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Thread: South Africa - State and Treasury finally captured.

  1. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    Ayn Rand and the followers of her 'cult of self' have a lot to answer for.
    They all fit Rands capitalist hero template to a T. except they obviously lack her white Aryan prerequisites by being black. Zuma is a traditional political shyster and the Guptas are slick opportunistic capitalists making money out of rigging and controlling the political machinery of S.Africa. Yet they are both faithfully following the template that has been the political status quo in S.Africa for many generations previously. The key upfront difference being that it was previously UK and US billionaire corporations that were raking in the easy money but they've since taken a political back seat to pull the strings from further afield.

    Its worth noting that Ayn Rand wrote those right wing capitalist fantasy stories but the link below points to the people like Buchanan and his billionaire sponsor Koch who have literally brought the despotic madness she fantasised about into the current political mainstream.
    Worth a read here. https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardyards View Post
    They all fit Rands capitalist hero template to a T. except they obviously lack her white Aryan prerequisites by being black. Zuma is a traditional political shyster and the Guptas are slick opportunistic capitalists making money out of rigging and controlling the political machinery of S.Africa. Yet they are both faithfully following the template that has been the political status quo in S.Africa for many generations previously. The key upfront difference being that it was previously UK and US billionaire corporations that were raking in the easy money but they've since taken a political back seat to pull the strings from further afield.

    Its worth noting that Ayn Rand wrote those right wing capitalist fantasy stories but the link below points to the people like Buchanan and his billionaire sponsor Koch who have literally brought the despotic madness she fantasised about into the current political mainstream.
    Worth a read here. https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other
    Good piece that.

    Thanks.
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    Zuma survives no-confidence vote

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-40869269
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    Zuma survives no-confidence vote

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-40869269
    Barely, although enough to keep him and his pigtrough eating sycophantic party members adorned with $$$ for the foreseeable future.

    The ANC are a morally bankrupt disgusting shell of a political party, a far cry from the liberation movement who played an enormous part in ridding SA of apartheid .. and their members are dumber then pig****. Just another day on the backward continent that is Africa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    Barely, although enough to keep him and his pigtrough eating sycophantic party members adorned with $$$ for the foreseeable future.

    The ANC are a morally bankrupt disgusting shell of a political party, a far cry from the liberation movement who played an enormous part in ridding SA of apartheid .. and their members are dumber then pig****. Just another day on the backward continent that is Africa.
    Bell Pottinger seem to have got the bullet Grenny?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    Bell Pottinger seem to have got the bullet Grenny?
    Yep, rhoscoch, it seems the company is now ruined and has in fact been put up for sale.

    Having said that, the scum dogs - true to form - at Bell Pottinger, who were largely responsible for creating the campaign and inciting racial hatred and tension in South Africa, have already flown the coop and resigned from the company. Principal amongst them is Victoria Geoghegan, ***** supreme, who I truly hopes gets what she has coming to her, one way or another. May she rot in hell and before she actually gets there, may she rot on Earth as well. I suspect there are those in South Africa who will bear a grudge against this woman, rightfully so, and will hound her wherever she goes. Hope springs eternal. Just glad the governing body for PR agencies in the UK expelled this disgusting organisation from their ranks, which has led to the company now floundering - so well done there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    Yep, rhoscoch, it seems the company is now ruined and has in fact been put up for sale.

    Having said that, the scum dogs - true to form - at Bell Pottinger, who were largely responsible for creating the campaign and inciting racial hatred and tension in South Africa, have already flown the coop and resigned from the company. Principal amongst them is Victoria Geoghegan, ***** supreme, who I truly hopes gets what she has coming to her, one way or another. May she rot in hell and before she actually gets there, may she rot on Earth as well. I suspect there are those in South Africa who will bear a grudge against this woman, rightfully so, and will hound her wherever she goes. Hope springs eternal. Just glad the governing body for PR agencies in the UK expelled this disgusting organisation from their ranks, which has led to the company now floundering - so well done there.
    One battle at a time mate.

    Chalk one up to the good guys?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    One battle at a time mate.

    Chalk one up to the good guys?
    Yep, definitely .. what the majority of right thinking Saffers are hoping for here is full disclosure from Bell Pottinger .. i.e. WHO it was that briefed them and engaged them to do what they did, with evidence of said wrongdoing, as that could provide all the evidence needed to impeach Zuma and send the Gupta's running for their lives. Hopefully some good comes from this sorry saga.
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    Guardian article on the scummy Bell Pottinger organisation:

    Much seemed at stake in January 2016 when a delegation headed by the veteran PR supremo Lord Bell jetted to South Africa to pitch for business from the Guptas, the Indian-born family at the centre of the nation’s biggest political scandal since the end of apartheid.

    Bell Pottinger, the public relations agency that Margaret Thatcher’s favourite PR adviser co-founded with Piers Pottinger in 1987, stood to gain lucrative fees of £100,000 a month.

    Bell needed a solid business win as collateral in a personal battle raging with Bell Pottinger’s chief executive, James Henderson, who was trying to force out his chairman, arguing that he was not bringing in enough work to justify his £1m-a-year personal salary.

