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Thread: Attack is the best form of defence! Actually, I don't think it is...

  1. #1 Default Attack is the best form of defence! Actually, I don't think it is... 
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    The proverb “Attack is the best form of defence” gets thrown around a lot when talking about football, as seemingly the better your attack and the more you attack, the less you have to defend. I’m saying that’s not true. Well, to some extent anyway.

    I would agree that the more time you spend attacking, is less time spent defending but at the same time, the more attacks you have that fail in the build up, the more you actually have to defend. When you control the ball, have options around you to keep the ball (see my other thread) and have people in areas of the pitch to defend the space should you lose the ball, then you will be more successful. Teams want to do everything at breakneck speed. That is the modern game I suppose. If you can do the basics well and be in the right areas of the pitch, once those things become muscle memory, then you can look to speed it up. Thats where I think a lot of teams go wrong.

    You dont win games by not scoring” I hear you say. Well, you don’t win them by conceding either. Look at Chelsea and Spurs this season. As it stands, 27 games, 20 goals conceded each. There’s no surprise they’re up there leading the way. Unless you’re ridiculously dangerous up top and can go gungho with world beaters like City and we were in 13/14, both scoring over 100 goals each then you have to be sure at the back to progress. Even with our insane strikeforce, we still couldn't get over the line.

    Too many teams get labels for sitting back and “parking the bus”. I for one don’t like to see that label or even that style for that matter. You don’t need to play backs to the wall to be defensively sound and cohesive. You just need to be on your toes, moving with the play and aware of who’s around you and what they’re doing. The ball isn’t dangerous. You need to be aware of where it is at all times obviously but the ball doesn’t put itself in the net. That’s the job of the players, or the beachball if you’re us but hey, we’ll leave that alone for now.

    Any defender who spends half the game staring at the ball then wondering how that guy got on the end of it behind him should be sacked. They leave themselves square on with a limited peripheral view and it irritates the hell outta me! The amount of times you see it is unreal. Someone arrives late in the box and runs on to the end of a cutback or a cross that drifts over the head of people who are already marking. What are the players near the one who makes the run doing?

    Defending 101:

    Get goal side.

    Go to the ball, not wait for it to come to you aka “Attack the ball” .

    ALWAYS track the runner because the one time you don’t, he’ll score and you look lazy and stupid.

    Don’t be stood still on your heels. Be on your toes ready to adjust position.



    Why then do we see professionals for teams in The Premier League make these fundamental mistakes week in week out? Is it lack of concentration? Poor coaching? Are they ignorant and think nothing will come of it? I’d love to know because at this point, I’m about fed up with seeing us concede stupidly soft goals because we just don’t defend right.
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  2. #2  
    Red-And-Proud is offline First team regular
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    I believe we are only a quarter of the team Klopp wants to build, without players who can execute Klopps philosphies correctly, by that I mean to the standard we all expect, so although I appluad your efforts of tactical anlysis, it is somewhat premature.

    Tactics is a big part of creating a team, but not all of it.
    Klopps beard twin
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  3. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red-And-Proud View Post
    I believe we are only a quarter of the team Klopp wants to build, without players who can execute Klopps philosphies correctly, by that I mean to the standard we all expect, so although I appluad your efforts of tactical anlysis, it is somewhat premature.

    Tactics is a big part of creating a team, but not all of it.
    Fair point. Shouldnt any professional player be able to do the basics well though? If they can't do the basics, how do they become pro's in the first place?
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  4. #4  
    Red-And-Proud is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergs uK View Post
    Fair point. Shouldnt any professional player be able to do the basics well though? If they can't do the basics, how do they become pro's in the first place?
    I think we have too many players in the squad that are simply not at the level we expect, this is what needs to be changed first? I mean if we were a bottom league club, the tactics have done wonders?

    I think it will be intresting to see how Klopps tactics work out this time next season, when the team members, hopefully, becomes closer to his own.
    Klopps beard twin
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  5. #5  
    Red-And-Proud is offline First team regular
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    Sorry I kow that was pretty much the same as the previous point I wanted to make.

    But the basics of making toast is grilling bread, but if you use rubbish bread people are going to say you cant make toast properly
    Klopps beard twin
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    As with most things in life, it's all about balance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red-And-Proud View Post
    But the basics of making toast is grilling bread, but if you use rubbish bread people are going to say you cant make toast properly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red-And-Proud View Post
    Sorry I kow that was pretty much the same as the previous point I wanted to make.

