.

    You're being narrow in your view. SNP won't hold any indy ref 2 till they know they can win it. I've heard they are taking continuous soundings of their public vote. They want firstly, the ability to hold it. Failing that they want to use the situation to negotiate more devolution powers. At the same time they'll try to manipulate a rejection from May to increase the obvious distaste there is in Scotland for government from London. That's why the SNP are in power after all.

    Trump proves how groups can be manipulated. Just needs the right circumstances and promises. Can you guarantee that brexit won't deliver the circumstances they need? If not, I wouldn't laugh.

    Our government has shown itself adept at being manipulated by small pressure groups.
    The SNP want additional devolution powers...and they'll get them.

    The ones that the torys wanted them to have.

    If Jimmy Krankie...err, Sturgeon, had waited for Brexit to get in trouble, then they'd get the Yes vote they really desire.

    But she isn't calling the shots, the same self proclaimed saviours of Scotland... who messed up the last vote, are.

    If they get a yes vote...good luck to them.

    But that will be the beginning of their problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    WE weren't smart enough though. They have an arguable case for a second vote, because we didn't shut the door on it.

    You're being narrow in your view. SNP won't hold any indy ref 2 till they know they can win it. I've heard they are taking continuous soundings of their public vote. They want firstly, the ability to hold it. Failing that they want to use the situation to negotiate more devolution powers. At the same time they'll try to manipulate a rejection from May to increase the obvious distaste there is in Scotland for government from London. That's why the SNP are in power after all.

    Trump proves how groups can be manipulated. Just needs the right circumstances and promises. Can you guarantee that brexit won't deliver the circumstances they need? If not, I wouldn't laugh.

    Our government has shown itself adept at being manipulated by small pressure groups.
    Although, in terms of brexit one could argue that after ukip winning the last European election and having 12.7% of the vote in the last general election Cameron couldn't ignore the European issue.
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  22. #172  
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    Less interested in independence this time round
    http://www.lse.co.uk/AllNews.asp?cod..._In_2014__Poll
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  23. #173  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddes View Post
    The Scottish voted knowing there was going to be a referendum into EU membership at some stage, the Scottish people still voted to stay as part of the U.K

    You can't just stamp your feet and keep demanding referendum after referendum until you get your way.
    That's not true at all.

    The vote on the EU was only brought up during the last general election. When Scotland voted last time the Remain campaign used the EU as their main defence of remaining.
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  24. #174  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    Less interested in independence this time round
    http://www.lse.co.uk/AllNews.asp?cod..._In_2014__Poll
    I think if Polls have proved anything in the last few years is that they're quite rubbish at times.
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  25. #175  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddes View Post
    The Scottish voted knowing there was going to be a referendum into EU membership at some stage, the Scottish people still voted to stay as part of the U.K

    You can't just stamp your feet and keep demanding referendum after referendum until you get your way.
    Is it the scottish people stamping their feet or political manoeuvring by their politicians on the basis SNP now rules the roost so they want to recount their chickens......?

    Anyway, scotland's so small couldn't they just do a show of hands.........? (Tongue firmly in cheek)
    People will believe what they want to believe
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  26. #176  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    But we're moving out of the EU. They didn't vote on which they preferred - EU or UK. Last ref on the EU, they voted for it. Material change as they would argue.
    The question they voted on concerned Scottish independence flat out, and they said no. It was never dependent on EU membership. Let's say they vote no again. What's the next excuse that the SNP will raise in order to push for a third referendum? If the Tories win a general election under May's leadership, will that be a material change too?

    They kept themselves an option because they smarter political operators than our lot. One move ahead
    They can't even answer a fundamental question of what currency they would have.
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  27. #177  
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Star Line View Post
    The question they voted on concerned Scottish independence flat out, and they said no. It was never dependent on EU membership. Let's say they vote no again. What's the next excuse that the SNP will raise in order to push for a third referendum? If the Tories win a general election under May's leadership, will that be a material change too?



    They can't even answer a fundamental question of what currency they would have.
    The issue is to prevent them from playing these games. We don't need them making a complex brexit situation more hazardous for us than it need be.

    We agreed to let them have a referendum without any kind of constraint on the next time they could have one. WE stood by watching them introduce the material change option in to their manifesto knowing full well, they would very likely be re-elected with a significant majority. They can do what they're doing because we did nothing to stop it.

    As for the currency question they answered the pound would be used.

    People need to take the SNP much more seriously. Just like the government should of taken the possibility of brexit more seriously.
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  28. #178  
    GrottonRed is online now LFC Forums Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luises-Finger View Post
    The issue is to prevent them from playing these games. We don't need them making a complex brexit situation more hazardous for us than it need be.

    We agreed to let them have a referendum without any kind of constraint on the next time they could have one. WE stood by watching them introduce the material change option in to their manifesto knowing full well, they would very likely be re-elected with a significant majority. They can do what they're doing because we did nothing to stop it.

    As for the currency question they answered the pound would be used.

    People need to take the SNP much more seriously. Just like the government should of taken the possibility of brexit more seriously.
    But there is no guarantee they'll have that...it isn't their decision.

    I'm not sure they understand that Independence means exactly that.

    There is no reason to take the SNP seriously...unless you live in Scotland, of course.
    Life President of TEPS...The Ellipsis Preservation Society.
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  29. #179  
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    It's embarrassing.

    What next ? The voice swivel chair ?
    Rock scissors stone ?
    My dad's bigger than your dad ..

    Brexit vote sticks . 55% said no.

    If on the 5th vote and it's 51/49 will the YES campaign still whore it's self out to the Braveheart mentallity up here ?

    Probably...
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  30. #180  
    shody1976 is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by redhoops View Post
    It's embarrassing.

    What next ? The voice swivel chair ?
    Rock scissors stone ?
    My dad's bigger than your dad ..

    Brexit vote sticks . 55% said no.

    If on the 5th vote and it's 51/49 will the YES campaign still whore it's self out to the Braveheart mentallity up here ?

    Probably...
    To be fair hoops, I don't really see a problem with a 2nd vote if that's what a majority of Scots want. Also, this could just be their way of squeezing more concessions from the Tories.
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