    Twenty-one months later, Bell – who denies that he ever led the campaign – has left to found the geopolitical PR agency Sans Frontières Associates, Henderson has resigned and their deal with the Guptas has left the company with the kind of reputational crisis it is supposed to help clients avoid.

    This week, Bell Pottinger has been criticised by an independent law firm review by law firm Herbert Smith Freehills and expelled from the Public Relations and Communications Association (PRCA).

    The company, which is 37% owned by Henderson and his fiancée, Heather Kerzner, the ex-wife of South African casinos multimillionaire Sol Kerzner, is essentially up for sale. Whether it has any value is debatable: the agency’s second largest shareholder, Chime Communications, handed its 27% stake back to the company, unable to sell it but unwilling to retain any interest in the business.

    The “economic emancipation” campaign that Bell Pottinger waged for the Guptas’ company Oakbay Investments succeeded only in stirring racial tensions in the nation.

    An investigation by the PR publication CorpComms Magazine revealed what happened after that fateful January 2016 meeting.

    The two sides had been put in contact by Christopher Geoghegan, an experienced former defence industry executive whose 33-year-old daughter Victoria worked for Bell Pottinger in corporate communications.

    Representing Bell Pottinger were Bell, who once advised the former South African president FW De Klerk, Victoria Geoghegan and Jonathan Lehrle, a partner in Bell Pottinger’s geopolitical division who was brought up in South Africa.

    On the other side of the negotiations was Jacob Zuma’s son Duduzane Zuma, a friend of brothers Ajay, Atul and Rajesh Gupta, whose business interests span media, mining and computing equipment.

    Atul Gupta alone ranked as the seventh richest person in South Africa in 2016 with an estimated wealth of $773m (£600m).

    The Zuma family’s friendship with the Guptas had already spawned the “Guptagate” scandal in 2013 when the brothers were allowed to make a VIP landing at a South African airbase on their way to a wedding as a personal gift from the president.

    The president, two of whose children have worked for Gupta companies, had denied the allegation in parliament and an in-house investigation petered out. Still under attack for having too much influence over South African politics, the Guptas wanted Bell Pottinger’s help.

    According to leaked documents, Duduzane said the campaign should be “along the lines of economic emancipation of whatever” with a “narrative that grabs the attention of the grassroots population who must identify with it, connect with it and feel united by it”.

    Bell Pottinger was to foment greater debate about inequalities due to “economic apartheid” in South Africa – a mandate that increasingly became seen as diverting attention from attacks on the Guptas.

    An £100,000-a-month Oakbay contract was signed in January 2016 and extended three months later. Henderson is said to have inserted an “embarrassment clause” allowing Bell Pottinger to exit and claim compensation if its controversial clients damaged its own reputation.

    In April 2016, the close links between the Guptas and Zuma began coming under closer scrutiny, with the phrase “state capture” alleging that the brothers were exercising undue influence on the mechanisms of state.

    The South African investment bank Investec resigned its account with Bell Pottinger over the company’s work for the Guptas.

    Then Bell told Henderson that Johann Rupert, the South African chairman of the Swiss luxury goods group Richemont which owns brands including Cartier and Chloé, had privately expressed concerns about the work Bell Pottinger was doing for the Guptas.

    Bell left Bell Pottinger in August 2016, with Lehrle and Darren Murphy, another Bell Pottinger partner, later joining him at Sans Frontières.

    As word leaked about Bell’s impending departure, more details about a seamy side to the “economic emancipation” campaign started to emerge.

    Bell Pottinger was accused of stirring up anger about “white monopoly capital” in South Africa. Material including a video interview with Ajay Gupta, which had never been publicly circulated, was leaked onto South African media.

    Bell Pottinger was accused of inciting racial tension, and operating fake Twitter accounts to mount racially driven campaigns.

    The original Guptagate scandal, meanwhile, continued to build traction. In November, 2016, a damning 355-page report by South Africa’s former public protector Thuli Madonsela was released despite attempts by Zuma and two South African ministers to suppress it.

    It claimed that the Guptas had offered one politician the job of finance minister, attempting to sweeten the arrangements with $44m of cash when he refused.

    The report also stated that the Guptas had tried to offer another politician the job of minister of public enterprise, in charge of state-owned companies.

    In addition, it said Bell Pottinger had attempted to stir up racial anger in South Africa, mounting a “hateful and divisive campaign to divide South Africa along the lines of race”.

    Bell Pottinger correspondence also began to appear in the South African media after a leak of 100,000 emails known as “GuptaLeaks”.

    One appeared to show that Bell Pottinger had suggested that Oakbay doctor its Wikipedia page to show itself in a better light.

    In November 2016, Rupert stunned the annual meeting of a Richemont subsidiary by announcing that Bell Pottinger was behind a campaign that was making personal attacks on him and was the creator of the incendiary phrase “white monopoly capital” – something that insiders at the PR company deny.

