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Thread: Am I doing the right thing?

  1. #31  
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    I'm overwhelmed with the responses and the sharing of personal experiences, there really are some great people on this forum. I can't thank you all enough, I wish I could do it individually or even respond to all the posts of support. I'd love to take you all out for a beer or two Welshy; I presume you're Welsh if you are ever in the Gower area I'd love the chance to buy you that pint mate.

    Small update. Overnight he's said if I can't or won't support him being his guarantor then he wants no further contact with me as he doesn't see me as his father as no father would treat his son like this. I know its a shock tactic to try and make me buckle but I'm staying strong in my decision. I'll let the situation calm down for a week or so and attempt some sort of contact then.

    Thanks once again.

    YNWA
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  2. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbiefella View Post
    I'm overwhelmed with the responses and the sharing of personal experiences, there really are some great people on this forum. I can't thank you all enough, I wish I could do it individually or even respond to all the posts of support. I'd love to take you all out for a beer or two Welshy; I presume you're Welsh if you are ever in the Gower area I'd love the chance to buy you that pint mate.

    Small update. Overnight he's said if I can't or won't support him being his guarantor then he wants no further contact with me as he doesn't see me as his father as no father would treat his son like this. I know its a shock tactic to try and make me buckle but I'm staying strong in my decision. I'll let the situation calm down for a week or so and attempt some sort of contact then.

    Thanks once again.

    YNWA
    Yea It definatley does sound like a last resort by him that threat, I think you are right to see what happens, eventually he will realise that he cannot have everything his way.
    He will soon change his mind when he has nowhere to go and no one to turn to, that might sound like a sad thing to say, but if that is what it takes for him to come to the right conclusion, then so be it.

    These things are never straightforward, especially when drugs are involved.
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbiefella View Post
    I'm overwhelmed with the responses and the sharing of personal experiences, there really are some great people on this forum. I can't thank you all enough, I wish I could do it individually or even respond to all the posts of support. I'd love to take you all out for a beer or two Welshy; I presume you're Welsh if you are ever in the Gower area I'd love the chance to buy you that pint mate.

    Small update. Overnight he's said if I can't or won't support him being his guarantor then he wants no further contact with me as he doesn't see me as his father as no father would treat his son like this. I know its a shock tactic to try and make me buckle but I'm staying strong in my decision. I'll let the situation calm down for a week or so and attempt some sort of contact then.

    Thanks once again.

    YNWA
    It is a two way street that perhaps?

    It is also somewhat self pitying as there are no doubt parents who are positively evil towards their children (physical mental and sexual abuse).

    Let him know you love him, let him know that you are proud of him, what more can you do?
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  4. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by aylesbyred View Post
    Hello mate.

    I'll share my experience with you and perhaps that will help you arrive at a decision.

    5 years ago my eldest daughter left home at 16 to live with some tattooed fella 3 years her elder; she'd alwasy been streetwise growing up, hardly at home, drank a bit and the vice she got into was weed which we hated but couldn't stop her doing.

    She hated our rules and was always aguing and fighting sometimes physically yet she was so loving at other times, so she left and my last words were i'd give it 6 months.

    ON the second to last day of the 6th month she wanted to come home, the short story is we acted as guarantor - the day she left she was happy and excited and the day i picked her up she was drug ridden, dirty, effectively ferrel, i kicked out a load of people of this beautiful flat that was now a ****hole with doors off and carpets ruined and so on and so on. her grandmother gave her 2k inheritence 2 months in and she blew the lot on drugs escalating from weed to coke and tabs and ket i think it's called.

    I cried all the way home she could hardly talk let alone get her stuff together like I asked, I feel your pain a million percent in fact it brings it all back.

    So we got no deposit back and we had to travel to tidy the place up and then pay a **** load more for damage, despite all the promises and begging for us to help her get the place she let us down. Never again.

    I learnt something though and it was painful, I can give advice, I can share my experiences, I can try and steer them away from bad decisions, I learned my role in life is to just be there when it all falls apart.

    Heartbreaking mate and feel for you, I can tell you how I think it will go but I can't tell you wether or not yhour decision is right.

    And weird - we moved from Grimsby to the Wirral for the same reason !