    But the basics of making toast is grilling bread, but if you use rubbish bread people are going to say you cant make toast properly
    Oh dear! Sorry mate but that must be the worst anology I've ever read. Who ever says you can't make toast properly?? And most people toast their toast in a ...well...,erm....toaster !Strange!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mymagaveurmaadigonthenose View Post
    Oh dear! Sorry mate but that must be the worst anology I've ever read. Who ever says you can't make toast properly?? And most people toast their toast in a ...well...,erm....toaster !Strange!
    A toaster applies the same technique as a grill. Toast is not a method of cooking, it's the new structure of the bread. So sticking it in a toaster means that you are 'toasting' the bread by grilling it between to very close quartered grill apparatus.
    Last edited by RedLeadinHead; 18-3-17 at 08:13.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedLeadinHead View Post
    A toaster applies the same technique as a grill. Toast is not a method of cooking, it's the new structure of the bread. So sticking it in a toaster means that you are 'toasting' the bread by grilling it between to very close quartered grill apparatus.
    Still doesn't excuse the poor analogy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red-And-Proud View Post
    I think we have too many players in the squad that are simply not at the level we expect, this is what needs to be changed first? I mean if we were a bottom league club, the tactics have done wonders?

    I think it will be intresting to see how Klopps tactics work out this time next season, when the team members, hopefully, becomes closer to his own.
    Expectation. Do we as fans expect too much? Could that be said for the fans of any team? What is a reasonable expectation for professional players ability at a top club?

    Managers don't necessarily get the length of tenure needed to make the team "their own" so to speak. My line of thinking is that any player brought in to a top club, should be at least of a level capable of doing the basics but maybe need guidance to adjust to the new managers additional requirements and strategies
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  12. #12  
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    Preaching to the choir.

    One day we'll sort out our defence.

    One day we'll win the league.

    Repeat.
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  13. #13  
    WirralRiddler is online now These posts brought to you by Dr Dre & Only Fools & Horses appreciation society
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    Attack is the best form of defence.
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  14. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by WirralRiddler View Post
    Attack is the best form of defence.
    Can you explain why?
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  15. #15  
    Red-And-Proud is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by mymagaveurmaadigonthenose View Post
    Oh dear! Sorry mate but that must be the worst anology I've ever read. Who ever says you can't make toast properly?? And most people toast their toast in a ...well...,erm....toaster !Strange!
    Nah it definitely works. You're still grilling Bread in a toaster, and making anything including toast, you still need the proper ingredients to make it properly.

    I stand by my slightly drunken analogy

    I was eating toast at the time of the analogy
    Klopps beard twin
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  16. #16  
    Red-And-Proud is offline First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by WirralRiddler View Post
    Attack is the best form of defence.
    Defence is the first line of attack
    Klopps beard twin
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    Imo every premier league standard player should have a monster shot on him, be strong in challenges, be able to use both feet with immense quality. That goes for forwards and defenders. There should be far more quality long range goals scored than there is.
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  18. #18  
    WirralRiddler is online now These posts brought to you by Dr Dre & Only Fools & Horses appreciation society
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergs uK View Post
    Can you explain why?
    I feel it doesn't even require an explanation. Its a pretty well accepted principle, not just in football but all kinds of sports, games and contests. Its always better to be on the offensive and to be proactive, than it is to be reactive and on the defensive.

    Thats not to say i think we're great defensively or there aren't massive improvements we could make in that department, far from it. I just think overall that as a general concept, attack IS the best form of defense. The more time you spend attacking, the less time the opposition has to attack you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WirralRiddler View Post
    I feel it doesn't even require an explanation. Its a pretty well accepted principle, not just in football but all kinds of sports, games and contests. Its always better to be on the offensive and to be proactive, than it is to be reactive and on the defensive.

    Thats not to say i think we're great defensively or there aren't massive improvements we could make in that department, far from it. I just think overall that as a general concept, attack IS the best form of defense. The more time you spend attacking, the less time the opposition has to attack you.
    I agree but at the same time, if the attacks you make break down and you're not in a position to recover, you're making work harder for yourself. Thats the issue I'm trying to make. If your attacking play isnt full throttle, builds up well and you're well protected against mistakes, you can't argue with the statement one bit. Maybe I should have tailored the statement to say that specifically our attack is not the best form of defence.
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  20. #20  
    KoppityKloppity is online now Academy prospect
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukadamainman View Post
    Imo every premier league standard player should have a monster shot on him, be strong in challenges, be able to use both feet with immense quality. That goes for forwards and defenders. There should be far more quality long range goals scored than there is.
    Always find this strange that pros cant use both feet with the same sort of quality, some, probably the majority are hopeless.

    It was a thing I could do when I was younger.
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  21. #21  
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    Fergs uK:
    Good post. Agree.

    Most successful teams in PL history are those who have had sound defences. Managers of those teams have prioritised defence first.
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  22. #22  
    Fowi is online now Hall of Fame Resident and Top Poster Who Shook The Boards
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    Good defending is the best form of defence. It's hardly rocket science.
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  23. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoppityKloppity View Post
    Always find this strange that pros cant use both feet with the same sort of quality, some, probably the majority are hopeless.

    It was a thing I could do when I was younger.
    Exactly, it should be the minimum requirement for them. Nat Clyne would rather try rabonnas than use his left. I played with Jack Macreth of Bury and Toto Nsiala at Shrewsbury when we were younger and they were both unbelievable with both feet so I can't understand how some of them get away with it.
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