    Richemont and the South African Tourist Board resigned their Bell Pottinger accounts but the PR firm did not quit the Oakbay contract until April this year.

    Henderson maintained that allegations that the firm had worked to stoke racial tensions in South Africa were “completely untrue”.

    However, another report issued in July brought yet more allegations and a South African opposition politician referred Bell Pottinger to the PRCA and the Chartered Institute of Public Relations.

    Henderson responded by firing Victoria Geoghegan and suspending Nick Lambert, another Bell Pottinger partner, and two junior team members for “inappropriate and offensive” activity.

    He issued an “unequivocal apology” for Bell Pottinger’s conduct on the Oakbay account but maintains he was unaware of what his firm was doing for the Guptas, insisting that he took no direct part in thecontract, never met or communicated with the Guptas and delegated all responsibility for the contract to his account team.

    Victoria Geoghegan, who was promoted to managing director of Bell Pottinger’s financial and corporate division in December 2016, became the public face of the firm’s Oakbay account after Bell was finally forced out of Bell Pottinger in August 2016.

    South African headline writers have not held back. One declared: “From angel to pure evil: how UK PR Victoria Geoghegan got her claws into South Africa.” Another asked “how evil mastermind Victoria Geoghegan sleeps at night”.

    Now eight months pregnant, she is understood to be preparing a case for unfair dismissal.

    This week’s events will not end this saga. There is the possibility of a South African government investigation and even potential criminal charges.

    Bell will continue to be paid by Bell Pottinger until December. But the firm he created, and which was once one of the best known names in the City, is in tatters – and the damage it has wreaked on the fragile politics of South Africa may take years to undo.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...firm?CMP=fb_gu
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    Bell Pottinger have been in the news here lately. They used to also run smear campaign for our former president which caused a whole lot of hatred between some parts of the South and the North. Sadly it's resurrected the Biafra movement which seeks to break off from Nigeria even though when they tried it in the 60s we had a very ****** civil war. The wounds still haven't healed today but the calls for war and secession are getting louder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeemI View Post
    Bell Pottinger have been in the news here lately. They used to also run smear campaign for our former president which caused a whole lot of hatred between some parts of the South and the North. Sadly it's resurrected the Biafra movement which seeks to break off from Nigeria even though when they tried it in the 60s we had a very ****** civil war. The wounds still haven't healed today but the calls for war and secession are getting louder.
    That is terrible, Keemi, they 'were' a disgusting organization, chasing the $$$ no matter who they hurt whilst doing so. I say 'were' because it is hard to see them coming back from this. Well done to the Democratic Alliance - the official opposition in South Africa - for effectively 'taking them out'. It was clearly long overdue.

    Do a google search on these scum and you will see other countries where they have employed the same disgusting 'techniques'. It is a pretty long list.
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    Karma can be a real *****:

    Bell Pottinger will be put into administration tomorrow - good news:


    Bell Pottinger Middle East bids to split from parent firm as administration nears
    UAE-based arm seeks management buyout in bid to separate from scandal-hit PR agency, which could enter administration as early as Monday

    The Middle East arm of Bell Pottinger is in talks to separate from the scandal-hit PR agency, as its parent prepares to go into administration as soon as Monday.

    Bell Pottinger Middle East (BPME), a separate legal entity headquartered out of the United Arab Emirates, said that it had rejected the opportunity to work on the Oakbay account in South Africa that is at the centre of the scandal that has brought down its London-based parent company.

    The Middle East arm of Bell Pottinger, which is run by managing director Archie Berens, is putting together a management buyout of the agency.

    “As an independent and financially secure business in charge of its own destiny it will now be up to us to consider a whole range of options,” he said.

    BPME, which has represented high-profile clients including precious metals refiner Kaloti and Abu Dhabi Airports, said it has received interest from a “wide range of potential investors”.

    The agency said it is in talks with accountancy firm BDO, which has so far failed to find a fire-sale buyer of the parent company, to “formalise a separation from its current owner Bell Pottinger Private Limited”.

    It has also emerged that Waitrose, which prides itself on its ethical credentials, has belatedly admitted that it has joined a growing list of clients to fire Bell Pottinger as it faces closure.

    “We gave notice to Bell Pottinger nearly three weeks ago,” said a supermarket spokeswoman. “We are in the process of appointing a replacement for them.”

    The agency had worked as parliamentary advisers on food and farming matters for Waitrose.

    Bell Pottinger created a secret PR and social media campaign based on “economic apartheid” designed to stir up racial tension in South Africa on behalf of Oakbay, which is owned by the controversial and wealthy Gupta family, who have strong ties with President Jacob Zumba, and members of his family.

    “BPME has been at pains to point out that at no point were its UAE directors ever involved in the winning or servicing of the Oakbay account in South Africa which has led to the sad demise of the UK business,” the company said in a statement. “Indeed, BPME’s UAE directors actually rejected the opportunity to work on the account. This reinforces BPME’s ability and intention to continue to trade under its own banner as a separate entity.”