    Good luck, Ayles.

    Ps if you ever want to dump **** in here use this thread >>> http://forums.liverpoolfc.com/thread...cussion-thread
    This is essentially the parents role and completely agree with Ayles' sentiments here. You have to just be there for them. Offer but be prepared to be rejected. Its one big learning curve for them as well as you. We have one of ours in Australia with 3 of her friends in the journey of a lifetime for 3.5months in Oz, phillipines Vietnam, cambodia and thailand. She's travelling through floods in SE Queensland at the mo. Are we worried? yes of course. our other child is working in Manchester..both graduated last summer. You dont stop worrying no matter what.

    All the best.
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  5. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbiefella View Post
    I'm overwhelmed with the responses and the sharing of personal experiences, there really are some great people on this forum. I can't thank you all enough, I wish I could do it individually or even respond to all the posts of support. I'd love to take you all out for a beer or two Welshy; I presume you're Welsh if you are ever in the Gower area I'd love the chance to buy you that pint mate.

    Small update. Overnight he's said if I can't or won't support him being his guarantor then he wants no further contact with me as he doesn't see me as his father as no father would treat his son like this. I know its a shock tactic to try and make me buckle but I'm staying strong in my decision. I'll let the situation calm down for a week or so and attempt some sort of contact then.

    Thanks once again.

    YNWA
    You are almost certainly doing the right thing but it is difficult. Not a great believer in so called "tough love" but i think thats what its called. Would he meet up with you to talk or is his line "be my guarantor or im not speaking to you"?
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  6. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMelwoodMole View Post
    I'm sorry to hear what your going through Herbie mate, I can't imagine how difficult or stressful all this is for you. I have a 20 month old daughter myself and everyday all I think about is how good of a father I can be to her. As for your son you need to get him all the help he needs and get him out of the dark place he got himself to before something serious happens. You need to remain firm and strong through all this.

    Good luck fella and keep us updated.
    Thats the thing, from reading the post it looks like the lad is determined not to be helped; I've no experience of drugs but I've worked with alcoholics and they only stop when they want to stop or when they are totally defeated, when I used to do phone service I used to get partners ringing desperate for advice on how to get them to stop - ultimately you can't; you can show them leaflets and get them appointments and drag them places but the minute they're on their own they're off sadly unless they want to stop. It's a cruel existence for everyone involved including the close family.

    Just a thought Herbie - are you getting any suppport yourself mate ?

    I'd look into this mate is it helps to talk to other people who are in the position as you as soemtimes you can feel like you are the only ones going through what you are going through >>> www.al-anonuk.org.uk

    adding Narcotics >>> http://www.nar-anon.org/
    Last edited by aylesbyred; 31-3-17 at 14:03.
    dont look back in anger.
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    Did a search and found this article about setting boundaries in this situation, Herbiefella .. interestingly, boundaries for yourself, not for your son. I just thought that what the writer was saying made sense. I hope there is something you can take from it:

    http://drugfree.org/parent-blog/the-...es-for-myself/

    YNWA.
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  8. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbiefella View Post
    I'm overwhelmed with the responses and the sharing of personal experiences, there really are some great people on this forum. I can't thank you all enough, I wish I could do it individually or even respond to all the posts of support. I'd love to take you all out for a beer or two Welshy; I presume you're Welsh if you are ever in the Gower area I'd love the chance to buy you that pint mate.

    Small update. Overnight he's said if I can't or won't support him being his guarantor then he wants no further contact with me as he doesn't see me as his father as no father would treat his son like this. I know its a shock tactic to try and make me buckle but I'm staying strong in my decision. I'll let the situation calm down for a week or so and attempt some sort of contact then.

    Thanks once again.

    YNWA
    No son would treat his father like that either. Don't half feel for you mate, my eldest at one point was a destructive horrible little ******* and it's a head and heart wrecker; we just sort of told ourselves it was the drugs talking, eventually the real daughter came back which was wonderful and i truly hope you get the same result eventually

    YNWA
    dont look back in anger.
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  9. #39  
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    You're a really decent human being Herbiefella.

    Stay strong mate.