    On Friday, the Asian arm of Bell Pottinger announced it was splitting from the parent company. The firm’s Singapore-based operation, chaired by Bell Pottinger co-founder Piers Pottinger, said it intends to rebrand as Klareco Communications.

    Pottinger said using the name Klareco, which means “clarity” in Esperanto, was designed to distance the PR agency from the parent company and “reflect the true values of us here”.

    With no buyer emerging for the parent company, BDO is expected to put the agency into administration as soon as Monday or Tuesday.

    This will leave senior staff free to move on with clients who still want to work with them. “It’s a race to pick up clients and start again,” said one partner at the agency, which employs around 250 people.

    Last Monday, the UK’s public relations trade body, PRCA, expelled Bell Pottinger for at least five years – an unprecedented move for a City PR firm of its size.

    The Public Relations and Communications Association said that Bell Pottinger had “brought the PR and communications industry into disrepute”.

    Last week, the Guardian revealed that the agency’s second-biggest shareholder Chime, which is owned by US firm Providence and Sir Martin Sorrell’s WPP, had handed back its 27% stake for free to escape the scandal.

    Bell Pottinger’s chief executive, James Henderson, the largest shareholder, resigned last weekend. His wedding to fiancee, Heather Kerzner, who owns a 15% stake in the firm, has reportedly been postponed.
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    The corrupt ANC / Gupta Alliance 'House of cards' is starting to collapse. Corporate heads are starting to roll - Bell Pottinger are no more, and now KPMG and McKinsey heavily implicated in this scandal. However, these are just the rats who did business with these severely compromised politicians / 'businessmen'. It is Zuma himself, his compromised ANC politicians and MP's, Zuma's family members, and the Gupta family who really need to be taken out. They are the collective head of the snake, and said head needs to be cut off before any real change will happen.

    https://www.ft.com/content/7d054b14-...4-932067fbf946

    KPMG and McKinsey dragged further into South Africa scandal

    KPMG faces client revolt, while McKinsey accused of fraud

    KPMG and McKinsey have been hit further by the fallout of the growing political scandal involving South Africa’s Gupta family that has already caused the collapse of British PR firm Bell Pottinger.

    KPMG on Tuesday lost two further audit contracts in South Africa and faced widespread reviews as clients sought to distance themselves from reputational damage from their links to the firm.

    McKinsey faced allegations of fraud and collusion in corruption from South Africa’s main opposition party over the management consultant’s work with a company linked to the Guptas, the family accused of corrupting state contracts through ties to President Jacob Zuma.

    Both firms have scrambled to limit the damage caused by their links to the Gupta family, which is at the centre of South Africa’s worst political scandal since the apartheid era.

    On Tuesday, the Democratic Alliance made allegations against McKinsey over its work with Trillian Capital, a company owned by an associate of the Guptas that has been accused of exerting influence on the award of large contracts by Eskom, the state power utility.

    A spokesperson for McKinsey denied paying or authorising payments to Trillian and “was never asked to approve any payments made by Eskom” to the company. “We will co-operate fully with any official inquiries and investigations,” the spokesperson said.

    I expect [Investec] to sever ties with KPMG. KPMG is compromised and cannot expect to carry on business as usual as an auditor

    KPMG has admitted its South African office had missed red flags in auditing the family’s companies, which has led to the exit of eight executives. The Guptas and Mr Zuma have denied the allegations.

    John Veihmeyer, chairman of KPMG International, on Tuesday apologised “for what went wrong in KPMG South Africa”.

    He added: “KPMG International undertook an investigation, with the help of independent legal advisers, which found a number of failings in a report prepared for the South African Revenue Service and in the decisions made, over time, to continue working for the Guptas. KPMG South Africa made serious mistakes and errors of judgment in these engagements.”

    Sasfin, the South African financial services company that has been audited by KPMG for 18 years, said on Tuesday that it would search for a new auditor “in view of the well-publicised concerns recently raised with regard to KPMG”.

    Hulisani, a South African investment company, also confirmed that it had decided to drop KPMG, its auditor of two years, due to the reputational risks of remaining with the firm.

    “There were serious allegations [involving KPMG] that should have been dealt with more vigorously. KPMG was slow off the starting block,” Marubini Raphulu, chief executive of Hulisani, said.

    KPMG has already lost South Africa-listed asset manager Sygnia as a client, while Barclays Africa Group, Nedbank and real estate investment trust Hyprop are reviewing their relationship with the accounting firm.

    Investec, the South African investment bank and asset manager, said its audit committee will meet on Wednesday to discuss whether to sever its 20-year relationship with KPMG.

    One Investec private banking client urged the bank to drop the auditor. “I expect [Investec] to sever ties with KPMG. KPMG is compromised and cannot expect to carry on business as usual as an auditor.”

    Other large South African companies audited by KPMG, including Old Mutual, Growthpoint Properties, Sibanye Stillwater and the City Lodge Hotel Group, said they are engaging with the accounting firm on the issues.

    KPMG’s South African business audited companies linked to the Guptas for 15 years but ended its relationship in March 2016 as the political scandal over the family’s links to Mr Zuma deepened.

    Mr Veihmeyer said the firm would “further strengthen the monitoring of which clients we choose to work with and how we handle potentially sensitive client engagements”.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    The corrupt ANC / Gupta Alliance 'House of cards' is starting to collapse. Corporate heads are starting to roll - Bell Pottinger are no more, and now KPMG and McKinsey heavily implicated in this scandal. However, these are just the rats who did business with these severely compromised politicians / 'businessmen'. It is Zuma himself, his compromised ANC politicians and MP's, Zuma's family members, and the Gupta family who really need to be taken out. They are the collective head of the snake, and said head needs to be cut off before any real change will happen.

    https://www.ft.com/content/7d054b14-...4-932067fbf946

    KPMG and McKinsey dragged further into South Africa scandal

    KPMG faces client revolt, while McKinsey accused of fraud

    KPMG and McKinsey have been hit further by the fallout of the growing political scandal involving South Africa’s Gupta family that has already caused the collapse of British PR firm Bell Pottinger.

    KPMG on Tuesday lost two further audit contracts in South Africa and faced widespread reviews as clients sought to distance themselves from reputational damage from their links to the firm.

    McKinsey faced allegations of fraud and collusion in corruption from South Africa’s main opposition party over the management consultant’s work with a company linked to the Guptas, the family accused of corrupting state contracts through ties to President Jacob Zuma.

    Both firms have scrambled to limit the damage caused by their links to the Gupta family, which is at the centre of South Africa’s worst political scandal since the apartheid era.

    On Tuesday, the Democratic Alliance made allegations against McKinsey over its work with Trillian Capital, a company owned by an associate of the Guptas that has been accused of exerting influence on the award of large contracts by Eskom, the state power utility.

    A spokesperson for McKinsey denied paying or authorising payments to Trillian and “was never asked to approve any payments made by Eskom” to the company. “We will co-operate fully with any official inquiries and investigations,” the spokesperson said.

    I expect [Investec] to sever ties with KPMG. KPMG is compromised and cannot expect to carry on business as usual as an auditor

    KPMG has admitted its South African office had missed red flags in auditing the family’s companies, which has led to the exit of eight executives. The Guptas and Mr Zuma have denied the allegations.

    John Veihmeyer, chairman of KPMG International, on Tuesday apologised “for what went wrong in KPMG South Africa”.

    He added: “KPMG International undertook an investigation, with the help of independent legal advisers, which found a number of failings in a report prepared for the South African Revenue Service and in the decisions made, over time, to continue working for the Guptas. KPMG South Africa made serious mistakes and errors of judgment in these engagements.”

    Sasfin, the South African financial services company that has been audited by KPMG for 18 years, said on Tuesday that it would search for a new auditor “in view of the well-publicised concerns recently raised with regard to KPMG”.

    Hulisani, a South African investment company, also confirmed that it had decided to drop KPMG, its auditor of two years, due to the reputational risks of remaining with the firm.

    “There were serious allegations [involving KPMG] that should have been dealt with more vigorously. KPMG was slow off the starting block,” Marubini Raphulu, chief executive of Hulisani, said.

    KPMG has already lost South Africa-listed asset manager Sygnia as a client, while Barclays Africa Group, Nedbank and real estate investment trust Hyprop are reviewing their relationship with the accounting firm.

    Investec, the South African investment bank and asset manager, said its audit committee will meet on Wednesday to discuss whether to sever its 20-year relationship with KPMG.

    One Investec private banking client urged the bank to drop the auditor. “I expect [Investec] to sever ties with KPMG. KPMG is compromised and cannot expect to carry on business as usual as an auditor.”

    Other large South African companies audited by KPMG, including Old Mutual, Growthpoint Properties, Sibanye Stillwater and the City Lodge Hotel Group, said they are engaging with the accounting firm on the issues.

    KPMG’s South African business audited companies linked to the Guptas for 15 years but ended its relationship in March 2016 as the political scandal over the family’s links to Mr Zuma deepened.

    Mr Veihmeyer said the firm would “further strengthen the monitoring of which clients we choose to work with and how we handle potentially sensitive client engagements”.
    KPMG hey...fingers crossed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    KPMG hey...fingers crossed.
    You don't like them, rhoscoch?
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    You don't like them, rhoscoch?
    A huge multi national services corporation with seemingly questionable ethics.

    Oversight is no doubt difficult but what of the over riding culture?

    No doubt they bring real value to all the economies in which they 'earn' their (circa £25BN is it) turnover?
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    Not sure if anyone has been following the events playing themselves out in South Africa currently. The chronically corrupt and ethically compromised 'President' of the country, Jacob Zuma, has fired the Minister of Finance and his deputy, and replaced them with his lackeys in order to get his hands on the national Treasury. he has also fired numerous other ministers in a cabinet reshuffle, all aimed at giving him ultimate power and, effectively, creating a dictatorship.

    For those who do not know, this shell of a man (Zuma) has been bought by an Indian immigrant family, the Gupta's, who have made billions in corrupt government contracts and other 'mechanisms' .. this family effectively now control South Africa through last evenings South African equivalent to the Nazi's 'Night of the long knives'. I am not in any way being sensationalist here .. just search through South African news this morning for any and all press articles on the subject.