    YNWA
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    The only thing you can do is wait if he ever seeks out help to get out of his drug related problems.
    And not offer him anything else until that time comes
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  11. #41  
    Liverdinner is online now Posts With His Faace
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbiefella View Post
    I'm overwhelmed with the responses and the sharing of personal experiences, there really are some great people on this forum. I can't thank you all enough, I wish I could do it individually or even respond to all the posts of support. I'd love to take you all out for a beer or two Welshy; I presume you're Welsh if you are ever in the Gower area I'd love the chance to buy you that pint mate.

    Small update. Overnight he's said if I can't or won't support him being his guarantor then he wants no further contact with me as he doesn't see me as his father as no father would treat his son like this. I know its a shock tactic to try and make me buckle but I'm staying strong in my decision. I'll let the situation calm down for a week or so and attempt some sort of contact then.

    Thanks once again.

    YNWA
    Make sure to reiterate you're doing it out of love and you'll always be there for him (though not as a doormat) and his best interests.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liverdinner View Post
    I haven't had anywhere near the ride you have, but my ex girlfriend was similar in some ways; she would lie and manipulate. It was mostly silly and pointless things, and she got very little benefit out of it.

    In the end I figured she couldn't even help it. She has something wrong with her and I realised that it wasn't my fault and I could not have stopped it. I too tried to help her so many times and lost so many nights sleep over it. In the end I had to cut her loose, but it wasn't a clean break at all. I know exactly what you mean about it being hard to be logical. When you care, you get so invested and you keep hoping and hoping they will change or the breakthrough will come. It still hurts a bit but I am getting to understand that all rests on her and always did.

    Not so say his son is beyond redemption or anything; it's a very different issue in terms of mental state.
    Difficult situation Liver and I'd say in terms of the ride, its all very much in the context to the person, so it sounds for you an incredibly difficult situation considering it was a relationship you were in and what you have to invest into a relationship and the aftermath.

    The part in bold strikes a real chord with me too, that's exactly how I saw it with my brother. I think perhaps its what they politely call a 'personality disorder,' which is really to me a polite diagnosis. It seems medication or support doesn't help and the individuals concerned are almost entirely programmed to manipulate and lie as a default, making it almost impossible to help especially when the help they want is a demand and not necessarily the best thing for them (in fact its rarely the best thing for them).

    I hope you are slowly getting over it though and it sounds like you have reached a conclusion to help you move on which is essential as these things can chew us up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herbiefella View Post
    I'm overwhelmed with the responses and the sharing of personal experiences, there really are some great people on this forum. I can't thank you all enough, I wish I could do it individually or even respond to all the posts of support. I'd love to take you all out for a beer or two Welshy; I presume you're Welsh if you are ever in the Gower area I'd love the chance to buy you that pint mate.

    Small update. Overnight he's said if I can't or won't support him being his guarantor then he wants no further contact with me as he doesn't see me as his father as no father would treat his son like this. I know its a shock tactic to try and make me buckle but I'm staying strong in my decision. I'll let the situation calm down for a week or so and attempt some sort of contact then.

    Thanks once again.

    YNWA
    Yes I'm all Welsh Herbie, hear me sing.....actually you'd really rather not I suspect

    I'm Cardiff based so the Gower is a lovely spot to visit so may well take you up on that pint one day

    Sounds like overnight he tested that boundary, which is all a difficult part of the process, so I hope he sees and understands what you are doing now will benefit him in the long term.

    Keep us posted if not impersonal to do so and hope you have a more peaceful time and a bit of respite over the coming days.

    YNWA
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  13. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbiefella View Post
    I'm overwhelmed with the responses and the sharing of personal experiences, there really are some great people on this forum. I can't thank you all enough, I wish I could do it individually or even respond to all the posts of support. I'd love to take you all out for a beer or two Welshy; I presume you're Welsh if you are ever in the Gower area I'd love the chance to buy you that pint mate.

    Small update. Overnight he's said if I can't or won't support him being his guarantor then he wants no further contact with me as he doesn't see me as his father as no father would treat his son like this. I know its a shock tactic to try and make me buckle but I'm staying strong in my decision. I'll let the situation calm down for a week or so and attempt some sort of contact then.

    Thanks once again.