    Our country is now in deep trouble. The ruling ANC party is completely unrecognisable from the liberation movement / party that brought about the required change in South Africa, and ended the unjust and despicable Apartheid system. Parliament is now made up virtually in it's entirety by Zuma lackeys and a culture of nepotism and corruption. Part and parcel of this turn of events is a trillion Rand nuclear deal with Russia which Zuma and his acolytes are attempting to force through Parliament .. not to provide energy for our future in this country, but rather to enable the Gupta's - who have coincidentally bought many Uranium mines and other related industrial businesses - to further plunder State resources. Telling that in a country that has access to healthier renewable energy sources, this lot have decided that nuclear energy is the way to go.

    I am deeply concerned for the future of all South Africans, and am now seriously considering my options with respect to emigration. I cannot, in good conscience, live in a country which - seemingly, unless drastic action like a tax revolt to bring the Treasury and Zuma's plans to its knees - is destined to be another Zimbabwe, or worse. At least I have the potential to investigate opportunities abroad .. the vast majority of my brothers and sisters in the country - of all races, creeds, religions, political persuasions - do not enjoy this option at all .. hell, I am not even sure I do.

    I ask you all to hold South Africa in your thoughts as we deal with this crisis of epic proportion. Cry the beloved country.
    Failed, racist state. Never bothered. A Country-state founded on a shameful history.
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  18. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    Failed, racist state. Never bothered. A Country-state founded on a shameful history.
    What is the failed racist state? South Africa today, run by the ANC - or the previous apartheid regime?

    Also, when you say 'never bothered', am I to believe that you are saying you could not care less about any of this, because of South Africa's shameful history?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhoscoch View Post
    A huge multi national services corporation with seemingly questionable ethics.

    Oversight is no doubt difficult but what of the over riding culture?

    No doubt they bring real value to all the economies in which they 'earn' their (circa £25BN is it) turnover?

    It would seem you are right about that, rhoscoch.

    Here is what the previous Minister of Finance (who, together with others, lost their jobs at SARS due to the flawed - some may say fake - report generated by KPMG) Pravin Gordhan, had to say about KPMG when he was interviewed on a radio show this morning:

    KPMG were willing partners in state capture – Gordhan

    Former Finance minister and current member of Parliament Pravin Gordhan has come out guns blazing at KPMG since it withdrew its highly disputed report on South African Revenue Service into the intelligence unit and admitted to mistakes made when working for Gupta-linked companies.

    Pravin Gordhan says that the leaders of KPMG South Africa need to understand that they have played a major role as willing partners in state capture.

    “This is not just an isolated, technical matter. That you’ve got to see this particular set of misdemeanors on their part, both in terms of the companies that they audited and the institution like Sars as well, maybe they didn’t realise the magnitude of what they were doing, but for a fee, they were willing partners in the state capture project.”

    He says that the firm now has to prove that it’s gone through a fundamental change in culture.

    “I think the corporate sector, taking the lead from BLSA and the kind of measures they’ve taken, needs to send out a very strong message, that ‘we really can’t have auditors like yourselves unless you can demonstrate to us that you’ve undergone a fundamental change in culture.”
    KPMG had its membership of Business Leadership South Africa (BLSA) suspended, pending the outcome of an independent investigation.

    https://socialsa.co.za/kpmg-were-wil...pture-gordhan/
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    What is the failed racist state? South Africa today, run by the ANC - or the previous apartheid regime?

    Also, when you say 'never bothered', am I to believe that you are saying you could not care less about any of this, because of South Africa's shameful history?
    Look it is not a personal attack, but the world has more serious problems. The only reason you feel South Africa is important is that it had an arrogant white population.

    Show me South Africa's contribution to the World, a great scientist or a great concept or idea. It is a failed state that should never have existed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    Look it is not a personal attack, but the world has more serious problems. The only reason you feel South Africa is important is that it had an arrogant white population.

    Show me South Africa's contribution to the World, a great scientist or a great concept or idea. It is a failed state that should never have existed.
    Wow. Not one for jumping to conclusions, are you? "The only reason you feel South Africa is important is that it had an arrogant white population". Really? And you know this about me how exactly?

    Ever heard of Nelson Mandela? I would hope you have but from your post above it would seem you are somewhat ignorant. Google it.

    Ever heard of Christiaan Barnard? Clearly not. Google it.

    Ever heard of Elon Musk? Wonder what his connection is to South Africa? Google it.

    Ever heard of a CT scan? Google it's connection to South Africa.

    I could give you literally dozens of other contributions SA have made to the worldwide community, scientific or otherwise, but it is clear to me you know better already, so I would rather not waste my time.

    One other thing - your statement "The world has more serious problems" - what a priggish, arrogant and foolish thing to say. What gives you the right to make that particular determination? You think that the ANC stealing this country blind rather then taking that money and actually uplifting the 40 million black people in this country who were completely marginalised by apartheid is not a serious problem?