    YNWA
    Nothing like a spot of emotional blackmail when you don't get your own way.
    Drugs are a huge problem down here [I'm assuming your boy still lives in the place you took your user name from] and I know more than one parent going through something very similar to you at the moment.Disagreements among families over how to deal with the problem can cause as much trouble as the problem itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kas74 View Post
    Nothing like a spot of emotional blackmail when you don't get your own way.
    Drugs are a huge problem down here [I'm assuming your boy still lives in the place you took your user name from] and I know more than one parent going through something very similar to you at the moment.Disagreements among families over how to deal with the problem can cause as much trouble as the problem itself.
    I used to work in a family law firm in your neck of the woods and some terrible problems with drug abuse, a level I didn't quite appreciate existed for real or was so prolific, just case after case, was relentless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    I used to work in a family law firm in your neck of the woods and some terrible problems with drug abuse, a level I didn't quite appreciate existed for real or was so prolific, just case after case, was relentless.
    It's rife;people talk about it being a nice place to raise kids and in so far as you're not very likely to get mugged I suppose it is but you'd be hard pressed to find too many streets that don't have a resident dealer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kas74 View Post
    It's rife;people talk about it being a nice place to raise kids and in so far as you're not very likely to get mugged I suppose it is but you'd be hard pressed to find too many streets that don't have a resident dealer.
    Aye and it's the hard drugs problem there I found which was severe often inherited, entire families over two gens trapped in that cycle, to the point in some cases babies are born addicts and with very little chance in life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Aye and it's the hard drugs problem there I found which was severe often inherited, entire families over two gens trapped in that cycle, to the point in some cases babies are born addicts and with very little chance in life.
    It's the reason half the forty year olds down here look the results of a failed mummification experiment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kas74 View Post
    It's the reason half the forty year olds down here look the results of a failed mummification experiment.
    I shouldn't laugh but you have to try and see a funny side where possible even in the bleakest of things, and that description was just too good kal
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    I shouldn't laugh but you have to try and see a funny side where possible even in the bleakest of things, and that description was just too good kal
    Our daughter's boyfriend moved in with us last year;he's not from the area and it's been quite funny how shocked he is by a lot of the stuff he's seen since he arrived.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aylesbyred View Post
    Thats the thing, from reading the post it looks like the lad is determined not to be helped; I've no experience of drugs but I've worked with alcoholics and they only stop when they want to stop or when they are totally defeated, when I used to do phone service I used to get partners ringing desperate for advice on how to get them to stop - ultimately you can't; you can show them leaflets and get them appointments and drag them places but the minute they're on their own they're off sadly unless they want to stop. It's a cruel existence for everyone involved including the close family.

    Just a thought Herbie - are you getting any suppport yourself mate ?

    I'd look into this mate is it helps to talk to other people who are in the position as you as sometimes you can feel like you are the only ones going through what you are going through >>> www.al-anonuk.org.uk
    Just picking up one element of your opening post there is also a narcotics variant of al anon. I believe they are called nar anon.
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    aylesbyred is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul143 View Post
    Just picking up one element of your opening post there is also a narcotics variant of al anon. I believe they are called nar anon.
    cheers mate i was trying to think of it - thanks.
    dont look back in anger.
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    A very difficult situation, but yes, I think you're doing the right thing. You are letting him know you're there for him and offering him a home.

    I haven't been through anything as difficult as this, but as the parent of 4 kids (just the youngest left at home now), we've been through some rough times and even though they're mostly grown up now, there's still always something to worry about with at least one of them.

    Some incredible posts on this thread.
    Love and respect to you all.
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  23. #53  
    Liverdinner is online now Posts With His Faace
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    Quote Originally Posted by welshypool View Post
    Difficult situation Liver and I'd say in terms of the ride, its all very much in the context to the person, so it sounds for you an incredibly difficult situation considering it was a relationship you were in and what you have to invest into a relationship and the aftermath.

    The part in bold strikes a real chord with me too, that's exactly how I saw it with my brother. I think perhaps its what they politely call a 'personality disorder,' which is really to me a polite diagnosis. It seems medication or support doesn't help and the individuals concerned are almost entirely programmed to manipulate and lie as a default, making it almost impossible to help especially when the help they want is a demand and not necessarily the best thing for them (in fact its rarely the best thing for them).