    Sorry to say, you have come across as an absolute moron for the view you have presented in this post. Last debate I will have with you on this subject .. or any other one for that matter. "Look, it is not a personal attack". Wow, just wow.
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    It would seem that the UK government are getting involved with this whole Zuma / Gupta saga, as fingers are now being pointed at British financial institutions in relation to money laundering .. somewhat close to home for us Liverpool supporters, as our primary sponsors, Standard Chartered are alleged to have been one of the banks involved in this:


    https://www.biznews.com/global-citiz...t-zuma-guptas/


    By Thulasiwe Sithole

    UK media outlets are today awash with news of South Africa’s state capture scandal with global banking giants HSBC and Standard Chartered Bank taking centre stage in connection with alleged Zupta money laundering.

    Labour peer Lord Peter Hain, who grew up in South Africa, has been the catalyst in getting UK authorities to probe financial dealings by the Gupta and Zuma families and other South Africans who have aided and abetted the corrupt.

    He sent letters to the UK Chancellor, Philip Hammond, and President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, outlining how corruption and cronyism have plunged South Africa into economic crisis. As a result of his inquiries, Hammond has instructed the relevant UK financial authorities to launch investigations.

    Hain said that on a recent visit to Johannesburg it became clear to him that the Zuma-Gupta network “is not localised to South Africa – indeed it has been enabled by a transnational money-laundering network” spanning Europe, the Middle East and Asia.

    European headquartered financial institutions such as Standard Chartered and HSBC have facilitated financial crimes, he said.

    He also names global consultancies KPMG, McKinsey and SAP as “implicated in Gupta criminal activity”.

    Hain has called for EU and UK law enforcement agencies to investigate and also for European institutions to “review” their exposure to individuals and companies on a list he has compiled.

    Lord Hain’s letter to Chancellor Philip Hammond says a whistle-blower had indicated the banks “may have inadvertently have been conduits for the corrupt proceeds of money”. The peer raised the issue in the House of Lords this morning.

    Responding to Hain’s letter, the chancellor said he had referred his concerns to the SFO, FCA and NCA and had also asked his officials to discuss the matter with the UK High Commission in South Africa.

    “The UK government takes allegations of corruption and money laundering extremely seriously and is committed to preventing the proceeds of corruption from entering the UK financial system,” he said.

    In a statement, the Treasury said: “The government takes such allegations seriously and that’s why the letter has been passed on to appropriate authorities. It’s now for the authorities to determine what action to take.”

    A spokesperson for the FCA said it was “already in contact with both banks named and will consider carefully further responses received”.

    Speaking to the Guardian, Hain added: “As a former anti-apartheid activist, whose parents were jailed and exiled from South Africa, I feel deeply pained by the betrayal of values of the freedom struggle that is occurring under the political leadership and its business cronies in South Africa today.”

    He said he was not accusing British banks of complicity in money-laundering but wanted them to help recoup any funds that have left the country by illicit means.

    He pointed to court filings by South African finance minister Pravin Gordhan about R6.8bn (£380m) in transactions involving the Guptas that were reported to South African anti-money laundering regulators.

    “What I’ve asked the chancellor to do, and he’s agreed, is to have this investigated so that the necessary authorities can be notified. I hope that any stolen money will be identified and returned,” he is quoted as saying.

    Hain urged UK authorities “to track that stolen money down and make sure that British financial institutions help return it to South African taxpayers”.

    The Guardian has contacted HSBC, Standard Chartered, the Guptas and President Jacob Zuma for comment.

    The BBC’s correspondent in Johannesburg, Andrew Harding, said Lord Hain’s letter was “a new twist in a giant corruption scandal that is shaking the South African state, and damaging the reputations of a number of global companies”.

    In South Africa, the scandal has already ruined British public relations company Bell Pottinger and damaged auditors KPMG, which removed its top executive team in the country.

    The Guardian newspaper has reported that Chancellor Hammond has asked UK enforcement agencies to look into whether British banking groups HSBC and Standard Chartered are linked to South Africa’s corruption inquiry into alleged ties between the wealthy Gupta family and President Jacob Zuma.

    The affair has already claimed the scalp of UK public relations firm Bell Pottinger, which counted Gupta holding company Oakbay Investments as a client and saw its business collapse when it was struck off by the UK PR industry body for its work with Oakbay. The South African bosses of accounting firm KPMG, which audited Gupta family businesses, also quit amid fallout from the affair
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    So Zuma still in power

    The ruling body ANC has asked its own president to step down for the sake of SA

    and nothing.....

    Cyril Ramaphosa replaced him as leader of the ANC, back in December but currently stands on the sidelines.....
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    shody1976 is online now First team regular
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    Zuma is a corrupt incompetent who is denigrating Mandela’s legacy. The man is a useless pygmy who should be removed by force if necessary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    What is the failed racist state? South Africa today, run by the ANC - or the previous apartheid regime?