    I hope you are slowly getting over it though and it sounds like you have reached a conclusion to help you move on which is essential as these things can chew us up.



    Yes I'm all Welsh Herbie, hear me sing.....actually you'd really rather not I suspect

    I'm Cardiff based so the Gower is a lovely spot to visit so may well take you up on that pint one day

    Sounds like overnight he tested that boundary, which is all a difficult part of the process, so I hope he sees and understands what you are doing now will benefit him in the long term.

    Keep us posted if not impersonal to do so and hope you have a more peaceful time and a bit of respite over the coming days.

    YNWA
    For me and by the sounds of it everyone in her past, the problem is that she didn't want help. She wouldn't even accept that she had an issue and if you questioned her lies she would get angry or try and brush them off., But she told some pure bonkers lies and you would have to be nuts to say what she did. Because she wouldn't acknowledge it and didn't want help, it was simply impossible to do anything. But yes, like you say, it was simply her default mode to lie and manipulate, and i am not even sure she knew why. Normal people like us haven't a hope of understanding, and I think that's half the pain.

    Part of me wants to go back and ask her all again and try and uncover the person within, but I know that there is no point. Maybe I wouldn't even like the person within.
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    Its every parents worst nightmare - thats the simple truth of it.
    You are doing 1000percent the right and the best thing for your son by refusing to aid him in being a guarantor.
    For if you did do that, in reality you would only be aiding him to continue his lifestyle as it is.
    Sadly, as he is on this path, you must wait for him to hit the bottom before you can really start to help him. Then he should want to go to rehab and thats where you and your ex-wife come it and give him the support hell so desperately need. I'm sorry to say this but without this flat - if he suddenly decides to take your offer and go live with you but not avail of rehab, he will take what he can from your home to feed his habit.
    If he is now looking for a flat himself then obviously he is running out of floors to sleep on and his 'friends' maybe getting a bit tired of him. Thats great news - let him realise that. Its a step closer to the bottom which in turn is a step closer towards some sort of realisation and plea for real help.
    You'll have tough times ahead Herbiefella, I feel for you and I wish you well. And you bet' this is the best place to post the Thread!
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    aylesbyred is online now Boot Room insider
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    How are things Herbiefella ?
    dont look back in anger.
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    Hi Ayles thanks for asking. Sorry for the delayed reply, I've had a really busy week, crazy start to it, then a hectic week in work ending with a couple of worrying incidents on my night shifts (I work on an oil refinery so no 9-5 for me ). My lad actually ended up in A & E at the weekend, last Sunday morning to be precise. One of his 'mates' had called my ex wife to say he wasn't very well, she got him into hospital to get him checked over etc. They did eventually allow him to go home with her, I hoped that he would stay a couple of days at least, he stayed until the evening and then thanked her and left, off to see his 'mates' apparently. I have spoken to him a couple of times this week though and a little progress has been made. He has agreed to come and stay over the easter period for a few days, fingers crossed he keeps to this. No promises made by him or demands from me, it'll just be good to see him and speak to him properly.

    Kas, they live close to the place I took my name from, the fishing docks area about 2-3 miles away. He's sofa/floor surfing on the mount estate. The problem is rife and I've no doubt other families in the area are going through the same or similar, my heart goes out to them and I wish them all the luck possible to solve the issues this problem brings.

    YNWA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbiefella View Post
    Hi Ayles thanks for asking. Sorry for the delayed reply, I've had a really busy week, crazy start to it, then a hectic week in work ending with a couple of worrying incidents on my night shifts (I work on an oil refinery so no 9-5 for me ). My lad actually ended up in A & E at the weekend, last Sunday morning to be precise. One of his 'mates' had called my ex wife to say he wasn't very well, she got him into hospital to get him checked over etc. They did eventually allow him to go home with her, I hoped that he would stay a couple of days at least, he stayed until the evening and then thanked her and left, off to see his 'mates' apparently. I have spoken to him a couple of times this week though and a little progress has been made. He has agreed to come and stay over the easter period for a few days, fingers crossed he keeps to this. No promises made by him or demands from me, it'll just be good to see him and speak to him properly.