    Also, when you say 'never bothered', am I to believe that you are saying you could not care less about any of this, because of South Africa's shameful history?
    both are failed, but for different reasons in my limited view from a few thousand miles north.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysteron View Post
    So Zuma still in power

    The ruling body ANC has asked its own president to step down for the sake of SA

    and nothing.....

    Cyril Ramaphosa replaced him as leader of the ANC, back in December but currently stands on the sidelines.....
    The problem goes a lot deeper then merely Zuma .. the rot runs deep in the ANC and, when Zuma eventually falls - and he will, soon - he is going to take a whole lot of people down with him. Ramaphosa himself is hardly as pure as the driven snow. All of this is precisely why the situation is unfolding the way it is. Zuma is as corrupt as they come .. but he has a system of patronage in place below him which has ensured that the State has been unable to do anything about his plundering, and therein lies the big problem. He is refusing to budge and the reason the ANC simply do not get rid of him is because he has so much dirt on so many of them that they are frightened for their own skins, and what he will reveal when he is finally deposed. THAT is why this is such a drawn out debacle .. however, if the ANC do not act quickly now, and decisively, the opposition parties will be lodging yet another vote of no confidence in Parliament - difference this time is that it will be carried and, once THAT happens, the whole deck of cards is going to collapse.

    Zuma and those who have aided and abetted him in his scheme of grand larceny need to be charged with treason, and the law must take it's course if and when that happens. Happily, it is all unravelling at a pace now and, if the scummy ANC do not have the appetite to do the right thing here, then the opposition parties and civil society organisations will do it for them.

    Zuma is operating on borrowed time now. Cowardly, corrupt shell of a human being.
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    shody1976 is online now First team regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    The problem goes a lot deeper then merely Zuma .. the rot runs deep in the ANC and, when Zuma eventually falls - and he will, soon - he is going to take a whole lot of people down with him. Ramaphosa himself is hardly as pure as the driven snow. All of this is precisely why the situation is unfolding the way it is. Zuma is as corrupt as they come .. but he has a system of patronage in place below him which has ensured that the State has been unable to do anything about his plundering, and therein lies the big problem. He is refusing to budge and the reason the ANC simply do not get rid of him is because he has so much dirt on so many of them that they are frightened for their own skins, and what he will reveal when he is finally deposed. THAT is why this is such a drawn out debacle .. however, if the ANC do not act quickly now, and decisively, the opposition parties will be lodging yet another vote of no confidence in Parliament - difference this time is that it will be carried and, once THAT happens, the whole deck of cards is going to collapse.

    Zuma and those who have aided and abetted him in his scheme of grand larceny need to be charged with treason, and the law must take it's course if and when that happens. Happily, it is all unravelling at a pace now and, if the scummy ANC do not have the appetite to do the right thing here, then the opposition parties and civil society organisations will do it for them.

    Zuma is operating on borrowed time now. Cowardly, corrupt shell of a human being.
    It’s such a shame that a few greedy individuals have denigrated Mandelas legacy, purely for money and power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelYNWA View Post
    both are failed, but for different reasons in my limited view from a few thousand miles north.
    Agreed .. only problem is that - as things stand - only one of those failed states has fallen.

    Which is worse: An overtly racist State apparatus that demeaned the rights of people and gave massive advantage to a small, but powerful, racial grouping .. or a covert State apparatus that pretended to be doing right by those previously disadvantaged people but, in truth, were stealing them blind and perpetuating the cycle of poverty, lack of opportunity and created a system whereby only a small, selected minority were allowed to benefit .. at the expense of those they were supposed to be uplifting and protecting?

    There is absolutely NO question about this fact: South Africa, as a country, today is far worse off then in the apartheid days. The economy is in tatters (we have been awarded junk status by most of the ratings agencies), the national education system and healthcare system have collapsed, we have the highest unemployment rate ever recorded in South Africa (and up there with the highest in the world), crime is rampant and the cost of living for most South Africans is exorbitant. This government has put in place legal measures - like BEE (Black Economic Empowerment) and Affirmative Action - which were supposed to uplift the masses but has had exactly the opposite effect whilst at the same time ensuring that skillsets vital to the country have been lost. One thing this ANC government HAS achieved is that they have created a climate of serious racial and tribal discord, and they have done that with intent and with malice - so bad is it, that the words 'civil war' are being mentioned.

    What transpires in the next days and weeks will determine the degree to which South Africa lifts itself out of the mire .. and whether economic transformation and a transfer of skill sets - from those who were privileged in the old South Africa to those who were previously disadvantaged and prejudiced against - is even a possibility or whether things are too far gone now.

    Interesting, but increasingly concerning, times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shody1976 View Post
    It’s such a shame that a few greedy individuals have denigrated Mandelas legacy, purely for money and power.

    It is terrible, shod's, it truly is. They have failed their people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by grenny158 View Post
    It is terrible, shod's, it truly is. They have failed their people.
    The one positive is that there is a popular uprising against the government (I won’t sully the name of Mandela by referring to them as the ANC as this isn’t the ANC that he founded) that will bring them down. South Africa will rise again and hopefully, the people both black and white will move forward as one.
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