    Kas, they live close to the place I took my name from, the fishing docks area about 2-3 miles away. He's sofa/floor surfing on the mount estate. The problem is rife and I've no doubt other families in the area are going through the same or similar, my heart goes out to them and I wish them all the luck possible to solve the issues this problem brings.

    YNWA
    Hey mate,

    Sorry too read about your lad! I was just wondering what kind of compulsory treatment you have in England?

    I'm a social worker in Sweden, and from what you've been telling about your son we'd be able too give him compulsory treatment in Sweden!

    I know it's a last resort, but maybe something too consider if he can't see sense?

    Hope everything we'll get sorted out with your son!

    YNWA!
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    aylesbyred is online now Boot Room insider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbiefella View Post
    Hi Ayles thanks for asking. Sorry for the delayed reply, I've had a really busy week, crazy start to it, then a hectic week in work ending with a couple of worrying incidents on my night shifts (I work on an oil refinery so no 9-5 for me ). My lad actually ended up in A & E at the weekend, last Sunday morning to be precise. One of his 'mates' had called my ex wife to say he wasn't very well, she got him into hospital to get him checked over etc. They did eventually allow him to go home with her, I hoped that he would stay a couple of days at least, he stayed until the evening and then thanked her and left, off to see his 'mates' apparently. I have spoken to him a couple of times this week though and a little progress has been made. He has agreed to come and stay over the easter period for a few days, fingers crossed he keeps to this. No promises made by him or demands from me, it'll just be good to see him and speak to him properly.

    Kas, they live close to the place I took my name from, the fishing docks area about 2-3 miles away. He's sofa/floor surfing on the mount estate. The problem is rife and I've no doubt other families in the area are going through the same or similar, my heart goes out to them and I wish them all the luck possible to solve the issues this problem brings.

    YNWA
    It's probably good and hopefully calmer now you've set your stall out - I admire that as I made several really bad mistakes with my teenage girl at 14 when I should have put my foot down and didn't in fear of possible consequences.

    Good luck
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  29. #59  
    kas74 is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbiefella View Post
    Hi Ayles thanks for asking. Sorry for the delayed reply, I've had a really busy week, crazy start to it, then a hectic week in work ending with a couple of worrying incidents on my night shifts (I work on an oil refinery so no 9-5 for me ). My lad actually ended up in A & E at the weekend, last Sunday morning to be precise. One of his 'mates' had called my ex wife to say he wasn't very well, she got him into hospital to get him checked over etc. They did eventually allow him to go home with her, I hoped that he would stay a couple of days at least, he stayed until the evening and then thanked her and left, off to see his 'mates' apparently. I have spoken to him a couple of times this week though and a little progress has been made. He has agreed to come and stay over the easter period for a few days, fingers crossed he keeps to this. No promises made by him or demands from me, it'll just be good to see him and speak to him properly.

    Kas, they live close to the place I took my name from, the fishing docks area about 2-3 miles away. He's sofa/floor surfing on the mount estate. The problem is rife and I've no doubt other families in the area are going through the same or similar, my heart goes out to them and I wish them all the luck possible to solve the issues this problem brings.

    YNWA
    I'll keep my fingers crossed that his time with you goes well for all concerned.
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  30. #60  
    Red-And-Proud is online now First team regular
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    Hi Herbie hope all is well.

    Was thinking about this situation the other day and how I might deal with it.

    I know it might not be a ground breaking suggestion but I was thinking you have done all you can, the problem is your sons head is haggled with all the drugs, most of the time his reality isn't what it should be..Even when he isn't high his mind will be on how he can be, its a big part of his life and only he can change that.

    I would write him a letter, explaining your thoughts and how you will be there for him when he is ready, trouble is most of the time he won't hear you, but I guess there is times in every users lives when they contemplate what they are doing- ask him to keep the letter and read it every time he feels lost, it is easy to delete a text or forget a talk but if he can at least keep the letter it will be something he can hold on to.

    If you think he might rip it up make photocopies and send him one every week if you have to, I mean it might not work but the written word can be a powerful thing, you said he was a smart lad, this can't , won't be forever.
    Klopps beard twin
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